Do I need a CD Player? Is there a Difference?

[RD500]

I am looking to buy a Blu Ray player. My question is: Can I find a blu
ray player that will be as good playing CD's as it will be for DVD's
and Blu Ray discs, or will I need to purchase a separate CD player? I
am not sure whether the quality components built into a $1000 blu ray
player will also be as good for CD's? Any opinions or suggestions
would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Reg

[Kalman Rubinson[_3_]]

On 3 Jan 2010 22:58:55 GMT, RD500 > wrote:

>I am looking to buy a Blu Ray player. My question is: Can I find a blu
>ray player that will be as good playing CD's as it will be for DVD's
>and Blu Ray discs, or will I need to purchase a separate CD player? I
>am not sure whether the quality components built into a $1000 blu ray
>player will also be as good for CD's? Any opinions or suggestions
>would be greatly appreciated.

I recommended the Oppos in response to one of your other cross-posts.

Kal

[Edmund[_2_]]

"Kalman Rubinson" > wrote in message
...
> On 3 Jan 2010 22:58:55 GMT, RD500 > wrote:
>
>>I am looking to buy a Blu Ray player. My question is: Can I find a blu
>>ray player that will be as good playing CD's as it will be for DVD's
>>and Blu Ray discs, or will I need to purchase a separate CD player? I
>>am not sure whether the quality components built into a $1000 blu ray
>>player will also be as good for CD's? Any opinions or suggestions
>>would be greatly appreciated.
>
> I recommended the Oppos in response to one of your other cross-posts.
>
> Kal


Just looked on there website an see a player that
palys HD audio formats like SACD and DVD Audio
and the specs say :
Frequency: 20Hz - 20kHz (±0.4dB)

So that is no HD audio format.

Edmund

[Audio Empire]

On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 06:36:00 -0800, Edmund wrote
(in article >):

> "Kalman Rubinson" > wrote in message=20
> ...
>> On 3 Jan 2010 22:58:55 GMT, RD500 > wrote:
>>=20
>>> I am looking to buy a Blu Ray player. My question is: Can I find a bl=
u
>>> ray player that will be as good playing CD's as it will be for DVD's
>>> and Blu Ray discs, or will I need to purchase a separate CD player? I
>>> am not sure whether the quality components built into a $1000 blu ray
>>> player will also be as good for CD's? Any opinions or suggestions
>>> would be greatly appreciated.
>>=20
>> I recommended the Oppos in response to one of your other cross-posts.
>>=20
>> Kal
>=20
>=20
> Just looked on there website an see a player that
> palys HD audio formats like SACD and DVD Audio
> and the specs say :
> Frequency: 20Hz - 20kHz (=B10.4dB)
>=20
> So that is no HD audio format.
>=20
> Edmund=20
>=20

I've a friend who bought one of the Oppo Blu-Ray players. He said that h=
e=20
found the audio performance to be not very good. He said that for movies =
it=20
was more than adequate, but for music it sounded far less satisfying than=
his=20
old California Audio CD player. I've never heard one and cannot comment=20
personally on the sound, BUT I do know that the Oppo players do not actua=
lly=20
decode DSD (SACD), but rather will output it via HDMI to an outboard DSD=20
decoder (and who has one of those?) or play it internally by converting i=
t to=20
16-Bit, 44.1 KHz PCM first. I suspect it does the same for all of the DVD=
-A=20
formats as well, but I can't swear to it. Not an ideal situation, if true=
.. I=20
suggest that you contact them directly and talk to someone technical befo=
re=20
considering the Oppo for music playback.=20

If all you want is the ability to ACCESS DVD-A and SACD (as opposed to=20
actually playing them in their native formats and hearing the advantages =
of=20
these high-resolution formats) the Oppo might be fine, but as far as SACD=
is=20
concerned, most of them are hybrid discs with a RedBook PCM layer anyway,=
and=20
will thus already play on any CD player, so I really don't see the point.=
...=20

[Arny Krueger]

"RD500" > wrote in message

> I am looking to buy a Blu Ray player. My question is: Can
> I find a blu ray player that will be as good playing CD's
> as it will be for DVD's and Blu Ray discs, or will I need
> to purchase a separate CD player? I am not sure whether
> the quality components built into a $1000 blu ray player
> will also be as good for CD's? Any opinions or
> suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Any Blu Ray player worth its salt will do a commendable job with previous
generational optical media.

The big thing to watch out for is load and cue times. Blu Ray players can
take their sweet time figuring out what they have to play. This was also
true with DVD players, but indications are that its even gotten worse.

[Audio Empire]

On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 16:01:28 -0800, Arny Krueger wrote
(in article >):

> "RD500" > wrote in message
>
>> I am looking to buy a Blu Ray player. My question is: Can
>> I find a blu ray player that will be as good playing CD's
>> as it will be for DVD's and Blu Ray discs, or will I need
>> to purchase a separate CD player? I am not sure whether
>> the quality components built into a $1000 blu ray player
>> will also be as good for CD's? Any opinions or
>> suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Any Blu Ray player worth its salt will do a commendable job with previous
> generational optical media.
>
> The big thing to watch out for is load and cue times. Blu Ray players can
> take their sweet time figuring out what they have to play. This was also
> true with DVD players, but indications are that its even gotten worse.
>

That is correct. Most Blu-Ray players ARE slower than molasses in January
when loading . But, very few seem to support SACD (or DVD-A, for that
matter), which is fine if the OP doesn't need or want those formats. If he
does, except for the Oppo (which isn't very good on the audio side) those
combo players (like the Marantz all-in-one player) are obscenely expensive.

[Harry Lavo]

"Kalman Rubinson" > wrote in message
...
> On 3 Jan 2010 22:58:55 GMT, RD500 > wrote:
>
>>I am looking to buy a Blu Ray player. My question is: Can I find a blu
>>ray player that will be as good playing CD's as it will be for DVD's
>>and Blu Ray discs, or will I need to purchase a separate CD player? I
>>am not sure whether the quality components built into a $1000 blu ray
>>player will also be as good for CD's? Any opinions or suggestions
>>would be greatly appreciated.
>
> I recommended the Oppos in response to one of your other cross-posts.
>
> Kal

The one that would probably most interest you and fit your budget is the
Oppo BDP-83SE. It is a special addition of their universal player with
customized analog channels optimized for audiophile-quality sound. Here is
the introductory blurb from their home page:

"The OPPO BDP-83 Special Edition Blu-ray Disc Player is an exciting upgrade
based on the highly acclaimed BDP-83. Already well known for its exceptional
audio and video performance, the BDP-83 is upgraded with an all new analog
audio stage and improved power supply to become the Special Edition.
Designed for the discerning audio enthusiast, the OPPO BDP-83 Special
Edition Blu-ray Disc Player delivers an exceptionally wide dynamic range,
ultra low distortion, accurate sound stage and jitter-free music clarity via
its dedicated stereo and 7.1ch analog audio output."

And here are the specs on frequency response which you put a lot of stock
in, apparently:


Audio Characteristics** Frequency: Stereo 20Hz - 44kHz (±0.2dB),
20kHz - 96kHz (±1.1dB)
7.1CH 20Hz - 44kHz (±0.4dB)
Signal-to-Noise Ratio: >117dB (A-weighted, auto-mute off)
THD+N: < 0.002% (1kHz at 0dBFS, 20kHz LPF)
Dynamic Range: >104dB (24-bit unweighted)
Channel Separation: >106dB (24-bit unweighted)


Here is the link to that page on their site:

http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83SE/

[Kalman Rubinson[_3_]]

On 4 Jan 2010 14:36:00 GMT, "Edmund" > wrote:

>Just looked on there website an see a player that
>palys HD audio formats like SACD and DVD Audio
>and the specs say :
>Frequency: 20Hz - 20kHz (±0.4dB)
>
>So that is no HD audio format.

And what does that spec say about more extended response? Nada. All
it shows is linearity within the defined limits. Try reading some 3rd
party tests. LIke this:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/images/stories/2009/june-2009/oppo-bdp-83/oppo-bdp-83-blu-ray-player-fr-cd-dvd-a-sacd-analog-output-large.gif


Kal

[Kalman Rubinson[_3_]]

On 4 Jan 2010 18:25:00 GMT, Audio Empire >
wrote:

>I've a friend who bought one of the Oppo Blu-Ray players. He said that h=
>e=20
>found the audio performance to be not very good. He said that for movies =
>it=20
>was more than adequate, but for music it sounded far less satisfying than=
> his=20
>old California Audio CD player. I've never heard one and cannot comment=20
>personally on the sound, BUT I do know that the Oppo players do not actua=
>lly=20
>decode DSD (SACD), but rather will output it via HDMI to an outboard DSD=20
>decoder (and who has one of those?) or play it internally by converting i=
>t to=20
>16-Bit, 44.1 KHz PCM first. I suspect it does the same for all of the DVD=
>-A=20
>formats as well, but I can't swear to it. Not an ideal situation, if true=
>. I=20
>suggest that you contact them directly and talk to someone technical befo=
>re=20
>considering the Oppo for music playback.=20


>If all you want is the ability to ACCESS DVD-A and SACD (as opposed to=20
>actually playing them in their native formats and hearing the advantages =
>of=20
>these high-resolution formats) the Oppo might be fine,.....................

I do not know who your friend is or what he knows but some of what he
says is simply untrue. He may be confusing it with an earlier
non-Blu-Ray Oppo. Sure, contact Oppo. Also, read some independant
reviews.

>but as far as SACD=
> is=20
>concerned, most of them are hybrid discs with a RedBook PCM layer anyway,=
> and=20
>will thus already play on any CD player, so I really don't see the point.=
>..=20

??? The redbook layer is never multichannel and most SACDs do offer
multichannel DSD tracks.

Kal

[Audio Empire]

On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 03:52:16 -0800, Kalman Rubinson wrote
(in article >):

> On 4 Jan 2010 18:25:00 GMT, Audio Empire >
> wrote:
>
>> I've a friend who bought one of the Oppo Blu-Ray players. He said that h=
>> e=20
>> found the audio performance to be not very good. He said that for movies =
>> it=20
>> was more than adequate, but for music it sounded far less satisfying than=
>> his=20
>> old California Audio CD player. I've never heard one and cannot comment=20
>> personally on the sound, BUT I do know that the Oppo players do not actua=
>> lly=20
>> decode DSD (SACD), but rather will output it via HDMI to an outboard DSD=20
>> decoder (and who has one of those?) or play it internally by converting i=
>> t to=20
>> 16-Bit, 44.1 KHz PCM first. I suspect it does the same for all of the DVD=
>> -A=20
>> formats as well, but I can't swear to it. Not an ideal situation, if true=
>> . I=20
>> suggest that you contact them directly and talk to someone technical befo=
>> re=20
>> considering the Oppo for music playback.=20
>
>
>> If all you want is the ability to ACCESS DVD-A and SACD (as opposed to=20
>> actually playing them in their native formats and hearing the advantages =
>> of=20
>> these high-resolution formats) the Oppo might be fine,.....................
>
> I do not know who your friend is or what he knows but some of what he
> says is simply untrue. He may be confusing it with an earlier
> non-Blu-Ray Oppo. Sure, contact Oppo. Also, read some independant
> reviews.
>
>> but as far as SACD=
>> is=20
>> concerned, most of them are hybrid discs with a RedBook PCM layer anyway,=
>> and=20
>> will thus already play on any CD player, so I really don't see the point.=
>> ..=20
>
> ??? The redbook layer is never multichannel and most SACDs do offer
> multichannel DSD tracks.

Not if it plays SACD as 16/44.1 PCM it isn't.
This from the DBP-83 feature list:

"Users can select whether to output the DSD (Direct Stream Digital) signal in
its native format or convert it into PCM."

And from the Specifications:

"HDMI Audio: Stereo, up to 7.1ch high-resolution PCM, up to 5.1ch DSD
bitstream or LPCM conversion of Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby
TrueHD, DTS, DTS-HD High Resolution Audio, and DTS-HD Master Audio."

That's no different from the way Oppo advertised the SACD capability of their
older non-Blu-Ray players and I take it to mean that the player outputs SACD
as PCM directly, but will pass the SACD native DSD format bitstream to an
outboard processor via HDMI as this is how the older machines worked with
SACD as well. Of course, I could be wrong, but that's how it reads to me.

As far as my friend's comments with regard to sound quality, If you read the
Stereophile review of the unit:

http://www.stereophile.com/musicintheround/music_in_the_round_37/index2.html

They more or less agree with his assessment of the unit's audio performance.

[Kalman Rubinson[_3_]]

On 5 Jan 2010 17:21:28 GMT, Audio Empire
> wrote:

>Not if it plays SACD as 16/44.1 PCM it isn't.

Sure but that ain't so.

>This from the DBP-83 feature list:
>
>"Users can select whether to output the DSD (Direct Stream Digital) signal in
>its native format or convert it into PCM."

Yup and both are full bitrate. I know from experience
reading the output on my display.

>And from the Specifications:
>
>"HDMI Audio: Stereo, up to 7.1ch high-resolution PCM, up to 5.1ch DSD
>bitstream or LPCM conversion of Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby
>TrueHD, DTS, DTS-HD High Resolution Audio, and DTS-HD Master Audio."

And where does that say anything about restricted sampling
or bit rates?

>That's no different from the way Oppo advertised the SACD capability of their
>older non-Blu-Ray players and I take it to mean that the player outputs SACD
>as PCM directly, but will pass the SACD native DSD format bitstream to an
>outboard processor via HDMI as this is how the older machines worked with
>SACD as well. Of course, I could be wrong, but that's how it reads to me.

So what? All words, no numbers.

>As far as my friend's comments with regard to sound quality, If you read the
>Stereophile review of the unit:
>
>http://www.stereophile.com/musicintheround/music_in_the_round_37/index2.html
>
>They more or less agree with his assessment of the unit's audio performance.

Since I wrote that review, I am familiar with the
assessment. However, as I originally posted (on one of the
OP's many crossposts), the 83SE is much better and highly
recommended.

Kal

[Steven Sullivan]

Kalman Rubinson > wrote:
> On 5 Jan 2010 17:21:28 GMT, Audio Empire
> > wrote:

> >Not if it plays SACD as 16/44.1 PCM it isn't.

> Sure but that ain't so.

It ain't even so for its lowly ancestor the
Oppo 720HD, which does convert DSD to PCM...at 88.2 kHz/24bit.

> >"HDMI Audio: Stereo, up to 7.1ch high-resolution PCM, up to 5.1ch DSD
> >bitstream or LPCM conversion of Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby
> >TrueHD, DTS, DTS-HD High Resolution Audio, and DTS-HD Master Audio."

> And where does that say anything about restricted sampling
> or bit rates?

> >
> >They more or less agree with his assessment of the unit's audio performance.

> Since I wrote that review, I am familiar with the
> assessment.

LOL. ;>

--
-S
We have it in our power to begin the world over again - Thomas Paine

[Steven Sullivan]

Audio Empire > wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 06:36:00 -0800, Edmund wrote
> (in article >):

> > "Kalman Rubinson" > wrote in message=20
> > ...
> >> On 3 Jan 2010 22:58:55 GMT, RD500 > wrote:
> >>=20
> >>> I am looking to buy a Blu Ray player. My question is: Can I find a bl=
> u
> >>> ray player that will be as good playing CD's as it will be for DVD's
> >>> and Blu Ray discs, or will I need to purchase a separate CD player? I
> >>> am not sure whether the quality components built into a $1000 blu ray
> >>> player will also be as good for CD's? Any opinions or suggestions
> >>> would be greatly appreciated.
> >>=20
> >> I recommended the Oppos in response to one of your other cross-posts.
> >>=20
> >> Kal
> >=20
> >=20
> > Just looked on there website an see a player that
> > palys HD audio formats like SACD and DVD Audio
> > and the specs say :
> > Frequency: 20Hz - 20kHz (=B10.4dB)
> >=20
> > So that is no HD audio format.
> >=20
> > Edmund=20
> >=20

> I've a friend who bought one of the Oppo Blu-Ray players. He said that h=
> e=20
> found the audio performance to be not very good. He said that for movies =
> it=20
> was more than adequate, but for music it sounded far less satisfying than=
> his=20
> old California Audio CD player.

He was probably imagining the difference. Or maybe the output of the
Cal Audio player was just a dB or so louder.



--
-S
We have it in our power to begin the world over again - Thomas Paine

[Audio Empire]

On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 06:11:37 -0800, Steven Sullivan wrote
(in article >):

> Audio Empire > wrote:
>> On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 06:36:00 -0800, Edmund wrote
>> (in article >):
>
>>> "Kalman Rubinson" > wrote in message=20
>>> ...
>>>> On 3 Jan 2010 22:58:55 GMT, RD500 > wrote:
>>>> =20
>>>>> I am looking to buy a Blu Ray player. My question is: Can I find a bl=
>> u
>>>>> ray player that will be as good playing CD's as it will be for DVD's
>>>>> and Blu Ray discs, or will I need to purchase a separate CD player? I
>>>>> am not sure whether the quality components built into a $1000 blu ray
>>>>> player will also be as good for CD's? Any opinions or suggestions
>>>>> would be greatly appreciated.
>>>> =20
>>>> I recommended the Oppos in response to one of your other cross-posts.
>>>> =20
>>>> Kal
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> Just looked on there website an see a player that
>>> palys HD audio formats like SACD and DVD Audio
>>> and the specs say :
>>> Frequency: 20Hz - 20kHz (=B10.4dB)
>>> =20
>>> So that is no HD audio format.
>>> =20
>>> Edmund=20
>>> =20
>
>> I've a friend who bought one of the Oppo Blu-Ray players. He said that h=
>> e=20
>> found the audio performance to be not very good. He said that for movies =
>> it=20
>> was more than adequate, but for music it sounded far less satisfying than=
>> his=20
>> old California Audio CD player.
>
> He was probably imagining the difference. Or maybe the output of the
> Cal Audio player was just a dB or so louder.
>
>
>
>

Possibly, I can't say. I'm merely advising caution and that the OP check out
these units carefully before making a choice.