Black hole hums deepest note ever detected

[Rob Adelman]

<http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/09/10/blackhole.music.reut/index.html>

WASHINGTON, Sept 9 (Reuters) -- Big black holes sing bass. One
particularly monstrous black hole has probably been humming B flat for
billions of years, but at a pitch no human could hear, let alone sing,
astronomers said this week.

[shawn]

Cool! What would it take to put one of those things in the trunk of my
low-rider with the tinted windows?

Rob Adelman wrote:
> <http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/09/10/blackhole.music.reut/index.html>
>
> WASHINGTON, Sept 9 (Reuters) -- Big black holes sing bass. One
> particularly monstrous black hole has probably been humming B flat for
> billions of years, but at a pitch no human could hear, let alone sing,
> astronomers said this week.

[Charles Thomas]

I'm confused.

How "low" can you really get? I mean... 1 hz is just a pulse every
second. It's not really a "tone".

Isn't everything below about 20 hz just a bunch of pulses in decreasing
frequency? It's not going to be heard as a "note" of any kind is it?

CT

[LeBaron & Alrich]

shawn > wrote:

> Cool! What would it take to put one of those things in the trunk of my
> low-rider with the tinted windows?

Everything, as you now know it.

> Rob Adelman wrote:
> > <http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/09/10/blackhole.music.reut/index.html>

> > WASHINGTON, Sept 9 (Reuters) -- Big black holes sing bass. One
> > particularly monstrous black hole has probably been humming B flat for
> > billions of years, but at a pitch no human could hear, let alone sing,
> > astronomers said this week.

--
ha

[area242]

"Charles Thomas" > wrote in
message ...
> I'm confused.
>
> How "low" can you really get? I mean... 1 hz is just a pulse every
> second. It's not really a "tone".

It's a "tone" to any entity that can hear it, I would say.

>
> Isn't everything below about 20 hz just a bunch of pulses in decreasing
> frequency? It's not going to be heard as a "note" of any kind is it?

Not by humans it won't. But that doesn't matter really. I tone is a tone.
Many animals right here on our own planet hear "tones" that we don't. Yet,
they still exist and are considered tones non the less.

[Harvey Gerst]

(Michael Dines) wrote:
>> Charles Thomas > wrote:

>> I'm confused.
>> How "low" can you really get? I mean... 1 hz is just a pulse every
>> second. It's not really a "tone".
>> Isn't everything below about 20 hz just a bunch of pulses in decreasing
>> frequency? It's not going to be heard as a "note" of any kind is it?

>And, since black holes aren't in an atmosphere there's no audio waves.
>And because of their gravity light waves can't escape - so how do they
>propagate this hum?

It's precisely because light waves can't escape, black holes are forced to hum;
without light, they can't see the lyrics.

Harvey Gerst
Indian Trail Recording Studio
http://www.ITRstudio.com/

[Buster Mudd]

Charles Thomas > wrote in message >...
> I'm confused.
>
> How "low" can you really get? I mean... 1 hz is just a pulse every
> second. It's not really a "tone".

You perceive it as a pulse because human hearing apparatus can't
resolve a 1Hz tone. Theoretically another lifeform could. (In fact,
don't elephants hear down into the sub-single digit frequencies?)

>
> Isn't everything below about 20 hz just a bunch of pulses in decreasing
> frequency? It's not going to be heard as a "note" of any kind is it?
>

Not by humans, no. But we can extrapolate the note if we agree that
any periodic vibrations in an elastic medium can be called "sound". My
problem with the article is with the notion that regularly recurring
EM pulses are the same thing as periodic vibrations...

and even if we can agree that "star plasma" (or whatever the goo
that's getting compressed & rarefacted by these EM pulses is called)
constitutes an elastic medium, there's no continuous elastic medium
between this black hole and our solar system, so it's kind of a If A
Tree Falls In The Forest thought experiment at best. The "note", even
if our hearing apparatus could resolve a frequency that low, is a
localized phenomenon. It's not being broadcast towards Earth, it's
confined to that (very) distant neighborhood.

Nice sentiment, though.

[Charles Thomas]

In article >,
(Buster Mudd) wrote:

> You perceive it as a pulse because human hearing apparatus can't
> resolve a 1Hz tone. Theoretically another lifeform could. (In fact,
> don't elephants hear down into the sub-single digit frequencies?)

If that's the case then isn't something that pulses only once every
billion or so years really putting out a very low note?

CT

[area242]

"shawn" > wrote in message
...
> LeBaron & Alrich wrote:
> > shawn > wrote:
> >> Rob Adelman wrote:
> >>>
> <http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/09/10/blackhole.music.reut/index.html>
> >
> >>> WASHINGTON, Sept 9 (Reuters) -- Big black holes sing bass. One
> >>> particularly monstrous black hole has probably been humming B flat
> >>> for billions of years, but at a pitch no human could hear, let
> >>> alone sing, astronomers said this week.
> >>
> >> Cool! What would it take to put one of those things in the trunk of
> >> my low-rider with the tinted windows?
> >
> > Everything, as you now know it.
>
> Good point. And with those light-swallowing properties, I guess the
tinted
> windows aren't strictly necessary.


Depends on what side of the hole you're on.
LOL...I feel like we all just smoked a ton of weed. :-P

[WillStG]

<< > wrote...
> I'm confused.
>
> How "low" can you really get? I mean... 1 hz is just a pulse every second.
It's not really a "tone". >>

They say 57 octaves below middle C... Is that 1hz? For some reeason the
sceintists say the intensity of the the tone is comparable to human speech.

Well if black holes where matter ends is a Bb, may where matter enters the
Universe produces an F note. Five - One resolution and such.



Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Fox And Friends/Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

[Hal Laurent]

"WillStG" > wrote in message
...
>
> They say 57 octaves below middle C... Is that 1hz?

No, it's much lower than that. It's approximately 0.000000000000003 Hz.

Hal Laurent
Baltimore

[squeeziechum]

"Buster Mudd" > wrote in message
om...
>snip<
> Not by humans, no. But we can extrapolate the note if we agree that
> any periodic vibrations in an elastic medium can be called "sound". My
> problem with the article is with the notion that regularly recurring
> EM pulses are the same thing as periodic vibrations...
>
I have a VLF (Very Low Frequency) receiver that converts EM radiation in the
range of ~ 20 kHz and under into acoustic energy so a human can hear it.
Out in the wopwop, far enough from electrical power lines, you can listen to
the sounds of earth's atmosphere. It's mostly from distant lightning
strikes and sounds like sizzling bacon. Consider the possibility that some
creature, somewhere, might have an organ or two that could do what my VLF
receiver+amp+ears do; that is, "hear" the EM radiation.

Bleeps,
Phil / Houston

> and even if we can agree that "star plasma" (or whatever the goo
> that's getting compressed & rarefacted by these EM pulses is called)
> constitutes an elastic medium, there's no continuous elastic medium
> between this black hole and our solar system, so it's kind of a If A
> Tree Falls In The Forest thought experiment at best. The "note", even
> if our hearing apparatus could resolve a frequency that low, is a
> localized phenomenon. It's not being broadcast towards Earth, it's
> confined to that (very) distant neighborhood.
>
> Nice sentiment, though.

[jslator]

I could have the math wrong, but I think 57 octaves below middle C
works out to about one cycle every 16 million years or so. For some
reason, I'm not all that impressed.


Charles Thomas...
> Isn't everything below about 20 hz just a bunch of pulses in decreasing
> frequency? It's not going to be heard as a "note" of any kind is it?

[Bob Cain]

Michael Dines wrote:
>
> And, since black holes aren't in an atmosphere there's no audio waves.
> And because of their gravity light waves can't escape - so how do they
> propagate this hum?

I'm going to take this up on sci.physics to be sure but I
don't believe this is a sound wave. It may be the relic or
fossil of one but I am pretty sure that the density of
intergalactic gas (and this is intergalactic, not
interstellar) is insufficient for there to be anything like
an acoustic pressure or the pressure differential which is
necessasary for there to be an acoustic wave. The molecules
there are at the level of one (or thereabouts) per cubic
meter, IIRC, and at that distance from each other they just
couldn't exert the mutual electrostatic repulsion and
interaction that causes pressure. OTOH, if they were ions
rather than molecules I suppose it could be possible.

I'll bet it is just density striations that are propegating
inertially away from whatever gave them that inertia rather
than true acoustic waves. They could possibly be a frozen
sound field from a time when the medium was dense enough to
support sound but intuition tells me that such a wave would
have damped out first rather than being frozen.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

[Sean S]

Harvey Gerst > laid this on me:

(Michael Dines) wrote:
>>> Charles Thomas >
>>> wrote:
>
>>> I'm confused.
>>> How "low" can you really get? I mean... 1 hz is just a pulse
>>> every second. It's not really a "tone".
>>> Isn't everything below about 20 hz just a bunch of pulses in
>>> decreasing frequency? It's not going to be heard as a "note" of
>>> any kind is it?
>
>>And, since black holes aren't in an atmosphere there's no audio
>>waves. And because of their gravity light waves can't escape - so
>>how do they propagate this hum?
>
> It's precisely because light waves can't escape, black holes are
> forced to hum; without light, they can't see the lyrics.
>
> Harvey Gerst
> Indian Trail Recording Studio
> http://www.ITRstudio.com/

The scientific information available on this noosgroop is
overwhelming at times.

Sean

[Bob Smith]

Rob Adelman wrote:
>
> <http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/09/10/blackhole.music.reut/index.html>
>
> WASHINGTON, Sept 9 (Reuters) -- Big black holes sing bass. One
> particularly monstrous black hole has probably been humming B flat for
> billions of years, but at a pitch no human could hear, let alone sing,
> astronomers said this week.

Great. More research will probably reveal they hum Louie, Louie, just
down 57 octaves.

Bob Smith
BS Studios
we organize chaos
http://www.bsstudios.com

[Willie K.Yee, M.D.]

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:31:30 -0500, Harvey Gerst
> wrote:
>
>It's precisely because light waves can't escape, black holes are forced to hum;
>without light, they can't see the lyrics.

What's the best mic for recording a black hole in space?

--

Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://www.bestweb.net/~wkyee
Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry http://www.pkc.com
Webmaster and Guitarist for the Big Blue Big Band http://www.bigbluebigband.org

[LeBaron & Alrich]

Harvey Gerst > wrote:

> >(Michael Dines) wrote:

> >> Charles Thomas wrote:

> >> I'm confused.
> >> How "low" can you really get? I mean... 1 hz is just a pulse every
> >> second. It's not really a "tone".
> >> Isn't everything below about 20 hz just a bunch of pulses in decreasing
> >> frequency? It's not going to be heard as a "note" of any kind is it?

> >And, since black holes aren't in an atmosphere there's no audio waves.
> >And because of their gravity light waves can't escape - so how do they
> >propagate this hum?

> It's precisely because light waves can't escape, black holes are forced to
> hum; without light, they can't see the lyrics.

Wow, that's straight outta the Pope Chute!

--
ha

[LeBaron & Alrich]

Willie K.Yee, M.D. > wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:31:30 -0500, Harvey Gerst
> > wrote:

> >It's precisely because light waves can't escape, black holes are forced
> >to hum; without light, they can't see the lyrics.

> What's the best mic for recording a black hole in space?

Easy, one that works to pick up action in gas down to
point-fuggedaboutit hertz. No biggie. I think Gerst & Dorsey might could
do it.

--
ha

[tim perry]

"LeBaron & Alrich" > wrote in message
.. .
> Willie K.Yee, M.D. > wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:31:30 -0500, Harvey Gerst
> > > wrote:
>
> > >It's precisely because light waves can't escape, black holes are forced
> > >to hum; without light, they can't see the lyrics.
>
> > What's the best mic for recording a black hole in space?
>
> Easy, one that works to pick up action in gas down to
> point-fuggedaboutit hertz. No biggie. I think Gerst & Dorsey might could
> do it.
>
> --
> ha

id try a contact mic... but you would have to glue it to the exterior of the
black hole

[tim perry]

"LeBaron & Alrich" > wrote in message
...
> Bob Smith > wrote:
>
> > Great. More research will probably reveal they hum Louie, Louie, just
> > down 57 octaves.
>
> So you'll only need one mic!
>
> --
> ha

they must be stoned if they hum because they forget the words to louie
louie.


actully if you speed it up and play it backwards it says "elvis is here"

[John L Rice]

"tim perry" > wrote in message
et...
>
> "LeBaron & Alrich" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > Willie K.Yee, M.D. > wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:31:30 -0500, Harvey Gerst
> > > > wrote:
> >
> > > >It's precisely because light waves can't escape, black holes are
forced
> > > >to hum; without light, they can't see the lyrics.
> >
> > > What's the best mic for recording a black hole in space?
> >
> > Easy, one that works to pick up action in gas down to
> > point-fuggedaboutit hertz. No biggie. I think Gerst & Dorsey might could
> > do it.
> >
> > --
> > ha
>
> id try a contact mic... but you would have to glue it to the exterior of
the
> black hole
>

Don't forget to invert the phase to counteract all that sucking going on . .
..

John L Rice

[area242]

"Bob Cain" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Michael Dines wrote:
> >
> > And, since black holes aren't in an atmosphere there's no audio waves.
> > And because of their gravity light waves can't escape - so how do they
> > propagate this hum?
>
> I'm going to take this up on sci.physics to be sure but I
> don't believe this is a sound wave. It may be the relic or
> fossil of one but I am pretty sure that the density of
> intergalactic gas (and this is intergalactic, not
> interstellar) is insufficient for there to be anything like
> an acoustic pressure or the pressure differential which is
> necessasary for there to be an acoustic wave. The molecules
> there are at the level of one (or thereabouts) per cubic
> meter, IIRC, and at that distance from each other they just
> couldn't exert the mutual electrostatic repulsion and
> interaction that causes pressure. OTOH, if they were ions
> rather than molecules I suppose it could be possible.
>
> I'll bet it is just density striations that are propegating
> inertially away from whatever gave them that inertia rather
> than true acoustic waves. They could possibly be a frozen
> sound field from a time when the medium was dense enough to
> support sound but intuition tells me that such a wave would
> have damped out first rather than being frozen.

That's EXACTLY what I was thinking. LOL...
Actually, I was thinking something along the lines of "my head hurts...I
wonder if Taco Bell is still open"

[Tracy Johnson]

Rob Adelman > wrote in message >...
> <http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/09/10/blackhole.music.reut/index.html>
>
> WASHINGTON, Sept 9 (Reuters) -- Big black holes sing bass. One
> particularly monstrous black hole has probably been humming B flat for
> billions of years, but at a pitch no human could hear, let alone sing,
> astronomers said this week.

Look here...
http://body-mind.com/bmrpg2aa.html Site sells cd's

or here: http://www.hobbyspace.com/MultiMedia/index.html#Sounds
for cool links/info/audio samples...

I have one cd with a bunch of this kind of this stuff on it... I love
it, picked it up for about 3 bucks one time in the New-age section of
course...
I don't really recall the title of said release right now but I guess
mine is kind of a "Best of..." like "Yaweh... Live at the Milky
Way..."

[Bob Cain]

area242 wrote:
>
> "Bob Cain" > wrote in message
> >
> > I'll bet it is just density striations that are propegating
> > inertially away from whatever gave them that inertia rather
> > than true acoustic waves. They could possibly be a frozen
> > sound field from a time when the medium was dense enough to
> > support sound but intuition tells me that such a wave would
> > have damped out first rather than being frozen.
>
> That's EXACTLY what I was thinking. LOL...

Hey, this is some serious ****, dude. ;-)


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

[John Cafarella]

"Willie K.Yee, M.D." > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:31:30 -0500, Harvey Gerst
> > wrote:
> >
> >It's precisely because light waves can't escape, black holes are forced
to hum;
> >without light, they can't see the lyrics.
>
> What's the best mic for recording a black hole in space?

> Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://www.bestweb.net/~wkyee

I reckon a VACUUM tube mic might do the job...
--
John Cafarella
EOR Studio
Melbourne Australia
[ cafarellaj at powertel dot com dot au ]

[Ryan Mitchley]

So what's the best mic under $500 to record a black hole?

[Buster Mudd]

Charles Thomas > wrote in message >...

>
> If that's the case then isn't something that pulses only once every
> billion or so years really putting out a very low note?
>

In the very simple abstract sense, yes.

Well, if it just "pulses" once every billion years that not might fit
the description, but if it oscillates with a period of 1,000,000,000
years that _would_ count

Though since music as a concept is almost entirely a human endeavor,
perhaps it is misleading to refer to any frequency outside the range
of human hearing as a "note". It's probably easier to grasp if you
substitute the word "tone" for "note". (And I'm fairly confident that
if the astronomers could record this black hole & then transpose it up
30-some octaves, what we would hear would not sound much like a Bb
note, but more like a melange of noise & garbage that had a resonant
peak in the Bb neighborhood.)

Again, it's a thought experiment: If you can't hear it (or if you
aren't there to hear it) does it make a sound? Does music by
definition have to be heard?

[Buster Mudd]

"John L Rice" > wrote in message >...
>
>
> Don't forget to invert the phase to counteract all that sucking going on . .
> .
>

Damn, no wonder all my band recordings come out lousy: I forgot to
invert the phase to counteract all that sucking going on!

[John L Rice]

"Buster Mudd" > wrote in message
om...
> "John L Rice" > wrote in message
>...
> >
> >
> > Don't forget to invert the phase to counteract all that sucking going on
.. .
> > .
> >
>
> Damn, no wonder all my band recordings come out lousy: I forgot to
> invert the phase to counteract all that sucking going on!

LOL!

[LeBaron & Alrich]

Buster Mudd > wrote:

> Charles Thomas > wrote...

> > If that's the case then isn't something that pulses only once every
> > billion or so years really putting out a very low note?

> In the very simple abstract sense, yes.

> Well, if it just "pulses" once every billion years that not might fit
> the description

Seems like it'd work fine for lotsa rap.

--
ha

[Ben Bradley]

In rec.audio.pro, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

>...

>So, we are talking 0.0000000000000192 Hz here. Or something with a period
>of 986 million years. (I love my HP34C calculator.) That is a very low
>note.
>
>> Well if black holes where matter ends is a Bb, may where matter enters the
>>Universe produces an F note. Five - One resolution and such.
>
>According to NPR, this is a genuine pressure wave, like actual audio. Given
>how sparse the molecules are in interstellar space (which is almost a perfect
>vacuum), I can understand how the rate of propagation would be really really
>low.

I heard the NPR story, I thought the single note being played was
very instructive. :)
This reminds me of the tree-falling-in-the-forest question: Is
there a species out in space that's long-lived enough and with hearing
that goes low enough to hear this 'tone'?

>--scott
>
>--
>"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Ben Bradley]

In rec.audio.pro, (LeBaron & Alrich) wrote:

>Willie K.Yee, M.D. > wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:31:30 -0500, Harvey Gerst
>> > wrote:
>
>> >It's precisely because light waves can't escape, black holes are forced
>> >to hum; without light, they can't see the lyrics.
>
>> What's the best mic for recording a black hole in space?
>
>Easy, one that works to pick up action in gas down to
>point-fuggedaboutit hertz. No biggie. I think Gerst & Dorsey might could
>do it.

Use a barometer, and just write down the reading every 100 years or
so.
We better record it at exactly midnight every 36,525 days. Just
recording it "every 100 years" by the calendar would add jitter from
leap years and such. You wouldn't want to be at the end of a 500
million year recording and then find out it has jitter.

>--
>ha

[Ben Bradley]

In rec.audio.pro, "area242" > wrote:

>
>"Bob Cain" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>
>> Michael Dines wrote:
>> >
>> > And, since black holes aren't in an atmosphere there's no audio waves.
>> > And because of their gravity light waves can't escape - so how do they
>> > propagate this hum?
>>
>> I'm going to take this up on sci.physics to be sure but I
>> don't believe this is a sound wave. It may be the relic or
>> fossil of one but I am pretty sure that the density of
>> intergalactic gas (and this is intergalactic, not
>> interstellar) is insufficient for there to be anything like
>> an acoustic pressure or the pressure differential which is
>> necessasary for there to be an acoustic wave.

You may be thinking of audible frequencies. I'm sure anything near
or above 1 Hz, or even one cycle per day, would be way too high to
propagate.

>> The molecules
>> there are at the level of one (or thereabouts) per cubic
>> meter, IIRC, and at that distance from each other they just
>> couldn't exert the mutual electrostatic repulsion and
>> interaction that causes pressure.

I can see how this would be an "acoustic" wave, because it's such a
low frequency that it CAN propagate. At the 'peak' the density could
be 1.2 molecules per cubic meter. Admittedly this is still low, but
you don't have to have interactions very often to 'push up' the
density of the gas further away over the centuries, then the 'trough'
comes along and the density is only 0.8 molecules per cubic meter, and
likewise this """partial vacuum""" will eventually propagate.

>> OTOH, if they were ions
>> rather than molecules I suppose it could be possible.
>>
>> I'll bet it is just density striations that are propegating
>> inertially away from whatever gave them that inertia rather
>> than true acoustic waves. They could possibly be a frozen
>> sound field from a time when the medium was dense enough to
>> support sound but intuition tells me that such a wave would
>> have damped out first rather than being frozen.
>
>That's EXACTLY what I was thinking. LOL...
>Actually, I was thinking something along the lines of "my head hurts...I
>wonder if Taco Bell is still open"

So did the person at the Taco Bell drive-thru know?

[jspartz]

In article >, Charles Thomas
says...
>
>In article >,
> (Buster Mudd) wrote:
>
>> Again, it's a thought experiment: If you can't hear it (or if you
>> aren't there to hear it) does it make a sound? Does music by
>> definition have to be heard?
>
>I don't know man. I've put out 4 or 5 CDs that haven't been heard by
>too many folks.
>
>Maybe there's really no music on them.
>
>CT

That is a great reply!

Jason

Jason Spartz
Web: www.mudstonemusic.com
E-mail:

[LeBaron & Alrich]

Ben Bradley > wrote:

> This reminds me of the tree-falling-in-the-forest question: Is
> there a species out in space that's long-lived enough and with hearing
> that goes low enough to hear this 'tone'?

What if the universe is a life form?

--
ha

[Charles Thomas]

In article >,
(LeBaron & Alrich) wrote:

> Ben Bradley > wrote:
>
> > This reminds me of the tree-falling-in-the-forest question: Is
> > there a species out in space that's long-lived enough and with hearing
> > that goes low enough to hear this 'tone'?
>
> What if the universe is a life form?

"Dude.... it's cashed."

CT

[Harvey Gerst]

(Ben Bradley) wrote:

>>In rec.audio.pro, (LeBaron & Alrich) wrote:

>>>Willie K.Yee, M.D. > wrote:

>>> What's the best mic for recording a black hole in space?

>>Easy, one that works to pick up action in gas down to
>>point-fuggedaboutit hertz. No biggie. I think Gerst & Dorsey might could
>>do it.

>Use a barometer, and just write down the reading every 100 years or so.
>
>We better record it at exactly midnight every 36,525 days. Just
>recording it "every 100 years" by the calendar would add jitter from
>leap years and such. You wouldn't want to be at the end of a 500
>million year recording and then find out it has jitter.

Naw, I'm just gonna make it into an .mp3 anyway, so jitter's not all that
important.

Harvey Gerst
Indian Trail Recording Studio
http://www.ITRstudio.com/

[Chris Hornbeck]

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:39:11 -0500, Harvey Gerst
> wrote:

(Ben Bradley) wrote:

>>We better record it at exactly midnight every 36,525 days. Just
>>recording it "every 100 years" by the calendar would add jitter from
>>leap years and such. You wouldn't want to be at the end of a 500
>>million year recording and then find out it has jitter.
>
>Naw, I'm just gonna make it into an .mp3 anyway, so jitter's not all that
>important.

You kids turn that racket DOWN!

God

[Chris Smalt]

Hank wrote:

> What if the universe is a life form?


A life form with tinnitus?


Chris

[Carey Carlan]

(Ben Bradley) wrote in
:

> This reminds me of the tree-falling-in-the-forest question: Is
> there a species out in space that's long-lived enough and with hearing
> that goes low enough to hear this 'tone'?

In order to hear (as opposed to feel) a very low note, you'd need an ear
drum near the same order of magnitude. For a wave period of a billion
years, you'd need an ear somewhere around 100 million light years across.

[Charles Thomas]

In article >,
Carey Carlan > wrote:

> In order to hear (as opposed to feel) a very low note, you'd need an ear
> drum near the same order of magnitude. For a wave period of a billion
> years, you'd need an ear somewhere around 100 million light years across.

"I'm all ears."

CT

[Michael Dines]

LeBaron & Alrich > wrote:

> What if the universe is a life form?
>
It's getting a bit old now - probably losing the high and low registers.

[Roger W. Norman]

Everyone is forgetting. There is no sound in space. Even one with a wave
of 30,000 light years. Or is Star Wars right and 2001 wrong?

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"Ben Bradley" > wrote in message
...
> In rec.audio.pro, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>
> >...
>
> >So, we are talking 0.0000000000000192 Hz here. Or something with a
period
> >of 986 million years. (I love my HP34C calculator.) That is a very low
> >note.
> >
> >> Well if black holes where matter ends is a Bb, may where matter
enters the
> >>Universe produces an F note. Five - One resolution and such.
> >
> >According to NPR, this is a genuine pressure wave, like actual audio.
Given
> >how sparse the molecules are in interstellar space (which is almost a
perfect
> >vacuum), I can understand how the rate of propagation would be really
really
> >low.
>
> I heard the NPR story, I thought the single note being played was
> very instructive. :)
> This reminds me of the tree-falling-in-the-forest question: Is
> there a species out in space that's long-lived enough and with hearing
> that goes low enough to hear this 'tone'?
>
> >--scott
> >
> >--
> >"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
>

[Roger W. Norman]

The Galaxy Audio Supratympanic LDC with Nebulized diaphragm. But they are
expensive. It takes about 4 Billion years to manufacture one.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"Willie K.Yee, M.D." > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:31:30 -0500, Harvey Gerst
> > wrote:
> >
> >It's precisely because light waves can't escape, black holes are forced
to hum;
> >without light, they can't see the lyrics.
>
> What's the best mic for recording a black hole in space?
>
> --
>
> Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://www.bestweb.net/~wkyee
> Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry http://www.pkc.com
> Webmaster and Guitarist for the Big Blue Big Band
http://www.bigbluebigband.org
>

[Roger W. Norman]

Sucking and humming? Just what the hell IS that black hole doing?

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"John L Rice" > wrote in message
...
>
> "tim perry" > wrote in message
> et...
> >
> > "LeBaron & Alrich" > wrote in message
> > .. .
> > > Willie K.Yee, M.D. > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:31:30 -0500, Harvey Gerst
> > > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > >It's precisely because light waves can't escape, black holes are
> forced
> > > > >to hum; without light, they can't see the lyrics.
> > >
> > > > What's the best mic for recording a black hole in space?
> > >
> > > Easy, one that works to pick up action in gas down to
> > > point-fuggedaboutit hertz. No biggie. I think Gerst & Dorsey might
could
> > > do it.
> > >
> > > --
> > > ha
> >
> > id try a contact mic... but you would have to glue it to the exterior of
> the
> > black hole
> >
>
> Don't forget to invert the phase to counteract all that sucking going on .
..
> .
>
> John L Rice
>
>
>

[Roger W. Norman]

I'll bet it has something to do with the Taos Hum.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"Bob Cain" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> area242 wrote:
> >
> > "Bob Cain" > wrote in message
> > >
> > > I'll bet it is just density striations that are propegating
> > > inertially away from whatever gave them that inertia rather
> > > than true acoustic waves. They could possibly be a frozen
> > > sound field from a time when the medium was dense enough to
> > > support sound but intuition tells me that such a wave would
> > > have damped out first rather than being frozen.
> >
> > That's EXACTLY what I was thinking. LOL...
>
> Hey, this is some serious ****, dude. ;-)
>
>
> Bob
> --
>
> "Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
> simpler."
>
> A. Einstein

[Roger W. Norman]

Not only do elephants hear down there, the generate communications down
there, which is probably why they can hear it.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"Buster Mudd" > wrote in message
om...
> Charles Thomas > wrote in
message >...
> > I'm confused.
> >
> > How "low" can you really get? I mean... 1 hz is just a pulse every
> > second. It's not really a "tone".
>
> You perceive it as a pulse because human hearing apparatus can't
> resolve a 1Hz tone. Theoretically another lifeform could. (In fact,
> don't elephants hear down into the sub-single digit frequencies?)
>
> >
> > Isn't everything below about 20 hz just a bunch of pulses in decreasing
> > frequency? It's not going to be heard as a "note" of any kind is it?
> >
>
> Not by humans, no. But we can extrapolate the note if we agree that
> any periodic vibrations in an elastic medium can be called "sound". My
> problem with the article is with the notion that regularly recurring
> EM pulses are the same thing as periodic vibrations...
>
> and even if we can agree that "star plasma" (or whatever the goo
> that's getting compressed & rarefacted by these EM pulses is called)
> constitutes an elastic medium, there's no continuous elastic medium
> between this black hole and our solar system, so it's kind of a If A
> Tree Falls In The Forest thought experiment at best. The "note", even
> if our hearing apparatus could resolve a frequency that low, is a
> localized phenomenon. It's not being broadcast towards Earth, it's
> confined to that (very) distant neighborhood.
>
> Nice sentiment, though.

[LeBaron & Alrich]

Scott Dorsey > wrote:

> Roger W. Norman > wrote:

> >Everyone is forgetting. There is no sound in space. Even one with a wave
> >of 30,000 light years. Or is Star Wars right and 2001 wrong?

> If it were a perfect vacuum, there would be no sound.

> But, if there's a tiny little bit of gas in there, it can carry a pressure
> wave. But since it's hardly any material, it would have to be a very, very
> low frequency pressure wave.

So, the prefection of the instrument issuing that note into the perfect
medium for its essential B-flat bigness proves the existence of god,
right?

--
ha

[LeBaron & Alrich]

Roger W. Norman > wrote:

> Sucking and humming? Just what the hell IS that black hole doing?

Practicing some Sonny Terry.

Next: Mose Allison

Eventually: Glenn Gould

It don't mess with small stuff.

--
ha

[John L Rice]

I'm not sure but I need to get a hold of it right away, I have a 'job' it
would be perfect at.

John L Rice


"Roger W. Norman" > wrote in message
...
> Sucking and humming? Just what the hell IS that black hole doing?
>
> --
>
>
> Roger W. Norman
> SirMusic Studio
> Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
> See how far $20 really goes.
>
>
>
>
> "John L Rice" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "tim perry" > wrote in message
> > et...
> > >
> > > "LeBaron & Alrich" > wrote in message
> > > .. .
> > > > Willie K.Yee, M.D. > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:31:30 -0500, Harvey Gerst
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > >It's precisely because light waves can't escape, black holes are
> > forced
> > > > > >to hum; without light, they can't see the lyrics.
> > > >
> > > > > What's the best mic for recording a black hole in space?
> > > >
> > > > Easy, one that works to pick up action in gas down to
> > > > point-fuggedaboutit hertz. No biggie. I think Gerst & Dorsey might
> could
> > > > do it.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > ha
> > >
> > > id try a contact mic... but you would have to glue it to the exterior
of
> > the
> > > black hole
> > >
> >
> > Don't forget to invert the phase to counteract all that sucking going on
..
> .
> > .
> >
> > John L Rice
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Justin Ulysses Morse]

Buster Mudd > wrote:

> and even if we can agree that "star plasma" (or whatever the goo
> that's getting compressed & rarefacted by these EM pulses is called)
> constitutes an elastic medium, there's no continuous elastic medium
> between this black hole and our solar system, so it's kind of a If A
> Tree Falls In The Forest thought experiment at best. The "note", even
> if our hearing apparatus could resolve a frequency that low, is a
> localized phenomenon. It's not being broadcast towards Earth, it's
> confined to that (very) distant neighborhood.


If this were the case, then we wouldn't even know about it. The fact
that somebody here on (or near) Earth measured this phenomenon
necessarily implies that it is in fact being carried across the
near-void of space to our celestial doorstep.

ulysses

[Justin Ulysses Morse]

tim perry > wrote:

> they must be stoned if they hum because they forget the words to louie
> louie.

How can anybody "forget" the words to Louie Louie, when nobody actually
knows what the words are?

ulysses

[ItsTooLoud]

>> they must be stoned if they hum because they forget the words to louie
>> louie.
>
>How can anybody "forget" the words to Louie Louie, when nobody actually
>knows what the words are?

Louie Louie, me gotta go. Louie Louie, me gotta go.
A fine little girl, she wait for me. Me catch the ship across the sea. I sailed
the ship all alone. I never think I'll make it home.
Louie Louie, me gotta go.
Three nights and days we sailed the sea. Me think of girl constantly. On the
ship, I dream she there. I smell the rose in her hair.
Louie Louie, me gotta go.
Me see Jamaican moon above. It won't be long me see me love. Me take her in my
arms and then I tell her I never leave again.
Louie Louie, me gotta go.
(By Richard Berry. Copyright 1957-1963 by Limax Music Inc.)

[ryanm]

"LeBaron & Alrich" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> So, the prefection of the instrument issuing that note into the perfect
> medium for its essential B-flat bigness proves the existence of god,
> right?
>
Actually, what it shows is that there may in fact be other tones coming
from the black hole, but the medium is incapable of transmitting them.

ryanm

[John L Rice]

"ryanm" > wrote in message
...
> "LeBaron & Alrich" > wrote in message
> .. .
> >
> > So, the prefection of the instrument issuing that note into the perfect
> > medium for its essential B-flat bigness proves the existence of god,
> > right?
> >
> Actually, what it shows is that there may in fact be other tones
coming
> from the black hole, but the medium is incapable of transmitting them.
>
> ryanm
>

Due to the extreme Doppler effect and relative time distortions, the sound
coming out of the black hole is probably just the tail end of the screams of
space faring aliens as they as sucked in.

"Holy fffFFFUUUU U U U U U U U
U U U


John L Rice

[John L Rice]

"Bob Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Rob Adelman wrote:
> >
> >
<http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/09/10/blackhole.music.reut/index.html>
> >
> > WASHINGTON, Sept 9 (Reuters) -- Big black holes sing bass. One
> > particularly monstrous black hole has probably been humming B flat for
> > billions of years, but at a pitch no human could hear, let alone sing,
> > astronomers said this week.
>
> Great. More research will probably reveal they hum Louie, Louie, just
> down 57 octaves.
>
> Bob Smith
> BS Studios
> we organize chaos
> http://www.bsstudios.com

Would an SM57 be the correct mic to record this with then? Or would you need
a mic that had an omni(potent) pattern?

John L Rice

[Chris Del Faro]

Or how about this theme song?

Who's the hole that won't cop out-when there's danger all about?

Shaft!

Can you dig it? <g>

Chris

[John Carville]

"squeeziechum" wrote:

> I have a VLF (Very Low Frequency) receiver that converts EM radiation in the
> range of ~ 20 kHz and under into acoustic energy so a human can hear it.
> Out in the wopwop, far enough from electrical power lines, you can listen to
> the sounds of earth's atmosphere. It's mostly from distant lightning
> strikes and sounds like sizzling bacon. Consider the possibility that some
> creature, somewhere, might have an organ or two that could do what my VLF
> receiver+amp+ears do; that is, "hear" the EM radiation.

I remember seeing a science programme where they claimed that sharks
could 'see' EM radiation, though it didn't discuss the frequencies
involved. Apparently, when a ship goes down, the sharks go after
anything with an EM field... Don't know much more about it than that
(and even that may be a misunderstanding) but I've always thought that
it was an interesting phenomenon. WHat else do various other species
detect that we don't? Shouldn't we by trying to establish
communication with whales, for example? Maybe they can tell us what
the big black hole is singing....

JC

[transducr]

(Willie K.Yee, M.D.) wrote in message >...
> On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:31:30 -0500, Harvey Gerst
> > wrote:
> >
> >It's precisely because light waves can't escape, black holes are forced to hum;
> >without light, they can't see the lyrics.
>
> What's the best mic for recording a black hole in space?

i think the real question here is:

what's the best mic for recording a black hole in space for under $200?

[transducr]

"John Cafarella" > wrote in message >...
> "Willie K.Yee, M.D." > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:31:30 -0500, Harvey Gerst
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >It's precisely because light waves can't escape, black holes are forced
> to hum;
> > >without light, they can't see the lyrics.
> >
> > What's the best mic for recording a black hole in space?
>
> > Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://www.bestweb.net/~wkyee
>
> I reckon a VACUUM tube mic might do the job...

well, yeah...and being that the source material is billions of years
old, you'd definitely want to impart some of that "Vintage Tube
Sound"™
:)

[transducr]

"squeeziechum" > wrote in message >...
> "Buster Mudd" > wrote in message
> om...
> >snip<
> > Not by humans, no. But we can extrapolate the note if we agree that
> > any periodic vibrations in an elastic medium can be called "sound". My
> > problem with the article is with the notion that regularly recurring
> > EM pulses are the same thing as periodic vibrations...
> >
> I have a VLF (Very Low Frequency) receiver that converts EM radiation in the
> range of ~ 20 kHz and under into acoustic energy so a human can hear it.
> Out in the wopwop, far enough from electrical power lines, you can listen to
> the sounds of earth's atmosphere. It's mostly from distant lightning
> strikes and sounds like sizzling bacon. Consider the possibility that some
> creature, somewhere, might have an organ or two that could do what my VLF
> receiver+amp+ears do; that is, "hear" the EM radiation.
>
> Bleeps,
> Phil / Houston
>

of course, those organs better be built to last over 900billion years
if they want to hear one cycle of htis "tone" :)

incidentally, i've heard some posted recordings of EM Radiation
through some links from a "lowercase sound/field recording" mailing
list i'm on. very interesting. it certainly isn't what i'd call
driving music or anything, but it is quite fascinating to hear.

[transducr]

(LeBaron & Alrich) wrote in message >...
> Bob Smith > wrote:
>
> > Great. More research will probably reveal they hum Louie, Louie, just
> > down 57 octaves.
>
> So you'll only need one mic!

and an FBI inquiry into the subversive and possibly un-american nature
of intergalactic rock and/or roll music.

[Cossie]

For more info. check out today's "Astronomy Picture of the Day".

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html

Of course, the picture will change tomorrow, but it will still be in the
archives.

Bill Balmer

[Steve O'Neill]

We might be able to hear the 144,115,188,075,855,872th overtone.

Bob Ross wrote:

> Buster Mudd wrote:
>
>
>>Well, if it just "pulses" once every billion years that not might fit
>>the description, but if it oscillates with a period of 1,000,000,000
>>years that _would_ count
>
>
> What if it's putting out a billion-year pulse wave with a 1% duty cycle?
>
> /Bob Ross
>
>

[Justin Ulysses Morse]

ItsTooLoud > wrote:

> >> they must be stoned if they hum because they forget the words to louie
> >> louie.
> >
> >How can anybody "forget" the words to Louie Louie, when nobody actually
> >knows what the words are?
>
> Louie Louie, me gotta go. Louie Louie, me gotta go.
> A fine little girl, she wait for me. Me catch the ship across the sea. I
> sailed
> the ship all alone. I never think I'll make it home.
> Louie Louie, me gotta go.
> Three nights and days we sailed the sea. Me think of girl constantly. On the
> ship, I dream she there. I smell the rose in her hair.
> Louie Louie, me gotta go.
> Me see Jamaican moon above. It won't be long me see me love. Me take her in my
> arms and then I tell her I never leave again.
> Louie Louie, me gotta go.
> (By Richard Berry. Copyright 1957-1963 by Limax Music Inc.)


No, that's not it. Have you heard the song?


ulysses

[Richard Kuschel]

(Ben Bradley) wrote in
:
>
>> This reminds me of the tree-falling-in-the-forest question: Is
>> there a species out in space that's long-lived enough and with hearing
>> that goes low enough to hear this 'tone'?
>
>In order to hear (as opposed to feel) a very low note, you'd need an ear
>
>drum near the same order of magnitude. For a wave period of a billion
>years, you'd need an ear somewhere around 100 million light years across.
>

Why do you think this? Some of the microphones that I have that will reproduce
a 20 Hz (or lower) are less than 0.1 inch diameter. 20 Hz has a wavelength of
55.2 feet.


Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

[Willie K.Yee, M.D.]

Steve O'Neill > wrote:
>Ben Bradley wrote:
>> This reminds me of the tree-falling-in-the-forest question: Is
>> there a species out in space that's long-lived enough and with hearing
>> that goes low enough to hear this 'tone'?
>
>What if it's a mating call, and there's another one out there?

Then somebody gets Banged, and it could be a Big one.
--


Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://www.bestweb.net/~wkyee
Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry http://www.pkc.com
Webmaster and Guitarist for the Big Blue Big Band http://www.bigbluebigband.org

[Geoff Wood]

"Steve O'Neill" > wrote in message
...
> Ben Bradley wrote:
> > This reminds me of the tree-falling-in-the-forest question: Is
> > there a species out in space that's long-lived enough and with hearing
> > that goes low enough to hear this 'tone'?
>
> What if it's a mating call, and there's another one out there?
>

Actually I have a brown hole that can emit frequencies on that note, but
maybe a few octaves higher. Quite a hum .


geoff

[Richard Kuschel]

If each black hole produces different notes, is the the basis for a celestial
choir?
Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

[Doc]

Rob Adelman > wrote in message >...

>
> WASHINGTON, Sept 9 (Reuters) -- Big black holes sing bass. One
> particularly monstrous black hole has probably been humming B flat for
> billions of years, but at a pitch no human could hear, let alone sing,
> astronomers said this week.


In space...noone can hear you hum....

[Abyssmal]

On 13 Sep 2003 09:11:41 -0700, (Doc) wrote:

>Rob Adelman > wrote in message >...
>
>>
>> WASHINGTON, Sept 9 (Reuters) -- Big black holes sing bass. One
>> particularly monstrous black hole has probably been humming B flat for
>> billions of years, but at a pitch no human could hear, let alone sing,
>> astronomers said this week.
>
>
>In space...noone can hear you hum....


Maybe a Humvee drove too close to the black hole, making it really B
flat.

Randall

[tim perry]

> No, that's not it. Have you heard the song?
>
>
> ulysses

http://www.louielouie.net/
http://www.louielouie.net/01-welcome.htm

LOUIE LOUIE.NET, the internet edition of the LOUIE REPORT. The LOUIE REPORT
is a publication that tracks progress of the upcoming documentary entitled
"THE MEANING OF LOUIE


let me look around some more... pehapd we can find the deep meaning of
"Jeremiah was a Bullfrog"

[tim perry]

"Ryan Mitchley" > wrote in message
...
> So what's the best mic under $500 to record a black hole?
>

3.75 times 10 to the 666 power Radio Shaak mics spaced one light year apart
..... and a very large mixer

[tim perry]

i believe that upon entering a black hole you would discover every tiny tape
recorder part that was ever dropped and subsequently disappeared on the way
to the floor.

and furthermore when the sound is decoded it will be the equivalent of Na Na
Na NA Na !

[Ben Bradley]

In rec.audio.pro, (Pete Larson) wrote:

>Doesn't the density of dust particles have to do with which black hole
>neighborhood you're in? And isn't sound frequency as well as the
>normal speed of sound standardly measured in our air and even at sea
>level? This leads me to think that that scientist Fabian guy is wrong
>about his "Bb". The photo looks clearly like a C# to me.

Due to the time it takes light to travel to us, this picture is
thousands (millions? I'm too lazy to go back and read how far away
this thing is) of years old. Since the pitch standard has changed
(from C=256cps or even lower to the current A=440Hz) over the
centuries, the note you see in the photograph may be different from
the actual note played, even though the pitch is the same.
Tune your period-instruments accordingly.

>Pete Larson
>(Remove XPAM for personal reply.)

-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley

[Justin Ulysses Morse]

In article >, tim perry
> wrote:

> > No, that's not it. Have you heard the song?
> >
> >
> > ulysses
>
> http://www.louielouie.net/
> http://www.louielouie.net/01-welcome.htm
>
> LOUIE LOUIE.NET, the internet edition of the LOUIE REPORT. The LOUIE REPORT
> is a publication that tracks progress of the upcoming documentary entitled
> "THE MEANING OF LOUIE


That's awesome. I love the official FBI conclusion: "Unintelligible at
any speed."

ulysses

[Richard Kuschel]

>
>let me look around some more... pehapd we can find the deep meaning of
>"Jeremiah was a Bullfrog"
>
>

Hoyt Axton was one of my clients and he said that the words were thrown
together just to work out the melody.

Three Dog night came to Axton asking for a new song which he had but the words
weren't finished. He said that he'd get the words to them when they were ready
to record. That didn't happen and the song was a #1 hit in about three weeks,
so the words were never changed.

Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

[Geoff Wood]

"Richard Kuschel" > wrote in message
...
> >
> >let me look around some more... pehapd we can find the deep meaning of
> >"Jeremiah was a Bullfrog"
> >
> >
>
> Hoyt Axton was one of my clients and he said that the words were thrown
> together just to work out the melody.
>
> Three Dog night came to Axton asking for a new song which he had but the
words
> weren't finished. He said that he'd get the words to them when they were
ready
> to record. That didn't happen and the song was a #1 hit in about three
weeks,
> so the words were never changed.

That must be how 'Blinded By The Light' was put together !

And back On Subject - does the Bb thang mean that the universe is in fact
woodwind ?

geoff