Which Mac soundcard works with the Mute key?

[Keoki]

I bought a M-Audio 2496 card a long time ago, but I ended up using it
only for MIDI, because the audio outs don''t respond to the Mute key
on my G5's keyboard. (Mute is the magic button that keeps saving my
speakers and hearing when Reaktor or Kyma suddenly becomes a sonic
volcano.)

These days I'm considering Sync-Lock now to synchronize two Macs
together but, Sync-Lock requires a sound card with multiple outs. Do
any Mac soundcards with multiple outs exist which will heed the Mute
key, anyone knows? TIA

[Dale A. Francis]

all mac soundcards work with the mute button! the m-audio is not a
_mac_ soundcard, it is an external soundcard ... anything that does
not come internally in a mac will not do what you want.

[Keoki]

On Jul 24, 8:57*am, "Dale A. Francis" >
wrote:
> all mac soundcards work with the mute button! the m-audio is not a
> _mac_ soundcard, it is an external soundcard ... anything that does
> not come internally in a mac will not do what you want.

Hello Dale,

Thank you for trying to help. The M-Audio 2496 is a PCI audio
soundcard, not an external device.

I figured that the compatibility with the Mute button on the Mac
keyboard would simply depend on how good Mac driver the soundcard's
manufacturer created. Hence my original question if anyone knows a Mac
audio/MIDI card with multiple audio outputs which does respond to the
Mute key.

Keoki

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 15:36:33 -0700 (PDT), Keoki >
wrote:

>On Jul 24, 8:57*am, "Dale A. Francis" >
>wrote:
>> all mac soundcards work with the mute button! the m-audio is not a
>> _mac_ soundcard, it is an external soundcard ... anything that does
>> not come internally in a mac will not do what you want.
>
>Hello Dale,
>
>Thank you for trying to help. The M-Audio 2496 is a PCI audio
>soundcard, not an external device.
>
>I figured that the compatibility with the Mute button on the Mac
>keyboard would simply depend on how good Mac driver the soundcard's
>manufacturer created. Hence my original question if anyone knows a Mac
>audio/MIDI card with multiple audio outputs which does respond to the
>Mute key.

Though the keyboard mute button is useful, there are other ways of
arranging audio cut-off. If it isn't widely supported, I would
suggest there are more important things to consider when choosing a
sound card.

[Dale A. Francis]

On Jul 25, 6:36*pm, Keoki > wrote:
> On Jul 24, 8:57*am, "Dale A. Francis" >
> wrote:
>
> > all mac soundcards work with the mute button! the m-audio is not a
> > _mac_ soundcard, it is an external soundcard ... anything that does
> > not come internally in a mac will not do what you want.
>
> Hello Dale,
>
> Thank you for trying to help. The M-Audio 2496 is a PCI audio
> soundcard, not an external device.
>
> I figured that the compatibility with the Mute button on the Mac
> keyboard would simply depend on how good Mac driver the soundcard's
> manufacturer created. Hence my original question if anyone knows a Mac
> audio/MIDI card with multiple audio outputs which does respond to the
> Mute key.
>
> Keoki

your question is actually does anyone know of a mac compatible audio
card that ...

the new metric halo 2d I/O's does have a monitor control gui that has
a mute function that you could use the keyboard short cuts to control
it via something like the shuttle contour

[Keoki]

> Though the keyboard mute button is useful, there are other ways of
> arranging audio cut-off.

Sure, the master fader on my mixer's end. 5 seconds from sitting
position at my favorite keyboard. (Must navigate around several
things.)
By then the speakers (and my hearing) could be long gone.

>*If it isn't widely supported, I would suggest there are more important things to
> consider when choosing a sound card.

Not for me, for the reason above. Amazingly, even VersionTracker.com
doesn't offer any OSX push-button "mute audio" utility.

[Keoki]

Thank you for the suggestion, Dale, I'll keep the MH I/O in mind.

Hmm, I never checked out "control surfaces". Perhaps one of those
cheapo boxes could mute audio at OS level with a button push?

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:31:03 -0700 (PDT), Keoki >
wrote:

>Thank you for the suggestion, Dale, I'll keep the MH I/O in mind.
>
>Hmm, I never checked out "control surfaces". Perhaps one of those
>cheapo boxes could mute audio at OS level with a button push?

Oh, for goodness sake! If a mute button under your fingers is so
vital to you, wire up a switch and put it next to your keyboard.

[Mike Rivers]

Keoki wrote:
>> Though the keyboard mute button is useful, there are other ways of
>> arranging audio cut-off.
>
> Sure, the master fader on my mixer's end. 5 seconds from sitting
> position at my favorite keyboard. (Must navigate around several
> things.)
> By then the speakers (and my hearing) could be long gone.

Oh - you're talking about a MUTE button on your
black-and-white keyboard, not your QWERTY keyboard? Who'd a
thunkit? That key could do anything, but probably sends a
MIDI note off message to turn off a stuck MIDI note. It
doesn't have anything to do with audio playing back from
your computer.

What kind of things are you doing, or are happening, that
risk your speakers or hearing? Maybe you should be looking
at fixing the problem rather than just coming up with a way
to ignore it.


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

[Keoki]

Hello Mike,

I *am* talking about the Mute button on my QWERTY Mac keyboard.
Not sure about other soundcards, but the M-Audio 2496 ignores it for
sure.

What am I doing that I risk my speakers? For one, exploring less-
threaded synthesis paths with Reaktor, Kyma & such. Some of their
factory setups openly warn "this might blow your speakers". And
indeed, with some, there is no telling what the next (MIDI) key press
will give you, things can change from violin to jet engine in a
heartbeat.

But there are also the sound level inconsistencies in mainstream
programs... patch 34 sounds normal, patch 35 tears the walls off.
Sure, it's a problem only the first time, but so far I had, like, a
thousand of such "first times". I go through a lot of stuff. My Kore 2
sound library is 6000+ sounds, all *hand-picked*, not a "buy DVD,
install 10,000 iffy sounds in an hour" deal.

[Mike Rivers]

Keoki wrote:

> I *am* talking about the Mute button on my QWERTY Mac keyboard.
> Not sure about other soundcards, but the M-Audio 2496 ignores it for
> sure.

If it's any consolation, I have a notebook computer that has
a Mute key that works with the internal sound card, but
nothing else. It's no big deal, though, because I can never
remember which is the Mute button.

I think you need to practice safe speaker - keep the volume
low until you know what's going to happen. Or buy yourself a
pot-in-a-box and keep it handy. The nicest one, physically,
that I've seen (and I have one, but only because they gave
it to me) is the Level Pilot from t.c. electronic. It's
about the size of a demitasse cup and has XLR ins and outs
at the end of a reasonably long cable. Of course it seems
like it's overpriced ($80 through Amazon is about as good as
it gets), but you probably aren't going to build one, but
you could.

http://www.tcelectronic.com/levelpilot.asp


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

[philicorda[_9_]]

On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 13:13:02 -0700, Keoki wrote:

> Hello Mike,
>
> I *am* talking about the Mute button on my QWERTY Mac keyboard. Not sure
> about other soundcards, but the M-Audio 2496 ignores it for sure.
>
> What am I doing that I risk my speakers? For one, exploring less-
> threaded synthesis paths with Reaktor, Kyma & such. Some of their
> factory setups openly warn "this might blow your speakers". And indeed,
> with some, there is no telling what the next (MIDI) key press will give
> you, things can change from violin to jet engine in a heartbeat.

Why not write a patch in Reaktor that just normally passes audio, but
mutes for 10 seconds if it detects a few milliseconds of full scale
noise? You could put it as an insert on the master bus of your DAW
software.

I have not used Reaktor for a while, but I seem to remember that you
could run separate instances of it as plugins. I'm sure this would
operate faster than scrambling for a button.

>
> But there are also the sound level inconsistencies in mainstream
> programs... patch 34 sounds normal, patch 35 tears the walls off. Sure,
> it's a problem only the first time, but so far I had, like, a thousand
> of such "first times". I go through a lot of stuff. My Kore 2 sound
> library is 6000+ sounds, all *hand-picked*, not a "buy DVD, install
> 10,000 iffy sounds in an hour" deal.

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 14:07:40 GMT, philicorda
> wrote:

>Why not write a patch in Reaktor that just normally passes audio, but
>mutes for 10 seconds if it detects a few milliseconds of full scale
>noise? You could put it as an insert on the master bus of your DAW
>software.

Unfortunately, a common cause (perhaps the most common cause) of wild
digital oscillation (if that's not a contradiction in terms:-) is a
confused or crashed soundcard. No software switch can protect you
from that.

[philicorda[_9_]]

On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 17:15:02 +0100, Laurence Payne wrote:

> On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 14:07:40 GMT, philicorda >
> wrote:
>
>>Why not write a patch in Reaktor that just normally passes audio, but
>>mutes for 10 seconds if it detects a few milliseconds of full scale
>>noise? You could put it as an insert on the master bus of your DAW
>>software.
>
> Unfortunately, a common cause (perhaps the most common cause) of wild
> digital oscillation (if that's not a contradiction in terms:-) is a
> confused or crashed soundcard. No software switch can protect you from
> that.

The original poster, Keoki, says the problem is a software synth patch
going nuts. So in this case, a software solution is possible.

I don't think I have ever had a driver or soundcard crash and cause full
scale output of noise. Music software and plugins are much more
unpredictable. I have been present once where Nuendo went crazy and
destroyed the tweeters in a pair of NS10s. They lasted about four
seconds, and I heard the sound suddenly go from white to pinkish noise as
the tweeters died. :) We had the sound card plugged directly into a quad
405 with no volume controls. It was such a loud and unpleasant noise that
everyone was stunned for a few seconds and could not switch the amp off
in time.

Since then I always have some kind of analog volume control between a
computer and a power amp.

[Keoki]

On Jul 31, 6:15*am, Laurence Payne > wrote:
> On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 14:07:40 GMT, philicorda
>
> > wrote:
> Unfortunately, a common cause (perhaps the most common cause) of wild
> digital oscillation (if that's not a contradiction in terms:-) is a
> confused or crashed soundcard. *No software switch can protect you
> from that.

I wonder if this is the reason why some software instruments erupt in
sonic mayhem once I hit their polyphony limit.

(Another reason for a Mute key that I didn't mention yet.)

[Keoki]

Hello Mike,

The Level Pilot looks promising, I'm already pondering where to insert
it on my signal chain.

I run several computers simultaneously, so having one Level Pilot for
each CPU could easily turn a muting attempt into a whack-a-mole
game :-) but perhaps I could patch the Level Pilot into the inserts on
my mixer's main instead (or a yet-unused subgroup, if I start routing
everything into it effective today)

This would be probably even better there since not only my computers
exhibit extreme auto volume fluctuations sometimes, certain keyboards
do it too. (Eg, my Korg Trinity V3 Pro 88 plays regular sounds at a
normal level, and patches using the MOSS card crazy-loud.)

Yepp, I think we found the solution. $80 is two orders of magnitude
cheaper than buying $1695 MH I/O soundcards for all the computers.
Thank you all for your help

Keoki


On Jul 31, 12:59*am, Mike Rivers > wrote:

> I think you need to practice safe speaker - keep the volume
> low until you know what's going to happen. Or buy yourself a
> pot-in-a-box and keep it handy. The nicest one, physically,
> that I've seen (and I have one, but only because they gave
> it to me) is the Level Pilot from t.c. electronic. It's
> about the size of a demitasse cup and has XLR ins and outs
> at the end of a reasonably long cable. Of course it seems
> like it's overpriced ($80 through Amazon is about as good as
> it gets), but you probably aren't going to build one, but
> you could.

[Keoki]

Indeed. I'll heed Mike's (and your) advice and get a TC Electronic
Level Pilot.
I'll insert it after the mixer's summing stage, so it controls all
gear.


On Jul 29, 1:19*pm, Laurence Payne > wrote:
> Oh, for goodness sake! *If a mute button under your fingers is so
> vital to you, wire up a switch and put it next to your keyboard.

[Mike Rivers]

Keoki wrote:

> The Level Pilot looks promising, I'm already pondering where to insert
> it on my signal chain.

How about right ahead of your amplifier? That way, you'll
have control over whatever is going to the speakers. If
you're running everything through a mixer and then to the
amplifier, the place to put it is between the mixer output
and amplifier input. You could also put it in the main bus
inserts, but there's no real advantage to that.



--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Keoki wrote:

>> Though the keyboard mute button is useful, there are other ways of
>> arranging audio cut-off.

> Sure, the master fader on my mixer's end. 5 seconds from sitting
> position at my favorite keyboard. (Must navigate around several
> things.)
> By then the speakers (and my hearing) could be long gone.

The gain structure of your monitoring setup appears to need a rethinking.
Life is a lot simpler with a fixed attenuator - say 12 to 20 dB - on the
input of the poweramp so that ill things just do not happen. In case you
possess average household clumsiness a hot-plug/unplug safe system is nice.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Keoki]

An interesting post-facto discovery:

OSX's Audio MIDI Setup has a little known feature called "aggregate
device" It lets the user define and use all available soundcards
simultaneously as one virtual soundcard with so many inputs and
outputs.

So I grouped my Mac's built-in soundcard with the M-Audio 2496 into an
"aggregate device"; I got 6 audio outputs as the result. Outputs 1-2
(the built-in soundcard) *do* respond to the mute key still, only the
others (provided by the 2496) don't. Now if I can only figure out how
to route an Ableton Live track (with sync signal audio) directly to
outputs 3-4, I'll be all set. :-)