Re: Guido

[JWelsh3374]

<< I assume everyone has read this. Good stuff, a >>


Thanks, John! I actually tooted my own horn at almost the same time you posted!
WooF!!!!



searching for peace, love and quality footwear
guido

http://www.guidotoons.com
http://www.theloniousmoog.com
http://www.luckymanclark.com

[Rob Adelman]

JWelsh3374 wrote:
> << I assume everyone has read this. Good stuff, a >>
>
>
> Thanks, John! I actually tooted my own horn at almost the same time you posted!
> WooF!!!!

Congrats! For what its worth I agree with the article about the
producing thing. I would love to have you go at it with my next project.
Hopefully sometime in this lifetime <g>

[JWelsh3374]

<< Congrats! For what its worth I agree with the article about the
producing thing. I would love to have you go at it with my next project.
Hopefully sometime in this lifetime <g> >>


Any time, brother!

Thanks



searching for peace, love and quality footwear
guido

http://www.guidotoons.com
http://www.theloniousmoog.com
http://www.luckymanclark.com

[JWelsh3374]

<< I guess not. >>


Rock ’n’ Retail:
Former Punker Calls Tunes for Wal-Mart


‘Guido’ Welsh Revs Up Troops With His Original Songs; ‘The Brand Name Is
Me’

By Ann Zimmerman
The Wall Street Journal, September 3, 2003
HOUSTON — Wal-Mart Stores Inc. is so thrifty that its managers — including
top brass — still share hotel rooms on the road. Companywide manager meetings
are held in Texas in steamy August and in Kansas in frigid February, when the
hotel rooms are cheapest. But the famously frugal company would never consider
scrimping on one frill: Joe Welsh, a 48-year-old, bleached-blond guitarist and
songwriter who goes by the name Guido and, with four other musicians, is the
company’s unofficial house band.
“He follows us everywhere,� says Jane Thompson, president of Wal-Mart’s
financial-services division.
At 6 a.m. on a recent rainy Thursday, Wal-Mart managers gathered for a midyear
merchandise meeting. While the streets around the George R. Brown Convention
Center here were dark and deserted, bleachers inside the cavernous hall were
packed with 4,000 Wal-Mart employees clapping and gyrating to Mr. Welsh’s
rendition of Jeff Beck’s Freeway Jam, their name badges bobbing with the
music.
“What time is it?� shouted Mr. Welsh, as he hopped around the
purple-and-red-lighted stage in sunglasses and checkered sport coat.
“It’s Wal-Mart time!� the crowd shouted back. On cue, Mr. Welsh’s band
launched into his anthem of the same name:

Well, c’mon everybody, it’s time to rock
Wake yourself up, it’s nearly 7 o’clock
We’ve got a whole lotta things we’re gonna talk about
Do a cheer or two where we’ll jump and shout
I know it’s early, I’ve been here all night
We’re busy working on Wal-Mart time.
Oh, don’t you know it. We rockin’ now b-b-b-baby.
The song, which comes at the end of a 20-minute set of classic rock tunes, ends
in a rhythm-and-blues version of the Wal-Mart cheer: “Give me a W, Give me an
A, Give me an L, Give me a Squiggle — [everyone shimmies] — Give me an M,
Give me an A, Give me an R, Give me a T. What’s that spell? Wal-Mart. I
can’t hear you. Wal-Mart. Who’s No. 1? The customer. Always. Uhn! Whose
Wal-Mart is it? It’s my Wal-Mart.�
For the next hour and a half, the company’s top executives took the stage and
updated the field officers on the state of Wal-Mart’s business and
expectations for the second half of the year. They spent the rest of the day
looking at new products for the holidays in a replica of a Wal-Mart
supercenter.
“These are long, challenging meetings and Guido gets the blood flowing,�
says Wal-Mart Chief Executive Lee Scott. Mr. Scott’s wife, Linda, is such a
big fan that she hired Mr. Welsh to play at their son’s wedding in 1997.
“In fact, Guido’s the only reason my wife comes to the meetings,� Mr.
Scott says.
Mr. Welsh is more than just a warm-up act. “He’s a culture builder,� says
Joe Huber, 31, manager of a Wal-Mart supercenter in Spencer, Iowa, who plays
Mr. Welsh’s two Wal-Mart-themed compact discs for employees at store meetings
“to get them energized.�
An independent music producer in Nashville, Mr. Welsh plays 30 days a year for
Wal-Mart, including the annual shareholders meeting, which draws 20,000 people
to the Bud Walton Arena at the University of Arkansas. It’s an unusually
appreciative audience, even at the usual 6 a.m. show time.
Joe Welsh took on the name Guido years ago after a bar owner said his original
country band should wear cowboy hats. Because he is short and round, Mr. Welsh
thought he would look stupid. So he donned a Panama hat instead, and the band
strarted calling him Guido, the Italian cowboy. Neither Italian nor a cowboy,
he went on to have a punk band at first called Guido Toledo and, later, the
Guidals. Eleven years ago, broke and dejected after The Guidals failed to get a
national recording contract, he availed himself of his brother’s help in
getting work as a sound engineer with Vista Productions, a Missouri company
that handles sound and lighting for major Wal-Mart meetings.
He began work choosing background music and then played instrumentals for the
meetings. His big break came in 1993 when Randy Parker, who was special-events
coordinator for Wal-Mart, called and asked him to write a song. Inspired by all
the Wal-Mart trucks on the road as he drove sound equipment to Dallas, he wrote
“Wal-Mart Proud,� which got a 15-minute ovation and launched a new career.
Mr. Welsh has since played every Wal-Mart meeting in the U.S. and one in
Canada. He has composed more than 30 Wal-Mart songs in his Nashville studio,
funded by his Wal-Mart income. For inspiration, he mines legendary founder Sam
Walton’s biography — he has read it five times — or picks up messages
conveyed in the meetings.
For Wal-Mart’s big merchandising kick-off meeting in Kansas last winter, Mr.
Welsh wrote “It’s My Wal-Mart�:

There is no big secret to our great success
Just pride and a legacy with which we are blessed
It is more than a tradition… there is more we can do
We can make a difference because the brand name is me and you
It’s My Wal-Mart….�
“It’s not a hip gig, but it’s a great gig,� he says. “It’s a
million people in tune with you. It’s almost like a cult.�
Mr. Welsh refers to Wal-Mart’s more than one million employees as
Wal-Martians. Managers often gather around the stage to greet him when he’s
finished. They’ll frequently ask him to play more current music, but he is
careful to keep the music inoffensive — the toughest part of the job, he
says.
At a meeting in 1994, he started dating Margaret Brandon, a Wal-Mart district
manager from Arkansas — “a nice country girl with a good job,� he says
—and married her two years later.
One night during a Dalls meeting, his Wal-Mart fans saw him at a club and began
shouting his name, much to the chagrin of the blues trio that was performing.
Mr. Welsh apologized to the band, explained the situation and asked to sit in
for a number so the crowd would behave. The band refused and then, to embarass
Mr. Welsh, announced to the crowd that Mr. Welsh was now working for Kmart,
according to Mr. Welsh and Brent Hoad, a Kansas City musician who plays in the
band.
Mr. Welsh walked out, and his Wal-Mart fans followed, emptying the room.
Mr. Welsh won’t disclose how much he makes working for Wal-Mart. “It pays
the bills,� he says.
Mr. Welsh still dreams of making it big, but he thinks his best shot is as a
record producer. He has cut two albums recently, including a rock ’n’ roll
disc of mostly original songs, called Lucky Man Clark. Mr. Welsh’s lyrics are
a little darker than the ones he writes for Wal-Mart. In a song called
“Apocalypso,� he writes:

Take a look outside … it’s getting darker out there
Craziness and rounders swarm around us everywhere.
©2003 The Wall Street Journal
searching for peace, love and quality footwear
guido

http://www.guidotoons.com
http://www.theloniousmoog.com
http://www.luckymanclark.com

[Aaron Householter]

Along with my thinking that wal-mart is all that is bad about a free
economy in this country, this sounds a bit like a Hitler Youth
Meeting. The mindless mass of Wal-Mart execs getting excited as if
this bull**** company doesn't sell scores of low priced **** to the
lemmings. Let's not forget that these assholes are the same ones who
"modify" the Cd's they sell in their stores.
Hey Guido, call me, I have some new lyrics for your song, let's work
on these and make it real. Here's a little excerpt " Hey, hey we're
the wal-marts people say we cater to white trash, hey hey we're the
wal-marts we help make America a ****ty, non caring, no quality, send
your jobs overseas while making ads that act like we care about saving
a small rural town in the midwest, disposable bull**** gang." Yeah,
Yeah, Yeah (Paul M. helped with the last bit)
Aaron Householter
studio1117

[Douglas Findley]

Funny how The Monkeys transformed into a hardcore rap. ;-)

Doug

> ...Here's a little excerpt " Hey, hey we're
> the wal-marts people say we cater to white trash, hey hey we're the
> wal-marts we help make America a ****ty, non caring, no quality, send
> your jobs overseas while making ads that act like we care about saving
> a small rural town in the midwest, disposable bull**** gang." Yeah,
> Yeah, Yeah (Paul M. helped with the last bit)
> Aaron Householter
> studio1117

[Dave Martin]

"Aaron Householter" > wrote in message
om...
> Along with my thinking that wal-mart is all that is bad about a free
> economy in this country, this sounds a bit like a Hitler Youth
> Meeting.

Give me a break - have you never done corporate dates before? Never done an
Amway convention? For that matter, ever seen a Microsoft or Apple event when
they're unveiling a new product? Or a revival? Or ever been paid a decent
amount to do ANY gig? A singer friend who does quite a few corporate dates
each year was telling me about how much fun it is to be flown First Class to
Hawaii for 10 days, be put in a luxury hotel on the beach where she could
charge up to $75 per day to the room (for anything from food to massages to
gifts) and then be paid an indecently large sum of money to do 45 minute
shows on three of those 10 days. I'd take that sort of gig in a heartbeat,
and would play naked if that's what they wanted.

Guido's got a good gig; he's not responsible for Wal-Mart's buying policy,
the customers that they attract, or the fact that the chain chooses not to
sell certain products that offend its corporate sensibility. And unlike you,
he apparently has a life...

--
Dave Martin
Java Jive Studio
Nashville, TN
www.javajivestudio.com

[EggHd]

<< Guido's got a good gig; he's not responsible for Wal-Mart's buying policy,
the customers that they attract, or the fact that the chain chooses not to
sell certain products that offend its corporate sensibility. And unlike you,
he apparently has a life... >>

It's one goofball that brought up the stupid ****.

It's not easy to land one of those gig AND keep it for so long.

Bravo!



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

[Roger W. Norman]

Amateur.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"Aaron Householter" > wrote in message
om...
> Along with my thinking that wal-mart is all that is bad about a free
> economy in this country, this sounds a bit like a Hitler Youth
> Meeting. The mindless mass of Wal-Mart execs getting excited as if
> this bull**** company doesn't sell scores of low priced **** to the
> lemmings. Let's not forget that these assholes are the same ones who
> "modify" the Cd's they sell in their stores.
> Hey Guido, call me, I have some new lyrics for your song, let's work
> on these and make it real. Here's a little excerpt " Hey, hey we're
> the wal-marts people say we cater to white trash, hey hey we're the
> wal-marts we help make America a ****ty, non caring, no quality, send
> your jobs overseas while making ads that act like we care about saving
> a small rural town in the midwest, disposable bull**** gang." Yeah,
> Yeah, Yeah (Paul M. helped with the last bit)
> Aaron Householter
> studio1117

[Steve Holt]

"EggHd" > wrote in message
...
> << Guido's got a good gig; he's not responsible for Wal-Mart's buying
policy,
> the customers that they attract, or the fact that the chain chooses not to
> sell certain products that offend its corporate sensibility. And unlike
you,
> he apparently has a life... >>
>
> It's one goofball that brought up the stupid ****.
>
> It's not easy to land one of those gig AND keep it for so long.
>
> Bravo!
>


Hey wait a minute. This boy might have a point. There are some things a
musician just shouldn't do. Playing for employers that make lots of money is
just one of them. What about certain songs? I can think of lots of songs
that I just won't play because of the message of the lyrics. And certain
instruments are out of the question. Timbales is a left wing pinko
instrument. Won't find any of that in my studio. And everybody knows that
accordion players are all fascists. And forget classical music altogether.
Very right wing, conservative. Come to think of it, certain keys bug me.
Never liked the key of F... very Gregorian.

Steve Holt
INNER MUSIC
Music Creation & Production
http://www.inner-music.com
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/steveholt

[NeilH011]

>I'm not saying Guido
>shouldn't do it, maybe he takes the gigs to make money so he can make
>"real music" in his time and feed a family. But I personally wouldn't
>do it.

I would most definitely do it if that's what I had to do to feed my family, no
question about it... but I'm sure glad as hell that I don't HAVE to do it.

One one hand, it's a good gig (apparently), so good for Guido; OTOH, you may as
well give out blowjobs in the boardroom & rationalize that "this enables me to
do the music I REALLY love in my spare time".

I dunno, maybe that's too judgemental.

NeilH

[balt4house]

"Steve Holt" > wrote in
:

> Hey wait a minute. This boy might have a point. There are some things
> a musician just shouldn't do. Playing for employers that make lots of
> money is just one of them. What about certain songs? I can think of
> lots of songs that I just won't play because of the message of the
> lyrics. And certain instruments are out of the question. Timbales is a
> left wing pinko instrument. Won't find any of that in my studio. And
> everybody knows that accordion players are all fascists. And forget
> classical music altogether. Very right wing, conservative. Come to
> think of it, certain keys bug me. Never liked the key of F... very
> Gregorian.
>

I'm with ya... I feel bad for not realizing this sooner. Just fired the
guiro player who's recording for our next album. Never liked the looks of
him - I think he said his middle name was Sandinista... or was it
Sabatista...who cares - I think he might be yella...

[Artie Turner]

Aaron Householter wrote:

> be a little more choosey about who you do them for. I wouldn'y play a
> gig for anybody that told me that the cover on my album was affensive
> and needed to be changed so they could sell it in their stores.

Do you even have an album, or is this just a pre-emptive whine?

AT
> Aaron Householter
> studio1117

[Steve Holt]

"Aaron Householter" > wrote in message
m...
I wouldn'y play a gig for anybody that told me that the cover on my album
was affensive
> and needed to be changed so they could sell it in their stores.
> Aaron Householter
> studio1117


Don't you think that the major labels in their current form are more dubious
than a company like Wal-Mart? So if you could be signed to a major, can we
assume that you'd say no? (Careful now... )


--
Steve Holt
INNER MUSIC
Music Creation & Production
http://www.inner-music.com
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/steveholt

[Steve Holt]

> "Aaron Householter" > wrote in message
> m...
> I wouldn'y play a gig for anybody that told me that the cover on my album
> was affensive
> > and needed to be changed so they could sell it in their stores.
> > Aaron Householter
> > studio1117
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Holt" >
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 10:48 AM
Subject: Re: Guido

> Don't you think that the major labels in their current form are more
dubious
> than a company like Wal-Mart? So if you could be signed to a major, can we
> assume that you'd say no? (Careful now... )
>



BTW, no matter what your music sounds like, I can guarantee that those nice
helpful A&R people would definitely want to change more than the album
cover.

Steve Holt
INNER MUSIC
Music Creation & Production
http://www.inner-music.com
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/steveholt

[Steve King]

"Steve Holt" > wrote in message
.. .
> "Aaron Householter" > wrote in message
> m...
> I wouldn'y play a gig for anybody that told me that the cover on my album
> was affensive
> > and needed to be changed so they could sell it in their stores.
> > Aaron Householter
> > studio1117
>
>
> Don't you think that the major labels in their current form are more
dubious
> than a company like Wal-Mart? So if you could be signed to a major, can we
> assume that you'd say no? (Careful now... )
>
>
> --
> Steve Holt
> INNER MUSIC
> Music Creation & Production
> http://www.inner-music.com
> http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/steveholt
>
>

I don't believe that I have ever heard in my entire and very long career in
audio recording any "artist" who only plays "for the sake of the music" that
didn't just suck. Of course I haven't heard all "artists", thank God.

Steve King

[NeilH011]

>BTW, no matter what your music sounds like, I can guarantee that those nice
>helpful A&R people would definitely want to change more than the album
>cover.

"Yeah, and what's that haircut all about? We've gotta get this guy to a
stylist! Oh, and by the way, he's gonna need a few tattoos, and perhaps a lip
piercing like that guy in 'Disturbed' - kids dig that sorta thing. And while
we're at it, let's start leaking a rumor that he's gay, that's always good for
some free publicity" LOL!

NeilH

[Peter B.]

(Aaron Householter) wrote in message >...
I personally do
> music because I like to do music, if you play because of pay good for
> you. I'm not saying I'd do it for free, but I like having the choice
> to say no to places like Wal-Mart.

I haven't heard him bitch once about how he hates his job or feels
like a slave to the money. Maybe he has a good time doing it? Life is
too short to not enjoy yourself, right?

I'll
> tell you why that is, because you're in it for the money, and you are
> defending exactly what most of you bitch about in this very room. The
> old no art BS mantra that you all keep repeating, yet you say take the
> ****ty posh gigs and defend them somehow.

Isn't art to some degree (if not a large degree) another form of
communication between people? These people he is playing for work at
Wal-Mart. They all have a common daily experience and can relate to
each other and the music in some way. It's facilitating communication
between them in a positive way. Isn't it better that these people can
get happy over what they do for a living? Would you rather see them
moaping around hating life because of what they do for a living? If
one person can appreciate the message and relate to it, it's art.




Don't get me wrong, I'm not a paranoid, I
> just refuse to pay to see more MTV/VH1 lifestyles of the young
> popstars shows that are fed to us buy marketing people, not artists.

I guess that means you don't realte to them. I don't either.

> Real music is out there folks and it's being made by real people,

People you can relate to.


BTW look back in history and
> see how many of the great artists lived the high lifestyle. Not many.
> Most gained fame after their deaths (dying often broke) But they did
> what they did because they loved it, not because they got a $75 dollar
> expense account to spend on a massage (man you sell out cheap).

I bet they even had people around them talking as if the artist
himself didn't love what he was doing just because those people
couldn't relate to the art being made.


I'm
> not saying you shouldn'y play gigs and get paid for them at all, even
> the greats painted throw away pictures to pay the rent, but just maybe
> be a little more choosey about who you do them for. I wouldn'y play a
> gig for anybody that told me that the cover on my album was affensive
> and needed to be changed so they could sell it in their stores.
> Aaron Householter
> studio1117


Even the greats learned a tremendous amount with each 'throw away'
painting. I'm sure part of what made them great was the ability to
take advantage of opportunities to hone their craft and experiment
with a new technique on a smaller scale. I guess they must have made
those painting too because they loved what they did for a living.

Peter

[LeBaron & Alrich]

Artie Turner > wrote:

> Aaron Householter wrote:

> > be a little more choosey about who you do them for. I wouldn'y play a
> > gig for anybody that told me that the cover on my album was affensive
> > and needed to be changed so they could sell it in their stores.

> Do you even have an album, or is this just a pre-emptive whine?

Hey, troops, there are good points all around.

I don't resent Guido his gig; there's a certain kind of special talent
that can generate apparent emotion over stupid ****. Think of jingle
singers sounding like they're gonna squirt all over you because they
just opened some brand of soda pop or a new laundry soap that claims
finally to get their butt stains out. That stuff doesn't reach me. I
don't respond to the "emotion" and I don't go out and buy the crap. In
fact, I usually silence the medium almost at once.

When WalMart opened a store in our region we tried it out. Then we
learned a few things about their market entry stratgies, employment
practices at the non managerial level, and we noticed all that red,
white and blue bull**** while there was almost nothing in the store made
in the USA, and then we took a look at the quality of $1.59 "shoes" and
such and haven't gone back.

We all make choices to do or not do what we do or do not do. Some whores
do not **** smelly old toothless peoples, and some do. We're a nation of
people who "love" inanimate stuff, judging by vernacularities, so our
roots are sufficiently shallow that most cheap winds can blow us right
over.

Guess I'll have to get Guido's real album. One could think his WM job
would erode his art, or one could discover that the tension caused by
the WM job added to his fuel without inducing starvation.

In any case, congrats to Guido, and I'll keep shopping elsewhere.

--
hank alrich * secret mountain
audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement
"If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose"

[LeBaron & Alrich]

Steve King > wrote:

> I don't believe that I have ever heard in my entire and very long career in
> audio recording any "artist" who only plays "for the sake of the music" that
> didn't just suck. Of course I haven't heard all "artists", thank God.

I know a couple of wonderful guitarists who are rarely heard by other
than their own family memebers. Hearing them can make one wish they had
larger exposure, but they choose to use their music only for their own
personal enjoyment. They just happen to be better than lots of pros I've
recorded.

--
hank alrich * secret mountain
audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement
"If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose"

[Steve King]

"LeBaron & Alrich" > wrote in message
.. .
> Steve King > wrote:
>
> > I don't believe that I have ever heard in my entire and very long career
in
> > audio recording any "artist" who only plays "for the sake of the music"
that
> > didn't just suck. Of course I haven't heard all "artists", thank God.
>
> I know a couple of wonderful guitarists who are rarely heard by other
> than their own family memebers. Hearing them can make one wish they had
> larger exposure, but they choose to use their music only for their own
> personal enjoyment. They just happen to be better than lots of pros I've
> recorded.
>
> --
> hank alrich * secret mountain
> audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement
> "If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose"

Hank is, of course, right. I recall recording a series of Blues performers
back in the 70s who were not professionals... who played with family and
friends and at church and were wonderful. What I should have said is that I
have never run across anyone who talks about "how they just play for the
music and all those famous and not so famous musicians who do it for the
money are just sell-outs" who didn't themselves just suck. I have found
that talented musicians tend to admire other talented musicians no matter
what their style of music or where they play. Its the judgemental "above it
all" types that yank my chain. Of course, I'm being judgemental, too. But,
that is different. Right? LOL

Steve King

[Steve King]

"Dave Martin" > wrote in message
...
> Aaron, you're full of ****. Most musicians ARE whores. The only real
> difference between me and an LA street hooker is that there may be some
THEY
> won't do for money. I don't have that luxury. I've played in pit
orchestras,
> concert orchestras, show bands, rock bands, country bands, disco bands,
> bluegrass bands, swing bands, steel drum bands, duos, trios, and just
about
> every other possible combination, up to a band with 23 bass players (That
> one didn't pay). I've recorded albums with singers so pathetic it sounded
> like we were making a comedy record. And I've done live shows with singers
> of the same quality. I've worked with heroin addicts who would grab the
door
> money before we started to play to buy smack so he could get through the
gig
> (but I made sure that I got paid). For that matter, I quit drinking and
> doing drugs while I was with a band that did both to excess; I was
> embarrassed by their actions and wanted to disassociate myself with them,
> but wouldn't give up the money (which was pretty good for 1976), so I
fairly
> ostentatiously quit drinking. It was a gig, and it paid - I did it.
>
> I've played gigs wearing tuxedos, suits, Hawaiian shirts and shorts, Elvis
> costumes, dressed as Thomas Jefferson as well as various monsters and
other
> famous people. They were gigs and they paid - I did 'em.
>
> Bar Mitzvahs, Biker bars, cowboy bars, weddings, funerals, supermarket
> openings, political rallies (Everything from republican gubernatorial
> candidates to democratic presidential rallies, VFW's Moose, Elks and Eagle
> (the whole animal circuit) lodges - They were gigs and they paid - I did
> 'em.
>
> "Put Your Little Foot" and "YMCA" usually pay better than "Born To Be
Wild"
> and anything Yes or Genesis ever recorded, so I'll play 'em if the client
> wants to hear them. For that matter, for 99% of the musicians in the US
and
> Europe, cover bands make more than those doing 'original' music.
>
> As an engineer and studio owner, I'd say that better than 90% percent of
the
> recordings I do are of no redeeming musical value (If you've listened to
> contemporary country radio, you should understand that). But that's what
I'm
> hired to do. I've pretty much given up fried food for a while, but I'm
still
> gonna play on a Captain D's jingle if the opportunity comes up, and
despite
> the fact that I don't drink, I'll be happy to play a Budweiser spot.
>
> You say that you 'make enough money to say no to those kinds bull****
gigs'.
> Great - you're another amateur who thinks he knows a ****ing thing about
> what being a professional musician is about. Worse, you seem to have
> absolutely NO idea of the history of art - or for that matter, the history
> of music. Most composers were employees of wealthy patrons and were
treated
> as such - the Royal Fireworks Suite was written because a rich guy wanted
> music to go with the show. The Water Music was the same way. Why did
Hayden
> write so many symphonies? It was in his employment contract. Why did Bach
> create as much music as he did? Because that was the gig, and he had a
> family to support. The fact that it was the greatest music in Western
> History was an accident - the city fathers simply wanted their church
> services to run smoothly. Mozart dies looking for a patron - someone who
> would give him a regular paycheck. Crack a ****in' book will you?
> Essentially every author was either wealthy or they wrote for money -
> Dostoyevsky, Chekov, Dickens, Twain - all of them. Dickens wasn't try to
> create 'art' when he wrote A Tale Of Two Cities', Nicolas Nickelby or
"Our
> Mutual Friend' - he was writing serial novels (on a deadline) to be
> published in installments. He wrote to get paid.
>
> You whined that Wal-Mart won't sell CD's if they disapprove of the cover -
> the packaging of CD's is 'marketing', not 'art'. If a company disapproves
of
> your advertising, they're certainly within their rights to not display
your
> ads. Newspapers do it all the time, as do magazines and television
stations.
> And that's all that CD covers are - ads for the music that's inside. It's
> simple - you want to sell your CD at Wal-mart, you have to meet their
> criteria for products that they sell. Guess what? They won't take products
> without a UPC either it's another part of their criteria. Are you going to
> get upset about that, too? But if you don't want to meet those criteria,
> don't sell your CD's there. If you were to ever actually GET in that
> position, it wouldn't be you making that decision anyway - it would be the
> label.
>
> I make my living playing and recording music. You admit that you don't -
> it's a hobby for you. Therefore, you're talking about things that you
don't
> understand; why not go back to lurking until you actually develop a clue?
> Here's a big one - "If they're payin, I'm playin'. "
> --
> Dave Martin
> Java Jive Studio
> Nashville, TN
> www.javajivestudio.com
>
> "Aaron Householter" > wrote in message
> m...

A bunch of crap SNIPPED.

Dave gets my vote for best post of the month? year?

Steve King

[Rob Adelman]

Aaron Householter wrote:

> Along with my thinking that wal-mart is all that is bad about a free
> economy in this country, this sounds a bit like a Hitler Youth
> Meeting. The mindless mass of Wal-Mart execs getting excited as if
> this bull**** company doesn't sell scores of low priced **** to the
> lemmings.

<enough of that noise>

I wasn't going to bother but, or forget it.

b.t.w. what is your wonderful job that you will be getting up for Monday
morning?

[Roger W. Norman]

First off, Guido isn't JUST a corporate monkey or anything like that. He's
an extremely talented guy who has the artistic bent that brings out such
greats as Levon Helm and Garth Hudson to play on his recently released
album. He's a well respected member of this newsgroup. His equipment list
is superb, but in part supported by his efforts on the corporate payroll.
He has good clients and he does a bang up job of recording them. Out of
this list, show me the errors of his ways. Is it, I presume from your
statements, that he actually makes money playing music and perhaps you
don't?

Let's realize something here, Aaron. You are the one that had to berate
someone else's good work. Guido's obviously consistent in his endeavors or
his employers wouldn't have him back, something one hell of a lot of
musicians find themselves "too good" to do, and a fatal flaw in those
musicians too. He obviously enjoys playing or nobody would want to listen
to him (hope that doesn't hit too close to home). And he's got a gig that
helps him make the mortgage payments and perhaps put a little something away
for his retirement. You remember retirement, don't you? Something not one
person in corporate America can take for granted anymore? He has a family,
just like a lot of us do, and music in itself is not a guaranteed income,
has no benefits package, and more than often makes paupers out of it's
advocates all because one has no choice but to do music, so one simply has
to make the money where/when they can.

Here's one clue for you. Your statement was "I personally do music because
I like to do music...". Well, most of us don't do music because we "like"
to do music. We do music because it runs in our veins. We LOVE it. It's
part of our every waking moment and even sleep does not stop music from
having an influence on what we do. We cannot get away from music. Music is
as much a part of us as we are a part of it and both are part of the cosmos.
There is nothing that can be done to take our music away, nor any shrill
words from someone that simply hasn't figured out yet just what the ****
being a musician really is. You see, Aaron, I've been a plumber, a cabinet
builder, owned and run retail operations, been a big company consultant in
the computer industry and a number of other things including a daddy and now
granddaddy, but the one thing I'll DIE AS IS A MUSICIAN. I'll play at the
drop of a hat because I want to. I'll play because someone asks me to.
I'll play because I get paid to. Out of these few statements that encompass
one hell of a whole lot, the key phrase is "I'LL PLAY".

Is it "selling out" as I again presume you are saying? No, it's not. It's
taking a god given talent and one's using it to the best of their abilities
to give their family the best life they can while taking crap from people
whom know nothing about them but feel they have every right to berate not
only their choices but their abilities. History may stand on the backs of
those who have done, but life stands on the backs of those that do.

Guido does, and he does it well.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"Aaron Householter" > wrote in message
m...
> Give me a break. Oh he has a good gig.....OK so what Hookers have good
> gigs. They get to **** and get paid. But part of that is ****ing
> slimey old toothless people.So if that's the life you choose..so be
> it. I don't have to. I make enough money to say no to those kind of
> Bull**** gigs. I like to play yes and I like to get paid, but I doubt
> I would take a gig for Wal-mart, amway or any other company I felt was
> Bull****. You people are simply making my point fact and that is that
> money rules the day with most of you, not art, nothing else, just
> money. Well if that's amatuer to you "pros" so be it. I personally do
> music because I like to do music, if you play because of pay good for
> you. I'm not saying I'd do it for free, but I like having the choice
> to say no to places like Wal-Mart. I notice nobody responded to the
> part I wrote about Wal-Mart changing packaging on Artists CD's. I'll
> tell you why that is, because you're in it for the money, and you are
> defending exactly what most of you bitch about in this very room. The
> old no art BS mantra that you all keep repeating, yet you say take the
> ****ty posh gigs and defend them somehow. I'm not saying Guido
> shouldn't do it, maybe he takes the gigs to make money so he can make
> "real music" in his time and feed a family. But I personally wouldn't
> do it. I think you only feed the big money machine of corporate
> control of your own life. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a paranoid, I
> just refuse to pay to see more MTV/VH1 lifestyles of the young
> popstars shows that are fed to us buy marketing people, not artists.
> Real music is out there folks and it's being made by real people, just
> obviously not many in this chat group. BTW look back in history and
> see how many of the great artists lived the high lifestyle. Not many.
> Most gained fame after their deaths (dying often broke) But they did
> what they did because they loved it, not because they got a $75 dollar
> expense account to spend on a massage (man you sell out cheap). I'm
> not saying you shouldn'y play gigs and get paid for them at all, even
> the greats painted throw away pictures to pay the rent, but just maybe
> be a little more choosey about who you do them for. I wouldn'y play a
> gig for anybody that told me that the cover on my album was affensive
> and needed to be changed so they could sell it in their stores.
> Aaron Householter
> studio1117

[Kurt Albershardt]

Dave Martin wrote:
> Aaron, you're full of ****. Most musicians ARE whores. The only real
> difference between me and an LA street hooker is that there may be some THEY
> won't do for money. I don't have that luxury. I've played in pit orchestras,
> concert orchestras, show bands, rock bands, country bands, disco bands,
> bluegrass bands, swing bands, steel drum bands, duos, trios, and just about
> every other possible combination, up to a band with 23 bass players (That
> one didn't pay). I've recorded albums with singers so pathetic it sounded
> like we were making a comedy record. And I've done live shows with singers
> of the same quality. I've worked with heroin addicts who would grab the door
> money before we started to play to buy smack so he could get through the gig
> (but I made sure that I got paid).
> ...

This one goes in the file under "superb definition of a working musician
in the real world."

I had quite a few friends and clients in Hollywood who were "working
actors," many of whose names you wouldn't know unless you were in the
business but whose faces (or voices) would be familiar to nearly
everyone in this country. They worked. Regularly. It was a job, and
they had something resembling regular work--unlike a huge number of
lesser-known (and often better-known) names. They had families, and
mortgages, and very non-Hollywood lifestyles for the most part.

[Aaron Householter]

Rob Adelman > wrote in message >...
> Aaron Householter wrote:
>
> > Along with my thinking that wal-mart is all that is bad about a free
> > economy in this country, this sounds a bit like a Hitler Youth
> > Meeting. The mindless mass of Wal-Mart execs getting excited as if
> > this bull**** company doesn't sell scores of low priced **** to the
> > lemmings.
>
> <enough of that noise>
>
> I wasn't going to bother but, or forget it.
>
> b.t.w. what is your wonderful job that you will be getting up for Monday
> morning?

Well, let's see, being a musician/studio owner, I work on weekend too.
But after a weekends worth of sessions, I'll start my Monday at the
real estate office(the perfect job for a musician) and sell some
houses to the masses. I enjoy this as much as music. Seeing someone
get excited about their first house is as fun as seeing someone hear a
great album for the first time and FEELING IT. (something I Imagine
75% of the people in this newsgroup have yet to do).
There you have it.
Aaron Householter
studio1117

[Fletcher]

Aaron Householter wrote:

>
> Well, let's see, being a musician/studio owner, I work on weekend too.

**** bro... work on the weekends? Miss Football? ...are you out of your ****ing mind? Personally, my 'rates'
double after sunset on Friday [or I'm working on something I dig so much... I don't charge at all!!].

>
> But after a weekends worth of sessions, I'll start my Monday at the
> real estate office(the perfect job for a musician) and sell some
> houses to the masses.

That's rich... when we bought our house my wife had to physically restrain me from beating the 'seller's agent'
into a small red globule... the agent that showed us the house wasn't much better... but at least she didn't
impede the process like the **** from Century 21 did... I guess she wasn't a musician...

> I enjoy this as much as music.

Excellent... really. To do what you love/enjoy is a blessing above most others... be happy about it.

> Seeing someone
> get excited about their first house is as fun as seeing someone hear a
> great album for the first time and FEELING IT. (something I Imagine
> 75% of the people in this newsgroup have yet to do).

Ya know... it's a funny thing about statistics... 86.947% of the time they're total bull****...

>
> There you have it.
> Aaron Householter
> studio1117

Yup... there is be.
--
Fletcher
Mercenary Audio
TEL: 508-543-0069
FAX: 508-543-9670
http://www.mercenary.com
"this is not a problem"

[simonstav]

> > But after a weekends worth of sessions, I'll start my Monday at the
> > real estate office(the perfect job for a musician) and sell some
> > houses to the masses.

Q: How do you know when an estate agent is lying?

A: Their lips are moving.


Regards Simon


---

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.515 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 1/09/03

[dt king]

"JWelsh3374" > wrote in message
...


> I would think the perfect job for a musician would be working as a
musician.

You might think so, but everytime I start doing something I love full time,
it just turns into work. I still have the dream that my band will have a
one-hit wonder and I can spend a year touring, but expect the reality
wouldn't be as much fun.

Congrats on the article -- nice bit of press, that.

dtk

[JWelsh3374]

<< Congrats on the article -- nice bit of press, that. >>


Yessir...I'm thanking ya!

I really dunno if I would have been able to stay in the music biz had it not
been for WM.

I was lucky to have found the job...but smart enough to keep it!




searching for peace, love and quality footwear
guido

http://www.guidotoons.com
http://www.theloniousmoog.com
http://www.luckymanclark.com

[Rob Adelman]

Aaron Householter wrote:

> But after a weekends worth of sessions, I'll start my Monday at the
> real estate office(the perfect job for a musician) and sell some
> houses to the masses. I enjoy this as much as music. Seeing someone
> get excited about their first house is as fun as seeing someone hear a
> great album for the first time and FEELING IT.

HA! Now this DOES explain a lot. You lie. You are not exited about
seeing somebody excited, you get exited when you receive your commission
check, be honest. And you claim that it is such a wonderful gig? Yah
right. Oh, I was an agent back in the 80's, for a few minutes.

Being a mortgage broker, I get the wonderful opportunity (sarcasm)to
work with real estate agents quite often.

I have to say that if I can think of any group of people that I
absolutely despise it would be this group. They make car salesman look
like saints.

Oh, I should tell you the story of my jerk-off agent who helped me buy
the current house I am in, or the first agent who tried to sell my
Boulder house (and cost me about 80 grand in the process). Actually I
have all kinds of horror stories of agents, I am trying to remember any
good stories, hmm, coming up blank...

[Steve Holt]

"Aaron Householter" > wrote in message
om...
> "Well Dave I had a nice long letter typed out to you about ****ing
> yourself and what an idiot you are and how It must be great to be a
> "real musician" and dressing up for gigs as a former president etc and
> having a musical career akin to being a pinball in the crappiest of
> bands but I deleted it on accident and besides you wouldn't have time
> to read it as you'ld probably be busy trying to squeeze into a carrot
> costume to go perform as a real "artist" at a Grand Opening of a
> Grocery store. (funny I always wondered where those **** bands came
> from that did those gigs and what the players must be like, now I know
> what truly,truly talented dip ****s they must be) **** Off
> Aaron Householter
> studio1117

You know, I think the problem with this Aaron fellow is that he suffers from
a disease called self-righteousness. He hasn't learned to respect his
fellows. He knows nothing about the adage "live and let live". In short,
he's got a long way to go.

--
Steve Holt
INNER MUSIC
Music Creation & Production
http://www.inner-music.com
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/steveholt

[LeBaron & Alrich]

EggHd > wrote:

> Let's see here.... Guido records and releases Lucky Man Clark and most
> everyone gives it a resounding thumbs up. Good art, people respond well.

> Guido comes to the community of RAP and asks about a bass player and has
> specific requirements and some people get very negative. Commerce

> Guido gets on the FRONT PAGE of the Wall Street Journal with a flatering
> story and some poeple get very negative. Again mostly about commerce.

> What is it that some people have against someone else's success?

Hey, I think it's _cool_ that Guido can do this, and I am glad he's got
the gig. If it's gonna happen at all it might as well be him. And yeah,
my negativity is aimed at the commerce of WM, not at him. WM is part of
our lust for the lowest prices, quality be damned, and in the end, we
are going to pay a hefty price for such an attitude.

To be clear:

1. Right on, Guido.
2. I think WalMart sucks.

<g>

--
ha

[LeBaron & Alrich]

Aaron Householter > wrote:

> Well, let's see, being a musician/studio owner, I work on weekend too.
> But after a weekends worth of sessions, I'll start my Monday at the
> real estate office(the perfect job for a musician) and sell some
> houses to the masses.

So you generate the stuff for which Rob brokers mortgages. Now we're
getting somewhere. 4.6973 degress o separation.

--
ha

[Steve Holt]

"LeBaron & Alrich" > wrote in message
.. .
> Steve King > wrote:
>
> > I recall recording a series of Blues performers
> > back in the 70s who were not professionals... who played with family and
> > friends and at church and were wonderful. What I should have said is
that I
> > have never run across anyone who talks about "how they just play for the
> > music and all those famous and not so famous musicians who do it for the
> > money are just sell-outs" who didn't themselves just suck. I have found
> > that talented musicians tend to admire other talented musicians no
matter
> > what their style of music or where they play. Its the judgemental
"above it
> > all" types that yank my chain. Of course, I'm being judgemental, too.
But,
> > that is different. Right? LOL
>
> Hey, I'm with you. The bigger the mouth, the smaller the player,
> generally. I do recall Eddie Harr8is beinga little over the top about
> how great he was, but he did then stand up and play. Personally, I
> thought Phil Woods kicked his butt.
>
> --
> ha


I remember McCoy Tyner and Sonny Fortune coming to a gig of mine. The grand
piano extended off the stage and literally over a sofa, where they sat down
as I began the set. They never spoke. They listened quietly, while our
quartet played. It was intimidating to say the least, but it was also
impressive how unassuming they were.

Sonny Fortune sat in later.

--
Steve Holt
INNER MUSIC
Music Creation & Production
http://www.inner-music.com
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/steveholt

[Aaron Householter]

Ya see, you try to be nice and the dip****s attack. I love the way I
never insulted anyone in this chat group personally. (except Dave
who's an obvious ****, Oh yeah, I wonder how the agents in your area
would love to have your quotes on your feelings for them emailed to
their offices? Better find a new job "musician/Artist") I simply said
I would not take a gig from Wal-Mart, and the intelligent responses I
get from you few are attempts to attack me personally. You all know as
well as I do, the stupid often attack people not the issues. As for me
making money in Real Estate, I've never ****ed one person or talked
them into something they didn't want. I've never sold a house (knock
on wood) that turned out bad for a customer. I often choose my
customers (yes choose) I do not work with people I think will be a
problem for me or a hassle.(although I've had people that it took a
year to find a house,but I enjoy it if the yare good people) Yes, I'm
also succesful enough to do that in Real Estate. Money is not my
measure of success, I like it, I need it and I earn it. I don't need a
new SUV that gets 5 miles to the gallon and cost $40,000 hell my house
only cost $40,000 when I bought it. I drive a BMW 535i...from 1991.
But I live this way because I do what I want to do, because I love the
freedom of choice. I don't have an oppressive mortgage I don't have a
car payment. ( I do buy **** loads of gear though and I am addicted to
that) OK, that's enough defending myself to the "greats" in this room.
I'll say this last time for those in the cheap seats. Do what you
want, my side of this is that I won't take those kinds of jobs no
matter what the pay. As for wanting to see my studio Guido, come by
anytime you still have friends in KC I would guess, come by and we'll
record your Wal-Mart anthem. If you really want pics, audio etc, email
me and I'll snap some shots for you and upload some music, I won't
even pick the best, I'll just give you what is being recorded this
past week or so from about 4 artist/groups we're working with right
now. Now everybody send me a list of your real jobs and let's all pick
them apart, because we're obviously getting very bored in here.
Aaron Householter
studio1117

[LeBaron & Alrich]

Rob Adelman > wrote:

> Oh, I should tell you the story of my jerk-off agent who helped me buy
> the current house I am in, or the first agent who tried to sell my
> Boulder house (and cost me about 80 grand in the process). Actually I
> have all kinds of horror stories of agents, I am trying to remember any
> good stories, hmm, coming up blank...

Well, read Dave Martin's truly wonderful pro muso post again slowly and
decide if he might have some "interesting" stories to tell about
_musicians_.

Remember that the people with whom you work are a reflection of
yourself, birdies flocking together and all. Can we flip the coin and
get some good mortagent stories from the real estate peoples? Likely.

--
ha

[LeBaron & Alrich]

Aaron Householter > wrote:

> except Dave
> who's an obvious ****, Oh yeah, I wonder how the agents in your area
> would love to have your quotes on your feelings for them emailed to
> their offices? Better find a new job "musician/Artist"

Hunh? Rob works with agents; Dave is an excellent musician, excellent
recordist with an outstanding new facility growing in the face of the
so-called bedroom studio revolution that is supposed to eliminate what
he does. But it ain't working like that because he does what he does so
well that enough folks prefer having him do it for them than pretending
they do it as well in their bedroom on weekends.

--
ha

[JWelsh3374]

After composing a long response I decided to simply put you in my killfile.
Buh-bye.








searching for peace, love and quality footwear
guido

http://www.guidotoons.com
http://www.theloniousmoog.com
http://www.luckymanclark.com

[NW]

I don't like Walmart, so I don't go. But if people here don't feel Walmart
should be supported, but Guido should be, how is it that you can support
someone who is part of the corporate structure that causes the issues you
disagree with?

I'm serious here, and not trying to put down anyone. But I do have a hard
time with saying it is okay to play gigs for an employer, but the employer
is not. To me that is an erosion of principles...or perhaps as Dave Martin
pointed out, musicians aren't allowed the luxury of principles, since
survival is first and foremost. Pretty Kubler-Ross to me.

Do we all just do the PC thing and say 'We agree to disagree'?

LeBaron & Alrich wrote:

> Aaron Householter > wrote:
>
> > Well, let's see, being a musician/studio owner, I work on weekend too.
> > But after a weekends worth of sessions, I'll start my Monday at the
> > real estate office(the perfect job for a musician) and sell some
> > houses to the masses.
>
> So you generate the stuff for which Rob brokers mortgages. Now we're
> getting somewhere. 4.6973 degress o separation.

--
Cheers,
Nate West
"Assiduus usus uni rei deditus et ingenium et artem saepe vincit."

[EggHd]

<< I don't like Walmart, so I don't go. >>

Your choice.

<< But if people here don't feel Walmart
should be supported, but Guido should be, how is it that you can support
someone who is part of the corporate structure that causes the issues you
disagree with? >>

Is Guido part of Walmart's corp structure or is he an indie contractor that
performs music at their employee only conventions?

Keep in mind that the CDs in Walmart are put there through a couple of
companies called Handleman and Anderson. Many of the big and not so big acts
play those convention in trade for product placement and advertising thru
Walmart> Should we not buy any music from acts that Walmart carries in their
stores because of this?





---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

[JWelsh3374]

<< Yes...if you are working for them you are working for them. >>

I see. Another glass house owner. Cool.

<, In this case substitute
someone of ill repute ( John Gotti maybe?)
and working for his company...does it cause any problems for you?>>

Lol. Your logic is a bit flawed. Now you're saying Wal-Mart is as dangerous as
Gotti? Gimme a break...you watch too much television.

<< Remember when
Sheryl Crow (I think) pulled her records over the gun issue? BFD. In the end,
she
got publicity, they got her off the shelf, and everyone moved on. >>

Bull****. She realized she would lose sales and called them and they all kissed
and made up. Wal-Mart gladly accepted her product back in their stores. THEN
everyone moved on. And it absolutely WAS a BFD to her, her label and her fans.
You might wanna follow up your sources before you spew.

<< If I had a CD I wanted to move a million or so of, I would want it in a
Walmart I guess, since
they have such a high traffic count. But then again...where does one draw the
line? >>

Draw WHAT line, sport? What IS yer point? You 'guess' that you'd wanna sell
some CD's?

It is easy to hate something you have no clue about, ain't it?








searching for peace, love and quality footwear
guido

http://www.guidotoons.com
http://www.theloniousmoog.com
http://www.luckymanclark.com

[NW]

JWelsh3374 wrote:

> I see. Another glass house owner. Cool.

Hardly Mr Guido. I do work for Dreamworks, Disney, Microsoft and other large
corporations just like Walmart. I am asking for insight, not whether you are or are
not doing the right thing .
I want to know if there is any line... really...

> Lol. Your logic is a bit flawed. Now you're saying Wal-Mart is as dangerous as
> Gotti? Gimme a break...you watch too much television.

No television..but a reach wasn't it?<G> But see above for what I am asking about.

> Bull****. She realized she would lose sales and called them and they all kissed
> and made up. Wal-Mart gladly accepted her product back in their stores. THEN
> everyone moved on. And it absolutely WAS a BFD to her, her label and her fans.
> You might wanna follow up your sources before you spew.

Well then never mind, I didn't read up, because I didn't care. I just remembered
that she tried to make some sort of stand on the gun thing. Do you work with her
that you would know what it meant to her? I don't mean that sarcastically at
all...since you do seem to work with some great people.

> Draw WHAT line, sport? What IS yer point? You 'guess' that you'd wanna sell
> some CD's?

Huh? My point is where do you stand on your principals and what principals can you
really have when dealing in commerce? I thought I made that clear enough.

> It is easy to hate something you have no clue about, ain't it?

What is it that you think I have no clue about? Selling music? And where did I
indicate I hated anything...I'm looking for some insight about this ( and footwear
apparently) and was asking.
Maybe you are mistaking me for someone angry at you??

--
Cheers,
Nate West
"Assiduus usus uni rei deditus et ingenium et artem saepe vincit."

[NW]

Well with the degree of hostility exhibited, certainly your life seems to be
enriched when you reply doesn't it....

If there are no commerce type principles in the music business then just say so.
If you never question what you do fine...I just wanted the general opinion about
it. My intention wasn't to *pontificate* either, sorry if you felt that way
about it.

"Roger W. Norman" wrote:

> And if you aren't Aaron, who the **** are you that makes their lives so much
> better by pontification upon these newsgroup walls?
>
> ----

Cheers,
Nate West
"Assiduus usus uni rei deditus et ingenium et artem saepe vincit."

[JWelsh3374]

<< Hardly Mr Guido. I do work for Dreamworks, Disney, Microsoft and other
large
corporations just like Walmart. I am asking for insight, not whether you are or
are
not doing the right thing .
I want to know if there is any line... really. >>


What exactly makes those companies different from Wal-Mart? What about Wal-Mart
could possibly preclude me from working for them? That they make a ton of
money?

<< Well then never mind, I didn't read up, because I didn't care. I just
remembered
that she tried to make some sort of stand on the gun thing. Do you work with
her
that you would know what it meant to her? I don't mean that sarcastically at
all...since you do seem to work with some great people. >>

You could care less yet you judge me for working for them?

And if you knew ANYTHING about her history you would know that she is a shrewd
businessperson and the lyric in question was a pose rlyric anyway. She screwed
up...and made it right.

<< Huh? My point is where do you stand on your principals and what principals
can you
really have when dealing in commerce? I thought I made that clear enough. >>

My principals involve working in my chosen field. For great money. It's the
American way.

It is either this or flipping burgers....what would you do?





searching for peace, love and quality footwear
guido

http://www.guidotoons.com
http://www.theloniousmoog.com
http://www.luckymanclark.com

[Rob Adelman]

LeBaron & Alrich wrote:

> Remember that the people with whom you work are a reflection of
> yourself, birdies flocking together and all.

Well, I don't really work *with* the agents. I have yet for one to bring
ME a deal, lots of talk though. I just have to *deal* with them when one
of MY clients is buying or selling. And 90% of my clients are referral
or repeat. I guess they like me. And they tell me how THEY feel about
the real estate agents. Pretty much agrees with my experiences. I have
on several occasions brought a client to a real estate agent I was
trying to get a relationship with, only to have them steer my client to
their "mortgage guy". Lot of class, huh?

Anyway, I digress. Aaron has some valid opinions about Wal-Mart. They
are vultures. I have some stories about them too. Don't bring any new
products to them to distribute, they will try to steal the product.
Happened to my dad and he sued Wal-Mart and WON.

But, that is still irrelevant to Guido's gig. Wal-Mart, Home Depot,
Guitar Center, its all the same ****. But Wal-Mart has given him a
steady job that allows him to compose and perform music for people, and
they pay him to do this. I think any real musician would LOVE to have
this kind of job to help pay the bills while working on that next big
thing. It beats hands down what many of us are doing while waiting for
"something big".

[NW]

JWelsh3374 wrote:

> What exactly makes those companies different from Wal-Mart?

None of these are different than the other. That is why I sited them.

> What about Wal-Mart
> could possibly preclude me from working for them? That they make a ton of
> money?

If you had any compunction in regards to their hiring practices ( Part Time, No
Beni's,Lower Pay Scale). I myself sometimes question whether I should work for
companies like that. However as you have stated for yourself, and as it is for me,
it is a rather lucrative paycheck. I then asked whether this yin/yang piece ever
plays a role in your principles. Apparently not. For the record I don't care if you
make a Gajillion Dollars ( way more than a billion billion dollars), I wanted some
insight...I got it.

> You could care less yet you judge me for working for them?

This was/is a discussion, not judgmental on my part. You obviously have worked it
out for yourself. I was asking for a deeper insight to it, but as you have said
you are 100% fine with it. End of discussion!

> And if you knew ANYTHING about her history you would know that she is a shrewd
> businessperson and the lyric in question was a pose rlyric anyway. She screwed
> up...and made it right.

....you mean Sheryl...no I know nothing about her beyond what little I read in the
general press. I have no insight to her at all.

> It is either this or flipping burgers....what would you do?

Dig Graves...it is more my style, the clients don't talk back.
--
Cheers,
Nate West
"Assiduus usus uni rei deditus et ingenium et artem saepe vincit."

[Roger W. Norman]

And I, rather than dwell upon my "amatuer" statement, have many things that
float my boat. None of whice include mass assassination of someone else's
character.

One need only look at Aaron's statements to make their own appraisials. I
simply don't agree with them, nor the aspersions that he has cast.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"NW" > wrote in message ...
> Well with the degree of hostility exhibited, certainly your life seems to
be
> enriched when you reply doesn't it....
>
> If there are no commerce type principles in the music business then just
say so.
> If you never question what you do fine...I just wanted the general opinion
about
> it. My intention wasn't to *pontificate* either, sorry if you felt that
way
> about it.
>
> "Roger W. Norman" wrote:
>
> > And if you aren't Aaron, who the **** are you that makes their lives so
much
> > better by pontification upon these newsgroup walls?
> >
> > ----
>
> Cheers,
> Nate West
> "Assiduus usus uni rei deditus et ingenium et artem saepe vincit."
>
>

[JWelsh3374]

<< If you had any compunction in regards to their hiring practices ( Part Time,
No
Beni's,Lower Pay Scale). I myself sometimes question whether I should work for
companies like that. >>


My wife is a 20 yer associate and district manager for the company. If you were
to hear the stories she tells me about hiring people to work you would
understand why WM, or any company for that matter, makes the new hirees 'earn'
their bennies. McDonald's, Wendys, Starbucks, Target and others do the same
things. WM gets hammered the most and we hear about it more because they are
huge.

<< However as you have stated for yourself, and as it is for me,
it is a rather lucrative paycheck. I then asked whether this yin/yang piece
ever
plays a role in your principles. Apparently not. >>

Don't try and judge me or my politics or my gig when you don't know me from
Adam. And definitely don't press my buttons on this subject in a public forum.

<< ...you mean Sheryl...no I know nothing about her beyond what little I read
in the
general press. I have no insight to her at all. >>

So then your point regarding her is moot, right?

<< Dig Graves...it is more my style, the clients don't talk back. >>

No money and no glory. Sounds good. Where can I sign up?





searching for peace, love and quality footwear
guido

http://www.guidotoons.com
http://www.theloniousmoog.com
http://www.luckymanclark.com

[NW]

JWelsh3374 wrote:

> My wife is a 20 yer associate and district manager for the company. If you were
> to hear the stories she tells me about hiring people to work you would
> understand why WM, or any company for that matter, makes the new hirees 'earn'
> their bennies.

Probably because she gets hamstrung, where you can't fire someone unless you catch
them with a knife in another employee, while they say I'm killing them, and person
dying is agreeing and you have five impartial witness's ( no managers) who are
peers to the associate and a signed confession and a agreement that said employee
was in no way discriminated against due to the murdering of another associate.

> Don't try and judge me or my politics or my gig when you don't know me from
> Adam. And definitely don't press my buttons on this subject in a public forum.

First up I'm not judging you...and if I'm pressing your button's ..sorry not my
intention at all. Second...the public forum is just that...it is public. All
opinions are subject to discussion...except I understand you saying you are not
stating your politics here so don't discuss them. Fine.

> << Dig Graves...it is more my style, the clients don't talk back. >>
>
> No money and no glory. Sounds good. Where can I sign up?

There's glory in flipping hamburgers? Jeeze...Have I missed out...dammit!
--
Cheers,
Nate West
"Assiduus usus uni rei deditus et ingenium et artem saepe vincit."

[JWelsh3374]

<< It's always a travesty when one sells out principles in order to make money
in the music business.
BTW Guido... give me a call if you need a keyboard player. >>


WHORE!!!!


:)



searching for peace, love and quality footwear
guido

http://www.guidotoons.com
http://www.theloniousmoog.com
http://www.luckymanclark.com

[Dave Martin]

"NW" > wrote in message ...

> I'm serious here, and not trying to put down anyone. But I do have a hard
> time with saying it is okay to play gigs for an employer, but the employer
> is not. To me that is an erosion of principles...or perhaps as Dave Martin
> pointed out, musicians aren't allowed the luxury of principles, since
> survival is first and foremost. Pretty Kubler-Ross to me.
>

Three quick points here, if I may be so bold...

First, Guido never said that he didn't like the way that Wal-Mart does
business; that came from others who don't like the way that Wal-Mart does
business.
Second, I played a riverboat casino last weekend. I don't care to gamble
(and suspect that casinos, like lotteries, are an indirect stupidity tax),
but I told the singer I'd take the gig. And I played it to the best of my
ability. If you don't like gambling, don't gamble. But don't bitch at me for
playing at a casino; not only does I have little or nothing to do with
gambling, but bitching at ME won't change anything. Bitch at Harrah's. If
you don't like the way that Wal-Mart does business, don't bitch at Guido -
bitch at Wal-Mart.
Third, I never said (or even meant to imply) that I have no principles (I
have a bunch of them - Ethics and Morals, too. I got them all at the Labor
Day Sale at Wal-Mart). I simply said that as a professional musician, I play
when and where I'm paid to play. If I take a gig, I show up on time and do
the best job that I capable of doing.

--
Dave Martin
Java Jive Studio
Nashville, TN
www.javajivestudio.com

[JWelsh3374]

I should like to point out that even though Dave lives near me, we have never
met. Nor am I compensating him in any way to front for me.

I do owe him a tall one now, however! Thanks bro! I'm gonna have to come over
and vice versa.... we can have a whore fest!

I'll play drums!




searching for peace, love and quality footwear
guido

http://www.guidotoons.com
http://www.theloniousmoog.com
http://www.luckymanclark.com

[NW]

Dave Martin wrote:

> First, Guido never said that he didn't like the way that Wal-Mart does
> business; that came from others who don't like the way that Wal-Mart does
> business.

Yes..that has been made abundantly clear. Plus he said he has a
connection...<smile>

> If you don't like the way that Wal-Mart does business, don't bitch at Guido -
>
> bitch at Wal-Mart.

I wasn't trying to implicate Guido or You for that matter in anything. I wanted
a perspective on
how people feel. As I said...I got it in spades.

> Third, I never said (or even meant to imply) that I have no principles (I
> have a bunch of them - Ethics and Morals, too. I got them all at the Labor
> Day Sale at Wal-Mart). I simply said that as a professional musician, I play
> when and where I'm paid to play. If I take a gig, I show up on time and do
> the best job that I capable of doing.

I believe you said : "Most musicians ARE whores. The only real
difference between me and an LA street hooker is that there may be some THEY
won't do for money. I don't have that luxury."

What I meant was what you said. Of course you get points because of the
lucidity of your post far out weighed any moral negligence on your part in
reporting out what your gig life is like. LOL!


--
Cheers,
Nate West
"Assiduus usus uni rei deditus et ingenium et artem saepe vincit."

[LeBaron & Alrich]

NW > wrote:

> I don't like Walmart, so I don't go. But if people here don't feel Walmart
> should be supported, but Guido should be, how is it that you can support
> someone who is part of the corporate structure that causes the issues you
> disagree with?

I buy fuel for my vehicles. I wish I didn't use my vehicles so much. But
at present I have little alternative, given the state of contemporary
transit in the US and my mildly far flung activities. So as a purchaser
of those fuels I am also "part of the corporate structure that causes
the issues (I/you) disagree with", providing my money to fuel some of
the very issues with which I disagree. I'll abandon this silliness
either when I can get where I'm going and back without needing my
vehicle or when I can figure out how to support myself without
traveling, or when I die, whichever comes first.

> I'm serious here, and not trying to put down anyone.

Accepted.

> But I do have a hard
> time with saying it is okay to play gigs for an employer, but the employer
> is not.

I can place it as a matter of degrees. If Guido was singing for Hitler
<g> I'd draw the line and get out the FT2K3+. But this is nowhere near
such a degree of complicity in heinous crimes, and since somebody is
going to take that job, it might as well be Guido. At least there'll be
some humor in his schtick, and that's helpful.

> To me that is an erosion of principles...or perhaps as Dave Martin
> pointed out, musicians aren't allowed the luxury of principles, since
> survival is first and foremost.

Every person may make such choices. One person's erosion of principles
is another's living, but this isn't like being a hit person who pays the
bills by selling murders. I vote as you do, not leaving money at WM. If
they go out of business I hope Guido has his ducks either in line or
gutted, picked and frozen.

I have turned down gigs for reasons of personal philosphy. Somebody else
played those. So it goes.

> Pretty Kubler-Ross to me.

I'll have to go look it up. (I take it that's not a brand name for
esoteric chocolate.)

> Do we all just do the PC thing and say 'We agree to disagree'?

It's interesting discussion, and maybe more a sharing of viewpoints than
an achievement of consensus.

--
ha

[Harvey Gerst]

(Aaron Householter) wrote:

>"Well Dave I had a nice long letter typed out to you about ****ing
>yourself and what an idiot you are and how It must be great to be a
>"real musician" and dressing up for gigs as a former president etc and
>having a musical career akin to being a pinball in the crappiest of
>bands but I deleted it on accident and besides you wouldn't have time
>to read it as you'ld probably be busy trying to squeeze into a carrot
>costume to go perform as a real "artist" at a Grand Opening of a
>Grocery store. (funny I always wondered where those **** bands came
>from that did those gigs and what the players must be like, now I know
>what truly,truly talented dip ****s they must be) **** Off
>Aaron Householter

My band once got hired to do a Grand Opening of a White Front store. The chain
closed shortly after that. I've always thought there was a connection.

Harvey Gerst
Indian Trail Recording Studio
http://www.ITRstudio.com/

[Aaron Householter]

"ryanm" > wrote in message >...
> "Aaron Householter" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Along with my thinking that wal-mart is all that is bad about a free
> > economy in this country, this sounds a bit like a Hitler Youth
> > Meeting. The mindless mass of Wal-Mart execs getting excited as if
> > this bull**** company doesn't sell scores of low priced **** to the
> > lemmings. Let's not forget that these assholes are the same ones who
> > "modify" the Cd's they sell in their stores.
> > Hey Guido, call me, I have some new lyrics for your song, let's work
> > on these and make it real. Here's a little excerpt " Hey, hey we're
> > the wal-marts people say we cater to white trash, hey hey we're the
> > wal-marts we help make America a ****ty, non caring, no quality, send
> > your jobs overseas while making ads that act like we care about saving
> > a small rural town in the midwest, disposable bull**** gang." Yeah,
> > Yeah, Yeah (Paul M. helped with the last bit)
> >
> Get back to us when you've grown up.
>
> ryanm

You're a little late to the party ****-chop.
Aaron Householter
studio1117

[LLLindblad]

>Now everybody send me a list of your real jobs and let's all pick
>them apart,

Electrician for the mouse in kissimmee, florida.......eat me.

laters
tuna

[Vladan]

On Sun, 7 Sep 2003 20:47:04 -0500, "Dave Martin"
> wrote:

>Second, I played a riverboat casino last weekend. I don't care to gamble
>(and suspect that casinos, like lotteries, are an indirect stupidity tax),
>but I told the singer I'd take the gig.

Let's see.

I do gamble. Video Poker, mostly. I'm slightly ahead, over the years.
I see it as a no/ small interest bankig deposit and nice way for
spending time on cheap. What I mean, you do relatively small, more or
less fixed ammounts. Sometimes you win, sometimes (little bit more)
you lose. Never too much. From time to time you hit big, recoup +
litle bit more, than you buy something for all the money you have in
the pocket, instead of spending it on beer and burgers over time
(ther's always enough for a beer anyway) and start all over again.

I'd probably play for Wall Mart. It's not working for them in their
line of business, therefore, I'm depriving them of their money, not
earning money for them.

I'd never play for political party. It'd be working in their line of
business, ie. helping them get more votes.

Chumba Wamba, a very interesting band ("I get knocked down, but I get
up again, you'll never gonna drink me down", you know?), rather active
in antiglobalization movement, was asked a song to be used for a
(beer?) commercial. They consulted their comarades and decided to go
for it, than use that very money to fight back.

I have a day job. A cargo agency. My father, I, few other people.

Vladan
www.geocities.com/vla_dan_l
www.mp3.com/lesly , www.mp3.com/shook , www.mp3.com/lesly2
www.kunsttick.com/artists/vuskovic/indexdat.htm

[Doc West]

LeBaron & Alrich > wrote:

> I can place it as a matter of degrees. If Guido was singing for Hitler
> <g> I'd draw the line and get out the FT2K3+. But this is nowhere near
> such a degree of complicity in heinous crimes, and since somebody is
> going to take that job, it might as well be Guido. At least there'll be
> some humor in his schtick, and that's helpful.

Back in the '90s, I once subbed at a Republican rally (Lee A****er sat
in playing frat-boy blues harp).
For years, I had a steady blues gig at a hookers and dealers bar in SF.
IMHO, the whores,pimps,& dopefiends had better taste and worked harder,
but the R's paid better. Didn't tip worth a damn, though.

Mea Culpa. I'm personally responsible for Gingrich, Enron, and crime in
the pre-yuppie Mission district. But I'm paying for my sins. Since
moving to Nashville, this music whore is becoming a music nympho, giving
it away for tips. and one of my best friends is a realtor.

[Rob Adelman]

JWelsh3374 wrote:
> << You're a little late to the party ****-chop. >>
>
>
> Not a 'people person' are ya, Aaron?

But his job is hanging out with folks showing em houses. Hmmm

[Jedd Haas]

I am real curious about the last few gigs that Aaron did deign to play and
how much they paid.

--
Jedd Haas - Artist
http://www.gallerytungsten.com
http://www.antijazz.com
http://www.epsno.com

[EggHd]

<< Not a 'people person' are ya, Aaron? >>

If nothing else, he has brought ****-chop to my vocabulary.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

[Dave Martin]

"EggHd" > wrote in message
...
> << Not a 'people person' are ya, Aaron? >>
>
> If nothing else, he has brought ****-chop to my vocabulary.
>
It DOES have a certain flair, doesn't it?

--
Dave Martin
Java Jive Studio
Nashville, TN
www.javajivestudio.com

[Aaron Householter]

(JWelsh3374) wrote in message >...
> << You're a little late to the party ****-chop. >>
>
>
> Not a 'people person' are ya, Aaron?
>
>
> searching for peace, love and quality footwear
> guido
>
> http://www.guidotoons.com
> http://www.theloniousmoog.com
> http://www.luckymanclark.com

Hey, I thought we weren't on speaking terms sweetness?

Aaron Householter
studio1117

[Rob Adelman]

Dave Martin wrote:
> "EggHd" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>><< Not a 'people person' are ya, Aaron? >>
>>
>>If nothing else, he has brought ****-chop to my vocabulary.
>>
>
> It DOES have a certain flair, doesn't it?

Or it may have come from a poorly translated Chinese menu..

[Bill Thompson]

EggHd wrote:
> Let's see here.... Guido records and releases Lucky Man Clark and most everyone
> gives it a resounding thumbs up. Good art, people respond well.
>
> Guido comes to the community of RAP and asks about a bass player and has
> specific requirements and some people get very negative. Commerce
>
> Guido gets on the FRONT PAGE of the Wall Street Journal with a flatering story
> and some poeple get very negative. Again mostly about commerce.
>
> What is it that some people have against someone else's success?

Well said!

I do not, at the moment make my living making music... I have in the
past, and I might again in the future, but right now supporting my
family in a manner at least bordering on the one we'd like to become
acustomed to is my priority, and the industry has changed so much over
the last 10 years that I can't do that in music at present.

However, I applaud anyone who can find a way to make a good living in
this field!!! It isn't easy, and it isn't all glamour, and anyone who
succeeds has my deepest respect, whether it is as a headline act or
doing jingles or as the house band for anyone.

It's all about trade-offs!!

I don't think anyone starts out thinking gee... I'd like to be the house
band for Wal-Mart... and someone younger and less experienced might even
scoff at the offer... their loss.

I made a trade-off... I work in a field totally unrelated to audio and
that is a source of a little stress and frustration. I still do as much
with music and audio as I can in my free time, so it doesn't suck
completely, but sometimes I wonder....

And if I could land a gig that would help pay the bills I wouldn't
apologize for it, and I think it's pretty lame that some folks here
think Guido owes anyone an apology.

(please excuse the censorship, I don't like to use other folks names
without their permission)

When I was younger, and much more foolish, I used to be a co-sysop
(remember that term???) on the audio forum on PAN. One of my cohorts was
this very well known engineer. He really knew a lot, and since the web
didn't really exist in all its glory yet I did some digging and found
out this guy had quite a track record.

One day, in my stupidity, I asked him why he worked for this one
particular pop artist who was not, at least in my less than humble
opinion, doing particularly good work.

Without completely crushing me the engineer described his "home" studio,
and then asked me to describe mine.

I got the message. Doing a gig that might not have been on the top of
your wishlist might just pay for the gig that was.

What I really respected about the engineer was the passion he applied to
this project I didn't think much of... he treated it as if it was the
most important project of his career, which is probably why his career
was going so well.

So, Guido, I say HUGE congrats... my name hasn't shown up in the WSJ or
any other publication, and I am not making my living purely in music and
audio, and I haven't made a record on a par with either Lucky Man Clark
or Thelonius Moog. I'd say you're doing alright!!!

Bill

[Aaron Householter]

(Jedd Haas) wrote in message >...
> I am real curious about the last few gigs that Aaron did deign to play and
> how much they paid.

Why don't you just ask then?
I don't make much. My last 3 gigs (1 from each job) Live music $175
for an evening of playing in a bar. Last session 2.5 hours (recording
engineer) $125
and the last house I sold last weekend will make me about $2700. Like
I said, not a lot. But It's enough for me. Enough to say no to the
gigs I don't want. BTW FWIW, my real estate customers like my no BS
attitude. I don't dress up and kiss ass. I usually wear wayyyyyy
casual clothes. My customers have told me they prefer me out of the
Armani, not in it. But then again so do the women in my life. Really
folks enough trying to question me, You won't win, you'll only ****
yourself off. I really do live like this. Once again for the record, I
have never said Mr.Guido Toledo is a piece of **** or anything close
to it. In fact he's a hansom man that people love and is succesful (at
least that's what the voice recording in his car tells him when he
opens the door) Really , no BS I could give 2 shakes about the man,
only that he's happy doing what he's doing and not making the world a
worse place to live. I, once again, am only saying I wouln't have
taken the gig for any price.
Aaron Householter
studio1117

[Aaron Householter]

(EggHd) wrote in message >...
> << I prefer '****stick' myself. >>
>
> I like that as well and better, but I had never heard ****-chop until this
> morning.
>
>
>
>
>Some like sticks, some like chops I use to like the sticks, but too
many people were "doing it" and my sense of a fragile need to be at
least somewhat original has caused me to go with the chops just to "be
different" I do like them with red beans and honey I must admit.
Aaron Householter
studio1117

[JWelsh3374]

<< Once again for the record, I
have never said Mr.Guido Toledo is a piece of **** or anything close
to it. In fact he's a hansom man that people love and is succesful (at
least that's what the voice recording in his car tells him when he
opens the door) >>

Damn! My car is supposed to TALK to me? I'll have to get on Toyota about
that... BTW NOBODY has called me Guido 'Toledo' for years....where are you?

<< I, once again, am only saying I wouln't have
taken the gig for any price.
Aaron Householter >>

We know. And I'd bet you a dollar a gig like this will never be offered up tp
you...so you won't have to worry about that!


:)
PEACE!



searching for peace, love and quality footwear
guido

http://www.guidotoons.com
http://www.theloniousmoog.com
http://www.luckymanclark.com

[Aaron Householter]

Oh yeah Guido I forgot to mention, you can thank me for the fame this
has given you later. Almost 100 posts. 92 and counting. Almost as many
as people who actually read the front page of the Wall Street Journal.
Aaron Householter
studio1117

[JWelsh3374]

<< Oh yeah Guido I forgot to mention, you can thank me for the fame this
has given you later. >>

The only thing you have provided me with is a couple of laughs at your expense.


<< Almost 100 posts. 92 and counting. Almost as many as people who actually
read the front page of the Wall Street Journal. >>

You take care of yerself, Brainiac.





searching for peace, love and quality footwear
guido

http://www.guidotoons.com
http://www.theloniousmoog.com
http://www.luckymanclark.com

[Charles Thomas]

In article >,
(JWelsh3374) wrote:

> We know. And I'd bet you a dollar a gig like this will never be offered up tp
> you...so you won't have to worry about that!


Gosh. I'm getting the darndest sense of deja-vu.

I probably should have read this thread from the beginning.

CT

[Charles Thomas]

In article >,
"Dave Martin" > wrote:

Dave makes a good post here defending himself and his line of reasoning.

But this whole thread's tone is a little childish in my opinion.

You basically have two camps here:

There are those who feel like certain types of gigs are "whoring
yourself out", demeaning, "selling out", or however you want to look at
it.

Then there are those who feel like it's okay to do ANY gig as long as
they make money because at least they're making money doing music (i.e.
something they love), which beats the **** out of flipping burgers or
digging ditches to pay the bills.

When I was younger I was definitely in the former camp. I'm slowly
moving toward the latter as I get older.

There's no right or wrong here, so I wish both sides would give up the
stupid posturing and insults and just understand it's a matter of
opinion about whether or not you'd play what you consider crappy music
at crappy venues to make money doing something you love to do.

It's each individual's choice.

If someone can live with themselves getting paid a metric butt-load of
money a night to sing Jimmy Buffet tunes poolside at a high-priced
resort, more power to them. Some people couldn't live with themselves,
and that's okay too.

It's a very real scenario I have to contemplate even as we speak.


> so I fairly
> ostentatiously quit drinking

See that's just crazy talk! You're missing out on the #2 benefit of
being a musician!

CT

[Charles Thomas]

In article >,
Artie Turner > wrote:

> Some will argue that capturing any "emotion" as a 3:42 pop song and
> selling it on a shiny piece of plastic effectively trivializes that
> emotion beyond recall.

Others would argue that it's all that really matters in this world.

CT

[Hal Laurent]

"Charles Thomas" > wrote in
message ...

> I probably should have read this thread from the beginning.

Not if you value your time.

Hal Laurent
Baltimore

[Charles Thomas]

In article >,
(EggHd) wrote:

> Is Guido part of Walmart's corp structure or is he an indie contractor that
> performs music at their employee only conventions?

Maybe we should look at it like he's actually sucking away some of their
profits and this weakening (ever so slightly) the corporate giant while
benefiting himself at the same time?

Maybe it's really a win-win situation.

CT

[Charles Thomas]

In article >,
(JWelsh3374) wrote:

> the [Sheryl Crow] lyric in question was a poser lyric anyway.

How so? She wrote something about someone getting shot with a gun he
bought at Wal-Mart. She wrote it after being struck by the oddity of
the fact that you could buy guns at Wal-Mart right next to music CDs,
diapers and Doritos. She found it odd and put it in a song.

How is that being a poser? Seems honest to me. Doubly so because she
probably at least suspected that Wal-Mart would be ****ed off.

>She screwed up...

How so?

I'm not sure I believe that writing what strikes you as an artist and
being honest is screwing up. And I definitely don't believe that one
should censor everything they write 'cause it might **** someone off.

Maybe you consider it "screwing up" to write a song that amounts to
biting the hand that feeds you, but if that's what someone really felt
they ought to do artistically I wouldn't hold it against them.

But perhaps we just disagree on that point.

Certainly seems relevant to the thread, tho'.

Again with these moral lines....


CT

[EggHd]

<< If someone can live with themselves getting paid a metric butt-load of
money a night to sing Jimmy Buffet tunes poolside at a high-priced
resort, more power to them. >>

Isn't this the same with any job you take in or out of the music biz?

If you can deal with selling houses, go do it. If you can deal with
programming a pop radio station, go do it. If you can deal with being a
personal injury attorney go do it.




---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

[JWelsh3374]

<<
How so? She wrote something about someone getting shot with a gun he
bought at Wal-Mart. >>


No...she wrote it and just threw WM in the line at random. She apologized and
changed the line to 'at the local discount store' and everyone was happy.

<< How is that being a poser? >>

Number one by throwing out a lyric line solely to stir things up and, number
two...for apologizing. She chose to play in their sandbox in the end.

<< How so? I'm not sure I believe that writing what strikes you as an artist
and
being honest is screwing up. >>

See above response.

<< Maybe you consider it "screwing up" to write a song that amounts to
biting the hand that feeds you, but if that's what someone really felt
they ought to do artistically I wouldn't hold it against them. >>

I agree but by changing the line she obviously didn't feel THAT strongly about
it.

I understand people feeling stringly about issues. I understand free speech. I
also understand commerce.

And I also will keep this gig.



searching for peace, love and quality footwear
guido

http://www.guidotoons.com
http://www.theloniousmoog.com
http://www.luckymanclark.com

[LeBaron & Alrich]

LLLindblad > wrote:

> eat me.

> laters
> tuna

You got celery and mayo? I got toast and lettuce.

--
ha

[LeBaron & Alrich]

Doc West > wrote:

> Since
> moving to Nashville, this music whore is becoming a music nympho, giving
> it away for tips. and one of my best friends is a realtor.

You're doomed, Doc. <g>

--
ha

[LeBaron & Alrich]

JWelsh3374 > wrote:

> << You're a little late to the party ****-chop. >>

> Not a 'people person' are ya, Aaron?

It's not his line; it's Lorena Bobbitt's line.

--
ha

[LeBaron & Alrich]

EggHd > wrote:

> << Not a 'people person' are ya, Aaron? >>

> If nothing else, he has brought ****-chop to my vocabulary.

Just another great band name, eh?

--
ha

[NeilH011]

>Oh yeah Guido I forgot to mention, you can thank me for the fame this
>has given you later. Almost 100 posts. 92 and counting. Almost as many
>as people who actually read the front page of the Wall Street Journal.

LOL! Yes, the Wall Street Journal... that tiny little-known cult publication.

NeilH

[NeilH011]

>> If nothing else, he has brought ****-chop to my vocabulary.
>
>Just another great band name, eh?

Perhaps they could open for BitchSlap (with special guests: Cats' Anus)

NeilH

[Steve Holt]

"Charles Thomas" nailed it by saying:

> It's each individual's choice.<

That is the most important point of this whole thread. If we remembered this
maxim a little more in everything we did, the world would be a good place to
live. Or at least to have shore leave.


Steve Holt
INNER MUSIC
Music Creation & Production
http://www.inner-music.com
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/steveholt

[NeilH011]

>>> eat me.
>>
>>
>>> laters
>>> tuna
>>
>>
>> You got celery and mayo? I got toast and lettuce.
>
>
>Watch out for the mercury levels...

And the dolphin... don't forget about the dolphin.

NeilH

[Steve Holt]

"If you can deal with being a
> personal injury attorney go do it.
>
>



Ooooooooo.


Steve Holt
INNER MUSIC
Music Creation & Production
http://www.inner-music.com
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/steveholt

[Rick Powell]

(Aaron Householter) wrote in message >...
> Oh yeah Guido I forgot to mention, you can thank me for the fame this
> has given you later. Almost 100 posts. 92 and counting. Almost as many
> as people who actually read the front page of the Wall Street Journal.
> Aaron Householter
> studio1117

Hmmm....not that I read it, but if I were "looking" for publicity, I
wouldn't mind an article being published in a newspaper with 6.8
million daily (10.8 Sunday) circulation.

RP

[LeBaron & Alrich]

>> EggHd > wrote:

>> If you can deal with being a
>> personal injury attorney go do it.

> Steve Holt > wrote:

> Ooooooooo.

Hurts, doesn't it?

--
ha

[LeBaron & Alrich]

Rick Powell > wrote:

> daily (10.8 Sunday) circulation

Whoa, there's a market for lives! At least that many people need 'em!

--
ha

[ryanm]

"Aaron Householter" > wrote in message
om...
> > >
> > Get back to us when you've grown up.
>
> You're a little late to the party ****-chop.
>
First of all, that's *Mr.* ****chop to you, buddy. And no, I thought my
timing was quite adequate, just north of mediocre. Kind of like your career,
apparently.

ryanm

[Kurt Albershardt]

NeilH011 wrote:

>>>> eat me.
>>>
>>>> laters
>>>> tuna
>>>
>>>
>>> You got celery and mayo? I got toast and lettuce.
>>
>>
>> Watch out for the mercury levels...
>
>
> And the dolphin... don't forget about the dolphin.


But you can already get "Dolphin free" cans. I predict the first
company to market a certified low-mercury tuna will be printing money
for awhile.

[Aaron Householter]

(JWelsh3374) wrote in message >...
> << Oh yeah Guido I forgot to mention, you can thank me for the fame this
> has given you later. >>
>
> The only thing you have provided me with is a couple of laughs at your expense.
>
>
> << Almost 100 posts. 92 and counting. Almost as many as people who actually
> read the front page of the Wall Street Journal. >>
>
> You take care of yerself, Brainiac.
>
>
>
>
>
> searching for peace, love and quality footwear
> guido
>
OK Guido, really, I don't want to fight, but I must point out that
your "bu-bye" and "brainiac" are as dated as the mothballed show that
you put on for the nice folks from Arkansas and almost as old as the
"star" pictures on your website.(except the guys in the Band, who
regardless of where all this takes us, are really ****in' cool cats)
I'll be collecting that dollar from you. I turn down gigs all the
time. I doubt the Wal-Martians pay you more than a couple grand for
the show, maybe a little more, but hey to find entertainment that's as
stuck in the backwoods as the audience they have to pay top dollar.
I'll bet If I look close at the band pics if you have a keyboardist,
he probably has one of those thin keyboard ties. And I'll bet you have
a rising sun shirt don't cha. Perhaps a wrist band or two.
OK there you have it. My first small insults to the king of rock and
roll. I didn't want to do it, but as the great actor Sylvestor
Stallone said in the epic film FIRST BLOOD..."they drew first blood"
:-)
Kiss me baby
Aaron Householter
studio1117

[Aaron Householter]

"ryanm" > wrote in message >...
> "Aaron Householter" > wrote in message
> om...
> > > >
> > > Get back to us when you've grown up.
> >
> > You're a little late to the party ****-chop.
> >
> First of all, that's *Mr.* ****chop to you, buddy. And no, I thought my
> timing was quite adequate, just north of mediocre. Kind of like your career,
> apparently.
>
> ryanm

Perhaps you should try Webster's for the definition of apparently
Mr.****chop.
Where do you get apparent from? Have you been to my shows to see the
packed houses? Do you hang at my studio to see the work we do on a
more than regular basis? What have you discovered in all the post here
that in any way shed some light as to the status of my career? Please
look up Apparently in the dictionary for all. Your thoughts, no matter
how misdirected, do not become fact because your small mind can't
comprehend your vision from fact. I've seen plenty of times more often
than not, where the first thing the simpletons of this room do is
attack a person's "career" when they put up any disagreement with
somebody.
Now really, I like hearing opposition to my ideas, it allows me to
see more clearly all sides, I generally try not to attack the person,
but the issue at hand. I see over and over, the idea getting lost in
here in a quandary of insults. I think people feel they can show their
wit by attempting a clever slam. Don't get me wrong, I like to throw
some obvious **** out there too, like in a post back a few about
Guidos stale show, ****, I've never seen his show, how the hell would
I know what his show is like. He surely knows this and won't be
affected in anyway by the comment, it merely gives him a little
amusement for the moment, either in laughing at my obvious joke or at
the thought of his next witty response to me.(dated as it may be)I
really wish more often people would stick to the real subject matter.
A few in here have, and that has really brought up some great points
on both sides of the issue, it has surely caused me to think,
especially the one about how I could think that in a small way Guido
is bankrupting Wal-Mart from the inside out.I like that.(perhaps I
will play that Christmas Party this year after all.) Now before we
have re-hash all the BS again, can we get back to our regularly
scheduled program of Fletcher and Ted duking it out over an old NEVE
console.
and in the spirit of the late(at least his act) Guido....

....searching for tight pussy, loose shoes and a warm place to ****.
Aaron Householter
studio1117

[david]

In article >, Fletcher
> wrote:

> Aaron Householter wrote:
>
> >
> > Well, let's see, being a musician/studio owner, I work on weekend too.
>
> **** bro... work on the weekends? Miss Football? ...are you out of your ****ing mind?


I already told my wife that if the Sawx are in the Series I am home for
the first pitch of every game. **** everybody's deadlines.

We'll see ...



David Correia
Celebration Sound
Warren, Rhode Island


www.CelebrationSound.com

[david]

In article >, JWelsh3374
> wrote:

> << Hardly Mr Guido. I do work for Dreamworks, Disney, Microsoft and other
> large
> corporations just like Walmart. I am asking for insight, not whether you are
> or are
> not doing the right thing .
> I want to know if there is any line... really. >>
>
>
> What exactly makes those companies different from Wal-Mart?


I think the first difference is wages. Imagine the laughs comparing the
average paycheck of the typical employee of Dreamworks, Disney,
Microsoft and, ahem, Walmart.

Second, Health Care benefits. "According to Forbes, the self-styled
capitalist tool, employees at Wal-Mart currently earn an average hourly
wage of $7.50 - 20% to 30% less than unionized workers at Target and
Kmart. The typical Wal-Mart employee earns $18,000 and isn't eligible
for or cannot afford health benefits."

The third is size. Walmart employs more than 3 times as many Americans
as the number two American company, General Motors. How they treat
their employees matters in spades.

Four, they recently lost a sizeable classaction lawsuit - 80,000 people
- about not paying their workers overtime. And there are lots more
lawsuits on the way, including a big one about systematically paying
women less than men.

"Wal-Mart, the self-proclaimed fastest growing and largest private
employer in the United States, has systematically avoided paying
employees their full, earned wages. Wal-Mart provides perverse
incentives for managers to lower overhead costs, the largest component
of which is employee payroll, by offering financial compensation and
bonuses.
**********
"Managers subsequently under-staff projects and Wal-Mart stores in
general. These efforts force employees to work off-the-clock and
through lunch and rest breaks. Managers pressure employees to complete
assignments, while refusing to permit employees to stay on-the-clock
for the full amount of time it takes to accomplish their duties.
**********
"The class action lawsuits include allegations that Wal-Mart:
* Keeps employees locked in Wal-Mart stores after closing and requires
that they remain there after clocking out until store managers have
visited every department;
* Understaffs its stores, pressuring employees to complete assignments
while refusing to permit employees to stay on-the-clock for the time it
takes to accomplish them; and
* Denies pay for time worked off-the-clock, through meal or rest
breaks, and overtime.


Meet the new boss .... I'll leave my list of differences between these
companies at four.

If Walmart wanted to do something at my studio I would be happy to work
with them. But they are def not a company to hold in high esteem when
it comes to taking care of their employees.

For anyone remotely interested, there was a great labor day article
from the Washington Post comparing Henry Ford and Walmart. I found it
interesting reading.

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0827-06.htm


"... the employer that now sets the standards for working-class America
is Wal-Mart. The nation's largest employer, with 3,200 outlets in the
United States and sales revenue of $245 billion last year (which, if
War-Mart were a nation, would rank it between Belgium and Sweden as the
world's 19th largest economy) doesn't pay its workers -- excuse me,
"associates" -- enough to buy decent cars, let alone homes. According
to a study by Forbes, Wal-Mart employees earn an average hourly wage of
$7.50 and, annually, a princely $18,000."







David Correia
Celebration Sound
Warren, Rhode Island


www.CelebrationSound.com

[Jay Kadis]

In article > writes:
> EggHd > wrote:
>
> > << Not a 'people person' are ya, Aaron? >>
>
> > If nothing else, he has brought ****-chop to my vocabulary.
>
> Just another great band name, eh?
>
> --
> ha

Sure, that'll get ya a bunch of corporate gigs.

-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ----x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x-------- http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/~jay/ ----------x

[Jay Kadis]

In article > Kurt Albershardt
> writes:
> NeilH011 wrote:
>
> >>>> eat me.
> >>>
> >>>> laters
> >>>> tuna
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> You got celery and mayo? I got toast and lettuce.
> >>
> >>
> >> Watch out for the mercury levels...
> >
> >
> > And the dolphin... don't forget about the dolphin.
>
>
> But you can already get "Dolphin free" cans. I predict the first
> company to market a certified low-mercury tuna will be printing money
> for awhile.
>
>
>

That may not be necessary. Recently some folks at Stanford discovered the
mercury found in predatory fish is bound to sulfur and not methylated, which
could drastically reduce the biological activity of said mercury. (This was
reported in the media last week, but I don't have the exact reference.)

-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ----x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x-------- http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/~jay/ ----------x

[LeBaron & Alrich]

Jay Kadis > wrote:

> In article > writes:
> > EggHd > wrote:

> > > << Not a 'people person' are ya, Aaron? >>

> > > If nothing else, he has brought ****-chop to my vocabulary.

> > Just another great band name, eh?

> Sure, that'll get ya a bunch of corporate gigs.

Naaaa, I'm too old and not quite fat enough.

--
ha

[Dave Martin]

"NW" > wrote in message ...
> You just refuse to grow up don't you...I have one word why this should
> happen...Entitlement!
>
Entitlement? No one is 'entitled' to a job. No one is 'entitled' to have a
job that pays them enough to buy a new car... For that matter, no one is
entitled to happiness - all they're have is the right to engage in the
pursuit of happiness. No one ever said that you were entitled to catch it.

--
Dave Martin
Java Jive Studio
Nashville, TN
www.javajivestudio.com

[Roger W. Norman]

Really. WAKE UP DAVID.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"Fletcher" > wrote in message
...
> david wrote:
>
> > In article >, Fletcher
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > Aaron Householter wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Well, let's see, being a musician/studio owner, I work on weekend
too.
> > >
> > > **** bro... work on the weekends? Miss Football? ...are you out of
your ****ing mind?
> >
> > I already told my wife that if the Sawx are in the Series I am home for
> > the first pitch of every game. **** everybody's deadlines.
> >
>
> No ****ing that David... get back to work.
> --
> Fletcher
> Mercenary Audio
> TEL: 508-543-0069
> FAX: 508-543-9670
> http://www.mercenary.com
> "this is not a problem"
>
>

[Roger W. Norman]

Let's give you a little dose of reality here. All companies understaff.
It's part of the reason people have overtime, and who doesn't have some
overtime? Exempt employees? Certainly not.

Instead of you guys jumping on Wall Mart, start jumping on George Bush
because he's working right now, via
http://www.theadvertiser.com/business/html/E8DA9EEF-9871-4AAF-A485-C5EBD8B69624.shtml,
to limit a company's necessity to pay overtime for a period of a year, and
then they need not actually pay anyway.

You guys better get on the ball if you're worried about Wall Mart policies
and employees. After all, if you don't like their policies, you must side
with their employees, which means all of you guys giving Guido a hard
****ing time should shut the **** up and work hard to make certain that Wall
Mart employees get their due.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"david" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, JWelsh3374
> > wrote:
>
> > << Hardly Mr Guido. I do work for Dreamworks, Disney, Microsoft and
other
> > large
> > corporations just like Walmart. I am asking for insight, not whether you
are
> > or are
> > not doing the right thing .
> > I want to know if there is any line... really. >>
> >
> >
> > What exactly makes those companies different from Wal-Mart?
>
>
> I think the first difference is wages. Imagine the laughs comparing the
> average paycheck of the typical employee of Dreamworks, Disney,
> Microsoft and, ahem, Walmart.
>
> Second, Health Care benefits. "According to Forbes, the self-styled
> capitalist tool, employees at Wal-Mart currently earn an average hourly
> wage of $7.50 - 20% to 30% less than unionized workers at Target and
> Kmart. The typical Wal-Mart employee earns $18,000 and isn't eligible
> for or cannot afford health benefits."
>
> The third is size. Walmart employs more than 3 times as many Americans
> as the number two American company, General Motors. How they treat
> their employees matters in spades.
>
> Four, they recently lost a sizeable classaction lawsuit - 80,000 people
> - about not paying their workers overtime. And there are lots more
> lawsuits on the way, including a big one about systematically paying
> women less than men.
>
> "Wal-Mart, the self-proclaimed fastest growing and largest private
> employer in the United States, has systematically avoided paying
> employees their full, earned wages. Wal-Mart provides perverse
> incentives for managers to lower overhead costs, the largest component
> of which is employee payroll, by offering financial compensation and
> bonuses.
>
> "Managers subsequently under-staff projects and Wal-Mart stores in
> general. These efforts force employees to work off-the-clock and
> through lunch and rest breaks. Managers pressure employees to complete
> assignments, while refusing to permit employees to stay on-the-clock
> for the full amount of time it takes to accomplish their duties.
>
> "The class action lawsuits include allegations that Wal-Mart:
> * Keeps employees locked in Wal-Mart stores after closing and requires
> that they remain there after clocking out until store managers have
> visited every department;
> * Understaffs its stores, pressuring employees to complete assignments
> while refusing to permit employees to stay on-the-clock for the time it
> takes to accomplish them; and
> * Denies pay for time worked off-the-clock, through meal or rest
> breaks, and overtime.
>
>
> Meet the new boss .... I'll leave my list of differences between these
> companies at four.
>
> If Walmart wanted to do something at my studio I would be happy to work
> with them. But they are def not a company to hold in high esteem when
> it comes to taking care of their employees.
>
> For anyone remotely interested, there was a great labor day article
> from the Washington Post comparing Henry Ford and Walmart. I found it
> interesting reading.
>
> http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0827-06.htm
>
>
> "... the employer that now sets the standards for working-class America
> is Wal-Mart. The nation's largest employer, with 3,200 outlets in the
> United States and sales revenue of $245 billion last year (which, if
> War-Mart were a nation, would rank it between Belgium and Sweden as the
> world's 19th largest economy) doesn't pay its workers -- excuse me,
> "associates" -- enough to buy decent cars, let alone homes. According
> to a study by Forbes, Wal-Mart employees earn an average hourly wage of
> $7.50 and, annually, a princely $18,000."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> David Correia
> Celebration Sound
> Warren, Rhode Island
>
>
> www.CelebrationSound.com

[Roger W. Norman]

What was that statement a couple of weeks ago? Something like "What, you
have the time and the energy to worry about some bull**** that doesn't apply
to you." Whomever wrote that, and I do have it in my "sent items", I
applaud the sentiment again. An excellent view on life.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"Fletcher" > wrote in message
...
> david wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I think the first difference is wages. Imagine the laughs comparing the
> > average paycheck of the typical employee of Dreamworks, Disney,
> > Microsoft and, ahem, Walmart.
>
> Uhhh, what the **** do you care what any of these gigs pay?
>
> >
> > Second, Health Care benefits. "According to Forbes, the self-styled
> > capitalist tool, employees at Wal-Mart currently earn an average hourly
> > wage of $7.50 - 20% to 30% less than unionized workers at Target and
> > Kmart. The typical Wal-Mart employee earns $18,000 and isn't eligible
> > for or cannot afford health benefits."
>
> Uhhh, what the **** do you care what the "bennies" are at Wal-Mart? I
worry about
> the "bennies" at M-A... you should worry about the "bennies" at
Celebration
> Sound... just like Guido worries about his "bennies"... it's kinda about
worrying
> about our own business... something tells me that 'Guido' ain't setting
pay nor
> benefit policy for the mighty Guitar Center of women's undergarments.
>
> >
> > The third is size. Walmart employs more than 3 times as many Americans
> > as the number two American company, General Motors. How they treat
> > their employees matters in spades.
>
> Who you callin' a "spade" mother****er? Would you prefer the spades are
> unemployed? **** dude... a gig's a gig.
>
> >
> > Four, they recently lost a sizeable classaction lawsuit - 80,000 people
> > - about not paying their workers overtime. And there are lots more
> > lawsuits on the way, including a big one about systematically paying
> > women less than men.
>
> Uhhh David... the location your in, the studio formerly known as Normandy
Sound...
> also lost a little argument about pay and overtime with the RI labor
boards...
> every business is run it's own way... the bottom line is that if these
people feel
> like they're being abused, they should ****ing quit and find a new gig.
> Classaction suits aren't about the people involved in "the class", they're
about
> the 30-40 points the ****ing lawyers pull off the top... grow the **** up.
>
> >
> > "Wal-Mart, the self-proclaimed fastest growing and largest private
> > employer in the United States, has systematically avoided paying
> > employees their full, earned wages. Wal-Mart provides perverse
> > incentives for managers to lower overhead costs, the largest component
> > of which is employee payroll, by offering financial compensation and
> > bonuses.
>
> So which is it... financial compensation and bonuses... or getting boned?
> Again... what the **** does it matter to you... and just curious, how the
****
> does this, in any way, relate to Guido's gig? Help me out here... I'm a
little
> lost on that one.
>
> >
> >
> > "Managers subsequently under-staff projects and Wal-Mart stores in
> > general. These efforts force employees to work off-the-clock and
> > through lunch and rest breaks. Managers pressure employees to complete
> > assignments, while refusing to permit employees to stay on-the-clock
> > for the full amount of time it takes to accomplish their duties.
>
> Sounds like a $2-/hr. assisting gig I had once... of course minimum wage
was $3.15
> at the time...
>
> >
> >
> > "The class action lawsuits include allegations that Wal-Mart:
> > * Keeps employees locked in Wal-Mart stores after closing and requires
> > that they remain there after clocking out until store managers have
> > visited every department;
> > * Understaffs its stores, pressuring employees to complete assignments
> > while refusing to permit employees to stay on-the-clock for the time it
> > takes to accomplish them; and
> > * Denies pay for time worked off-the-clock, through meal or rest
> > breaks, and overtime.
> >
> > Meet the new boss .... I'll leave my list of differences between these
> > companies at four.
> >
> > If Walmart wanted to do something at my studio I would be happy to work
> > with them. But they are def not a company to hold in high esteem when
> > it comes to taking care of their employees.
> >
> > For anyone remotely interested, there was a great labor day article
> > from the Washington Post comparing Henry Ford and Walmart. I found it
> > interesting reading.
> >
> > http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0827-06.htm
> >
> > "... the employer that now sets the standards for working-class America
> > is Wal-Mart. The nation's largest employer, with 3,200 outlets in the
> > United States and sales revenue of $245 billion last year (which, if
> > War-Mart were a nation, would rank it between Belgium and Sweden as the
> > world's 19th largest economy) doesn't pay its workers -- excuse me,
> > "associates" -- enough to buy decent cars, let alone homes. According
> > to a study by Forbes, Wal-Mart employees earn an average hourly wage of
> > $7.50 and, annually, a princely $18,000."
> >
> > David Correia
> > Celebration Sound
> > Warren, Rhode Island
> >
> >
> > www.CelebrationSound.com
>
> Blah, blah, ****ing blah... workers unite!! Kill the bourgeoisie employer
> cocksuckers!!! Ya know David, you've convinced me... we need to
nationalize all
> these companies, pay the workers living wages... nationalize all the
industries...
> let each man [and wo-main] work to the best of their ability and be
compensated to
> their needs!!! **** these capitalist cocksucking assholes that create
jobs... the
> state should create jobs. There should be no competition, there should be
no
> rewards for jobs well done, nor penalty for balls dropped... we should all
work
> for the betterment of mankind as a whole and the world will be a utopian
ideal...
>
> Wait a minute... they tried that... there were a couple of flaws with the
> theory... it turned out that Harpo was hipper than Karl... never mind.
How about
> these ****in' "employees/associates" get an education, a real job, and
move out of
> the 'single wide'... in the meanwhile... they have a ****ing gig. They
should be
> thankful for having a gig... and if they want a better gig, they should
train for
> a better gig... in the meanwhile it's better than no gig at all.
>
> BTW... the fact Guido works for these "assholes" really bears no
relevance. Just
> as you mentioned your studio would work for these "assholes", how is that
> different from Guido playing guitar for them? A gig is a gig. So the
brother
> gigs for Wal-Mart, you gig with whoever buys time in your studio.
> --
> Fletcher
> Mercenary Audio
> TEL: 508-543-0069
> FAX: 508-543-9670
> http://www.mercenary.com
> "this is not a problem"
>
>

[Roger W. Norman]

No, Fletcher is the one grown up. It's the ones saying that personal
preference wins over necessity that haven't grown up! <g> "Time will tell"
is pretty appropriate here.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"NW" > wrote in message ...
> You just refuse to grow up don't you...I have one word why this should
> happen...Entitlement!
>
> Fletcher wrote:
>
> > Blah, blah, ****ing blah... workers unite!! Kill the bourgeoisie
employer
> > cocksuckers!!!
>
> > they have a ****ing gig. They should be
> > thankful for having a gig... and if they want a better gig, they should
train for
> > a better gig... in the meanwhile it's better than no gig at all.
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Nate West
> "Assiduus usus uni rei deditus et ingenium et artem saepe vincit."
>
>

[Roger W. Norman]

Look, Aaron, it's EASY to turn down gigs. It's much harder to accept them
and then have the client want you back. But young people seemingly want to
take the easy way and consider it some sort of approach to something call
"art" rather than simply saying they can't do the job so they'd rather say
they won't. But if one could do the job and then say they didn't want to
because the company sold furs and they didn't want to support the slaughter
of fur bearing animals, I'd say go for it. This is Wall ****ing Mart.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"Aaron Householter" > wrote in message
om...
> (JWelsh3374) wrote in message
>...
> > << Oh yeah Guido I forgot to mention, you can thank me for the fame this
> > has given you later. >>
> >
> > The only thing you have provided me with is a couple of laughs at your
expense.
> >
> >
> > << Almost 100 posts. 92 and counting. Almost as many as people who
actually
> > read the front page of the Wall Street Journal. >>
> >
> > You take care of yerself, Brainiac.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > searching for peace, love and quality footwear
> > guido
> >
> OK Guido, really, I don't want to fight, but I must point out that
> your "bu-bye" and "brainiac" are as dated as the mothballed show that
> you put on for the nice folks from Arkansas and almost as old as the
> "star" pictures on your website.(except the guys in the Band, who
> regardless of where all this takes us, are really ****in' cool cats)
> I'll be collecting that dollar from you. I turn down gigs all the
> time. I doubt the Wal-Martians pay you more than a couple grand for
> the show, maybe a little more, but hey to find entertainment that's as
> stuck in the backwoods as the audience they have to pay top dollar.
> I'll bet If I look close at the band pics if you have a keyboardist,
> he probably has one of those thin keyboard ties. And I'll bet you have
> a rising sun shirt don't cha. Perhaps a wrist band or two.
> OK there you have it. My first small insults to the king of rock and
> roll. I didn't want to do it, but as the great actor Sylvestor
> Stallone said in the epic film FIRST BLOOD..."they drew first blood"
> :-)
> Kiss me baby
> Aaron Householter
> studio1117

[Roger W. Norman]

Apparent. Hmmm. Let's see. I'd guess that you're on the low side of 26,
but that's just a personal experience guess. No need to go into the things
that suggest the deduction, and if I'm wrong, well, I was wrong one other
time so the ice has been broken.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"Aaron Householter" > wrote in message
om...
> "ryanm" > wrote in message
>...
> > "Aaron Householter" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > > >
> > > > Get back to us when you've grown up.
> > >
> > > You're a little late to the party ****-chop.
> > >
> > First of all, that's *Mr.* ****chop to you, buddy. And no, I thought
my
> > timing was quite adequate, just north of mediocre. Kind of like your
career,
> > apparently.
> >
> > ryanm
>
> Perhaps you should try Webster's for the definition of apparently
> Mr.****chop.
> Where do you get apparent from? Have you been to my shows to see the
> packed houses? Do you hang at my studio to see the work we do on a
> more than regular basis? What have you discovered in all the post here
> that in any way shed some light as to the status of my career? Please
> look up Apparently in the dictionary for all. Your thoughts, no matter
> how misdirected, do not become fact because your small mind can't
> comprehend your vision from fact. I've seen plenty of times more often
> than not, where the first thing the simpletons of this room do is
> attack a person's "career" when they put up any disagreement with
> somebody.
> Now really, I like hearing opposition to my ideas, it allows me to
> see more clearly all sides, I generally try not to attack the person,
> but the issue at hand. I see over and over, the idea getting lost in
> here in a quandary of insults. I think people feel they can show their
> wit by attempting a clever slam. Don't get me wrong, I like to throw
> some obvious **** out there too, like in a post back a few about
> Guidos stale show, ****, I've never seen his show, how the hell would
> I know what his show is like. He surely knows this and won't be
> affected in anyway by the comment, it merely gives him a little
> amusement for the moment, either in laughing at my obvious joke or at
> the thought of his next witty response to me.(dated as it may be)I
> really wish more often people would stick to the real subject matter.
> A few in here have, and that has really brought up some great points
> on both sides of the issue, it has surely caused me to think,
> especially the one about how I could think that in a small way Guido
> is bankrupting Wal-Mart from the inside out.I like that.(perhaps I
> will play that Christmas Party this year after all.) Now before we
> have re-hash all the BS again, can we get back to our regularly
> scheduled program of Fletcher and Ted duking it out over an old NEVE
> console.
> and in the spirit of the late(at least his act) Guido....
>
> ...searching for tight pussy, loose shoes and a warm place to ****.
> Aaron Householter
> studio1117

[Charles Thomas]

In article >,
Fletcher > wrote:

> Blah, blah, ****ing blah... workers unite!! Kill the bourgeoisie employer
> cocksuckers!!! Ya know David, you've convinced me... we need to nationalize
> all
> these companies, pay the workers living wages... nationalize all the
> industries...
> let each man [and wo-main] work to the best of their ability and be
> compensated to
> their needs!!! **** these capitalist cocksucking assholes that create
> jobs... the
> state should create jobs.


Yes, yes. Why examine the fact that there are problems when you can
just wave your hands and say that the rich all-powerful and abusive
corporations are "creating jobs?

I bet you wouldn't be doing so much sticking up for them if you were on
the short end of their stick. The very fact that you have your opinion
is a clear indicator that you make a decent amount of money, have health
insurance, etc. Hence your opinion is inherently biased. If you were
working at Wal-Mart and getting ****ed over on you salary and benefits,
you might be singing a different tune.

"Let the rich do whatever they want because the poor don't create jobs"
isn't going to help anything. It's only going to make the rich richer.
Trickle-down economics was a failure. Still is.

To sum up:

"Conservatives love America like a child loves its mommy. Liberals love
America like grown-ups. To a child, everything mommy does is wonderful
and anyone who criticizes mommy is bad. Grown-up love means actually
understanding what you love. Always appreciating the good, but
recognizing the bad and wanting to work toward improvement." - Al Franken

[ryanm]

"Aaron Householter" > wrote in message
om...
>
> Perhaps you should

<snip>

Look, something tells me you're mistakenly under the impression that I
want to discuss this with you. Let me clarify this for you. If you're a
pre-pubescent teenager who wants to be a musician, I say again, get back to
us when you've grown up. If you're over the age of 25 and still have this
attitude, then there's really no point in continuing, because you have
nothing of value to say. Some people never grow up, and if that works for
you then good for you, but for the rest of us who have to live in the real
world, reading your post is just a waste of 45 seconds that could better
spent somewhere else.

ryanm

[SoundCheck]

Working for the (corporate) man....

I just saw a commercial last night for Victoria's Secret. Beautiful
women, in their skivvies, with none other than Bob Dylan playing in
the background. The tune was Love Sick, or it might be called I'm
Sick of Love (can't remember the exact title of the tune - but I do
like the song a lot), off of his Time Out Of Mind. Don't think I ever
heard Dylan on top of a TV ad before, but then again I don't catch all
of them.

Once the troubadour _against_ the "man", he's now singin' _for_ the
man... (and I really don't care).

Oh man oh man, I'm so disillusioned, I think I'll just go sell
real-estate.

Angelo


(Aaron Householter) wrote in message >...
> (JWelsh3374) wrote in message >...
> > << Oh yeah Guido I forgot to mention, you can thank me for the fame this
> > has given you later. >>
> >
> > The only thing you have provided me with is a couple of laughs at your expense.
> >
> >
> > << Almost 100 posts. 92 and counting. Almost as many as people who actually
> > read the front page of the Wall Street Journal. >>
> >
> > You take care of yerself, Brainiac.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > searching for peace, love and quality footwear
> > guido
> >
> OK Guido, really, I don't want to fight, but I must point out that
> your "bu-bye" and "brainiac" are as dated as the mothballed show that
> you put on for the nice folks from Arkansas and almost as old as the
> "star" pictures on your website.(except the guys in the Band, who
> regardless of where all this takes us, are really ****in' cool cats)
> I'll be collecting that dollar from you. I turn down gigs all the
> time. I doubt the Wal-Martians pay you more than a couple grand for
> the show, maybe a little more, but hey to find entertainment that's as
> stuck in the backwoods as the audience they have to pay top dollar.
> I'll bet If I look close at the band pics if you have a keyboardist,
> he probably has one of those thin keyboard ties. And I'll bet you have
> a rising sun shirt don't cha. Perhaps a wrist band or two.
> OK there you have it. My first small insults to the king of rock and
> roll. I didn't want to do it, but as the great actor Sylvestor
> Stallone said in the epic film FIRST BLOOD..."they drew first blood"
> :-)
> Kiss me baby
> Aaron Householter
> studio1117

[NW]

Dave...what is your deal? Or maybe it's *my* deal...since I was trying to be a
bit ironic...and failed to be so. Maybe I should use Emoticon's...or are those
out favor here still?


Dave Martin wrote:

> Entitlement? No one is 'entitled' to a job. No one is 'entitled' to have a
> job that pays them enough to buy a new car... For that matter, no one is
> entitled to happiness - all they're have is the right to engage in the
> pursuit of happiness. No one ever said that you were entitled to catch it.

--
Cheers,
Nate West
"Assiduus usus uni rei deditus et ingenium et artem saepe vincit."

[Taylor MIller]

----- Original Message -----
From: "david"


> Second, Health Care benefits. "According to Forbes, the self-styled
> capitalist tool, employees at Wal-Mart currently earn an average hourly
> wage of $7.50 - 20% to 30% less than unionized workers at Target and
> Kmart. The typical Wal-Mart employee earns $18,000 and isn't eligible
> for or cannot afford health benefits."

I was a contractor for K-Mart. I haven't worked for them in over 10 years.
At that time K-Mart certainly wasn't unionized. If unions have made inroads
into that company I don't think it's widespread.

I watched Wal~Mart systematically destroy K-Mart. It's all about the price
baby. People aren't going to pay more for the same item. K-Mart can't
compete as it is. Let them get unionized, and they are history.

As far as wages go, Wal~Mart has the right to pay whatever they want to pay.
People can either work for them or not. I did a 7 month gig at a SuperCenter
back in '97. When I quit I was making $13.52 an hour. I've had jobs that
paid more, and I've had jobs that paid less.

> The third is size. Walmart employs more than 3 times as many Americans
> as the number two American company, General Motors. How they treat
> their employees matters in spades.

Why does it matter? Everyone is free to look for a new gig if they don't
like the one they have. To hear you talk, they have everyone in a dog collar
and on a chain.

> Four, they recently lost a sizeable classaction lawsuit - 80,000 people
> - about not paying their workers overtime. And there are lots more
> lawsuits on the way, including a big one about systematically paying
> women less than men.

This sounds suspect to me. I've never heard of it. Do you have a link? It
sure irritates me that I might have to pay 15 cents more for my toaster to
make some mook lawyers rich.

When I was working for Wal~Mart, their training program made it clear that
anyone working off the clock would be immediately terminated. I was working
between 50 to 60 hrs. per week. I collected every cent of my overtime pay.

<snip a bunch of Wal~Mart propaganda>

> "Managers subsequently under-staff projects and Wal-Mart stores in
> general. These efforts force employees to work off-the-clock and
> through lunch and rest breaks. Managers pressure employees to complete
> assignments, while refusing to permit employees to stay on-the-clock
> for the full amount of time it takes to accomplish their duties.

Pure hog-wash. In a company as big as Wal~Mart you are bound to find some
examples of managers stepping over the line. Wal~Mart doesn't have a policy
of doing this from my experience.

> "The class action lawsuits include allegations that Wal-Mart:
> * Keeps employees locked in Wal-Mart stores after closing and requires
> that they remain there after clocking out until store managers have
> visited every department;

Oh mercy, mercy me, retail ain't what it used to be...

So let me get this straight, now they are guilty of kidnapping and unlawful
imprisonment? Give me a freaking break.

> * Understaffs its stores, pressuring employees to complete assignments
> while refusing to permit employees to stay on-the-clock for the time it
> takes to accomplish them; and

Isn't this the same as the last allegation, sans unlawful imprisonment?

> * Denies pay for time worked off-the-clock, through meal or rest
> breaks, and overtime.

Isn't this the same point made in the first two allegations?

> Meet the new boss .... I'll leave my list of differences between these
> companies at four.
>
> If Walmart wanted to do something at my studio I would be happy to work
> with them. But they are def not a company to hold in high esteem when
> it comes to taking care of their employees.

I don't see anyone here bowing down and doing an act of worship at the altar
of Wal~Mart.

Wal~Mart wasn't the best gig I've ever had, but it sure wasn't the worst
either. One of my supervisors there was the brightest most incredible boss
I've ever had. They transferred her out and put one in that was very close
to the worse I've ever had.

I would work for them again in a heart beat, if I needed to. Even if I
could only make $7.50. At least it would buy me beans and cornbread until I
could find something better.

Incidentally, during that time period (1997) they had excellent health
insurance. Also, anyone who has been working at Wal~Mart long enough to
retire, usually has quite a nest egg of Wal~Mart stock.

> For anyone remotely interested, there was a great labor day article
> from the Washington Post comparing Henry Ford and Walmart. I found it
> interesting reading.

Sorry, not remotely interested.

Taylor

[NeilH011]

>I watched Wal~Mart systematically destroy K-Mart. It's all about the price
>baby. People aren't going to pay more for the same item. K-Mart can't
>compete as it is. Let them get unionized, and they are history.

They're already history... it's all over but the crying. OK, there's probably
already been some crying, but nonetheless, they're bragging that they only lost
$342 million last quarter... WOO-HOO! I guess that's good from a certain
perspective since they lost a whole freakin' BILLION the quarter before, but
there's no light at the end of that tunnel.
They're stuck in some kind of retailing limbo between Wal-Mart & Target, with
no real marketing/positioning leverage at all. If people want cheap, cheap,
cheap, they'll go to Wal-Mart; if people want a little nicer environment that
also happens not to have **** strewn all over the place (which seems to be a
hallmark of every Wal-Mart I've ever been in), then they'll go to Target...
what's K-Mart got to offer? Yep, their goose is cooked.

And that's three cliches in one post... a hat trick! lol

NeilH

[david]

If you haven't heard about it it probably ain't true, right? Pure
hog-wash?? Buddy, you think I made up this **** up? Ever hear of
Google?

The quotes are not mine, they are what Walmart has been found GUILTY of
so far in 3 states: Oregon, Colorado and New Mexico. With lot more
states to follow. I believe the Texas lawsuit is for 200,000 current
and former "associates" alone.

It may be hard for you to believe, Walmart having been so nice to you
and all, but this was a much too common practice for highly pressured
managers and assistant managers to meet prescribed numbers for their
stores. Pretty damn sad.

I'll save ya the search. A New York Times article from a year ago tells
the story:

http://www.jdavislaw.com/NYTimesWalMart.htm



David Correia
Celebration Sound
Warren, Rhode Island


www.CelebrationSound.com



article >, Taylor MIller
> wrote:

> > Four, they recently lost a sizeable classaction lawsuit - 80,000 people
> > - about not paying their workers overtime. And there are lots more
> > lawsuits on the way, including a big one about systematically paying
> > women less than men.
>
> This sounds suspect to me. I've never heard of it. Do you have a link? It
> sure irritates me that I might have to pay 15 cents more for my toaster to
> make some mook lawyers rich.
>
> When I was working for Wal~Mart, their training program made it clear that
> anyone working off the clock would be immediately terminated. I was working
> between 50 to 60 hrs. per week. I collected every cent of my overtime pay.
>
> <snip a bunch of Wal~Mart propaganda>
>
> > "Managers subsequently under-staff projects and Wal-Mart stores in
> > general. These efforts force employees to work off-the-clock and
> > through lunch and rest breaks. Managers pressure employees to complete
> > assignments, while refusing to permit employees to stay on-the-clock
> > for the full amount of time it takes to accomplish their duties.
>
> Pure hog-wash. In a company as big as Wal~Mart you are bound to find some
> examples of managers stepping over the line. Wal~Mart doesn't have a policy
> of doing this from my experience.
>
> > "The class action lawsuits include allegations that Wal-Mart:
> > * Keeps employees locked in Wal-Mart stores after closing and requires
> > that they remain there after clocking out until store managers have
> > visited every department;
>
> Oh mercy, mercy me, retail ain't what it used to be...
>
> So let me get this straight, now they are guilty of kidnapping and unlawful
> imprisonment? Give me a freaking break.
>
> > * Understaffs its stores, pressuring employees to complete assignments
> > while refusing to permit employees to stay on-the-clock for the time it
> > takes to accomplish them; and
>
> Isn't this the same as the last allegation, sans unlawful imprisonment?
>
> > * Denies pay for time worked off-the-clock, through meal or rest
> > breaks, and overtime.
>
> Isn't this the same point made in the first two allegations?
>
> > Meet the new boss .... I'll leave my list of differences between these
> > companies at four.
> >
> > If Walmart wanted to do something at my studio I would be happy to work
> > with them. But they are def not a company to hold in high esteem when
> > it comes to taking care of their employees.
>
> I don't see anyone here bowing down and doing an act of worship at the altar
> of Wal~Mart.
>
> Wal~Mart wasn't the best gig I've ever had, but it sure wasn't the worst
> either. One of my supervisors there was the brightest most incredible boss
> I've ever had. They transferred her out and put one in that was very close
> to the worse I've ever had.
>
> I would work for them again in a heart beat, if I needed to. Even if I
> could only make $7.50. At least it would buy me beans and cornbread until I
> could find something better.
>
> Incidentally, during that time period (1997) they had excellent health
> insurance. Also, anyone who has been working at Wal~Mart long enough to
> retire, usually has quite a nest egg of Wal~Mart stock.
>
> > For anyone remotely interested, there was a great labor day article
> > from the Washington Post comparing Henry Ford and Walmart. I found it
> > interesting reading.
>
> Sorry, not remotely interested.
>
> Taylor

[Roger W. Norman]

I don't have any songs that would work for Victoria's Secret, but if you get
the gig, I'll gladly play live in the band! <g>

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"ryanm" > wrote in message
...
> "SoundCheck" > wrote in message
> om...
> >
> > I just saw a commercial last night for Victoria's Secret. Beautiful
> > women, in their skivvies, with none other than Bob Dylan playing in
> > the background. The tune was Love Sick, or it might be called I'm
> > Sick of Love (can't remember the exact title of the tune - but I do
> > like the song a lot), off of his Time Out Of Mind. Don't think I ever
> > heard Dylan on top of a TV ad before, but then again I don't catch all
> > of them.
> >
> Well, there's selling out and there's selling out, but anytime it
> involves mostly naked hot women, it's not selling out at all, it's what
rock
> n roll is all about. ; )
>
> To Victoria's Secret: I have several songs that would sound great
behind
> a bunch of mostly naked women dancing. Please call...
>
> ryanm
>
>

[Steve Holt]

"Roger W. Norman" > wrote in message
...
> one doesn't make a career out
> of getting someone else coffee, unless it's at an law office.
>

Or a recording studio.



Steve Holt
INNER MUSIC
Music Creation & Production
http://www.inner-music.com
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/steveholt

[Glenn Dowdy]

"Roger W. Norman" > wrote in message
...
> When a new position within the company
> means you've moved to the express lane checkout, it's time to start
thinking
> about your personal priorities. Almost anyone could take those skills to
> Kroger or Giant or whatever and make union wages.
>
No doubt. As a union grocery clerk in 1985 I was making over $9 an hour. I
can only imagine what you'd make now.

Glenn D.

[Roger W. Norman]

How long you been in business, Fletcher? I wasn't talking about a developed
business, I'm talking about small business startups. As far as I know,
you've been in business since before I actually started coming to RAP full
time, which puts it about maybe 7 or 8 years. And I dare say you haven't
had 15% per annum growth through all those 7 or 8 years or however long
you've been in business, although I'd be glad to be wrong.

And I'll also bet that you've been stretched a few times due of that kind of
growth rate because it's obvious that one with X amount of dollars starting
a business only has Y amount of credit to get inventory in, and needs to
turn Y over even faster than normal if stock is on floorplanning or worse,
direct payout of dollars. Not well said, I realize that, but if you had,
say, $50k to start with and you spent $25 to get a storefront, signs,
electricity and other utilities, storage and warehoursing, inventory and
personnel, somewhere you weren't going to make payments if you suddenly had
to have an 15% increase in your outlay with a 30 day float.

Now I know you were just razzing me, and that's fine. I know that if you
say you've done a 15% increase in business you in fact have done a 15%
increase in business on a per annum basis because I know you to be a man of
his word. But you didn't start that way, then you couldn't maintain that
rate without some additional investment (read: debt) to have more
storage/warehousing, and to cover personnel, utilities, inventory costs,
insurance, and taxes. I KNOW this as I've done it. And I'm talking about
without debt accumulation, surprise investments and the like.

In other words, I do have the experiece in retail operations as I was the
Retail Director of Venture Video and developed 4 functioning stores with
sales in the millions within a short period of time (two years). But as
luck would have it, my President decided that we needed to grow faster than
we had already established and killed the company. Robbing Peter to pay
Paul doesn't work, but it always comes down to that when one has X dollars
coming in and X+Y dollars going out. One can't exceed the principles of
growth in business because it will only work for a short period of time. If
it's not 15% growth per annum in your business, there's still a point you
can't exceed, which was the original point and that to which Kurt was
alluding to. Six to eight percent is a pretty decent rate of growth without
undue pressure. 15% is questionable without additional funds or debt
burden.
--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"Fletcher" > wrote in message
...
> "Roger W. Norman" wrote:
>
> > A small company cannot support a 15% growth
> > per annum, for instance.
>
> ****... now you tell me. Damn... we've been ****ed for the last 6 years
and I
> had no idea!! Thanks for lettin' me know.
> --
> Fletcher
> Mercenary Audio
> TEL: 508-543-0069
> FAX: 508-543-9670
> http://www.mercenary.com
> "this is not a problem"
>
>

[Fletcher]

"Roger W. Norman" wrote:

> How long you been in business, Fletcher? I wasn't talking about a developed
> business, I'm talking about small business startups. As far as I know,
> you've been in business since before I actually started coming to RAP full
> time, which puts it about maybe 7 or 8 years. And I dare say you haven't
> had 15% per annum growth through all those 7 or 8 years or however long
> you've been in business, although I'd be glad to be wrong.

It's been 15 years, 5 full changes in what the business actually does [no
****... 5 full reinvention's of the wheel!!] and the mother****er was basically
started with $50.00 USD [five-oh... fifty, a.k.a 1/2 a "C-note"] and a
hangover... I ain't gonna say where it be at the moment... but yes, it is highly
possible to manage sustained growth over a long period of time.

Don't get me wrong ace... ain't been nothin' but an accident since day one... we
have, for all intents and purposes, "Forest Gumped" our way through the various
changes in the industry and reinvention's of our firm... my only point being
that a double digit annual growth rate over an extended period of time is indeed
possible... especially with Prilosec® about to become available as an 'over the
counter' product...

Peace.
--
Fletcher
Mercenary Audio
TEL: 508-543-0069
FAX: 508-543-9670
http://www.mercenary.com
"this is not a problem"

[Steve Holt]

"Fletcher" > wrote in message
...
> "Roger W. Norman" wrote:
>
> > How long you been in business, Fletcher? I wasn't talking about a
developed
> > business, I'm talking about small business startups. As far as I know,
> > you've been in business since before I actually started coming to RAP
full
> > time, which puts it about maybe 7 or 8 years. And I dare say you
haven't
> > had 15% per annum growth through all those 7 or 8 years or however long
> > you've been in business, although I'd be glad to be wrong.
>
> It's been 15 years, 5 full changes in what the business actually does [no
> ****... 5 full reinvention's of the wheel!!] and the mother****er was
basically
> started with $50.00 USD [five-oh... fifty, a.k.a 1/2 a "C-note"] and a
> hangover... I ain't gonna say where it be at the moment... but yes, it is
highly
> possible to manage sustained growth over a long period of time.
>
> Don't get me wrong ace... ain't been nothin' but an accident since day
one... we
> have, for all intents and purposes, "Forest Gumped" our way through the
various
> changes in the industry and reinvention's of our firm... my only point
being
> that a double digit annual growth rate over an extended period of time is
indeed
> possible... especially with Prilosec® about to become available as an
'over the
> counter' product...



When's the IPO?

--
Steve Holt
INNER MUSIC
Music Creation & Production
http://www.inner-music.com
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/steveholt

[Willie K.Yee, M.D.]

"Steve Holt" > wrote:
>"Fletcher" > wrote
>> that a double digit annual growth rate over an extended period of time
>
>When's the IPO?
>

'bout 18 months before the date of the one-way ticket he has
to the Cayman Islands.

--



Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://www.bestweb.net/~wkyee
Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry http://www.pkc.com
Webmaster and Guitarist for the Big Blue Big Band http://www.bigbluebigband.org

[Greg]

(JWelsh3374) wrote in message >...
> << I guess not. >>
>
>
> Rock ’n’ Retail:
> Former Punker Calls Tunes for Wal-Mart...

Cool, thanks. Of course posting all this violates the WSJ's
copyright, and by reading it I have stolen content that I am ethically
obliged to have paid for. Perhaps you, me, every other reader, every
Usenet feed, and Google should be all be sued and jailed? Teach us
all a lesson about not stealing from those hard-working reporters and
editors that make newspapers possible. You'd think our parents would
have raised us better ...

[Roger W. Norman]

There are exceptions that prove the rule. Reinventing the company when
necessary is a good thing that not many small business owners recognize. I
mean, almost the entire American automobile industry didn't understand a
major change in philosophy was necessary when the oil embargo hit, and it
almost drove them all under.

But there's also the point that you obviously didn't start out ladened with
debt, which most SBA businesses do, and it's how the floorplanning can carry
that debt forward for a long period of time if one doesn't understand the
necessity to turn over X amount of inventory within a specific time frame.
And that goes to what Kurt was saying about small businesses getting in over
their heads because they couldn't manage large contracts for product due to
that debt burden. And on the supply side it's a little different, since one
has to tool up for more production, have available space for warehousing
increased inventory, etc. You know the game. It's scary but fully 90% of
all small businesses go out of business within two years these days. That's
up another 10% from twenty years ago.

I've said it before, but I'm surprised that 9/11 didn't sprout more
independant small businesses offering local services. Seems like it might
have been a logical result to me. But hey, I've been wrong before.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"Fletcher" > wrote in message
...
> "Roger W. Norman" wrote:
>
> > How long you been in business, Fletcher? I wasn't talking about a
developed
> > business, I'm talking about small business startups. As far as I know,
> > you've been in business since before I actually started coming to RAP
full
> > time, which puts it about maybe 7 or 8 years. And I dare say you
haven't
> > had 15% per annum growth through all those 7 or 8 years or however long
> > you've been in business, although I'd be glad to be wrong.
>
> It's been 15 years, 5 full changes in what the business actually does [no
> ****... 5 full reinvention's of the wheel!!] and the mother****er was
basically
> started with $50.00 USD [five-oh... fifty, a.k.a 1/2 a "C-note"] and a
> hangover... I ain't gonna say where it be at the moment... but yes, it is
highly
> possible to manage sustained growth over a long period of time.
>
> Don't get me wrong ace... ain't been nothin' but an accident since day
one... we
> have, for all intents and purposes, "Forest Gumped" our way through the
various
> changes in the industry and reinvention's of our firm... my only point
being
> that a double digit annual growth rate over an extended period of time is
indeed
> possible... especially with Prilosec® about to become available as an
'over the
> counter' product...
>
> Peace.
> --
> Fletcher
> Mercenary Audio
> TEL: 508-543-0069
> FAX: 508-543-9670
> http://www.mercenary.com
> "this is not a problem"
>
>

[Fletcher]

Steve Holt wrote:

> When's the IPO?

Whenever you want to put it together...

I don't know if you've ever noticed... but on the M-A website, under the
"Search" box and over the phone number there is a little "message" in red that
changes about every hour... I don't know when it comes up... but one of them
says something like "mercenary.com, too stupid to do an IPO, smart enough to
know where the mics go" [most of them are kinda goofy... some of them are
pretty funny... it all depends on the time of day you happen to hit the site]
--
Fletcher
Mercenary Audio
TEL: 508-543-0069
FAX: 508-543-9670
http://www.mercenary.com
"this is not a problem"

[Rob Adelman]

Aaron Householter wrote:

> Give me a break. Oh he has a good gig.....

Hey, Guido's gig is looking better all the time!

"Playboy wants Wal-Mart women"

<http://money.cnn.com/2003/09/15/news/companies/walmart_playboy/index.htm>

"Wal-Mart employees have a reputation for being cheerful and now
Playboy.com is giving them a chance to smile for the camera," Playboy
said in a press release. "Playboy.com wants Wal-Mart's sexiest assets to
roll back their clothes and pose nude."
<http://money.cnn.com/2003/09/15/news/companies/walmart_playboy/walmart_playboy_women.01.jpg>

[gumblefump]

> If you're a
> pre-pubescent teenager who wants to be a musician, I say again, get back to
> us when you've grown up. If you're over the age of 25 and still have this
> attitude, then there's really no point in continuing, because you have
> nothing of value to say. Some people never grow up, and if that works for
> you then good for you, but for the rest of us who have to live in the real
> world, reading your post is just a waste of 45 seconds that could better
> spent somewhere else.
>

Hey, Aaron ****chop! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! I called him
"****chop"! gET IT? Huh huh hut!!! See, he called someone ****chop,
but then I called him a ****chop too!! HUH HUH HUT!!! y'all get it?
He's a ****chop! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! Hey Aaron ****chop! I bet if a
Walmart exec offered to let you be the buyer's agent for all the relo
execs and you lived in Walmart corp. hometown, you'd lunge for each
and every little Walmart dollar, scattering shattered shards of
stinking, salesman-cologne-scented fake ethic in every direction.
****CHOOOOOPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! Hey, y'all get it,
right? i'm a pretty funny guy