Re: Need Advice: Best MultiTrack for Video Editing?

[Scott Dorsey]

andrew.zey > wrote:
>
>I'm looking for the best video editing software which will have
>capable audio mixing either built in or integrated in the suite (Like
>Soundtrack Pro in Final Cut Studio or Adobe Premiere's built-in audio
>mixing). This is important as the music is tightly synced to the
>video, so the layout must be done first in the video editor, then
>exported and polished in the audio mixing software. I must be able to
>retain clip positions from the video editor.

I think you need to call your local Avid rep. Be prepared to write a big
check.

>1. FCP Doesn't allow convenient sub-frame editing. It can be done, but
>very awkwardly

Just like editing 16mm.... it's no fun. A lot of other systems are nicer,
and if need be you can export to Pro Tools or something and then re-import.

>2. FCP Limited to AIFF files, as WAV sometimes has serious drifting
>problems due to mis-identification of SMPTE framerate.

Are you sure about that? Neither wav nor AIFF files actually contain any
timecode data. As long as everything is at 48 ksamp/sec, everything should
be fine. Your timecode stuff is all out of band.

>3. FCP & STP have undefined meters (don't specify which algorithm is
>used). Both ignore peaks which are detected in WaveLab 6 running on PC

That's also something you'll find standard throughout the audio industry,
uncalibrated and doubtful metering. Get an outboard calibrated meter from
RME or Dorrough and trust it.

>4. STP Inability to pan submix busses and master mix.
>5. STP Inability to nest/group busses (so I only have 1 level of
>grouping available that would allow panning)
>6. STP Inability to copy&paste any effects or automation data
>7. STP is counter-intuitive, as it requires at least 1 sub-mix, which
>cannot be panned!
>8. STP each AUX bus has to be mapped to a submix bus
>9. All of the FCS only supports AU plugins, not MacVST's.

Here is one hint: you can use the workstation as a set of locked dubbers,
then use a mixer to do the actual mix in realtime. This gives you the best
of both worlds, and it's just like working with film and means you can avoid
all the nonsense.

>Points 4-8 are really a deal-breaker with STP, as it makes it
>extremely clumsy and awkward to get any serious mixing done.

Edit on an editor, mix on a mixer.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[andrew.zey]

Hi Scott,

Thanks for the advice. I guess I'll have to look in Avid more
seriously. I'm somewhat weary of Pro Tools, as it doesn't yet have a
32-bit internal audio resolution, which does make an audible (albeit
slight) difference in the end result when using lots of and effects
and plugins.

Although FCP officially supports WAV, I have had terrible problems
with audio drifting away from the video stream when using 24-bit 48khz
files recorded and mastered in Samplitude. Converting them to AIFF
fixed the problem. It is a wierd problem that a couple other people
had posted about on the Apple Forums, and is not really documented
anywhere.

Re: editing and mixing - certainly when my budget allows - I will
simply get a dedicated meter and mixer hardware. I'm frankly surprised
that the software solutions are so inadequate though!


Hi Arny,

Thanks for the advice. I'll test to see how capable the Premiere /
Audition combination is. Hopefully they've updated them for some round-
tripping capability. This would probably be the best option I've found
so far. I have had it confirmed by an Adobe rep that there is a known
issue with AIFF's on Premiere CS5 on Mac. They recommend converting
everything to AIFF- go figure.

Final Cut doesn't play nice with WAV, and Premiere doesn't play nice
with AIFF!







On Aug 23, 5:52*am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> andrew.zey > wrote:
>
> >I'm looking for the best video editing software which will have
> >capable audio mixing either built in or integrated in the suite (Like
> >Soundtrack Pro in Final Cut Studio or Adobe Premiere's built-in audio
> >mixing). This is important as the music is tightly synced to the
> >video, so the layout must be done first in the video editor, then
> >exported and polished in the audio mixing software. I must be able to
> >retain clip positions from the video editor.
>
> I think you need to call your local Avid rep. *Be prepared to write a big
> check.
>
> >1. FCP Doesn't allow convenient sub-frame editing. It can be done, but
> >very awkwardly
>
> Just like editing 16mm.... it's no fun. *A lot of other systems are nicer,
> and if need be you can export to Pro Tools or something and then re-import.

[WillStG]

On Aug 23, 3:26*pm, "andrew.zey" > wrote:
> Hi Scott,
>
> Thanks for the advice. I guess I'll have to look in Avid more
> seriously. I'm somewhat weary of Pro Tools, as it doesn't yet have a
> 32-bit internal audio resolution, which does make an audible (albeit
> slight) difference in the end result when using lots of and effects
> and plugins.
>
> Although FCP officially supports WAV, I have had terrible problems
> with audio drifting away from the video stream when using 24-bit 48khz
> files recorded and mastered in Samplitude. Converting them to AIFF
> fixed the problem. It is a wierd problem that a couple other people
> had posted about on the Apple Forums, and is not really documented
> anywhere.
>
> Re: editing and mixing - certainly when my budget allows - I will
> simply get a dedicated meter and mixer hardware. I'm frankly surprised
> that the software solutions are so inadequate though!
>
> Hi Arny,
>
> Thanks for the advice. I'll test to see how capable the Premiere /
> Audition combination is. Hopefully they've updated them for some round-
> tripping capability. This would probably be the best option I've found
> so far. I have had it confirmed by an Adobe rep that there is a known
> issue with AIFF's on Premiere CS5 on Mac. They recommend converting
> everything to AIFF- go figure.
>
> Final Cut doesn't play nice with WAV, and Premiere doesn't play nice
> with AIFF!
>
> On Aug 23, 5:52*am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>
> > andrew.zey > wrote:
>
> > >I'm looking for the best video editing software which will have
> > >capable audio mixing either built in or integrated in the suite (Like
> > >Soundtrack Pro in Final Cut Studio or Adobe Premiere's built-in audio
> > >mixing). This is important as the music is tightly synced to the
> > >video, so the layout must be done first in the video editor, then
> > >exported and polished in the audio mixing software. I must be able to
> > >retain clip positions from the video editor.
>
> > I think you need to call your local Avid rep. *Be prepared to write a big
> > check.
>
> > >1. FCP Doesn't allow convenient sub-frame editing. It can be done, but
> > >very awkwardly
>
> > Just like editing 16mm.... it's no fun. *A lot of other systems are nicer,
> > and if need be you can export to Pro Tools or something and then re-import.
>
> > >2. FCP Limited to AIFF files, as WAV sometimes has serious drifting
> > >problems due to mis-identification of SMPTE framerate.
>
> > Are you sure about that? *Neither wav nor AIFF files actually contain any
> > timecode data. *As long as everything is at 48 ksamp/sec, everything should
> > be fine. *Your timecode stuff is all out of band.
>
> > >3. FCP & STP have undefined meters (don't specify which algorithm is
> > >used). Both ignore peaks which are detected in WaveLab 6 running on PC
>
> > That's also something you'll find standard throughout the audio industry,
> > uncalibrated and doubtful metering. *Get an outboard calibrated meter from
> > RME or Dorrough and trust it.
>
> > >4. STP Inability to pan submix busses and master mix.
> > >5. STP Inability to nest/group busses (so I only have 1 level of
> > >grouping available that would allow panning)
> > >6. STP Inability to copy&paste any effects or automation data
> > >7. STP is counter-intuitive, as it requires at least 1 sub-mix, which
> > >cannot be panned!
> > >8. STP each AUX bus has to be mapped to a submix bus
> > >9. All of the FCS only supports AU plugins, not MacVST's.
>
> > Here is one hint: you can use the workstation as a set of locked dubbers,
> > then use a mixer to do the actual mix in realtime. *This gives you the best
> > of both worlds, and it's just like working with film and means you can avoid
> > all the nonsense.
>
> > >Points 4-8 are really a deal-breaker with STP, as it makes it
> > >extremely clumsy and awkward to get any serious mixing done.
>
> > Edit on an editor, mix on a mixer.
> > --scott
>
> > --
> > "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

My editor has been using Media Composer (albeit not the latest
version). He still spots the audio mix I give him in Premiere, where
he can drag the audio to match picture (like a drummer's cymbal hit.)
We do use BWF's.

Will Miho

[Danny T]

On Aug 23, 7:52*am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> andrew.zey > wrote:
>
> >I'm looking for the best video editing software which will have
> >capable audio mixing either built in or integrated in the suite (Like
> >Soundtrack Pro in Final Cut Studio or Adobe Premiere's built-in audio
> >mixing). This is important as the music is tightly synced to the
> >video, so the layout must be done first in the video editor, then
> >exported and polished in the audio mixing software. I must be able to
> >retain clip positions from the video editor.
>
> I think you need to call your local Avid rep. *Be prepared to write a big
> check.
>
> >1. FCP Doesn't allow convenient sub-frame editing. It can be done, but
> >very awkwardly
>
> Just like editing 16mm.... it's no fun. *A lot of other systems are nicer,
> and if need be you can export to Pro Tools or something and then re-import.