Turntable worth keeping/fixing?

[polymod]

The albums have been kept in hiding for years, but the other day I was
pumped about digitizing one particular album I had performed on some years
ago. So I dug up the wife's 1972 Marantz turntable and was ready to roll but
discovered the turntable no longer spins. I took off what I had always
called the "turntable" and discovered what I assume used to be a rubber belt
now looks like liquid tar and made a bit of a mess.

Bag it? Or is it just a matter of some thorough cleaning and a belt from a
30 year old record player?

I took a few pics if it helps:
The black tar-like substance around the brass roller is the culprit.
http://www.sonicmusic.net/turntable1.JPG
http://www.sonicmusic.net/turntable2.JPG

Make/model:
http://www.sonicmusic.net/turntable3.JPG
http://www.sonicmusic.net/turntable4.JPG

btw, I've been a piano tech for over 30 years so I'm not afraid to get my
hands dirty ;)

TIA

Poly

[UnsteadyKen]

polymod said...

> btw, I've been a piano tech for over 30 years so I'm not afraid to get my
> hands dirty ;)

Just clean up the rubber mess and then give the pulley and inner suface
of the platter a good clean with a non oily alcohol type solvent.

Replace belt cheaply from one of the many suppliers desperate for your
money such as http://www.elexatelier.com/marantz.htm
and it should be fine.

You could also check the oil/lubricant in the main bearing and also the
motor may have a lube point which should be given a couple of drops.


--
Ken O'Meara
http://www.btinternet.com/~unsteadyken/

[Scott Dorsey]

polymod > wrote:
>The albums have been kept in hiding for years, but the other day I was
>pumped about digitizing one particular album I had performed on some years
>ago. So I dug up the wife's 1972 Marantz turntable and was ready to roll but
>discovered the turntable no longer spins. I took off what I had always
>called the "turntable" and discovered what I assume used to be a rubber belt
>now looks like liquid tar and made a bit of a mess.
>
>Bag it? Or is it just a matter of some thorough cleaning and a belt from a
>30 year old record player?

If it's a belt-drive, PRB Line (Russell Industries) will have belts.
Clean thoroughly, lube the main bearing and the arm bearings with light
turbine oil (Zoom Spout Oil from Ace Hardware will do the job).

Odds are the cartridge suspension has also turned to good, but you'll know
that when you try it.

>I took a few pics if it helps:
>The black tar-like substance around the brass roller is the culprit.
>http://www.sonicmusic.net/turntable1.JPG
>http://www.sonicmusic.net/turntable2.JPG
>
>Make/model:
>http://www.sonicmusic.net/turntable3.JPG
>http://www.sonicmusic.net/turntable4.JPG

I have no web access here, so I don't know what any of this is, but I will
say that in general old belt-drive machines from this era aren't anything
amazing but they aren't bad and they are a big step up from the idler
drive crap. The big issue with most machines of this era were poorly
damped arms that rung severely.

>btw, I've been a piano tech for over 30 years so I'm not afraid to get my
>hands dirty ;)

Clean it up, see how it sounds. Get a Grado DJ-100 cartridge and the
elliptical stylus for the ZTE+1 cartridge (which happens to fit the
DJ-100). It's a good combination for older heavier arms.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers]

On 9/18/2010 12:45 PM, polymod wrote:

> I dug up the wife's 1972 Marantz turntable and was ready to roll but
> discovered the turntable no longer spins. I took off what I had always
> called the "turntable" and discovered what I assume used to be a rubber belt
> now looks like liquid tar and made a bit of a mess.
>
> Bag it? Or is it just a matter of some thorough cleaning and a belt from a
> 30 year old record player?

Replacement belts aren't that hard to fined. I'm totally blanking on the
catalog I have at home that's full of them, but a quick Google search
suggests that http://www.needledoctor.com/ might be a good place to
start. Scott probably knows the place I'm trying to think of.


> btw, I've been a piano tech for over 30 years so I'm not afraid to get my
> hands dirty ;)

You'll get your hands dirty cleaning up that muck, that's for sure. It's
probably worth trying to find a replacement belt. If the cartridge is
still OK, the turntable is probably as good as any new $100 USB one that
you'll get today, or one for $10 at a yard sale.




--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without
a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be
operated without a passing knowledge of audio" - John Watkinson

[PStamler]

Oh by the way, about those ringing tonearms...you can clean them up a
bit with a couple of rings of Mortite or Strip-Calk (from 3M) around
the shaft. Put one right where the shaft goes into the pivot assembly,
another halfway down the shaft, and another 1/3 of the way down the
shaft, toward the pivot end. Flatten each ring down so it's more like
a wedding band than a donut. You'll need to adjust the arm's balance
and tracking force after you do this, and the added mass may shift the
LF resonance down a bit, but it's worth it -- the damping really helps
minimize the arm ringing. Strip-Calk seems to work a little better but
it's harder to find, whereas Mortite is in every hardware store.
Neither one seems to harden much with age.

Peace,
Paul

[Fred[_12_]]

"UnsteadyKen" > wrote in message m...
> polymod said...
>
>> btw, I've been a piano tech for over 30 years so I'm not afraid to get my
>> hands dirty ;)
>
> Just clean up the rubber mess and then give the pulley and inner suface
> of the platter a good clean with a non oily alcohol type solvent.
>
> Replace belt cheaply from one of the many suppliers desperate for your
> money such as http://www.elexatelier.com/marantz.htm
> and it should be fine.
>
> You could also check the oil/lubricant in the main bearing and also the
> motor may have a lube point which should be given a couple of drops.

Before you do anything else, make sure the motor pulley turns when power
is applied, and that the tone arm motion is free. If either of these conditions
is not met, the turntable is junk. Otherwise, a little oil and a new belt and
you're in business.

Fred

> --
> Ken O'Meara
> http://www.btinternet.com/~unsteadyken/

[Bruce[_8_]]

polymod wrote:

> The albums have been kept in hiding for years, but the other day I was
> pumped about digitizing one particular album I had performed on some years
> ago. So I dug up the wife's 1972 Marantz turntable and was ready to roll
> but discovered the turntable no longer spins. I took off what I had always
> called the "turntable" and discovered what I assume used to be a rubber
> belt now looks like liquid tar and made a bit of a mess.
>
> Bag it? Or is it just a matter of some thorough cleaning and a belt from a
> 30 year old record player?
>
> I took a few pics if it helps:
> The black tar-like substance around the brass roller is the culprit.
> http://www.sonicmusic.net/turntable1.JPG
> http://www.sonicmusic.net/turntable2.JPG
>
> Make/model:
> http://www.sonicmusic.net/turntable3.JPG
> http://www.sonicmusic.net/turntable4.JPG
>
> btw, I've been a piano tech for over 30 years so I'm not afraid to get my
> hands dirty ;)
>
> TIA
>
> Poly
I agree with the others....common sense.clean it up.take it slow an enjoy.
That was a good Ttable in its day.

[polymod]

"UnsteadyKen" > wrote in message
m...
> polymod said...
>
> > btw, I've been a piano tech for over 30 years so I'm not afraid to get
my
> > hands dirty ;)
>
> Just clean up the rubber mess and then give the pulley and inner suface
> of the platter a good clean with a non oily alcohol type solvent.
>
> Replace belt cheaply from one of the many suppliers desperate for your
> money such as http://www.elexatelier.com/marantz.htm
> and it should be fine.
>
> You could also check the oil/lubricant in the main bearing and also the
> motor may have a lube point which should be given a couple of drops.

Thanks Ken. Appreciate the advice.

Poly

[polymod]

"Fred" > wrote in message
...
>
> "UnsteadyKen" > wrote in message
m...
> > polymod said...
> >
> >> btw, I've been a piano tech for over 30 years so I'm not afraid to get
my
> >> hands dirty ;)
> >
> > Just clean up the rubber mess and then give the pulley and inner suface
> > of the platter a good clean with a non oily alcohol type solvent.
> >
> > Replace belt cheaply from one of the many suppliers desperate for your
> > money such as http://www.elexatelier.com/marantz.htm
> > and it should be fine.
> >
> > You could also check the oil/lubricant in the main bearing and also the
> > motor may have a lube point which should be given a couple of drops.
>
> Before you do anything else, make sure the motor pulley turns when power
> is applied, and that the tone arm motion is free. If either of these
conditions
> is not met, the turntable is junk. Otherwise, a little oil and a new belt
and
> you're in business.

Thanks Fred. Yes, the motor pulley turns and all looks well with the naked
eye with the exception of the belt.

Poly

[polymod]

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...
> polymod > wrote:
> >The albums have been kept in hiding for years, but the other day I was
> >pumped about digitizing one particular album I had performed on some
years
> >ago. So I dug up the wife's 1972 Marantz turntable and was ready to roll
but
> >discovered the turntable no longer spins. I took off what I had always
> >called the "turntable" and discovered what I assume used to be a rubber
belt
> >now looks like liquid tar and made a bit of a mess.
> >
> >Bag it? Or is it just a matter of some thorough cleaning and a belt from
a
> >30 year old record player?
>
> If it's a belt-drive, PRB Line (Russell Industries) will have belts.
> Clean thoroughly, lube the main bearing and the arm bearings with light
> turbine oil (Zoom Spout Oil from Ace Hardware will do the job).
>
> Odds are the cartridge suspension has also turned to good, but you'll know
> that when you try it.
>
> >I took a few pics if it helps:
> >The black tar-like substance around the brass roller is the culprit.
> >http://www.sonicmusic.net/turntable1.JPG
> >http://www.sonicmusic.net/turntable2.JPG
> >
> >Make/model:
> >http://www.sonicmusic.net/turntable3.JPG
> >http://www.sonicmusic.net/turntable4.JPG
>
> I have no web access here, so I don't know what any of this is, but I will
> say that in general old belt-drive machines from this era aren't anything
> amazing but they aren't bad and they are a big step up from the idler
> drive crap. The big issue with most machines of this era were poorly
> damped arms that rung severely.
>
> >btw, I've been a piano tech for over 30 years so I'm not afraid to get my
> >hands dirty ;)
>
> Clean it up, see how it sounds. Get a Grado DJ-100 cartridge and the
> elliptical stylus for the ZTE+1 cartridge (which happens to fit the
> DJ-100). It's a good combination for older heavier arms.
> --scott

Wow. Thanks for all the good info. Much appreciated!

Poly

[polymod]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
...
> On 9/18/2010 12:45 PM, polymod wrote:
>
> > I dug up the wife's 1972 Marantz turntable and was ready to roll but
> > discovered the turntable no longer spins. I took off what I had always
> > called the "turntable" and discovered what I assume used to be a rubber
belt
> > now looks like liquid tar and made a bit of a mess.
> >
> > Bag it? Or is it just a matter of some thorough cleaning and a belt from
a
> > 30 year old record player?
>
> Replacement belts aren't that hard to fined. I'm totally blanking on the
> catalog I have at home that's full of them, but a quick Google search
> suggests that http://www.needledoctor.com/ might be a good place to
> start. Scott probably knows the place I'm trying to think of.
>
>
> > btw, I've been a piano tech for over 30 years so I'm not afraid to get
my
> > hands dirty ;)
>
> You'll get your hands dirty cleaning up that muck, that's for sure. It's
> probably worth trying to find a replacement belt. If the cartridge is
> still OK, the turntable is probably as good as any new $100 USB one that
> you'll get today, or one for $10 at a yard sale.

Thanks Mike. Appreciate the info!

Poly

[polymod]

"PStamler" > wrote in message
...
> Oh by the way, about those ringing tonearms...you can clean them up a
> bit with a couple of rings of Mortite or Strip-Calk (from 3M) around
> the shaft. Put one right where the shaft goes into the pivot assembly,
> another halfway down the shaft, and another 1/3 of the way down the
> shaft, toward the pivot end. Flatten each ring down so it's more like
> a wedding band than a donut. You'll need to adjust the arm's balance
> and tracking force after you do this, and the added mass may shift the
> LF resonance down a bit, but it's worth it -- the damping really helps
> minimize the arm ringing. Strip-Calk seems to work a little better but
> it's harder to find, whereas Mortite is in every hardware store.
> Neither one seems to harden much with age.

Good info Paul. Thank you!
If my piano tuning business ever tanks I could always go in the turntable
refurbishing business ;)

Poly

[polymod]

"Bruce" > wrote in message
. ..
> polymod wrote:
>
> > The albums have been kept in hiding for years, but the other day I was
> > pumped about digitizing one particular album I had performed on some
years
> > ago. So I dug up the wife's 1972 Marantz turntable and was ready to roll
> > but discovered the turntable no longer spins. I took off what I had
always
> > called the "turntable" and discovered what I assume used to be a rubber
> > belt now looks like liquid tar and made a bit of a mess.
> >
> > Bag it? Or is it just a matter of some thorough cleaning and a belt from
a
> > 30 year old record player?
> >
> > I took a few pics if it helps:
> > The black tar-like substance around the brass roller is the culprit.
> > http://www.sonicmusic.net/turntable1.JPG
> > http://www.sonicmusic.net/turntable2.JPG
> >
> > Make/model:
> > http://www.sonicmusic.net/turntable3.JPG
> > http://www.sonicmusic.net/turntable4.JPG
> >
> > btw, I've been a piano tech for over 30 years so I'm not afraid to get
my
> > hands dirty ;)
> >
> > TIA
> >
> > Poly
> I agree with the others....common sense.clean it up.take it slow an enjoy.
> That was a good Ttable in its day.

Thanks Bruce. Just another piece of the 70's I'd rather not part with ;)

Poly

[Arny Krueger]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message


> You'll get your hands dirty cleaning up that muck, that's
> for sure. It's probably worth trying to find a
> replacement belt. If the cartridge is still OK, the
> turntable is probably as good as any new $100 USB one
> that you'll get today, or one for $10 at a yard sale.

Don't give the $100 USB turntables too much credit. They frequently have
ceramic cartridges, and other rather obvious flaws.

Here are some pages by someone who actually held his nose and tested a
number of them:

http://www.knowzy.com/usb-turntable-comparison.htm

[William Sommerwerck]

> http://www.knowzy.com/usb-turntable-comparison.htm

This is a fascinating article, which I hope to eventually read all the way
through. It's worth noting, though, that although it correctly warns users
away from 'tables with ceramic pickups, almost everything it says about them
is wrong or dead wrong, one way or another.

Just for the record (ar, ar)... It /is/ possible to make high-quality
ceramic pickups. Both Shure and Weathers did so. The catch is that you have
throw away output for sound quality.

[Scott Dorsey]

In article >,
PStamler > wrote:
>On Sep 20, 7:32=A0am, Mark > wrote:
>> I thought this section was worth noting and sadly is all too true:
>>
>> "Today's popular music on CD is loud. Unnaturally loud. Using a
>> process called "compression," sound engineers clip the loudest sounds,
>> making the softest parts of the music even louder. One reason behind
>> the resurgence of vinyl among music lovers is the lack of compression
>> on LPs."
>
>Which of course (a) isn't true (there is some compression and/or
>limiting on almost all LPs) and (b) isn't inherent to the CD medium
>(on CD you actually have a choice whether or not to do any compression/
>limiting). It's entirely possible to cut a CD directly from the master
>tape with *no* audio processing, and in the early days of CD that was
>a strong selling point. That nitwits have chosen not to do that isn't
>inherent in the CD format.

Unfortunately, though, it remains true that a lot of LPs sound better than
the CD reissue, in spite of the limitations of the media.

Even worse, sometimes we get something like the Hair soundtrack, where you
can get an LP that has been ruined by Dynagroove, or a CD that has been
ruined by aggressive remixing and the Aphex Aural Exciter.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

William Sommerwerck > wrote:
>> Most people buy and listen to these CD's in their automobile,
>> where there is so much background noise, that unless the
>> program material is compressed, half of the music would be
>> unhearable. Try listening to a classical concert sometime and
>> hear how quiet some of the passages in the music are. These
>> would be completely lost in an automotive environment, so CDs
>> have to be compressed or nobody would buy them.
>
>The CDs discussed are pop and/or rock, not classical. I've never heard of
>classical CDs being compressed for auto use.

Be glad.

Pick up any "crossover classical" albums, which is to say any classical
albums that you can buy at Wal-Mart, and a large subset of albums that
have won Grammy awards for classical production, and you will find
compression.

>I can tell you that when listening at home, at moderate (not high) levels,
>cars and trucks can badly interfere with the quieter passages.

Yes, that's why Blaupunkt (among others) offers a compressor built into
car radios, so you can listen to these albums.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."