Re: Ebay sometimes doesn't make sense...

[Brothermark]

just as a side point regarding ebay madness, the robot-bidder thing is
stupid.

Imagine an item with a starting price of $50 but a reserve of $100
I come along and quite fancy buying the item so I bid $150. Ebay places my
bid at $55 and the reserve is therefore not met.

Then the auction ends. I'm the high bidder with $55 but I can't have it
because the reserve wasn't met even though bid over the reserve amount.

STUPIDDD

[axtogrind]

"Brothermark" > wrote in message
...
> just as a side point regarding ebay madness, the robot-bidder thing is
> stupid.
>
> Imagine an item with a starting price of $50 but a reserve of $100
> I come along and quite fancy buying the item so I bid $150. Ebay places my
> bid at $55 and the reserve is therefore not met.
>
> Then the auction ends. I'm the high bidder with $55 but I can't have it
> because the reserve wasn't met even though bid over the reserve amount.
>
> STUPIDDD


If the reserve is $100 and you bid $150, your bid will be $100 (the reserve)
unless and until someone bids over $150.

atg

[Thomas Bishop]

"axtogrind" > wrote in message
> If the reserve is $100 and you bid $150, your bid will be $100 (the
reserve)
> unless and until someone bids over $150.

No, you need to go back and read a little about bidding on eBay. The
reserve and the starting bid price are two different things. Brothermark is
right on, and it sucks big time. That's why I always include a Buy-It-Now
price when selling and first look at auctions with BIN prices when bidding.

[L David Matheny]

"Thomas Bishop" > wrote in message . ..
> "axtogrind" > wrote in message
> > If the reserve is $100 and you bid $150, your bid will be $100
> > (the reserve) unless and until someone bids over $150.
>
> No, you need to go back and read a little about bidding on eBay.
> The reserve and the starting bid price are two different things.
> Brothermark is right on, and it sucks big time. That's why I always
> include a Buy-It-Now price when selling and first look at auctions
> with BIN prices when bidding.
>
Unless eBay changed their bidding rules recently, "axtogrind" has
it almost right. The first bid at or above the reserve price will be
accepted at the reserve price. In his example your bid would be
$100 until someone else bids over $100, then you would keep
outbidding them until they bid more than your maximum of $150
(which is probably what "axtogrind" meant to say).

[Ricky W. Hunt]

One thing I learned is to put very low (preferably no reserve) on items.
Most people will not bid on anything with a reserve (or a very high one)
even if the reserve is only a 10th of what the item usually sells for on
eBay. Things will sell for much higher simply because of the "bidding war"
that goes on once a bunch of people have started bidding on it (which they
will if you have no reserve). I believe most people just like bidding and
feeling like their "winning" much more than the fact they need the item or
if it's a bargain.


"Analogeezer" > wrote in message
m...
> No suprise to most people here I suspect...
>
> I've been selling old stuff on Ebay, mostly lowball stuff I wouldn't
> bother even bringing up around here.
>
> So last weekend I listed six items, two of which went right away with
> "Buy it Now".
>
> One of these items was only $20 less (20 percent) than you can buy a
> new one for. Granted I had the box and all the stuff (manual,
> styrofoam insert, etc.), I guess they figured it was good as new for
> 20 percent less so at least THAT made some sense.
>
> I put fairly low reserves on all the stuff, and looking at the market
> value of these items on Ebay figured that I should have no problem
> meeting any of the reserves.
>
> One of the items was a cheap Kawai synth...I didn't figure to get a
> whole lot but I had all three manuals, the original box and inserts, a
> RAM card loaded with third party patches, etc.
>
> This one didn't make reserve at all (just over $100), kind of weird as
> other synths of the same model with all the stuff sold for much, much
> more...I've got decent feedback (all positive +15), I guess it was
> just timing or something.
>
> Here's the weird part though:
>
> I had a Tascam 34 that needs work, cosmetically great but in the
> auction I stated for repair or parts, right up front.
>
> The 34 went for the same price ($86) that the synth peaked at....I had
> not figured it would fetch that much.
>
> THEN I sold a Peavey bass preamp, single rack space thing which went
> for over a $100. That unit is in great shape, but did have a
> flaw....the power switch is stuck in full time. But it went for over a
> $100...its a Peavey?
>
> I realize I'm comparing apples to oranges here...different kinds of
> gear, but when a broken tape deck and a Peavey fetch more than an old
> synth in excellent shape with all the accessories, ya just gotta
> wonder.
>
> Don't get me wrong, I'm not bitching here I did just fine...I'll
> probabably change the listing, lower the price, sell the RAM card
> separate or something, etc. but my point is that Ebay behavior is
> pretty close to a entropic system; sometimes it makes sense, but not
> usually <g>
>
> Analogeezer
>
> p.s. Oh yeah, I get it I need to say VINTAGE SYNTH next time... <g>

[Arny Krueger]

"Brothermark" > wrote in message
...
> just as a side point regarding ebay madness, the robot-bidder thing is
> stupid.
>
> Imagine an item with a starting price of $50 but a reserve of $100
> I come along and quite fancy buying the item so I bid $150. Ebay places my
> bid at $55 and the reserve is therefore not met.
>
> Then the auction ends. I'm the high bidder with $55 but I can't have it
> because the reserve wasn't met even though bid over the reserve amount.
>
> STUPIDDD

Been there, done that as a bidder.

I think that's why eBay added the "But It Now" facility. Most people set it
at the reserve price and that breaks the log jam you describe.

Even more stupid are all the auctions I see close for over easy-to-find
discount retail pricing. The last thing I saw close like this was a battery
for a Nomad Jukebox 3. If you rummage around a little you can get them for
$32 plus shipping, but this one closed for over $40 plus shipping.

[Analogeezer]

"Ricky W. Hunt" > wrote in message news:<gQy6b.377207$YN5.252595@sccrnsc01>...
> One thing I learned is to put very low (preferably no reserve) on items.
> Most people will not bid on anything with a reserve (or a very high one)
> even if the reserve is only a 10th of what the item usually sells for on
> eBay. Things will sell for much higher simply because of the "bidding war"
> that goes on once a bunch of people have started bidding on it (which they
> will if you have no reserve). I believe most people just like bidding and
> feeling like their "winning" much more than the fact they need the item or
> if it's a bargain.
>
>
Yeah I've heard a lot of people say that but I usually set reasonable
reserves and still get a ton of bids...I think the Peavey got 14 or
so, some of my stuff with reserves gets upwards of 20.

I guess once I get more experience and confidence I'll probably drop
the reserve thing....the Kawai is the first thing I listed that didn't
sell with ease, I think it was a timing thing, one sold the week
before for almost double what mine peaked at but this week they were
cheap.

So far I've been selling stuff that is pretty well known, so I guess I
don't really need a reserve, but at the same time I don't want
somebody scarfing something for $10 and then I have the hassle of
packing, shipping, etc.

One thing that annoys me are auctions for stuff you KNOW is gonna go
high that say "NO RESERVE", like a UA 1176. Frankly I'd rather see a
reasonable reserve on that then somebody trying to suggest it might go
for $50 with NO RESERVE.

Contrary to popular belief around here, there ARE some buyer deals on
Ebay but it's not usually the first place I look and then I usually
pay top dollar. I paid a bit too much for a used SPX-990 a while back
but it was in mint shape, with the manual and the guy was cool....I
never could fine a used one that anybody had FS (that kind of says
something doesn't it?) except on Ebay so there you go.

Analogeezer

[Rob Adelman]

William Sommerwerck wrote:


> I agree it's important to get people bidding, but a reserve is not an automatic
> barrier to bidding.

I rarely use the reserve to sell. Only something that I am torn about,
not quite sure I really want to sell. Just decide the minimum you will
go and set the bidding there. Worse case, that's what you will get, best
case you will get much more.

The reserve can be used for an effect though. If you set it just above
the starting bid price, the first bid will meet the reserve, and the
rest of the auction will say "reserve met" and add to the excitement.





> Remember that a reserve lets you set a much lower starting price, and that's
> important, too. The reserve is your only protection against having to sell the
> item for less than you wanted to.
>

[Mark]

I always do no-reserve auctions and start the bidding at the lowest price I
would accept in negotiations. I almost always sell the item at the first
auction... and usually for more than I expect.

"Analogeezer" > wrote in message

> Yeah I've heard a lot of people say that but I usually set reasonable
> reserves and still get a ton of bids...I think the Peavey got 14 or
> so, some of my stuff with reserves gets upwards of 20.
>

[Tracy Johnson]

"DaveDrummer" > wrote in message >...
> ebay has good and bad times. sometimes theres people looking for your item.
> some days there gone.

Very true, and yet like Analogeezer said, you see some strange
stuff. Like say several like items are being auctioned by different
sellers; sometimes one will be obviously in much poorer condition but
a bidding war will going on for that item while another in much better
condition sits idle!!!??? I've bought several things at a fair price
like that while watching others bid on the crappy one!
One thing I've noticed some sellers do to offset the barrier to bids
that a reserve sometimes imposes is to simply tell what the reserve is
in the description.

> "Analogeezer" > wrote in message
> m...
> > No suprise to most people here I suspect...
> >
> > I've been selling old stuff on Ebay, mostly lowball stuff I wouldn't
> > bother even bringing up around here.
> >
> > So last weekend I listed six items, two of which went right away with
> > "Buy it Now".
> >
> > One of these items was only $20 less (20 percent) than you can buy a
> > new one for. Granted I had the box and all the stuff (manual,
> > styrofoam insert, etc.), I guess they figured it was good as new for
> > 20 percent less so at least THAT made some sense.
> >
> > I put fairly low reserves on all the stuff, and looking at the market
> > value of these items on Ebay figured that I should have no problem
> > meeting any of the reserves.
> >
> > One of the items was a cheap Kawai synth...I didn't figure to get a
> > whole lot but I had all three manuals, the original box and inserts, a
> > RAM card loaded with third party patches, etc.
> >
> > This one didn't make reserve at all (just over $100), kind of weird as
> > other synths of the same model with all the stuff sold for much, much
> > more...I've got decent feedback (all positive +15), I guess it was
> > just timing or something.
> >
> > Here's the weird part though:
> >
> > I had a Tascam 34 that needs work, cosmetically great but in the
> > auction I stated for repair or parts, right up front.
> >
> > The 34 went for the same price ($86) that the synth peaked at....I had
> > not figured it would fetch that much.
> >
> > THEN I sold a Peavey bass preamp, single rack space thing which went
> > for over a $100. That unit is in great shape, but did have a
> > flaw....the power switch is stuck in full time. But it went for over a
> > $100...its a Peavey?
> >
> > I realize I'm comparing apples to oranges here...different kinds of
> > gear, but when a broken tape deck and a Peavey fetch more than an old
> > synth in excellent shape with all the accessories, ya just gotta
> > wonder.
> >
> > Don't get me wrong, I'm not bitching here I did just fine...I'll
> > probabably change the listing, lower the price, sell the RAM card
> > separate or something, etc. but my point is that Ebay behavior is
> > pretty close to a entropic system; sometimes it makes sense, but not
> > usually <g>
> >
> > Analogeezer
> >
> > p.s. Oh yeah, I get it I need to say VINTAGE SYNTH next time... <g>

[Rob Adelman]

Jason McClelland wrote:


> This hasn't been my experience- for example- here is an auction that I bid
> on:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2556779899&category=38074- I
> bid more than the current price, but why hasn't the current price gone up to
> meet the reserve? I had this same thing happen on a Twin last week- the
> reserve was $350- I bid more than that, but the auction stayed at $250 until
> someone started bidding against me to take it over the reserve,

Try bidding again or contact eBay. Something is not working right. If
you bid more than the reserve your bid should be accepted at the reserve
price. It has always worked for me.

-Rob

[Gene Pool]

Why would you bid on an item with a seller that has a -1 feedback
rating?
How did you know the reserve price, its not listed? E-mail the seller?

read about ebay fees here:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/index_popup.html?sell=basics.html

On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 14:04:53 GMT, "Jason McClelland"
> wrote:

>
>"axtogrind" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>
>> If the reserve is $100 and you bid $150, your bid will be $100 (the
>reserve)
>> unless and until someone bids over $150.
>>
>> atg
>>
>
>This hasn't been my experience- for example- here is an auction that I bid
>on:
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2556779899&category=38074- I
>bid more than the current price, but why hasn't the current price gone up to
>meet the reserve? I had this same thing happen on a Twin last week- the
>reserve was $350- I bid more than that, but the auction stayed at $250 until
>someone started bidding against me to take it over the reserve,
>
>Thanks!
>
>~j
>

[D. Butler]

Nope, he is right and you are wrong. if the reserve WAS $100 it would automatically
go to that.

But the seller probably lied about the reserve OR he was otherwise mislead.

I have been on Ebay for years.

db

In article >,
"Thomas Bishop" > wrote:

> "axtogrind" > wrote in message
> > If the reserve is $100 and you bid $150, your bid will be $100 (the
> reserve)
> > unless and until someone bids over $150.
>
> No, you need to go back and read a little about bidding on eBay. The
> reserve and the starting bid price are two different things. Brothermark is
> right on, and it sucks big time. That's why I always include a Buy-It-Now
> price when selling and first look at auctions with BIN prices when bidding.
>
>

--
David 'db' Butler, Consultant
Acoustics by db
"...all the rest are just brokers"
now on the web at http://www.db-engineering.com
Boston, Mass
Phone 617 969-0585 Fax 617 964-1590

[Rob Adelman]

David, you are SO behind ;)

D. Butler wrote:

> Nope, he is right and you are wrong. if the reserve WAS $100 it would automatically
> go to that.
>
> But the seller probably lied about the reserve OR he was otherwise mislead.
>
> I have been on Ebay for years.
>
> db
>
> In article >,
> "Thomas Bishop" > wrote:
>
>
>>"axtogrind" > wrote in message
>>
>>>If the reserve is $100 and you bid $150, your bid will be $100 (the
>>
>>reserve)
>>
>>>unless and until someone bids over $150.
>>
>>No, you need to go back and read a little about bidding on eBay. The
>>reserve and the starting bid price are two different things. Brothermark is
>>right on, and it sucks big time. That's why I always include a Buy-It-Now
>>price when selling and first look at auctions with BIN prices when bidding.
>>
>>
>
>

[David Morley]

> > Imagine an item with a starting price of $50 but a reserve of $100
> > I come along and quite fancy buying the item so I bid $150. Ebay places my
> > bid at $55 and the reserve is therefore not met.
> >
> > Then the auction ends. I'm the high bidder with $55 but I can't have it
> > because the reserve wasn't met even though bid over the reserve amount.
> >
> > STUPIDDD

If the reserve was $100, your bid would have jumped to $100. FULL STOP.

[Steve]

"Brothermark" > wrote in message >...
> just as a side point regarding ebay madness, the robot-bidder thing is
> stupid.
>
> Imagine an item with a starting price of $50 but a reserve of $100
> I come along and quite fancy buying the item so I bid $150. Ebay places my
> bid at $55 and the reserve is therefore not met.
>
> Then the auction ends. I'm the high bidder with $55 but I can't have it
> because the reserve wasn't met even though bid over the reserve amount.
>
> STUPIDDD

The reserve is not usualy published so how do you know what it is?

Steve

[David Morley]

In article >,
"Jason McClelland" > wrote:

> >
> > If the reserve is $100 and you bid $150, your bid will be $100 (the
> reserve)
> > unless and until someone bids over $150.
> >
> > atg
> >
>
> This hasn't been my experience- for example- here is an auction that I bid
> on:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2556779899&category=38074-
> I
> bid more than the current price, but why hasn't the current price gone up to
> meet the reserve? I had this same thing happen on a Twin last week- the
> reserve was $350- I bid more than that, but the auction stayed at $250 until
> someone started bidding against me to take it over the reserve,
>
> Thanks!

Then there was an error. 'It doesn´t work like that.
A reserve is the minimum the seller will accept. You don´t probably know
what he wants. If the price of the item is for the minute $1 and you bid
$5 and his reserve was $55, it will stay at $1 until someone else bids
against you. If you bid $500 it will jump to $55. You are winning the
item.
Your above case is either not true or was a fault on that specific ebay
item (I have never experienced this despite having won or sold over 800
auctions)

[Rob Adelman]

Arny Krueger wrote:


> On another occasion, I really wanted the item and was willing to pay a price
> that happened to be over the reserve. I had a friend bid against me. We
> cleared the reserve at a price I was willing to pay.

??? What do you mean you had a friend bid against you?

[steve]

Last time I looked you couldn't bid against yourself and raise the bid
(unless you have seperate ebay id's). The bid never goes higher than the
current bid until another bidder raises it.

A newer ebay feature lets the seller accept direct offers while still up
for auction. Or you can always make a direct offer during or after the
auction ends.

Of course the original poster wasn't happy with his bids because no one
wanted them for his price. Many times its the NR item that gets higher
bids than the one with reserve.

A little research will show there's a strategy to getting the highest
price for your items.

William Sommerwerck wrote:
>
> > On another occasion, I really wanted the item and was willing
> > to pay a price that happened to be over the reserve. I had a
> > friend bid against me. We cleared the reserve at a price I was
> > willing to pay. I think he ended up actually completing the eBay
> > transaction because that's how the bidding worked out. Or
> > maybe it was the other way around, he wanted it and I bid
> > against him to clear the reserve price.
>
> Whaaaaat?
>
> All you have to do is keep bidding until you hit the reserve. You can raise your
> bid any time you like, whether or not someone has bid against you.

[David Morley]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> On another occasion, I really wanted the item and was willing to pay a price
> that happened to be over the reserve. I had a friend bid against me. We
> cleared the reserve at a price I was willing to pay. I think he ended up
> actually completing the ebay transaction because that's how the bidding
> worked out. Or maybe it was the other way around, he wanted it and I bid
> against him to clear the reserve price.

surely you don´t need to? Just keep putting a higher and higher amount
until the reserve is met!

[Arny Krueger]

"Rob Adelman" > wrote in message
...

> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>
> > On another occasion, I really wanted the item and was willing to pay a
price
> > that happened to be over the reserve. I had a friend bid against me. We
> > cleared the reserve at a price I was willing to pay.

> ??? What do you mean you had a friend bid against you?

Exactly what I said. We didn't know what the reserve was, so we found out by
experimentation. He put in a max of x$ and I bid against it until the price
rose to just over the reserve. Yes, we ended up paying more than we had
initially agreed on as the *limit*.

[Arny Krueger]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...
> > On another occasion, I really wanted the item and was willing
> > to pay a price that happened to be over the reserve. I had a
> > friend bid against me. We cleared the reserve at a price I was
> > willing to pay. I think he ended up actually completing the eBay
> > transaction because that's how the bidding worked out. Or
> > maybe it was the other way around, he wanted it and I bid
> > against him to clear the reserve price.

> Whaaaaat?

> All you have to do is keep bidding until you hit the reserve.

That may be true, but that isn't how this transaction went down.

>You can raise your bid any time you like, whether or not someone has bid
against you.

I didn't know that would make any difference.

[Rob Adelman]

Brian Takei wrote:

>>??? What do you mean you had a friend bid against you?
>
>
> I read him to mean he had a friend, and he bid against him, for him. <g>

Well, yes I think I know what he was trying to do. But he obviously
doesn't understand the reserve system. You are bidding against the
reserve until it is met.

-Rob

[Rob Adelman]

Arny Krueger wrote:


> Exactly what I said. We didn't know what the reserve was, so we found out by
> experimentation.

The only way to find out, unless the seller tells you, is to keep
raising your bid until you reach it. Having 2 people bidding doesn't
change that at all.

[William Sommerwerck]

> Last time I looked you couldn't bid against yourself and raise the bid
> (unless you have seperate ebay ID's). The bid never goes higher than
> the current bid until another bidder raises it.

That is absolutely, completely untrue. You can raise your own bid anytime you
like. And why not? -- there's nothing fraudulent about it.

In fact, it happened to me yesterday. I had bid $10 on a mint Polaroid 350. The
auction still had a minute to run (I bid early, because eBay seemed a bit slow),
and I was worried about being sniped. So I placed a second bid of $20 about 20
seconds before the auction ended -- which eBay dutifully accepted.

[William Sommerwerck]

>> You can raise your bid any time you like, whether
>> or not someone has bid against you.

> I didn't know that would make any difference.

It simply increases the maximum amount you're willing to bid.

Nothing "visible" happens if you haven't reached the reserve. But if you do, you
become the current high bidder at the reserve price.

[steve]

William Sommerwerck wrote:
>
> > Last time I looked you couldn't bid against yourself and raise the bid
> > (unless you have seperate ebay ID's). The bid never goes higher than
> > the current bid until another bidder raises it.
>
> That is absolutely, completely untrue. You can raise your own bid anytime you
> like. And why not? -- there's nothing fraudulent about it.
>
> In fact, it happened to me yesterday. I had bid $10 on a mint Polaroid 350. The
> auction still had a minute to run (I bid early, because eBay seemed a bit slow),
> and I was worried about being sniped. So I placed a second bid of $20 about 20
> seconds before the auction ended -- which eBay dutifully accepted.

Sure you can bid as many times as you want and it only raises your bid
limit, but not the current bid. I just did this on an item and I raised
my limit three times while the current bid remained the same, and its
still below the reserve. The current bid appears to stay the same until
another party bids.

So exactly how does one raise the current bid above the reserve withour
another bidder?

[Rob Adelman]

steve wrote:
>

> Sure you can bid as many times as you want and it only raises your bid
> limit, but not the current bid.
Not the current bid showing, but it will raise the minimum bid required
for other potential bidders. Their new minimum bid will be just above
your highest bid.


> I just did this on an item and I raised
> my limit three times while the current bid remained the same, and its
> still below the reserve.

See above.


> The current bid appears to stay the same until
> another party bids.

Or until you bid higher than the reserve.

> So exactly how does one raise the current bid above the reserve withour
> another bidder?

Keep up-ing your bid. You will know when you hit the reserve. Auction
will then say "reserve met" with your bid showing as the current bid.

-Rob

[steve]

Rob Adelman wrote:
>
> steve wrote:
> >
>
> > Sure you can bid as many times as you want and it only raises your bid
> > limit, but not the current bid.
> Not the current bid showing, but it will raise the minimum bid required
> for other potential bidders. Their new minimum bid will be just above
> your highest bid.

No, the minimum bid is still the whatever the next bid increment is, if
you bid that, it will tell you you've been outbid... until you get past
that bidders bid limit. But what if you're sill below the reserve at
that point? Someone else has to come by and raise the bid again, and if
they don't want to take it as high as the reserve? Sigh.. you're left
with a bid that's still below the reserve.
>
> > I just did this on an item and I raised
> > my limit three times while the current bid remained the same, and its
> > still below the reserve.
>
> See above.

What if no one else bids? The current price remains the same...
>
> > The current bid appears to stay the same until
> > another party bids.
>
> Or until you bid higher than the reserve.

You can bid $1M, but it won't take the current price any higher until
someone else bids.
>
> > So exactly how does one raise the current bid above the reserve withour
> > another bidder?
>
> Keep up-ing your bid. You will know when you hit the reserve. Auction
> will then say "reserve met" with your bid showing as the current bid.

In essence you're saying you can bid against yourself, but it doesn't
happen that way, you have to have second bidder to raise the current
price. One bidder alone can't raise the current bid, only their bid
limit.

[David Morley]

In article >,
steve > wrote:

> But what if you're sill below the reserve at
> that point? Someone else has to come by and raise the bid again, and if
> they don't want to take it as high as the reserve? Sigh.. you're left
> with a bid that's still below the reserve.

Well, yes! but only because you weren?t prepared to pay enough. The
moment YOU bid OVER the RESERVE, YOU are WINNING.
If you don?t bid over the reserve, you aren?t winning.

[William Sommerwerck]

> So exactly how does one raise the current bid
> above the reserve without another bidder?

Duh... You just keep raising your bid. That's it. Why is this so difficult to
understand?

[steve]

You know, I must be using a different ebay than you guys, because if you
are the current high bidder, no matter what you do, the current bid will
never increase unless someone else puts in another bid.

It's an auction, doesn't that mean without competing bidders, it would
only be a sale?

William Sommerwerck wrote:
>
> > So exactly how does one raise the current bid
> > above the reserve without another bidder?
>
> Duh... You just keep raising your bid. That's it. Why is this so difficult to
> understand?

I was the high bidder on an item, the current bid was below reserve, I
bid three more times (no one else bid during that time), the current bid
did not change, the only thing accomplished was raising my bid limit
each time.

Are you saying by being the only bidder you can raise the current bid
all by yourself? Please show me where that is possible.

[Rob Adelman]

steve wrote:
> You know, I must be using a different ebay than you guys, because if you
> are the current high bidder, no matter what you do, the current bid will
> never increase unless someone else puts in another bid.

Then you haven't met the reserve! E-mail the seller and ask what the
reserve is, sometimes they will tell you.

[Twist Turner]

It won't raise the bid unless you hit the reserve. If you don't hit the
reseverve the bid won't change, if you do it will. Obviously you are
not bidding enough.





http://www.vintagemicsales.com

[Arny Krueger]

"Rob Adelman" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>
> > Exactly what I said. We didn't know what the reserve was, so we found
out by
> > experimentation.
>
> The only way to find out, unless the seller tells you, is to keep
> raising your bid until you reach it. Having 2 people bidding doesn't
> change that at all.

Well of course nothiing bidders do will change the reserve. However, two
bidders have more control over the process - they can inch the bid price up
under their control.

[Arny Krueger]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...
> >> You can raise your bid any time you like, whether
> >> or not someone has bid against you.
>
> > I didn't know that would make any difference.
>
> It simply increases the maximum amount you're willing to bid.
>
> Nothing "visible" happens if you haven't reached the reserve. But if you
do, you
> become the current high bidder at the reserve price.

That makes sense. The advantage of having two bidders is that something
visible does happen before you reach the reserve.

[William Sommerwerck]

> Well, of course nothing bidders do will change the reserve.
> However, two bidders have more control over the process --
> they can inch the bid price up under their control.

Not at all, Arny. Two bidders have no more control over the process than one.

If you're worried about going "too far" over the reserve (that is, you don't
want to set your proxy bid too high), you simply increase your bid a dollar or
two at a time (or whatever increment seems appropriate).

This is not against eBay's rules, and there is absolutely nothing dishonest or
unethical about it.

[William Sommerwerck]

> That makes sense. The advantage of having two bidders is
> that something visible does happen before you reach the reserve.

I see what you mean -- you're uncomfortable not seeing a visible change.

One way to see if a change _has_ occurred is to look at the bid record. It won't
show the actual amount (until the auction is over) but the time at which your
bid was changed _will_ be updated. (I think.)

[Rob Adelman]

Arny Krueger wrote:


> Well of course nothiing bidders do will change the reserve. However, two
> bidders have more control over the process - they can inch the bid price up
> under their control.

What exactly does this accomplish?

[Arny Krueger]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message

>> Well, of course nothing bidders do will change the reserve.
>> However, two bidders have more control over the process --
>> they can inch the bid price up under their control.
>
> Not at all, Arny. Two bidders have no more control over the process
> than one.

Sure they do. They can make the price rise visibly to any level they choose.

> If you're worried about going "too far" over the reserve (that is,
> you don't want to set your proxy bid too high), you simply increase
> your bid a dollar or two at a time (or whatever increment seems
> appropriate).

That should work.

> This is not against eBay's rules, and there is absolutely nothing
> dishonest or unethical about it.

Agreed.

If people inch the price up to a certain level that is below the reserve,
and the auction closes at that level, then seller gets a message about what
the market thinks his item is worth.

I've definitely seen items come back with lower reserves after an auction
like this.

[Arny Krueger]

"Rob Adelman" > wrote in message

> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>
>> Well of course nothing bidders do will change the reserve. However,
>> two bidders have more control over the process - they can inch the
>> bid price up under their control.
>
> What exactly does this accomplish?

If bidding inches up and then stalls below the reserve, the seller gets a
pretty clear message about what the market thinks his item is worth.

[Arny Krueger]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message

>> That makes sense. The advantage of having two bidders is
>> that something visible does happen before you reach the reserve.
>
> I see what you mean -- you're uncomfortable not seeing a visible
> change.

Exactly.

> One way to see if a change _has_ occurred is to look at the bid
> record. It won't show the actual amount (until the auction is over)
> but the time at which your bid was changed _will_ be updated. (I
> think.)

This info is only interesting to me (i.e., has real prices attached to it)
AFTER the auction closes.

[Rob Adelman]

Arny Krueger wrote:


>>What exactly does this accomplish?
>
>
> If bidding inches up and then stalls below the reserve, the seller gets a
> pretty clear message about what the market thinks his item is worth.

I.i.r.c. his info shows up after the auction in the bid history anyway.
Even if there is just one bidder.

[Arny Krueger]

"Rob Adelman" > wrote in message

> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>
>>> What exactly does this accomplish?
>>
>>
>> If bidding inches up and then stalls below the reserve, the seller
>> gets a pretty clear message about what the market thinks his item is
>> worth.
>
> I.i.r.c. his info shows up after the auction in the bid history
> anyway. Even if there is just one bidder.

Agreed.

[William Sommerwerck]

> If bidding inches up and then stalls below the reserve, the seller gets a
> pretty clear message about what the market thinks his item is worth.

....at that particular time, for the people actively searching eBay during the
period the item is up for auction.

If you want to know what an item is "really" worth, looking at the completed
auctions should give a better idea. Winning eBay prices tend to be stable over
long periods of time, but can fluctuate wildly over short periods. If you're
lucky you can get some incredible bargains. If you're unlucky, the "fair market"
price will drop so rapidly that you won't be able to sell the thing you bought
just two weeks ago at anywhere nearly what you paid for it. (This is happening
to me right now with a set of Civil War books.)

Current eBay prices tend to be depressed, due to the soft economy. It seems that
only items in mint condition are fetching the high prices they "ought" to.

[Don]

Rob Adelman > wrote in message >...
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>
> >>What exactly does this accomplish?
> >
> >
> > If bidding inches up and then stalls below the reserve, the seller gets a
> > pretty clear message about what the market thinks his item is worth.
>
> I.i.r.c. his info shows up after the auction in the bid history anyway.
> Even if there is just one bidder.

Not correct. If there is only one bidder, and he did not reach the
reserve, the bid history will show his bid to be for the opening
amount. The seller does not find out the bidder's max proxy. Even if
the bidder entered multiple bids, they will all show the opening bid
amount.

[Rob Adelman]

Don wrote:

> Not correct. If there is only one bidder, and he did not reach the
> reserve, the bid history will show his bid to be for the opening
> amount. The seller does not find out the bidder's max proxy. Even if
> the bidder entered multiple bids, they will all show the opening bid
> amount.

Ok. I wasn't sure about that and was too lazy to look into it..

For what it's worth, I think reserves are stupid in most cases, the
seller should just figure out the lowest amount he would take and start
the bidding there. I rarely use a reserve. Of course if you just want to
find out what something is worth without actually selling it, you can
set a really high reserve and let the bidding show you.

[William Sommerwerck]

> For what it's worth, I think reserves are stupid in most cases, the
> seller should just figure out the lowest amount he would take and
> start the bidding there.

That's correct in principle, but if the price you want is close to the "fair"
value, you might not get any bids at all. Bidders want a sense of "freedom,"
that they're not being "forced" to bid close to the actual price -- even if
they're _willing_ to pay that price.

[Rob Adelman]

William Sommerwerck wrote:


> That's correct in principle, but if the price you want is close to the "fair"
> value, you might not get any bids at all.

Sure, but bids below the reserve don't do you much good anyway, unless
you are willing to sell for less than that and want to contact the
bidder outside of eBay.


> Bidders want a sense of "freedom,"
> that they're not being "forced" to bid close to the actual price -- even if
> they're _willing_ to pay that price.

Ok, they can bid tell the cows come home, but they don't win if reserve
hasn't been met. But if it makes them feel good...

[William Sommerwerck]

>> That's correct in principle, but if the price you want is close to the "fair"
>> value, you might not get any bids at all.

> Sure, but bids below the reserve don't do you much good anyway, unless
> you are willing to sell for less than that and want to contact the
> bidder outside of eBay.


>> Bidders want a sense of "freedom,"
>> that they're not being "forced" to bid close to the actual price -- even if
>> they're _willing_ to pay that price.

> Ok, they can bid tell the cows come home, but they don't win if reserve
> hasn't been met. But if it makes them feel good...


You missed the point. I was talking about non-reserve auctions.

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> That's correct in principle, but if the price you want is close to the "fair"
> value, you might not get any bids at all.

I guess that means that most things are worth less than what people
think is a fair value. But then that's why they have auctions - so
that people will pay more than what the seller thinks is fair.

If he wanted to sell it for what he considered a fair price, he'd just
put it up for sale, period. If he didn't get any buyers he could
either lower his price, keep it up for sale until someone pays his
price, or decide to keep it .





--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

[Rob Adelman]

William Sommerwerck wrote:

> You missed the point. I was talking about non-reserve auctions.

Oh, ok.

But with either type of auction, at any given time, there will be a top
dollar someone watching will be willing to spend. Either you are willing
to go down to that point or not. The hard part, as a seller, is really
figuring out the bottom line.

I really see only one advantage to using a reserve auction. Sometimes
the top dollar a buyer will go could be higher just because he watched
other people bidding on the item, even though their bids could be
ridiculously low. So now he is getting caught up in the frenzy.

Once his bidding is above all the other ******s (assuming reserve is
still not met)the only really bidder he is up against is the reserve.
But in all the excitement he forgets this and just keep bidding until
reserve is met, even though it is much higher than the market (and other
bidders) value the piece it. Much to the delight of the seller.

Sometimes I will take my chances and play this (reserve) game, but most
of the time I just want to sell it quick and I just set my bottom line
price with no reserve. Usually it still goes above my price (if I price
it right), but I eliminate all the ******s.

[Rob Adelman]

Mike Rivers wrote:


> I guess that means that most things are worth less than what people
> think is a fair value. But then that's why they have auctions - so
> that people will pay more than what the seller thinks is fair.

I don't know about that. The auction is better at determining what the
buyer thinks is fair as opposed to what the seller thinks.


> If he wanted to sell it for what he considered a fair price, he'd just
> put it up for sale, period.

But if he prices it too low, the seller will be setting the new market
value. This will not be a good indication of what buyers *might* be
willing to spend. And future sales will start to adjust accordingly.
So in essence eBay really has changed the market value of some things.
This doesn't mean it is now wrong. It could be that the item was being
sold too cheaply before the "market" really had a chance to speak up.


> If he didn't get any buyers he could
> either lower his price, keep it up for sale until someone pays his
> price, or decide to keep it.

That is how selling has typically been. But it depends on how long you
want to deal with it. The thing I love most about eBay, assuming I set a
reasonable price, is that when I put something up for sale, it is sold
in 7 days, end of story. How much is your time worth to you?
-Rob

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> I don't know about that. The auction is better at determining what the
> buyer thinks is fair as opposed to what the seller thinks.

I don't agree. The buyer may know that the price he's bidding is less
than fair to the seller but knows that if he gets it for that, he can
find another buyer who will pay more. Or he will enjoy a bargain that
he wouldn't otherwise have been able to enjoy unless he paid less than
what's fair.

The selling price is determined by what the buyer will pay, but also
by what the seller is willing to accept. Some sellers want to sell
badly enough that they're happy with any price they get. Others aren't
so desperate or agressive and are willing to hold out for more money.

> > If he wanted to sell it for what he considered a fair price, he'd just
> > put it up for sale, period.
>
> But if he prices it too low, the seller will be setting the new market
> value.

One sale does not make a 'market value' except on the Internet.
However you see this happening all the time here. Everyone thinks that
whatever the last one sold (in a single transaction) for on eBay is
now the going price and anyone should be able to buy another one for
that price. I wish that was so, but it isn't.

> So in essence eBay really has changed the market value of some things.

You're not kidding!

> This doesn't mean it is now wrong. It could be that the item was being
> sold too cheaply before the "market" really had a chance to speak up.

It also COULD mean that one buyer thinks it's worth as much money as
he has to spend and wants it badly enough not to let it slip through
his fingers. That doesn't mean that it's "the" value of the item, just
what one buyer was willing to pay.

The next time one of those widgets comes up for auction, the buyer who
already paid more than anyone else was willing to pay already has his,
so either the next one goes for less, or the seller made the last
selling price his reserve and it doesn't sell. Unless it was one of
those auctions where the price just keeps going up and up and up with
several people bidding and finally the clock runs out - then there are
more buyers and someone is in business. They might as well simply
establish a selling price that makes them happy and wait for the
checks to roll in.

> That is how selling has typically been. But it depends on how long you
> want to deal with it. The thing I love most about eBay, assuming I set a
> reasonable price, is that when I put something up for sale, it is sold
> in 7 days, end of story. How much is your time worth to you?

Time is valuable. So I know that if I can't get more than five bucks
for a VCR that doesn't work, before I'll pack it up for five lousy
bucks, I'll put it out on the curb on trash day. Maybe my attitude is
different because I don't have a lot of things that are in demand. I
tend to buy things that last (even though their cash value doesn't)
and I want to keep and use them as long as I can, not just for as long
as I can still sell them for not too great of a loss.

Anyone want to give me $500 for a Revox A700 I paid $1500 for? I
didn't think so. So I'll just keep it around. I just loaned it to a
friend a couple of months ago who had a two track 3-3/4 IPS tape he
needed to transfer for an archival release. Being able to contribute
to that project was worth more to me than the $25 I might get for it
on eBay.




--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> I don't know about that. The auction is better at determining what the
> buyer thinks is fair as opposed to what the seller thinks.

I don't agree. The buyer may know that the price he's bidding is less
than fair to the seller but knows that if he gets it for that, he can
find another buyer who will pay more. Or he will enjoy a bargain that
he wouldn't otherwise have been able to enjoy unless he paid less than
what's fair.

The selling price is determined by what the buyer will pay, but also
by what the seller is willing to accept. Some sellers want to sell
badly enough that they're happy with any price they get. Others aren't
so desperate or agressive and are willing to hold out for more money.

> > If he wanted to sell it for what he considered a fair price, he'd just
> > put it up for sale, period.
>
> But if he prices it too low, the seller will be setting the new market
> value.

One sale does not make a 'market value' except on the Internet.
However you see this happening all the time here. Everyone thinks that
whatever the last one sold (in a single transaction) for on eBay is
now the going price and anyone should be able to buy another one for
that price. I wish that was so, but it isn't.

> So in essence eBay really has changed the market value of some things.

You're not kidding!

> This doesn't mean it is now wrong. It could be that the item was being
> sold too cheaply before the "market" really had a chance to speak up.

It also COULD mean that one buyer thinks it's worth as much money as
he has to spend and wants it badly enough not to let it slip through
his fingers. That doesn't mean that it's "the" value of the item, just
what one buyer was willing to pay.

The next time one of those widgets comes up for auction, the buyer who
already paid more than anyone else was willing to pay already has his,
so either the next one goes for less, or the seller made the last
selling price his reserve and it doesn't sell. Unless it was one of
those auctions where the price just keeps going up and up and up with
several people bidding and finally the clock runs out - then there are
more buyers and someone is in business. They might as well simply
establish a selling price that makes them happy and wait for the
checks to roll in.

> That is how selling has typically been. But it depends on how long you
> want to deal with it. The thing I love most about eBay, assuming I set a
> reasonable price, is that when I put something up for sale, it is sold
> in 7 days, end of story. How much is your time worth to you?

Time is valuable. So I know that if I can't get more than five bucks
for a VCR that doesn't work, before I'll pack it up for five lousy
bucks, I'll put it out on the curb on trash day. Maybe my attitude is
different because I don't have a lot of things that are in demand. I
tend to buy things that last (even though their cash value doesn't)
and I want to keep and use them as long as I can, not just for as long
as I can still sell them for not too great of a loss.

Anyone want to give me $500 for a Revox A700 I paid $1500 for? I
didn't think so. So I'll just keep it around. I just loaned it to a
friend a couple of months ago who had a two track 3-3/4 IPS tape he
needed to transfer for an archival release. Being able to contribute
to that project was worth more to me than the $25 I might get for it
on eBay.




--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

[David Morley]

>
> > That's correct in principle, but if the price you want is close to the
> > "fair"
> > value, you might not get any bids at all.
>
> I guess that means that most things are worth less than what people
> think is a fair value. But then that's why they have auctions - so
> that people will pay more than what the seller thinks is fair.


Plus when things start at $1 on ebay, people tend to get carried away. I
guess they all think they may get a bargain and end up paying just that
bit extra to beat "bob345", "tubejunky" or "valvebeater"
(no offence if anyone really is "tubejunky" or "valvebeater")

[David Morley]

>
> > That's correct in principle, but if the price you want is close to the
> > "fair"
> > value, you might not get any bids at all.
>
> I guess that means that most things are worth less than what people
> think is a fair value. But then that's why they have auctions - so
> that people will pay more than what the seller thinks is fair.


Plus when things start at $1 on ebay, people tend to get carried away. I
guess they all think they may get a bargain and end up paying just that
bit extra to beat "bob345", "tubejunky" or "valvebeater"
(no offence if anyone really is "tubejunky" or "valvebeater")

[William Sommerwerck]

> Plus when things start at $1 on eBay, people tend to get
> carried away. I guess they all think they may get a bargain
> and end up paying just that bit extra to beat "bob345",
> "tubejunky" or "valvebeater" (no offence if anyone really
> is "tubejunky" or "valvebeater").

Unfortunately, they don't _always_ get carried away. Which is why a reserve is
sometimes needed.

[William Sommerwerck]

> Plus when things start at $1 on eBay, people tend to get
> carried away. I guess they all think they may get a bargain
> and end up paying just that bit extra to beat "bob345",
> "tubejunky" or "valvebeater" (no offence if anyone really
> is "tubejunky" or "valvebeater").

Unfortunately, they don't _always_ get carried away. Which is why a reserve is
sometimes needed.

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message ...
> > Plus when things start at $1 on eBay, people tend to get
> > carried away. I guess they all think they may get a bargain
> > and end up paying just that bit extra to beat "bob345",
> > "tubejunky" or "valvebeater" (no offence if anyone really
> > is "tubejunky" or "valvebeater").
>
> Unfortunately, they don't _always_ get carried away. Which is why a reserve is
> sometimes needed.
>

I would only put a reserve on a high priced item that still needs some
incentive to start the bidding. Otherwise, just insert a minimum or
starting bid amount and avoid the fee charged for 'reserve' auctions.

I've sold about 20 items, several that I bought only days earlier, and
almost every one of them went in just hours on a BiN. From a buyer's
standpoint, I guess you have to know what you are willing to pay and be
prepared to lay it out in order to break a reserve. I've found that it's not
very safe trying to up bids by tiny amounts in hopes of a better deal.
It's probably not to impressive to the seller either.

DM

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message ...
> > Plus when things start at $1 on eBay, people tend to get
> > carried away. I guess they all think they may get a bargain
> > and end up paying just that bit extra to beat "bob345",
> > "tubejunky" or "valvebeater" (no offence if anyone really
> > is "tubejunky" or "valvebeater").
>
> Unfortunately, they don't _always_ get carried away. Which is why a reserve is
> sometimes needed.
>

I would only put a reserve on a high priced item that still needs some
incentive to start the bidding. Otherwise, just insert a minimum or
starting bid amount and avoid the fee charged for 'reserve' auctions.

I've sold about 20 items, several that I bought only days earlier, and
almost every one of them went in just hours on a BiN. From a buyer's
standpoint, I guess you have to know what you are willing to pay and be
prepared to lay it out in order to break a reserve. I've found that it's not
very safe trying to up bids by tiny amounts in hopes of a better deal.
It's probably not to impressive to the seller either.

DM

[Rob Adelman]

David Morley wrote:

> bit extra to beat "bob345", "tubejunky" or "valvebeater"
> (no offence if anyone really is "tubejunky" or "valvebeater")

HEY, what if I'm bob345? <g>

[Rob Adelman]

David Morley wrote:

> bit extra to beat "bob345", "tubejunky" or "valvebeater"
> (no offence if anyone really is "tubejunky" or "valvebeater")

HEY, what if I'm bob345? <g>

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> Plus when things start at $1 on ebay, people tend to get carried away. I
> guess they all think they may get a bargain and end up paying just that
> bit extra to beat "bob345", "tubejunky" or "valvebeater"

Right. How often have we seen "There's one for $62 on eBay right now."
but of course that's not the final selling price.




--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> Plus when things start at $1 on ebay, people tend to get carried away. I
> guess they all think they may get a bargain and end up paying just that
> bit extra to beat "bob345", "tubejunky" or "valvebeater"

Right. How often have we seen "There's one for $62 on eBay right now."
but of course that's not the final selling price.




--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

[Analogeezer]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message >...
> > If bidding inches up and then stalls below the reserve, the seller gets a
> > pretty clear message about what the market thinks his item is worth.
>
> ...at that particular time, for the people actively searching eBay during the
> period the item is up for auction.
>
> If you want to know what an item is "really" worth, looking at the completed
> auctions should give a better idea. Winning eBay prices tend to be stable over
> long periods of time, but can fluctuate wildly over short periods. If you're
> lucky you can get some incredible bargains. If you're unlucky, the "fair market"
> price will drop so rapidly that you won't be able to sell the thing you bought
> just two weeks ago at anywhere nearly what you paid for it. (This is happening
> to me right now with a set of Civil War books.)
>
> Current eBay prices tend to be depressed, due to the soft economy. It seems that
> only items in mint condition are fetching the high prices they "ought" to.

I have figured out one time to sell lower priced (or just plain
"lowball" gear) gear on Ebay....right after Christmas.

You would think that people would be spent out then, but I noticed
that last January, people were paying stupid money for things that
should have gone for 30% less (like 3630's for $109).

What I finally realized was that these were probably kids that were
spending their Christmas cash.

So if you've got an old Midiverb or stompbox you want to get rid of,
January on Ebay is the time and place.

Analogeezer

p.s. Oh yeah, just to follow up with the orignal posting of mine...I
put the synth back on, with a $20 lower BIN price and included free
shipping with BIN. It sold within a day and my net after paying the
shipping costs was $50 more than the original auction ended at and it
was $20 more than my reserve, which I did not change.

Like I said, sometimes it (Ebay)just doesn't make sense...

[Analogeezer]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message >...
> > If bidding inches up and then stalls below the reserve, the seller gets a
> > pretty clear message about what the market thinks his item is worth.
>
> ...at that particular time, for the people actively searching eBay during the
> period the item is up for auction.
>
> If you want to know what an item is "really" worth, looking at the completed
> auctions should give a better idea. Winning eBay prices tend to be stable over
> long periods of time, but can fluctuate wildly over short periods. If you're
> lucky you can get some incredible bargains. If you're unlucky, the "fair market"
> price will drop so rapidly that you won't be able to sell the thing you bought
> just two weeks ago at anywhere nearly what you paid for it. (This is happening
> to me right now with a set of Civil War books.)
>
> Current eBay prices tend to be depressed, due to the soft economy. It seems that
> only items in mint condition are fetching the high prices they "ought" to.

I have figured out one time to sell lower priced (or just plain
"lowball" gear) gear on Ebay....right after Christmas.

You would think that people would be spent out then, but I noticed
that last January, people were paying stupid money for things that
should have gone for 30% less (like 3630's for $109).

What I finally realized was that these were probably kids that were
spending their Christmas cash.

So if you've got an old Midiverb or stompbox you want to get rid of,
January on Ebay is the time and place.

Analogeezer

p.s. Oh yeah, just to follow up with the orignal posting of mine...I
put the synth back on, with a $20 lower BIN price and included free
shipping with BIN. It sold within a day and my net after paying the
shipping costs was $50 more than the original auction ended at and it
was $20 more than my reserve, which I did not change.

Like I said, sometimes it (Ebay)just doesn't make sense...