Yet another Choir mic question,,,HELP!!!

[Hank G.]

Hi, I need some help with condenser mics-- FAST!!!... Please!!! :-)
And I
apologize for the long post, but I am desperate.

I sing with a Barbershop chorus and was thrown into the sound man
position
last Saturday rather abruptly, as in, I arrived to sing about 20
minutes
before curtain only to see the entire PA system sitting on the stage
in a
pile. The former guy quit (and took his AT mics with him) no one else
has a clue about sound systems. I didn't want to take the job because
I am too busy and hold 5 positions in the chorus as it is. But alas,
if you want something done right...
I doubled as a musician/soundman for about 25 years in my rock bands
but
have no experience with large vocal groups and almost none with
condenser mics, where-in lies my questions.
We use a nice Crown PCC 160 for center and Quartets. But I learned
in
horror and with the clock ticking that the rest of the chorus is
relegated
to two Radio Shack dynamic ball mics, the $29.99 variety. I did the
best I
could but trying to get some volume and sound quality with out feed
back
with distance micing from those P.o.C. mics was a real challenge.
Well,
actually there was no sound quality, but at least you could hear us.
We have, what for our little neck of the woods is, a major sing out
next
Thursday 9/11. I am going to put together from what we have available
a main
and monitor system which we never have had. But, I want some decent
condenser mics that are not going to break me financially. I am not
buying
these for the chorus per se, but for me that I will use for us. So I
want
something that I will find useful at home with my Marantz PMD 740 and
Cakewalk and Cubase on my computer.
I own 2 E/V's, ND 257 and 357, and a Crown 311. But to be honest I
have
not done any recording or live sound since about 1997 so I am rusty to
boot.
I was going to go with 4 Carvin CM90E's. But upon perusing the
netstores,
I see some other mics that interest me in my price range. Some I would
not
be able to buy 4 of, but 2 will suffice for now. I would like any
feedback you can offer. I hope to purchase by at least Saturday so
they will arrive in time to use next Thursday.
I'm looking basically for yes or no answers as I don't expect an
essay on
each mic. But if you were in my position, what would you choose from
this
list? Or do you have a suggestion beyond this list. $400. is about the
top
range for me which would be 2 or 4 mics but I would prefer to stay
closer to
$300.
We have usually about 30-40 guys on stage. I would rather have two
good
quality mics for now, than 4 that will give me nothing but headaches
or poor
sound quality. Also, these will be used outside mostly for the chorus.
Our
indoor activities are in halls that have sound systems, but I will use
them
for the chorus indoors occasionally too.
Music 123 offer's all these: # indicates how many I can afford.

AKG twin package of C1000S's for $299. (1 set)
AKG C430 twin pack $199.99 (listed as drum mics) (2 sets)
RODE NT5 twin set $299. (1 set)
CAD GXL 1200 $69.99. a piece (4)
AT MB4000C $69.99 a piece (4)
Marshall MXL603S $89.99 a piece (4)
Shure EZO $129.99 a piece (2)
AT 859QMLX $148.99 a piece (2)

Thank you everyone. I appreciate anything you can offer, positive or
negative.
BTW this a great group of informed individuals, I'm glad I
thought to
check here before I made a purchase.
Sincerely, George

[Thomas Bishop]

"Hank G." > wrote in message ...
> Hi, I need some help with condenser mics-- FAST!!!... Please!!! :-)

Look up MXL 603s on eBay. There's a pair for Buy-It-Now of $129. There are
also some for BIN of $85. There's four for under your $300 budget. Good
mics. They have a wide cardioid pattern so if feedback is already an issue
then I wouldn't use them. But if you can get your mains out in front of
them then you should have no problems. They usually come with wind screens
which are a must since you will be using them outside.

[J. Joyce]

Oktava mc012 TWO fir $99 at the guitar center.

[Arny Krueger]

"Hank G." > wrote in message
om

> But I learned in
> horror and with the clock ticking that the rest of the chorus is
relegated
> to two Radio Shack dynamic ball mics, the $29.99 variety. I did the best
I
> could but trying to get some volume and sound quality with out feed back
> with distance micing from those P.o.C. mics was a real challenge.

If your speakers have well-controlled directivity and your choir stands well
behind them, you might be able to get away with Behringer ECM8000 omnis at
$39.95 each. I do. They are a high-output mic with very flat, smooth
frequency response on and off axis. You might be able to afford 4 of them
within your budget. Compared to cardioids, you can put really wide omnis
like these a lot closer to the singers, which helps with the stability
margins.

Just a thought.

[WillStG]

<< (Hank G.) >>
<< The former guy quit (and took his AT mics with him) no one else has a clue
about sound systems. >>

Ummm - why did he quit?

<< I arrived to sing about 20 minutes before curtain only to see the entire PA
system sitting on the stage in a pile. >>

Hmmm.

<< I didn't want to take the job because I am too busy and hold 5 positions in
the chorus as it is. But alas, if you want something done right... >>

So why did the sound guy quit?

<< We have, what for our little neck of the woods is, a major sing out next
Thursday 9/11. I am going to put together from what we have available a main
and monitor system which we never have had. >> SNIP
<< But to be honest I have not done any recording or live sound since about
1997 so I am rusty to boot. >>

So you plan to run front of house, monitors, and record the gig at the same
time while you ALSO sing in 5 different groups on the program? Who talked you
into this?

<< I'm looking basically for yes or no answers as I don't expect an essay on
each mic. But if you were in my position, what would you choose from this list?
Or do you have a suggestion beyond this list. $400. is about the
top range for me which would be 2 or 4 mics but I would prefer to stay closer
to $300. >>

If this "Sing Out" really is a "major deal", hire a soundman to mix and
record it if you wish to sing. A 30-40 piece group can afford a soundman. I
think you are being overly ambitious if you expect to do all these things well,
at the same time. Or if you wish to mix live sound and record this
performance, consider not singing.

I don't know what kind of PA you have, but it sounds like you were happy
with the Crown PCC160 in the last gig. If so, perhaps you should consider
renting or borrowing a couple more of those or similar PZM type mics to cover
the choir, that will eliminate a few mic stands on stage as well. You can put
up your EV's or the C-11 for soloists, have them stand back a couple of feet.

The Oktava MC012's are cheap and decent condensers (Guitar Center I guess
on your budget). Listen to them to make sure they all sound pretty similar and
to eliminate any individual mics that are "dogs". For $400 you could get 4,
GET THE $20 SHOCKMOUNTS. The Marshall MXL603's are often recommended here.
C1000's are pretty harsh.

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Fox And Friends/Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits