Mixing 48k project

[Phil Hadaway]

I've got to mix a PT session that was tracked @48khz. My options are
the following:

1) I can run the mix out of an Apogee AD-8000 digital out to an
Apogee PSX-100 @48k to another DAW. (Then sample conversion to 44.1k)

2) Mix out of the Apogee analog outs to the analog outs on the PSX
@44.1k. (No sample conversion)

3) Bounce to disc within PT. Then transfer to DAW and do a sample
conversion.

4) Analog out to 1/4" Fostex E-22 @ 15ips then back to PSX @44.1k


I think the tape will probably sound best, but the client might want
to stay dig?


Any thoughts?

[EggHd]

<< 1) I can run the mix out of an Apogee AD-8000 digital out to an
Apogee PSX-100 @48k to another DAW. (Then sample conversion to 44.1k) >>

Does the other daw have better sample rate conversion?

<< 2) Mix out of the Apogee analog outs to the analog outs on the PSX
@44.1k. (No sample conversion) >>

To what?

<< 3) Bounce to disc within PT. Then transfer to DAW and do a sample
conversion. >>

Why all this transferring?

<< 4) Analog out to 1/4" Fostex E-22 @ 15ips then back to PSX @44.1k >>

Is the e22 all that great to go through this much da/ad?

What is the final project to going to be?



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

[Phil Hadaway]

On 04 Sep 2003 04:26:23 GMT, (EggHd) wrote:


>
>What is the final project to going to be?

CD @44k

[EggHd]

<< CD @44k >>

who masters it?


---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

[Phil Hadaway]

On 04 Sep 2003 04:45:28 GMT, (EggHd) wrote:

><< CD @44k >>
>
>who masters it?
>
Probably Rodney Mills.

I need to make some copies for the client myself. Will be using CD
architect to make a sequenced reference master. That's the need to
convert to 44k.

[EggHd]

<< Probably Rodney Mills. >>

He does a good job. I like the way his rate is set up.

<< Will be using CD
architect to make a sequenced reference master. That's the need to
convert to 44k. >>

Will Cd architect open protools files? Put them on a CDr and import them and
convert there?



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

[David Kalmusky]

> 4) Analog out to 1/4" Fostex E-22 @ 15ips then back to PSX @44.1k
>
would be "my" first option, hit er' hard to tape !

> 3) Bounce to disc within PT. Then transfer to DAW and do a sample
> conversion.

If the client wants to stay digital, then get your mix sounding the
way you want it... bounce to disk using Tweak Head (slowest)
conversion to 44,100 16bit, I'm not sure what "transfer to DAW
implies" your pro-tools rig, is a "DAW" it'll do the conversion for
you.

>
>
> I think the tape will probably sound best, but the client might want
> to stay dig?
>
>
> Any thoughts?
>

--
David Kalmusky

Visit the "DRAWER OF SHAME" if you dare,
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http://www.kalmusky.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=40

Or...

Post your crazy studio mishaps,
and funny studio stories, in my
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[EganMedia]

>> 4) Analog out to 1/4" Fostex E-22 @ 15ips then back to PSX @44.1k
>>
>
>This may be the "A" way to go... though I would highly recommend you get
>the client to rent some better sounding D/A converters before printing to
>the 1/4"... check with Rodney as to whether or not you can deliver the
>mixes in the 1/4" 15ips format...

Are you sure the E-22 is 1/4"? I thought the E-22 was the center track TC
version of the E-2 1/2" machine. If it in fact is an E-22 1/2" machine, just
bring the tape to Rodney. I sold him my 1/2" E-22 a few years ago.


Joe Egan
EMP
Colchester, VT
www.eganmedia.com

[Roger W. Norman]

****, Phil, do it a couple of ways and let him decide. First and easiest is
simply to bounce it down and then record that mix on analog tape, and you
have two done for the price of one, kinda. And the norm on most mixing
sessions that don't include someone from the group is to offer several takes
of the mixes anyway, like vocals up and down 1 dB (or whatever), guitars up
and down, etc. My first thought is that anything moved from digital to a
1/4" tape, even at 15 IPS, isn't going to offer a major amount of help for
the trouble. Maybe a Studer or Otari or, preferrably an ATR 102 1/2" two
track! <g>

And, unless you don't have a console, you missed one possibility, which is
to take the raw PT tracks and mix it on the console to both the computer and
analog tape simultaneously.

Unless the client is directly involved with the mixing portion of the
project, I'd say do the best you can for him in as many ways as possible
within his budget. If that means a digital mix within PT, then hey, that's
what it's there for and it does the job. If that mix might sound somehow a
little better coming off the analog tape, then so much the better because
now he has a choice.

That being said, if he comes back on you after all this work and says "I
don't like the mix", you're hours down and starting at milestone 0 again.

Also, even though SRC can be a variable in the situation, it's not likely to
be as key to acceptance from the client as the mix is, so it's just a
process that has to happen in order to get the product on a final CD. It's
not really part of the client's decision unless he absolutely HATES the
product and that's the only possible area for the problem.

But it all starts with his budget. If you WISH to put a little more time in
(like sometimes double) at the smaller fee, well, that's up to you, but the
concept is to be quick, efficient and GOOD. Do what fits within the time
the budget defines the most efficiently you can, and make it work. That
will probably be more than enough for your client to have a smile on their
face when they leave. After all, isn't that the idea?

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"Phil Hadaway" > wrote in message
...
> I've got to mix a PT session that was tracked @48khz. My options are
> the following:
>
> 1) I can run the mix out of an Apogee AD-8000 digital out to an
> Apogee PSX-100 @48k to another DAW. (Then sample conversion to 44.1k)
>
> 2) Mix out of the Apogee analog outs to the analog outs on the PSX
> @44.1k. (No sample conversion)
>
> 3) Bounce to disc within PT. Then transfer to DAW and do a sample
> conversion.
>
> 4) Analog out to 1/4" Fostex E-22 @ 15ips then back to PSX @44.1k
>
>
> I think the tape will probably sound best, but the client might want
> to stay dig?
>
>
> Any thoughts?

[Roger W. Norman]

Egg has a good point, although he's moving past it pretty quickly. You may
not have reason to worry past an analog tape if the client is pleased with
that mix. Use that for your mastering engineer's labors because that would
be what you're client had approved. I mean, keep in mind that most
mastering engineers have the ability to transfer most anything you could
throw at them with a LOT BETTER equipment than you might have. Even if you
sent them a digitally bounced CD-ROM with the data files on it, they'd still
have resources you don't have to accomplish the job.

Don't get bogged down in what YOU HAVE to complete the job. Keep how the
entire project COULD be done. If you start with limitations you have a
limited scope. For instance, we know that mastering engineers have better
listening environments, and we know they have more application specific
equipment, like really good converters, great EQ, dynamics processing, etc.
So if you were, say, to apply what you perceived as being a good mix with a
compresser strapped across the bus, you may actually be detracting from what
the mastering engineer could do, or perhaps even undo.

Therefore, if you do your job as a mixing engineer and get the approval of
the client for your endeavors, it doesn't equate to anything bad to you to
leave some of the more esoteric stuff to the other guy that can do the job
better. Essentially you'd be transferring some of the money you'd make for
your time, but the client would be getting a product that has that much more
professional effort into it for the same dollars. He'll come back that way.

Most of this message goes away if you were going to do the mastering. Then
the answer would be "Don't do it".

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"Phil Hadaway" > wrote in message
...
> On 04 Sep 2003 04:45:28 GMT, (EggHd) wrote:
>
> ><< CD @44k >>
> >
> >who masters it?
> >
> Probably Rodney Mills.
>
> I need to make some copies for the client myself. Will be using CD
> architect to make a sequenced reference master. That's the need to
> convert to 44k.
>

[Roger W. Norman]

Ah, don't you just love this group. Six degrees of separation, my ass! <g>
The world's far more connected than that these days, and boy am I glad it
is.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"EganMedia" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> >> 4) Analog out to 1/4" Fostex E-22 @ 15ips then back to PSX @44.1k
> >>
> >
> >This may be the "A" way to go... though I would highly recommend you get
> >the client to rent some better sounding D/A converters before printing to
> >the 1/4"... check with Rodney as to whether or not you can deliver the
> >mixes in the 1/4" 15ips format...
>
> Are you sure the E-22 is 1/4"? I thought the E-22 was the center track TC
> version of the E-2 1/2" machine. If it in fact is an E-22 1/2" machine,
just
> bring the tape to Rodney. I sold him my 1/2" E-22 a few years ago.
>
>
> Joe Egan
> EMP
> Colchester, VT
> www.eganmedia.com

[WillStG]

<< Phil Hadaway >>
<< I've got to mix a PT session that was tracked @48khz. >

Since you're not using a console but mixing inside protools, you might
just choose to mix to two open tracks inside your protools session at 48k, or
bounce to disk. This keeps you in the digital domain, and if the mastering
engineer decides to work in the analog domain anyway you have saved yourself a
digital "generation loss", so to speak. If he decides to work in the digital
domain he probably has a good idea of what SRC programs he likes best.

Then if you need to samplerate convert to burn a CD, Wave's SampleConvert
program sounded better than the internal Protools SRC to me, but then I haven't
tried this on an HD system or software beyond 5.01.

I have seen a lot of sessions where guys mixed to 1" tape as well as to
DAT, and ended up using the DATs in the end anyway.


Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Fox And Friends/Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits