Rhapsody in Red - comments/criticisms welcome

[Mr Soul]

Hi,

I've started a new music project which is to record some of my
favorite songs just for the fun of it! The first piece I have
recorded is a song called Rhapsody in Red (I don't want to say who did
the song and I am not tring to copy the original). I am very
fortunate to be joined by Clayton Crawford, from Redlands, CA, on lead
guitar. I am playing rhythm and bass. The drums are from The [Joe]
Vitale Collection. As for amp's, I am using my '84 Fender Super Champ
and the lead guitar is probably using modelling software recorded
directly to disk. Of course, I am doing a lot during mixdown.

I recorded this song pretty quickly and I didn't want to over-produce
it or over-track it, so it is intentionally basic. The idea was to
create a "period piece" with the sound (late 60's). I did spend a
little time trying to get a good mix. Considering the time I put into
the piece, I am quite happy with how it turned out, but I would love
to get opinions/criticisms for any one here.

Warning - I am not a great singer, but I think the vocal track was OK
for the song (you may disagree). The only thing that would have been
nice to add was a better background vocal section.

To listen, please go to my web site and click on the Fav link . You
can either play the song or save it to your hard drive. This is a192
kbps MP3 format.

Thanks.

Mike (aka Mr Soul)
http://www.MikeCressey.com

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Mr Soul wrote:

| I recorded this song pretty quickly and I didn't want to over-produce
| it or over-track it, so it is intentionally basic. The idea was to
| create a "period piece" with the sound (late 60's). I did spend a
| little time trying to get a good mix.

Hmmm ... [swish] ... [swish] ... <- knives sharpening

| Considering the time I put
| into the piece, I am quite happy with how it turned out, but I would

[swish] ... [swish]

| love to get opinions/criticisms for any one here.

We need a city ordance prohibiting recording guitars with a wire, using a
microphone on a loudspeaker should be compulsory. Especially when aiming for
"peroid sound".

[swish] ... [swish]

|| Warning - I am not a great singer, but I think the vocal track was OK
|| for the song (you may disagree).

No, your singing is somewhat better than Mr. Garcia's, although perhaps not
your timing. Ambience on vox is kinda nice.

[swish] ... [swish]

| The only thing that would have been
| nice to add was a better background vocal section.

Now well, erm, uhm, about here we kinda agree somewhat less. Your sonic
perspective is plain broken, and without relationship to a likely
positioning of sound sources. Get a valve amp, some 30 watts prolly OK, say
an old Geloso or perhaps even a Dynaco and a pair of those aftermarket D120
replacemments I just forgot the link to, and put them in an open back box,
fender style, and place it not too far from a wall and corner, and not
parallel with the wall and mic it with a pair.

| To listen, please go to my web site and click on the Fav link . You
| can either play the song or save it to your hard drive. This is a192
| kbps MP3 format.

Thanks, good enough for an evaluation. But you DO need to plan your
perspective already when miking things up, unless you really aim for the itb
project studio sound. There are many ways to get the ratio between direct
and reflected sound right, but with your mix the vox has to be played back
on say Klipsch Heresy and the guitars on a pair of Bose's and to build the
layering you need to work with that ratio. And with the pre-delay so as to
define distance to first reflecting boundary.

| Thanks

One more thing, don't slam your sound into the hard limiter fender, get it
right earlier on so that it slides in place. And DO stay out of the upper dB
because it will get louder when mp3's are unpacked

Literature and examples: my mixes on the raw tracks site. I've moved on, and
I do things differnenty now, but they are still nice style examples.

|| Mike (aka Mr Soul)
|| http://www.MikeCressey.com

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Mr Soul]

On Jun 5, 10:13*am, "Peter Larsen" > wrote:
> Mr Soul wrote:
>
> | I recorded this song pretty quickly and I didn't want to over-produce
> | it or over-track it, so it is intentionally basic. *The idea was to
> | create a "period piece" with the sound (late 60's). *I did spend a
> | little time trying to get a good mix.
>
> Hmmm ... [swish] ... [swish] ... <- knives sharpening
>
> | *Considering the time I put
> | into the piece, I am quite happy with how it turned out, but I would
>
> [swish] ... [swish]
>
> | love to get opinions/criticisms for any one here.
>
> We need a city ordance prohibiting recording guitars with a wire, using a
> microphone on a loudspeaker should be compulsory. Especially when aiming for
> "peroid sound".
>
> [swish] ... [swish]
>
> || Warning - I am not a great singer, but I think the vocal track was OK
> || for the song (you may disagree).
>
> No, your singing is somewhat better than Mr. Garcia's, although perhaps not
> your timing. Ambience on vox is kinda nice.
>
> [swish] ... [swish]
>
> | The only thing that would have been
> | nice to add was a better background vocal section.
>
> Now well, erm, uhm, about here we kinda agree somewhat less. Your sonic
> perspective is plain broken, and without relationship to a likely
> positioning of sound sources. Get a valve amp, some 30 watts prolly OK, say
> an old Geloso or perhaps even a Dynaco and a pair of those aftermarket D120
> replacemments I just forgot the link to, and put them in an open back box,
> fender style, and place it not too far from a wall and corner, and not
> parallel with the wall and mic it with a pair.
>
> | To listen, please go to my web site and click on the Fav link . *You
> | can either play the song or save it to your hard drive. *This is a192
> | kbps MP3 format.
>
> Thanks, good enough for an evaluation. But you DO need to plan your
> perspective already when miking things up, unless you really aim for the itb
> project studio sound. There are many ways to get the ratio between direct
> and reflected sound right, but with your mix the vox has to be played back
> on say Klipsch Heresy and the guitars on a pair of Bose's and to build the
> layering you need to work with that ratio. And with the pre-delay so as to
> define distance to first reflecting boundary.
>
> | Thanks
>
> One more thing, don't slam your sound into the hard limiter fender, get it
> right earlier on so that it slides in place. And DO stay out of the upper dB
> because it will get louder when mp3's are unpacked
>
> Literature and examples: my mixes on the raw tracks site. I've moved on, and
> I do things differnenty now, but they are still nice style examples.
>
> || Mike (aka Mr Soul)
> ||http://www.MikeCressey.com
>
> * Kind regards
>
> * Peter Larsen
Hi Peter - thanks for giving it a listen.

The rhythm guitar was recorded through my Super Champ tube amp into an
open backed cabinet with a Jensen goldback 12" speaker and a Shure
condensor mic. The lead guitar, however, probably was recorded with
modelling software (I never asked how he did it).

I am trying to interpret some of these things you said but I'm having
a little trouble comprehending your suggestions. Perhaps I shouldn't
have said I was trying to do a "period piece". Heck - I'm just trying
to get a good recording & mix.

Also what is the raw tracks site?

Thanks again.

Mike

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Mr Soul wrote:

|| We need a city ordance prohibiting recording guitars with a wire,
|| using a microphone on a loudspeaker should be compulsory. Especially
|| when aiming for "peroid sound".

| The rhythm guitar was recorded through my Super Champ tube amp into an
| open backed cabinet with a Jensen goldback 12" speaker and a Shure
| condensor mic. The lead guitar, however, probably was recorded with
| modelling software (I never asked how he did it).

Yes yes yes, but the distance should have been feet rather inches. I know
this because of one of those early recordings that didn't get very well
because I goofed in so many ways, but I DID get the most wonderful sound of
an open back cabinet by not being close to it.

Now, with a classical recording perspective on things I know that most of
what I tried to do was right, but that is another tale and a beginner has no
chances when the elecronics repair guy that makes the mic cables for him
overlooks the wiring difference between a "HL" and a "N". That's another
tale ....

|| Now well, erm, uhm, about here we kinda agree somewhat less. Your
|| sonic perspective is plain broken, and without relationship to a
|| likely positioning of sound sources.

You ask for an elaboration. Your mix perspective is .. sans relistening ....

rearmost: singer(s)

virtual drumkit

backline

but a band is:

drumkit

backline

singer(s)

or

backline

drumkit

singer(s)

I'm not advocating which setup is better, but I haven't been to very many
concert with the singer behind the orchestra. In my opinion you should plan
what setup you aim to mimic beforehand, because you need to have it in mind
when selecting what miking distance to use. You also need to respect
absolute left and right along the recording setup mid axis, there is always
the bleed and it is unavoidable to get some real stereo information
included, you might as well work with it as do battle with it. My
experieence with live recordigns is that trying to move something across the
center line will do damage to perspective and stereo image.

|| Literature and examples: my mixes on the raw tracks site. I've moved
|| on, and I do things differnenty now, but they are still nice style
|| examples.

| Also what is the raw tracks site?

http://raw-tracks.com

| I am trying to interpret some of these things you said but I'm having
| a little trouble comprehending your suggestions. Perhaps I shouldn't
| have said I was trying to do a "period piece". Heck - I'm just trying
| to get a good recording & mix.

You might like my 70-ties style guitar sound .... that site is a great place
to get stuff to learn with, also because you can compare your outcome with
the results other people get.

| Mike

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Mr Soul]

Peter - thanks agains for the comments. I thought the vocal track was
quite prominent which is why I mixed it where I did. BTW - did you
hear a lot of flat notes? Several people said that there were but I
listened to raw vocal track and I cannot really find any.

Thanks.

Mike

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Mr Soul wrote:

| Peter - thanks agains for the comments. I thought the vocal track
| was quite prominent which is why I mixed it where I did. BTW - did
| you hear a lot of flat notes?

You asked about the recording.

| Several people said that there were
| but I listened to raw vocal track and I cannot really find any.

To me the chord you sing is flat, but perhaps not the intonation, you're
probably just too tense.

From the sound of it is not something that simple "fix Susan Boyle"
harmonizing and reverb tricks can address, but there are some very costly
autotune systems out there, and they may be able to stuff that my gp toolkit
in Audition can't.

One of the Susan Boyle vidoes linked to by someone on some newspaper site
was to a live performance where the sound is really quickly dialed in.
Amazing what technology can do .... amazing, she may just have been tense
that day, it is not for me to comment on that, but they *did* present her
very well with technology very swiftly, assertively and skilfully applied.
Which also is to claim that such talent shows have results that potentially
are totally what the producers or - worst case - the advertizers - want.

Try some vocal tract relaxation tecnniques, you sound tense a "wrong way".
And get your posture right, sing with a book balancing on the top of your
head, it could be something simple as pushing the chin forwards that screws
it up for you. The Alexander technique worked wonders for a danish singer,
Daimi, she got several inches taller when ""unfolded"" and got a lot more
power from it.

|| Mike

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Mr Soul]

> To me the chord you sing is flat, but perhaps not the intonation, you're
> probably just too tense.
Hmm - don't know how to interpret that? I listened to just the vocal
& guitar parts and the vocal track is in the key E as is the song. I
do use sing a lot of F# transition notes which may sound funny to some
people. There may be some passing notes that are flat but the main
root of the vocal track is E.

> Try some vocal tract relaxation tecnniques, you sound tense a "wrong way".
> And get your posture right, sing with a book balancing on the top of your
> head, it could be something simple as pushing the chin forwards that screws
> it up for you. The Alexander technique worked wonders for a danish singer,
> Daimi, she got several inches taller when ""unfolded"" and got a lot more
> power from it.
I definitely wasn't warmed up vocally when I recorded the song but
this is rock 'n' roll - right? I didn't want it to sound all "slick"
and operatic. That's one of the things I cannot stand about today's
pop music - all the singers are "perfect" now and their voices sound
too good (IMO). Having said that, there's always room for some
improvement in vocals.

Mike

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Mr Soul wrote:

||| To me the chord you sing is flat, but perhaps not the intonation,
||| you're probably just too tense.

| Hmm - don't know how to interpret that?

You sound as if a lot of muscles that should be relaxed are tense and that
makes the overtones end up wrong, what you sing is always a chord, never
just a single tone, the voice is not a sinewave tone generator.

| I definitely wasn't warmed up vocally when I recorded the song but
| this is rock 'n' roll - right?

Yes, but you still need to warm up and to relax even if you want to do
things "wrong" on purpose. There is no right and wrong as a voice artist
mind ya, there is only the way to end up needing surgery or the way to not
ever need it. To do things "wrong" and get away with it just requires better
technnique.

| I didn't want it to sound all "slick" and operatic.

Not to worry, just keep that 57 close and sing as if it wasn't there.

| That's one of the things I cannot stand about today's
| pop music - all the singers are "perfect" now and their voices sound
| too good (IMO). Having said that, there's always room for some
| improvement in vocals.

Garcia was a squeaker without power, impo partly because of smoking and
possibly including alternative organically grown tobacco, but he had great
timing and was a good singer nonetheless.

Be yourself and release your voice from the strained singing. Doing that
will give you projection and staying power and a lot better purity of tone
which you then can use to intonate incorrectly if you so wish.

Not bad music btw. - and not a bad recording either, definitely worth all
the ascii .... thanks!

| Mike

Kind regards

Peter Larsen