Shouldn't a digital signal always be EQUAL (at least in level) nomatter from what gear it's DIGITALLY output?

[Nono]

I just discovered that when connecting my computer's Terratec producer
22 soundcard digital (SPDIF) out to the Rosetta 200 or DAT recorder,
the level is 6dB lower than when connected to the SPDIF out of my CD
player, with the same signal.
It is not a balanced/unbalanced issue as I'm only referring to the
digital connection; While a CD played on my CD-player (connected by
SPDIF to the Rosetta/DAT) will show "0" on the meters, it will show
"-6" on the meters when played on the computer (and connected by
SPDIF, via the Terratec soundcard to the Rosetta/DAT).

There is no digital volume control anywhere, which I think is how it's
supposed to be.
But, I always thought that a digital sound was always equal (at least
in level) no matter from what gear it's digitally output.

I'd like to hear if someone has an explanation or knows something
about this before I go call the Terratec people on Monday.

Thanks in advance,
Norman.

[Wecan do it]

"Nono" > wrote in message
...
>I just discovered that when connecting my computer's Terratec
>producer
> 22 soundcard digital (SPDIF) out to the Rosetta 200 or DAT
> recorder,
> the level is 6dB lower than when connected to the SPDIF out
> of my CD
> player, with the same signal.
> It is not a balanced/unbalanced issue as I'm only referring
> to the
> digital connection; While a CD played on my CD-player
> (connected by
> SPDIF to the Rosetta/DAT) will show "0" on the meters, it
> will show
> "-6" on the meters when played on the computer (and
> connected by
> SPDIF, via the Terratec soundcard to the Rosetta/DAT).
>
> There is no digital volume control anywhere, which I think
> is how it's
> supposed to be.
> But, I always thought that a digital sound was always equal
> (at least
> in level) no matter from what gear it's digitally output.
>
> I'd like to hear if someone has an explanation or knows
> something
> about this before I go call the Terratec people on Monday.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Norman.

Hey Norman:

Since it is unknown what program you are using to play from
computer.

1 Does it route through a soundcard mixer? Is the mixer set to
unity?

2. If you burn from the computer program would that CD be -6dB
too?

happy hunting
peace
dawg

>

[Nono]

On 9 okt, 18:36, "Wecan do it" > wrote:
> "Nono" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> >I just discovered that when connecting my computer's Terratec
> >producer
> > 22 soundcard digital (SPDIF) out to the Rosetta 200 or DAT
> > recorder,
> > the level is 6dB lower than when connected to the SPDIF out
> > of my CD
> > player, with the same signal.
> > It is not a balanced/unbalanced issue as I'm only referring
> > to the
> > digital connection; While a CD played on my CD-player
> > (connected by
> > SPDIF to the Rosetta/DAT) will show "0" on the meters, it
> > will show
> > "-6" on the meters when played on the computer (and
> > connected by
> > SPDIF, via the Terratec soundcard to the Rosetta/DAT).
>
> > There is no digital volume control anywhere, which I think
> > is how it's
> > supposed to be.
> > But, I always thought that a digital sound was always equal
> > (at least
> > in level) no matter from what gear it's digitally output.
>
> > I'd like to hear if someone has an explanation or knows
> > something
> > about this before I go call the Terratec people on Monday.
>
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Norman.
>
> Hey Norman:
>
> Since it is unknown what program you are using to play from
> computer.
>
> 1 Does it route through a soundcard mixer? Is the mixer set to
> unity?
>
> 2. If you burn from the computer program would that CD be -6dB
> too?
>
> happy hunting
> peace
> dawg
>
>
>
> - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -

Hello Dawg?

The player is Windows Media Player.
The soundcard's mixer/control panel does not have any volume control
for digital out or in, only for analog.
The digital volume doesn't react on any setting in Windows either, so
I don't expect the problem to be there either.

When I burn a CD on the computer it plays at the same level from the
CD player's (I mean a stand alone CD player) digital out, but 6dB
lower on the computer's digital out.
So, the same CD will give a different level on the stand alone CD
player's digital out than the computer's CD player's digital out.
So if I play a program at 0dBSPL on the DAT digitally into the
computer and route it back from the soundcard's digital out to the
Rosetta's digital in, it will be at -6dB on the Rosetta's meters.

I had not discovered this before as I normally transfer from my Dat
a.o. to the computer for burning to CD and not the other way around,
until yesterday.
Even though it is not my normal way of working, I like my equipment to
function the way they're intended to.

Norman.

[Wecan do it]

"Nono" > wrote in message > Hello
Dawg?
>
> The player is Windows Media Player.
> The soundcard's mixer/control panel does not have any volume
> control
> for digital out or in, only for analog.
> The digital volume doesn't react on any setting in Windows
> either, so
> I don't expect the problem to be there either.
>
> When I burn a CD on the computer it plays at the same level
> from the
> CD player's (I mean a stand alone CD player) digital out,
> but 6dB
> lower on the computer's digital out.
> So, the same CD will give a different level on the stand
> alone CD
> player's digital out than the computer's CD player's digital
> out.
> So if I play a program at 0dBSPL on the DAT digitally into
> the
> computer and route it back from the soundcard's digital out
> to the
> Rosetta's digital in, it will be at -6dB on the Rosetta's
> meters.
>
> I had not discovered this before as I normally transfer from
> my Dat
> a.o. to the computer for burning to CD and not the other way
> around,
> until yesterday.
> Even though it is not my normal way of working, I like my
> equipment to
> function the way they're intended to.
>
> Norman.

Make sure the soundcard mixer is routed properly, sometimes
that can be tricky at first. You should be able to connect the
Spdif to any two channels just like any other analog or
digital output including looping them back.

I tried to disable WMP in my xp audio box. Had to settle for
making it unavailable. Get an application that interfaces with
Teratek ASIO driver and be done with it.


peace
dawg.

[Nono]

On 9 okt, 20:36, "Wecan do it" > wrote:
> "Nono" > wrote in message > Hello
>
> Dawg?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > The player is Windows Media Player.
> > The soundcard's mixer/control panel does not have any volume
> > control
> > for digital out or in, only for analog.
> > The digital volume doesn't react on any setting in Windows
> > either, so
> > I don't expect the problem to be there either.
>
> > When I burn a CD on the computer it plays at the same level
> > from the
> > CD player's (I mean a stand alone CD player) digital out,
> > but 6dB
> > lower on the computer's digital out.
> > So, the same CD will give a different level on the stand
> > alone CD
> > player's digital out than the computer's CD player's digital
> > out.
> > So if I play a program at 0dBSPL on the DAT digitally into
> > the
> > computer and route it back from the soundcard's digital out
> > to the
> > Rosetta's digital in, it will be at -6dB on the Rosetta's
> > meters.
>
> > I had not discovered this before as I normally transfer from
> > my Dat
> > a.o. to the computer for burning to CD and not the other way
> > around,
> > until yesterday.
> > Even though it is not my normal way of working, I like my
> > equipment to
> > function the way they're intended to.
>
> > Norman.
>
> Make sure the soundcard mixer is routed properly, sometimes
> that can be tricky at first. You should be able to connect the
> Spdif to any two channels just like any other analog or
> digital output including looping them back.
>
> I tried to disable WMP in my *xp audio box. Had to settle for
> making it unavailable. Get an application that interfaces with
> Teratek ASIO driver and be done with it.
>
> peace
> dawg.- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -



Thanks,
I'll do that.
Norman.

[Sean Conolly]

"Soundhaspriority" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Nono" > wrote in message
> ...
>>I just discovered that when connecting my computer's Terratec producer
>> 22 soundcard digital (SPDIF) out to the Rosetta 200 or DAT recorder,
>> the level is 6dB lower than when connected to the SPDIF out of my CD
>> player, with the same signal.
>> It is not a balanced/unbalanced issue as I'm only referring to the
>> digital connection; While a CD played on my CD-player (connected by
>> SPDIF to the Rosetta/DAT) will show "0" on the meters, it will show
>> "-6" on the meters when played on the computer (and connected by
>> SPDIF, via the Terratec soundcard to the Rosetta/DAT).
>>
>> There is no digital volume control anywhere, which I think is how it's
>> supposed to be.
>> But, I always thought that a digital sound was always equal (at least
>> in level) no matter from what gear it's digitally output.
>>
>> I'd like to hear if someone has an explanation or knows something
>> about this before I go call the Terratec people on Monday.
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Norman.
>>
> There's no law :) The 16 bits from the CD player have to be positioned by
> the Rosetta driver into a 24 bit field. Barring other explanations, it
> would seem they shifted the 16 bit word left one bit.

... perhaps they were considering the vast number of commercial CDs produced
that are constantly hitting 0db FS. One could argue that a 16 bit digital
input could typically be from a CD, and since there's no fidelity loss in
the bit-shifting there's nothing to lose.

Just speculation, of course.

Sean

[Nono]

On 11 okt, 17:19, "Sean Conolly" > wrote:
> "Soundhaspriority" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Nono" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>I just discovered that when connecting my computer's Terratec producer
> >> 22 soundcard digital (SPDIF) out to the Rosetta 200 or DAT recorder,
> >> the level is 6dB lower than when connected to the SPDIF out of my CD
> >> player, with the same signal.
> >> It is not a balanced/unbalanced issue as I'm only referring to the
> >> digital connection; While a CD played on my CD-player (connected by
> >> SPDIF to the Rosetta/DAT) will show "0" on the meters, it will show
> >> "-6" on the meters when played on the computer (and connected by
> >> SPDIF, via the Terratec soundcard to the Rosetta/DAT).
>
> >> There is no digital volume control anywhere, which I think is how it's
> >> supposed to be.
> >> But, I always thought that a digital sound was always equal (at least
> >> in level) no matter from what gear it's digitally output.
>
> >> I'd like to hear if someone has an explanation or knows something
> >> about this before I go call the Terratec people on Monday.
>
> >> Thanks in advance,
> >> Norman.
>
> > There's no law :) The 16 bits from the CD player have to be positioned by
> > the Rosetta driver into a 24 bit field. Barring other explanations, it
> > would seem they shifted the 16 bit word left one bit.
>
> .. perhaps they were considering the vast number of commercial CDs produced
> that are constantly hitting 0db FS. One could argue that a 16 bit digital
> input could typically be from a CD, and since there's no fidelity loss in
> the bit-shifting there's nothing to lose.
>
> Just speculation, of course.
>
> Sean- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -

This is a quote on the subject from an an article in SOUND ON SOUND
magazine http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul99/articles/pcmusician.htm#
: "...... was initially foxed when signals sent to its S/PDIF output
emerged exactly 6dB down compared to the original file. Since this was
such an exact figure it might suggest a 'missing bits' bug, but in
fact there was nothing wrong at all.........etc."

[Steven Sullivan]

Nono > wrote:
> I just discovered that when connecting my computer's Terratec producer
> 22 soundcard digital (SPDIF) out to the Rosetta 200 or DAT recorder,
> the level is 6dB lower than when connected to the SPDIF out of my CD
> player, with the same signal.
> It is not a balanced/unbalanced issue as I'm only referring to the
> digital connection; While a CD played on my CD-player (connected by
> SPDIF to the Rosetta/DAT) will show "0" on the meters, it will show
> "-6" on the meters when played on the computer (and connected by
> SPDIF, via the Terratec soundcard to the Rosetta/DAT).


Is the 'HDCD'/20-bit option in Windows Media Player enabled? It's buried deep in the
Tools menu of WMP. If so, try turning it off.


Tools/Options/Devices/Speakers/Properties/Performance



--
-S
We have it in our power to begin the world over again - Thomas Paine