Need a way to hook up IEMs for singer

[JoeSpareBedroom[_2_]]

For our mixer, we're currently using a Yamaha EMX5014C.
Info:
http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/ModelSeriesDetail/0,,CNTID%25253D63236%252526CTID%25253D227800,00.ht ml#

User manual:
http://www2.yamaha.co.jp/manual/pdf/pa/english/mixers/emx5014c_en_om_c0.pdf

The Yamaha's internal amp runs the mains. We run the AUX1 and AUX2 outputs
to a separate amp for our monitors - one on the floor at front of the stage
and another perched right next to our drummer. With this setup, we can send
however much of each input channel is desired for each monitor (via the aux1
and aux2 sends on each channel).

The singer wants to connect an IEM wireless box into this arrangement.
Theoretically, should there be any electrical problems with simply splitting
each AUX output, sending them both to the external amp and to the IEM
transmitter?

Then, there's a separate issue: What if the singer wants a different mix in
his ears than everyone else needs in the monitors? Obviously, there would
have to be a compromise.

BUT: What if we had some money to spend, and our goal was to arrange for
separate monitor mixes - one for the singer's IEMs, and another for the two
monitors? What sort of equipment would do the trick?

[Scott Dorsey]

JoeSpareBedroom > wrote:
>
>The Yamaha's internal amp runs the mains. We run the AUX1 and AUX2 outputs
>to a separate amp for our monitors - one on the floor at front of the stage
>and another perched right next to our drummer. With this setup, we can send
>however much of each input channel is desired for each monitor (via the aux1
>and aux2 sends on each channel).
>
>The singer wants to connect an IEM wireless box into this arrangement.
>Theoretically, should there be any electrical problems with simply splitting
>each AUX output, sending them both to the external amp and to the IEM
>transmitter?

I'd only send one of them to the singer, not both of them. Y-ing them off
is fine although you don't get independant level control.

>Then, there's a separate issue: What if the singer wants a different mix in
>his ears than everyone else needs in the monitors? Obviously, there would
>have to be a compromise.

Then you use Aux-3 for that.

>BUT: What if we had some money to spend, and our goal was to arrange for
>separate monitor mixes - one for the singer's IEMs, and another for the two
>monitors? What sort of equipment would do the trick?

You just use a console with three or more aux busses.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Desk Rabbit[_2_]]

On 13/10/2010 22:15, Jay S wrote:
>
> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote in message
> ...
>> For our mixer, we're currently using a Yamaha EMX5014C.
>> Info:
>> http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/ModelSeriesDetail/0,,CNTID%25253D63236%252526CTID%25253D227800,00.ht ml#
>>
>>
>> User manual:
>> http://www2.yamaha.co.jp/manual/pdf/pa/english/mixers/emx5014c_en_om_c0.pdf
>>
>>
>> The Yamaha's internal amp runs the mains. We run the AUX1 and AUX2
>> outputs to a separate amp for our monitors - one on the floor at front
>> of the stage and another perched right next to our drummer. With this
>> setup, we can send however much of each input channel is desired for
>> each monitor (via the aux1 and aux2 sends on each channel).
>>
>> The singer wants to connect an IEM wireless box into this arrangement.
>> Theoretically, should there be any electrical problems with simply
>> splitting each AUX output, sending them both to the external amp and
>> to the IEM transmitter?
>>
>> Then, there's a separate issue: What if the singer wants a different
>> mix in his ears than everyone else needs in the monitors? Obviously,
>> there would have to be a compromise.
>>
>> BUT: What if we had some money to spend, and our goal was to arrange
>> for separate monitor mixes - one for the singer's IEMs, and another
>> for the two monitors? What sort of equipment would do the trick?
>>
>>
>
> Lead singers can't "share" a mix...everyone shares what the singer wants.
> Here's what I would do....
> make the singer buy a small mixer, something like this:
> http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHXENYX1002
> Do the following:
> Use your mixer like you normally would
> Figure out what your singer wants in his IEM's
> on your yamaha mixer, plug a 1/4" cable into the inserts on each channel
> your singer wants in his IEM's
> Only plug that cable in the insert half way in...up to the first click.
> This will allow the sound to go to his mixer but not cancel the sound to
> your Yamaha.
> Plug the other end of those 1/4" cables into his new mixer channels and
> mix them how he wants.
> run out of his new mixer into his IEM setup.
> Simple, and he's in control of whatever he wants without effecting
> anyone else.
>
> Before you go buy a mixer, test that your Yamaha has a good half way in
> click on those inserts. I've seen some mixers that it was more of a
> phantom click and it was too easy to go too far and cut out the sound to
> the mains. To test, put something in that channel (a mic) do the half
> way in insert, and run that out to your bass amp or guitar amp or
> whatever you have around. if you get sound out of your mixer and out of
> whatever you ran the insert into, you're good to go!

Or better yet, do the job properly in a way that won't cause your sound
to fail suddenly. Wire up a stereo jack to take a feed out and pass the
signal through, that way the jack goes all the way in and the integrity
of your signal path shouldn't be broken. The best alternative for the OP
however is to have a desk with sufficient AUXs.

[JoeSpareBedroom[_2_]]

"Desk Rabbit" > wrote in message
...
> On 13/10/2010 22:15, Jay S wrote:
>>
>> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> For our mixer, we're currently using a Yamaha EMX5014C.
>>> Info:
>>> http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/ModelSeriesDetail/0,,CNTID%25253D63236%252526CTID%25253D227800,00.ht ml#
>>>
>>>
>>> User manual:
>>> http://www2.yamaha.co.jp/manual/pdf/pa/english/mixers/emx5014c_en_om_c0.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>> The Yamaha's internal amp runs the mains. We run the AUX1 and AUX2
>>> outputs to a separate amp for our monitors - one on the floor at front
>>> of the stage and another perched right next to our drummer. With this
>>> setup, we can send however much of each input channel is desired for
>>> each monitor (via the aux1 and aux2 sends on each channel).
>>>
>>> The singer wants to connect an IEM wireless box into this arrangement.
>>> Theoretically, should there be any electrical problems with simply
>>> splitting each AUX output, sending them both to the external amp and
>>> to the IEM transmitter?
>>>
>>> Then, there's a separate issue: What if the singer wants a different
>>> mix in his ears than everyone else needs in the monitors? Obviously,
>>> there would have to be a compromise.
>>>
>>> BUT: What if we had some money to spend, and our goal was to arrange
>>> for separate monitor mixes - one for the singer's IEMs, and another
>>> for the two monitors? What sort of equipment would do the trick?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Lead singers can't "share" a mix...everyone shares what the singer wants.
>> Here's what I would do....
>> make the singer buy a small mixer, something like this:
>> http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHXENYX1002
>> Do the following:
>> Use your mixer like you normally would
>> Figure out what your singer wants in his IEM's
>> on your yamaha mixer, plug a 1/4" cable into the inserts on each channel
>> your singer wants in his IEM's
>> Only plug that cable in the insert half way in...up to the first click.
>> This will allow the sound to go to his mixer but not cancel the sound to
>> your Yamaha.
>> Plug the other end of those 1/4" cables into his new mixer channels and
>> mix them how he wants.
>> run out of his new mixer into his IEM setup.
>> Simple, and he's in control of whatever he wants without effecting
>> anyone else.
>>
>> Before you go buy a mixer, test that your Yamaha has a good half way in
>> click on those inserts. I've seen some mixers that it was more of a
>> phantom click and it was too easy to go too far and cut out the sound to
>> the mains. To test, put something in that channel (a mic) do the half
>> way in insert, and run that out to your bass amp or guitar amp or
>> whatever you have around. if you get sound out of your mixer and out of
>> whatever you ran the insert into, you're good to go!
>
> Or better yet, do the job properly in a way that won't cause your sound to
> fail suddenly. Wire up a stereo jack to take a feed out and pass the
> signal through, that way the jack goes all the way in and the integrity of
> your signal path shouldn't be broken. The best alternative for the OP
> however is to have a desk with sufficient AUXs.


If you're referring to wiring the internals of the phone plug, I agree.

All the ideas so far seem like good ones. I'll be trying the cheapest one
first just to be sure the singer's comfortable with actually using the IEMs.
It'll be up to him to invest in the mic splitter if we decide to go that
way. The mixer is mine.

[Richard Webb[_3_]]

Desk Rabbit writes:

<snip>

>> Figure out what your singer wants in his IEM's
>> on your yamaha mixer, plug a 1/4" cable into the inserts on each channel
>> your singer wants in his IEM's
>> Only plug that cable in the insert half way in...up to the first click.
>> This will allow the sound to go to his mixer but not cancel the sound to
>> your Yamaha.
>> Plug the other end of those 1/4" cables into his new mixer channels and
>> mix them how he wants.
>> run out of his new mixer into his IEM setup.
>> Simple, and he's in control of whatever he wants without effecting
>> anyone else.
>> Before you go buy a mixer, test that your Yamaha has a good half way in
>> click on those inserts. I've seen some mixers that it was more of a
>> phantom click and it was too easy to go too far and cut out the sound to
>> the mains. To test, put something in that channel (a mic) do the half
>> way in insert, and run that out to your bass amp or guitar amp or
>> whatever you have around. if you get sound out of your mixer and out of
>> whatever you ran the insert into, you're good to go!

> Or better yet, do the job properly in a way that won't cause your
> sound to fail suddenly. Wire up a stereo jack to take a feed out
> and pass the signal through, that way the jack goes all the way in
> and the integrity of your signal path shouldn't be broken. The best
> alternative for the OP however is to have a desk with sufficient
> AUXs.

wOuld agree. This halfway in inserts thing has always been
imho fraught with problems. SOmebody bumps the connection,
suddenly no sound, or a nice transient somewhere else. DO
the job right and wire the insert cables properly in the
first place if you plan to use this method to get
connections to another mixer. OR, get a mixing console that provides enough aux sends.

Also, for Joe, your singer's iems should be *after* a good
limiter. FOr those using iems limiters in the signal path
are a safety requirement just as are hard hats on construction sites.


Regards,
Richard
.... Remote audio in the southland: See www.gatasound.com
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