Frequency range of Radio Shack spl meter.

[Nono]

I read here and there that the Radio Shack has a cheap spl meter that
is adequate for simple sound level measurements.
However, as Radio Shack is not available in Europe, I'm looking at
other brands.
But, all of those in similar price category have a frequency range up
to only 8kHz.
I've been trying to find out what the frequency range is of the Radio
Shack spl meter, but I cannot find any technical specification.
Does anyone know what the frequency range is of the Radio Shack spl
meter, or which other brand is a good alternative for the RAdio Shack
one?

Many thanks in advance.
Norman.

[Arny Krueger]

"Nono" > wrote in message

> I read here and there that the Radio Shack has a cheap
> spl meter that is adequate for simple sound level
> measurements.
> However, as Radio Shack is not available in Europe, I'm
> looking at other brands.
> But, all of those in similar price category have a
> frequency range up to only 8kHz.
> I've been trying to find out what the frequency range is
> of the Radio Shack spl meter, but I cannot find any
> technical specification.
> Does anyone know what the frequency range is of the Radio
> Shack spl meter, or which other brand is a good
> alternative for the RAdio Shack one?
>
> Many thanks in advance.

The Rat Shack Meters have had their FR tested many times, with fairly
consistent results.

Search google for Radio Shack SPL Meter Calibration Curve

Example:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/spl-meters-mics-calibration-sound-cards/361-radio-shack-spl-meter-correction-values-all-new-cal-files-published.html

[William Sommerwerck]

Some magazine -- it might have been Audio eXpress -- tested the RadioShack
SLMs a year or so ago. The original model wasn't that great, and the
succeeding models were poorer and poorer.

They don't have a particularly wide response, and worse, they're not very
flat. You can't expect to get any sort of meaningful measurement of
frequency response with them.

[Nono]

On 22 sep, 15:59, "William Sommerwerck" >
wrote:
> Some magazine -- it might have been Audio eXpress -- tested the RadioShack
> SLMs a year or so ago. The original model wasn't that great, and the
> succeeding models were poorer and poorer.
>
> They don't have a particularly wide response, and worse, they're not very
> flat. You can't expect to get any sort of meaningful measurement of
> frequency response with them.

Can they still be used to measure just the sound level?
Could I then conlude that in that case neither the lack of flat
frequency response or limited frequency range would be such an issue,
as long as I feed the speakers material with those frequencies that
fall within the range of the spl meter?

[Scott Dorsey]

Nono > wrote:
>I read here and there that the Radio Shack has a cheap spl meter that
>is adequate for simple sound level measurements.
>However, as Radio Shack is not available in Europe, I'm looking at
>other brands.
>But, all of those in similar price category have a frequency range up
>to only 8kHz.
>I've been trying to find out what the frequency range is of the Radio
>Shack spl meter, but I cannot find any technical specification.
>Does anyone know what the frequency range is of the Radio Shack spl
>meter, or which other brand is a good alternative for the RAdio Shack
>one?

It has standard A-weighting and C-weighting. The A-weighting and C-weighting
curves can be found on in the B&K book on sound pressure levels.

It is not meaningful at all to say something has a "frequency range up to
only 8Khz." There is no magic frequency at which it abruptly ceases to
respond.

What do you want to actually measure with the meter? And why?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Richard Crowley]

Nono wrote:
> "William Sommerwerck" wrote:
>> Some magazine -- it might have been Audio eXpress -- tested the
>> RadioShack SLMs a year or so ago. The original model wasn't that
>> great, and the succeeding models were poorer and poorer.
>>
>> They don't have a particularly wide response, and worse, they're not
>> very flat. You can't expect to get any sort of meaningful
>> measurement of frequency response with them.
>
> Can they still be used to measure just the sound level?
> Could I then conlude that in that case neither the lack of flat
> frequency response or limited frequency range would be such an issue,
> as long as I feed the speakers material with those frequencies that
> fall within the range of the spl meter?

Why are your truing to measure SPL? By the time you get up
to 8KHz, you are talking about only overtones or harmonics.
Are yo measuring "normal audio" (music and speech) or do you
have some special industrial application that requires flat response
up to 10KHz or 20KHz, etc?

[Scott Dorsey]

William Sommerwerck > wrote:
>Some magazine -- it might have been Audio eXpress -- tested the RadioShack
>SLMs a year or so ago. The original model wasn't that great, and the
>succeeding models were poorer and poorer.
>
>They don't have a particularly wide response, and worse, they're not very
>flat. You can't expect to get any sort of meaningful measurement of
>frequency response with them.

They aren't supposed to be flat, they are supposed to match the published
curves.

They don't, really, but they are usually within 3 dB or so of the published
curve, which is just fine for detecting room modes. Not so useful for
mike calibration, though.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Nono]

On 22 sep, 16:38, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> Nono > wrote:
> >I read here and there that the Radio Shack has a cheap spl meter that
> >is adequate for simple sound level measurements.
> >However, as Radio Shack is not available in Europe, I'm looking at
> >other brands.
> >But, all of those in similar price category have a frequency range up
> >to only 8kHz.
> >I've been trying to find out what the frequency range is of the Radio
> >Shack spl meter, but I cannot find any technical specification.
> >Does anyone know what the frequency range is of the Radio Shack spl
> >meter, or which other brand is a good alternative for the RAdio Shack
> >one?
>
> It has standard A-weighting and C-weighting. *The A-weighting and C-weighting
> curves can be found on in the B&K book on sound pressure levels.
>
> It is not meaningful at all to say something has a "frequency range up to
> only 8Khz." *There is no magic frequency at which it abruptly ceases to
> respond. *
>
> What do you want to actually measure with the meter? *And why?
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. *C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


I have Genelec 1031A speakers for monitoring and these have input
sensitivity controls ranging from -6dBu to +6dBu to match them to the
CRM outs of the console.
As these controls are not detented I cannot get the controls set to an
equal value for both speakers in order to get the same level response
from both of them.
Now I have the controls set to the max (+6dBu) for both speakers and
even so I do not know how accurate that is.

The second reason is that I want to find out if this optimum SPL level
for reference mixing of 85dB might be another step in improving my
mixing. But then I'd need to know how loud that is.

I thought that a spl meter, especially since it is not too expensive,
could help me with these issues?

Of course I any of you have other/better suggestions, I'm eager to
learn.

[Nono]

On 22 sep, 16:39, "Richard Crowley" > wrote:
> Nono wrote:
> > "William Sommerwerck" *wrote:
> >> Some magazine -- it might have been Audio eXpress -- tested the
> >> RadioShack SLMs a year or so ago. The original model wasn't that
> >> great, and the succeeding models were poorer and poorer.
>
> >> They don't have a particularly wide response, and worse, they're not
> >> very flat. You can't expect to get any sort of meaningful
> >> measurement of frequency response with them.
>
> > Can they still be used to measure just the sound level?
> > Could I then conlude that in that case neither the lack of flat
> > frequency response or limited frequency range would be such an issue,
> > as long as I feed the speakers material with those frequencies that
> > fall within the range of the spl meter?
>
> Why are your truing to measure SPL? *By the time you get up
> to 8KHz, you are talking about only overtones or harmonics.
> Are yo measuring "normal audio" (music and speech) or do you
> have some special industrial application that requires flat response
> up to 10KHz or 20KHz, etc?

No, I just want to measure audio.
I just do not know what the specifications in terms of frequency range
should be for this type of equipment and application.
But, I'm learning here that the frequency range up to 8kHz is adequate
to measure normal audio?

[William Sommerwerck]

> As these controls are not detented I cannot get the controls
> set to an equal value for both speakers in order to get the
> same level response from both of them.

Having ears, hear ye not?

[Richard Crowley]

"Nono" wrote...
> I have Genelec 1031A speakers for monitoring and these have input
> sensitivity controls ranging from -6dBu to +6dBu to match them to the
> CRM outs of the console.
> As these controls are not detented I cannot get the controls set to an
> equal value for both speakers in order to get the same level response
> from both of them.

For that application, it makes no difference what the frequency
response of the SPL meter is. You are "tuning" for *equal* output
and if you are feeding the *same* signal into both speakers, then
the exact response of the SPL meter is factored out of the equation.

> The second reason is that I want to find out if this optimum SPL level
> for reference mixing of 85dB might be another step in improving my
> mixing. But then I'd need to know how loud that is.

> I thought that a spl meter, especially since it is not too expensive,
> could help me with these issues?

Any old SPL meter would do a completly adequate job for your
stated applications. In the case of absolute levels, the meter should
be somewhere close to SPL calibration (which you didn't mention).
The SPL of regular music and speech is hardly affected by levels
at 8KHz. I wouldn't give it a second thought.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_level_meter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weighting_filter

[Richard Crowley]

"William Sommerwerck" wrote ...
>> As these controls are not detented I cannot get the controls
>> set to an equal value for both speakers in order to get the
>> same level response from both of them.
>
> Having ears, hear ye not?

Some people don't trust their own ears.
(Or eyes either, presumably.)

[GregS[_3_]]

In article >, Nono > wrote:
>On 22 sep, 16:39, "Richard Crowley" > wrote:
>> Nono wrote:
>> > "William Sommerwerck" =A0wrote:
>> >> Some magazine -- it might have been Audio eXpress -- tested the
>> >> RadioShack SLMs a year or so ago. The original model wasn't that
>> >> great, and the succeeding models were poorer and poorer.
>>
>> >> They don't have a particularly wide response, and worse, they're not
>> >> very flat. You can't expect to get any sort of meaningful
>> >> measurement of frequency response with them.
>>
>> > Can they still be used to measure just the sound level?
>> > Could I then conlude that in that case neither the lack of flat
>> > frequency response or limited frequency range would be such an issue,
>> > as long as I feed the speakers material with those frequencies that
>> > fall within the range of the spl meter?
>>
>> Why are your truing to measure SPL? =A0By the time you get up
>> to 8KHz, you are talking about only overtones or harmonics.
>> Are yo measuring "normal audio" (music and speech) or do you
>> have some special industrial application that requires flat response
>> up to 10KHz or 20KHz, etc?
>
>No, I just want to measure audio.
>I just do not know what the specifications in terms of frequency range
>should be for this type of equipment and application.
>But, I'm learning here that the frequency range up to 8kHz is adequate
>to measure normal audio?

What are you doing ?
What kind of audio ?

Here is one test...

10Hz +20.5
12.5Hz +16.5
16Hz +11.5
20Hz +7.5
25Hz +5
31.5Hz +3
40Hz +2.5
50Hz +1.5
63Hz +1.5
80Hz +1.5
100Hz +2

125Hz +0.5
160Hz -0.5
200Hz -0.5
250Hz +0.5
315Hz -0.5
400Hz 0
500Hz -0.5
630Hz 0
800Hz 0
1KHz 0

1.25Khz 0
1.6KHz -0.5
2Khz -1.5
2.5Khz -1.5
3.15Khz -1.5
4KHz -2
5KHz -2
6.3KHz -2
8KHz -2
10Khz -1

12.5KHz +0.5
16KHz 0
20KHz +1

The thing about this, I don't agree with no peaking arounf 4-5 kHz.
This should be due to the mic element.

I like this one better..


20HZ =6.2DB 25HZ =4.4DB 31.5HZ =3DB 40HZ =2DB 50 =1.3DB
63HZ =.8DB 80 HZ =.5DB 100HZ =.3DB 125HZ =.2DB 160 =.1DB
200HZ to 1250HZ Flat
1600HZ = .1DB 2000HZ =.2DB 2500HZ =.3DB 3150HZ =.5DB
4KHZ =.8DB 5KHZ =1.3DB 6.3KHZ =2DB 8KHZ =3DB 10KHZ =4.4DB
12.5KHZ =6.2DB 16KHZ =8.5DB 20KHZ =11.2DB

I got involved with this measurment....

http://zekfrivolous.com/misc/quick.xls

greg

[Scott Dorsey]

Nono > wrote:
>
>I have Genelec 1031A speakers for monitoring and these have input
>sensitivity controls ranging from -6dBu to +6dBu to match them to the
>CRM outs of the console.
>As these controls are not detented I cannot get the controls set to an
>equal value for both speakers in order to get the same level response
>from both of them.

That's easy. All you need is a 1KC tone, and something that is accurate
at 1KC. You don't even need a real sound level meter, just a decent omni
microphone and a preamp with good metering.

>Now I have the controls set to the max (+6dBu) for both speakers and
>even so I do not know how accurate that is.

The room is probably skewing the imaging more than any channel imbalance is.

>The second reason is that I want to find out if this optimum SPL level
>for reference mixing of 85dB might be another step in improving my
>mixing. But then I'd need to know how loud that is.

Right. For that, you probably want an A-weighted meter, since I believe
the actual Dolby standard is for 85 dB A-weighted.

>I thought that a spl meter, especially since it is not too expensive,
>could help me with these issues?

Yes, and the RS cheapie should be fine. I believe that Maplin in the UK
is selling the exact same meter. All you need is approximate A-weighting.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

Nono > wrote:
>
>No, I just want to measure audio.
>I just do not know what the specifications in terms of frequency range
>should be for this type of equipment and application.

You want a meter that matches the curve that is of interest.

>But, I'm learning here that the frequency range up to 8kHz is adequate
>to measure normal audio?

There is no such thing as a "frequency range up to 8KHz." There are only
things that have relative response at 8 KHz with respect to response at
some other level. Anybody who gives you a frequency range without tolerances
is giving you made-up numbers that are less than worthless.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Ethan Winer[_3_]]

On Sep 22, 9:30 am, Nono > wrote:
> I've been trying to find out what the frequency range is of the Radio
> Shack spl meter, but I cannot find any technical specification.

Everything you want to know about that is right here:

http://www.realtraps.com/art_microphones.htm

More on room measuring in general here:

http://www.realtraps.com/art_etf.htm

Everything in the ETF article above applies equally to Room EQ Wizard
(excellent Windows freeware) and Fuzzmeasure (a bargain at $150, and
excellent for Mac users).

--Ethan

[Nono]

Guys,
Many thanks for your responses and enlightment.
I appreciate it very much.

Regards,
Norman.

[GregS[_3_]]

In article >, Ethan Winer > wrote:
>On Sep 22, 9:30 am, Nono > wrote:
>> I've been trying to find out what the frequency range is of the Radio
>> Shack spl meter, but I cannot find any technical specification.
>
>Everything you want to know about that is right here:
>
>http://www.realtraps.com/art_microphones.htm
>
>More on room measuring in general here:
>
>http://www.realtraps.com/art_etf.htm
>
>Everything in the ETF article above applies equally to Room EQ Wizard
>(excellent Windows freeware) and Fuzzmeasure (a bargain at $150, and
>excellent for Mac users).

I forgot about that page. Very good info.

Myself, I generally use my quick and dirty BSR 10 band spectrum analyzer
with its little mic. I even know when to subtract 3 dB from the bass band,
For that fellow with the monitors, I would just tempoarily reverse on set of leads,
and go for a null.

greg

[Les Cargill[_2_]]

Richard Crowley wrote:
> "William Sommerwerck" wrote ...
>>> As these controls are not detented I cannot get the controls
>>> set to an equal value for both speakers in order to get the
>>> same level response from both of them.
>> Having ears, hear ye not?
>
> Some people don't trust their own ears.
> (Or eyes either, presumably.)
>
>

Or it's a case of measure twice, cut once.

--
Les Cargill