Setting Impedance and Using A Speaker Selector

[John[_46_]]

I need a little help understanding impedance settings from the
experts.Im going to be using a Monster Cable 6 speaker selector box
(SS-6) with 4pr of 8ohm speakers. Each pr of speakers will have its
own volume control and not all speakers will be on all the time. My
amp is 8ohms. From all the information Ive read I should set the
impedance on the volume controls to 4x, but nothing factors in the
speaker selector.

What if only 1pr of speakers is "active", should the impedance be set
at 1x? Does the speaker selector have anything to do with my impedance
setting?
Thanks
John

[Richard Crowley]

"John" wrote...
>I need a little help understanding impedance settings from the
> experts.Im going to be using a Monster Cable 6 speaker selector box
> (SS-6) with 4pr of 8ohm speakers. Each pr of speakers will have its
> own volume control and not all speakers will be on all the time. My
> amp is 8ohms.

How much power is the amplifier rated for? What is the application?
(i.e. is it "background-mood music", or a high-level disco?) That
speaker switch box uses series resistors to protect the amplifier
from overloading when multiple sets of speakers are switched on.
Much of the amplifier power will be wasted heating up these
resistors vs. producing any sound in your speakers. Note also
that virtually everything Monster sells is ridiculously overpriced.

> From all the information Ive read

We don't know what information have you read?

> I should set the impedance on the volume controls to 4x,
> but nothing factors in the speaker selector.

What volume controls? What does the impedance selector on
these volume controls do? Does it switch in even more series
resistors (which will dissipate even more audio signal)?

Feeding a large number of switched speakers plus volume controls
from a single amplifier at 8 ohms is a very tricky proposition
and something that professionals generally avoid for that reason.
Unless you are running a low-level ("background music") system,
I would recommend against your proposed configuration.

The prefered method of feeding multiple speakers such as you are
proposing is to use the "constant voltage" (aka. "70V system") scheme.

> What if only 1pr of speakers is "active", should the impedance be set
> at 1x? Does the speaker selector have anything to do with my impedance
> setting?

Since we don't know what your "volume control" is, nobody can
really answer that.

[John[_46_]]

I have a Pioneer home theater receiver rated @ 100w. Its always in
use, I pipe my TV audio throught it as well as my dvd player. It's
also my main radio. I'm looking to add three pair of out door deck
speakers using the monster speaker selector.

Each pair of speakers will have separate volume controls, I'm using
Jobsite V12-AWE controls.(http://www.jobsitesystems.com/
product_result.php?prodID=V-12/AWE&recordID=12%20Step%20All
%20Weather&categoryID=Volume%20Controls&catcdID=6&prdcdID=FG01119)

Each volume control has Adjustable Impedance: 1x, 2x, 4x, 8x settings.
From the information I have read on the internet I need to set these
so the amp does not over heat. However nothing I have read mentions if
a speaker selector effects impedance. One of my thoughts was that the
speaker selector takes care of matching the impedance so there is no
need to also worry about setting it on the volume controls.

When I say from what I have read, I mean the various web sites I have
found reference impedance matching on the internet.

Thanks
John



> How much power is the amplifier rated for? *What is the application?
> (i.e. is it "background-mood music", or a high-level disco?) That
> speaker switch box uses series resistors to protect the amplifier
> from overloading when multiple sets of speakers are switched on.
> Much of the amplifier power will be wasted heating up these
> resistors vs. producing any sound in your speakers. *Note also
> that virtually everything Monster sells is ridiculously overpriced.


> What volume controls? *What does the impedance selector on
> these volume controls do? *Does it switch in even more series
> resistors (which will dissipate even more audio signal)?
>
> Feeding a large number of switched speakers plus volume controls
> from a single amplifier at 8 ohms is a very tricky proposition
> and something that professionals generally avoid for that reason.
> Unless you are running a low-level ("background music") system,
> I would recommend against your proposed configuration.
>
> The prefered method of feeding multiple speakers such as you are
> proposing is to use the "constant voltage" (aka. "70V system") scheme.
>
> > What if only 1pr of speakers is "active", should the impedance be set
> > at 1x? Does the speaker selector have anything to do with my impedance
> > setting?
>
> Since we don't know what your "volume control" is, nobody can
> really answer that.

[GregS[_3_]]

In article >, John > wrote:
>I have a Pioneer home theater receiver rated @ 100w. Its always in
>use, I pipe my TV audio throught it as well as my dvd player. It's
>also my main radio. I'm looking to add three pair of out door deck
>speakers using the monster speaker selector.
>
>Each pair of speakers will have separate volume controls, I'm using
>Jobsite V12-AWE controls.(http://www.jobsitesystems.com/
>product_result.php?prodID=3DV-12/AWE&recordID=3D12%20Step%20All
>%20Weather&categoryID=3DVolume%20Controls&catcdID=3D6&prdcdID=3DFG01119)
>
>Each volume control has Adjustable Impedance: 1x, 2x, 4x, 8x settings.
>From the information I have read on the internet I need to set these
>so the amp does not over heat. However nothing I have read mentions if
>a speaker selector effects impedance. One of my thoughts was that the
>speaker selector takes care of matching the impedance so there is no
>need to also worry about setting it on the volume controls.
>
>When I say from what I have read, I mean the various web sites I have
>found reference impedance matching on the internet.
>
>Thanks
>John

If you need matching between the outside speakers I guess the box will work,
but I would get another amplifier to drive that. Two possible problems are the
response settings of the L and R. The other problem is most home theater amps
are not heavy duty.


greg

>
>> How much power is the amplifier rated for? =A0What is the application?
>> (i.e. is it "background-mood music", or a high-level disco?) That
>> speaker switch box uses series resistors to protect the amplifier
>> from overloading when multiple sets of speakers are switched on.
>> Much of the amplifier power will be wasted heating up these
>> resistors vs. producing any sound in your speakers. =A0Note also
>> that virtually everything Monster sells is ridiculously overpriced.
>
>
>> What volume controls? =A0What does the impedance selector on
>> these volume controls do? =A0Does it switch in even more series
>> resistors (which will dissipate even more audio signal)?
>>
>> Feeding a large number of switched speakers plus volume controls
>> from a single amplifier at 8 ohms is a very tricky proposition
>> and something that professionals generally avoid for that reason.
>> Unless you are running a low-level ("background music") system,
>> I would recommend against your proposed configuration.
>>
>> The prefered method of feeding multiple speakers such as you are
>> proposing is to use the "constant voltage" (aka. "70V system") scheme.
>>
>> > What if only 1pr of speakers is "active", should the impedance be set
>> > at 1x? Does the speaker selector have anything to do with my impedance
>> > setting?
>>
>> Since we don't know what your "volume control" is, nobody can
>> really answer that.
>

[Richard Crowley]

"John" wrote...
> I have a Pioneer home theater receiver rated @ 100w. Its always in
> use, I pipe my TV audio throught it as well as my dvd player. It's
> also my main radio. I'm looking to add three pair of out door deck
> speakers using the monster speaker selector.

The rated power seems pretty low to try to be using it to drive
so many sets of speakers. Again, unless you are only talking
about low-level "background music" application.

Not clear why you don't just use a portable radio on the deck?

> Each pair of speakers will have separate volume controls, I'm using
> Jobsite V12-AWE controls.(http://www.jobsitesystems.com/
> product_result.php?prodID=V-12/AWE&recordID=12%20Step%20All
> %20Weather&categoryID=Volume%20Controls&catcdID=6&prdcdID=FG01119)
>
> Each volume control has Adjustable Impedance: 1x, 2x, 4x, 8x settings.
> From the information I have read on the internet I need to set these
> so the amp does not over heat. However nothing I have read mentions if
> a speaker selector effects impedance.

Did you miss the section on page 4? It is titled....
"Using Speaker Selectors with IM Muting Volume Controls"
http://www.jobsitesystems.com/images/PDF/V12AWE_manual.pdf

> One of my thoughts was that the
> speaker selector takes care of matching the impedance so there is no
> need to also worry about setting it on the volume controls.

In general I would agree to that. If your selector switch assumes an
8 ohm load, and you have 8 ohm speakers, there seems to be no
reason why you should use anything other than the "X1" switch setting.
Note, however the warning: "Combining IM controls with such a
selector will reduce you maximum volume substantially." And even
more so with such a low power amplifier. I would be uncomfortable
using such a low-power amplifier if you expect "party-level" sound
performance out of the deck speakers.

Again, I would NOT recommend this kind of scheme. It is frought
with multiple perils and seems unsuitable for any but low-level back-
ground music.

[GregS[_3_]]

In article >, "Richard Crowley" > wrote:
>"John" wrote...
>> I have a Pioneer home theater receiver rated @ 100w. Its always in
>> use, I pipe my TV audio throught it as well as my dvd player. It's
>> also my main radio. I'm looking to add three pair of out door deck
>> speakers using the monster speaker selector.
>
>The rated power seems pretty low to try to be using it to drive
>so many sets of speakers. Again, unless you are only talking
>about low-level "background music" application.
>
>Not clear why you don't just use a portable radio on the deck?

One reason would be stereo separation, and stereo separation
does sound better. Its also good to keep speakers backed up
and not in the face of people. This gives overall volume without
being too hot to talk or listen. Portable means moving
it around all the time. I don't know what music or whos listening
or how loud. Portable radio might make it hard to
listen to TV or other sources on the cable or satellite.

greg

[John[_46_]]

I saw that section of the manual, I don't know what "IM" stands for.
But the lower section of that paragraph is what caught my eye. The
monster has a defeatable protection circuit, in fact you have to push
in a button to tun it on. Heres a quote from Page 4 of the Jobsite
manual:
"Combining IM controls with such a selector will reduce your maximum
volume substantially. To solve this problem,
specify a speaker selector with a defeatable protection circuit
(JobSite models S-4 or S-6). Then keep the protection circuit off at
all times."

The main reason for not just using a portable radio is as mentioned
before, I run my Dish music stations outside. The other reason is that
Id have to have a couple of portable radios to get the sound to where
it needs to go(separate places around the exterior, not just the
deck).

Another thought was to not even use the speaker selector. Just run the
wires from the receiver to the volume controls then to the pr of
speakers. Use the volume controls to turn the sound on/off. This was
actually suggested by Jobsite tech support. That had actually never
occurred to me and at first I didn't like the thought of it, but now
the more I think of it it may actually provide louder sounding
speakers.
Thanks
John


> Did you miss the section on page 4? It is titled....
> "Using Speaker Selectors with IM Muting Volume Controls"http://www.jobsitesystems.com/images/PDF/V12AWE_manual.pdf
>

> In general I would agree to that. If your selector switch assumes an
> 8 ohm load, and you have 8 ohm speakers, there seems to be no
> reason why you should use anything other than the "X1" switch setting.
> Note, however the warning: "Combining IM controls with such a
> selector will reduce you maximum volume substantially." *And even
> more so with such a low power amplifier. *I would be uncomfortable
> using such a low-power amplifier if you expect "party-level" sound
> performance out of the deck speakers.
>
> Again, I would NOT recommend this kind of scheme. It is frought
> with multiple perils and seems unsuitable for any but low-level back-
> ground music.

[Arny Krueger]

"John" > wrote in message

> I need a little help understanding impedance settings
> from the experts.Im going to be using a Monster Cable 6
> speaker selector box (SS-6) with 4pr of 8ohm speakers.
> Each pr of speakers will have its own volume control and
> not all speakers will be on all the time. My amp is
> 8ohms. From all the information Ive read I should set the
> impedance on the volume controls to 4x, but nothing
> factors in the speaker selector.

> What if only 1pr of speakers is "active", should the
> impedance be set at 1x?

No, the 4x setting will be OK.

If I understand how the SS-6 works, it would be OK to set the speaker
volume controls to 1X.

If you had no SS6, but just ran the lines to the speakers in parallel, then
you'd want to set the remote volume controls to 4X.

[Richard Crowley]

"John" wrote ...
> I saw that section of the manual, I don't know what "IM" stands for.

Since you talked to them, did you ask them?

> The main reason for not just using a portable radio is as mentioned
> before, I run my Dish music stations outside. The other reason is that
> Id have to have a couple of portable radios to get the sound to where
> it needs to go(separate places around the exterior, not just the
> deck).

Repeating: Sounds like a 100w amplifier is inadequate for your
stated requirements.

> Another thought was to not even use the speaker selector. Just run the
> wires from the receiver to the volume controls then to the pr of
> speakers. Use the volume controls to turn the sound on/off. This was
> actually suggested by Jobsite tech support. That had actually never
> occurred to me and at first I didn't like the thought of it, but now
> the more I think of it it may actually provide louder sounding
> speakers.

Driving all the speakers all the time seems like premature death
for your underpowered amplifier. Remember that turning the
volume control down (and even "off") maintains the same load on
the amplifier as if it were turned all the way up.

PS: Please do not "top post". It is rude usenet netequitte for several
reasons.

[John[_46_]]

On Apr 30, 5:25*pm, "Richard Crowley" > wrote:
> "John" *wrote ...
>
> > I saw that section of the manual, I don't know what "IM" stands for.
>
> Since you talked to them, did you ask them?
>
> > The main reason for not just using a portable radio is as mentioned
> > before, I run my Dish music stations outside. The other reason is that
> > Id have to have a couple of portable radios to get the sound to where
> > it needs to go(separate places around the exterior, not just the
> > deck).
>
> Repeating: Sounds like a 100w amplifier is inadequate for your
> stated requirements.
>
> > Another thought was to not even use the speaker selector. Just run the
> > wires from the receiver to the volume controls then to the pr of
> > speakers. Use the volume controls to turn the sound on/off. This was
> > actually suggested by Jobsite tech support. That had actually never
> > occurred to me and at first I didn't like the thought of it, but now
> > the more I think of it it may actually provide louder sounding
> > speakers.
>
> Driving all the speakers all the time seems like premature death
> for your underpowered amplifier. *Remember that turning the
> volume control down (and even "off") maintains the same load on
> the amplifier as if it were turned all the way up.
>
> PS: *Please do not "top post". *It is rude usenet netequitte for several
> reasons.

Never meant to be rude, and I have no Idea what "top post" means.
Sorry if I offended any one. I didn't speak to a person from Jobsite,
I got a reply from tech support. From what I gather some selectors
have built in protection when using multiple speakers that cant be
turned off. With the Monster you have to depress a button to turn it
on. I didn't even think of the continual power aspect.

Just out of curiosity, if the volume control to the speakers is turned
off and it maintains the same load, would it not maintain the same
load even if the selector to a pair of speakers it turned off? What
makes this different?
thanks
John

[Richard Crowley]

"John" wrote ...
> Just out of curiosity, if the volume control to the speakers is turned
> off and it maintains the same load, would it not maintain the same
> load even if the selector to a pair of speakers it turned off? What
> makes this different?

Most of those remotely-located volume controls are of the
"constant-load" variety and are "L-pads" or even "T-pads".
They present a constant load to the amplifier to simplify
system design and performance (at the expense of power)
so that they can be positioned at the point of use, likely far
away from the amplifier.

OTOH, speaker switches are generally co-located with the
amplifier and attempt to "normalize" the load on the amp as
speaker loads are switched on and off. This is often done by
inserting series resistors to keep the load from going too low
for the amplifier to safely drive. This has the negative side-
effect of dissipating the majority of the amplifier power into
uselessly heating the protective series resistors. It also has the
side-effect of dramatically changing the amount of sound that
gets to the speakers depending on how many you have
concurrently connected.

This is why it is quite possible that your amplifier is under-
powered for your desired use, depending on how loud you
anticipate running the speakers.

[John[_46_]]

On Apr 30, 6:47*pm, "Richard Crowley" > wrote:
> "John" wrote ...
>
> > Just out of curiosity, if the volume control to the speakers is turned
> > off and it maintains the same load, *would it not maintain the same
> > load even if the selector to a pair of speakers it turned off? What
> > makes this different?
>
> Most of those remotely-located volume controls are of the
> "constant-load" variety and are "L-pads" or even "T-pads".
> They present a constant load to the amplifier to simplify
> system design and performance (at the expense of power)
> so that they can be positioned at the point of use, likely far
> away from the amplifier.
>
> OTOH, speaker switches are generally co-located with the
> amplifier and attempt to "normalize" the load on the amp as
> speaker loads are switched on and off. This is often done by
> inserting series resistors to keep the load from going too low
> for the amplifier to safely drive. *This has the negative side-
> effect of dissipating the majority of the amplifier power into
> uselessly heating the protective series resistors. It also has the
> side-effect of dramatically changing the amount of sound that
> gets to the speakers depending on how many you have
> concurrently connected.
>
> This is why it is quite possible that your amplifier is under-
> powered for your desired use, depending on how loud you
> anticipate running the speakers.

So I really only have two options, which would be the better choice.
Use the speaker selector with the volume control impedance set at 1x
or just using the volume controls with impedance set at 4x. A new
receiver is not an option at this point.
Thanks
John

[GregS[_3_]]

In article >, John > wrote:
>On Apr 30, 6:47=A0pm, "Richard Crowley" > wrote:
>> "John" wrote ...
>>
>> > Just out of curiosity, if the volume control to the speakers is turned
>> > off and it maintains the same load, =A0would it not maintain the same
>> > load even if the selector to a pair of speakers it turned off? What
>> > makes this different?
>>
>> Most of those remotely-located volume controls are of the
>> "constant-load" variety and are "L-pads" or even "T-pads".
>> They present a constant load to the amplifier to simplify
>> system design and performance (at the expense of power)
>> so that they can be positioned at the point of use, likely far
>> away from the amplifier.
>>
>> OTOH, speaker switches are generally co-located with the
>> amplifier and attempt to "normalize" the load on the amp as
>> speaker loads are switched on and off. This is often done by
>> inserting series resistors to keep the load from going too low
>> for the amplifier to safely drive. =A0This has the negative side-
>> effect of dissipating the majority of the amplifier power into
>> uselessly heating the protective series resistors. It also has the
>> side-effect of dramatically changing the amount of sound that
>> gets to the speakers depending on how many you have
>> concurrently connected.
>>
>> This is why it is quite possible that your amplifier is under-
>> powered for your desired use, depending on how loud you
>> anticipate running the speakers.
>
>So I really only have two options, which would be the better choice.
>Use the speaker selector with the volume control impedance set at 1x
>or just using the volume controls with impedance set at 4x. A new
>receiver is not an option at this point.

Its always an option. You can get used AMPLIFIERS for cheap.

greg

[Arny Krueger]

"GregS" > wrote in message

> In article
> >,
> John > wrote:
>> On Apr 30, 6:47=A0pm, "Richard Crowley"
>> > wrote:
>>> "John" wrote ...
>>>
>>>> Just out of curiosity, if the volume control to the
>>>> speakers is turned off and it maintains the same load,
>>>> =A0would it not maintain the same load even if the
>>>> selector to a pair of speakers it turned off? What
>>>> makes this different?
>>>
>>> Most of those remotely-located volume controls are of
>>> the "constant-load" variety and are "L-pads" or even
>>> "T-pads".
>>> They present a constant load to the amplifier to
>>> simplify
>>> system design and performance (at the expense of power)
>>> so that they can be positioned at the point of use,
>>> likely far away from the amplifier.
>>>
>>> OTOH, speaker switches are generally co-located with the
>>> amplifier and attempt to "normalize" the load on the
>>> amp as speaker loads are switched on and off. This is
>>> often done by inserting series resistors to keep the
>>> load from going too low for the amplifier to safely
>>> drive. =A0This has the negative side- effect of
>>> dissipating the majority of the amplifier power into
>>> uselessly heating the protective series resistors. It
>>> also has the side-effect of dramatically changing the
>>> amount of sound that gets to the speakers depending on
>>> how many you have
>>> concurrently connected.
>>>
>>> This is why it is quite possible that your amplifier is
>>> under- powered for your desired use, depending on how
>>> loud you anticipate running the speakers.
>>
>> So I really only have two options, which would be the
>> better choice. Use the speaker selector with the volume
>> control impedance set at 1x or just using the volume
>> controls with impedance set at 4x. A new receiver is not
>> an option at this point.
>
> Its always an option. You can get used AMPLIFIERS for
> cheap.

Seems like he should investigate a cleaned-up system with just one layer of
passive distribution networks. IOW, just use the volume controls with
impedance set at 4X.

[Dave]

"John" > wrote in message
...
>I need a little help understanding impedance settings from the
> experts.Im going to be using a Monster Cable 6 speaker selector box
> (SS-6) with 4pr of 8ohm speakers. Each pr of speakers will have its
> own volume control and not all speakers will be on all the time. My
> amp is 8ohms. From all the information Ive read I should set the
> impedance on the volume controls to 4x, but nothing factors in the
> speaker selector.
>
> What if only 1pr of speakers is "active", should the impedance be set
> at 1x? Does the speaker selector have anything to do with my impedance
> setting?
> Thanks
> John
>
As others have noted above, the amp you've got is, shall we say, less than
robust when it comes to driving anything but a 4-ohm load. As far as
maximum volume goes, you might be happy enough if you don't plan on driving
all sets of speakers all the time. As you switch in pairs of speakers, a
resistor gets added in-line to keep the impedance seen by your amp at around
8 ohms. So, lotsa heat, not much sound, keeps the amp safe. But, if you
want to rock the house (or deck) you can turn on only one pair and get the
full performance out of your amp for that set of speakers. If you could find
reasonably efficient outdoor speakers (unlikely) then I'd say 100W might do
ya' to run a couple of sets simultaneously, but the 4-1/2" or 5" drivers
you're likely to see in most outdoor mountable speakers are likely to have
an efficiency rating of no higher than 90db/w/m, with most being closer to
86db/w/m. Bottom line: try it and see before running out and buying a
bigger amp, you might find it's plenty loud enough for you.

Dave

[Dave]

"Dave" > wrote in message
news:JSDKl.25212$Db2.14739@edtnps83...
>
> As others have noted above, the amp you've got is, shall we say, less than
> robust when it comes to driving anything but a 4-ohm load.

Oops. I meant 8-ohm load. Typo.

[GregS[_3_]]

In article <xTDKl.25213$Db2.9837@edtnps83>, "Dave" > wrote:
>
>"Dave" > wrote in message
>news:JSDKl.25212$Db2.14739@edtnps83...
>>
>> As others have noted above, the amp you've got is, shall we say, less than
>> robust when it comes to driving anything but a 4-ohm load.
>
>Oops. I meant 8-ohm load. Typo.
>

I don't know if anyone knows what its capabilities are. I have no model #s
or minimum ohms rating. Just a Pioneer home theater amp, which typically
is way overrated for music.

I have a Pioneer home theater amp, which was typically a step
above many others, but also the other way around.

If the outdoors speakers were driven by a separate amp with 70 volt
lines, that would reduce wire size requirments. Stereo is not typically used though.

greg

[John[_46_]]

On May 1, 11:19*am, (GregS) wrote:
> In article <xTDKl.25213$Db2.9837@edtnps83>, "Dave" > wrote:
>
> >"Dave" > wrote in message
> >news:JSDKl.25212$Db2.14739@edtnps83...
>
> >> As others have noted above, the amp you've got is, shall we say, less than
> >> robust when it comes to driving anything but a 4-ohm load.
>
> >Oops. *I meant 8-ohm load. *Typo.
>
> I don't know if anyone knows what its capabilities are. I have no model #s
> or minimum ohms rating. Just a Pioneer home theater amp, which typically
> is way overrated for music.
>
> I have a Pioneer home theater amp, which was typically a step
> above many others, but also the other way around.
>
> If the outdoors speakers were driven by a separate amp with 70 volt
> lines, that would reduce wire size requirments. Stereo is not typically used though.
>
> greg

The receiver is a Pioneer VSX D414. For outside I have three pair of
cheap Insigina 3 way speakers rated at 40w max
(http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?
skuId=7314523&type=product&id=111884368596400) so Im not looking for
slightly higher than background music but not much. Because of their
low w rating I figured my receiver would do just fine, guess I'm
wrong.

I guess I do have a third option (the wife's not happy with as it just
adds another piece of equipment she has to learn to use) I can leave
my current set up alone for inside the home. I have an OLD Fisher
1000w stereo thats been sitting in a box in the basement for years. I
can use that to power the 3 pr of outside speakers. I know it has a
button for speaker "A" and/or "B" so there would be no need for the
Monster selector. I can use the volume controls and set the impedance
at 2x and all should be well.

The down side to this the receivers placement and trying to hook up my
Dish receiver to go through this receiver as well.

Thanks for all the suggestions.
John

[GregS[_3_]]

In article >, John > wrote:
>On May 1, 11:19=A0am, (GregS) wrote:
>> In article <xTDKl.25213$Db2.9837@edtnps83>, "Dave" >=
> wrote:
>>
>> >"Dave" > wrote in message
>> >news:JSDKl.25212$Db2.14739@edtnps83...
>>
>> >> As others have noted above, the amp you've got is, shall we say, less =
>than
>> >> robust when it comes to driving anything but a 4-ohm load.
>>
>> >Oops. =A0I meant 8-ohm load. =A0Typo.
>>
>> I don't know if anyone knows what its capabilities are. I have no model #=
>s
>> or minimum ohms rating. Just a Pioneer home theater amp, which typically
>> is way overrated for music.
>>
>> I have a Pioneer home theater amp, which was typically a step
>> above many others, but also the other way around.
>>
>> If the outdoors speakers were driven by a separate amp with 70 volt
>> lines, that would reduce wire size requirments. Stereo is not typically u=
>sed though.
>>
>> greg
>
>The receiver is a Pioneer VSX D414. For outside I have three pair of
>cheap Insigina 3 way speakers rated at 40w max
>(http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?
>skuId=3D7314523&type=3Dproduct&id=3D111884368596400) so Im not looking for
>slightly higher than background music but not much. Because of their
>low w rating I figured my receiver would do just fine, guess I'm
>wrong.
>
>I guess I do have a third option (the wife's not happy with as it just
>adds another piece of equipment she has to learn to use) I can leave
>my current set up alone for inside the home. I have an OLD Fisher
>1000w stereo thats been sitting in a box in the basement for years. I
>can use that to power the 3 pr of outside speakers. I know it has a
>button for speaker "A" and/or "B" so there would be no need for the
>Monster selector. I can use the volume controls and set the impedance
>at 2x and all should be well.
>
>The down side to this the receivers placement and trying to hook up my
>Dish receiver to go through this receiver as well.
>
>Thanks for all the suggestions.
>John

All kinds of links to pay or register download pdf's on Google search, for get that. Its
at least 3 times the price what I paid for my Pioneer unit. I might check specs later.
Oh I just found the speaker. Got a SN ratio spec, forget that spec sheet.

I would believe 100 watt Fisher.

You can hook up the ouputs of the Pioneer through adaptors, especially
the ground loop isolators type, to feed the second amp from the first amp.
If you really wanted, could also go RF wireless. If the second amp had
IR remote, would be really cool.


greg

[John[_46_]]

On May 1, 2:46*pm, (GregS) wrote:
> In article >, John > wrote:
>
>
>
> >On May 1, 11:19=A0am, (GregS) wrote:
> >> In article <xTDKl.25213$Db2.9837@edtnps83>, "Dave" >=
> > wrote:
>
> >> >"Dave" > wrote in message
> >> >news:JSDKl.25212$Db2.14739@edtnps83...
>
> >> >> As others have noted above, the amp you've got is, shall we say, less =
> >than
> >> >> robust when it comes to driving anything but a 4-ohm load.
>
> >> >Oops. =A0I meant 8-ohm load. =A0Typo.
>
> >> I don't know if anyone knows what its capabilities are. I have no model #=
> >s
> >> or minimum ohms rating. Just a Pioneer home theater amp, which typically
> >> is way overrated for music.
>
> >> I have a Pioneer home theater amp, which was typically a step
> >> above many others, but also the other way around.
>
> >> If the outdoors speakers were driven by a separate amp with 70 volt
> >> lines, that would reduce wire size requirments. Stereo is not typically u=
> >sed though.
>
> >> greg
>
> >The receiver is a Pioneer VSX D414. For outside I *have three pair of
> >cheap Insigina 3 way speakers rated at 40w max
> >(http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?
> >skuId=3D7314523&type=3Dproduct&id=3D111884368596400) so Im not looking for
> >slightly higher than background music but not much. Because of their
> >low w rating I figured my receiver would do just fine, guess I'm
> >wrong.
>
> >I guess I do have a third option (the wife's not happy with as it just
> >adds another piece of equipment she has to learn to use) I can leave
> >my current set up alone for inside the home. I have an OLD Fisher
> >1000w stereo thats been sitting in a box in the basement for years. I
> >can use that to power the 3 pr of outside speakers. I know it has a
> >button for speaker "A" and/or "B" so there would be no need for the
> >Monster selector. I can use the volume controls and set the impedance
> >at 2x and all should be well.
>
> >The down side to this the receivers placement and trying to hook up my
> >Dish receiver to go through this receiver as well.
>
> >Thanks for all the suggestions.
> >John
>
> All kinds of links to pay or register download pdf's on Google search, for get that. Its
> at least 3 times the price what I paid for my Pioneer unit. I might check specs later.
> Oh I just found the speaker. Got a SN ratio spec, forget that spec sheet.
>
> I would believe 100 watt Fisher.
>
> You can hook up the ouputs of the Pioneer through adaptors, especially
> the ground loop isolators type, to feed the second amp from the first amp..
> If you really wanted, could also go RF wireless. If the second amp had
> IR remote, would be really cool.
>
> greg

Greg,

You are correct I think it is a 100w amp, I made a typo. It does have
a remote control but the distance is pretty limited.Its at least 20yrs
old. Its a plain old stereo, nothing fancy, Fisher model # 9115 and Im
having trouble finding a manual on line, even the pay sites don't have
one. I have a call in to fisher to see about buying one. Most of the
stuff you guys have been talking about is way over my head. Can you
explain what you mean by this: "You can hook up the ouputs of the
Pioneer through adaptors" and the part about going RF wireless.

If you meant RF wireless for the speakers I looked into that. Most of
them need a power source near the speaker placement. I dont have
outlets near where the speakers are.

Thanks
John

[GregS[_3_]]

In article >, John > wrote:
>On May 1, 2:46=A0pm, (GregS) wrote:
>> In article =
>om>, John > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >On May 1, 11:19=3DA0am, (GregS) wrote:
>> >> In article <xTDKl.25213$Db2.9837@edtnps83>, "Dave" =
>om>=3D
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >> >"Dave" > wrote in message
>> >> >news:JSDKl.25212$Db2.14739@edtnps83...
>>
>> >> >> As others have noted above, the amp you've got is, shall we say, le=
>ss =3D
>> >than
>> >> >> robust when it comes to driving anything but a 4-ohm load.
>>
>> >> >Oops. =3DA0I meant 8-ohm load. =3DA0Typo.
>>
>> >> I don't know if anyone knows what its capabilities are. I have no mode=
>l #=3D
>> >s
>> >> or minimum ohms rating. Just a Pioneer home theater amp, which typical=
>ly
>> >> is way overrated for music.
>>
>> >> I have a Pioneer home theater amp, which was typically a step
>> >> above many others, but also the other way around.
>>
>> >> If the outdoors speakers were driven by a separate amp with 70 volt
>> >> lines, that would reduce wire size requirments. Stereo is not typicall=
>y u=3D
>> >sed though.
>>
>> >> greg
>>
>> >The receiver is a Pioneer VSX D414. For outside I =A0have three pair of
>> >cheap Insigina 3 way speakers rated at 40w max
>> >(http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?
>> >skuId=3D3D7314523&type=3D3Dproduct&id=3D3D111884368596400) so Im not loo=
>king for
>> >slightly higher than background music but not much. Because of their
>> >low w rating I figured my receiver would do just fine, guess I'm
>> >wrong.
>>
>> >I guess I do have a third option (the wife's not happy with as it just
>> >adds another piece of equipment she has to learn to use) I can leave
>> >my current set up alone for inside the home. I have an OLD Fisher
>> >1000w stereo thats been sitting in a box in the basement for years. I
>> >can use that to power the 3 pr of outside speakers. I know it has a
>> >button for speaker "A" and/or "B" so there would be no need for the
>> >Monster selector. I can use the volume controls and set the impedance
>> >at 2x and all should be well.
>>
>> >The down side to this the receivers placement and trying to hook up my
>> >Dish receiver to go through this receiver as well.
>>
>> >Thanks for all the suggestions.
>> >John
>>
>> All kinds of links to pay or register download pdf's on Google search, fo=
>r get that. Its
>> at least 3 times the price what I paid for my Pioneer unit. I might check=
> specs later.
>> Oh I just found the speaker. Got a SN ratio spec, forget that spec sheet.
>>
>> I would believe 100 watt Fisher.
>>
>> You can hook up the ouputs of the Pioneer through adaptors, especially
>> the ground loop isolators type, to feed the second amp from the first amp=
>..
>> If you really wanted, could also go RF wireless. If the second amp had
>> IR remote, would be really cool.
>>
>> greg
>
>Greg,
>
> You are correct I think it is a 100w amp, I made a typo. It does have
>a remote control but the distance is pretty limited.Its at least 20yrs
>old. Its a plain old stereo, nothing fancy, Fisher model # 9115 and Im
>having trouble finding a manual on line, even the pay sites don't have
>one. I have a call in to fisher to see about buying one. Most of the
>stuff you guys have been talking about is way over my head. Can you
>explain what you mean by this: "You can hook up the ouputs of the
>Pioneer through adaptors" and the part about going RF wireless.
>

You can buy car audio adaptors for speaker level to line level. Some allready have
ground loop isolators. This makes a balanced line which provents hum and noise
from getting into line level rca cables. You can directly attach a ground loop isolator to a speaker
output. A little padding may be necessary to reduce level.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-hDBk3OqZQb3/p_543ADP12/Russound-ADP-1-2-Speaker-level-to-Line-level-Adapter.html

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_127SNI1/PAC-SNI-1.html?search=ground+loop+isolator

Hope those links work. Radio Shack also sells adaptors as well as your local car audio shops, probably Best Buy.


>If you meant RF wireless for the speakers I looked into that. Most of
>them need a power source near the speaker placement. I dont have
>outlets near where the speakers are.

No I mean RF wireless between amps. That eliminates the connection from the first
amp to the second, assuming the second will be in another location. Could even
be outside.

>Thanks
>John

[GregS[_3_]]

In article >, (GregS) wrote:
>In article >,
> John > wrote:
>>On May 1, 2:46=A0pm, (GregS) wrote:
>>> In article =
>>om>, John > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >On May 1, 11:19=3DA0am, (GregS) wrote:
>>> >> In article <xTDKl.25213$Db2.9837@edtnps83>, "Dave" =
>>om>=3D
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> >> >"Dave" > wrote in message
>>> >> >news:JSDKl.25212$Db2.14739@edtnps83...
>>>
>>> >> >> As others have noted above, the amp you've got is, shall we say, le=
>>ss =3D
>>> >than
>>> >> >> robust when it comes to driving anything but a 4-ohm load.
>>>
>>> >> >Oops. =3DA0I meant 8-ohm load. =3DA0Typo.
>>>
>>> >> I don't know if anyone knows what its capabilities are. I have no mode=
>>l #=3D
>>> >s
>>> >> or minimum ohms rating. Just a Pioneer home theater amp, which typical=
>>ly
>>> >> is way overrated for music.
>>>
>>> >> I have a Pioneer home theater amp, which was typically a step
>>> >> above many others, but also the other way around.
>>>
>>> >> If the outdoors speakers were driven by a separate amp with 70 volt
>>> >> lines, that would reduce wire size requirments. Stereo is not typicall=
>>y u=3D
>>> >sed though.
>>>
>>> >> greg
>>>
>>> >The receiver is a Pioneer VSX D414. For outside I =A0have three pair of
>>> >cheap Insigina 3 way speakers rated at 40w max
>>> >(http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?
>>> >skuId=3D3D7314523&type=3D3Dproduct&id=3D3D111884368596400) so Im not loo=
>>king for
>>> >slightly higher than background music but not much. Because of their
>>> >low w rating I figured my receiver would do just fine, guess I'm
>>> >wrong.
>>>
>>> >I guess I do have a third option (the wife's not happy with as it just
>>> >adds another piece of equipment she has to learn to use) I can leave
>>> >my current set up alone for inside the home. I have an OLD Fisher
>>> >1000w stereo thats been sitting in a box in the basement for years. I
>>> >can use that to power the 3 pr of outside speakers. I know it has a
>>> >button for speaker "A" and/or "B" so there would be no need for the
>>> >Monster selector. I can use the volume controls and set the impedance
>>> >at 2x and all should be well.
>>>
>>> >The down side to this the receivers placement and trying to hook up my
>>> >Dish receiver to go through this receiver as well.
>>>
>>> >Thanks for all the suggestions.
>>> >John
>>>
>>> All kinds of links to pay or register download pdf's on Google search, fo=
>>r get that. Its
>>> at least 3 times the price what I paid for my Pioneer unit. I might check=
>> specs later.
>>> Oh I just found the speaker. Got a SN ratio spec, forget that spec sheet.
>>>
>>> I would believe 100 watt Fisher.
>>>
>>> You can hook up the ouputs of the Pioneer through adaptors, especially
>>> the ground loop isolators type, to feed the second amp from the first amp=
>>..
>>> If you really wanted, could also go RF wireless. If the second amp had
>>> IR remote, would be really cool.
>>>
>>> greg
>>
>>Greg,
>>
>> You are correct I think it is a 100w amp, I made a typo. It does have
>>a remote control but the distance is pretty limited.Its at least 20yrs
>>old. Its a plain old stereo, nothing fancy, Fisher model # 9115 and Im
>>having trouble finding a manual on line, even the pay sites don't have
>>one. I have a call in to fisher to see about buying one. Most of the
>>stuff you guys have been talking about is way over my head. Can you
>>explain what you mean by this: "You can hook up the ouputs of the
>>Pioneer through adaptors" and the part about going RF wireless.
>>
>
>You can buy car audio adaptors for speaker level to line level. Some allready
> have
>ground loop isolators. This makes a balanced line which provents hum and noise
>from getting into line level rca cables. You can directly attach a ground loop
> isolator to a speaker
>output. A little padding may be necessary to reduce level.
>http://www.crutchfield.com/S-hDBk3OqZQb3/p_543ADP12/Russound-ADP-1-2-Speaker-le
>vel-to-Line-level-Adapter.html

Thats expensive. You can zoom in and make it yourself allmost. The values are shown,.
With an RCA cable, you can cut it and add resistors and thats all.

For example one series resistor on the driver side of 1000 ohms 1/2 watt, and
an additional parallel 500 ohm resistor on the output side.
I don't think that will get too hot, don't have time to compute.


greg


>http://www.crutchfield.com/p_127SNI1/PAC-SNI-1.html?search=ground+loop+isolator
>
>Hope those links work. Radio Shack also sells adaptors as well as your local
> car audio shops, probably Best Buy.
>
>
>>If you meant RF wireless for the speakers I looked into that. Most of
>>them need a power source near the speaker placement. I dont have
>>outlets near where the speakers are.
>
>No I mean RF wireless between amps. That eliminates the connection from the
> first
>amp to the second, assuming the second will be in another location. Could even
>be outside.
>
>>Thanks
>>John