history of multi track location recording

[Jürgen Schöpf[_2_]]

Dear colleagues,

I am searching for early examples of multi track location recording
machinery, projects, and people who have used them - especially in
social sciences
research. I'd guess movie sound was the earliest application of multi
track outside the studios of music production, but with what machinery
and when? I know Ampex delivered their first 8-track to les Paul in
1957,
but that was definitely not a mobile device :-)

I also know some french musicologists have used overdub techniques
with two
stereo machines in field recording for some time (Simha Arom and his
group of researchers), possibly in the 1980s.

But perhaps the consumer 4-track compact cassette (home studio)
machines
like the famous Tascam PortaStudio of 1979 was the earliest used in
field recrording? ...

I would be grateful for any hints

Best Regards
:-J

--
Jürgen Schöpf, Dr. phil.
Österreichische Akademie der Wissenschaften / Austrian Academy of
Sciences
Phonogrammarchiv
Liebiggasse 5
A-1010 Wien / Vienna
Österreich / Austria
Fon: +43-1-4277-29611
Fax: +43-1-4277-9296
http://www.phonogrammarchiv.at/

[Adrian Tuddenham[_2_]]

Jürgen Schöpf > wrote:

> Dear colleagues,
>
> I am searching for early examples of multi track location recording
> machinery, projects, and people who have used them - especially in
> social sciences
> research. I'd guess movie sound was the earliest application of multi
> track outside the studios of music production, but with what machinery
> and when? I know Ampex delivered their first 8-track to les Paul in
> 1957,
> but that was definitely not a mobile device :-)

Sterephonic tape recorders were available on an experimental basis in
the early 1950s, the early ones used staggered heads. Ferrograph
certainly made one and I cannot believe that nobody tried powering it
from a vibrator pack and taking it out into the field - however, I don't
have any references to confirm that.


> I also know some french musicologists have used overdub techniques
> with two
> stereo machines in field recording for some time (Simha Arom and his
> group of researchers), possibly in the 1980s.

Stereophonic broadcasts, which included location recordings of a train
and troops marking past, were made in France in 1950. Presumably they
used location recordings for these. The description of the process
includes a photograph of a tape head block, which looks like a Studer,
with staggered recording heads.

Ref: "Improved Stereophony" E.Aisberg. - Wireless World 1950 P327-330
September.


There is a great deal of information on multi-track recordings in
Chapter 9 of Peter Copeland's manual:

http://www.bl.uk/reshelp/findhelprestype/sound/anaudio/analoguesoundrest
oration.pdf


--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

[William Sommerwerck]

"Adrian Tuddenham" > wrote in message
valid.invalid...
> Jürgen Schöpf > wrote:
>
> > Dear colleagues,
> >
> > I am searching for early examples of multi track location recording
> > machinery, projects, and people who have used them - especially in
> > social sciences
> > research. I'd guess movie sound was the earliest application of multi
> > track outside the studios of music production, but with what machinery
> > and when? I know Ampex delivered their first 8-track to les Paul in
> > 1957,
> > but that was definitely not a mobile device :-)
>
> Sterephonic tape recorders were available on an experimental basis in
> the early 1950s, the early ones used staggered heads. Ferrograph
> certainly made one and I cannot believe that nobody tried powering it
> from a vibrator pack and taking it out into the field - however, I don't
> have any references to confirm that.
>
>
> > I also know some french musicologists have used overdub techniques
> > with two
> > stereo machines in field recording for some time (Simha Arom and his
> > group of researchers), possibly in the 1980s.
>
> Stereophonic broadcasts, which included location recordings of a train
> and troops marking past, were made in France in 1950. Presumably they
> used location recordings for these. The description of the process
> includes a photograph of a tape head block, which looks like a Studer,
> with staggered recording heads.
>
> Ref: "Improved Stereophony" E.Aisberg. - Wireless World 1950 P327-330
> September.
>
>
> There is a great deal of information on multi-track recordings in
> Chapter 9 of Peter Copeland's manual:
>
> http://www.bl.uk/reshelp/findhelprestype/sound/anaudio/analoguesoundrest
> oration.pdf
>
>
> --
> ~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
> (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
> www.poppyrecords.co.uk

[William Sommerwerck]

Sorry for the erroneous posting

> I'd guess movie sound was the earliest application of
> multi-track outside the studios of music production...

Multi-track sound recording actually began with RCA's 7-channel optical
recorder in the mid-30s, but it's hard to imagine why it would have been
used for "location" recording, which would have been primarily dialog, not
music.

As someone else suggested, the first multi-channel "location" recordings
were probably made for "This is Cinerama".

[Adrian Tuddenham[_2_]]

William Sommerwerck > wrote:

> Sorry for the erroneous posting
>
> > I'd guess movie sound was the earliest application of
> > multi-track outside the studios of music production...
>
> Multi-track sound recording actually began with RCA's 7-channel optical
> recorder in the mid-30s,

Psst! ...Blumlein 1931


--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

[[email protected]]

On Nov 3, 4:07*am, Jürgen Schöpf > wrote:
> Dear colleagues,
>
> I am searching for early examples of multi track location recording
> machinery, projects, and people who have used them - especially in
> social sciences
> research. I'd guess movie sound was the earliest application of multi
> track outside the studios of music production, but with what machinery
> and when? I know Ampex delivered their first 8-track to les Paul in
> 1957,
> but that was definitely not a mobile device :-)
>
> I also know some french musicologists have used overdub techniques
> with two
> stereo machines in field recording for some time (Simha Arom and his
> group of researchers), possibly in the 1980s.
>
> But perhaps the consumer 4-track compact cassette (home studio)
> machines
> like the famous Tascam PortaStudio of 1979 was the earliest used in
> field recrording? ...
>
> I would be grateful for any hints
>
> Best Regards
> :-J
>
> --
> Jürgen Schöpf, Dr. phil.
> Österreichische Akademie der Wissenschaften / Austrian Academy of
> Sciences
> Phonogrammarchiv
> Liebiggasse 5
> A-1010 Wien / Vienna
> Österreich / Austria
> Fon: +43-1-4277-29611
> Fax: +43-1-4277-9296http://www.phonogrammarchiv.at/

If you're talking rock music, Wally Heider was doing it as early as
the late '60s in he LA area.

http://wallyheider.com/wordpress/welcome2/

[molemi]

Am 03.11.2010 16:10, schrieb Adrian Tuddenham:
> William > wrote:
>
>> Sorry for the erroneous posting
>>
>>> I'd guess movie sound was the earliest application of
>>> multi-track outside the studios of music production...
>>
>> Multi-track sound recording actually began with RCA's 7-channel optical
>> recorder in the mid-30s,
>
> Psst! ...Blumlein 1931
>
>

Thanks for the references, especially Copeland's book was extremely
helpful. That settles it for the technology side.

But for me the most interesting thing is: when did this technology spill
over into the humanities (by my experience usually a generation later...)

:-J

[William Sommerwerck]

"Adrian Tuddenham" > wrote in message
nvalid.invalid...
> William Sommerwerck > wrote:

>>> I'd guess movie sound was the earliest application of
>>> multi-track outside the studios of music production...

>> Multi-track sound recording actually began with RCA's 7-channel optical
>> recorder in the mid-30s,

> Psst! ...Blumlein 1931

And how did Blumlein do it? He developed a disk cutter head (not unlike the
Westrex 45-45), but I've never read how he intended to make multi-channel
masters.

In the /modern/ usage of the term, "multi-channel" means "more than two or
three channels", though (of course) stereo recordings are multi-channel.

To the best of my knowledge, the first commercially available multi-channel
recording system was the RCA. If someone knows of another, please tell us.

[Adrian Tuddenham[_2_]]

William Sommerwerck > wrote:

> "Adrian Tuddenham" > wrote in message
> nvalid.invalid...
> > William Sommerwerck > wrote:
>
> >>> I'd guess movie sound was the earliest application of
> >>> multi-track outside the studios of music production...
>
> >> Multi-track sound recording actually began with RCA's 7-channel optical
> >> recorder in the mid-30s,
>
> > Psst! ...Blumlein 1931
>
> And how did Blumlein do it? He developed a disk cutter head (not unlike the
> Westrex 45-45), but I've never read how he intended to make multi-channel
> masters.

He also developed a stereo sound-on-film system.

I have pressings of some of his discs and they are lateral-vertical,
although his patent includes both methods. The 45-45 system was agreed
between WE and Decca in the 1950s. (Apparently the competition between
record companies was so fierce and dirty that when Decca approached WE
and agreed to use the same system in the interests of standardisation,
WE were completely taken aback)

>
> In the /modern/ usage of the term, "multi-channel" means "more than two or
> three channels", though (of course) stereo recordings are multi-channel.

I had assumed it just meant 'more than one', so stereo was included.


--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

[William Sommerwerck]

>> And how did Blumlein do it? He developed a disk
>> cutter head (not unlike the Westrex 45-45), but I've
>> never read how he intended to make multi-channel
>> masters.

> He also developed a stereo sound-on-film system.

> I have pressings of some of his discs and they are
> lateral-vertical, although his patent includes both
> methods. The 45-45 system was agreed between
> WE and Decca in the 1950s. (Apparently the
> competition between record companies was so fierce
> and dirty that when Decca approached WE and agreed
> to use the same system in the interests of standardisation,
> WE were completely taken aback.)

That's odd, because EMI (I think) proposed a vertical-lateral system which
is, of course, Really Stupid.

[Adrian Tuddenham[_2_]]

William Sommerwerck > wrote:

> >> And how did Blumlein do it? He developed a disk
> >> cutter head (not unlike the Westrex 45-45), but I've
> >> never read how he intended to make multi-channel
> >> masters.
>
> > He also developed a stereo sound-on-film system.
>
> > I have pressings of some of his discs and they are
> > lateral-vertical, although his patent includes both
> > methods. The 45-45 system was agreed between
> > WE and Decca in the 1950s. (Apparently the
> > competition between record companies was so fierce
> > and dirty that when Decca approached WE and agreed
> > to use the same system in the interests of standardisation,
> > WE were completely taken aback.)
>
> That's odd, because EMI (I think) proposed a vertical-lateral system which
> is, of course, Really Stupid.

EMI in the 1950s didn't even realise they had held the patents on
stereo. They really were a strange (dis)organisation.

Decca also developed a carrier system with very low crosstalk, but the
engineers didn't want to tell the sales department about it in case they
were told to abandon stereo research and use it to double the playing
time of the record instead.


--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

[William Sommerwerck]

> > >> And how did Blumlein do it? He developed a disk
> > >> cutter head (not unlike the Westrex 45-45), but I've
> > >> never read how he intended to make multi-channel
> > >> masters.
> >
> > > He also developed a stereo sound-on-film system.
> >
> > > I have pressings of some of his discs and they are
> > > lateral-vertical, although his patent includes both
> > > methods. The 45-45 system was agreed between
> > > WE and Decca in the 1950s. (Apparently the
> > > competition between record companies was so fierce
> > > and dirty that when Decca approached WE and agreed
> > > to use the same system in the interests of standardisation,
> > > WE were completely taken aback.)
> >
> > That's odd, because EMI (I think) proposed a vertical-lateral system
which
> > is, of course, Really Stupid.
>
> EMI in the 1950s didn't even realise they had held the patents on
> stereo. They really were a strange (dis)organisation.
>
> Decca also developed a carrier system with very low crosstalk, but the
> engineers didn't want to tell the sales department about it in case they
> were told to abandon stereo research and use it to double the playing
> time of the record instead.

I just realized I was getting Decca and EMI confused. Blumlein worked for
EMI, not Decca.

[Ty Ford]

On Wed, 3 Nov 2010 11:43:51 -0400, wrote
(in article
>):

> On Nov 3, 4:07*am, Jürgen Schöpf > wrote:
>> Dear colleagues,
>>
>> I am searching for early examples of multi track location recording
>> machinery, projects, and people who have used them - especially in
>> social sciences
>> research. I'd guess movie sound was the earliest application of multi
>> track outside the studios of music production, but with what machinery
>> and when? I know Ampex delivered their first 8-track to les Paul in
>> 1957,
>> but that was definitely not a mobile device :-)
>>
>> I also know some french musicologists have used overdub techniques
>> with two
>> stereo machines in field recording for some time (Simha Arom and his
>> group of researchers), possibly in the 1980s.
>>
>> But perhaps the consumer 4-track compact cassette (home studio)
>> machines
>> like the famous Tascam PortaStudio of 1979 was the earliest used in
>> field recrording? ...
>>
>> I would be grateful for any hints
>>
>> Best Regards
>>> -J
>>
>> --
>> Jürgen Schöpf, Dr. phil.
>> Österreichische Akademie der Wissenschaften / Austrian Academy of
>> Sciences
>> Phonogrammarchiv
>> Liebiggasse 5
>> A-1010 Wien / Vienna
>> Österreich / Austria
>> Fon: +43-1-4277-29611
>> Fax: +43-1-4277-9296http://www.phonogrammarchiv.at/
>
> If you're talking rock music, Wally Heider was doing it as early as
> the late '60s in he LA area.
>
> http://wallyheider.com/wordpress/welcome2/

I'm not certain of the timeline, but Link Wray had a 3-track recorder in
Accokeek, MD very early on.


Regards,

Ty Ford


--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaPRHMGhGA

[Scott Dorsey]

In article >,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=FCrgen_Sch=F6pf?= > wrote:
>
>I am searching for early examples of multi track location recording
>machinery, projects, and people who have used them - especially in
>social sciences
>research. I'd guess movie sound was the earliest application of multi
>track outside the studios of music production, but with what machinery
>and when? I know Ampex delivered their first 8-track to les Paul in
>1957,
>but that was definitely not a mobile device :-)

Film sound folks didn't adopt multitrack until M*A*S*H which was quite
a few years after multitrack had been used in the music recording world.

I think the first time a 4-track 440 was made, someone stuck it in an
Ampex portable box and took it out into the field.

By some argument, almost all early stereo recordings were done on
three-track machines and mixed to stereo even in the field.

>I also know some french musicologists have used overdub techniques
>with two
>stereo machines in field recording for some time (Simha Arom and his
>group of researchers), possibly in the 1980s.

Overdubbing started happening as soon as people brought back field
recordings that they didn't like, and had multitrack masters so that
they could fix them up.

>But perhaps the consumer 4-track compact cassette (home studio)
>machines
>like the famous Tascam PortaStudio of 1979 was the earliest used in
>field recrording? ...

Long, LONG before then. By the time Woodstock was running a pair of
those godawful 8-track Scully machines, multitrack field recording was
very common.

I'd look at the history of Wally Heider's truck if I were you, he is
probably a good capsule of the whole industry.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."