receiver and system questions (newbie!)

[Zachary Uram]

So far I have an old Technics SL-PG300 CD player, Polk Audio PSW 10 powered subwoofer and Polk Audio Monitor 30 pair of bookshelf speakers so all I need is a turntable and receiver.

My sole interest is listening to classical music so I don't care about video and other types of input sources.

I keep reading that if you buy a turntable (LP player) you need a dedicated pre-amp. If I buy a receiver like this one can I just plug a turntable into the PHONO IN or do I need a separate pre-amp for it?

BTW I am thinking of getting the Harman Kardon HK 3390 as my receiver. Do you think this is a good receiver for classical music? My price range is $200 to $250 so this just fits in there.

I had a couple other questions:

Some receivers advertise a "trigger" for a direct connection to the subwoofer, what exactly is this and what type of cable will I need for that? Is the performance better than using regular RCA cable?

Also if I use regular RCA cable to connect CD player to the receiver is that sufficient for really nice sound when listening to classical music or would I need to make sure the receiver has an optical input and if I do that what type of cable would I need?

Overall do you think my system will be nice? If I wanted to upgrade in the future what is a good set of entry level audiophile floor standing speakers (and is it true if I get such speakers they can deliver the bass well enough such that I no longer need a subwoofer?) and what is a better CD player I could get? I don't care about multi-discs. I actually prefer single disc CD players.

Thanks everyone, I'm happy to be on these forums.
Zach

[Bret L]

A receiver will have a phono section, or it won't. For the level of
work you want just buy any old decent receiver with a phono section.
If you don't need FM reception buy an integrated amplifier. Several
good new or refurb vintage choices are available.

Optical outputs on CD players are for separate DACs. You want
regular old cables, analog.

I'd just keep the speakers you have as they are perfectly okay for
general non-critical listening,i.e. for anyone who just wants to hear
the music in a decent fashion. Small two ways and a sub are better
than a single pair of floor speakers in most of these installs if the
crossover is where it should be.

[MiNe 109]

In article >,
Zachary Uram > wrote:

> So far I have an old Technics SL-PG300 CD player, Polk Audio PSW 10
> powered subwoofer and Polk Audio Monitor 30 pair of bookshelf speakers
> so all I need is a turntable and receiver.
>
> My sole interest is listening to classical music so I don't care about
> video and other types of input sources.
>
> I keep reading that if you buy a turntable (LP player) you need a
> dedicated pre-amp. If I buy a receiver like this one can I just plug a
> turntable into the PHONO IN or do I need a separate pre-amp for it?
>
> BTW I am thinking of getting the Harman Kardon HK 3390 as my receiver.
> Do you think this is a good receiver for classical music? My price range
> is $200 to $250 so this just fits in there.
>
> I had a couple other questions:
>
> Some receivers advertise a "trigger" for a direct connection to the
> subwoofer, what exactly is this and what type of cable will I need for
> that? Is the performance better than using regular RCA cable?
>
> Also if I use regular RCA cable to connect CD player to the receiver is
> that sufficient for really nice sound when listening to classical music
> or would I need to make sure the receiver has an optical input and if I
> do that what type of cable would I need?
>
> Overall do you think my system will be nice? If I wanted to upgrade in
> the future what is a good set of entry level audiophile floor standing
> speakers (and is it true if I get such speakers they can deliver the
> bass well enough such that I no longer need a subwoofer?) and what is a
> better CD player I could get? I don't care about multi-discs. I actually
> prefer single disc CD players.

It looks like some of your questions are specific to the HK receiver.
Yes, you need a phono preamp for a record player (the HK has one). A
good cd player will sound fine from the analog output (the HK doesn't
have a digital input).

I'd go to http://www.harmanaudio.com/ to look for an explanation for the
trigger thing.

Stephen

[Boon[_2_]]

On Jul 29, 8:08*am, Bret L > wrote:

>Small two ways and a sub are better
> than a single pair of floor speakers in most of these installs if the
> crossover is where it should be.

Wrong.

[Shhhh!!!! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Jul 28, 7:52*pm, Zachary Uram <Zachary.Uram.
> wrote:

> I keep reading that if you buy a turntable (LP player) you need a
> dedicated pre-amp. If I buy a receiver like this one can I just plug a
> turntable into the PHONO IN or do I need a separate pre-amp for it?

Most receivers that have phono inputs are for magnetic cartidges only.
Some (e.g. the Yamaha R-900) also have moving coil capability. It
doesn't sound as though you currently have a turntable. When you
decide to get one make sure the cartridge you get is matched to the
phono input section of whichever receiver you get.

Do you know yet which turntable and cartridge are you considering?

[Bret L]

>
> Most receivers that have phono inputs are for magnetic cartidges only.
> Some (e.g. the Yamaha R-900) also have moving coil capability. It
> doesn't sound as though you currently have a turntable. When you
> decide to get one make sure the cartridge you get is matched to the
> phono input section of whichever receiver you get.
>
> Do you know yet which turntable and cartridge are you considering?

He'd be crazy to consider anything but a modestly priced cart for the
system he has. It would be like putting a Ferrari engine in a Chevy
Nova.

Those are either MM, moving iron or the high output MC.

[Shhhh!!!! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Jul 29, 7:34*pm, Bret L > wrote:
> > Most receivers that have phono inputs are for magnetic cartidges only.
> > Some (e.g. the Yamaha R-900) also have moving coil capability. It
> > doesn't sound as though you currently have a turntable. When you
> > decide to get one make sure the cartridge you get is matched to the
> > phono input section of whichever receiver you get.
>
> > Do you know yet which turntable and cartridge are you considering?
>
> *He'd be crazy

Tha's your particular realm, Bratzi. You have ownership.

[Boon[_2_]]

On Jul 29, 7:34*pm, Bret L > wrote:
> > Most receivers that have phono inputs are for magnetic cartidges only.
> > Some (e.g. the Yamaha R-900) also have moving coil capability. It
> > doesn't sound as though you currently have a turntable. When you
> > decide to get one make sure the cartridge you get is matched to the
> > phono input section of whichever receiver you get.
>
> > Do you know yet which turntable and cartridge are you considering?
>
> *He'd be crazy to consider anything but a modestly priced cart for the
> system he has. It would be like putting a Ferrari engine in a Chevy
> Nova.
>
> *Those are either MM, moving iron or the high output MC.

Or OC-9s and DL-103s, which are modestly priced, sound great and are
low-output MCs.

[Bret L]

On Jul 30, 9:28*am, Boon > wrote:
> On Jul 29, 7:34*pm, Bret L > wrote:
>
> > > Most receivers that have phono inputs are for magnetic cartidges only..
> > > Some (e.g. the Yamaha R-900) also have moving coil capability. It
> > > doesn't sound as though you currently have a turntable. When you
> > > decide to get one make sure the cartridge you get is matched to the
> > > phono input section of whichever receiver you get.
>
> > > Do you know yet which turntable and cartridge are you considering?
>
> > *He'd be crazy to consider anything but a modestly priced cart for the
> > system he has. It would be like putting a Ferrari engine in a Chevy
> > Nova.
>
> > *Those are either MM, moving iron or the high output MC.
>
> Or OC-9s and DL-103s, which are modestly priced, sound great and are
> low-output MCs.

Because they exist, they must be good choices for a non-audiophile
who just wants to listen to his music? He could always buy a set of
transformers if he really needed them later, but there is no reason to
go to the bother when good high output choices exist. A system such as
he is proposing is not going to sound much different with any cart he
gets so long as he sticks to reasonably decent ones in the low price
range. The high dollar ones tend to be colored on purpose and even if
not take a lot of moxie to get best results from.

[whosbest54[_2_]]

In article >,
says...

>I keep reading that if you buy a turntable (LP player) you need a
>dedicated pre-amp. If I buy a receiver like this one can I just plug a
>turntable into the PHONO IN or do I need a separate pre-amp for it?
>
>BTW I am thinking of getting the Harman Kardon HK 3390 as my receiver.
>Do you think this is a good receiver for classical music? My price range
>is $200 to $250 so this just fits in there.
>
Amazon has a pretty good description:

http://www.amazon.com/Harman-Kardon-HK-3390-Performance/dp/B00198BOAM

This receiver has a phono preamp for a magnetic cartridge, so you're all
set if you get a turntable with that sort of cartridge, which should be
fine for your purposes. I haven't looked that closely at these newer USB
turntables - if they don't have a direct output for the phono input on
the HK, then avoid them.

>I had a couple other questions:
>
>Also if I use regular RCA cable to connect CD player to the receiver is
>that sufficient for really nice sound when listening to classical music
>or would I need to make sure the receiver has an optical input and if I
>do that what type of cable would I need?
>
For your purposes and speaker setup, the line level analog input on the
HK will be more than adequate. You don't need to bother with a digital
audio input.

>Overall do you think my system will be nice? If I wanted to upgrade in
>the future what is a good set of entry level audiophile floor standing
>speakers (and is it true if I get such speakers they can deliver the
>bass well enough such that I no longer need a subwoofer?) and what is a
>better CD player I could get? I don't care about multi-discs. I actually
>prefer single disc CD players.
>
Go listen to speakers at a good audio shop with sources you prefer (bring
your own albums and CDs) and pick what sounds best to you in your price
range that are matched to your receiver's power output.

My RAO guide, linked below in my sig, contains some additional tips that
may be useful to you.

whosbest54
--
The flamewars are over...if you want it.

Unofficial rec.audio.opinion Usenet Group Brief User Guide:
http://whosbest54.netau.net/rao.htm

Unofficial rec.music.beatles Usenet Group Brief User Guide:
http://whosbest54.netau.net/rmb.html

[Boon[_2_]]

On Jul 30, 10:09*am, Bret L > wrote:
> On Jul 30, 9:28*am, Boon > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 29, 7:34*pm, Bret L > wrote:
>
> > > > Most receivers that have phono inputs are for magnetic cartidges only.
> > > > Some (e.g. the Yamaha R-900) also have moving coil capability. It
> > > > doesn't sound as though you currently have a turntable. When you
> > > > decide to get one make sure the cartridge you get is matched to the
> > > > phono input section of whichever receiver you get.
>
> > > > Do you know yet which turntable and cartridge are you considering?
>
> > > *He'd be crazy to consider anything but a modestly priced cart for the
> > > system he has. It would be like putting a Ferrari engine in a Chevy
> > > Nova.
>
> > > *Those are either MM, moving iron or the high output MC.
>
> > Or OC-9s and DL-103s, which are modestly priced, sound great and are
> > low-output MCs.
>
> *Because they exist, they must be good choices for a non-audiophile
> who just wants to listen to his music?

Of course they are. And both are good enough to whet one's appetite
for something better. Both are relatively affordable. Are you saying
that because they are low-output MCs, they can't be good choices for a
non-audiophile who just wants to listen to his music?

> He could always buy a set of
> transformers if he really needed them later, but there is no reason to
> go to the bother when good high output choices exist.

MC phono stages are getting cheaper and cheaper. He could buy one of
the Cambridge Audio phono stages for $99 and never have to worry about
cartridge choice again.

> A system such as
> he is proposing is not going to sound much different with any cart he
> gets so long as he sticks to reasonably decent ones in the low price
> range.

Bull****. Lots of inexpensive cartridges sound radically different
from one another, even on a relatively cheap system.

The high dollar ones tend to be colored on purpose and even if
> not take a lot of moxie to get best results from.

Not true. Some of the Dynavectors measure remarkably flat for analog.
So do others.

And a cheap, poorly aligned cartridge can do as much damage to a
record as an expensive, poorly aligned catridge...so there goes your
dumb "moxie" argument.

[Bret L]

On Jul 30, 2:21*pm, Boon > wrote:

<<snip>>

> Of course they are. And both are good enough to whet one's appetite
> for something better. Both are relatively affordable. Are you saying
> that because they are low-output MCs, they can't be good choices for a
> non-audiophile who just wants to listen to his music?

Not necessarily of course. But he isn't going on a quest for
"something better". He wants something that plays his music acceptably
and unless provoked by audio snobs will leave well enough alone. As he
should.

>
> > He could always buy a set of
> > transformers if he really needed them later, but there is no reason to
> > go to the bother when good high output choices exist.
>
> MC phono stages are getting cheaper and cheaper. He could buy one of
> the Cambridge Audio phono stages for $99 and never have to worry about
> cartridge choice again.

You mean one of these:

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/summary.php?PID=28&Title=Azur+540P+phono+stage

Well enough, but having a standalone phono stage is one more box and
more cables and chances for noise and ground loops. If you are going
to buy a receiver and want phono buy one with a good phono stage.
Reducing cables to the minimum is of the essence. Especially if you
can't make a cable up yourself. That's why people bought those stupid
consoles in the 50s, 60s and 70s.

>
> > A system such as
> > he is proposing is not going to sound much different with any cart he
> > gets so long as he sticks to reasonably decent ones in the low price
> > range.
>
> Bull****. Lots of inexpensive cartridges sound radically different
> from one another, even on a relatively cheap system.

Your radically different and that of most regular music listeners is
very different. If A/Bed right on the spot with a turntable with two
arms, they might notice a difference but if both carts are any good in
the first place 90% of listeners are not going to have a strong
preference.
>
> The high dollar ones tend to be colored on purpose and even if
>
> > not take a lot of moxie to get best results from.
>
> Not true. Some of the Dynavectors measure remarkably flat for analog.
> So do others.
>
> And a cheap, poorly aligned cartridge can do as much damage to a
> record as an expensive, poorly aligned catridge...so there goes your
> dumb "moxie" argument.

Yes, so he also needs to have the correct turntable setup tools and
needs to learn to use them, which he can pay for by not buying the
unnecessarily expensive cart. Vinyl in 2010 is necessarily a DIY
experience mechanically if not electrically. Don't bull**** him.

[Shhhh!!!! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Jul 31, 3:57*pm, Bret L > wrote:
> On Jul 30, 2:21*pm, Boon > wrote:

> > Bull****. Lots of inexpensive cartridges sound radically different
> > from one another, even on a relatively cheap system.
>
> *Your radically different and that of most regular music listeners is
> very different. If A/Bed right on the spot with a turntable with two
> arms, they might notice a difference but if both carts are any good in
> the first place 90% of listeners are not going to have a strong
> preference.

I'd like to see the study this is based on.

If it was done by Sailer don't bother. LOL!