How to Quickly Test Used HR824s?

[JPD]

Hello, experts. I'm shopping for a pair of used studio monitors. (I
want to make some home-recordings of solo classical guitar.) There's a
local Craigslist ad for a pair of HR824s going for $350 -- a good deal
if they are in good shape. But in the photos they looked pretty well-
traveled. The cabinets are scuffed and scratched and a couple of the
corners are chipped. The upper speakers (tweeters?) look OK, but the
outer circumference of the lower speakers look a little bruised and
grimy. I don't know what they've been used for, but it looks like
they've been on the road a bit. Maybe the seller used them for PA
work. I have no way of knowing for sure.

So, my question: Is there a quick way for me to test these monitors
for quality -- or at least to rule out some of predictable problems
one might expect if the wear and tear on these monitors is more than
just cosmetic? I don't know anything at all about this subject. I
wouldn't know what to listen for besides gross distortion or snap-
crackle-pops. And I don't know, personally, any experts who can check
them out for me.

Should I just bring an MP3 player, hook the monitors up, and turn them
up full blast to see if anything explodes? Are there any quick checks
I can perform to assure myself that I'm not about to waste $350?

John Philip Dimick
Guitarist.com

[Scott Dorsey]

JPD > wrote:
>
>Should I just bring an MP3 player, hook the monitors up, and turn them
>up full blast to see if anything explodes? Are there any quick checks
>I can perform to assure myself that I'm not about to waste $350?

Play sweep tones. If the drivers are damaged, you can often hear
distortion at one particular frequency as they sweep up or down.
Likewise if there is something rattling on the cabinet you'll hear
that too.

Don't be afraid to lowball the guy either.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers]

JPD wrote:

> There's a
> local Craigslist ad for a pair of HR824s going for $350 -- a good deal
> if they are in good shape. But in the photos they looked pretty well-
> traveled. The cabinets are scuffed and scratched and a couple of the
> corners are chipped. The upper speakers (tweeters?) look OK, but the
> outer circumference of the lower speakers look a little bruised and
> grimy.

I wouldn't worry about chips in the cabinet, and it's hard to tell from
a photo
what "bruised and grimy" really is.

> I don't know what they've been used for, but it looks like
> they've been on the road a bit. Maybe the seller used them for PA
> work. I have no way of knowing for sure.

Well, you could ask the seller how the cabinets got banged up like that, and
how he was using them. Also, when the last time he used them was.

> So, my question: Is there a quick way for me to test these monitors
> for quality -- or at least to rule out some of predictable problems
> one might expect if the wear and tear on these monitors is more than
> just cosmetic?

You have to go over there, set them up, and listen to them. If he's not
willing
to let you do that, pass up the great deal. He may know something he's not
willing to admit until he has your money.

> Should I just bring an MP3 player, hook the monitors up, and turn them
> up full blast to see if anything explodes? Are there any quick checks
> I can perform to assure myself that I'm not about to waste $350?

You'll probably need to bring more than your MP3 player unless the seller
has them already hooked up. At least you'll need appropriate cables, and
you may not be able to get them very loud with your MP3 player. If your
MP3 player will play WAV files, you might try that approach, ripping a
couple
of CDs that you're familiar with, to WAV format, and use that as a test.
Also,
the sweept tone that Scott suggested is a good test for tears or cabinet
resonances (loose braces inside) that you might not see. I wouldn't be
surprised if there isn't a web site where you can download a sweet tone
WAV file. Or there are programs (even some DAWs) that will generate a
sweep tone file.

You may have better results if you make up a test CD rather than use your
MP3 player.

But the important thing is to listen and inspect them yourself.

[JPD]

On Nov 15, 12:43*pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> JPD > wrote:
>
> >Should I just bring an MP3 player, hook the monitors up, and turn them
> >up full blast to see if anything explodes? Are there any quick checks
> >I can perform to assure myself that I'm not about to waste $350?
>
> Play sweep tones. *If the drivers are damaged, you can often hear
> distortion at one particular frequency as they sweep up or down. *
> Likewise if there is something rattling on the cabinet you'll hear
> that too.

Bingo. Thank you!

[JPD]

On Nov 16, 5:17*am, Mike Rivers > wrote:
> JPD wrote:

> > Should I just bring an MP3 player, hook the monitors up, and turn them
> > up full blast to see if anything explodes? Are there any quick checks
> > I can perform to assure myself that I'm not about to waste $350?
>
> If your MP3 player will play WAV files, you might try that approach,
> ripping a couple of CDs that you're familiar with, to WAV format,
> and use that as a test.

My Edirol R-09HR player does play WAVs, actually. Thanks for that
idea.

> You may have better results if you make up a test CD rather than use your
> MP3 player.

Another good one. Thank you. With the help from Scott and you, I feel
like I won't be going in quite so blind -- er, deaf!

[hank alrich]

Mike Rivers > wrote:

> JPD wrote:
>
> > There's a
> > local Craigslist ad for a pair of HR824s going for $350 -- a good deal
> > if they are in good shape. But in the photos they looked pretty well-
> > traveled. The cabinets are scuffed and scratched and a couple of the
> > corners are chipped. The upper speakers (tweeters?) look OK, but the
> > outer circumference of the lower speakers look a little bruised and
> > grimy.
>
> I wouldn't worry about chips in the cabinet, and it's hard to tell from
> a photo
> what "bruised and grimy" really is.
>
> > I don't know what they've been used for, but it looks like
> > they've been on the road a bit. Maybe the seller used them for PA
> > work. I have no way of knowing for sure.
>
> Well, you could ask the seller how the cabinets got banged up like that, and
> how he was using them. Also, when the last time he used them was.
>
> > So, my question: Is there a quick way for me to test these monitors
> > for quality -- or at least to rule out some of predictable problems
> > one might expect if the wear and tear on these monitors is more than
> > just cosmetic?
>
> You have to go over there, set them up, and listen to them. If he's not
> willing
> to let you do that, pass up the great deal. He may know something he's not
> willing to admit until he has your money.
>
> > Should I just bring an MP3 player, hook the monitors up, and turn them
> > up full blast to see if anything explodes? Are there any quick checks
> > I can perform to assure myself that I'm not about to waste $350?
>
> You'll probably need to bring more than your MP3 player unless the seller
> has them already hooked up. At least you'll need appropriate cables, and
> you may not be able to get them very loud with your MP3 player. If your
> MP3 player will play WAV files, you might try that approach, ripping a
> couple
> of CDs that you're familiar with, to WAV format, and use that as a test.
> Also,
> the sweept tone that Scott suggested is a good test for tears or cabinet
> resonances (loose braces inside) that you might not see. I wouldn't be
> surprised if there isn't a web site where you can download a sweet tone
> WAV file. Or there are programs (even some DAWs) that will generate a
> sweep tone file.
>
> You may have better results if you make up a test CD rather than use your
> MP3 player.
>
> But the important thing is to listen and inspect them yourself.

I will note that the asking price is very low. That would cause me to
wonder about their condition, or to question their provenance.

--
ha
shut up and play your guitar

[JPD]

On Nov 16, 7:46*am, (hank alrich) wrote:
> Mike Rivers > wrote:
> > JPD wrote:
>
> > > There's a
> > > local Craigslist ad for a pair of HR824s going for $350 -- a good deal
> > > if they are in good shape. But in the photos they looked pretty well-
> > > traveled. The cabinets are scuffed and scratched and a couple of the
> > > corners are chipped. The upper speakers (tweeters?) look OK, but the
> > > outer circumference of the lower speakers look a little bruised and
> > > grimy. *
>
> > I wouldn't worry about chips in the cabinet, and it's hard to tell from
> > a photo
> > what "bruised and grimy" really is.
>
> > > I don't know what they've been used for, but it looks like
> > > they've been on the road a bit. Maybe the seller used them for PA
> > > work. I have no way of knowing for sure.
>
> > Well, you could ask the seller how the cabinets got banged up like that, and
> > how he was using them. Also, when the last time he used them was.
>
> > > So, my question: Is there a quick way for me to test these monitors
> > > for quality -- or at least to rule out some of predictable problems
> > > one might expect if the wear and tear on these monitors is more than
> > > just cosmetic?
>
> > You have to go over there, set them up, and listen to them. If he's not
> > willing
> > to let you do that, pass up the great deal. He may know something he's not
> > willing to admit until he has your money.
>
> > > Should I just bring an MP3 player, hook the monitors up, and turn them
> > > up full blast to see if anything explodes? Are there any quick checks
> > > I can perform to assure myself that I'm not about to waste $350?
>
> > You'll probably need to bring more than your MP3 player unless the seller
> > has them already hooked up. At least you'll need appropriate cables, and
> > you may not be able to get them very loud with your MP3 player. If your
> > MP3 player will play WAV files, you might try that approach, ripping a
> > couple
> > of CDs that you're familiar with, to WAV format, and use that as a test..
> > Also,
> > the sweept tone that Scott suggested is a good test for tears or cabinet
> > resonances (loose braces inside) that you might not see. I wouldn't be
> > surprised if there isn't a web site where you can download a sweet tone
> > WAV file. Or there are programs (even some DAWs) that will generate a
> > sweep tone file.
>
> > You may have better results if you make up a test CD rather than use your
> > MP3 player.
>
> > But the important thing is to listen and inspect them yourself.
>
> I will note that the asking price is very low. That would cause me to
> wonder about their condition, or to question their provenance.

Exactly. And he's had them listed at a low price for a few weeks. He
started at $450 and he's been coming down steadily. So I'm guessing
the mileage that shows in the photos probably looks even worse in real
life. (I doubt he's showing pix that put the gear is their *worst*
light...)

http://preview.tinyurl.com/yc2qfpr

Note the corrosion or grime or whatever that is around the woofers.
Other photos show that those raised "collars" around the woofers have
some flat spots, almost "dents."

On the other hand, he lives out 60 miles in the boonies, so maybe
that's why he's getting little action and why the price is so low.
Armed with some sweep tone files and a few of my favorite CDs, I might
just go find out!

[Mike Rivers]

JPD wrote:

> Note the corrosion or grime or whatever that is around the woofers.
> Other photos show that those raised "collars" around the woofers have
> some flat spots, almost "dents."

I didn't see anything in the picture that would worry me. Little
imperfections
in the surround rarely affect anything. Small tears can be repaired. Big
tears can be a problem.

> On the other hand, he lives out 60 miles in the boonies, so maybe
> that's why he's getting little action and why the price is so low.

Also, boonies of where? 60 miles outside of Los Angeles or San Francisco
should still get a fair amount of action. 60 miles outside of Oklahoma City
there probably wouldn't be many takers.

[hank alrich]

Mike Rivers > wrote:

> JPD wrote:
>
> > Note the corrosion or grime or whatever that is around the woofers.
> > Other photos show that those raised "collars" around the woofers have
> > some flat spots, almost "dents."
>
> I didn't see anything in the picture that would worry me. Little
> imperfections
> in the surround rarely affect anything. Small tears can be repaired. Big
> tears can be a problem.

I agree. Those don't look gorgeous, but they also don't look trashed.

That doesn't mean the drivers aren't blown. <g>

> > On the other hand, he lives out 60 miles in the boonies, so maybe
> > that's why he's getting little action and why the price is so low.
>
> Also, boonies of where? 60 miles outside of Los Angeles or San Francisco
> should still get a fair amount of action. 60 miles outside of Oklahoma City
> there probably wouldn't be many takers.

What you said.
--
ha
shut up and play your guitar

[JPD]

On Nov 16, 5:17*am, Mike Rivers > wrote:
> JPD wrote:
> > There's a
> > local Craigslist ad for a pair of HR824s going for $350 -- a good deal
> > if they are in good shape. But in the photos they looked pretty well-
> > traveled. The cabinets are scuffed and scratched and a couple of the
> > corners are chipped. The upper speakers (tweeters?) look OK, but the
> > outer circumference of the lower speakers look a little bruised and
> > grimy. *
>
> I wouldn't worry about chips in the cabinet, and it's hard to tell from
> a photo
> what "bruised and grimy" really is.
>
> > I don't know what they've been used for, but it looks like
> > they've been on the road a bit. Maybe the seller used them for PA
> > work. I have no way of knowing for sure.
>
> Well, you could ask the seller how the cabinets got banged up like that, and
> how he was using them. Also, when the last time he used them was.
>
> > So, my question: Is there a quick way for me to test these monitors
> > for quality -- or at least to rule out some of predictable problems
> > one might expect if the wear and tear on these monitors is more than
> > just cosmetic?
>
> You have to go over there, set them up, and listen to them. If he's not
> willing
> to let you do that, pass up the great deal. He may know something he's not
> willing to admit until he has your money.
>
> > Should I just bring an MP3 player, hook the monitors up, and turn them
> > up full blast to see if anything explodes? Are there any quick checks
> > I can perform to assure myself that I'm not about to waste $350?
>
> You'll probably need to bring more than your MP3 player unless the seller
> has them already hooked up. At least you'll need appropriate cables, and
> you may not be able to get them very loud with your MP3 player. If your
> MP3 player will play WAV files, you might try that approach, ripping a
> couple
> of CDs that you're familiar with, to WAV format, and use that as a test.
> Also,
> the sweept tone that Scott suggested is a good test for tears or cabinet
> resonances (loose braces inside) that you might not see. I wouldn't be
> surprised if there isn't a web site where you can download a sweet tone
> WAV file. Or there are programs (even some DAWs) that will generate a
> sweep tone file.
>
> You may have better results if you make up a test CD rather than use your
> MP3 player.
>
> But the important thing is to listen and inspect them yourself.

In the interest of "giving back" (old-school Usenet philosophy),
here's an online source of free test files (sweeps, warbles, etc.) in
WAV format:

http://binkster.net/extras.shtml#cd

[Chip Borton]

Mike Rivers wrote:

>
> You'll probably need to bring more than your MP3 player unless the seller
> has them already hooked up. At least you'll need appropriate cables, and
> you may not be able to get them very loud with your MP3 player.

Personally, I would be VERY cautious hooking up anything with a line out
directly into any powered monitors without some sort of passive volume
control in between. You can easily damage your ears or the monitors or
both. I would bring a small mixer or passive volume control to do your
test.

[Arny Krueger]

"Chip Borton" > wrote in message

> Mike Rivers wrote:
>
>>
>> You'll probably need to bring more than your MP3 player
>> unless the seller has them already hooked up. At least
>> you'll need appropriate cables, and you may not be able
>> to get them very loud with your MP3 player.
>
> Personally, I would be VERY cautious hooking up anything
> with a line out directly into any powered monitors
> without some sort of passive volume control in between.
> You can easily damage your ears or the monitors or both.
> I would bring a small mixer or passive volume control to
> do your test.

You don't trust the HR824 input sensitivity control?

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 12:48:59 -0700, Chip Borton
> wrote:

>Mike Rivers wrote:
>
>>
>> You'll probably need to bring more than your MP3 player unless the seller
>> has them already hooked up. At least you'll need appropriate cables, and
>> you may not be able to get them very loud with your MP3 player.
>
>Personally, I would be VERY cautious hooking up anything with a line out
>directly into any powered monitors without some sort of passive volume
>control in between. You can easily damage your ears or the monitors or
>both. I would bring a small mixer or passive volume control to do your
>test.

Turning the level knob on the monitors on before starting should be
sufficient

[Gareth Magennis]

"JPD" > wrote in message
...
On Nov 16, 7:46 am, (hank alrich) wrote:
> Mike Rivers > wrote:
> > JPD wrote:
>
> > > There's a
> > > local Craigslist ad for a pair of HR824s going for $350 -- a good deal
> > > if they are in good shape. But in the photos they looked pretty well-
> > > traveled. The cabinets are scuffed and scratched and a couple of the
> > > corners are chipped. The upper speakers (tweeters?) look OK, but the
> > > outer circumference of the lower speakers look a little bruised and
> > > grimy.
>
> > I wouldn't worry about chips in the cabinet, and it's hard to tell from
> > a photo
> > what "bruised and grimy" really is.
>
> > > I don't know what they've been used for, but it looks like
> > > they've been on the road a bit. Maybe the seller used them for PA
> > > work. I have no way of knowing for sure.
>
> > Well, you could ask the seller how the cabinets got banged up like that,
> > and
> > how he was using them. Also, when the last time he used them was.
>
> > > So, my question: Is there a quick way for me to test these monitors
> > > for quality -- or at least to rule out some of predictable problems
> > > one might expect if the wear and tear on these monitors is more than
> > > just cosmetic?
>
> > You have to go over there, set them up, and listen to them. If he's not
> > willing
> > to let you do that, pass up the great deal. He may know something he's
> > not
> > willing to admit until he has your money.
>
> > > Should I just bring an MP3 player, hook the monitors up, and turn them
> > > up full blast to see if anything explodes? Are there any quick checks
> > > I can perform to assure myself that I'm not about to waste $350?
>
> > You'll probably need to bring more than your MP3 player unless the
> > seller
> > has them already hooked up. At least you'll need appropriate cables, and
> > you may not be able to get them very loud with your MP3 player. If your
> > MP3 player will play WAV files, you might try that approach, ripping a
> > couple
> > of CDs that you're familiar with, to WAV format, and use that as a test.
> > Also,
> > the sweept tone that Scott suggested is a good test for tears or cabinet
> > resonances (loose braces inside) that you might not see. I wouldn't be
> > surprised if there isn't a web site where you can download a sweet tone
> > WAV file. Or there are programs (even some DAWs) that will generate a
> > sweep tone file.
>
> > You may have better results if you make up a test CD rather than use
> > your
> > MP3 player.
>
> > But the important thing is to listen and inspect them yourself.
>
> I will note that the asking price is very low. That would cause me to
> wonder about their condition, or to question their provenance.

Exactly. And he's had them listed at a low price for a few weeks. He
started at $450 and he's been coming down steadily. So I'm guessing
the mileage that shows in the photos probably looks even worse in real
life. (I doubt he's showing pix that put the gear is their *worst*
light...)

http://preview.tinyurl.com/yc2qfpr

Note the corrosion or grime or whatever that is around the woofers.
Other photos show that those raised "collars" around the woofers have
some flat spots, almost "dents."

On the other hand, he lives out 60 miles in the boonies, so maybe
that's why he's getting little action and why the price is so low.
Armed with some sweep tone files and a few of my favorite CDs, I might
just go find out!



If you're going to make some sweep tones (excellent idea), add a Pink Noise
section as well. Often drivers or the crossovers can get damaged rather
than blown altogether, and not have the right frequency response. You might
not spot this with a sweep test. A quick A/B with pink noise is the
easiest and fastest way to establish one of the speakers sounds different to
the other.



Gareth.



Gareth.

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:49:27 -0000, "Gareth Magennis"
> wrote:

>
>If you're going to make some sweep tones (excellent idea), add a Pink Noise
>section as well. Often drivers or the crossovers can get damaged rather
>than blown altogether, and not have the right frequency response. You might
>not spot this with a sweep test. A quick A/B with pink noise is the
>easiest and fastest way to establish one of the speakers sounds different to
>the other.

But, if you're not used to working with test tones, try them out on
other speakers first. Or you may end up hoping for impossible
perfection. And they can tell you as much about the room as about the
speakers.

[Chip Borton]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "Chip Borton" > wrote in message
>
>> Mike Rivers wrote:
>>
>>> You'll probably need to bring more than your MP3 player
>>> unless the seller has them already hooked up. At least
>>> you'll need appropriate cables, and you may not be able
>>> to get them very loud with your MP3 player.
>> Personally, I would be VERY cautious hooking up anything
>> with a line out directly into any powered monitors
>> without some sort of passive volume control in between.
>> You can easily damage your ears or the monitors or both.
>> I would bring a small mixer or passive volume control to
>> do your test.
>
> You don't trust the HR824 input sensitivity control?
>
>

No, I would not trust them. These are used and anything could be
wrong with them. Even If they were new I would still
put something in between. This is just how I would do
it as a matter of course. Just my personal opinion.

[Nickyrash]

On Nov 16, 5:17*am, Mike Rivers > wrote:
> JPD wrote:
> > There's a
> > local Craigslist ad for a pair of HR824s going for $350 -- a good deal
> > if they are in good shape. But in the photos they looked pretty well-
> > traveled. The cabinets are scuffed and scratched and a couple of the
> > corners are chipped. The upper speakers (tweeters?) look OK, but the
> > outer circumference of the lower speakers look a little bruised and
> > grimy. *
>
> I wouldn't worry about chips in the cabinet, and it's hard to tell from
> a photo
> what "bruised and grimy" really is.
>
> > I don't know what they've been used for, but it looks like
> > they've been on the road a bit. Maybe the seller used them for PA
> > work. I have no way of knowing for sure.
>
> Well, you could ask the seller how the cabinets got banged up like that, and
> how he was using them. Also, when the last time he used them was.
>
> > So, my question: Is there a quick way for me to test these monitors
> > for quality -- or at least to rule out some of predictable problems
> > one might expect if the wear and tear on these monitors is more than
> > just cosmetic?
>
> You have to go over there, set them up, and listen to them. If he's not
> willing
> to let you do that, pass up the great deal. He may know something he's not
> willing to admit until he has your money.
>
> > Should I just bring an MP3 player, hook the monitors up, and turn them
> > up full blast to see if anything explodes? Are there any quick checks
> > I can perform to assure myself that I'm not about to waste $350?
>
> You'll probably need to bring more than your MP3 player unless the seller
> has them already hooked up. At least you'll need appropriate cables, and
> you may not be able to get them very loud with your MP3 player. If your
> MP3 player will play WAV files, you might try that approach, ripping a
> couple
> of CDs that you're familiar with, to WAV format, and use that as a test.
> Also,
> the sweept tone that Scott suggested is a good test for tears or cabinet
> resonances (loose braces inside) that you might not see. I wouldn't be
> surprised if there isn't a web site where you can download a sweet tone
> WAV file. Or there are programs (even some DAWs) that will generate a
> sweep tone file.
>
> You may have better results if you make up a test CD rather than use your
> MP3 player.
>
> But the important thing is to listen and inspect them yourself.

In the interest of "giving back" (old-school Usenet philosophy),
here's an online source of free test files (sweeps, warbles, etc.) in
WAV format:

http://binkster.net/extras.shtml#cd

Hi,

Thnaks for sharing

[Mike Rivers]

Chip Borton wrote:

> Personally, I would be VERY cautious hooking up anything with a line out
> directly into any powered monitors without some sort of passive volume
> control in between. You can easily damage your ears or the monitors or
> both.

The speakers have an input level control. Hopefully between the two of
them, they'll have the good sense to turn it down before starting the
music.

[Arkansan Raider]

JPD wrote:

>
> In the interest of "giving back" (old-school Usenet philosophy),
> here's an online source of free test files (sweeps, warbles, etc.) in
> WAV format:
>
> http://binkster.net/extras.shtml#cd

Thanks much!


---Jeff

[cporro]

room eq wizard has a sweep scale i believe you can set the length of.
it's one of those room acoustic test software packages. it was free
when i got it. btw, i love my 824s. imho, good bang for the buck.