How in the hell do you mic a bagpipe???

[Ryan Richards \(Diesel Breath\)]

???

[Rob Adelman]

Ryan Richards (Diesel Breath) wrote:
> ???

From a very long distance..

[Don Pearce]

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:07:25 GMT, "Ryan Richards \(Diesel Breath\)"
> wrote:

>???
>

Couple'a'miles just about does it.

d

_____________________________

http://www.pearce.uk.com

[Ricky W. Hunt]

"Rob Adelman" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Ryan Richards (Diesel Breath) wrote:
> > ???
>
> From a very long distance..

Like the old joke: Why do bagpipe players walk around as they play? To try
and get away from the noise.

[Richard Kuschel]

>
>???
>

Why would you need to?

Why would you want to?

Have the piper stand in the street ,close the studio door, lock the studio
door.

Seriously--

The last one I recorded was 108 dB at the piper's ear.

What you need to do is plug one ear, ( it's tempting to plug both) and find the
place where the sound balances between the drones and the chanter. Put the
microphone there and hit record.

Ideally the pipes (The big Highland ones) are an outdoor instrument, and sound
better there.
Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

[Don Pearce]

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:19:35 GMT, "Ricky W. Hunt"
> wrote:

>"Rob Adelman" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>
>> Ryan Richards (Diesel Breath) wrote:
>> > ???
>>
>> From a very long distance..
>
>Like the old joke: Why do bagpipe players walk around as they play? To try
>and get away from the noise.
>

That isn't it. It is because a moving target is much harder to hit.

d

_____________________________

http://www.pearce.uk.com

[Ben Bradley]

Please limit your exposure:

http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20030825-065747-6699r.htm


In rec.audio.pro, "Ryan Richards \(Diesel Breath\)"
> wrote:

>???
>
>

-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley

[Scott Dorsey]

In article >,
Ryan Richards \(Diesel Breath\) > wrote:
>???

What kind of pipe? Highland pipe, Uilleann pipe, or some of the other odd
ones?

For the Highland pipes, you put it in a big room and you mike the room.
Sound comes out of a bunch of different places in the instrument and you
need the room to mix them all up. You can also mike it outside in front
of a wall to get a good blend.

This is, of course, for recording. You don't need any sound reinforcement
with the highland pipes.

The quieter pipes are less hard to deal with because they are quieter and
generally start out with less harsh a tone. With the Uilleann pipes there
is really one pipe and one chanter, and all the sound comes out the front
except for one low note. Again, I think it's best to pull back and get
everything with one mike, but you don't have to get anywhere near as far
back and four or five feet is enough.

I have not see any good way of miking the Uilleann pipes for PA. Most folks
put a single mike between the performer's legs, pointed up, and this does
not work worth a damn. Putting lavs on the pipe and chanter gives you a lot
of thumping, wheezing, and banging. I've tried a pair of 441s on either side
of the performer pulled a little bit back, but these guys are usually dealing
with high stage levels playing live so leakage becomes a big issue.

The miniature Breton pipes are more or less the same problem for PA work.
I don't know anything about the Galician pipes, really, but if certain people
would show up to their gigs on time I might learn something about them rather
than sticking them in front of a 57.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

ChuxGarage > wrote:
>>You don't need any sound reinforcement
>>with the highland pipes.
>
>That depends on the situation. I have had good results for PA using two mikes.
> One is placed in front of the player and low to pick up the "Drone." The
>other is up high and behind the piper to pick up the sound from the pipes.
>Neither of these mics should be very close to the player. A short stand like
>you'd use for a drum kit works great for the Drone. A boom stand two or three
>feet away is fine for the pipes.

Was this for antipersonnel use, or were you employing it against aircraft?
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Cossie]

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...

> I don't know anything about the Galician pipes, really, but if certain
people
> would show up to their gigs on time I might learn something about them
rather
> than sticking them in front of a 57.
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


HAH! The eternal RAP question has been answered!

From now on, when someone says, "That Scott Dorsey - is there ANYTHING he
doesn't know?" we can answer confidently, "Well, he doesn't know anything
about Galician pipes, really." :-)

Bill Balmer

[Rob B]

I have played pipes for about 35 years and also play small pipes and
Uillean somewhat, and own a studio that has recorded quite a few
players. If your recording is going to be solo pipes, probably 2 mics
would be the best. One about 3 - 4 feet in front about chanter height,
and one about 8 feet up and 8 feet back behind the player. This will
give you some chanter/drone balance choices. If it is with other
instruments, just the chanter mic. I have good luck with a Dragonfly
into a Great River MP2NV. Don't use any compression, the volume
difference on the chanter from top to bottom will make the drones pump
wildly.
My 2 cents anyway!
Rob

[EganMedia]

It depends on the pipes, player, and desired sound. For Highland pipes I often
like to cheat and record as section of drones alone and overdub the chanter.
It lets you fuss wih tuning more and offers more flexibility in the mix. I've
also had good luck using an omni above and behind the drones and a full-bodied
sounding large diaphragm condenser on the chanter. Regardless, they'll still
sound like bagpipes. You can't do much about that.


Joe Egan
EMP
Colchester, VT
www.eganmedia.com

[Steve Holt]

EganMedia" > wrote in message
...
> It depends on the pipes, player, and desired sound. For Highland pipes I
often
> like to cheat and record as section of drones alone and overdub the
chanter.
> It lets you fuss wih tuning more and offers more flexibility in the mix.
I've
> also had good luck using an omni above and behind the drones and a
full-bodied
> sounding large diaphragm condenser on the chanter. Regardless, they'll
still
> sound like bagpipes. You can't do much about that.
>


Ever hear the soundtrack from "Braveheart"? Those pipes sound AMAZING. How
did they do it?

Steve Holt
INNER MUSIC
Music Creation & Production
http://www.inner-music.com
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/steveholt

[William Sommerwerck]

There is a PDQ Bach work that uses both lute and bagpipe. Friendly Professor
Peter Schickele points out that merely having the bagpipe in the same room as
the lute renders the lute inaudible -- even when the bagpipe _isn't_ playing.

The idea of miking a bagpipe is Just Too Weird.


>> I have had good results for PA using two mikes.

> Was this for antipersonnel use, or were you employing it against aircraft?

[Rob Adelman]

Steve Holt wrote:

>
> Ever hear the soundtrack from "Braveheart"? Those pipes sound AMAZING. How
> did they do it?


90 db pad on the microphone ;-I

[John Halliburton]

> For war pipes -- yeah, record the room. And stay the hell out. I once
recorded
> a band with 8 pipers and 3 drummers. It was louder than the time I saw the
Who.

Ballroom. Evening party for the Highland Games, and the winning bands in
each category march in and play-one band at a time, thank goodness.

I've had to mic warpipes for PA, and usually a pair of mics, one floating
above the drones, and one off the front of the chanter, as far back as the
system can tolerate.

I've had very good luck with Uilean pipes by just one condensor off in
front, typically a foot or so.


Best regards,

John Halliburton

[Ted Spencer]

The last time I recorded a full size bagpipe I put a U87 about 4 feet behind
the player. It took the edge off the sound and worked quite nicely. The smaller
Uiliean (sp?) ones can be miked frontally prett well, but off axis and at least
4-6 feet away.
Ted Spencer, NYC

"No amount of classical training will ever teach you what's so cool about
"Tighten Up" by Archie Bell And The Drells" -author unknown

[Les Cargill]

"Ryan Richards (Diesel Breath)" wrote:
>
> ???

"Windage and elevation, Mrs. Langdon, windage and elevation." - the Duke.

--
Les Cargill

[George Gleason]

"Ryan Richards (Diesel Breath)" > wrote in message
...
> ???
>
depends are you recording or doing live sound
if your recording I would take a omni to it
if your doing live the melody of the pipe come out the chanter

thisis where the fingers are

the drones that stick over thier heads generally do not need mics for live
reinforcment

I just finished a 2 cd set of the pipe and drum competetion at the CNY
scottish game
and would be happy to send it out to any real pipe and drum competition
fans
\NO CLASS 1 Bands
classes 2-5 only
the recording was made with two neumann 184s in a xy position and a 103
between them elevated about 10 feet over the compition circle
and about 20 feet away(I was not allowed to put mics on the 'feild"

also Have the massing of bands
and the sound of rain falling on the plastic bag I had to cover the mics
with 2/3 of the way through the show
Peace
george

[George Gleason]

> I don't know anything about the Galician pipes, really, but if certain
people
> would show up to their gigs on time I might learn something about them
rather
> than sticking them in front of a 57.

I just finished a Tour with the "old blind Dogs" as for live
Rory had a set of Galician pipes called a Gaita
and live a m88 at the chanter worked just fine
the hard part was balancing the galician pipes against Malcoms(bare flesh)
finger picked guitar
against the throbbing Djembe
and a fiddle
Fun stuff

Rory also played various big and small whistles some of which he processed
with a wah wah
you think you got your monitors all rung out then he sweeps the long
sustained tone on the whistle
with the Wah
I am definitly a beeter engineer now than I was before the tour
LOL
George

[ryanm]

"Ryan Richards (Diesel Breath)" > wrote in message
...
> ???
>
Bagpipes aren't an instrument, they are artillery.

ryanm

[dt king]

"Steve Holt" > wrote in message
.. .
> EganMedia" > wrote in message
> ...
> > It depends on the pipes, player, and desired sound. For Highland pipes
I
> often
> > like to cheat and record as section of drones alone and overdub the
> chanter.
> > It lets you fuss wih tuning more and offers more flexibility in the
mix.
> I've
> > also had good luck using an omni above and behind the drones and a
> full-bodied
> > sounding large diaphragm condenser on the chanter. Regardless, they'll
> still
> > sound like bagpipes. You can't do much about that.
> >
>
>
> Ever hear the soundtrack from "Braveheart"? Those pipes sound AMAZING.
How
> did they do it?

I recall there was some controversy, because they recorded Uillean rather
than the big Highland pipes. I might be mistaken on that, though.

Another bit ot trivia; U.S. law forbids any kind of import tax on bagpipes.

I love the sound of bagpipes at a distance. The greater the distance, the
more I love it.

dtk

[Harvey Gerst]

" AT" > wrote:

>are there bagpipes in hell?

No, the devil is cruel, but he's not crazy. It's strictly an export item for
him.

There are banjos there, all 4 string tenor banjos, but no flat picks.

Harvey Gerst
Indian Trail Recording Studio
http://www.ITRstudio.com/

[ignatz]

"dt king" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> I love the sound of bagpipes at a distance. The greater the distance, the
> more I love it.
>
> dtk
>

This gets my vote for best bagpipe joke.

[P Stamler]

>I measured 112dBA peaks at the pipers' ears and 110dBA 2 feet over the
>side drum heads.

That's bad, but not as bad as a friend of mine measured. When his band was at
its peak, the sound level over his drums was 140dB (admittedly with a
fast-response meter).

By the way, my friend's band is better known as the St. Louis Symphony
Orchestra. I forget what he said they were playing; Stravinsky or Mahler, I
think.

Peace,
Paul

[Mike Clayton]

In article >,
(P Stamler) wrote:

> >I measured 112dBA peaks at the pipers' ears and 110dBA 2 feet over the
> >side drum heads.
>
> That's bad, but not as bad as a friend of mine measured. When his band was at
> its peak, the sound level over his drums was 140dB (admittedly with a
> fast-response meter).
>
> By the way, my friend's band is better known as the St. Louis Symphony
> Orchestra. I forget what he said they were playing; Stravinsky or Mahler, I
> think.
>
> Peace,
> Paul

Continuing in the same vein Paul, a few years ago ('bout 4 now, I think) I
spent a few days at an orchestra camp. I was playing double bass, and for
rehearsals and the concert performance (Fingal's Cave overture was one of
the pieces, and a cupla movements from Britten's Simple Symphony - bit of
a misnomer that!) I was stood next to and slightly in front of the timpani
player. I had a headache and mild tinnitus for three days afterwards. I
didn't dare to do any sound level measurements!

--
Mike Clayton

[Willie K.Yee, M.D.]

Y'all lissen up now. As usual, the man knows what he is talking about.
Harv's from Texas, and it's only a short distance to Hell from there.

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 22:56:15 -0500, Harvey Gerst
> wrote:

>" AT" > wrote:
>
>>are there bagpipes in hell?
>
>No, the devil is cruel, but he's not crazy. It's strictly an export item for
>him.
>
>There are banjos there, all 4 string tenor banjos, but no flat picks.
>
>Harvey Gerst
>Indian Trail Recording Studio
>http://www.ITRstudio.com/

Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://www.bestweb.net/~wkyee
Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry http://www.pkc.com
Webmaster and Guitarist for the Big Blue Big Band http://www.bigbluebigband.org

[Doc]

(ChuxGarage) wrote in message >...

> A pair of SM-57's work about as well as anything.

Won't the pipes sound best if the mics aren't plugged in?

[Rob Adelman]

ignatz wrote:

>>I love the sound of bagpipes at a distance. The greater the distance, the
>>more I love it.
>>
>>dtk
>>
> This gets my vote for best bagpipe joke.

Agreed, that was a good one.

[no spam]

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 22:56:15 -0500, Harvey Gerst
> wrote:

>No, the devil is cruel, but he's not crazy. It's strictly an export item for
>him.
>
>There are banjos there, all 4 string tenor banjos, but no flat picks.
Hey wait a minute, I resemble that remark!
Paul Gitlitz
Glitchless Productions
www.glitchless.net

[Chris Hornbeck]

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 22:01:45 +1200,
(Mike Clayton) wrote:

>Continuing in the same vein Paul, a few years ago ('bout 4 now, I think) I
>spent a few days at an orchestra camp. I was playing double bass, and for
>rehearsals and the concert performance (Fingal's Cave overture was one of
>the pieces, and a cupla movements from Britten's Simple Symphony - bit of
>a misnomer that!) I was stood next to and slightly in front of the timpani
>player. I had a headache and mild tinnitus for three days afterwards. I
>didn't dare to do any sound level measurements!

A 36" x 15" bass drum makes a peak output of about 25 acoustic watts.
And snares and cymbals get into the 10 watt range.
Pretty scary really.


Chris Hornbeck

[Harvey Gerst]

(Willie K.Yee, M.D.) wrote:

>Y'all lissen up now. As usual, the man knows what he is talking about.
>Harv's from Texas, and it's only a short distance to Hell from there.

Yup, not sure exactly where it is, but the devil sends us a lot of heavy metal
bands to record. I know most of them are from hell.

Harvey Gerst
Indian Trail Recording Studio
http://www.ITRstudio.com/

[Willie K.Yee, M.D.]

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 22:56:15 -0500, Harvey Gerst
> wrote:

>No, the devil is cruel, but he's not crazy. It's strictly an export item for
>him.
>
>There are banjos there, all 4 string tenor banjos, but no flat picks.

When I get there, my Guild Artist Award will be waiting. The devil
will be standing there with a ****-eating grin on his face, knowing
that no matter how much I practice, I will never get any better.

Hmmm. Almost like now.


Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://www.bestweb.net/~wkyee
Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry http://www.pkc.com
Webmaster and Guitarist for the Big Blue Big Band http://www.bigbluebigband.org

[Kurt Albershardt]

Harvey Gerst wrote:
> (Willie K.Yee, M.D.) wrote:
>
>
>> Y'all lissen up now. As usual, the man knows what he is talking about.
>> Harv's from Texas, and it's only a short distance to Hell from there.
>
>
> Yup, not sure exactly where it is, but the devil sends us a lot of heavy metal
> bands to record. I know most of them are from hell.


My own experience would lead me to believe that it's somewhere not too
far from West Texas in August.

[Geoff Wood]

"Doc" > wrote in message
om...
> (ChuxGarage) wrote in message
>...
>
> > A pair of SM-57's work about as well as anything.
>
> Won't the pipes sound best if the mics aren't plugged in?

Most likely, but only from a great distance.


I wonder what the musical 'style' is - straight BP or BP-rock fusion.
Didn't work for Peter Gabriel, and he would have got it right if possible.
Just listen to that track on his latest, and you must agreee BPs just don't
sit well with BDs and BGs by *any* stretch of the imagination. One of the
worst sounds in the greater universe ....


geoff

[Ben Bradley]

In rec.audio.pro, (Doc) wrote:

(ChuxGarage) wrote in message >...
>
>> A pair of SM-57's work about as well as anything.
>
>Won't the pipes sound best if the mics aren't plugged in?

But why waste that power? Plug the mics into an inverter and put
some extra electrical power into the grid.

I'm disappointed no one commented on the link I posted earler that
says bagpipes could lead to alcoholism. The story is every bit as good
as anything in this thread, and it appears to be absolutely serious.

Just for reference, here it is again:

http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20030825-065747-6699r.htm

-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley

[John L Rice]

"Geoff Wood" -nospam> wrote in message
...
>
> "Doc" > wrote in message
> om...
> > (ChuxGarage) wrote in message
> >...
> >
> > > A pair of SM-57's work about as well as anything.
> >
> > Won't the pipes sound best if the mics aren't plugged in?
>
> Most likely, but only from a great distance.
>
>
> I wonder what the musical 'style' is - straight BP or BP-rock fusion.
> Didn't work for Peter Gabriel, and he would have got it right if possible.
> Just listen to that track on his latest, and you must agreee BPs just
don't
> sit well with BDs and BGs by *any* stretch of the imagination. One of the
> worst sounds in the greater universe ....
>
>
> geoff
>

Maybe an exception to the 'rule' but our lead singer/piper Tim and the
guitarist Shane recorded highland pipes on a song called 'Mary' this year
and the result was very impressive and beautiful, both the performance and
recording quality. It's a really enjoyable thing to listen to.

And if I would get my ass off the internet and into the studio, the album
might get finished sooner and you'll all be able to hear what I'm talking
about!

John L Rice

[LeBaron & Alrich]

Ben Bradley > wrote:

> I'm disappointed no one commented on the link I posted earler that
> says bagpipes could lead to alcoholism.

I thought it was the other way 'round: alcoholism leads to bagpipes.

No?

--
ha

[LeBaron & Alrich]

Ben Bradley > wrote:

> Just for reference, here it is again:
>
> http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20030825-065747-6699r.htm

Okay, I read it; I think some of those docs need to learn that life is
terminal. Might as well enjoy it while it lasts. They talk as if divorce
is always a bad thing.

--
ha

[Kurt Albershardt]

Ben Bradley wrote:
>
> I'm disappointed no one commented on the link I posted earler that
> says bagpipes could lead to alcoholism. The story is every bit as good
> as anything in this thread, and it appears to be absolutely serious.
>
> Just for reference, here it is again:
>
> http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20030825-065747-6699r.htm


Missed it the first time 'round. Don't really know what to say--the
tone certainly SEEMS serious, but the words look as if could almost be
culled from a random sampling of other articles with the substitution of
'bagpipes' or 'pipers' for other sentence subjects/objects.

[PVP9847]

mic 'em from about 10 feet away

[Rob Adelman]

Doc wrote:

> They're a rock group that features
> bagpipes, they sound great.

I would think with the state of dynamics in modern music, bagpipes would
fit in perfectly.

Aren't they pretty much full blown on, or off?

[Bob Ross]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

> You don't need any sound reinforcement
> with the highland pipes.

I have an annual gig mixing monitors for the mainstage of a 3 day Irish Music
Festival, & I've noticed an awful lot of what can I suppose best be described as
GenX Irish Rock Bands...twenty-something-yearold guys with an equal respect for
traditional Irish folk music & post-Nirvana grunge rock. Typical instrumentation
is electric guitar, electric bass, drumkit, plus 2 or 3 guys on the more
traditional instruments: button accordion, fiddle, mandola, Uilleann pipes,
Highland pipes, banjo, etc.

When the SVT & the blackface Twin get crankin' you'd better believe the Highland
pipes need some help. If I'm lucky, the guy's already got some kinda mic already
attached/installed (...not that the audience listening to close-miked pipes is
particularly lucky). Otherwise I park an SM58 on a tall boom & let the player
stand wherever he wants.

> I have not see any good way of miking the Uilleann pipes for PA. Most folks
> put a single mike between the performer's legs, pointed up, and this does
> not work worth a damn.

I usually put a pair of dynamic mics on short boom stands on either side of the
piper, parallel to the floor facing inwards maybe 8" from the chair. Most of the
players will then grab them and move them to taste, but even if they don't the
results sound good & they don't feedback into the wedges.

/Bob Ross

[Ricky W. Hunt]

"Josh Snider" > wrote in message
...
>
> >>
> >> Like the old joke: Why do bagpipe players walk around as they play? To
try
> >> and get away from the noise.
> >>
> >
> > That isn't it. It is because a moving target is much harder to hit.
> >
> > d
> >
>
>
>
> What's the definition of a gentleman?
>
> Someone who CAN play the bagpipes but DOESN'T

Or "definition of optimist" - a bagpipe player with a beeper.

[John L Rice]

Do you know if it was a Deger, a Fagerstrom or that other one with the
square box?

John L Rice


"George Gleason" > wrote in message
...
> Just finished a festival with "enter the haggis" www.enterthehaggis.com
> the piper along with his reg pipes had a electric bagpipe, just a di line
> to the desk!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> George
>
>

[John L Rice]

"George Gleason" > wrote in message
...
>
> "John L Rice" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Do you know if it was a Deger, a Fagerstrom or that other one with the
> > square box?
> >
>
> I have no Idea it looked like a chanter he did not have to blow into it
> George
>

Hi George,

I was just curious. Our piper has a Deger and that's probably what you
saw/heard :
http://www.deger.de/

Here is a site that shows the Deger, Fagerstrom and the Ross :
http://www.songsea.com/electronic.html


John L Rice

[George Gleason]

"John L Rice" > wrote in message
...
>
> "George Gleason" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "John L Rice" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Do you know if it was a Deger, a Fagerstrom or that other one with the
> > > square box?
> > >
> >
> > I have no Idea it looked like a chanter he did not have to blow into
it
> > George
> >
>
> Hi George,
>
> I was just curious. Our piper has a Deger and that's probably what you
> saw/heard :
> http://www.deger.de/
>
> Here is a site that shows the Deger, Fagerstrom and the Ross :
> http://www.songsea.com/electronic.html
>
It was the deger, even after 15 years of live shows I always learn something
never saw one of these before
of course the amplifies sound resembled a bag but did not carry to ambient
"energy "of a set of war pipes
George

[Mike Rivers]

"George Gleason" > wrote in message >...

> It was the deger, even after 15 years of live shows I always learn something
> never saw one of these before
> of course the amplifies sound resembled a bag but did not carry to ambient
> "energy "of a set of war pipes

Maybe that's because you could turn it down. <g>

Kind of like the guy I'm afraid we scared away who wanted electronic
drums for his church group because the electric guitars weren't as
loud as the drums.