AM signal down street to TV station

[[email protected]]

Yet another of my cable-access-TV dilemmas:

The access TV studio wishes to use the local AM station as "audio-
under" the obligatory "bulletin board" when there is no programming on
the channel.

They once had a direct underground line (from the AM station audio
board), but lost it when the TV station moved across the street.

They then tried an AM tuner; but there is a hefty amount of RFI in the
cablecast room, where it was located. And it drifted off-freq once in
a while.

They then tried a streaming internet signal: Great "FM quality", but
1) It crashed often, and 2) The time delay was a problem for live call-
in on the AM station.

What's the best way to get the highest quailty and stable audio from
the AM station, back to the TV studio? I see several possibilities:

1) Get a really good AM tuner or radio* (such as CCrane, or RCA
Superadio?) and possibly an external antenna (any recommendations for
radio or antenna?), and find a place in the building where optimum
reception can be found. Run an output cable back to the TV cablecast
room.

*(The reason I prefer a radio over a tuner is the outputs: I have to
match the level of the tuner to the levels of the other sources
(server, live studio, DVD & tape players). With a tuner, the level is
fixed. With a radio, I can use the headphone jack in conjunction with
the volume control for a perfect match.)

2) If at all possible, I'd like to get a full bandwidth audio signal.
The TV station and the AM station are not far from each other: 3 very
small city blocks, over 3 streets, but probably no more than 800 feet.
Running a cable seems impossible, but is there some kind of wireless
transmitter system for audio that might work? There is probably a line
of sight between the roofs of the buildings.

Anybody have any great ideas?

[John Williamson]

wrote:
> Yet another of my cable-access-TV dilemmas:
>
> The access TV studio wishes to use the local AM station as "audio-
> under" the obligatory "bulletin board" when there is no programming on
> the channel.
> Anybody have any great ideas?

If you've got line of sight, a decent audio feed from the AM station,
and your budget will stand it, then a microwave or UHF link would
probably be the Rolls Royce solution. If you or someone on your staff
can solder, then there are modules avaliable that do the hard part for a
lot less than a full system costs. You do, however, trade cost for
convenience.

Otherwise, a 250mW radio microphone type transmitter/ receiver pair with
a directional antenna should do it, if it can be licenced for fixed link
use where you are.

Again, depending on budget, an ISDN or leased line link via your telco
would probably meet your needs with no maintenance requirements landed
on your plate, apart from knowing the helpline number to call when it
falls over. The cable you need is normally already in place as a spare
pair, they just need to connect it.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Arny Krueger]

> wrote in message

> Yet another of my cable-access-TV dilemmas:
>
> The access TV studio wishes to use the local AM station
> as "audio- under" the obligatory "bulletin board" when
> there is no programming on the channel.
>
> They once had a direct underground line (from the AM
> station audio board), but lost it when the TV station
> moved across the street.
>
> Anybody have any great ideas?

I don't know if it is a great idea, but how about this if it applies?

One of the greatest AM/FM/HD tuners around is this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-XDRF1HD-HD-Radio-Tuner/dp/B00168Q248

The price is *right*.

I have a few friends who own them, and they tell me that they are wonderful
for every kind of signal that they handle.

You can read more about it here:

http://theaudiocritic.com/plog/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=35&blogId=1

and chase the links - more good stuff.

[William Sommerwerck]

> One of the greatest AM/FM/HD tuners around is this one:
> http://www.amazon.com/Sony-XDRF1HD-HD-Radio-Tuner/dp/B00168Q248

This tuner has incredible sensitivity and selectivity, but not a very broad
AM passband. You should listen to it before purchase.

I used to own a Sony stereo AM Walkman. The sound was so good, it was hard
to distinguish from stereo FM. The XDR-F1HD sounds like most AM tuners --
somewhat muffled, and rather "mechanical". I would not judge it to be of
high fidelity, even by AM standards.

But if you can get one at a good price, do so. I paid a grand total of $50
for mine. * Even at $100, it's a steal. (One of buy.com's associates has it
for $75.73 + $11.39 shipping. Amazon has it for $86.14, shipping included.)

The XDR-F1HD pretty much marks the end of the component tuner. Within a few
years, virtually every "control center" will include a cheap,
high-performance DSP tuner of this sort that will add maybe $50 to the
retail price.


>
http://theaudiocritic.com/plog/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=35&blogId=1

Arny, you're actually referencing a review by Captain Psycho? He's one of
the nastiest people I ever met. On my deathbed I will regret not having
punched in the cones of the Fourier speakers at his SCES display.


> and chase the links -- more good stuff.

The best link is to a very experienced guy who thoroughly tested it. It also
shows how to force the tuner to analog reception on HD1 signals.


* buy.com had it for $100, including shipping, and iBiquity had a $50
rebate. Not bad.

[Mark]

On Sep 2, 12:18*pm, "William Sommerwerck" >
wrote:
> > One of the greatest AM/FM/HD tuners around is this one:
> >http://www.amazon.com/Sony-XDRF1HD-HD-Radio-Tuner/dp/B00168Q248
>
> This tuner has incredible sensitivity and selectivity, but not a very broad
> AM passband. You should listen to it before purchase.
>
> I used to own a Sony stereo AM Walkman. The sound was so good, it was hard
> to distinguish from stereo FM. The XDR-F1HD sounds like most AM tuners --
> somewhat muffled, and rather "mechanical". I would not judge it to be of
> high fidelity, even by AM standards.
>
> But if you can get one at a good price, do so. I paid a grand total of $50
> for mine. * Even at $100, it's a steal. (One of buy.com's associates has it
> for $75.73 + $11.39 shipping. Amazon has it for $86.14, shipping included..)
>
> The XDR-F1HD pretty much marks the end of the component tuner. Within a few
> years, virtually every "control center" will include a cheap,
> high-performance DSP tuner of this sort that will add maybe $50 to the
> retail price.
>
>
>
> http://theaudiocritic.com/plog/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=35&....
>
> Arny, you're actually referencing a review by Captain Psycho? He's one of
> the nastiest people I ever met. On my deathbed I will regret not having
> punched in the cones of the Fourier speakers at his SCES display.
>
> > and chase the links -- more good stuff.
>
> The best link is to a very experienced guy who thoroughly tested it. It also
> shows how to force the tuner to analog reception on HD1 signals.
>
> * buy.com had it for $100, including shipping, and iBiquity had a $50
> rebate. Not bad.

to the OP.

I presume you are 3 blocks from the AM radio station STUDIO and not
the transmitter...

Talk to the station and find out what they use for an STL.. (studio
transmitter link)

You may be able to get a receiver to tune to it...

If you are 3 blocks from the transmitter, well then you would not
have any problem receiving it :-)

Mark


Mark

[Arny Krueger]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in
message
>> One of the greatest AM/FM/HD tuners around is this one:
>> http://www.amazon.com/Sony-XDRF1HD-HD-Radio-Tuner/dp/B00168Q248
>
> This tuner has incredible sensitivity and selectivity,
> but not a very broad AM passband. You should listen to it
> before purchase.
>
> I used to own a Sony stereo AM Walkman. The sound was so
> good, it was hard to distinguish from stereo FM. The
> XDR-F1HD sounds like most AM tuners -- somewhat muffled,
> and rather "mechanical". I would not judge it to be of
> high fidelity, even by AM standards.

Interesting. IME even just a 5 KHz bandpass done right isn't that bad, and
8 or 10 KHz can be satisfying, even if still a little short of hi fi.

> But if you can get one at a good price, do so. I paid a
> grand total of $50 for mine. * Even at $100, it's a
> steal. (One of buy.com's associates has it for $75.73 +
> $11.39 shipping. Amazon has it for $86.14, shipping
> included.)
>
> The XDR-F1HD pretty much marks the end of the component
> tuner. Within a few years, virtually every "control
> center" will include a cheap, high-performance DSP tuner
> of this sort that will add maybe $50 to the retail price.

The intended market for the technology was arguably car radios. This
implementation looks like it is a bit too modular to be the final answer.

Since it is basically all digital, its headed for less and less chip real
estate, and far lower costs, as time passes.

[blackburst]

On Sep 2, 12:34*pm, Mark > wrote:
> On Sep 2, 12:18*pm, "William Sommerwerck" >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > > One of the greatest AM/FM/HD tuners around is this one:
> > >http://www.amazon.com/Sony-XDRF1HD-HD-Radio-Tuner/dp/B00168Q248
>
> > This tuner has incredible sensitivity and selectivity, but not a very broad
> > AM passband. You should listen to it before purchase.
>
> > I used to own a Sony stereo AM Walkman. The sound was so good, it was hard
> > to distinguish from stereo FM. The XDR-F1HD sounds like most AM tuners --
> > somewhat muffled, and rather "mechanical". I would not judge it to be of
> > high fidelity, even by AM standards.
>
> > But if you can get one at a good price, do so. I paid a grand total of $50
> > for mine. * Even at $100, it's a steal. (One of buy.com's associates has it
> > for $75.73 + $11.39 shipping. Amazon has it for $86.14, shipping included.)
>
> > The XDR-F1HD pretty much marks the end of the component tuner. Within a few
> > years, virtually every "control center" will include a cheap,
> > high-performance DSP tuner of this sort that will add maybe $50 to the
> > retail price.
>
> >http://theaudiocritic.com/plog/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=35&...
>
> > Arny, you're actually referencing a review by Captain Psycho? He's one of
> > the nastiest people I ever met. On my deathbed I will regret not having
> > punched in the cones of the Fourier speakers at his SCES display.
>
> > > and chase the links -- more good stuff.
>
> > The best link is to a very experienced guy who thoroughly tested it. It also
> > shows how to force the tuner to analog reception on HD1 signals.
>
> > * buy.com had it for $100, including shipping, and iBiquity had a $50
> > rebate. Not bad.
>
> to the OP.
>
> I presume you are 3 blocks from the AM radio station STUDIO and not
> the transmitter...
>
> Talk to the station and find out what they use for an STL.. *(studio
> transmitter link)
>
> You may be able to get a receiver to tune to it...
>
> If you are 3 blocks from the transmitter, *well then you would not
> have any problem receiving it :-)
>
> Mark
>
> Mark- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Alas...

Yes, 3 blocks from the radio studio, but 8 miles from the xmtr. AND,
the xmtr is in the direct opposite direction from the TV studio.

But that HD tuner seems interesting...

[Richard Crowley]

blackburst wrote ...
> Yet another of my cable-access-TV dilemmas:
>
> The access TV studio wishes to use the local AM station as "audio-
> under" the obligatory "bulletin board" when there is no programming on
> the channel.
>
> They once had a direct underground line (from the AM station audio
> board), but lost it when the TV station moved across the street.


If the TV station only moved across the street, can't you run a cable
back to the previous underground feed? How did they deal with
feeding the video/RF signals OUT of the station back into the cable
network?

> They then tried an AM tuner; but there is a hefty amount of RFI in the
> cablecast room, where it was located. And it drifted off-freq once in
> a while.

So put the tuner in the attic, by a window, in another room , etc .etc.

If it is really a tuner, does it have an antenna connection? What kind?
(a wire hanging out, a screw terminal, two screw termnials, a coaxial
connector or some kind like an F-connector???) By all means you
should use an external antenna. An AM tuner with a built-in antenna
sitting in any kind of equipment room is pretty much the worst-case
scenario.

> They then tried a streaming internet signal: Great "FM quality", but
> 1) It crashed often, and 2) The time delay was a problem for live call-
> in on the AM station.

Is the AM station so weak that people listen to it on their cable
TV instead of OTA? Something seems screwy about that. Or maybe
you left out some other details that would explain it.

> What's the best way to get the highest quailty and stable audio from
> the AM station, back to the TV studio? I see several possibilities:
>
> 1) Get a really good AM tuner or radio* (such as CCrane, or RCA
> Superadio?) and possibly an external antenna (any recommendations for
> radio or antenna?), and find a place in the building where optimum
> reception can be found. Run an output cable back to the TV cablecast
> room.
>
> *(The reason I prefer a radio over a tuner is the outputs: I have to
> match the level of the tuner to the levels of the other sources
> (server, live studio, DVD & tape players). With a tuner, the level is
> fixed. With a radio, I can use the headphone jack in conjunction with
> the volume control for a perfect match.)

C.Crane has lots of AM antenna options, both interior and exterior.
And any decent ham radio operator has a copy of the ARRL Antenna
Handbook. AM antennas are not high-tech. They've been doing it for
almost 100 years.

> 2) If at all possible, I'd like to get a full bandwidth audio signal.
> The TV station and the AM station are not far from each other: 3 very
> small city blocks, over 3 streets, but probably no more than 800 feet.
> Running a cable seems impossible, but is there some kind of wireless
> transmitter system for audio that might work? There is probably a line
> of sight between the roofs of the buildings.

But where is the AM *transmitter*? How far away? Line of sight?
How good a signal do you get from the AM station on your car radio
in the parking lot? Car radios are actually pretty good because they
have to work inside a Faraday shield (the metal car body) and deal
with lots of RFI from the engine, etc. And old car radios are practically
free from those places that install after-market fancy car stereos, etc.

[William Sommerwerck]

>> I used to own a Sony stereo AM Walkman. The sound was so
>> good, it was hard to distinguish from stereo FM. The
>> XDR-F1HD sounds like most AM tuners -- somewhat muffled,
>> and rather "mechanical". I would not judge it to be of
>> high fidelity, even by AM standards.

> Interesting. IME even just a 5 KHz bandpass done right isn't that bad,
> and 8 or 10 KHz can be satisfying, even if still a little short of hi fi.

Agreed. The problem is that this tuner isn't even that good on AM. Check the
review again.

[GregS[_3_]]

In article >, "William Sommerwerck" > wrote:
>>> I used to own a Sony stereo AM Walkman. The sound was so
>>> good, it was hard to distinguish from stereo FM. The
>>> XDR-F1HD sounds like most AM tuners -- somewhat muffled,
>>> and rather "mechanical". I would not judge it to be of
>>> high fidelity, even by AM standards.
>
>> Interesting. IME even just a 5 KHz bandpass done right isn't that bad,
>> and 8 or 10 KHz can be satisfying, even if still a little short of hi fi.
>
>Agreed. The problem is that this tuner isn't even that good on AM. Check the
>review again.


I have in reserve a fairly modern by some standards, and vintage by others, a 70's HH Scott receiver
and an inexpensive one at that. The AM is fantastic. Among the best I ever heard.

Those old crystal receivers had excellant sound.

greg

[William Sommerwerck]

> I have in reserve a fairly modern by some standards,
> and vintage by others, a 70's HH Scott receiver
> and an inexpensive one at that. The AM is fantastic.
> Among the best I ever heard.

The problem is that it's hard to make an AM tuner with a flat bandpass --
you can't use limiting!

[Don Pearce]

On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 07:49:20 -0700 (PDT), "
> wrote:

>Yet another of my cable-access-TV dilemmas:
>
>The access TV studio wishes to use the local AM station as "audio-
>under" the obligatory "bulletin board" when there is no programming on
>the channel.
>
>They once had a direct underground line (from the AM station audio
>board), but lost it when the TV station moved across the street.
>
>They then tried an AM tuner; but there is a hefty amount of RFI in the
>cablecast room, where it was located. And it drifted off-freq once in
>a while.
>
>They then tried a streaming internet signal: Great "FM quality", but
>1) It crashed often, and 2) The time delay was a problem for live call-
>in on the AM station.
>
>What's the best way to get the highest quailty and stable audio from
>the AM station, back to the TV studio? I see several possibilities:
>
>1) Get a really good AM tuner or radio* (such as CCrane, or RCA
>Superadio?) and possibly an external antenna (any recommendations for
>radio or antenna?), and find a place in the building where optimum
>reception can be found. Run an output cable back to the TV cablecast
>room.
>
>*(The reason I prefer a radio over a tuner is the outputs: I have to
>match the level of the tuner to the levels of the other sources
>(server, live studio, DVD & tape players). With a tuner, the level is
>fixed. With a radio, I can use the headphone jack in conjunction with
>the volume control for a perfect match.)
>
>2) If at all possible, I'd like to get a full bandwidth audio signal.
>The TV station and the AM station are not far from each other: 3 very
>small city blocks, over 3 streets, but probably no more than 800 feet.
>Running a cable seems impossible, but is there some kind of wireless
>transmitter system for audio that might work? There is probably a line
>of sight between the roofs of the buildings.
>
>Anybody have any great ideas?

Yes, a crystal set. I'm serious. Wind a coil of about 50 turns on a
frame about a foot square, and connect the variable condenser from an
old radio across it. Detect the signal with a Germanium or Schottky
diode and the job is done. The signal is local, so it will be huge.
There are no oscillators in your radio so there will be no night-time
whistles. Also the bandwidth is likely to be good enough to grab
everything the station is broadcasting. If you do hear any local
interference, move it away a bit - you can afford a long connection.

Orient the coil, mounted vertically on edge, for maximum smoke and you
are good to go. Total reliability guaranteed. The transmitter is
local, so there will be no fading to compensate for.

d
--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

[blackburst]

On Sep 2, 12:40*pm, "Richard Crowley" > wrote:
> blackburst wrote ...
>
> > Yet another of my cable-access-TV dilemmas:
>
> > The access TV studio wishes to use the local AM station as "audio-
> > under" the obligatory "bulletin board" when there is no programming on
> > the channel.
>
> > They once had a direct underground line (from the AM station audio
> > board), but lost it when the TV station moved across the street.
>
> If the TV station only moved across the street, can't you run a cable
> back to the previous underground feed? *How did they deal with
> feeding the video/RF signals OUT of the station back into the cable
> network?

The cable used to come up through the raised floor in the cablcast
room. The building was sold, and new there's an office with carpet
over a solid concrete floor. I'm told that all the incoming cables
were "snipped off."

>
> > They then tried an AM tuner; but there is a hefty amount of RFI in the
> > cablecast room, where it was located. And it drifted off-freq once in
> > a while.
>
> So put the tuner in the attic, by a window, in another room , etc .etc.
>
> If it is really a tuner, does it have an antenna connection? *What kind?
> (a wire hanging out, a screw terminal, two screw termnials, a coaxial
> connector or some kind like an F-connector???) By all means you
> should use an external antenna. An AM tuner with a built-in antenna
> sitting in any kind of equipment room is pretty much the worst-case
> scenario.

True. If I go with a tuner, I'll have to find a better room, give it
an external antenna and run a ling cable!

>
> > They then tried a streaming internet signal: Great "FM quality", but
> > 1) It crashed often, and 2) The time delay was a problem for live call-
> > in on the AM station.
>
> Is the AM station so weak that people listen to it on their cable
> TV instead of OTA? *Something seems screwy about that. Or maybe
> you left out some other details that would explain it.

No, just as I explained. Apparently, it's a convenience for cable
viewers. No need to drag out a physical radio for local radio, just
tune to channel 9 on the TV.

Some years ago, I used local police/fire radio for audio under. Wildly
popular! And when I put "real" programming on at night, people would
call and complain that I was interrupting their police radio! (It was
eventually dropped for political reasons.)

>
> > What's the best way to get the highest quailty and stable audio from
> > the AM station, back to the TV studio? I see several possibilities:
>
> > 1) Get a really good AM tuner or radio* (such as CCrane, or RCA
> > Superadio?) and possibly an external antenna (any recommendations for
> > radio or antenna?), and find a place in the building where optimum
> > reception can be found. Run an output cable back to the TV cablecast
> > room.
>
> > *(The reason I prefer a radio over a tuner is the outputs: I have to
> > match the level of the tuner to the levels of the other sources
> > (server, live studio, DVD & tape players). With a tuner, the level is
> > fixed. With a radio, I can use the headphone jack in conjunction with
> > the volume control for a perfect match.)
>
> C.Crane has lots of AM antenna options, both interior and exterior.
> And any decent ham radio operator has a copy of the ARRL Antenna
> Handbook. AM antennas are not high-tech. They've been doing it for
> almost 100 years.

A local mom/pop electronics store has a lot of antennas, too. I'll try
one.

>
> > 2) If at all possible, I'd like to get a full bandwidth audio signal.
> > The TV station and the AM station are not far from each other: 3 very
> > small city blocks, over 3 streets, but probably no more than 800 feet.
> > Running a cable seems impossible, but is there some kind of wireless
> > transmitter system for audio that might work? There is probably a line
> > of sight between the roofs of the buildings.
>
> But where is the AM *transmitter*? *How far away? *Line of sight?
> How good a signal do you get from the AM station on your car radio
> in the parking lot? *Car radios are actually pretty good because they
> have to work inside a Faraday shield (the metal car body) and deal
> with lots of RFI from the engine, etc. *And old car radios are practically
> free from those places that install after-market fancy car stereos, etc.

As noted elsewhere, 8 miles away. I can get a good signal, but it's
hard to get one inside a building with lots of TV and network wiring.

[Arny Krueger]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in
message
>>> I used to own a Sony stereo AM Walkman. The sound was so
>>> good, it was hard to distinguish from stereo FM. The
>>> XDR-F1HD sounds like most AM tuners -- somewhat muffled,
>>> and rather "mechanical". I would not judge it to be of
>>> high fidelity, even by AM standards.
>
>> Interesting. IME even just a 5 KHz bandpass done right
>> isn't that bad, and 8 or 10 KHz can be satisfying, even
>> if still a little short of hi fi.
>
> Agreed. The problem is that this tuner isn't even that
> good on AM. Check the review again.

I didn't get that, and I don't get that from the other owners, one of whom
has been an engineer for a AM/FM station.

No matter what you say about the sound, the little box appears to be rock
solid. Won't drift off like the OP experienced before.

[Richard Webb[_3_]]

On Wed 2037-Sep-02 10:49, writes:
> Yet another of my cable-access-TV dilemmas:

> The access TV studio wishes to use the local AM station as "audio-
> under" the obligatory "bulletin board" when there is no programming
> on the channel.
<snip>
> 2) If at all possible, I'd like to get a full bandwidth audio
> signal. The TV station and the AM station are not far from each
> other: 3 very small city blocks, over 3 streets, but probably no
> more than 800 feet. Running a cable seems impossible, but is there
> some kind of wireless transmitter system for audio that might work?
> There is probably a line of sight between the roofs of the
> buildings.


HEre's a thought for you. ASk the AM station what they're
using to get the audio from their studios to the
transmitter. IF transmitter isn't located on site it's
going by phone line, or a studio to transmitter link.

IF an rf stl is in use, and it's going to the transmitter
and beaming the direction of your studios then you're in
luck.

YOu're going to have the same problem with a dedicated
receiver such as would be used for the stl signal though.
Sounds to me like you need a small mixer to match different
sources.

Regards,
Richard
--
| Remove .my.foot for email
| via Waldo's Place USA Fidonet<->Internet Gateway Site
| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.

[Scott Dorsey]

> wrote:
>
>1) Get a really good AM tuner or radio* (such as CCrane, or RCA
>Superadio?) and possibly an external antenna (any recommendations for
>radio or antenna?), and find a place in the building where optimum
>reception can be found. Run an output cable back to the TV cablecast
>room.

Works well. A long-wire antenna will do nicely. Incidentally, I recommend
the new $90 Sony HD radio tuner. The RF section on it is remarkably good.
It is shielded pretty well for a consumer product though it's not up to
commercial standards.

If you actually want the best possible AM performance, you probably want
one of the WWII vintage morale receivers, like the Scott SLRM or the
REP. They were designed for very low emission and very good shielding
and they can be used right on top of a massive noise source without
any leakage. Audio quality is excellent.

Something like the Superradio will run you into problems because the
internal shielding is not so good.... it will pick up local noise sources
even with no antenna connected.

>2) If at all possible, I'd like to get a full bandwidth audio signal.
>The TV station and the AM station are not far from each other: 3 very
>small city blocks, over 3 streets, but probably no more than 800 feet.
>Running a cable seems impossible, but is there some kind of wireless
>transmitter system for audio that might work? There is probably a line
>of sight between the roofs of the buildings.

The AM transmitter site or the AM studio site? Or is it both? If the
AM station is using a 950 MHz STL, you can probably receive the leakage
from the STL transmitter directly at the TV studio, and the quality of
the STL will be a whole lot better than the on-air quality.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

In article >,
William Sommerwerck > wrote:
>>> I used to own a Sony stereo AM Walkman. The sound was so
>>> good, it was hard to distinguish from stereo FM. The
>>> XDR-F1HD sounds like most AM tuners -- somewhat muffled,
>>> and rather "mechanical". I would not judge it to be of
>>> high fidelity, even by AM standards.
>
>> Interesting. IME even just a 5 KHz bandpass done right isn't that bad,
>> and 8 or 10 KHz can be satisfying, even if still a little short of hi fi.
>
>Agreed. The problem is that this tuner isn't even that good on AM. Check the
>review again.

It's not THAT bad. I think they went for filter parameters that were
narrower than I would have chosen, and they seem to be using some sort of
adaptive filter that adds some annoying artifacts. They took the now-common
approach that reducing QRM was more important than audio quality on AM, and
while I don't necessarily agree with that, I understand where it comes from.

The original poster's major issue is getting a receiver that is properly
shielded and won't be getting noise from adjacent equipment in the rack.
Everything else is secondary to that.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

William Sommerwerck > wrote:
>> I have in reserve a fairly modern by some standards,
>> and vintage by others, a 70's HH Scott receiver
>> and an inexpensive one at that. The AM is fantastic.
>> Among the best I ever heard.
>
>The problem is that it's hard to make an AM tuner with a flat bandpass --
>you can't use limiting!

It's easy today... we digitize the IF and then do the bandlimiting in
software. Take the absolute value and bandlimit again and you have your
baseband audio.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[William Sommerwerck]

>>> I have in reserve a fairly modern by some standards,
>>> and vintage by others, a 70's HH Scott receiver
>>> and an inexpensive one at that. The AM is fantastic.
>>> Among the best I ever heard.

>> The problem is that it's hard to make an AM tuner with
>> a flat bandpass -- you can't use limiting!

> It's easy today... we digitize the IF and then do the bandlimiting in
> software. Take the absolute value and bandlimit again and you have
> your baseband audio.

Then why does the Sony XDR-HDF1 have such lousy AM response?

[Scott Dorsey]

William Sommerwerck > wrote:
>>>> I have in reserve a fairly modern by some standards,
>>>> and vintage by others, a 70's HH Scott receiver
>>>> and an inexpensive one at that. The AM is fantastic.
>>>> Among the best I ever heard.
>
>>> The problem is that it's hard to make an AM tuner with
>>> a flat bandpass -- you can't use limiting!
>
>> It's easy today... we digitize the IF and then do the bandlimiting in
>> software. Take the absolute value and bandlimit again and you have
>> your baseband audio.
>
>Then why does the Sony XDR-HDF1 have such lousy AM response?

Because, as I pointed out early, the folks at Sony decided that reducing
perceived noise was more important than improving bandwidth. That was
strictly a design decision.

They are also doing some kind of adaptive filtering for noise reduction,
which adds some nastiness at high frequencies.

It would be nice if it had a switch on it so you could select the passband
width, like communications receivers do. But what do you want for a hundred
bucks?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."