Question on computer 'noise'

[Chuck]

Hi,

It's been a long, long time since I've posted here. I have a basic
question that I hope you guys/gals can help me out with.

I recently dragged a bunch of my old gear out of the closet and put my
daw system back together again. The audi interface is a presonus
firepod. The main outs of the firepod go to a pair of krk v6. The cue
outs of the firepod go to a furman ha-6a headphone amp.

Here's where the problem comes in. There is a huge amount of computer
buss noise/chatter when monitoring either through the cans conected to
the furman or the krk. This is not driver/latency related typical ****
like clicks and pops, but the sound of whirring, zooming, whizzing
computer buss activity. It's some kind of isolation issue, but nothing
I do makes ANY difference.

The headphone out on the front panel of the firepod does *not* suffer
from this problem.

Does anyone have any ideas?


Also before anyone answers consider the following :-)

1. All equipment is properly grounded.
2. I know the firepod is a piece of ****
3. I know the krk v6 are pieces of ****


Thanks
Chuck

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 11:41:42 -0700 (PDT), Chuck
> wrote:

>I recently dragged a bunch of my old gear out of the closet and put my
>daw system back together again. The audi interface is a presonus
>firepod. The main outs of the firepod go to a pair of krk v6. The cue
>outs of the firepod go to a furman ha-6a headphone amp.
>
>Here's where the problem comes in. There is a huge amount of computer
>buss noise/chatter when monitoring either through the cans conected to
>the furman or the krk. This is not driver/latency related typical ****
>like clicks and pops, but the sound of whirring, zooming, whizzing
>computer buss activity. It's some kind of isolation issue, but nothing
>I do makes ANY difference.
>
>The headphone out on the front panel of the firepod does *not* suffer
>from this problem.
>
>Does anyone have any ideas?

When you had your DAW hooked up before was it all the same gear? Same
computer in particular?

What's the computer? If a laptop, is anything improved/different when
using it on internal battery with the power supply removed? When
using it with the power supply, but with the battery physically
removed?

Is this a problem when music is playing through the system, or are you
monitoring "silence"? I remember some Presonus gear having very hot
outputs. With enough amplification, ANY system will be horrifically
noisy!

[Scott Dorsey]

Chuck > wrote:
>Here's where the problem comes in. There is a huge amount of computer
>buss noise/chatter when monitoring either through the cans conected to
>the furman or the krk. This is not driver/latency related typical ****
>like clicks and pops, but the sound of whirring, zooming, whizzing
>computer buss activity. It's some kind of isolation issue, but nothing
>I do makes ANY difference.

It's a ground loop. Or maybe it's several ground loops. Find the loop
and break it and you'll be okay.

Remember the rule: one and only one ground path from any piece of
equipment to any other.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Chuck]

On Jun 6, 3:30*pm, Laurence Payne > wrote:
> On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 11:41:42 -0700 (PDT), Chuck
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> >I recently dragged a bunch of my old gear out of the closet and put my
> >daw system back together again. The audi interface is a presonus
> >firepod. *The main outs of the firepod go to a pair of krk v6. The cue
> >outs of the firepod go to a furman ha-6a headphone amp.
>
> >Here's where the problem comes in. There is a huge amount of computer
> >buss noise/chatter when monitoring either through the cans conected to
> >the furman or the krk. This is not driver/latency related typical ****
> >like clicks and pops, but the sound of whirring, zooming, whizzing
> >computer buss activity. It's some kind of isolation issue, but nothing
> >I do makes ANY difference.
>
> >The headphone out on the front panel of the firepod does *not* suffer
> >from this problem.
>
> >Does anyone have any ideas?
>
> When you had your DAW hooked up before was it all the same gear? *Same
> computer in particular?
>
> What's the computer? *If a laptop, is anything improved/different when
> using it on internal battery with the power supply removed? *When
> using it with the power supply, but with the battery physically
> removed?
>
> Is this a problem when music is playing through the system, or are you
> monitoring "silence"? *I remember some Presonus gear having very hot
> outputs. *With enough amplification, ANY system will be horrifically
> noisy!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

HI Laurence,

Thanks for responding!

1. It's a new laptop with an expresscard 1394 adapter connected to the
firepod
2. *Holy*****, the problem disappears when the laptop is running on
batteries
3. The problem occurs when monitoring silence, event when monitoring
*nothing*, meaning the mains and cue levels turned all the way down

Thanks again
Chuck

[Chuck]

On Jun 6, 4:01*pm, "Soundhaspriority" > wrote:
> "Chuck" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > It's been a long, long time since I've posted here. I have a basic
> > question that I hope you guys/gals can help me out with.
>
> > I recently dragged a bunch of my old gear out of the closet and put my
> > daw system back together again. The audi interface is a presonus
> > firepod. *The main outs of the firepod go to a pair of krk v6. The cue
> > outs of the firepod go to a furman ha-6a headphone amp.
>
> > Here's where the problem comes in. There is a huge amount of computer
> > buss noise/chatter when monitoring either through the cans conected to
> > the furman or the krk. This is not driver/latency related typical ****
> > like clicks and pops, but the sound of whirring, zooming, whizzing
> > computer buss activity. It's some kind of isolation issue, but nothing
> > I do makes ANY difference.
>
> > The headphone out on the front panel of the firepod does *not* suffer
> > from this problem.
>
> > Does anyone have any ideas?
>
> > Also before anyone answers consider the following :-)
>
> > 1. All equipment is properly grounded.
> > 2. I know the firepod is a piece of ****
> > 3. I know the krk v6 are pieces of ****
>
> > Thanks
> > Chuck
>
> Chuck, I see this with brand new computers as well. As you say, it is actual
> diginoise. I would try grounding the Firepod. If that doesn't work, the only
> practical alternative may be transformers.
>
> Bob Morein
> (310) 237-6511- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hi Bob,

(and everone else who responded)

This was actually the first time I noticed that the firepod has a two
prong cable, goes to show how much I use it....

So riddle me this... I plugged the laptop into another outlet, that I
know is on another breaker from the firepod and the problem stops.

1. When I test the ground on the powerstrip that the krk and firepod
plugs into it shows good
2. When I test the ground on the powerstrip that the laptop is now
plugged into it shows good
3. Everything seems to work properly when the laptop and the other
equipment is on different circuits
4. If this is a basic grounding problem would #3 really be the case? I
don't think so - cause as far as I know there is one ground in my
house...

I'm not really going to delve too much more into this, as everything
is working properly, but I freaking HATE not knowing why.

Chuck

Thanks
Chuck


Chuck

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 12:50:51 -0700 (PDT), Chuck
> wrote:

>HI Laurence,
>
>Thanks for responding!
>
>1. It's a new laptop with an expresscard 1394 adapter connected to the
>firepod
>2. *Holy*****, the problem disappears when the laptop is running on
>batteries

Play around with grounding. But the answer may be simply "yeah - some
laptops are bloody noisy when on external power" :-(

[Mike Rivers]

Chuck wrote:

> 'Holy*****, the problem disappears when the laptop is running on
> batteries

That's good, and quick detective work.

This is not a rare problem with laptop computers. Is it a Toshiba? That
seemed to
be the first computer that exhibited electrical noise related to the
power system. There's
a lot of sensing and micro-charging of the battery going on and that
puts hash on your
audio. Running it on the battery is one solution, another is running it
on AC with the
battery removed. When it realizes that it has nothing to charge, it
stops trying to
measure and charge it.


--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me here:
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
)

[Badmuts[_2_]]

Does the laptop have a grounded or ungrounded plug?

[Neil[_7_]]

Take your laptop to a shop that sells power adapters and try a few
different ones. I had the same problem with my Dell Latitude. I am
using a power adapter that a friend of mine builds, absolute silence!
Neil

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 01:13:30 GMT, Mike Rivers >
wrote:

>> 'Holy*****, the problem disappears when the laptop is running on
>> batteries
>
>That's good, and quick detective work.
>
>This is not a rare problem with laptop computers. Is it a Toshiba? That
>seemed to
>be the first computer that exhibited electrical noise related to the
>power system. There's
>a lot of sensing and micro-charging of the battery going on and that
>puts hash on your
>audio. Running it on the battery is one solution, another is running it
>on AC with the
>battery removed. When it realizes that it has nothing to charge, it
>stops trying to
>measure and charge it.

Mike - are you seeing my posts in this thread (and others)? It's
flattering that we agree so often, but you're getting into a bit of a
habit of merely repeating what I said half-an-hour previously!

[Arny Krueger]

"Soundhaspriority" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Neil" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Take your laptop to a shop that sells power adapters and try a few
>> different ones. I had the same problem with my Dell Latitude. I am
>> using a power adapter that a friend of mine builds, absolute silence!
>> Neil
>
> Interesting. Can you supply a link?

Just get an isolation transformer. Look up "Topaz Ultra Isolation
Transformer".

[Mike Rivers]

Laurence Payne wrote:

> Mike - are you seeing my posts in this thread (and others)? It's
> flattering that we agree so often, but you're getting into a bit of a
> habit of merely repeating what I said half-an-hour previously!

That's not intentional. I don't always look at all of the responses
before replying to see if someone has said the same thing. Or I
might say it in a different way.

However, from what he discovered made the problem go away
it seems that there's an odd ground problem rather than a computer
power supply problem.


--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me here:
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
)

[Richard Crowley]

Badmuts wrote:
> Does the laptop have a grounded or ungrounded plug?

Typical modern "brick" laptop power supplies are notoriously noisy whether
they use a 2-pin or a 3-pin mains power plug.

I've had occasional success with lifting the green-wire ground from the
brick power plug. While this is not advisable in "normal" equipment where
the power cord connects to equipment with a metal chassis, note that a
laptop computer power brick is "double insulated" by design.

I recall seeing people who make/sell replacement *linear* supplies
specifically to eiliminate this switchmode power supply hash.

Another common solution is to use audio isolation transformers, but that is
not a solution when using external A/D and D/A conversion equipment such as
the OP is asking about.

[Chuck]

Hello Bob (and everyone else who responded)

First, thanks for replying.

Second, I will not be leaving it connected this way as it does *not*
actually work. Most of the time I am working on this I am rushing
trying to get something done between soccer games, birthday parties,
bike riding, school events, work and walking the dogs, so I'm not as
scientific in my testing as I used to be. In this case, not as
scientific means that when I moved the laptop to a different circuit I
accidentally pulled the plug supplying the KRK speaker and it wasnt
even on!

So - the noise, and I really like the description someone supplied
'diginoise' , is still very much there even with the laptop plugged
into a different circuit.

As to the suggestions of others:

1. The laptop plug is definitely three prong, not an unpolarized two
prong

2. The pre-sonus plug is two prong and polarized

3. As to the suggestion of grounding the presonus, is there a
recommended way to go about this? It's a mostly plastic case, yes
there are a few screw on it but they are are *tiny*

4. as to the notion that the problem lies in the laptop - well the
same problem exists when the unit is connected to my desktop. Yes I
shlepped the whole darn desktop up from the basement and connected it
all up, I just had never tried that before.

5. It's still really odd to me that the front panel headphones do NOT
have the problem, only the mains and cues out.

6. I'm starting to think I have a defective firepod, as I got it two
years ago at steep discount as an open box item from a store that I
don't regularly purchase from.

Thanks
Chuck

> Chuck
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------*----------------
> Chuck, plugging the two units into different circuits is actually quite
> dangerous to the equipment. You now have an inductive loop with a very large
> area. A nearby lightning strike could generate a sufficient EMP as to damage
> the firewire connection. Even a local heavy motor, like an air conditioner,
> fan, or frig, could cause a spike that would not normally be damaging, but
> with the different circuits, would be.
>
> Now as to why it worked -- is it possible that you reversed the plug
> orientation of one of the units? Laptop supplies are typically supplied with
> unpolarized plugs, so you could be plugging randomly.
>
> I know the success is tempting, but I wouldn't leave it that way.
>
> Bob Morein
> (310) 237-6511- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Chuck]

On Jun 7, 2:54*am, Neil > wrote:
> Take your laptop to a shop that sells power adapters and try a *few
> different ones. I had the same problem with my Dell Latitude. I am
> using a power adapter that a friend of mine builds, absolute silence!
> Neil

Hi Neil,

Unfortunatey that would require me taking the laptop, the presonus and
the pair of KRKs to the shop, which I would be almost willing to do,
but the 'shops' around here consist of Best Buy, Office Depot, Micro
Center, Etc. These are not the type of ships shops that would be
willing to assist me in this experiment.

Chuck

[Chuck]

On Jun 7, 7:45*am, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> "Soundhaspriority" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > "Neil" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> Take your laptop to a shop that sells power adapters and try a *few
> >> different ones. I had the same problem with my Dell Latitude. I am
> >> using a power adapter that a friend of mine builds, absolute silence!
> >> Neil
>
> > Interesting. Can you supply a link?
>
> Just get an isolation transformer. *Look up "Topaz Ultra Isolation
> Transformer".

Hi Arny,

Thank you for the suggestion. Unfortunately the item you referred me
to costs roughly the same amount as my laptop, speakers and firepod.
Since I no longer develop audio software and derive no income from
this whatsoever, it would be a rough option financially :-)

[Richard Crowley]

Chuck wrote:
> Neil wrote:
>> Take your laptop to a shop that sells power adapters and try a few
>> different ones. I had the same problem with my Dell Latitude. I am
>> using a power adapter that a friend of mine builds, absolute silence!
>> Neil
>
> Hi Neil,
>
> Unfortunatey that would require me taking the laptop, the presonus and
> the pair of KRKs to the shop, which I would be almost willing to do,
> but the 'shops' around here consist of Best Buy, Office Depot, Micro
> Center, Etc. These are not the type of ships shops that would be
> willing to assist me in this experiment.

The exercise is merely to find the proper size power connector for your
laptop. The rest of the kit is not required. In the US, the place with the
wide selection of power connectors is Radio Shack, not the general goods (or
computer) shops as you mentioned.

[Chuck]

Richard,

Thank you for the reply. Using a ground lift adapter on the laptop
completely elinates the noise.

In fact it is so silent now that the laptop fan itself is now the
major noise factor in the entire setup. I plan on quickly conquering
that with a kvm extender set.

So... What potential life threatening risks am I exposing myself and
others to, given the double insulated design you mention :-)



Thanks again for the reply, in fact thanks to everyone for the volume
and quality of replies!

Chuck


On Jun 7, 9:55*am, "Richard Crowley" > wrote:
> Badmuts wrote:
> > Does the laptop have a grounded or ungrounded plug?
>
> Typical modern "brick" laptop power supplies are notoriously noisy whether
> they use a 2-pin or a 3-pin mains power plug.
>
> I've had occasional success with lifting the green-wire ground from the
> brick power plug. While this is not advisable in "normal" equipment where
> the power cord connects to equipment with a metal chassis, note that a
> laptop computer power brick is "double insulated" by design.
>
> I recall seeing people who make/sell replacement *linear* supplies
> specifically to eiliminate this switchmode power supply hash.
>
> Another common solution is to use audio isolation transformers, but that is
> not a solution when using external A/D and D/A conversion equipment such as
> the OP is asking about.

[Scott Dorsey]

Chuck > wrote:
>Thank you for the reply. Using a ground lift adapter on the laptop
>completely elinates the noise.

Don't do it. Break signal grounds, not safety grounds.

>In fact it is so silent now that the laptop fan itself is now the
>major noise factor in the entire setup. I plan on quickly conquering
>that with a kvm extender set.
>
>So... What potential life threatening risks am I exposing myself and
>others to, given the double insulated design you mention :-)

Don't do it. Lift signal grounds instead.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers]

Chuck wrote:
> when I moved the laptop to a different circuit I
> accidentally pulled the plug supplying the KRK speaker and it wasnt
> even on!

That's a really efficient way to get rid of noise in the monitors. ;)

> I'm starting to think I have a defective firepod, as I got it two
> years ago at steep discount as an open box item from a store that I
> don't regularly purchase from.

That's quite likely. Do you have any other external audio hardware
you can try? Or even the computer's own sound card? Unfortunately,
two years later, I wouldn't expect that they would gracefully take it
back. Next time, when you buy something, whether new or used,
regardless of where you bought it, check it out thoroughly as soon
as you get it home. If it doesn't work right, don't set it aside for two
years. Either return it right away or figure out what you're doing
wrong and verify that it's OK.


--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me here:
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
)

[Chuck]

Hi Mike

"Next time, when you buy something, whether new or used,
> regardless of where you bought it, check it out thoroughly as soon
> as you get it home. If it doesn't work right, don't set it aside for two
> years."

Of course that is exceptional advice. I highly doubt there will be a
next time, unless this unit goes up in flames :-)

As per my post on another thread, and as suggested by another user,
lifting the ground on the laptop power supply via an adapter
completely eliminated the noise problem. Of course I'm open to
comments on that strategy to :-)

Chuck

On
Jun 7, 1:19*pm, Mike Rivers > wrote:
> Chuck wrote:
> > when I moved the laptop to a different circuit I
> > accidentally pulled the plug supplying the KRK speaker and it wasnt
> > even on!
>
> That's a really efficient way to get rid of noise in the monitors. ;)
>
> > *I'm starting to think I have a defective firepod, as I got it two
> > years ago at steep discount as an open box item from a store that I
> > don't regularly purchase from.
>
> That's quite likely. Do you have any other external audio hardware
> you can try? Or even the computer's own sound card? Unfortunately,
> two years later, I wouldn't expect that they would gracefully take it
> back. Next time, when you buy something, whether new or used,
> regardless of where you bought it, check it out thoroughly as soon
> as you get it home. If it doesn't work right, don't set it aside for two
> years. Either return it right away or figure out what you're doing
> wrong and verify that it's OK.
>
> --
> If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
> me here:
> double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
> )

[Mike Rivers]

Chuck wrote:

> Using a ground lift adapter on the laptop
> completely elinates the noise.

> So... What potential life threatening risks am I exposing myself and
> others to, given the double insulated design you mention :-)

Honestly, I don't think you have anything to worry about, but you
should be aware of the risk. The safety ground is there to protect
you in the event that the hot side of the AC line shorts to something
that you can touch. Since the power supply case is plastic and there's
a transformer (probably ) between the line and the computer case,
it's pretty well isolated. The worst thing that could happen is that
the power line shorts to power supply ground point, which is connected
to the laptop ground via the power cable. If you were to touch a screw
on the case, maybe when attaching a connector, you could get
zapped. But don't sue me if you do.

There's a gadget that you can buy which effectively lifts the safety
when there's no power line current flowing through it (as is the normal
condition) but lets it take the safe path if a problem develops. It's
called Hum-X fron Ebtech http://www.ebtechaudio.com It costs
lots more than it's worth (I think it's nothing more than two diodes
connected back-to-back in series with the safety ground pin) but it's
UL approved (which is probably where most of the cost comes from)
and it will keep you safe but normally ungrounded.




--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me here:
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
)

[Scott Dorsey]

Mike Rivers > wrote:
>
>There's a gadget that you can buy which effectively lifts the safety
>when there's no power line current flowing through it (as is the normal
>condition) but lets it take the safe path if a problem develops. It's
>called Hum-X fron Ebtech http://www.ebtechaudio.com It costs
>lots more than it's worth (I think it's nothing more than two diodes
>connected back-to-back in series with the safety ground pin) but it's
>UL approved (which is probably where most of the cost comes from)
>and it will keep you safe but normally ungrounded.

The thing is... if you set your house on fire by smoking in bed, and
the insurance inspectors find a piece of equipment with a lifted safety
ground, they will use it as an excuse to invalidate your insurance, etc.

So there's a safety issue and there is an issue of keeping the insurance
folks happy too, which could be as important.

Also note that whatever surge suppression is built into the power supply
just plain won't work if the ground pin is lifted.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Ben Bradley]

On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 18:02:45 -0400, "Soundhaspriority"
> wrote:

>
>"Chuck" > wrote in message
...
>On Jun 6, 4:01 pm, "Soundhaspriority" > wrote:
>> "Chuck" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>>
>>
>>
>> > Hi,
>>
>> > It's been a long, long time since I've posted here. I have a basic
>> > question that I hope you guys/gals can help me out with.
>>
>> > I recently dragged a bunch of my old gear out of the closet and put my
>> > daw system back together again. The audi interface is a presonus
>> > firepod. The main outs of the firepod go to a pair of krk v6. The cue
>> > outs of the firepod go to a furman ha-6a headphone amp.
>>
>> > Here's where the problem comes in. There is a huge amount of computer
>> > buss noise/chatter when monitoring either through the cans conected to
>> > the furman or the krk. This is not driver/latency related typical ****
>> > like clicks and pops, but the sound of whirring, zooming, whizzing
>> > computer buss activity. It's some kind of isolation issue, but nothing
>> > I do makes ANY difference.
>>
>> > The headphone out on the front panel of the firepod does *not* suffer
>> > from this problem.
>>
>> > Does anyone have any ideas?
>>
>> > Also before anyone answers consider the following :-)
>>
>> > 1. All equipment is properly grounded.
>> > 2. I know the firepod is a piece of ****
>> > 3. I know the krk v6 are pieces of ****
>>
>> > Thanks
>> > Chuck
>>
>> Chuck, I see this with brand new computers as well. As you say, it is
>> actual
>> diginoise. I would try grounding the Firepod. If that doesn't work, the
>> only
>> practical alternative may be transformers.
>>
>> Bob Morein
>> (310) 237-6511- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>(and everone else who responded)
>
>This was actually the first time I noticed that the firepod has a two
>prong cable, goes to show how much I use it....
>
>So riddle me this... I plugged the laptop into another outlet, that I
>know is on another breaker from the firepod and the problem stops.
>
>1. When I test the ground on the powerstrip that the krk and firepod
>plugs into it shows good
>2. When I test the ground on the powerstrip that the laptop is now
>plugged into it shows good
>3. Everything seems to work properly when the laptop and the other
>equipment is on different circuits
>4. If this is a basic grounding problem would #3 really be the case? I
>don't think so - cause as far as I know there is one ground in my
>house...
>
>I'm not really going to delve too much more into this, as everything
>is working properly, but I freaking HATE not knowing why.
>
>Chuck
>
>Thanks
>Chuck
>
>
>Chuck
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Chuck, plugging the two units into different circuits is actually quite
>dangerous to the equipment. You now have an inductive loop with a very large
>area. A nearby lightning strike could generate a sufficient EMP as to damage
>the firewire connection. Even a local heavy motor, like an air conditioner,
>fan, or frig, could cause a spike that would not normally be damaging, but
>with the different circuits, would be.
>
>Now as to why it worked -- is it possible that you reversed the plug
>orientation of one of the units? Laptop supplies are typically supplied with
>unpolarized plugs, so you could be plugging randomly.

Unpolarized? Well, maybe, but even the two=prong lamp cord plugs I
seen in recent years (decades?) have one blade larger than the other
to guarantee polarity. It's also possible that one power outlet has
neutral and hot swapped, and as you say that may contribute to
'fixing' the problem.

Chuck, have you tested all your outlets with a device such as this?
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=32906
That will tell you if hot and neutral are swapped, among other
problems.

>
>I know the success is tempting, but I wouldn't leave it that way.

Even if it didn't have the problem you mentioned, I'd be really
curious about what's going on.

>
>Bob Morein
>(310) 237-6511
>
>

[Mike Rivers]

Ben Bradley wrote:

> Unpolarized? Well, maybe, but even the two=prong lamp cord plugs I
> seen in recent years (decades?) have one blade larger than the other
> to guarantee polarity.

That's why they make files. <g> I have a lot of unpolarized outlets in
my house and I often have to file down a lamp plug just so I can plug
it in.



--
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[Neil[_7_]]

On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 03:41:34 -0400, "Soundhaspriority"
> wrote:

>
>"Neil" > wrote in message
...
>> Take your laptop to a shop that sells power adapters and try a few
>> different ones. I had the same problem with my Dell Latitude. I am
>> using a power adapter that a friend of mine builds, absolute silence!
>> Neil
>
>Interesting. Can you supply a link?
>
>Bob Morein
>(310) 237-6511
I can, ,as you see it is in South Africa, but the
price in South African currency would make it a bargain in the USA,
even with shipping. The supplies have a USB port in them for charging
etc, and a built in fan to keep them cool! The fan is noisy in a
studio situation, but otherwise you don't hear it,
Neil