B&W 801 series 2 crossover

[guy25]

I have a pair of B&W 801 series 2 and one speaker's crossover over load and burned (a round orange coil) is this repair able? any information will be very appreciates. I'm living in Chicago. Thanks in advance, guy25

[Trevor Wilson[_3_]]

guy25 wrote:
> I have a pair of B&W 801 series 2 and one speaker's crossover over
> load and burned (a round orange coil) is this repair able? any
> information will be very appreciates. I'm living in Chicago. Thanks
> in advance, guy25

**Of course it's repairable. I can't help you with the value of the part,
but it would be simple enough to examine the other speaker and measure the
good part.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

[Mr.T]

"Trevor Wilson" > wrote in message
...
> guy25 wrote:
> > I have a pair of B&W 801 series 2 and one speaker's crossover over
> > load and burned (a round orange coil) is this repair able? any
> > information will be very appreciates. I'm living in Chicago. Thanks
> > in advance, guy25

Have you checked the driver as well?


> **Of course it's repairable. I can't help you with the value of the part,
> but it would be simple enough to examine the other speaker and measure the
> good part.

Sure, if he can actually measure the inductance, which is doubtful if he had
to ask the question in the first place. (wire gauge and coil resistance is
easier of course)
May be easier just to contact B&W or their local agent for spares?


MrT.

[geoff]

guy25 wrote:
> I have a pair of B&W 801 series 2 and one speaker's crossover over
> load and burned (a round orange coil) is this repair able? any
> information will be very appreciates. I'm living in Chicago. Thanks
> in advance, guy25

No , it's not repairable. Send the speakers to me.

geoff

[geoff]

geoff wrote:
> guy25 wrote:
>> I have a pair of B&W 801 series 2 and one speaker's crossover over
>> load and burned (a round orange coil) is this repair able? any
>> information will be very appreciates. I'm living in Chicago. Thanks
>> in advance, guy25
>
> No , it's not repairable. Send the speakers to me.
>
> geoff

Actually, of course it is repairable. But given the value of the speakers
would contact B&W for a local service agent, and a source of the genuine
spare part.

geoff

[guy25]

geoff wrote:
> guy25 wrote:
>> I have a pair of B&W 801 series 2 and one speaker's crossover over
>> load and burned (a round orange coil) is this repair able? any
>> information will be very appreciates. I'm living in Chicago. Thanks
>> in advance, guy25
>
> No , it's not repairable. Send the speakers to me.
>
> geoff

Actually, of course it is repairable. But given the value of the speakers
would contact B&W for a local service agent, and a source of the genuine
spare part.

geoff

First of all I'd like to thanks everybody in this forum so friendly and helpful. I removed the L1 coil and inspected, it turn out O.K but the 3 Ceramic resistor next to it was got over heated. It's: R1=0R47-7W , R3=5R6-7W and R4=8R2-7W. Please take a look at the speaker diagram. I'm sorry, can not paste the Diagram here. I have been trying Google for these resistor with out success. Does anybody here know where to buy it please let me know. Thanks again, Guy25

[Mr.T]

"guy25" > wrote in message
...
> First of all I'd like to thanks everybody in this forum so friendly and
> helpful. I removed the L1 coil and inspected, it turn out O.K but the 3
> Ceramic resistor next to it was got over heated. It's: R1=0R47-7W ,
> R3=5R6-7W and R4=8R2-7W. Please take a look at the speaker diagram. I'm
> sorry, can not paste the Diagram here. I have been trying Google for
> these resistor with out success. Does anybody here know where to buy it
> please let me know. Thanks again, Guy25

You'd certainly have trouble finding generic 7 Watt resistors, but 10 Watt
parts should be readily available, and less likely to fail again.
In case you don't already know, those are 0.47ohm, 5.6 ohm and 8.2 ohm, and
are common values.

MrT.

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Mr.T wrote:

> You'd certainly have trouble finding generic 7 Watt resistors, but 10
> Watt parts should be readily available, and less likely to fail again.

hmm ... yes, but resistors are cheaper than loudspeaker-units, so perhaps it
is worth making an extra effort to find some.

> In case you don't already know, those are 0.47ohm, 5.6 ohm and 8.2
> ohm, and are common values.

A wise and helpful translation.

> MrT

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[guy25]

You are right Peter.

one of authorize B&W technician here in Chicago gave me a quote that crossover replacement is $900/ea is too much for me.

Just found-out the http://www.uk.farnell.com had these resistor but still wait respond from them to see either they're ship to US or not.

Best regard, Jimmy Pham

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

guy25 wrote:

> You are right Peter.

> one of authorize B&W technician here in Chicago gave me a quote that
> crossover replacement is $900/ea is too much for me.

You missed my point with a margen of 2 3/4 furlong: my point is that the
resistor powerhandling is chosen so as to make the resistor protect the
loudspeaker unit(s) that get their signal through it.

> Just found-out the http://www.uk.farnell.com had these resistor but
> still wait respond from them to see either they're ship to US or not.

There's also digikey.com, they're on your side of the pond.

> Best regard, Jimmy Pham

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[David Nebenzahl]

On 5/16/2010 11:17 AM Peter Larsen spake thus:

> guy25 wrote:
>
>> You are right Peter.
>
>> one of authorize B&W technician here in Chicago gave me a quote that
>> crossover replacement is $900/ea is too much for me.
>
> You missed my point with a margen of 2 3/4 furlong: my point is that the
> resistor powerhandling is chosen so as to make the resistor protect the
> loudspeaker unit(s) that get their signal through it.

I don't buy that at all. Since when does a resistor, even of a much
lower value than the speaker it's in series with, "protect" a speaker?
It's not a fuse; the resistor is just going to generate heat,
potentially lots of it, and possibly char the surrounding cabinetry
before going "poof".

If one wanted to protect a speaker, a fuse would be the way to do it,
not a lower-wattage resistor.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

[David Nebenzahl]

On 5/16/2010 5:40 AM guy25 spake thus:

> one of authorize B&W technician here in Chicago gave me a quote that
> crossover replacement is $900/ea is too much for me.

$900????!?!?!? WTF?!?!?

> Just found-out the http://www.uk.farnell.com had these resistor but
> still wait respond from them to see either they're ship to US or not.

Since you're in the US, *forget* Farnell. There's nothing special about
those resistors, just garden-variety power resistors.

The places you ought to be checking are Digikey, Mouser, and Jameco, all
right here in the USofA. You can easily find them (I'd just type their
name directly into the address field, like digikey.com, rather than
doing a Google search). If I have time later I can look for those
resistors, but you should be able to find them easily at any of these
places.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

[Mr.T]

"Peter Larsen" > wrote in message
k...
> > You'd certainly have trouble finding generic 7 Watt resistors, but 10
> > Watt parts should be readily available, and less likely to fail again.
>
> hmm ... yes, but resistors are cheaper than loudspeaker-units, so perhaps
it
> is worth making an extra effort to find some.

Why would you make an effort to find a lower rated part unless the 10W ones
wont fit?

MrT.

[Mr.T]

"Peter Larsen" > wrote in message
k...
> You missed my point with a margen of 2 3/4 furlong: my point is that the
> resistor powerhandling is chosen so as to make the resistor protect the
> loudspeaker unit(s) that get their signal through it.

Nope, that's what poly-switches, or even fuses are for.

MrT.

[David Nebenzahl]

On 5/16/2010 6:23 PM Mr.T spake thus:

> "Peter Larsen" > wrote in message
> k...
>
>>> You'd certainly have trouble finding generic 7 Watt resistors, but 10
>>> Watt parts should be readily available, and less likely to fail again.
>>
>> hmm ... yes, but resistors are cheaper than loudspeaker-units, so
>> perhaps it is worth making an extra effort to find some.
>
> Why would you make an effort to find a lower rated part unless the 10W ones
> wont fit?

He thinks they work like fuses.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

David Nebenzahl wrote:

>> Why would you make an effort to find a lower rated part unless the
>> 10W ones wont fit?

> He thinks they work like fuses.

No David, it failed because it actually acted like a fuse. And it is cheaper
that the resistor in series with the loudspeaker unit should fail and
thereby protect the loudspeaker unit than vice versa.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Arny Krueger]

"David Nebenzahl" > wrote in message
.com
> On 5/16/2010 11:17 AM Peter Larsen spake thus:

>> You missed my point with a margen of 2 3/4 furlong: my
>> point is that the resistor powerhandling is chosen so as
>> to make the resistor protect the loudspeaker unit(s)
>> that get their signal through it.

> I don't buy that at all. Since when does a resistor, even
> of a much lower value than the speaker it's in series
> with, "protect" a speaker? It's not a fuse; the resistor
> is just going to generate heat, potentially lots of it,
> and possibly char the surrounding cabinetry before going
> "poof".

There are many instances of resistors being used for fuses - for example
resistors in the 0.1 to 10 ohm range are often used this way. However, the
intent is usually rather gross - to prevent a fire or other casualty loss.
Obviously, if a designer wants a well-calibrated fuse, they use a fuse. They
just cost more money than a small resistor.

I'm not familiar with resistors in the 5-10 watt range being used this way.
Usually, internal speaker protection is provided by fuses, light bulbs, or
other non-linear resisive devices.

> If one wanted to protect a speaker, a fuse would be the
> way to do it, not a lower-wattage resistor.

Agreed.

When a reistor is used as a fuse, it seems unlikely that using a resistor
with only 33% higher wattage would be a deal breaker.

[guy25]

;909271']David Nebenzahl wrote:

>> Why would you make an effort to find a lower rated part unless the
>> 10W ones wont fit?

> He thinks they work like fuses.

No David, it failed because it actually acted like a fuse. And it is cheaper
that the resistor in series with the loudspeaker unit should fail and
thereby protect the loudspeaker unit than vice versa.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

Thanks you all. I'm a newbie,actually no nothing about these (very basic). all opinion are very welcome. so please tell me what to do is the best.

I have question for you guy: can I replace the 7W with 10W (the digitkey have resistor available) is it going to work?

If it does work. does it affected the sound stream. All original still in the speaker and have a sweet sound. If I can I really do not want to have the sound different in my system If I still have choice.

please give the advice. I'm still trying to get the replacement for these resistor and will post the result whenever it done. Thanks again and have good day to all. Jimmy Pham

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Dick Pierce wrote:

> No, it isn't.

Thank you for explaining how I was wrong!

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[David Nebenzahl]

On 5/17/2010 1:38 AM Peter Larsen spake thus:

> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>
>>> Why would you make an effort to find a lower rated part unless the
>>> 10W ones wont fit?
>
>> He thinks they work like fuses.
>
> No David, it failed because it actually acted like a fuse. And it is cheaper
> that the resistor in series with the loudspeaker unit should fail and
> thereby protect the loudspeaker unit than vice versa.

Except that as Dick Pierce has elegantly explained it, the resistor will
*not* actually protect the speaker; in fact, it's far likelier that
*both* the resistor and one or more drivers will be damaged
simultaneously in the event of excessive power applied to the speaker unit.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

[Mr.T]

"Peter Larsen" > wrote in message
k...
> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>
> >> Why would you make an effort to find a lower rated part unless the
> >> 10W ones wont fit?
>
> > He thinks they work like fuses.
>
> No David, it failed because it actually acted like a fuse. And it is
cheaper
> that the resistor in series with the loudspeaker unit should fail and
> thereby protect the loudspeaker unit than vice versa.

Sure, but I'd call that extremely lucky. A cheap polyswitch would do a far
better job at protecting the driver.

MrT.

[guy25]

Thanks Peter,

I talk to digikey on the phone but they do not carried 7W only 10W in stock. Don't you think it works? there also some on ebay but I'm not so sure about quality. Please give me your opinion. Thanks again, Jimmy

[David Nebenzahl]

On 5/17/2010 8:46 PM guy25 spake thus:

> I talk to digikey on the phone but they do not carried 7W only 10W in
> stock. Don't you think it works? there also some on ebay but I'm not so
> sure about quality. Please give me your opinion. Thanks again, Jimmy

1. Yes, it will work. Power dissipation has nothing to do with it
"working" or not; it just indicates how much power you can run through
it without damaging it. A 10W resistor resists just like a 7W resistor.

2. Quality, schmality. It's a goddamn *resistor*, for chrissakes.
(Unless you're one of those audiophool suckers who falls for gold-plated
connectors, monster cables and such.) Makes no difference.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

[geoff]

David Nebenzahl wrote:
> On 5/17/2010 8:46 PM guy25 spake thus:
>
>> I talk to digikey on the phone but they do not carried 7W only 10W in
>> stock. Don't you think it works? there also some on ebay but I'm not
>> so sure about quality. Please give me your opinion. Thanks again,
>> Jimmy
>
> 1. Yes, it will work. Power dissipation has nothing to do with it
> "working" or not; it just indicates how much power you can run through
> it without damaging it. A 10W resistor resists just like a 7W
> resistor.
> 2. Quality, schmality. It's a goddamn *resistor*, for chrissakes.
> (Unless you're one of those audiophool suckers who falls for
> gold-plated connectors, monster cables and such.) Makes no difference.

Well actually it is likely to also be an inductor. But probably
insignificantly so.

geoff

[geoff]

Dick Pierce wrote:
>
> Just buy the damned 10 watt resistors and be done
> with it.

If it's anything like my KEF Reference speakers (and it should be) , it is
not JUST a 10W resistor.
It is likely to be of a specifically selected value from within the normal
tolerance band, to enable the speaker to comply to it's specifications. KEF
tested and matched up Rs Cs and drivers into bins to make sets that gave
the correct crossover frequencies and attenuations.

I'd be inclined to test the actual value of it's buddy in the adjacent
speaker, and match the resistance to within 1% or so.

We are talking about B&W Nautilus range speaker IIRC, so worth the effort.

geoff

[David Nebenzahl]

On 5/18/2010 1:55 PM geoff spake thus:

> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>
>> On 5/17/2010 8:46 PM guy25 spake thus:
>>
>>> I talk to digikey on the phone but they do not carried 7W only 10W in
>>> stock. Don't you think it works? there also some on ebay but I'm not
>>> so sure about quality. Please give me your opinion. Thanks again,
>>> Jimmy
>>
>> 1. Yes, it will work. Power dissipation has nothing to do with it
>> "working" or not; it just indicates how much power you can run through
>> it without damaging it. A 10W resistor resists just like a 7W
>> resistor.
>> 2. Quality, schmality. It's a goddamn *resistor*, for chrissakes.
>> (Unless you're one of those audiophool suckers who falls for
>> gold-plated connectors, monster cables and such.) Makes no difference.
>
> Well actually it is likely to also be an inductor. But probably
> insignificantly so.

So it makes no *detectable* difference. Glad we settled that.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

[David Nebenzahl]

On 5/18/2010 2:02 PM geoff spake thus:

> Dick Pierce wrote:
>
>> Just buy the damned 10 watt resistors and be done
>> with it.
>
> If it's anything like my KEF Reference speakers (and it should be) , it is
> not JUST a 10W resistor.
> It is likely to be of a specifically selected value from within the normal
> tolerance band, to enable the speaker to comply to it's specifications. KEF
> tested and matched up Rs Cs and drivers into bins to make sets that gave
> the correct crossover frequencies and attenuations.
>
> I'd be inclined to test the actual value of it's buddy in the adjacent
> speaker, and match the resistance to within 1% or so.

Do you really think even a 10% deviation from stated value would make
any real difference in the sound, practically speaking?


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

[Paul G.]

On Tue, 18 May 2010 16:25:08 -0400, Dick Pierce
> wrote:

>guy25 wrote:
>> Thanks Peter,
>>
>> I talk to digikey on the phone but they do not carried 7W only 10W in
>> stock. Don't you think it works?
>
>Like others have said several times, YES, it will work.
>
>Increasing the wattage for 7 to 10 watts, or from 7 to
>15 watts, or to 20 or 50 or 100 watts WILL WORK FINE.
>
>The wattage of the resistor WILL NOT MAKE A DIFFERENCE:
>
>1. If everytging else in the speaker is working fine,
> a 10 watts resistor will sound identical to a 7
> watt speaker.
>
>2. If, in the process of blowing up the 7 watt resistor,
> you blew up something else (which is possible, maybe
> even likely), then replacing the 7 watt with a 10 watt
> will ALSO make the speaker sound identical, becasue
> it's just as broken with a 7 watt resistor as with a
> 10 watt.
>
> > there also some on ebay but I'm not so
>> sure about quality. Please give me your opinion.
>
>My opinion is that you're WAY overthinking this.
>
>Just buy the damned 10 watt resistors and be done
>with it.


There is a remote chance it is a "fusible resistor", I've replaced
these things on older TV sets. They are used extensively in the
electronics industry, especially where temporary large surge currents
are tolerated. If that were the case, you would be required to replace
it with a similiar resistor of the same power rating. 0.47 ohms is a
popular value for a fusible resistor.
They DO have a compartively long time to blow compared to a fuse,
since the resistor must heat up to the point where the fusible element
breaks. In that respect they would be useful in a speaker, since you
could allow large transients, and the resistor would open up before
the voice coil would be damaged.
They were not meant as a consumer replacable item, since the trauma
that caused the resistor to blow usually indicated some circuit
problem or gross abuse.
My guess is that such a low value of resistance would not have much
effect on the audio performance (being swamped out by the voice coil
resistance), and might give more credence to its function as a slow
fuse.
If it is a fusible resistor, it is probably chosen for a specific
thermal time constant. It would not be wise to replace it with an
ordinary resistor, or fusible one of unknown characteristic.

Paul G.

[Mr.T]

"Dick Pierce" > wrote in message
...
> My opinion is that you're WAY overthinking this.

No he doesn't seem to be *thinking* at all.

> Just buy the damned 10 watt resistors and be done
> with it.

As I said in my original reply, only reason not to is if it doesn't fit,
which is unlikely in a speaker.
And I also said he should check the drivers, which he still doesn't appear
to have done yet.

Either he is totally out of his depth and should get someone to fix it for
him, or he's just a troll.

MrT.

[Mr.T]

"geoff" > wrote in message
...
> Dick Pierce wrote:
> >
> > Just buy the damned 10 watt resistors and be done
> > with it.
>
> If it's anything like my KEF Reference speakers (and it should be) , it is
> not JUST a 10W resistor.
> It is likely to be of a specifically selected value from within the normal
> tolerance band, to enable the speaker to comply to it's specifications.
KEF
> tested and matched up Rs Cs and drivers into bins to make sets that gave
> the correct crossover frequencies and attenuations.
>
> I'd be inclined to test the actual value of it's buddy in the adjacent
> speaker, and match the resistance to within 1% or so.


Which contradicts your premise since the drivers are different and the
resistors would have to be matched to THAT driver IF you think it's THAT
critical.
The only way would be to properly test it, which is obviously beyond the OP.

MrT.

[David Nebenzahl]

On 5/18/2010 9:26 PM Mr.T spake thus:

> "Dick Pierce" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Just buy the damned 10 watt resistors and be done
>> with it.
>
> As I said in my original reply, only reason not to is if it doesn't fit,
> which is unlikely in a speaker.
> And I also said he should check the drivers, which he still doesn't appear
> to have done yet.
>
> Either he is totally out of his depth and should get someone to fix it for
> him, or he's just a troll.

As usual, you seem to want to jump to conclusions here. While the OP is
obviously not an audio expert, I'm sure he's quite capable of replacing
a lousy resistor in a speaker crossover. Doesn't take a rocket surgeon
to do that.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

[Mr.T]

"David Nebenzahl" > wrote in message
.com...
> > Either he is totally out of his depth and should get someone to fix it
for
> > him, or he's just a troll.
>
> As usual, you seem to want to jump to conclusions here. While the OP is
> obviously not an audio expert, I'm sure he's quite capable of replacing
> a lousy resistor in a speaker crossover. Doesn't take a rocket surgeon
> to do that.

Exactly, which is why I say someone who keeps asking the sort of questions
he has, when told ages ago to simply buy readily available 10W items, is
surely out of his depth at the very least. And we still don't know if the
driver is even OK!

Perhaps you are the one jumping to conclusions believing that everyone can
in fact perform simple tasks without a lot of handholding. The OP has shown
he at least requires the latter.

MrT.

[David Nebenzahl]

On 5/19/2010 12:40 AM Mr.T spake thus:

> "David Nebenzahl" > wrote in message
> .com...
>
>>> Either he is totally out of his depth and should get someone to
>>> fix it for him, or he's just a troll.
>>
>> As usual, you seem to want to jump to conclusions here. While the OP is
>> obviously not an audio expert, I'm sure he's quite capable of replacing
>> a lousy resistor in a speaker crossover. Doesn't take a rocket surgeon
>> to do that.
>
> Exactly, which is why I say someone who keeps asking the sort of questions
> he has, when told ages ago to simply buy readily available 10W items, is
> surely out of his depth at the very least. And we still don't know if the
> driver is even OK!
>
> Perhaps you are the one jumping to conclusions believing that everyone can
> in fact perform simple tasks without a lot of handholding. The OP has shown
> he at least requires the latter.

The question isn't really whether the O.P. can handle the repair, but
whether they're ready to quit overthinking the problem and just order
the damned resistor. That seems to be their problem.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

[GregS[_3_]]

In article >, David Nebenzahl > wrote:
>On 5/18/2010 1:55 PM geoff spake thus:
>
>> David Nebenzahl wrote:
> >
>>> On 5/17/2010 8:46 PM guy25 spake thus:
>>>
>>>> I talk to digikey on the phone but they do not carried 7W only 10W in
>>>> stock. Don't you think it works? there also some on ebay but I'm not
>>>> so sure about quality. Please give me your opinion. Thanks again,
>>>> Jimmy
>>>
>>> 1. Yes, it will work. Power dissipation has nothing to do with it
>>> "working" or not; it just indicates how much power you can run through
>>> it without damaging it. A 10W resistor resists just like a 7W
>>> resistor.
>>> 2. Quality, schmality. It's a goddamn *resistor*, for chrissakes.
>>> (Unless you're one of those audiophool suckers who falls for
>>> gold-plated connectors, monster cables and such.) Makes no difference.
>>
>> Well actually it is likely to also be an inductor. But probably
>> insignificantly so.
>
>So it makes no *detectable* difference. Glad we settled that.


I'm sure it can be measured, thus detected.

greg

[GregS[_3_]]

In article >, David Nebenzahl > wrote:
>On 5/16/2010 5:40 AM guy25 spake thus:
>
>> one of authorize B&W technician here in Chicago gave me a quote that
>> crossover replacement is $900/ea is too much for me.
>
>$900????!?!?!? WTF?!?!?
>
>> Just found-out the http://www.uk.farnell.com had these resistor but
>> still wait respond from them to see either they're ship to US or not.
>
>Since you're in the US, *forget* Farnell. There's nothing special about
>those resistors, just garden-variety power resistors.
>
>The places you ought to be checking are Digikey, Mouser, and Jameco, all
>right here in the USofA. You can easily find them (I'd just type their
>name directly into the address field, like digikey.com, rather than
>doing a Google search). If I have time later I can look for those
>resistors, but you should be able to find them easily at any of these
>places.
>
>

You forgot, Allied, Newark(who is owned by Farnell, and parts can be ordered from any, Farnell, MCM, or Newark),
For unusual power resistors, I would check the surplus houses, or buy it from the maufacturer.

I tried Farnell parametric search and its slow, but it does look like some values there.
If you order throgh Newark it will still have a time delay.

greg

[GregS[_3_]]

In article >, "Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote:
>
>"Peter Larsen" > wrote in message
k...
>> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>>
>> >> Why would you make an effort to find a lower rated part unless the
>> >> 10W ones wont fit?
>>
>> > He thinks they work like fuses.
>>
>> No David, it failed because it actually acted like a fuse. And it is
>cheaper
>> that the resistor in series with the loudspeaker unit should fail and
>> thereby protect the loudspeaker unit than vice versa.
>
>Sure, but I'd call that extremely lucky. A cheap polyswitch would do a far
>better job at protecting the driver.
>
>MrT.

We have no idea of what the speaker did without looking and testing all components.
I don't think the OP will do this, and he will likely still have problems.

When its all said and done, I myself would listen to
the pair with pink noise.

I worked a little with poly switches. You can get both negative and positive devices.
It critical to know the the trip current of the device and also the exact
Z of the drivers. They are tricky, are not foolproof, and can also interefere the
performance.

I have seen sand power resistors get awfull looking yet still work.
I would rather use fire proof resistors at times than carbon or film resistors,
which thae later seem to be in abundance in my parts bin.

greg

[David Nebenzahl]

On 5/19/2010 10:56 AM GregS spake thus:

> In article >, David
> Nebenzahl > wrote:
>
>> On 5/18/2010 1:55 PM geoff spake thus:
>>
>>> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/17/2010 8:46 PM guy25 spake thus:
>>>>
>>>>> I talk to digikey on the phone but they do not carried 7W only 10W in
>>>>> stock. Don't you think it works? there also some on ebay but I'm not
>>>>> so sure about quality. Please give me your opinion. Thanks again,
>>>>
>>>> 1. Yes, it will work. Power dissipation has nothing to do with it
>>>> "working" or not; it just indicates how much power you can run through
>>>> it without damaging it. A 10W resistor resists just like a 7W
>>>> resistor.
>>>> 2. Quality, schmality. It's a goddamn *resistor*, for chrissakes.
>>>> (Unless you're one of those audiophool suckers who falls for
>>>> gold-plated connectors, monster cables and such.) Makes no difference.
>>>
>>> Well actually it is likely to also be an inductor. But probably
>>> insignificantly so.
>>
>> So it makes no *detectable* difference. Glad we settled that.
>
> I'm sure it can be measured, thus detected.

So this is what, a "golden ears" observation?

Come on, get real. I'm starting to think that the problem in this thread
isn't that the O.P. is overthinking things, as Dick Pierce has surmised
(or that he's just an idiot, per Meat Plow's usual conclusion). Well, if
he is full of doubt and uncertainty, it's because people like you keep
posting things that make him believe that he can't just replace the
damned resistor with an ordinary power resistor and be done with it. So
thanks for muddying the waters here.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

[geoff]

David Nebenzahl wrote:
> On 5/18/2010 2:02 PM geoff spake thus:
>
>> Dick Pierce wrote:
>>
>>> Just buy the damned 10 watt resistors and be done
>>> with it.
>>
>> If it's anything like my KEF Reference speakers (and it should be) ,
>> it is not JUST a 10W resistor.
>> It is likely to be of a specifically selected value from within the
>> normal tolerance band, to enable the speaker to comply to it's
>> specifications. KEF tested and matched up Rs Cs and drivers into
>> bins to make sets that gave the correct crossover frequencies and
>> attenuations. I'd be inclined to test the actual value of it's buddy in
>> the
>> adjacent speaker, and match the resistance to within 1% or so.
>
> Do you really think even a 10% deviation from stated value would make
> any real difference in the sound, practically speaking?

Yep, if your chain, environment, and listening skills are up to it.

We are talking about speaker that cost over $10K here, so I think it would
be sacrilege to throw in something that devalues them in any way.

geoff

[geoff]

Dick Pierce wrote:
>
>> We are talking about B&W Nautilus range speaker IIRC.
>
> No, we are not. He stated they are B&W 801 series 2, just
> like the thread title says.

OK, similar quality, but older. Why not put the right part in ? And not
talking about wattage or inductance.

geoff

[geoff]

Mr.T wrote:
>> adjacent speaker, and match the resistance to within 1% or so.
>
>
> Which contradicts your premise since the drivers are different and the
> resistors would have to be matched to THAT driver IF you think it's
> THAT critical.
> The only way would be to properly test it, which is obviously beyond
> the OP.

The original pair of speakers would be matched to around 0.5dB. Why not do
it right, or get somebody competent to do it ?

geoff

[geoff]

David Nebenzahl wrote:

> Come on, get real. I'm starting to think that the problem in this
> thread isn't that the O.P. is overthinking things, as Dick Pierce has
> surmised (or that he's just an idiot, per Meat Plow's usual
> conclusion). Well, if he is full of doubt and uncertainty, it's
> because people like you keep posting things that make him believe
> that he can't just replace the damned resistor with an ordinary power
> resistor and be done with it. So thanks for muddying the waters here.

My way of 'real' thinking is that if you have a ZRolls Royce, would you bung
in any old rubber belt, or get either the proper one, or one that fitted
exactly ?

We are not talking about fixing a pair of Auratones here....

geoff

[Arny Krueger]

"geoff" > wrote in message

> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>
>> Come on, get real. I'm starting to think that the
>> problem in this thread isn't that the O.P. is
>> overthinking things, as Dick Pierce has surmised (or
>> that he's just an idiot, per Meat Plow's usual
>> conclusion). Well, if he is full of doubt and
>> uncertainty, it's because people like you keep posting
>> things that make him believe that he can't just replace
>> the damned resistor with an ordinary power resistor and
>> be done with it. So thanks for muddying the waters here.
>
> My way of 'real' thinking is that if you have a ZRolls
> Royce, would you bung in any old rubber belt, or get
> either the proper one, or one that fitted exactly ?
>
> We are not talking about fixing a pair of Auratones
> here....

Ever look under the hood of a Rolls or other expensive car?

The belts appear to be the usual off-the-shelf products.

If a common good quality belt can last for 100,000 miles or more if properly
installed and inspected and perhaps re-adjusted infrequently, why would
these cars use or have anything else?

[guy25]

Thanks Paul G.

Just like you said. The speaker resistor was burned out cause my friend abuse My system (i have party at home). The resistor got over heat and burn before it damage the drive (fusible) that why I'm so careful when trying to match. I order some from Liberty Electronic Inc. in Miami, Florida with Matching Ohm and watt. After resistor replaced I'll let the forum know the result.

Once again I would like to express my sincerely thanks to everybody here have given out a lot of wonderful advice. But everybody have different understand, knowledge that's why people have their own opinion but why have to use hash word or be mad because the other have different opinion?
I'm bring this subject here cause I'm a new hopefully will learn some thing from pro. If I already know what it is why bother.

best regard, Jimmy P.

[Arny Krueger]

"geoff" > wrote in message


> We are talking about speaker that cost over $10K here, so
> I think it would be sacrilege to throw in something that
> devalues them in any way.

If you take that approach to its logical conclusion, you turn the whole
thing over to an authorized service facility.

I sense that anxiety, not reason is driving one side of the discussion.

The technical advice has been very good and very pragmatic, but it does not
seem to be meeting some people's psychic needs.

There's nothing wrong with spending money this way, if the anxiety or
concerns about local skills gets to be too much.

[Arny Krueger]

"geoff" > wrote in message

> Mr.T wrote:
>>> adjacent speaker, and match the resistance to within 1%
>>> or so.
>>
>>
>> Which contradicts your premise since the drivers are
>> different and the resistors would have to be matched to
>> THAT driver IF you think it's THAT critical.
>> The only way would be to properly test it, which is
>> obviously beyond the OP.
>
> The original pair of speakers would be matched to around
> 0.5dB. Why not do it right, or get somebody competent to
> do it ?

Given the natural acoustic variations in the room, this level of matching
while laudible, probably has very little practical value.

[David Nebenzahl]

On 5/20/2010 6:05 AM Arny Krueger spake thus:

> "geoff" > wrote in message
>
>
>> We are talking about speaker that cost over $10K here, so
>> I think it would be sacrilege to throw in something that
>> devalues them in any way.
>
> If you take that approach to its logical conclusion, you turn the whole
> thing over to an authorized service facility.
>
> I sense that anxiety, not reason is driving one side of the discussion.
>
> The technical advice has been very good and very pragmatic, but it does not
> seem to be meeting some people's psychic needs.
>
> There's nothing wrong with spending money this way, if the anxiety or
> concerns about local skills gets to be too much.

You're probably not wrong, and let's call things what they are here;
we're dealing with the hand-wringing anxiety of the under-informed
audiophool who lives in mortal fear of the degradation of sound from
their expen$ive equipment.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

[Arny Krueger]

"David Nebenzahl" > wrote in message
.com
> On 5/20/2010 6:05 AM Arny Krueger spake thus:
>
>> "geoff" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>>> We are talking about speaker that cost over $10K here,
>>> so I think it would be sacrilege to throw in something
>>> that devalues them in any way.
>>
>> If you take that approach to its logical conclusion, you
>> turn the whole thing over to an authorized service
>> facility. I sense that anxiety, not reason is driving one side of
>> the discussion. The technical advice has been very good and very
>> pragmatic, but it does not seem to be meeting some
>> people's psychic needs. There's nothing wrong with spending money this
>> way, if
>> the anxiety or concerns about local skills gets to be
>> too much.
>
> You're probably not wrong, and let's call things what
> they are here; we're dealing with the hand-wringing
> anxiety of the under-informed audiophool who lives in
> mortal fear of the degradation of sound from their
> expen$ive equipment.

Exactly.

[GregS[_3_]]

In article >, guy25 > wrote:
>
>Thanks Paul G.
>
>Just like you said. The speaker resistor was burned out cause my friend
>abuse My system (i have party at home). The resistor got over heat and
>burn before it damage the drive (fusible) that why I'm so careful when
>trying to match. I order some from Liberty Electronic Inc. in Miami,
>Florida with Matching Ohm and watt. After resistor replaced I'll let
>the forum know the result.
>
>Once again I would like to express my sincerely thanks to everybody
>here have given out a lot of wonderful advice. But everybody have
>different understand, knowledge that's why people have their own
>opinion but why have to use hash word or be mad because the other have
>different opinion?
>I'm bring this subject here cause I'm a new hopefully will learn some
>thing from pro. If I already know what it is why bother.
>
>best regard, Jimmy P.


A long series, but I'm shaking my head.

Try a pair of Cerwin Vega's for the party next time.


greg

[David Nebenzahl]

On 5/20/2010 6:03 AM guy25 spake thus:

> Just like you said. The speaker resistor was burned out cause my friend
> abuse My system (i have party at home). The resistor got over heat and
> burn before it damage the drive (fusible) that why I'm so careful when
> trying to match. I order some from Liberty Electronic Inc. in Miami,
> Florida with Matching Ohm and watt. After resistor replaced I'll let
> the forum know the result.

As has been pointed out by others with *far* more knowledge than I have,
that is *not* a fusible resistor. Your "friend" did indeed abuse your
speakers, and you're lucky if there wasn't damage to the drivers (which
were *not* protected by the resistor for reasons which have been
exhaustively explained elsewhere).

> Once again I would like to express my sincerely thanks to everybody
> here have given out a lot of wonderful advice. But everybody have
> different understand, knowledge that's why people have their own
> opinion but why have to use hash word or be mad because the other have
> different opinion?

Well, the reason there are sometimes harsh words is that some folk's
opinions *are* better than others. I'm not even referring to my own, but
to those of, say, Dick Pierce, who actually *knows* what he's talking
about, instead of speculating. (You'll find a lot of speculation on
Usenet, of course: comes with the territory.) So you need to adjust your
filters accordingly when reading replies here.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

[Arny Krueger]

"GregS" > wrote in message


>
> Try a pair of Cerwin Vega's for the party next time.

It seems like people who can afford $12,000 for speakers for serious music
lisetning, could also afford say $1200 for some good DJ or other live sound
speakers.

They'd get louder and cleaner, and they'd take the use without considering
it abuse. May I recommend a pair of Electrovoice ZX-4s?

[Mr.T]

"David Nebenzahl" > wrote in message
.com...
> The question isn't really whether the O.P. can handle the repair, but
> whether they're ready to quit overthinking the problem and just order
> the damned resistor. That seems to be their problem.

Well ordering the resistor doesn't help a lot if he can't "handle the
repair" does it?
Simply finding someone who CAN fix it for him is probably a far better
option in this case.

MrT.

[Mr.T]

"geoff" > wrote in message
...
> My way of 'real' thinking is that if you have a ZRolls Royce, would you
bung
> in any old rubber belt, or get either the proper one, or one that fitted
> exactly ?

I can assure you *many* Rollers have non standard parts fitted to them. Some
of which actually *improve* the vehicle.

>We are not talking about fixing a pair of Auratones here....

And we're not talking about the drivers either. B&W do not make their own
resistors after all.

MrT.

[Mr.T]

"GregS" > wrote in message
...
> We have no idea of what the speaker did without looking and testing all
components.
> I don't think the OP will do this, and he will likely still have problems.

As I and many others have pointed out frequently.

> I worked a little with poly switches. You can get both negative and
positive devices.
> It critical to know the the trip current of the device and also the exact
> Z of the drivers. They are tricky, are not foolproof, and can also
interefere the
> performance.

Sure, but are still far better at protecting a speaker than a 7W resistor!


> I have seen sand power resistors get awfull looking yet still work.
> I would rather use fire proof resistors at times than carbon or film
resistors,
> which thae later seem to be in abundance in my parts bin.

7W carbon or film resistors are not real common however. And I've never
heard of a "sand" resistor, perhaps you really mean the common wire wound
types?

MrT.

[Mr.T]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "David Nebenzahl" > wrote in message
> > You're probably not wrong, and let's call things what
> > they are here; we're dealing with the hand-wringing
> > anxiety of the under-informed audiophool who lives in
> > mortal fear of the degradation of sound from their
> > expen$ive equipment.
>
> Exactly.

But we still have no idea why he simply didn't take it to an authorised B&W
repair centre in the first place, rather than posting for information here
that he seems unable to use anyway!

MrT.

[Mr.T]

"geoff" > wrote in message
...
> >> adjacent speaker, and match the resistance to within 1% or so.
> >
> > Which contradicts your premise since the drivers are different and the
> > resistors would have to be matched to THAT driver IF you think it's
> > THAT critical.
> > The only way would be to properly test it, which is obviously beyond
> > the OP.
>
> The original pair of speakers would be matched to around 0.5dB.

Perhaps, but you do realise that does not require the resistors to be
matched to 1% in any case?
Not to mention the resistors may be selected to provide the matching rather
than the drivers, thus making your idea pointless.


>Why not do it right, or get somebody competent to do it ?

As I have said all along!

MrT.

[Arny Krueger]

"Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message


> 7W carbon or film resistors are not real common however.
> And I've never heard of a "sand" resistor, perhaps you
> really mean the common wire wound types?

In the 1950s or 1960s some ceramic-coated wirewound resistors were dipped
in sand before the coating was baked. Most of the sand adhered, but
sometimes some of it would rub off when handled or shipped.

I'm not sure why this was done.

[geoff]

Dick Pierce wrote:

> You can make any claim you want. But, for myself, having
> designed several hundred networks and having measured a
> few thousand, including specifically running component
> sensivity studies, I can say with a reasonable degree
> of certainty that your speculations come unaccompanied
> by any credible support.

OK so B&W (and KEF and.....) go to the trouble for nothing.

All I said was that as there is very little effort invloved, why not get the
right value part and stick it in ?

geoff

[David Nebenzahl]

On 5/23/2010 2:17 AM geoff spake thus:

> Dick Pierce wrote:
>
>> You can make any claim you want. But, for myself, having
>> designed several hundred networks and having measured a
>> few thousand, including specifically running component
>> sensivity studies, I can say with a reasonable degree
>> of certainty that your speculations come unaccompanied
>> by any credible support.
>
> OK so B&W (and KEF and.....) go to the trouble for nothing.
>
> All I said was that as there is very little effort invloved, why not get the
> right value part and stick it in ?

Absolutely, the OP *should* get the right value part and install it.
That's what we've been saying all along.

Meaning the right *resistance* value. Not necessarily the same
*wattage*. Since it's been pretty well established that this is NOT a
fusible resistor that can "protect" the drivers, there's no harm in
using a higher-power resistor.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

[geoff]

David Nebenzahl wrote:

>
> Meaning the right *resistance* value. Not necessarily the same
> *wattage*. Since it's been pretty well established that this is NOT a
> fusible resistor that can "protect" the drivers, there's no harm in
> using a higher-power resistor.

Naa, Dick suggests indirectly that (say) a cap +10% and/or a resistor -10%
won't compromise any paramter of a crossover design. But he'll say he never
suggested any such thing.

geoff

[dizzy]

Dick Pierce wrote:

>A couple of milliseconds at 5.5 amps,
>and a tweeter voice coil is smoke.
>
>Try dumping 5.5 amps into a woofer voice coil near resonance:
>the voice coil could be completely mashed aginst the back plate
>of the magnet within a fraction of a second.

Just curious - how many real, continuous Watts can a typical tweeter
(or woofer) voice-coil dissipate, without being damaged?

Apparently, a lot less than what their "music power" ratings might
suggest.

[dizzy]

GregS wrote:

>Try a pair of Cerwin Vega's for the party next time.

Or do what I do, when I really want to "let it rip" - switch in a
crossover that sends the lows to some big whomping subwoofers, saving
the mains from the abuse.

[geoff]

Dick Pierce wrote:
> geoff wrote:
>> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Meaning the right *resistance* value. Not necessarily the same
>>> *wattage*. Since it's been pretty well established that this is NOT
>>> a fusible resistor that can "protect" the drivers, there's no harm
>>> in using a higher-power resistor.
>>
>> Naa, Dick suggests indirectly that (say) a cap +10% and/or a
>> resistor -10% won't compromise any paramter of a crossover design. But
>> he'll say he never suggested any such thing.
>
> Probably because, in fact, he didn't say any such thing.
>
> What he DID say is that in particular circumstances, a
> wide tolerance in value will have negligable effects on
> actual performance,

Which applies for many things - so why bother to put any effort into making
anything good ?

> even to the point of being unmeasurable.

I think you could measure the differences in my example with a cheap
multimeter.

geoff

[David Nebenzahl]

On 5/30/2010 2:14 AM geoff spake thus:

> Dick Pierce wrote:
>
>> geoff wrote:
>>
>>> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>>>
>>>> Meaning the right *resistance* value. Not necessarily the same
>>>> *wattage*. Since it's been pretty well established that this is NOT
>>>> a fusible resistor that can "protect" the drivers, there's no harm
>>>> in using a higher-power resistor.
>>>
>>> Naa, Dick suggests indirectly that (say) a cap +10% and/or a
>>> resistor -10% won't compromise any paramter of a crossover design. But
>>> he'll say he never suggested any such thing.
>>
>> Probably because, in fact, he didn't say any such thing.
>>
>> What he DID say is that in particular circumstances, a
>> wide tolerance in value will have negligable effects on
>> actual performance,
>
> Which applies for many things - so why bother to put any effort into making
> anything good ?
>
>> even to the point of being unmeasurable.
>
> I think you could measure the differences in my example with a cheap
> multimeter.

Oh, come on, you're playing semantics games here. You know damn well
that he (Dick Pierce) was referring to measuring the performance of the
system, not just the value of the component.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

[Mr.T]

"David Nebenzahl" > wrote in message
.com...
> On 5/30/2010 2:14 AM geoff spake thus:
> > I think you could measure the differences in my example with a cheap
> > multimeter.
>
> Oh, come on, you're playing semantics games here. You know damn well
> that he (Dick Pierce) was referring to measuring the performance of the
> system, not just the value of the component.

You think he understands the difference?

MrT.

[David Nebenzahl]

On 5/31/2010 2:08 AM Mr.T spake thus:

> "David Nebenzahl" > wrote in message
> .com...
>
>> On 5/30/2010 2:14 AM geoff spake thus:
>>
>>> I think you could measure the differences in my example with a cheap
>>> multimeter.
>>
>> Oh, come on, you're playing semantics games here. You know damn well
>> that he (Dick Pierce) was referring to measuring the performance of the
>> system, not just the value of the component.
>
> You think he understands the difference?

I wonder ...


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

[Randy Yates]

Dick Pierce > writes:
> [...] (Fantastic story and information skipped)

Why does it matter? Simply operate the damned thing in
a reasonable range and be done with it. If you need
more, seek another system configuration.
--
Randy Yates % "And all that I can do
Digital Signal Labs % is say I'm sorry,
% that's the way it goes..."
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com % Getting To The Point', *Balance of Power*, ELO