Need some help on audio equip

[mre]

I have 4 very large speaker cabinets that were given to me by my
neighbor about 2 years ago. He is a local DJ and he was changing out
his speakers and asked me if I wanted his old ones and of course I
jumped on it. 2 of the cabinets are Community CSX40B's, with 2 15"
speakers. They are rated 4 ohm, 250 watt continuous, 600 watt program.
They each have 1 1/4" phono jack input for single use and 4 parallel
input for system sound. These cabinets are extremely heavy. I also
have 2 smaller cabinets made by community with a driver horn and 1 15"
in each cabinet. I can't post the info on the other 2 right now
because they are out in my shop but if need be I can post that later.
What I am trying to find out is what would be the best amp setup to
power these 4 cabinets?? I have hooked 1 of the twin 15" cabinets to
a Sony home theater amp I have but it just doesn't have the power to
drive even the one. When I was a drummer in bands years ago we used
similar speaker cabinets and had huge amps to drive them. Things have
changed so much over the years, and I haven't kept up all the
different amps now out on the market. I'm thinking I'm probably going
to have to run these through some time of amp/mixer board set up?? I
sure would appreciate any help I can get on setting these up the right
way for outdoor gatherings on our place. We have lots of room here and
need to fill the air! Thanks in advance for your help everybody.

[Dave]

"mre" > wrote in message
...
>I have 4 very large speaker cabinets that were given to me by my
> neighbor about 2 years ago. He is a local DJ and he was changing out
> his speakers and asked me if I wanted his old ones and of course I
> jumped on it. 2 of the cabinets are Community CSX40B's, with 2 15"
> speakers. They are rated 4 ohm, 250 watt continuous, 600 watt program.
> They each have 1 1/4" phono jack input for single use and 4 parallel
> input for system sound. These cabinets are extremely heavy. I also
> have 2 smaller cabinets made by community with a driver horn and 1 15"
> in each cabinet. I can't post the info on the other 2 right now
> because they are out in my shop but if need be I can post that later.
> What I am trying to find out is what would be the best amp setup to
> power these 4 cabinets?? I have hooked 1 of the twin 15" cabinets to
> a Sony home theater amp I have but it just doesn't have the power to
> drive even the one. When I was a drummer in bands years ago we used
> similar speaker cabinets and had huge amps to drive them. Things have
> changed so much over the years, and I haven't kept up all the
> different amps now out on the market. I'm thinking I'm probably going
> to have to run these through some time of amp/mixer board set up?? I
> sure would appreciate any help I can get on setting these up the right
> way for outdoor gatherings on our place. We have lots of room here and
> need to fill the air! Thanks in advance for your help everybody.

First off I'd be very wary of driving a 4-ohm speaker with a home theatre
amp, especially at high volume. Most lo-fi/mid-fi consumer-grade gear these
days isn't built to drive anything under 6 ohms. They tend to run hot at
the best of times and low-impedance loads will definitely shorten the life
of the amp, sometimes drastically.

Those speakers would likely appreciate some big clean power. A commercial
amp such as a Crown or a QSC or pro-grade Yamaha or Carver among others
would fit the bill. In addition to having the proper connectors (balanced
TRS 1/4") they are all rated for continuous 4-ohm service, most of them can
run at 2 ohms, some even below that. Many vintage amps could do the job as
well... Luxman, Nikko, Technics, all their older stuff is rated for 4-ohm
service. One downside to many of the professional amps is that they've got
fans which do create some noise... not bad if it's sitting in a rack
backstage but noisy enough to be annoying listening to solo vocalists at
background level in your livingroom.

If you're short on cash, Behringer makes a really nice 500w power amp... I
don't necessarily like to support Behringer, who have been caught
reverse-engineering other company's products and putting out low-cost
knockoffs, but many don't have my aversion to this practice. Your call.

You mentioned model #'s for the enclosures but not the drivers. Depending
on what the efficiency is of these speakers, you may not need a ton of power
to drive them loud enough to deafen you... but you will definitely need an
amp rated to drive a 4-ohm load. There are lots of 'em around.

[Arny Krueger]

"mre" > wrote in message


> I have 4 very large speaker cabinets that were given to
> me by my neighbor about 2 years ago. He is a local DJ and
> he was changing out his speakers and asked me if I wanted
> his old ones and of course I jumped on it.

You want loud?

You got loud!

> 2 of the
> cabinets are Community CSX40B's, with 2 15" speakers.
> They are rated 4 ohm, 250 watt continuous, 600 watt
> program. They each have 1 1/4" phono jack input for
> single use and 4 parallel input for system sound. These
> cabinets are extremely heavy. I also have 2 smaller
> cabinets made by community with a driver horn and 1 15"
> in each cabinet. I can't post the info on the other 2
> right now because they are out in my shop but if need be
> I can post that later. What I am trying to find out is
> what would be the best amp setup to power these 4
> cabinets??

Depends on what you want to do with them. Fill the nearby sports stadium
with sound? Listen string quartets?

> I have hooked 1 of the twin 15" cabinets to a
> Sony home theater amp I have but it just doesn't have the
> power to drive even the one.

I doubt that.

> When I was a drummer in
> bands years ago we used similar speaker cabinets and had
> huge amps to drive them.

Oh, drummer - you just might be a little hearing-challenged. ;-)

> Things have changed so much over
> the years, and I haven't kept up all the different amps
> now out on the market. I'm thinking I'm probably going to
> have to run these through some time of amp/mixer board
> set up??

Possibly a good idea.

> I sure would appreciate any help I can get on
> setting these up the right way for outdoor gatherings on
> our place.

OK, so now we have your application.

> We have lots of room here and need to fill the
> air! Thanks in advance for your help everybody.

So what's your budget?

If on the low side, then get a small Behringer Mixer and a big Behringer
amplifier.

Mixer - Xenyx 1204
Amplifier - EP 2500

[mre]

On May 4, 2:49*pm, "Dave" > wrote:
> "mre" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> >I have 4 very large speaker cabinets that were given to me by my
> > neighbor about 2 years ago. He is a local DJ and he was changing out
> > his speakers and asked me if I wanted his old ones and of course I
> > jumped on it. 2 of the cabinets are Community CSX40B's, with 2 15"
> > speakers. They are rated 4 ohm, 250 watt continuous, 600 watt program.
> > They each have 1 1/4" phono jack input for single use and 4 parallel
> > input for system sound. These cabinets are extremely heavy. I also
> > have 2 smaller cabinets made by community with a driver horn and 1 15"
> > in each cabinet. I can't post the info on the other 2 right now
> > because they are out in my shop but if need be I can post that later.
> > What I am trying to find out is what would be the best amp setup to
> > power these 4 cabinets?? *I have hooked 1 of the twin 15" cabinets to
> > a Sony home theater amp I have but it just doesn't have the power to
> > drive even the one. When I was a drummer in bands years ago we used
> > similar speaker cabinets and had huge amps to drive them. Things have
> > changed so much over the years, and I haven't kept up all the
> > different amps now out on the market. I'm thinking I'm probably going
> > to have to run these through some time of amp/mixer board set up?? I
> > sure would appreciate any help I can get on setting these up the right
> > way for outdoor gatherings on our place. We have lots of room here and
> > need to fill the air! Thanks in advance for your help everybody.
>
> First off I'd be very wary of driving a 4-ohm speaker with a home theatre
> amp, especially at high volume. *Most lo-fi/mid-fi consumer-grade gear these
> days isn't built to drive anything under 6 ohms. *They tend to run hot at
> the best of times and low-impedance loads will definitely shorten the life
> of the amp, sometimes drastically.
>
> Those speakers would likely appreciate some big clean power. *A commercial
> amp such as a Crown or a QSC or pro-grade Yamaha or Carver among others
> would fit the bill. *In addition to having the proper connectors (balanced
> TRS 1/4") they are all rated for continuous 4-ohm service, most of them can
> run at 2 ohms, some even below that. *Many vintage amps could do the job as
> well... Luxman, Nikko, Technics, all their older stuff is rated for 4-ohm
> service. *One downside to many of the professional amps is that they've got
> fans which do create some noise... not bad if it's sitting in a rack
> backstage but noisy enough to be annoying listening to solo vocalists at
> background level in your livingroom.
>
> If you're short on cash, Behringer makes a really nice 500w power amp... I
> don't necessarily like to support Behringer, who have been caught
> reverse-engineering other company's products and putting out low-cost
> knockoffs, but many don't have my aversion to this practice. *Your call..
>
> You mentioned model #'s for the enclosures but not the drivers. *Depending
> on what the efficiency is of these speakers, you may not need a ton of power
> to drive them loud enough to deafen you... but you will definitely need an
> amp rated to drive a 4-ohm load. *There are lots of 'em around.

Dave
Thanks very much for your help. There are some things that I had
forgotten about speakers and you helped to turn on the light. I can
see that I will have to do some searching for the right amp. I'll try
and get the numbers off the driver cabinets this weekend and get them
posted. I'm not afraid to spend the money but I don't want to go to
high because they won't be used every day. My audio set up will mostly
be used for outdoor setup's when we have parties and picnics at our
home. We usually have some pretty big parties and such in the summer
and now having the right speakers for sound I just want to make sure I
have the amps to power them. Thanks for your expertise and help.
You've given me some great places to get started in my search for the
right amp. I'll let you know what happens.

[mre]

On May 6, 9:03*am, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> "mre" > wrote in message
>
>
>
> > I have 4 very large speaker cabinets that were given to
> > me by my neighbor about 2 years ago. He is a local DJ and
> > he was changing out his speakers and asked me if I wanted
> > his old ones and of course I jumped on it.
>
> You want loud?
>
> You got loud!
>
> > 2 of the
> > cabinets are Community CSX40B's, with 2 15" speakers.
> > They are rated 4 ohm, 250 watt continuous, 600 watt
> > program. They each have 1 1/4" phono jack input for
> > single use and 4 parallel input for system sound. These
> > cabinets are extremely heavy. I also have 2 smaller
> > cabinets made by community with a driver horn and 1 15"
> > in each cabinet. I can't post the info on the other 2
> > right now because they are out in my shop but if need be
> > I can post that later. What I am trying to find out is
> > what would be the best amp setup to power these 4
> > cabinets??
>
> Depends on what you want to do with them. Fill the nearby sports stadium
> with sound? Listen string quartets?
>
> > I have hooked 1 of the twin 15" cabinets to a
> > Sony home theater amp I have but it just doesn't have the
> > power to drive even the one.
>
> I doubt that.
>
> > When I was a drummer in
> > bands years ago we used similar speaker cabinets and had
> > huge amps to drive them.
>
> Oh, drummer - you just might be a little hearing-challenged. ;-)
>
> > Things have changed so much over
> > the years, and I haven't kept up all the different amps
> > now out on the market. I'm thinking I'm probably going to
> > have to run these through some time of amp/mixer board
> > set up??
>
> Possibly a good idea.
>
> > I sure would appreciate any help I can get on
> > setting these up the right way for outdoor gatherings on
> > our place.
>
> OK, so now we have your application.
>
> > We have lots of room here and need to fill the
> > air! Thanks in advance for your help everybody.
>
> So what's your budget?
>
> If on the low side, then get a small Behringer Mixer and a big Behringer
> amplifier.
>
> Mixer - Xenyx 1204
> Amplifier - EP 2500

Arney
Thanks for your information and help! Do you think that the mixer and
amp would be a better choice then just going with an amp to drive the
speakers? I want loud but I also want sound quality. I don't have a
stadium to fill but I do have 8 acres of open air here to fill when we
get parties and picnics going. We usually have a lot going on in the
summer and that is when the equipment would mostly be used and in an
outdoor setting. You asked what my budget is. I would like to stay
between $1000 - $2000 because the equipment will not be used on a
daily basis so I don't want to tie up an extreme amount in the amp.
The Sony home theater amp did power the one cabinet enough to get
sound out of it but it sounded really lame and even with the amp
driven up to max when I did try it, the speaker was just about
working. I see now that a lot of that was due to the speakers being 4
ohm and I was trying to drive them with an 8 ohm amp. I can see that
it's gonna take some time to find the right amp or mixer/amp combo to
work these speakers they way they should be. Oh yea as far as my
hearing? LOL Yea I guess you could say I might be slightly deficient
there. After playing years with stacked Marshalls and other various
amps behind me, it had a small effect on my hearing :-) Thanks again
for your post, your help and knowledge Arny. I'll let you know what I
find but you've given me some great ideas.

[Richard Crowley]

"mre" wrote ...
> Thanks for your information and help! Do you think that the mixer and
> amp would be a better choice then just going with an amp to drive the
> speakers?

You do not need a mixer for driving speakers. If "driving speakers"
is the only consideration, then you would be wasting your money
on a mixer, money that you really need for power amps to drive
those speakers in a large outdoor application.

> I want loud but I also want sound quality. I don't have a
> stadium to fill but I do have 8 acres of open air here to fill when we
> get parties and picnics going. We usually have a lot going on in the
> summer and that is when the equipment would mostly be used and in an
> outdoor setting.

What does "a lot going on in the summer" mean? Does it mean
playing music from some prerecorded source? If so, then again
you would probably be wasting money on a mixer. OTOH, if
you are talking about reinforcement for live acts, then mixer, mics,
stands, cables, etc. are likely required.

[Arny Krueger]

"Richard Crowley" > wrote in message


> "mre" wrote ...

>> Thanks for your information and help! Do you think that
>> the mixer and amp would be a better choice then just
>> going with an amp to drive the speakers?

> You do not need a mixer for driving speakers. If "driving
> speakers" is the only consideration, then you would be
> wasting your money on a mixer, money that you really need for power amps
> to
> drive those speakers in a large outdoor application.

Small mixers are good enough and cheap enough (under $100) that they are a
pretty good solution for many audio applications. They are generally stereo
and have some RCA jack inputs and outputs. Some of the larger ones even
have USB or FW I/O so that they can be concurrently used for recording and
play back with a PC.

Their standard output levels are compatible with most power amps. either
consumer or audio production.

[Mr.T]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Richard Crowley" > wrote in message
>
> > "mre" wrote ...
>
> >> Thanks for your information and help! Do you think that
> >> the mixer and amp would be a better choice then just
> >> going with an amp to drive the speakers?
>
> > You do not need a mixer for driving speakers. If "driving
> > speakers" is the only consideration, then you would be
> > wasting your money on a mixer, money that you really need for power amps
> > to drive those speakers in a large outdoor application.
>
> Small mixers are good enough and cheap enough (under $100) that they are a
> pretty good solution for many audio applications. They are generally
stereo
> and have some RCA jack inputs and outputs. Some of the larger ones even
> have USB or FW I/O so that they can be concurrently used for recording and
> play back with a PC.
>
> Their standard output levels are compatible with most power amps. either
> consumer or audio production.

All true, but still unnecessary if he just wants to plug a CD player into
the amplifier.
Only he knows whether he needs to do more than that however.

MrT.

[Arny Krueger]

"Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Richard Crowley" > wrote in message
>>
>>> "mre" wrote ...
>>
>>>> Thanks for your information and help! Do you think
>>>> that the mixer and amp would be a better choice then
>>>> just going with an amp to drive the speakers?
>>
>>> You do not need a mixer for driving speakers. If
>>> "driving
>>> speakers" is the only consideration, then you would be
>>> wasting your money on a mixer, money that you really
>>> need for power amps to drive those speakers in a large
>>> outdoor application.
>>
>> Small mixers are good enough and cheap enough (under
>> $100) that they are a pretty good solution for many
>> audio applications. They are generally stereo and have
>> some RCA jack inputs and outputs. Some of the larger
>> ones even have USB or FW I/O so that they can be
>> concurrently used for recording and play back with a PC.
>>
>> Their standard output levels are compatible with most
>> power amps. either consumer or audio production.

> All true, but still unnecessary if he just wants to plug
> a CD player into the amplifier.
> Only he knows whether he needs to do more than that
> however.

I have one application at church where that's all we do, plug the DVD player
audio into the mic mixer and off to the power amp. The single mic input
with no phantom is just a decoration on what amounts to be a $40 volume
control in a box.

[Mr.T]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> >> Small mixers are good enough and cheap enough (under
> >> $100) that they are a pretty good solution for many
> >> audio applications. They are generally stereo and have
> >> some RCA jack inputs and outputs. Some of the larger
> >> ones even have USB or FW I/O so that they can be
> >> concurrently used for recording and play back with a PC.
> >>
> >> Their standard output levels are compatible with most
> >> power amps. either consumer or audio production.
>
> > All true, but still unnecessary if he just wants to plug
> > a CD player into the amplifier.
> > Only he knows whether he needs to do more than that
> > however.
>
> I have one application at church where that's all we do, plug the DVD
player
> audio into the mic mixer and off to the power amp. The single mic input
> with no phantom is just a decoration on what amounts to be a $40 volume
> control in a box.

And considering many power amps and most CD players have volume controls
already, even a $40 "volume control in a box" may not be necessary.
If you think it is for your needs then fine, only the OP can say what *he*
needs.

MrT.

[Arny Krueger]

"Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message


> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...

>>>> Small mixers are good enough and cheap enough (under
>>>> $100) that they are a pretty good solution for many
>>>> audio applications. They are generally stereo and have
>>>> some RCA jack inputs and outputs. Some of the larger
>>>> ones even have USB or FW I/O so that they can be
>>>> concurrently used for recording and play back with a
>>>> PC.
>
>>>> Their standard output levels are compatible with most
>>>> power amps. either consumer or audio production.

>>> All true, but still unnecessary if he just wants to plug
>>> a CD player into the amplifier.

>>> Only he knows whether he needs to do more than that
>>> however.

>> I have one application at church where that's all we do,
>> plug the DVD player audio into the mic mixer and off to
>> the power amp. The single mic input with no phantom is
>> just a decoration on what amounts to be a $40 volume
>> control in a box.

> And considering many power amps and most CD players have
> volume controls already, even a $40 "volume control in a
> box" may not be necessary.

Virtually every power amp I've ever seen has separate volume controls for
each channel, so operating them in tandem is inconvenient.

I know of no inexpensive CD or DVD players (under US$40) that have internal
volume controls.

> If you think it is for your needs then fine, only the OP
> can say what *he* needs.

That's why it was offered as an alternative, not a requirement.

[Dave]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> Virtually every power amp I've ever seen has separate volume controls for
> each channel, so operating them in tandem is inconvenient.
>
> I know of no inexpensive CD or DVD players (under US$40) that have
> internal volume controls.
>
>> If you think it is for your needs then fine, only the OP
>> can say what *he* needs.
>
> That's why it was offered as an alternative, not a requirement.
>
>
>
Nuttin' personal, but your sampling of cd/dvd players must be limited. I'd
say MOST of the el-cheapo-deluxe DVD players I've run across have a volume
control on the analog side... perhaps not widely advertised, but it's there
on the remote.