Question about mic pre's on M-audio Delta

[Ben Hanson]

Anyone use the 1010-LT mic pre's that can comment on their quality? I am
very seriously thinking about the 1010 but the unit with the rack module
does not have the mic preamps like the 1010-LT does. Having that rack unit
would sure be handy, but I might compromise that if I can go with the
1010-LT and not have to buy an external mic preamp. I know it's is not like
an Avalon or anything but any comments regarding relative quality (perhaps
to other pre's on the market) would be helpful. Mics will range from Shure
SM-58 up through Neumann TLM-103's.

Also, any general comments (quality, noise floor, etc.) regarding the 1010
and the 1010-LT units themselves would be helpful.

-Ben

[Mike]

"Ben Hanson" > wrote in
:

> Mics will range from Shure
> SM-58 up through Neumann TLM-103's.

No phantom power on 1010LT - AFAIK

[Aphelion]

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 09:06:27 GMT, Mike > wrote:

>"Ben Hanson" > wrote in
:
>
>> Mics will range from Shure
>> SM-58 up through Neumann TLM-103's.

>No phantom power on 1010LT - AFAIK

I'd download the pdf on it first.

Ap

[Arny Krueger]

"Laurence Payne" > wrote in
message

>> Ironically, the mics that need the best mic preamps are both very
>> popular and cheap - consider the SM57 and 58 in non-close miced
>> situations.

> Why would you consider a SM58 in a non close-miced situation?

I wouldn't because my mic cabinet is a scosh richer than that unless I'm
caught out in the figurative rain such as a poorly-planned remote
situation. But, I run into lots of people who are harder-up than I am. A few
uncomfortable things have happened to me in the past. The wrong mic and the
wrong mic preamp is not a pretty picture.

IME there are a lot of people who are at the point-and-shoot level with
microphones. Hopefully newbie RAP readers don't stay that way long.

If you are headed to a situation between a rock and a hard place, it at
least helps to know that you are headed to a situation between a rock and a
hard place.

However, my comment about the SM58 applies equally well to the SM57. Because
it's usually thought of as an "instrument" mic, it's much more likely to be
used several feet away and it's much more likely to be used with really soft
instruments like an acoustical guitar. People have been there and done this
and lived to tell the tale, but they probably didn't do it with a
poor-quality mic preamp.

I think that the EV 635 and variations on it (e.g., RE50) is another really
popular mic family that could easily be used in situations where its output
is low, but regrettably matched to a mic pre that runs out of gas at high
gain settings.

Because these mics are so popular (I understand there's a valid argument as
to whether the SM57 family or EV 635 family are the most popular mics on
earth) and economical to buy, they are used by a lot of people who aren't
into the subtleties, yet.

[Glenn Dowdy]

"Ben Hanson" > wrote in message
...
> Anyone use the 1010-LT mic pre's that can comment on their quality?

I didn't even consider using them. I set them up for line level inputs when
I installed the card. When you can get an M-Audio DMP-3 for $150, there's no
reason to use the built-ins.

Glenn D.

[Ben Hanson]

I have never bought a mic preamp before, so forgive me if this is a dumb
question...but if you buy a mic preamp, do most of them also have phantom
power built in? I know the Neumann TLM-103's I was referring to require it,
so a mic preamp that did not provide phantom power would not be much help.

Are there any baseline generalities to look out for when buying a mic
preamp? Can one good preamp work equally well for a lower end mic like a 58
as well as a higher end mic like the TLM-103? Any other thoughts would be
helpful.

-Ben

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Ben Hanson" > wrote in message
>
> > Anyone use the 1010-LT mic pre's that can comment on their quality?
>
> FWIW I can confirm what others have said - the online manual says no
phantom
> power.
>
> Reference: http://www.m-audio.com/support/manuals/pdf/DELTA1010LTr3.pdf
>
> > I am very seriously thinking about the 1010 but the unit with the rack
> > module does not have the mic preamps like the 1010-LT does.
>
> That's because the rack model is for use in environments where the quality
> of on-board mic pres would be inappropriate. I think its amazing enough
that
> we can find really good line-level inputs on computer sound cards. Hoping
> for good mic preamps that work with signals up to 1000 times smaller seems
> to me like a major reach. Look at the 1010LT card (page 7) - there is no
> special shielding around the mic preamp circuitry.
>
> Ironically, the mics that need the best mic preamps are both very popular
> and cheap - consider the SM57 and 58 in non-close miced situations.
>
> > Having that rack unit would sure be handy, but I might compromise that
if
> I
> > can go with the 1010-LT and not have to buy an external mic preamp.
>
> Given that you can exploit the mic pres in a ca. $50 Behringer mixer and
at
> least get phantom power... Plus if you outgrow the Behringer, you can
> uninstall it and replace it with something better.
>
> > I know it's is not like an Avalon or anything but any comments
> > regarding relative quality (perhaps to other pre's on the market)
> > would be helpful. Mics will range from Shure SM-58 up through Neumann
> > TLM-103's.
>
> You need phantom power, and if you buy 2 inputs worth of phantom power,
> you'll probably pay for that cheap Behringer mixer.
>
> > Also, any general comments (quality, noise floor, etc.) regarding the
> > 1010 and the 1010-LT units themselves would be helpful.
>
> The 1010 is well-known to be a good, competent device. Hook up some decent
> preamps and mics and you're good to go.
>
>
>

[Laurence Payne]

>I have never bought a mic preamp before, so forgive me if this is a dumb
>question...but if you buy a mic preamp, do most of them also have phantom
>power built in? I know the Neumann TLM-103's I was referring to require it,
>so a mic preamp that did not provide phantom power would not be much help.
>
>Are there any baseline generalities to look out for when buying a mic
>preamp? Can one good preamp work equally well for a lower end mic like a 58
>as well as a higher end mic like the TLM-103? Any other thoughts would be
>helpful.

Yes, they generally supply phantom power.

Some preamps try to be transparent, some add the particular distortion
known as "valve sound" or otherwise mess with the signal. Read the
reviews, listen. Beware of "Retro" styling. It's often a snake-oil
indicator :-)

There's plenty of good recordings been made straight into a Mackie or
Behringer mixer. And plenty of bad ones into Apogee, SSL etc. Don't
lose focus, it's the performance that matters.

CubaseFAQ page www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm

[_Just_]

Hi!
I tried the built-in-preamps a couple of times, but they aren`t usable... I
tried a SM58 dirctly into it and a RodeNT1000 through a phantom box
(Sennheiser), but the result was way to bad.. even for a simple demo-thing.
It seemed like the signal was compressed or whatever at a certain point just
like when you record to loud... but it wasn`t to loud, just compressed and
almost distorted. It didn`t help to turn the input volume down. Tried the
preamp in both modes (there`s a pad-thing-setting that you change via the
jumpers), but I ended up in the third setting (line) hooked up to a
soundcraft mixer, and the signal/sound is a totally different story now...

-J-



"Ben Hanson" > wrote in message
...
> Anyone use the 1010-LT mic pre's that can comment on their quality? I am
> very seriously thinking about the 1010 but the unit with the rack module
> does not have the mic preamps like the 1010-LT does. Having that rack unit
> would sure be handy, but I might compromise that if I can go with the
> 1010-LT and not have to buy an external mic preamp. I know it's is not
like
> an Avalon or anything but any comments regarding relative quality (perhaps
> to other pre's on the market) would be helpful. Mics will range from Shure
> SM-58 up through Neumann TLM-103's.
>
> Also, any general comments (quality, noise floor, etc.) regarding the 1010
> and the 1010-LT units themselves would be helpful.
>
> -Ben
>
>
>