Digimax 96 vs Apogee Mini-Me - a big difference in preamps/converters?

[Nectarphonic]

I could really use some advice here. I've been trying to research the
best way to augment my Digi001. I need better converters than the
stock Digi001 for recording drums and doing overdubs (vocals, guitars,
etc.). I keep going back and forth between something like the
Presonus Digimax 96 and the Apogee Mini-Me. As I live rather far away
from the nearest store, I could really use some advice:

1. Does the DigiMax 96 have quality A/D converters and mic preamps?
I noticed the mic preamps seem to be fairly highly regarded in some
circles, but then, I also see them being compared to Mackie VLZ Pro
mic preamps. So which is it? Are they noticeably higher quality than
the Mackies? How about the A/D converters? Are these good quality?
The DigiMax 96 has gotten shockingly glowing reviews in numerous
publications, which is making me wonder.

2. Or is it better to go with something like either the Apogee
Mini-Me (are these converters and mic preamps noticeably better in
quality than the Presonus's?) or the Lucid 9624 coupled with the FMR
mic preamp or something similar for about the same money?

I would normally be using the upgraded converters and mic preamps for
most of the overdubs, and would only use the Digi001 mic
preamps/converters when I was tracking drums. If the difference
between the Presonus and the Apogee (or Lucid) is honestly negligible
- not a super-huge difference - then I would want to just go ahead and
get the Presonus. If the Apogee or Lucid are really noticeably more
open and better, then I would prefer to upgrade that way and I guess
shrug my shoulders when cutting drums. But really, I could use some
advice from someone who has has experience with these products.

Thank you very much.

Lars / Nectarphonic

[Fletcher]

Nectarphonic wrote:

> If the Apogee or Lucid are really noticeably more
> open and better,

They are indeed noticeably more open, noticeably clearer, and noticeably
richer and deeper in terms of overall tone and texture... how the Presonus
people can put that **** on the street with a straight face is a total
mystery to me...

The Apogee/Lucid debate... that [at least to me] is more of a debate of
with or without pre's... and the "soft limit" function is the most musical
version of the feature Apogee has ever produced... so that might swing my
decision in that direction... but overall, you can't go too far wrong with
either [in the world of inexpensive converters... there are several that
are heap big many more duckets that bury both units].
--
Fletcher
Mercenary Audio
TEL: 508-543-0069
FAX: 508-543-9670
http://www.mercenary.com
"this is not a problem"

[Nectarphonic]

Fletcher > wrote in message >...
> Nectarphonic wrote:
>
> > If the Apogee or Lucid are really noticeably more
> > open and better,
>
> They are indeed noticeably more open, noticeably clearer, and noticeably
> richer and deeper in terms of overall tone and texture... how the Presonus
> people can put that **** on the street with a straight face is a total
> mystery to me...

Oh, that bad, eh? Glad you've actually heard the Presonus units.
It's valuable to have an opinion from someone who has actually heard
both units. Thanks, Fletcher.

> The Apogee/Lucid debate... that [at least to me] is more of a debate of
> with or without pre's... and the "soft limit" function is the most musical
> version of the feature Apogee has ever produced... so that might swing my
> decision in that direction... but overall, you can't go too far wrong with
> either [in the world of inexpensive converters... there are several that
> are heap big many more duckets that bury both units].

That's part of it. Part of it is trying to figure out how good those
Apogee mic preamps are. I could definitely stand to upgrade my mic
preamps, and part of the decision is whether to go with the Apogee
Mini-Me or the Lucid + the FMR Really Nice Preamps. If they are
similar in quality, I'll go for the Apogee since it has the Soft Limit
feature.

And, btw, I just realized that I am actually under a different name
because my home computer is kabloooey. This is my friend's Google
account - this is actually Ken (Eleven Shadows) here. Didn't realize
it the first time I posted! Thanks again.

-Ken

Lars/Nectarphonic

[Ken/Eleven Shadows]

Hey, Hank!! How are you? This other post was the first post in about
9-10 months here...been busy, actually bought a house, been recording
a lot, really busy but doin' well. Hope you're doing well, too!

Trying to puzzle out this converter and preamp thing here....too many
choices. I've been starting to record w/ Digi001/Pro Tools lately
since my analog equipment is starting to run a little
"funny"...<g>...trying to get the sound happening, but I really need
to upgrade these Digi001 converters to something noticeably better.

How are things going with you?

Ken/Eleven Shadows

P.S. I think my computer is up and running now...<g>...but
shhhhhh....

(LeBaron & Alrich) wrote in message >...
> Nectarphonic wrote:
>
> > And, btw, I just realized that I am actually under a different name
> > because my home computer is kabloooey. This is my friend's Google
> > account - this is actually Ken (Eleven Shadows) here. Didn't realize
> > it the first time I posted! Thanks again.
> >
> > -Ken
>
> Whoa, man, good to hear from you!

[Mike Rivers]

(Ken/Eleven Shadows) wrote in message >...
> Hey, Hank!! How are you? This other post was the first post in about
> 9-10 months here...been busy, actually bought a house, been recording
> a lot, really busy but doin' well. Hope you're doing well, too!

Hey, Ken!

Good to see you back in circulation. Bought a house? You must be
making a real living now.

My host's news server is hosed and apparently undergoing a lengthly
facility rebuild, so I've started posting through Google too. News
still comes in, mail works, but news doesn't go out. Just like the
Hotel California.

[Mike Rivers]

(Ken/Eleven Shadows) wrote in message >...

> Hey, can an Apogee AD16 be hooked up easily to a Digi001?

Doesn't the Digi001 have an ADAT lightpipe input? The AD16 has
lightpipe outputs (4 of them in fact, to accommodate 16 channels at 96
kHz in S-Mux format, four channels per ADAT port) so you could connect
it to the Digi001. Kind of a waste, though, since you'd be limited to
48 kHz and only 8 channels of a 16-channel converter, but it never
hurts to overbuy somewhat if you have intentions of upgrading the
computer I/O in a reasonable time frame.

[Rick Powell]

(Ken/Eleven Shadows) wrote in message >...
> Hey, can an Apogee AD16 be hooked up easily to a Digi001? It has a 25
> pin DSUB for analog inputs. This is usually for PT HD, right? Can it
> be used easily for a Digi001 system? If so, what's the best way?
> Thanks!
>
> Ken/Eleven Shadows
> http://www.elevenshadows.com

You can use 8 of the 16 A/D converters via the ADAT lightpipe outputs
of the AD16 and the ADAT input on the 001's PCI card. Neither the 001
or 002 will accept the 96 kHz S/MUX sampling mode, so you're stuck
with 44.1 or 48 kHz sample rate. The 25 pin DSUB is strictly to
interface the user's analog front end (mic pre, DI box, etc.) to the
AD16. In a PT HD setup, you'd have to use a 96, 192, or 192 Digital
interface to access the ADAT output(s) of the AD16; there's no direct
interface capability between PT HD and the AD16 (at least, not yet).

RP

[tojo]

I am looking for good A/D with or without mic-pre, what others would
you suggest besides the Apogee and Lucid? What are your "several that
are heap big many more duckets that bury both units?
thanks


On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 13:43:41 GMT, Fletcher >
wrote:

>Nectarphonic wrote:
>[i]
>> If the Apogee or Lucid are really noticeably more
>> open and better,
>
>They are indeed noticeably more open, noticeably clearer, and noticeably
>richer and deeper in terms of overall tone and texture... how the Presonus
>people can put that **** on the street with a straight face is a total
>mystery to me...
>
>The Apogee/Lucid debate... that [at least to me] is more of a debate of
>with or without pre's... and the "soft limit" function is the most musical
>version of the feature Apogee has ever produced... so that might swing my
>decision in that direction... but overall, you can't go too far wrong with
>either .

[Scott Dorsey]

tojo > wrote:
>I am looking for good A/D with or without mic-pre, what others would
>you suggest besides the Apogee and Lucid? What are your "several that
>are heap big many more duckets that bury both units?

Prism, Db Technologies, EMM (Meitner), Mytek... ummm... Benchmark,
Sony, Denecke, even stuff like the old Symetrix 620.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Ken/Eleven Shadows]

Good to hear from you also, Mike!

The house thing - we had been toying around with the idea of
purchasing one anyway because of the low interest rates. But what
*really* gave us a kick in the arse was this: we were living a
gorgeous 1920s Mediterranean-style duplex. However, the landlady sold
the house to a developer, and we all got eviction notices. It all
happened really fast - it was surprising how fast the announcement and
escrow was. We started looking around for houses. Simultaneously,
however, we also fought for preservation of the houses and got
historical monument status for all the houses. A small group of us
actually won the 2003 Governor's Award for Historical Preservation for
the state of California (he may have screwed the economy, but he gave
us this cool award...<g>). They're the last houses in a row left
standing from one of the first Westwood developers, and one of the
homes in this strip was designed by a noted architect. The houses
are, bizarrely, still not safe from destruction yet because of idiotic
Los Angeles laws despite being declared historical monuments, so the
battle is far from over. It's a tear-down city.

Anyway, I'm getting off track here, but that was the impetus for
purchasing a home. As you can imagine, we've been seriously busy.
But the good news is that we've gotten a house in good condition, I've
started recording again, my lower back is much better (I was
incapacitated and in excruciating pain for about a year and a half and
was on Oxycontin and Vicodin just to function - not good at all), work
is going well, and I'm now busy but doing really well. It was rough
before, but the last six months or so have been going really well, and
things have really turned around - especially my health.

I've started posting through Google just for the last few posts. It
works pretty well, I suppose, but there is a huge delay in the time it
takes to post the message. When I was using NutScrape Communicator,
it was usually virtually instantaneous.

Glad to "see" you!

-Ken
http://www.elevenshadows.com

> Hey, Ken!
>
> Good to see you back in circulation. Bought a house? You must be
> making a real living now.
>
> My host's news server is hosed and apparently undergoing a lengthly
> facility rebuild, so I've started posting through Google too. News
> still comes in, mail works, but news doesn't go out. Just like the
> Hotel California.

[Rick Powell]

(Ken/Eleven Shadows) wrote in message >...
> Thanks. Just to follow up on this, one can definitely only get 8 of
> the 16 converters - the RCA S/PDIF and the lightpipe cannot be used
> simultaneously on the Digi001.

The S/PDIF CAN be used simultaneously if the optical I/O are set to
ADAT mode. IOW, you can get 18 simultaneous I/O...8 channels through
the 001's internal a/d and d/a converters, 8 channels through the
lightpipe I/O in ADAT mode, and 2 channels through the S/PDIF I/O.

> * One more question - I assume that it is crucial to set the hardware
> options to "OPTICAL" (sync) so that I can use the Apogee's converters
> AND the Digi 001 converters simultaneously?

That would be your best bet. Your S/PDIF a/d/a external device,
should you have one, would then slave off the 001's S/PDIF. You could
also conceivably clock the 001 thru a device that had S/PDIF a/d/a
conversion AND wordclock generating ability (set 001 sync to S/PDIF),
and then wordclock the Apogee AD16 from the S/PDIF device.

> If someone could please verify this for me (or slap me around 'n' tell
> me I'm wrong!! <g>).
>
> Ken/Eleven Shadows