audio computer down (somewhat off topc)

[Jack Jarmush]

hello good people, this is off topic but ive tried everything almost;
been up 2 nghts going crazy im desperate and tech forums qre not
replying and you guys are the best group i know of on the net and have
helped often so if you can help with this even though its not audio
related (although ultimately it is) it would be very appreciated.
I reformatted my HDD to renstall windows xp but now it wont boot from
the cd rom, i set bios to boot from cd rom but it does not and i just
get a messeage to "press a key to reboot" then the loop starts again,
bios reckognizes the HDD and is in primary master ide, cd rom is
secondary master, i tried unplugging and replugging the ide cables,
tried to boot from xp disk in a vista machine but the "intall windows
xp" option is greyed out so i cant verify if the cd is good or not, it
is readable i can explore the contents, any advise what to try next?
-rob

[Bigguy[_2_]]

Jack Jarmush wrote:
> hello good people, this is off topic but ive tried everything almost;
> been up 2 nghts going crazy im desperate and tech forums qre not
> replying and you guys are the best group i know of on the net and have
> helped often so if you can help with this even though its not audio
> related (although ultimately it is) it would be very appreciated.
> I reformatted my HDD to renstall windows xp but now it wont boot from
> the cd rom, i set bios to boot from cd rom but it does not and i just
> get a messeage to "press a key to reboot" then the loop starts again,
> bios reckognizes the HDD and is in primary master ide, cd rom is
> secondary master, i tried unplugging and replugging the ide cables,
> tried to boot from xp disk in a vista machine but the "intall windows
> xp" option is greyed out so i cant verify if the cd is good or not, it
> is readable i can explore the contents, any advise what to try next?
> -rob
Are you using a genuine (?) Bootable XP disk??

Try booting off a 'Live CD' of Linux - e.g. Ubuntu; this will prove
that the CD/DVD drive is working OK.

It sounds like the XP CD is not bootable OR the CD/DVD drive is broken
or not plugged correctly..

Guy

[Arny Krueger]

"Bigguy" > wrote in message

> Jack Jarmush wrote:
>> hello good people, this is off topic but ive tried
>> everything almost; been up 2 nghts going crazy im
>> desperate and tech forums qre not replying and you guys
>> are the best group i know of on the net and have helped
>> often so if you can help with this even though its not
>> audio related (although ultimately it is) it would be
>> very appreciated. I reformatted my HDD to renstall
>> windows xp but now it wont boot from the cd rom, i set
>> bios to boot from cd rom but it does not and i just get
>> a messeage to "press a key to reboot" then the loop
>> starts again, bios reckognizes the HDD and is in primary
>> master ide, cd rom is secondary master, i tried
>> unplugging and replugging the ide cables, tried to boot
>> from xp disk in a vista machine but the "intall windows
>> xp" option is greyed out so i cant verify if the cd is
>> good or not, it is readable i can explore the contents,
>> any advise what to try next? -rob
> Are you using a genuine (?) Bootable XP disk??
>
> Try booting off a 'Live CD' of Linux - e.g. Ubuntu;
> this will prove that the CD/DVD drive is working OK.
>
> It sounds like the XP CD is not bootable OR the CD/DVD
> drive is broken or not plugged correctly..
>

Good basic advice.

Probably the easiest way to get a bootable CD to test PC equipment with is
to download Maxblast . Maxblast is freeware whose full function is limited
to systems with Maxtor, Seagate, or other corporate hardware from Seagate.
But no matter whose hard drive you have, it boots and runs in a very clearly
identifiable way, and you can use it to test the booting, mouse and keyboard
operations of a PC. At this point it is basically Acronis backup and disk
tools.

http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.jsp?locale=en-US&name=MaxBlast_5&vgnextoid=7add8b9c4a8ff010VgnVCM100000dd04090aRCRD

Obviously, you need a PC to download it, and a CD writer to make the
bootable disc, but it will at least boot in a very clear and identifiable
way on any reasonable PC system.

[Mike Rivers]

Jack Jarmush wrote:

> I reformatted my HDD to renstall windows xp but now it wont boot from
> the cd rom, i set bios to boot from cd rom but it does not and i just
> get a messeage to "press a key to reboot" then the loop starts again,
> bios reckognizes the HDD and is in primary master ide, cd rom is
> secondary master,

How did you set it to boot from the CD? Check the boot order in the
CMOS setup and make sure that CD is first on the list. It sounds like
it's bypassing the CD, trying to boot from the hard drive, and it isn't
seeing an operating system.

It's possible that either your CD drive has failed, or that your CD is
no good. Does your computer have a floppy disk drive? If so, you can
try booting from that. You can get the Microsoft setup floppy installers
from http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=310994


--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me here:
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
)

[Jack Jarmush]

thanks Arny, i tried the Maxblast cd but same problem, i also tried to
boot from an XP boot cd which i dowloaded and it is reckognized
because it asks for a missing system 32 file so that makes me thnk the
cd rom is working but why then does the Maxblast cd not work; i
downloaded the Maxblastsetup.exe file and burned it to a data disk.
rob



On Sep 1, 2:41*pm, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> "Bigguy" > wrote in message
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Jack Jarmush wrote:
> >> hello good people, this is off topic but ive tried
> >> everything almost; been up 2 nghts going crazy im
> >> desperate and tech forums qre not replying and you guys
> >> are the best group i know of on the net and have helped
> >> often so if you can help with this even though its not
> >> *audio related (although ultimately it is) it would be
> >> very appreciated. I reformatted my HDD to renstall
> >> windows xp but now it wont boot from the cd rom, i set
> >> bios to boot from cd rom but it does not and i just get
> >> a messeage to "press a key to reboot" then the loop
> >> starts again, bios reckognizes the HDD and is in primary
> >> master ide, cd rom is secondary master, i tried
> >> unplugging and replugging the ide cables, tried to boot
> >> from xp disk in a vista machine but the "intall windows
> >> xp" option is greyed out so i cant verify if the cd is
> >> good or not, it is readable i can explore the contents,
> >> any advise what to try next? -rob
> > Are you using a genuine (?) Bootable XP disk??
>
> > *Try booting off a 'Live CD' of Linux *- e.g. Ubuntu;
> > this will prove that the CD/DVD drive is working OK.
>
> > It sounds like the XP CD is not bootable OR the CD/DVD
> > drive is broken or not plugged correctly..
>
> Good basic advice.
>
> Probably the easiest way to get a bootable CD to test PC equipment with is
> to download Maxblast . Maxblast is freeware whose full function is limited
> to systems with Maxtor, Seagate, or other corporate hardware from *Seagate.
> But no matter whose hard drive you have, it boots and runs in a very clearly
> identifiable way, and you can use it to test the booting, mouse and keyboard
> operations of a PC. *At this point it is basically Acronis backup and disk
> tools.
>
> http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.jsp?locale=en-US&name=MaxBlast_5&vg....
>
> Obviously, you need a PC to download it, and a CD writer to make the
> bootable disc, but it will at least boot in a very clear and identifiable
> way on any reasonable PC system.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Jack Jarmush]

i tried to boot the windows xp cd on another com and it doesnt boot
neither so i guess its the cd.

On Sep 1, 5:40*pm, Jack Jarmush > wrote:
> thanks Arny, i tried the Maxblast cd but same problem, i also tried to
> boot from an XP boot cd which i dowloaded and it is reckognized
> because it asks for a missing system 32 file so that makes me thnk the
> cd rom is working but why then does the Maxblast cd not work; i
> downloaded the Maxblastsetup.exe file and burned it to a data disk.
> rob
>
> On Sep 1, 2:41*pm, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Bigguy" > wrote in message
>
>
>
> > > Jack Jarmush wrote:
> > >> hello good people, this is off topic but ive tried
> > >> everything almost; been up 2 nghts going crazy im
> > >> desperate and tech forums qre not replying and you guys
> > >> are the best group i know of on the net and have helped
> > >> often so if you can help with this even though its not
> > >> *audio related (although ultimately it is) it would be
> > >> very appreciated. I reformatted my HDD to renstall
> > >> windows xp but now it wont boot from the cd rom, i set
> > >> bios to boot from cd rom but it does not and i just get
> > >> a messeage to "press a key to reboot" then the loop
> > >> starts again, bios reckognizes the HDD and is in primary
> > >> master ide, cd rom is secondary master, i tried
> > >> unplugging and replugging the ide cables, tried to boot
> > >> from xp disk in a vista machine but the "intall windows
> > >> xp" option is greyed out so i cant verify if the cd is
> > >> good or not, it is readable i can explore the contents,
> > >> any advise what to try next? -rob
> > > Are you using a genuine (?) Bootable XP disk??
>
> > > *Try booting off a 'Live CD' of Linux *- e.g. Ubuntu;
> > > this will prove that the CD/DVD drive is working OK.
>
> > > It sounds like the XP CD is not bootable OR the CD/DVD
> > > drive is broken or not plugged correctly..
>
> > Good basic advice.
>
> > Probably the easiest way to get a bootable CD to test PC equipment with is
> > to download Maxblast . Maxblast is freeware whose full function is limited
> > to systems with Maxtor, Seagate, or other corporate hardware from *Seagate.
> > But no matter whose hard drive you have, it boots and runs in a very clearly
> > identifiable way, and you can use it to test the booting, mouse and keyboard
> > operations of a PC. *At this point it is basically Acronis backup and disk
> > tools.
>
> >http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.jsp?locale=en-US&name=MaxBlast_5&vg...
>
> > Obviously, you need a PC to download it, and a CD writer to make the
> > bootable disc, but it will at least boot in a very clear and identifiable
> > way on any reasonable PC system.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Arny Krueger]

"Jack Jarmush" > wrote in message

> thanks Arny, i tried the Maxblast cd but same problem, i
> also tried to boot from an XP boot cd which i dowloaded
> and it is reckognized because it asks for a missing
> system 32 file so that makes me thnk the cd rom is
> working

That kind of error is indicative of a flakey CD reader or a poor quality or
dirty or scratched CD. The system32 file comes up missing because the CD
reader can't read that part of the CD.

What I do at this point is look at the CD and see if it is dirty or
scratched. If it is not dirty or scratched, then I find a USB CD reader that
is known to be good and try it.

>but why then does the Maxblast cd not work; i
> downloaded the Maxblastsetup.exe file and burned it to a
> data disk. rob

That's not how you do it.

(1) Download Maxbastsetup.exe which you did.

(2) Install Maxblast on the PC by running MaxBlastsetup.exe .

(3) Then use the Maxblast program that you installed with MaxBlastsetup.exe
to burn a bootable CD with bootable Maxblast on it.

(4) Boot the bootable Maxblast CD that you make with the program that
maxplastsetup.exe installs on your hard drive.

You can download http://www.seagate.com/support/maxblast/mb_ug.en.pdf which
is the instruction book.

Read chapters 2 and 7.

[Geoff]

Jack Jarmush wrote:
> hello good people, this is off topic but ive tried everything almost;
> been up 2 nghts going crazy im desperate and tech forums qre not
> replying and you guys are the best group i know of on the net and have
> helped often so if you can help with this even though its not audio
> related (although ultimately it is) it would be very appreciated.
> I reformatted my HDD to renstall windows xp but now it wont boot from
> the cd rom, i set bios to boot from cd rom but it does not and i just
> get a messeage to "press a key to reboot" then the loop starts again,
> bios reckognizes the HDD and is in primary master ide, cd rom is
> secondary master, i tried unplugging and replugging the ide cables,
> tried to boot from xp disk in a vista machine but the "intall windows
> xp" option is greyed out so i cant verify if the cd is good or not, it
> is readable i can explore the contents, any advise what to try next?
> -rob

Maybe your computer is actually broken, or CD-ROM at least....

geoff

[Jack Jarmush]

On Sep 1, 7:04*pm, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> "Jack Jarmush" > wrote in message
>
>
>
> > thanks Arny, i tried the Maxblast cd but same problem, i
> > also tried to boot from an XP boot cd which i dowloaded
> > and it is reckognized because it asks for a missing
> > system 32 file so that makes me thnk the cd rom is
> > working
>
> That kind of error is indicative of a flakey CD reader or a poor quality or
> dirty or scratched CD. The system32 file comes up missing because the CD
> reader can't read that part of the CD.
>
> What I do at this point is look at the CD and see if it is dirty or
> scratched. If it is not dirty or scratched, then I find a USB CD reader that
> is known to be good and try it.
>
> >but why then does the Maxblast cd not work; i
> > downloaded the Maxblastsetup.exe file and burned it to a
> > data disk. rob
>
> That's not how you do it.
>
> (1) Download Maxbastsetup.exe which you did.
>
> (2) Install Maxblast on the PC by running MaxBlastsetup.exe .
>
> (3) Then use the Maxblast program that you installed with MaxBlastsetup.exe
> to burn a bootable CD with bootable Maxblast on it.
>
> (4) Boot the bootable Maxblast CD that you make with the program that
> maxplastsetup.exe installs on your hard drive.
>
> You can downloadhttp://www.seagate.com/support/maxblast/mb_ug.en.pdf*which
> is the instruction book.
>
> Read chapters 2 and 7.

thanks Arno, did it and the MaxBlast cd booted, so i guess the wndows
cd i have is not bootable.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jack Jarmush" > wrote in message

> On Sep 1, 7:04 pm, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>> "Jack Jarmush" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>>
>>> thanks Arny, i tried the Maxblast cd but same problem, i
>>> also tried to boot from an XP boot cd which i dowloaded
>>> and it is reckognized because it asks for a missing
>>> system 32 file so that makes me thnk the cd rom is
>>> working
>>
>> That kind of error is indicative of a flakey CD reader
>> or a poor quality or dirty or scratched CD. The system32
>> file comes up missing because the CD reader can't read
>> that part of the CD.
>>
>> What I do at this point is look at the CD and see if it
>> is dirty or scratched. If it is not dirty or scratched,
>> then I find a USB CD reader that is known to be good and
>> try it.
>>
>>> but why then does the Maxblast cd not work; i
>>> downloaded the Maxblastsetup.exe file and burned it to a
>>> data disk. rob
>>
>> That's not how you do it.
>>
>> (1) Download Maxbastsetup.exe which you did.
>>
>> (2) Install Maxblast on the PC by running
>> MaxBlastsetup.exe .
>>
>> (3) Then use the Maxblast program that you installed
>> with MaxBlastsetup.exe to burn a bootable CD with
>> bootable Maxblast on it.
>>
>> (4) Boot the bootable Maxblast CD that you make with the
>> program that maxplastsetup.exe installs on your hard
>> drive.
>>
>> You can
>> downloadhttp://www.seagate.com/support/maxblast/mb_ug.en.pdf
>> which is the instruction book.
>>
>> Read chapters 2 and 7.
>
> thanks Arno, did it and the MaxBlast cd booted, so i
> guess the wndows cd i have is not bootable.

Roger that, good buddy! ;-)

[Sean Conolly]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Bigguy" > wrote in message
>
>> Jack Jarmush wrote:
>> Try booting off a 'Live CD' of Linux - e.g. Ubuntu;
>> this will prove that the CD/DVD drive is working OK.
>>
>> It sounds like the XP CD is not bootable OR the CD/DVD
>> drive is broken or not plugged correctly..
>>
>
> Good basic advice.
>
> Probably the easiest way to get a bootable CD to test PC equipment with is
> to download Maxblast .

I disagree. It doesn't take anymore time to make a Ubuntu disk than anything
else, and it will actually boot up to a fully operable system with complete
with all the Linux utilities.

If it's boots all the way to the Ubuntu desktop then the CD drive, BIOS, and
basic system are fine, and the XP disk has a problem. If not, it's either
the bios or the CD-Rom or cables.

Sean

[Arny Krueger]

"Sean Conolly" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Bigguy" > wrote in message
>>
>>> Jack Jarmush wrote:
>>> Try booting off a 'Live CD' of Linux - e.g. Ubuntu;
>>> this will prove that the CD/DVD drive is working OK.
>>>
>>> It sounds like the XP CD is not bootable OR the CD/DVD
>>> drive is broken or not plugged correctly..
>>>
>>
>> Good basic advice.
>>
>> Probably the easiest way to get a bootable CD to test PC
>> equipment with is to download Maxblast .

> I disagree. It doesn't take anymore time to make a Ubuntu
> disk than anything else, and it will actually boot up to
> a fully operable system with complete with all the Linux
> utilities.

I'll believe that when you post the wall-clock times confirming it after you
did it both ways.

In both cases, start with a Windows PC on the web with a burner, a burnable
CD, and nothing else.

BTW, the OP took my advice and has already determined the source of his
problem - a bad XP boot disk.

[2leftears]

On Sep 2, 7:46*am, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> "Sean Conolly" > wrote in message
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> "Bigguy" > wrote in message
>
> >>> Jack Jarmush wrote:
> >>> *Try booting off a 'Live CD' of Linux *- e.g. Ubuntu;
> >>> this will prove that the CD/DVD drive is working OK.
>
> >>> It sounds like the XP CD is not bootable OR the CD/DVD
> >>> drive is broken or not plugged correctly..
>
> >> Good basic advice.
>
> >> Probably the easiest way to get a bootable CD to test PC
> >> equipment with is to download Maxblast .
> > I disagree. It doesn't take anymore time to make a Ubuntu
> > disk than anything else, and it will actually boot up to
> > a fully operable system with complete with all the Linux
> > utilities.
>
> I'll believe that when you post the wall-clock times confirming it after you
> did it both ways.
>
> In both cases, start with a Windows PC on the web with a burner, a burnable
> CD, and nothing else.
>
> BTW, the OP took my advice and has already determined the source of his
> problem - a bad XP boot disk.

Jack, I can offer no remedy for you computer, I am a Mac person. My
Mac Pro Quad core computer has been down for
over a week and I think I am going mad. Shop can not find the problem.
Meantime I am losing business as well as my mind.
Condolences. www.bryanthamesmusic.com

[Mike Rivers]

On Sep 2, 8:06 am, "Sean Conolly" > wrote:

> It doesn't take anymore time to make a Ubuntu disk than anything
> else, and it will actually boot up to a fully operable system with complete
> with all the Linux utilities.
>
> If it's boots all the way to the Ubuntu desktop then the CD drive, BIOS, and
> basic system are fine, and the XP disk has a problem. If not, it's either
> the bios or the CD-Rom or cables.

I had one brief and ultimately aborted attempt to run Ubuntu. The
short of it is that there were a couple of drivers in the distribution
that I had which weren't compatible with my (fairly normal, I thought)
hardware, the CD drive among them. This isn't the kind of potential
problem that someone having trouble booting from a CD should risk.

MaxBlast is as good a boot test as any. If Jack doesn't live on a
desert island, he can probably find a friend or neighbor who has a CD
left over from upgrading a computer.

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Jack Jarmush wrote:

> hello good people, this is off topic but ive tried everything almost;
> been up 2 nghts going crazy im desperate and tech forums qre not
> replying and you guys are the best group i know of on the net and have
> helped often so if you can help with this even though its not audio
> related (although ultimately it is) it would be very appreciated.

OK ...

> I reformatted my HDD to renstall windows xp but now it wont boot from
> the cd rom, i set bios to boot from cd rom but it does not and i just
> get a messeage to "press a key to reboot" then the loop starts again,
> bios reckognizes the HDD and is in primary master ide, cd rom is
> secondary master, i tried unplugging and replugging the ide cables,

Not all windows cd-roms are bootable, my recollection is that oems and full
versions are, but updates are not.

> tried to boot from xp disk in a vista machine but the "intall windows
> xp" option is greyed out so i cant verify if the cd is good or not, it
> is readable i can explore the contents, any advise what to try next?

A windows 9x bootdisk. It is downloadable from somewhere on the net -
bootdisk.com probably but I have NOT tested that what they offer is what
they say it is - or make the three xp bootfloppies from the cd, the latter
takes more time but gives you the smoothest install, my default choice is
the 9x bootdisk and to create the first disk partition from it, but my
reaasons for doing that probably do not apply for your situation.

> -rob

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 10:17:30 -0700 (PDT), Mike Rivers
> wrote:

>I had one brief and ultimately aborted attempt to run Ubuntu. The
>short of it is that there were a couple of drivers in the distribution
>that I had which weren't compatible with my (fairly normal, I thought)
>hardware, the CD drive among them. This isn't the kind of potential
>problem that someone having trouble booting from a CD should risk.

Me too. I find Knoppix occasionally useful for rescuing a disk. It
runs on my older computers, but neither of my newer ones. I could
probably find out why. But I'm a Windows-head and a Cubase-head, I
don't particularly want to become a Linux-head. Maybe if a killer
application showed up....

[Jack Jarmush]

On Sep 3, 11:30*am, Laurence Payne > wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 10:17:30 -0700 (PDT), Mike Rivers
>
> > wrote:
> >I had one brief and *ultimately aborted attempt to run Ubuntu. The
> >short of it is that there were a couple of drivers in the distribution
> >that I had which weren't compatible with my (fairly normal, I thought)
> >hardware, the CD drive among them. This isn't the kind of potential
> >problem that someone having trouble booting from a CD should risk.
>
> Me too. *I find Knoppix occasionally useful for rescuing a disk. *It
> runs on my older computers, but neither of my newer ones. *I could
> probably find out why. *But I'm a Windows-head and a Cubase-head, I
> don't particularly want to become a Linux-head. *Maybe if a killer
> application showed up....

Well i have windows up and running but now (the cd i had was not
bootable) have a problem with the new 1TB HDD i bought to store audio
files. After buying and returning a shabby external usb enclosure i
bought a pci sata card but couldn't get that to work then i noticed
that i do have sata on my motherboard ( Asus P4G8X deluxe) ! i plugged
the new HDD into the sata plug and connected the power cables to the
HDD and booted up, bios recognized the new HDD but then just hangs
there. i tried to press f4 or ctl+s to try and access raid utility but
nothing. I downloaded the bios update driver from the Asus website but
don't know how to use it. Can any of you smart audio.pro people help
me with advice to go further. thanks, -Jack

[Jack Jarmush]

> Well i have windows up and running but now (the cd i had was not
> bootable) have a problem with the new 1TB HDD i bought to store audio
> files. After buying and returning a shabby external usb enclosure i
> bought a pci sata card but couldn't get that to work then i noticed
> that i do have sata on my motherboard ( Asus P4G8X deluxe) ! i plugged
> the new HDD into the sata plug and connected the power cables to the
> HDD and booted up, bios recognized the new HDD but then just hangs
> there. i tried to press f4 or ctl+s to try and access raid utility but
> nothing. I downloaded the bios update driver from the Asus website but
> don't know how to use it. Can any of you smart audio.pro people help
> me with advice to go further. thanks, -Jack

i forgot to mention i also bought an adapter to change my original HD
(with the OS) from ata to sata and plugged that into the sata plug on
the motherboard but windows could not start.

[Mike Rivers]

On Sep 3, 3:31 pm, Jack Jarmush > wrote:

> i forgot to mention i also bought an adapter to change my original HD
> (with the OS) from ata to sata and plugged that into the sata plug on
> the motherboard but windows could not start.

As I understand your situation, you got it to boot Windows from your
old IDE drive, but you can't get it to work with the SATA drive. You
may need to go into the CMOS setup and tell it to detect the hard
drive. Just because it looks like it found it doesn't mean that it
knows what to do with it.

Then, you'll have to load the operating system on to it. These things
are so hard to diagnose without being there.

[Jack Jarmush]

On Sep 3, 11:38*pm, Mike Rivers > wrote:
> On Sep 3, 3:31 pm, Jack Jarmush > wrote:
>
> > i forgot to mention i also bought an adapter to change my original HD
> > (with the OS) from ata to sata and plugged that into the sata plug on
> > the motherboard but windows could not start.
>
> As I understand your situation, you got it to boot Windows from your
> old IDE drive, but you can't get it to work with the SATA drive. You
> may need to go into the CMOS setup and tell it to detect the hard
> drive. Just because it looks like it found it doesn't mean that it
> knows what to do with it.
>
> Then, you'll have to load the operating system on to it. These things
> are so hard to diagnose without being there.

actually i can't get my new storage HDD to work on the Serial ATA plug
on the motherboard or from the new S-ATA card. Windows is running on
the IDE drive at the moment but i would like to change that to S-ATA
also. When i plug the new 1TB HDD to the S-ATA plug on the motherboard
BIOS recognizes it but does nothing, hangs. i don't know where to go
from here?

[philicorda[_7_]]

On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 16:42:25 -0700, Jack Jarmush wrote:

<snip>
> actually i can't get my new storage HDD to work on the Serial ATA plug
> on the motherboard or from the new S-ATA card. Windows is running on the
> IDE drive at the moment but i would like to change that to S-ATA also.
> When i plug the new 1TB HDD to the S-ATA plug on the motherboard BIOS
> recognizes it but does nothing, hangs. i don't know where to go from
> here?

Does Windows start to boot, and then hang? Or is there no bootloader
activity of any kind?

Windows is a little finicky about drive order sometimes. It's best to
install all the hard drives before installing Windows.

If a re-install doesn't work, you could try a Linux live CD, just to make
sure the hardware is good.

[Jack Jarmush]

On Sep 4, 2:01*am, philicorda >
wrote:
> On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 16:42:25 -0700, Jack Jarmush wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > actually i can't get my new storage HDD to work on the Serial ATA plug
> > on the motherboard or from the new S-ATA card. Windows is running on the
> > IDE drive at the moment but i would like to change that to S-ATA also.
> > When i plug the new 1TB HDD to the S-ATA plug on the motherboard BIOS
> > recognizes it but does nothing, hangs. i don't know where to go from
> > here?
>
> Does Windows start to boot, and then hang? Or is there no bootloader
> activity of any kind?

It hangs after BIOS recognizes the new S-ATA HDD, Window's doesn't
start at all.

[philicorda[_7_]]

On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 17:11:43 -0700, Jack Jarmush wrote:

> On Sep 4, 2:01Â*am, philicorda >
> wrote:
>> On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 16:42:25 -0700, Jack Jarmush wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> > actually i can't get my new storage HDD to work on the Serial ATA
>> > plug on the motherboard or from the new S-ATA card. Windows is
>> > running on the IDE drive at the moment but i would like to change
>> > that to S-ATA also. When i plug the new 1TB HDD to the S-ATA plug on
>> > the motherboard BIOS recognizes it but does nothing, hangs. i don't
>> > know where to go from here?
>>
>> Does Windows start to boot, and then hang? Or is there no bootloader
>> activity of any kind?
>
> It hangs after BIOS recognizes the new S-ATA HDD, Window's doesn't start
> at all.

Hmmm. Have you checked the boot order in the BIOS to make sure it is
trying the IDE drive first?

That's a strange one though, as normally there is a message like "No
operating system found", rather than a complete hang.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jack Jarmush" > wrote in message


> Well i have windows up and running but now (the cd i had
> was not bootable) have a problem with the new 1TB HDD i
> bought to store audio files. After buying and returning a
> shabby external usb enclosure i bought a pci sata card
> but couldn't get that to work then i noticed that i do
> have sata on my motherboard ( Asus P4G8X deluxe) ! i
> plugged the new HDD into the sata plug and connected the
> power cables to the HDD and booted up, bios recognized
> the new HDD but then just hangs there.

It's no doubt trying to boot the new hard drive which has nothing on it to
boot.

In the CMOS bios there is a page where you set the boot order, both type of
device and also specific device.

I downloaded the PDF version of paper manual for the motherboard from the
Asus web site. On page 4-34, item 4.6 is the place where you set the boot
device order. This manual has helpful information, and you should download
it unless you can locate the paper version of it. In any case, read it.

> i tried to press
> f4 or ctl+s to try and access raid utility but nothing.

That's not going to help. RAID is over your head at this point.

> I downloaded the bios update driver from the Asus website
> but don't know how to use it.

Good thing, a bios update is the last thing you need. This is an operator
familiarity issue.

> Can any of you smart
> audio.pro people help me with advice to go further.
> thanks,

There's also a key that will enter an interactive boot device selection menu
during BIOS initialization at power-on boot time.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jack Jarmush" > wrote in message


> i forgot to mention i also bought an adapter to change my
> original HD (with the OS) from ata to sata and plugged
> that into the sata plug on the motherboard but windows
> could not start.

I don't know why you would need such a thing at this time.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jack Jarmush" > wrote in message


> actually i can't get my new storage HDD to work on the
> Serial ATA plug on the motherboard or from the new S-ATA
> card.

Later on you clarify this. It's not that the drive doesn't work, the problem
is no doubt that the motherboard is trying to boot it and hangs because
there is not yet any OS there. So you never get windows up to the point were
you can see what's going on.

> Windows is running on the IDE drive at the moment

That is a good thing.

> but i would like to change that to S-ATA also.

Once you get the SATA drive working you can use a utility like Maxblast to
copy the OS from your IDE driver to your SATA drive. Adjust the boot device
selection, and it should start booting from the new drive.

> When i plug the new 1TB HDD to the S-ATA plug on the motherboard
> BIOS recognizes it but does nothing, hangs.

That's probably the boot order thing I mentioned in an earlier post.

> i don't know where to go from here?

Download the manual and change the boot order so that you continue to boot
the IDE drive until you've set up the SATA drive so that it has an OS on it.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jack Jarmush" > wrote in message

> On Sep 4, 2:01 am, philicorda
> > wrote:
>> On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 16:42:25 -0700, Jack Jarmush wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> actually i can't get my new storage HDD to work on the
>>> Serial ATA plug on the motherboard or from the new
>>> S-ATA card. Windows is running on the IDE drive at the
>>> moment but i would like to change that to S-ATA also.
>>> When i plug the new 1TB HDD to the S-ATA plug on the
>>> motherboard BIOS recognizes it but does nothing, hangs.
>>> i don't know where to go from here?
>>
>> Does Windows start to boot, and then hang? Or is there
>> no bootloader activity of any kind?
>
> It hangs after BIOS recognizes the new S-ATA HDD,
> Window's doesn't start at all.

Boot order. Boot order.

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Jack Jarmush wrote:

> On Sep 4, 2:01 am, philicorda >
> wrote:
>> On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 16:42:25 -0700, Jack Jarmush wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> actually i can't get my new storage HDD to work on the Serial ATA
>>> plug on the motherboard or from the new S-ATA card. Windows is
>>> running on the IDE drive at the moment but i would like to change
>>> that to S-ATA also. When i plug the new 1TB HDD to the S-ATA plug
>>> on the motherboard BIOS recognizes it but does nothing, hangs. i
>>> don't know where to go from here?
>>
>> Does Windows start to boot, and then hang? Or is there no bootloader
>> activity of any kind?
>
> It hangs after BIOS recognizes the new S-ATA HDD, Window's doesn't
> start at all.

Install the sata driver then, it ain't there because it wasn't loaded during
the pre-install boot, so windows doesn't know it needs it. Remove sata disk,
find mobo install cd, install all drivers, try again. Uanble to find mobo
install cd? - download drivers from manufacturers web site.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Arny Krueger wrote:

> "Jack Jarmush" > wrote in message
>
>
>> actually i can't get my new storage HDD to work on the
>> Serial ATA plug on the motherboard or from the new S-ATA
>> card.
>
> Later on you clarify this. It's not that the drive doesn't work, the
> problem is no doubt that the motherboard is trying to boot it and
> hangs because there is not yet any OS there. So you never get windows
> up to the point were you can see what's going on.
>
>> Windows is running on the IDE drive at the moment
>
> That is a good thing.

>> but i would like to change that to S-ATA also.

To solve what problem?

> Once you get the SATA drive working you can use a utility like
> Maxblast to copy the OS from your IDE driver to your SATA drive. Adjust
> the boot device selection, and it should start booting from
> the new drive.

Could be right too, but I still think it is a driver issue. Usually if the
mobo can't boot from somewhere it jumps to next in queue.

>> When i plug the new 1TB HDD to the S-ATA plug on the motherboard
>> BIOS recognizes it but does nothing, hangs.

> That's probably the boot order thing I mentioned in an earlier post.

Some of the time SATA disks get enumerated at lower drive id than IDE disks,
if so then windows may accept it as boot drive and try and fail because it
does not have the SATA driver required.

>> i don't know where to go from here?

> Download the manual and change the boot order so that you continue to
> boot the IDE drive until you've set up the SATA drive so that it has
> an OS on it.

I have seen no mentioning of the sata driver being installed. Windows does
not install drivers it doesn't need, and it didn't need it when getting
installed on the IDE disk.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Jack Jarmush]

On Sep 4, 2:37*am, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> "Jack Jarmush" > wrote in message
>
>
>
> > Well i have windows up and running but now (the cd i had
> > was not bootable) have a problem with the new 1TB HDD i
> > bought to store audio files. After buying and returning a
> > shabby external usb enclosure i bought a pci sata card
> > but couldn't get that to work then i noticed that i do
> > have sata on my motherboard ( Asus P4G8X deluxe) ! i
> > plugged the new HDD into the sata plug and connected the
> > power cables to the HDD and booted up, bios recognized
> > the new HDD but then just hangs there.
>
> It's no doubt trying to boot the new hard drive which has nothing on it to
> boot.

i checked the boot order in BIOS and the new S-ATA HD isn't even
listed but the strange thing is it is listed when the computer is
booting just after the IDE HD then the CD ROM. BIOS recognizes the S-
ATA HD then hangs.
>
> In the CMOS bios there is a page where you set the boot order, both type of
> device and also specific device.
>
> I downloaded the PDF version of paper manual for the motherboard from the
> Asus web site. On page 4-34, item 4.6 is the place where you set the boot
> device order. This manual has helpful information, and you should download
> it unless you can locate the paper version of it. In any case, read it.

i have the paper manual and do read it but obviously not enough and
don't understand much of it at this point.
the manual doesn't help with this problem with the S-ATA drive not
loading or i can't find any info about it.

> > *i tried to press
> > f4 or ctl+s to try and access raid utility but nothing.
>
> That's not going to help. *RAID is over your head at this point.
>
> > I downloaded the bios update driver from the Asus website
> > but don't know how to use it.
>
> Good thing, a bios update is the last thing you need. This is an operator
> familiarity issue.
>

thanks Arny,

> > Can any of you smart
> > audio.pro people help me with advice to go further.
> > thanks,
>
> There's also a key that will enter an interactive boot device selection menu
> during BIOS initialization at power-on boot time.

i will look for that...

i know the S-ATA HD works because i formatted it already in a usb
enclosure but since have returned the enclosure because it was
physically broken out of the box and anyway i preder to have the HD in
the S-ATA slot as it's much faster.

I still have the S-ATA card (which i bought before i realized the MB
has 2 S-ATA slots duh) inserted into a PCI slot but can't get that to
work neither, maybe i should return that along with the ATA-SATA
adapter i bought for the old IDE drive.

[John Williamson]

Jack Jarmush wrote:
>
> i know the S-ATA HD works because i formatted it already in a usb
> enclosure but since have returned the enclosure because it was
> physically broken out of the box and anyway i preder to have the HD in
> the S-ATA slot as it's much faster.
>
> I still have the S-ATA card (which i bought before i realized the MB
> has 2 S-ATA slots duh) inserted into a PCI slot but can't get that to
> work neither, maybe i should return that along with the ATA-SATA
> adapter i bought for the old IDE drive.
>
That might be a problem. Have you tried it with the PCI card removed and
the drive plugged into one of the on-board connectors?

There may be a conflict between the built in controller and the PCI
controller.

Of course, if you've tried it, and mentioned it, blame my lack of
attention for repeating the suggestion.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Mike Rivers]

On Sep 4, 6:08 am, Jack Jarmush > wrote:

> i checked the boot order in BIOS and the new S-ATA HD isn't even
> listed but the strange thing is it is listed when the computer is
> booting just after the IDE HD then the CD ROM. BIOS recognizes the
> S-ATA HD then hangs.

It sounds like the SATA drive doesn't have a drive letter assigned to
it. I'm not sure where that happens nowadays, but it needs to happen.

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

Jack Jarmush wrote:

> i know the S-ATA HD works because i formatted it already in a usb
> enclosure but since have returned the enclosure because it was
> physically broken out of the box and anyway i preder to have the HD in
> the S-ATA slot as it's much faster.

Is this a name-brand disk (like Maxtor) that came with a setup CD? If so,
it would be useful to boot from that CD and see if it can find the
drive. If
so, let it to its thing, including copying the contents of your present
Windows
disk to it, and then see if you can boot from it.

[Arny Krueger]

"Peter Larsen" > wrote in message
k
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>> "Jack Jarmush" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>>> actually i can't get my new storage HDD to work on the
>>> Serial ATA plug on the motherboard or from the new S-ATA
>>> card.
>>
>> Later on you clarify this. It's not that the drive
>> doesn't work, the problem is no doubt that the
>> motherboard is trying to boot it and hangs because there
>> is not yet any OS there. So you never get windows up to
>> the point were you can see what's going on.

>>> Windows is running on the IDE drive at the moment

>> That is a good thing.

>>> but i would like to change that to S-ATA also.

> To solve what problem?

>> Once you get the SATA drive working you can use a
>> utility like Maxblast to copy the OS from your IDE
>> driver to your SATA drive. Adjust the boot device
>> selection, and it should start booting from the new drive.

> Could be right too, but I still think it is a driver
> issue.

Drivers are important, but if he follows up correctly, he will be directed
by XP to resolve the driver issue before he makes the copy to the SATA
drive.

> Usually if the mobo can't boot from somewhere it
> jumps to next in queue.

What mobos do is they go down the list bootable devices that the user sets
up. If a mountable device like a CD or floppy is not ready than it skips it
like you say. If a CD or a floppy has unbootable media, usually it takes
manual action to get by this. In this case the SATA drive is ready with
media, but the media is not bootable.

If you boot certain media like say an XP install disk, it is front-ended
with a little bootable system that asks you if you want to run the install
program. That's not the BIOS talking, that's the CD media talking.


>>> When i plug the new 1TB HDD to the S-ATA plug on the
>>> motherboard BIOS recognizes it but does nothing, hangs.

>> That's probably the boot order thing I mentioned in an
>> earlier post.

> Some of the time SATA disks get enumerated at lower drive
> id than IDE disks,

A key point. So, you plug in a virgin SATA drive, there is nothing on it to
boot, and the system hangs. Been there, done that many times. No problem,
just go to the next step.

> if so then windows may accept it as
> boot drive and try and fail because it does not have the
> SATA driver required.

That can happen, but in this case the SATA media appears to not be not
bootable at all. I understand that it is a virgin disk. Generally, if you
try to boot a virgin disk, the system hangs. It seems like the BIOS should
do better than that, but I've experienced it many times. I
build/upgrade/install/repair about 100 systems a year.

>>> i don't know where to go from here?

>> Download the manual and change the boot order so that
>> you continue to boot the IDE drive until you've set up
>> the SATA drive so that it has an OS on it.

> I have seen no mentioning of the sata driver being
> installed.

I see no mention of the SATA drive having anything bootable on it.

If you go through an XP install, it will ensure that the drivers for booting
are installed before things get very far.

If you boot the IDE drive after the SATA drive is installed as a non-booting
drive (driver order updated in BIOS) then XP will try to load the driver. If
you then copy XP to the SATA drive, it will boot.

> Windows does not install drivers it doesn't
> need, and it didn't need it when getting installed on the
> IDE disk.

The drivers for standard IDE disks are built into XP. Most modern SATA
controllers and drives install well and run with standard IDE drivers. It
wasn't always this way, but the SATA hardware people seem to have learned
their lesson.

If you install XP from scratrch on a SATA drive that needs drivers, theres a
way to include them in the install - the F6 thing.

Most modern SATA drives don't require special drivers unless you are
installing on a RAID array.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jack Jarmush" > wrote in message

> On Sep 4, 2:37 am, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>> "Jack Jarmush" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>>
>>> Well i have windows up and running but now (the cd i had
>>> was not bootable) have a problem with the new 1TB HDD i
>>> bought to store audio files. After buying and returning
>>> a shabby external usb enclosure i bought a pci sata card
>>> but couldn't get that to work then i noticed that i do
>>> have sata on my motherboard ( Asus P4G8X deluxe) ! i
>>> plugged the new HDD into the sata plug and connected the
>>> power cables to the HDD and booted up, bios recognized
>>> the new HDD but then just hangs there.
>>
>> It's no doubt trying to boot the new hard drive which
>> has nothing on it to boot.

> i checked the boot order in BIOS and the new S-ATA HD
> isn't even listed

There may be two boot order listings - one of devices, and one of types of
devices.

> but the strange thing is it is listed
> when the computer is booting just after the IDE HD then
> the CD ROM. BIOS recognizes the S- ATA HD then hangs.

If the SATA drive has a bootable system on it, even without the right
drivers, it will partially boot. If you try to boot a system that lacks
necessary drivers, it may boot part ways and then load a blue screen.
However, you probably have the system set to auto-reboot on a system failure
and it may start rebooting before you see the stop error message and blue
screen. Instead, you see the machine trapped in a loop, rebooting again and
again. You don't seem to be seeing that, so I think your problem is that
you're booting a drive with no OS on it at all. That often gives a plain
hard stop hang.



>> This manual has helpful information, and you should
>> download it unless you can locate the paper version of
>> it. In any case, read it.

> i have the paper manual and do read it but obviously not
> enough and don't understand much of it at this point.
> the manual doesn't help with this problem with the S-ATA
> drive not loading or i can't find any info about it.

I agree. I know what it takes to handle these situations and much of that
information is not in the book. However, its easier to have people read the
book than to also tell them what is in it, as it relates.


>>> i tried to press
>>> f4 or ctl+s to try and access raid utility but nothing.
>>
>> That's not going to help. RAID is over your head at this
>> point.
>>
>>> I downloaded the bios update driver from the Asus
>>> website but don't know how to use it.
>>
>> Good thing, a bios update is the last thing you need.
>> This is an operator familiarity issue.

> thanks Arny,

>>> Can any of you smart
>>> audio.pro people help me with advice to go further.
>>> thanks,
>>
>> There's also a key that will enter an interactive boot
>> device selection menu during BIOS initialization at
>> power-on boot time.
>
> i will look for that...

On a board this old, a boot time menu option may or may not exist.

> i know the S-ATA HD works because i formatted it already
> in a usb enclosure but since have returned the enclosure
> because it was physically broken out of the box and
> anyway i preder to have the HD in the S-ATA slot as it's
> much faster.

I agree that if you can do it, you should put the boot drive in the PC case.

> I still have the S-ATA card (which i bought before i
> realized the MB has 2 S-ATA slots duh) inserted into a
> PCI slot but can't get that to work neither, maybe i
> should return that along with the ATA-SATA adapter i
> bought for the old IDE drive.

I don't see where any of that will do you any good in the short term.

One of the things I do is copy bootable drives over USB, but I don't use
enclosures, I just use the little outboard gizmo with the external cord-wart
power supply.

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

Arny Krueger wrote:

> On a board this old, a boot time menu option may or may not exist.

I was going to question the age of the motherboard, but it's so hard to
keep up with
these things. I was wondering if the problem was that the BIOS didn't
recognize a drive
that large. But he did say he was able to format it using a USB adapter.

[Arny Krueger]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message

> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>> On a board this old, a boot time menu option may or may
>> not exist.
>
> I was going to question the age of the motherboard, but
> it's so hard to keep up with
> these things. I was wondering if the problem was that the
> BIOS didn't recognize a drive
> that large. But he did say he was able to format it using
> a USB adapter.

USB hard drive adaptors and the hard drives on them may or may not be
supported by the BIOS, but they can still work in useful ways.

If the BIOS supports it, you can boot a USB hard drive.

Even if the BIOS doesn't support the hard drive, XP may. XP it will tunnel
out to the hard drive through the various layers of protocols that it
implements.

We are headed for new kind of drive incompatibility. AFAIK, drives > 2 TB
are not supported by 32 bit XP, no how, no way.

The need for > 3.5 GB of RAM and > 2 TB hard drive partitions will force
people to go to 64 bit OS's.

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

Arny Krueger wrote:

> We are headed for new kind of drive incompatibility. AFAIK, drives > 2 TB
> are not supported by 32 bit XP, no how, no way.

That's not new. We used to have to partition a "large" drive because DOS
wouldn't
support the full size as a single partition.

> The need for > 3.5 GB of RAM and > 2 TB hard drive partitions will force
> people to go to 64 bit OS's.

Wouldn't it be better to force programmers to write more compact code? <G>

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Jack Jarmush wrote:

> i checked the boot order in BIOS and the new S-ATA HD isn't even
> listed but the strange thing is it is listed when the computer is
> booting just after the IDE HD then the CD ROM. BIOS recognizes the S-
> ATA HD then hangs.

1) remove sata drive

2) boot os

3) add sata mobo driver

4) close down and remove pc mains cord

5) poor coffee or make similar leangth pause

6) add sata drive

7) boot os

8) what happens then?

> i have the paper manual and do read it but obviously not enough and
> don't understand much of it at this point.
> the manual doesn't help with this problem with the S-ATA drive not
> loading or i can't find any info about it.

OK, load default settings and save settings before trying the list of
actions above.

>>> I downloaded the bios update driver from the Asus website
>>> but don't know how to use it.

The general suggestion with a working system, and this IS a working system,
is to only update the bios when you know what problem it will solve. Also
you should have the pc running off of an ups when doing it. In some contexts
it is a good idea, this is not one of them.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Mike Rivers wrote:

> Arny Krueger wrote:

>> We are headed for new kind of drive incompatibility. AFAIK, drives
>> > 2 TB are not supported by 32 bit XP, no how, no way.

Souce please, the microserf exam answer is 64 terabytes as max for ntfs.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Arny Krueger]

"Peter Larsen" > wrote in message
k
> Mike Rivers wrote:
>
>> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>>> We are headed for new kind of drive incompatibility.
>>> AFAIK, drives
>>>> 2 TB are not supported by 32 bit XP, no how, no way.
>
> Souce please, the microserf exam answer is 64 terabytes
> as max for ntfs.

You are right as far as what you say goes, but I was talking about the
realworld practical limit as it exists on the software and hardware that
most of us use today (NT Home-Pro/Vista Home-etc./Win7 32) on IDE and SATA
discs in standard partitions.

http://www.mcmcse.com/windows_xp/guides/filesystems.shtml

"NTFS volumes can theoretically be as large as 16 exabytes (EB), but the
practical limit is 2 terabytes"

http://forums.techarena.in/hardware-peripherals/1130013.htm

"In theory, the maximum NTFS volume size is (2^64) -1 clusters. However, the
maximum NTFS volume size as implemented in Windows XP Professional is
(2^32)-1 clusters. For example, using 64 KiB clusters, the maximum NTFS
volume size is 256 TiB minus 64 KiB. Using the default cluster size of 4
KiB, the maximum NTFS volume size is 16 TiB minus 4 KiB. (Both of these are
vastly higher than the 137GB limit in unpatched Windows XP due to lack of
48-bit LBA hard drive addressing support) Because partition tables on master
boot record (MBR) disks only support partition sizes up to 2 TiB, dynamic or
GPT volumes must be used to create bootable NTFS volumes over 2 TiB. "

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc781134(WS.10).aspx

"Partition Tables on MBR and GUID disks
Master boot record (MBR) disks use both basic and dynamic volumes. Because
partition tables on MBR disks support partition sizes only up to 2
terabytes, you must use dynamic volumes to create NTFS volumes over 2
terabytes. Windows Server 2003 manages dynamic volumes in a special database
instead of in the partition table; therefore dynamic volumes are not subject
to the 2-terabyte physical limit imposed by the partition table. Dynamic
NTFS volumes can be as large as the maximum volume size supported by NTFS.
Itanium-based computers that use GUID partition table (GPT) disks also
support NTFS volumes larger than 2 terabytes.

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 07:53:01 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>We are headed for new kind of drive incompatibility. AFAIK, drives > 2 TB
>are not supported by 32 bit XP, no how, no way.

Hardly new. That sort of issue (and the ways round it) go back to
dos.

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Fri, 04 Sep 2009 08:34:43 -0400, Mike Rivers >
wrote:

>> The need for > 3.5 GB of RAM and > 2 TB hard drive partitions will force
>> people to go to 64 bit OS's.
>
>Wouldn't it be better to force programmers to write more compact code? <G>

It's not really about program code. It's about huge data sets - high
resolution graphics and video, audio samples...

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 09:27:56 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>You are right as far as what you say goes, but I was talking about the
>realworld practical limit as it exists on the software and hardware that
>most of us use today (NT Home-Pro/Vista Home-etc./Win7 32) on IDE and SATA
>discs in standard partitions.

So most of us are currently setting up in ways that limit us to 2TB,
but it's easy to set up in ways that don't have this limit.

That's fine then. What was your point again?

[Arny Krueger]

"Laurence Payne" > wrote in message

> On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 07:53:01 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
> > wrote:
>
>> We are headed for new kind of drive incompatibility.
>> AFAIK, drives > 2 TB are not supported by 32 bit XP, no
>> how, no way.
>
> Hardly new. That sort of issue (and the ways round it)
> go back to dos.

Right, but we've had a lot of years before it was this widespread and
in-your-face apparent.

It looks like 2010 (less than 4 months away) will be the year of the 2.5 TB
commodity PC hard drive. Origional prediction was 2009.

Which circumvention do you plan to use?

[Arny Krueger]

"Laurence Payne" > wrote in message

> On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 09:27:56 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
> > wrote:
>
>> You are right as far as what you say goes, but I was
>> talking about the realworld practical limit as it exists
>> on the software and hardware that most of us use today
>> (NT Home-Pro/Vista Home-etc./Win7 32) on IDE and SATA
>> discs in standard partitions.
>
> So most of us are currently setting up in ways that limit
> us to 2TB, but it's easy to set up in ways that don't
> have this limit.

What's your game plan for installing that 2.5 GB drive early next year?

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

Laurence Payne wrote:

> It's not really about program code. It's about huge data sets - high
> resolution graphics and video, audio samples...

We could do with less than that, too, if only the magazines, newspapers,
and radio stations hadn't sold out.

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>>> We are headed for new kind of drive incompatibility.
>>> AFAIK, drives > 2 TB are not supported by 32 bit XP

> Right, but we've had a lot of years before it was this widespread and
> in-your-face apparent.

> Which circumvention do you plan to use?

Buy smaller drives while I still can. Frankly, I don't want to:

(a) Lose 2.5 TB of data to a drive crash or
(b) Buy a 2.5 TB drive and only put 100 GB of data on it

I'm not anticipating putting much larger chunks of data on my
disk drives in the next several years. I'm happy with the volume of
data that I'm storing now.

Are they going to make that 2.5 TB drive hold up ten times as
long as the 250 GB drives that I have now? I doubt it.

[Arny Krueger]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message

> Laurence Payne wrote:
>
>> It's not really about program code. It's about huge
>> data sets - high resolution graphics and video, audio
>> samples...
>
> We could do with less than that, too, if only the
> magazines, newspapers, and radio stations hadn't sold out.

Maybe 90% of the approx 2 terabytes of info I currently have locally stored
on a hard drive in some PC is stuff I created or did significant work on.

[Jack Jarmush]

"I have seen no mentioning of the sata driver being installed.
Windows does
not install drivers it doesn't need, and it didn't need it when
getting
installed on the IDE disk."

i installed SATA drivers from the mobo cd but still the SATA drive
doesn't run.


"That might be a problem. Have you tried it with the PCI card removed
and
the drive plugged into one of the on-board connectors?
There may be a conflict between the built in controller and the PCI
controller. "

tried it but no change.


1) remove sata drive
2) boot os
3) add sata mobo driver
4) close down and remove pc mains cord
5) poor coffee or make similar leangth pause
6) add sata drive
7) boot os
8) what happens then?


Did it but sadly no change.


I'm going in circles now trying to solve this SATA prob so i've
decided to stop unsolved, take all the stuff i can't use back to the
store get the money back and buy a good usb enlclosure and forget
about SATA.

Thanks for your help audio.pro, excellent group of scientifically
creative people!

[Mike Rivers]

Arny Krueger wrote:

> Maybe 90% of the approx 2 terabytes of info I currently have locally stored
> on a hard drive in some PC is stuff I created or did significant work on.

Why are you storing it? Because you can? Or because it's not finished? <g>

[Arny Krueger]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message

> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>> Maybe 90% of the approx 2 terabytes of info I currently
>> have locally stored on a hard drive in some PC is stuff
>> I created or did significant work on.

> Why are you storing it?

Because I don't want to take the time to figure out what to throw away.

> Because you can?

No, I've been adding and upgrading drives all along.

> Or because it's not finished? <g>

I'm up to date with my projects.

[Mike Rivers]

Arny Krueger wrote:

>> Why are you storing it?
> Because I don't want to take the time to figure out what to throw away.

Oh, that's easy for me. If I don't know what it is, it's gone. If I
don't like it, it's gone.
If I like it, it's mixed, on a CD somewhere, and it's never going to get
any better, so I
can ditch the source. Historians might hate me some day, but I doubt it.

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Arny Krueger wrote:

[lots of interesting stuff, thanks!]

> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc781134(WS.10).aspx

> "Partition Tables on MBR and GUID disks
> Master boot record (MBR) disks use both basic and dynamic volumes.
> Because partition tables on MBR disks support partition sizes only up
> to 2 terabytes, you must use dynamic volumes to create NTFS volumes
> over 2 terabytes. Windows Server 2003 manages dynamic volumes in a
> special database instead of in the partition table; therefore dynamic
> volumes are not subject to the 2-terabyte physical limit imposed by
> the partition table. Dynamic NTFS volumes can be as large as the
> maximum volume size supported by NTFS. Itanium-based computers that
> use GUID partition table (GPT) disks also support NTFS volumes larger
> than 2 terabytes.

Bought a diy'ed windows home server a couple of months ago, atom dual core
on itx and a wonderful antec cabinet, it does offer an alternative to mbr
formatting of disks, now I know why; I was wondering ....

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Jack Jarmush wrote:

> 1) remove sata drive
> 2) boot os
> 3) add sata mobo driver
> 4) close down and remove pc mains cord
> 5) poor coffee or make similar leangth pause
> 6) add sata drive
> 7) boot os
> 8) what happens then?

> Did it but sadly no change.

> I'm going in circles now trying to solve this SATA prob so i've
> decided to stop unsolved, take all the stuff i can't use back to the
> store get the money back and buy a good usb enlclosure and forget
> about SATA.

I'm beginning to wonder whether the drive is OK, I have a drive that hangs
the controller and it is plain broken. Worked for 10 minutes after
formatting .... there are those drive2usb gizmo's, no box - just the
interface - and they are cheap and very useful in the household. Just a
suggestion, you need to verify that the drive works and it could be one of
the ways. Should have remembered that earlier ....

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Sean Conolly]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
...
> On Sep 2, 8:06 am, "Sean Conolly" > wrote:
>
>> It doesn't take anymore time to make a Ubuntu disk than anything
>> else, and it will actually boot up to a fully operable system with
>> complete
>> with all the Linux utilities.
>>
>> If it's boots all the way to the Ubuntu desktop then the CD drive, BIOS,
>> and
>> basic system are fine, and the XP disk has a problem. If not, it's either
>> the bios or the CD-Rom or cables.
>
> I had one brief and ultimately aborted attempt to run Ubuntu. The
> short of it is that there were a couple of drivers in the distribution
> that I had which weren't compatible with my (fairly normal, I thought)
> hardware, the CD drive among them. This isn't the kind of potential
> problem that someone having trouble booting from a CD should risk.

Interesting - I've only had problems with Ubuntu on laptops. For desktops I
tend to use generic hardware, and I've never had one that wouldn't boot on
Ubuntu - every one I've tried came up the first time. Just lucky I guess.

Sean

[Mike Rivers]

Sean Conolly wrote:

> Interesting - I've only had problems with Ubuntu on laptops. For desktops I
> tend to use generic hardware, and I've never had one that wouldn't boot on
> Ubuntu - every one I've tried came up the first time. Just lucky I guess.

Oh, it booted OK, and it even appeared to work OK but one CD drive
always reported
that it was unmounted even though I could click on its icon in the GUI
and see
files on the disk, open them, copy them to the hard drive, just like it
was supposed
to work. The CD writer could read (and did mount) but wouldn't write.
Both were about
as generic as they come. I think one is a TEAC, I don't remember what
the other is. Of
course they worked fine under Windows.

[philicorda[_7_]]

On Sun, 06 Sep 2009 13:46:28 -0400, Mike Rivers wrote:

> Sean Conolly wrote:
>
>> Interesting - I've only had problems with Ubuntu on laptops. For
>> desktops I tend to use generic hardware, and I've never had one that
>> wouldn't boot on Ubuntu - every one I've tried came up the first time.
>> Just lucky I guess.
>
> Oh, it booted OK, and it even appeared to work OK but one CD drive
> always reported
> that it was unmounted even though I could click on its icon in the GUI
> and see
> files on the disk, open them, copy them to the hard drive, just like it
> was supposed
> to work. The CD writer could read (and did mount) but wouldn't write.
> Both were about
> as generic as they come. I think one is a TEAC, I don't remember what
> the other is. Of
> course they worked fine under Windows.

I'd imagine it was trying to write to the read only drive.
I don't like the simple burning app that comes with Gnome.
Next time, use K3B. It's a really nice program with some useful tricks
like converting compressed formats on the fly to audio CDs.

[Mike Rivers]

philicorda wrote:

> I'd imagine it was trying to write to the read only drive.
> I don't like the simple burning app that comes with Gnome.
> Next time, use K3B.

You seem to think that there will be a "next time." <g>

I see no reason for me to set up a DAW or any other computer tool using
Linux.
That's not to say that I refuse to use anything that's based on Linux,
it's just that
I don't want to have to be the one to make it work initially and keep it
maintained.
There's nothing wrong with, for example, a Harrison console or RADAR
recorder,
as long as those companies are around to provide all the software
support that
the end product needs.

[philicorda[_7_]]

On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 09:27:30 -0400, Mike Rivers wrote:

> philicorda wrote:
>
>> I'd imagine it was trying to write to the read only drive. I don't like
>> the simple burning app that comes with Gnome. Next time, use K3B.
>
> You seem to think that there will be a "next time." <g>
>
> I see no reason for me to set up a DAW or any other computer tool using
> Linux.
> That's not to say that I refuse to use anything that's based on Linux,
> it's just that
> I don't want to have to be the one to make it work initially and keep it
> maintained.

For an audio computer, I agree, it is still too much trouble for the
casual user.

For general use though, Linux seems infinitely better to me.

Talking of burning CDs, by studio computer DVD burner died, so I bought a
new one.

On the Linux install, it worked straight off, no configuration.

On the Windows install I first discover that my copy of NERO is tied to
the old CD writer. That's their prerogative I guess, but it's a pain.
So I google 'free windows cd burner'. 10,500,000 results.
Most are either not free, or the web sites look dodgy, or they appear to
include adware packages.
The first 'free' one that looks reasonable installs ok, but won't burn
DVDs as that is an optional upgrade.
The second one I download is flagged as dodgy by my virus scanner.
The third looks ok, installs ok, but crashes when it takes the disc back
in to verify it.

Now, with a few days of research I could have probably found a good free
Windows CD writer, and I'm sure many people here will post replies
recommending one, but I'm getting too old for that kind of messing about.

Randomly downloading stuff of the internet cannot compare to using a
package manager and a distribution's repository of software, which is the
norm on Linux.

I have to use Windows for Cubase, but that is not going to stop me
pointing out what an expensive pain the most basic procedures often are
compared to the alternatives.

> There's nothing wrong with, for example, a Harrison console or RADAR
> recorder,
> as long as those companies are around to provide all the software
> support that
> the end product needs.

[Richard Crowley]

"philicorda" wrote ...
> For an audio computer, I agree, it is still too much trouble for the
> casual user.
>
> For general use though, Linux seems infinitely better to me.
>
> Talking of burning CDs, by studio computer DVD burner died, so I bought a
> new one.
>
> On the Linux install, it worked straight off, no configuration.

What application are you using on Linux to burn CDs? DVDs?

> On the Windows install I first discover that my copy of NERO is tied to
> the old CD writer. That's their prerogative I guess, but it's a pain.

It came "free" bundled with the hardware. Did you not get a similar
bundled application with your new replacement drive. Hard to see
how this has anything to do with Windows vs. Linux?

> So I google 'free windows cd burner'. 10,500,000 results.

Yeah, there's a problem you'll never have with Linux. Choice. :-)

> Most are either not free, or the web sites look dodgy, or they appear to
> include adware packages.
> The first 'free' one that looks reasonable installs ok, but won't burn
> DVDs as that is an optional upgrade.
> The second one I download is flagged as dodgy by my virus scanner.
> The third looks ok, installs ok, but crashes when it takes the disc back
> in to verify it.

> Now, with a few days of research I could have probably found a good free
> Windows CD writer, and I'm sure many people here will post replies
> recommending one, but I'm getting too old for that kind of messing about.

Too old to be messing with asking for advice/recommendations here
in r.a.p? Just confirming what you are saying here? :-)

> Randomly downloading stuff of the internet cannot compare to using a
> package manager and a distribution's repository of software, which is the
> norm on Linux.

So Linux is kinda' like having the limited choice and "information
appliance"
experience of Apple without having to pay the Mac Tax. ? :-)

[philicorda[_7_]]

On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 12:41:03 -0700, Richard Crowley wrote:

> "philicorda" wrote ...
>> For an audio computer, I agree, it is still too much trouble for the
>> casual user.
>>
>> For general use though, Linux seems infinitely better to me.
>>
>> Talking of burning CDs, by studio computer DVD burner died, so I bought
>> a new one.
>>
>> On the Linux install, it worked straight off, no configuration.
>
> What application are you using on Linux to burn CDs? DVDs?

K3B. I think there was a Windows port at one time, but I couldn't find it.

>
>> On the Windows install I first discover that my copy of NERO is tied to
>> the old CD writer. That's their prerogative I guess, but it's a pain.
>
> It came "free" bundled with the hardware. Did you not get a similar
> bundled application with your new replacement drive. Hard to see how
> this has anything to do with Windows vs. Linux?

This is something I would not think twice about on Linux, but on Windows
is not as straightforward. The drive was just a OEM CD drive. I guess I'm
just not used to needing specific software licences to use one.

>
>> So I google 'free windows cd burner'. 10,500,000 results.
>
> Yeah, there's a problem you'll never have with Linux. Choice. :-)

There are many others in the package manager if you really want them.
From other graphical ones, to command line only, to ones for making
bootable images for SGI MIPS machines, to automated backup tools, to
tools for measuring burn quality by timing sector reads.

The default that came installed with the OS is called 'brasero', but I
prefer K3B as I like the layout and extra features.

>
>> Most are either not free, or the web sites look dodgy, or they appear
>> to include adware packages.
>> The first 'free' one that looks reasonable installs ok, but won't burn
>> DVDs as that is an optional upgrade.
>> The second one I download is flagged as dodgy by my virus scanner. The
>> third looks ok, installs ok, but crashes when it takes the disc back in
>> to verify it.
>
>> Now, with a few days of research I could have probably found a good
>> free Windows CD writer, and I'm sure many people here will post replies
>> recommending one, but I'm getting too old for that kind of messing
>> about.
>
> Too old to be messing with asking for advice/recommendations here in
> r.a.p? Just confirming what you are saying here? :-)

I guess it would have wasted no more of peoples time than my ranting
has. :)

I find the whole 'sort of but not really free' thing tremendously
frustrating though, as it's often intentionally not obvious what you are
downloading. Also, many of the sites seemed to have the same software,
but on different servers. Who knows what might be hidden in it?

>
>> Randomly downloading stuff of the internet cannot compare to using a
>> package manager and a distribution's repository of software, which is
>> the norm on Linux.
>
> So Linux is kinda' like having the limited choice and "information
> appliance"
> experience of Apple without having to pay the Mac Tax. ? :-)

Go on, concede this one point might be in favour of Linux/Free software.
Having basic utilities available from a trusted repository with a simple
installation method is a good thing.

There is a limit to how many programs I need to burn some files onto a CD
or DVD too.

I do remember using one version of Windows that would pop up a writing
dialog when you inserted a blank media, with the default install. I can't
remember which one it was though.

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 20:43:54 GMT, philicorda
> wrote:

>> It came "free" bundled with the hardware. Did you not get a similar
>> bundled application with your new replacement drive. Hard to see how
>> this has anything to do with Windows vs. Linux?
>
>This is something I would not think twice about on Linux, but on Windows
>is not as straightforward. The drive was just a OEM CD drive. I guess I'm
>just not used to needing specific software licences to use one.

The standard Windows "distro" (if that's how you want to think of it)
contains utilities to burn audio and data CDs. Want a better one, you
could slipstream it into a Windows installation disk if you really
wanted to, but it's easier to install it separately.

So don't be silly.

[philicorda[_7_]]

On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 23:19:03 +0100, Laurence Payne wrote:

> On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 20:43:54 GMT, philicorda
> > wrote:
>
>>> It came "free" bundled with the hardware. Did you not get a similar
>>> bundled application with your new replacement drive. Hard to see how
>>> this has anything to do with Windows vs. Linux?
>>
>>This is something I would not think twice about on Linux, but on Windows
>>is not as straightforward. The drive was just a OEM CD drive. I guess
>>I'm just not used to needing specific software licences to use one.
>
> The standard Windows "distro" (if that's how you want to think of it)
> contains utilities to burn audio and data CDs. Want a better one, you
> could slipstream it into a Windows installation disk if you really
> wanted to, but it's easier to install it separately.

Thanks! That is a useful thing to know. I suspect my first install of
Nero must have disabled it, but I've got it going again.

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to burn data DVDs and is also impressively
slow and buggy. It wants to create an image file before burning a CD, as
well as another entire copy of all the files on the CD in your local
profile. (Over a gigabyte of file copying and disk space!)

The first attempt failed as it ran out of drive space while creating the
image. So, I selected a new drive for the image file. It has now gone a
bit weird, giving me a blank folder when I insert a new CD, but when I
try to add files it says that they are already selected to be burnt. On a
third attempt I got it going, but it's stuck at 167 minutes remaining.

Perhaps my drive is incompatible? Going to the Windows XP hardware
compatibility page says:

"The Windows Logo'd Products List is currently only compatible with
Internet Explorer 6 and above. We apologize for the inconvenience. "

So, I guess I'll never know.

I'm afraid it is somewhat unusable, but certainly handy for emergency use!
I do understand now why there was little mention of it online though.

>
> So don't be silly.

[Mike Rivers]

philicorda wrote:

> Thanks! That is a useful thing to know. I suspect my first install of
> Nero must have disabled it, but I've got it going again.

I've been holding on to a couple of old drives that work with the versions
of Nero that I have. One was actually a bought version, but after a
while they
stopped adding new drives to its "recognized" list so it only works with
drives
older than about 5 years. And it doesn't burn DVDs. For DVDs, I use
CD BurnerXP: http://cdburnerxp.se/ which is donateware. I don't have the
latest version, but what I have works with all of the drives I need it
to work
with.

For quickie CDs of live off-the-PA-mixer recordings that I want to do a
little
better than a one-track CD, I still like Nero best because, at least
with the
version I have, it's easy to drop track markers. I have CD Architect as well
(came with Sound Forge) but I don't use that often enough to remember
how to use it, and I always fumble around a bit when I bring it up.

> Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to burn data DVDs and is also impressively
> slow and buggy. It wants to create an image file before burning a CD, as
> well as another entire copy of all the files on the CD in your local
> profile. (Over a gigabyte of file copying and disk space!)

When you burn an audio CD or DVD with the built-in Windows tools, it
throws you into Media Player. I find that annoying (and it's yet another
program I don't remember how to use) so I don't do that.

[Geoff]

Mike Rivers wrote:
> better than a one-track CD, I still like Nero best because, at least
> with the
> version I have, it's easy to drop track markers. I have CD Architect
> as well (came with Sound Forge) but I don't use that often enough to
> remember how to use it, and I always fumble around a bit when I bring it
> up.

You should have another serious play with CD - it's about as intuitive as
you can get, and miles more versatile !

Wanna a track - position the cursor and push 'T'. Want to more a track -
simply drag it, including for x-fades etc.

geoff

[philicorda[_7_]]

On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 08:33:44 -0400, Mike Rivers wrote:

> philicorda wrote:
>
>> Thanks! That is a useful thing to know. I suspect my first install of
>> Nero must have disabled it, but I've got it going again.
>
> I've been holding on to a couple of old drives that work with the
> versions of Nero that I have. One was actually a bought version, but
> after a while they
> stopped adding new drives to its "recognized" list so it only works with
> drives
> older than about 5 years. And it doesn't burn DVDs. For DVDs, I use CD
> BurnerXP: http://cdburnerxp.se/ which is donateware. I don't have the
> latest version, but what I have works with all of the drives I need it
> to work
> with.

That CDburnerxp is just the job. I'll definitely be sending them a few
quid. It worked fine first time with my drive and is clear and obvious to
use. Cheers!

>
> For quickie CDs of live off-the-PA-mixer recordings that I want to do a
> little
> better than a one-track CD, I still like Nero best because, at least
> with the
> version I have, it's easy to drop track markers. I have CD Architect as
> well (came with Sound Forge) but I don't use that often enough to
> remember how to use it, and I always fumble around a bit when I bring it
> up.

I used to love the montage in Wavelab for this, but sadly I don't have
access to it any more.

>
>> Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to burn data DVDs and is also
>> impressively slow and buggy. It wants to create an image file before
>> burning a CD, as well as another entire copy of all the files on the CD
>> in your local profile. (Over a gigabyte of file copying and disk
>> space!)
>
> When you burn an audio CD or DVD with the built-in Windows tools, it
> throws you into Media Player. I find that annoying (and it's yet another
> program I don't remember how to use) so I don't do that.

I'm not sure the built in ones do DVDs at all, as far as I can tell. I
found them somewhat convoluted to use too.

[Mike Rivers]

geoff wrote:
> You should have another serious play with CD [Architect] - it's about as intuitive as
> you can get, and miles more versatile !

Too versatile. I keep opening the wrong panes.

> Wanna a track - position the cursor and push 'T'. Want to more a track -
> simply drag it, including for x-fades etc.

Yeah, I finally most of the time remember to use the T key, but on a
program that
I seldom use, I miss a right-click menu. There's nothing wrong with CD
Architect,
it's ME that there's something wrong with. I don't make enough CDs so I
never
really learned the program very well.

[Mike Rivers]

philicorda wrote:

> I used to love the montage in Wavelab for this, but sadly I don't have
> access to it any more.

I have WaveLab but like all the other audio software I have, I don't use it
often enough to remember how it works. But that's really overkill for what I
do nearly 100% of the time. I have a recording of a concert straight of the
PA console or a pair of mics. I'm not going to master it (at least not
yet), I'm
just going to cut off the garbage before and after the show, and drop track
markers in at the start of each song so the CD player numbers will
increment.
For that, Nero is just perfect, and CDBurnerXP is just as good.

If I was preparing a CD for distribution, that's when I'd get out CD
Architect
or WaveLab (and the manuals).