Signal flow question: stomp boxes on vocals

[Jacob Weber]

I have a weird problem. I need to record a vocalist in my studio
through a stomp-box-type effects processor. They want one clean track
and one processed track. I want to avoid using an amp, to prevent
bleed into other mics. So I'd like the effects to be heard only in the
headphones. This is how I'm thinking of doing it, but I have a few
questions.

- Mic the vocals in the live room
- Send the signal into the control room, into a preamp
- Send the output of the preamp into a Y-splitter cable
(I know a smarter choice would be to use a patchbay, but ours isn't
operational yet.
Will the Y cable work?)
- Send one output of the Y-cable into Pro Tools.
- Send the other output back into the live room
- Plug this into the stomp box
(Will that work? Can these boxes handle line-level signals?)
- Send the output of the stomp box back into the control room
(Do I need to send this through a DI, into another preamp?
Or can I send it directly to Pro Tools?)
- Feed the headphones with this signal

A lot of back-and-forth, but the singer needs to be able to change the
effects during the song. If anyone has a better approach, I'd love to
hear it.

Jacob
please send any emails to jacob at jacobweber dot com

[John L Rice]

If the singer can do a good performance without hearing the effects just
record the clean signal and then afterwards send that track out to a Reamp
box then to the effect box then to a DI then to a mic level input.

If they need the effects in real time ( watch out for stomp box switch
clicks into the mics ) you can do something similar. Using a Y cable or
patch bay may or may not work because the difference of impendence between
the mic pre output and stomp box input. What's you mixer situation? Run the
mic pre out into one channel and then use an effects send out to a Reamp box
to the stomp box to a DI to a mic input.

There are also cheap passive mic line level splitters you could use although
I haven't tried this one it's cheap :
http://www.grandmas.com/ItemArtSplitCOM.html

I'm sure there are other ways to do this too.

Best of luck!

John L Rice



"Jacob Weber" > wrote in message
m...
> I have a weird problem. I need to record a vocalist in my studio
> through a stomp-box-type effects processor. They want one clean track
> and one processed track. I want to avoid using an amp, to prevent
> bleed into other mics. So I'd like the effects to be heard only in the
> headphones. This is how I'm thinking of doing it, but I have a few
> questions.
>
> - Mic the vocals in the live room
> - Send the signal into the control room, into a preamp
> - Send the output of the preamp into a Y-splitter cable
> (I know a smarter choice would be to use a patchbay, but ours isn't
> operational yet.
> Will the Y cable work?)
> - Send one output of the Y-cable into Pro Tools.
> - Send the other output back into the live room
> - Plug this into the stomp box
> (Will that work? Can these boxes handle line-level signals?)
> - Send the output of the stomp box back into the control room
> (Do I need to send this through a DI, into another preamp?
> Or can I send it directly to Pro Tools?)
> - Feed the headphones with this signal
>
> A lot of back-and-forth, but the singer needs to be able to change the
> effects during the song. If anyone has a better approach, I'd love to
> hear it.
>
> Jacob
> please send any emails to jacob at jacobweber dot com

[Jeffrey S. Long]

Why not record the entire track clean, with no effect. Send the
output of that track out to your effects box and route it back into
another input on a new track. The vocalist can tweak the effects unit
in real time and the wet signal will be recorded on a new track.
You're making it harder than it is, brother.

Jeff

[John L Rice]

"Jacob Weber" > wrote in message
m...
> "John L Rice" > wrote in message
>...
> > If they need the effects in real time ( watch out for stomp box switch
> > clicks into the mics ) you can do something similar. Using a Y cable or
> > patch bay may or may not work because the difference of impendence
between
> > the mic pre output and stomp box input. What's you mixer situation? Run
the
> > mic pre out into one channel and then use an effects send out to a Reamp
box
> > to the stomp box to a DI to a mic input.
> >
> > There are also cheap passive mic line level splitters you could use
although
> > I haven't tried this one it's cheap :
> > http://www.grandmas.com/ItemArtSplitCOM.html
>
>
> John,
>
> If I'm going into a mixer channel, couldn't I just send the Aux output
> directly into the stomp box? I could lower the aux send level, and I
> think the aux sends can handle unbalanced connections. Would I really
> need the Reamp? Using the mixer would be nice, since I could avoid any
> splitters.
>
> Thanks for your help,
> Jacob

Yes, you can do what you say. If it sounds OK then you're good to go. I
think I may have done this in the past myself. Something like the Reamp box
just gives the stomp box the impedance it's expecting so it might sound
better but . . .

Best of luck!

John L Rice

[Monte P McGuire]

In article >,
Jacob Weber > wrote:
>Unfortunately I'm not going to have much time between now and the
>session to make something....I was hoping I could do this with
>cheapies found at Radio Shack or the local Sam Ash. DIs are no
>problem, so the main issue is getting into the stomp box. Do you know
>of anything off the shelf that could pad and un-balance the signal?
>What if I sent it into a mixer channel (as another poster suggested),
>and used an aux output? Could I then just pad it using the volume
>control? Or is the difference between instrument level and line level
>too much?

This could work, but depending on the mixer, it might be a little
noisier than you'd like. Try it out though... and it would definitely
prevent any sort of clicks or pops that the stompbox feed might
impinge upon the mike signal. Instrument levels aren't all that low,
maybe around 15dB below zero, so it's not that far of a stretch.

>What do you think about the Y-splitter? Can I get away with it, or am
>I going to need something better?

A Y cable could do fine, but you'll want a pad of some sort at one end
for the stompbox, and if you don't know how to solder or make one,
that could be a stumbling block. The mixer might be the simplest option...


What sort of effect is the singer operating? If it's not a high gain,
super distorto pedal, then the noise from a mixer might not be an
issue at all.


Regards,

Monte McGuire

[Jeffrey S. Long]

Set up two mics and run the effected signal to him in the cue mix.

[Monte P McGuire]

In article >,
Jeffrey S. Long > wrote:
>Set up two mics and run the effected signal to him in the cue mix.

But, if the effects are good, why not track it also? Why set yourself
up to recreate something you already had?


Regards,

Monte McGuire

[Jacob Weber]

Worked like a champ. Thanks, everyone.
Jacob

[John L Rice]

"Jacob Weber" > wrote in message
om...
> Worked like a champ. Thanks, everyone.
> Jacob

What method did you use? The two mic approach?

John L Rice