Hey Gibson people - Get your act together already~!

[Danny T]

I'm hoping maybe someone here can forward my thoughts to someone
further up the Gibson food chain for me. They don't seem to get the
point when I email customer service.

I bought an ebay Les Paul that turned out to be counterfeit. I can get
my money back. They guy I bought it from already made a payment to me
to pay me back but he wants me to ship the guitar back so he can
resell it. I sent pictures to Gibson customer service (Benton
Cummings) and the said - Yep, its a fake! He will not send that
statement on letterhead and without that, I'll have to send the guitar
back. With the letter, I can keep the money and destroy the guitar so
it is out of circulation.

Gibson, what you are thinking? I'm doing YOU a favor. I already have
my money back. If you don't care if this guy is selling fake Gibson
guitars then why the hell should I? He advertises the guitars as
being US and then ships from China. He is selling somewhere near 50 of
these each week. He gets away with it by giving the money back to
people that complain and obviously Gibson doesn't care!

If y'all at gibson don't care, I won't either but I won't be buying
any high priced gibson guitars anymore because I won't feel safe that
they are real.

Have a great life

[garyvee]

I have no interest in buying a Gibson from eBay but I am curious about
this type of thing on eBay. Can you disclose the eBay identity of this
seller?

Gary V

[Danny T]

On Aug 21, 10:35*am, garyvee > wrote:
> I have no interest in buying a Gibson from eBay but I am curious about
> this type of thing on eBay. Can you disclose the eBay identity of this
> seller?
>
> Gary V

No worries on that. If they don't like it then they shouldn't be
selling the guitars

The ID is artk6250. You'll notice he has nothing on eBay anymore but
it is only because I made such a fuss over it. eBay's exact words to
me, yesterday were "Usually when we have this sort of thing you'll get
to keep the guitar and get your money back". to which I said something
like - But it's a counterfeit and I really want to keep these things
off the market... Their answer was "Counterfeits are all over the
place, it's no big deal"!

I had a recorder on my end listening in to them but I don't remember
exactly what I said - what they said shocked me.

[Central Scrutinizer]

May I make a suggestion?

EBAY is way overrated. Post ads for yours on Craigslist and other
classified sites. They do not make you pay if the item does not sell (as
Ebay does) and the more you get it out there, the higher chance it will
sell. Locally or nationally.

But the other thing is...if it stays in tune well and has nice pickups
(like higher end Epiphones) not too many people can tell the difference,
especially when run through all the effects and amp modelers that folks
use these days. If it sounds good, the name should not be such an issue,
unless you run a museum.


Danny T wrote:
> I'm hoping maybe someone here can forward my thoughts to someone
> further up the Gibson food chain for me. They don't seem to get the
> point when I email customer service.
>
> I bought an ebay Les Paul that turned out to be counterfeit. I can get
> my money back. They guy I bought it from already made a payment to me
> to pay me back but he wants me to ship the guitar back so he can
> resell it. I sent pictures to Gibson customer service (Benton
> Cummings) and the said - Yep, its a fake! He will not send that
> statement on letterhead and without that, I'll have to send the guitar
> back. With the letter, I can keep the money and destroy the guitar so
> it is out of circulation.
>
> Gibson, what you are thinking? I'm doing YOU a favor. I already have
> my money back. If you don't care if this guy is selling fake Gibson
> guitars then why the hell should I? He advertises the guitars as
> being US and then ships from China. He is selling somewhere near 50 of
> these each week. He gets away with it by giving the money back to
> people that complain and obviously Gibson doesn't care!
>
> If y'all at gibson don't care, I won't either but I won't be buying
> any high priced gibson guitars anymore because I won't feel safe that
> they are real.
>
> Have a great life

[Danny T]

On Aug 21, 3:29*pm, Central Scrutinizer >
wrote:
> May I make a suggestion?
>
> EBAY is way overrated. Post ads for yours on Craigslist and other
> classified sites. They do not make you pay if the item does not sell (as
> Ebay does) and the more you get it out there, the higher chance it will
> sell. Locally or nationally.
>
> But the other thing is...if it stays in tune well and has nice pickups
> (like higher end Epiphones) not too many people can tell the difference,
> especially when run through all the effects and amp modelers that folks
> use these days. If it sounds good, the name should not be such an issue,
> unless you run a museum.
>
>
>
> Danny T wrote:
> > I'm hoping maybe someone here can forward my thoughts to someone
> > further up the Gibson food chain for me. They don't seem to get the
> > point when I email customer service.
>
> > I bought an ebay Les Paul that turned out to be counterfeit. I can get
> > my money back. They guy I bought it from already made a payment to me
> > to pay me back but he wants me to ship the guitar back so he can
> > resell it. I sent pictures to Gibson customer service (Benton
> > Cummings) and the said - Yep, its a fake! He will not send that
> > statement on letterhead and without that, I'll have to send the guitar
> > back. With the letter, I can keep the money and destroy the guitar so
> > it is out of circulation.
>
> > Gibson, what you are thinking? I'm doing YOU a favor. I already have
> > my money back. If you don't care if this guy is selling fake Gibson
> > guitars then why the hell should I? *He advertises the guitars as
> > being US and then ships from China. He is selling somewhere near 50 of
> > these each week. He gets away with it by giving the money back to
> > people that complain and obviously Gibson doesn't care!
>
> > If y'all at gibson don't care, I won't either but I won't be buying
> > any high priced gibson guitars anymore because I won't feel safe that
> > they are real.
>
> > Have a great life

We're talking a pretty ok looking face-wood over press-wood and it
gets worse from there. I'd never sleep at night knowing I ripped
someone off selling this. I actually already have my money back but
with Gibson's letter I can destroy the guitar and keep my money. I
will be required to show proof of its death but I'm thinking of a
quick home made rock video incorporating a little fire and a hard
sidewalk! Might be fun :-)

Gibson actually looked at close photos and said it was a fake but they
just won't give me a bloody letter stating what they already said.

[Mike Rivers]

Danny T wrote:

> I actually already have my money back but
> with Gibson's letter I can destroy the guitar and keep my money. I
> will be required to show proof of its death but I'm thinking of a
> quick home made rock video incorporating a little fire and a hard
> sidewalk! Might be fun :-)

Who's making you have a letter from Gibson before you destroy the
guitar? You have your money. You have the guitar. Burn it if it makes
you feel good. Did the seller say "either show me a letter from Gibson
stating that it's a fake or send it back?" And what's he going to do
if you don't? How about sending it back to him in pieces so he knows
you don't have it, but he won't be able to sell it again?


--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me here:
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
)

[Scott Dorsey]

Danny T > wrote:
>
>Gibson actually looked at close photos and said it was a fake but they
>just won't give me a bloody letter stating what they already said.

Write a letter to their legal department. Skip everyone else, send it
to legal. See what happens. It is VERY important to their legal folks
that they preserve their trademark, and if they let other people use
it, it isn't valuable any more.

The Shure folks have been VERY aggressive at pursuing counterfeits
on Ebay. Sennheiser is trying, but there are just so damn many fake
Evolutions out there that it's hard.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Danny T]

On Aug 21, 5:07*pm, Mike Rivers > wrote:
> Danny T wrote:
> > I actually already have my money back but
> > with Gibson's letter I can destroy the guitar and keep my money. I
> > will be required to show proof of its death but I'm thinking of a
> > quick home made rock video incorporating a little fire and a hard
> > sidewalk! Might be fun :-)
>
> Who's making you have a letter from Gibson before you destroy the
> guitar? You have your money. You have the guitar. Burn it if it makes
> you feel good. Did the seller say "either show me a letter from Gibson
> stating that it's a fake or send it back?" *And what's he going to do
> if you don't? How about sending it back to him in pieces so he knows
> you don't have it, but he won't be able to sell it again?
>
> --
> If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
> me here:
> double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
> )
I'm suppose to return the guitar unless I get the letter from gibson.
He made "payment" to me and not a refund. He's actually hoping for my
honesty (which I will give him) in this matter since I have both the
guitar and the money. Frankly, if Gibson doesn't mind the guitar being
out there I'll send it back to him and its up to the next guy I guess
but then that is why I said I won't buy a gibson again

[Danny T]

On Aug 21, 6:43*pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> Danny T > wrote:
>
>
>
> >Gibson actually looked at close photos and said it was a fake but they
> >just won't give me a bloody letter stating what they already said.
>
> Write a letter to their legal department. *Skip everyone else, send it
> to legal. *See what happens. *It is VERY important to their legal folks
> that they preserve their trademark, and if they let other people use
> it, it isn't valuable any more.
>
> The Shure folks have been VERY aggressive at pursuing counterfeits
> on Ebay. *Sennheiser is trying, but there are just so damn many fake
> Evolutions out there that it's hard.
> --scott
>
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. *C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

That's not a bad idea though its friday and I want to be done with
this chapter already. I might do that monday morning but I think a
phone call will do. I'm really sick of waiting. Thing is, I had a
mandolin of theirs die on me and I bought it new. I sent it back and
it took more then 4 months to get me another one. The neck pulled
up.... you'd think they would be better with how they treat people.
Most high end (like Avalon for instance) are really good to their
customers.

[Geoff]

Danny T wrote:
> I'm hoping maybe someone here can forward my thoughts to someone
> further up the Gibson food chain for me. They don't seem to get the
> point when I email customer service.


Not to be pedantic, but unless there is some anomally in the time-space
continuum, it is not possible for them to to take action to do something
'already', because already implies that they have,um, already done it....

geoff

[Danny T]

On Aug 23, 6:06*pm, "geoff" > wrote:
> Danny T wrote:
> > I'm hoping maybe someone here can forward my thoughts to someone
> > further up the Gibson food chain for me. They don't seem to get the
> > point when I email customer service.
>
> Not to be pedantic, but unless there is some anomally in the time-space
> continuum, it is not possible for them to to take action to do something
> 'already', because already implies that they have,um, already done it....
>
> geoff

It was - I was saying the already paid me the money back for the
guitar.... but I'd like Gibson to get it done already :-)

[Tobiah]

> But the other thing is...if it stays in tune well and has nice pickups
> (like higher end Epiphones) not too many people can tell the difference,

The Achilles heal of cheap electrics is the neck. They are often
two thick, and need high action in order to prevent buzz on every
fret.

[Danny T]

On Aug 24, 1:19*pm, Tobiah > wrote:
> > But the other thing is...if it stays in tune well and has nice pickups
> > (like higher end Epiphones) not too many people can tell the difference,
>
> The Achilles heal of cheap electrics is the neck. *They are often
> two thick, and need high action in order to prevent buzz on every
> fret.

This thing has a fret job by Picasso and a nut that looks like a
crescent moon. Its a total joke and without any salvation at all.

My money was returned but with no help from Gibson. I have had
promises from several people there and no one did what they needed to
do. I ended up getting a statement from a local store so I have my
money back. The sad part is that no one in Gibson cared enough to act
on a guy selling what looks like a lot of these. I think ebay kicked
him off but I am not positive about that. Either way, I really don't
think I'll be buying any gibson guitars for a while. I frankly won't
trust that they are real no matter where I get them. (well maybe
someplace like GC is OK)

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:09:40 -0700 (PDT), Danny T
> wrote:

>My money was returned but with no help from Gibson. I have had
>promises from several people there and no one did what they needed to
>do. I ended up getting a statement from a local store so I have my
>money back. The sad part is that no one in Gibson cared enough to act
>on a guy selling what looks like a lot of these. I think ebay kicked
>him off but I am not positive about that. Either way, I really don't
>think I'll be buying any gibson guitars for a while. I frankly won't
>trust that they are real no matter where I get them. (well maybe
>someplace like GC is OK)

This, from the Gibson website:

OK, the first half is bluster. eBay took the advert. down following
your (and maybe other) complaint. If a foreign government isn't
interested in policing copyright infringements, there's not much
Gibson can do. You'd like them to scream and shout a bit, they're
declining to do so.

But the second paragraph says it all. You saw a bargain. Bargains
are sometimes too good to be true. This one was. The fake Gibson is
our of circulation. Amazingly, you even got your money back! What
better result could you realistically expect?

•Counterfeit guitars In our constant effort to stand by our consumers,
protect them, and bring them the finest products in the world, Gibson
Guitar takes a firm and aggressive stance against all makers of
counterfeit guitars and their distribution channels. These low-budget,
inferior guitars are pale imitations of the quality, performance, and
craftsmanship of real Gibsons. We continue to hear complaints from
consumers and fans who have purchased one of these guitars from
websites and auction sites thinking they were getting a real Gibson.
The makers and sellers of counterfeits are scamming our global family
of musicians and Gibson does not take it lightly. We would like to
urge all our consumers not to be taken in by the works of dishonest
sellers.

If a guitar is being sold for a fraction of what it would typically
sell for, it is likely not a real Gibson guitar. The best way for
consumers to protect themselves against fraud is to purchase your
Gibson guitar from an authorized dealer, or consult one in advance.
You can also call Gibson Guitar Customer Service at 1-800-444-2766—24
hours a day, seven days a week—for any inquiries or advice. We
strongly urge all consumers to be careful and aware of this worldwide
problem. At Gibson, we care about our consumers, our legacy, and our
name. Remember, only a real Gibson is good enough.