should i leave my amp on at all times

[rhino]

Hey guys

Fresh fish here, first post. I know nowt about audio stuff, but do appreciate nice equipment. I unpacked my seperates yesterday and put them in the stand; got such a sense of satisfaction and it feels great to have my music again. Sad I am sure but tuning in my tuner felt great, such a lovely smooth and perfectly weighted action.

Enough dribble...I've got a Pioneer A-717 amp and was told yesterday by a mate who came over to look at my setup that I should leave the amp turned on all the time. Is this right; he reckons he knows his stuff but as I certainly do not I cannot be sure.

What do you lot reckon?

Thanks in advance for any help

Karl

[Mark Zacharias]

"rhino" > wrote in message
...
>
> Hey guys
>
> Fresh fish here, first post. I know nowt about audio stuff, but do
> appreciate nice equipment. I unpacked my seperates yesterday and put
> them in the stand; got such a sense of satisfaction and it feels great
> to have my music again. Sad I am sure but tuning in my tuner felt
> great, such a lovely smooth and perfectly weighted action.
>
> Enough dribble...I've got a Pioneer A-717 amp and was told yesterday by
> a mate who came over to look at my setup that I should leave the amp
> turned on all the time. Is this right; he reckons he knows his stuff
> but as I certainly do not I cannot be sure.
>
> What do you lot reckon?
>
> Thanks in advance for any help
>
> Karl
>
>
>
>
> --
> rhino


I vote against this, particularly if the amp generates much heat. At the
least the electrolytic capacitors, especially the smaller ones, will dry out
much sooner.

Those who claim audible benefits have never proven this in double blind
testing.

In my opinion - a bad idea.

Mark Z.

[rhino]

"rhino" > wrote in message
...
>
> Hey guys
>
> Fresh fish here, first post. I know nowt about audio stuff, but do
> appreciate nice equipment. I unpacked my seperates yesterday and put
> them in the stand; got such a sense of satisfaction and it feels great
> to have my music again. Sad I am sure but tuning in my tuner felt
> great, such a lovely smooth and perfectly weighted action.
>
> Enough dribble...I've got a Pioneer A-717 amp and was told yesterday by
> a mate who came over to look at my setup that I should leave the amp
> turned on all the time. Is this right; he reckons he knows his stuff
> but as I certainly do not I cannot be sure.
>
> What do you lot reckon?
>
> Thanks in advance for any help
>
> Karl
>
>
>
>
> --
> rhino


I vote against this, particularly if the amp generates much heat. At the
least the electrolytic capacitors, especially the smaller ones, will dry out
much sooner.

Those who claim audible benefits have never proven this in double blind
testing.

In my opinion - a bad idea.

Mark Z.


Thanks Mark. So it is a practice undertaken by some people, and not by others. If it is a case of 50 50, i'll just turn it off when not using it as I am more comfortable with that personally. Regards karl

[jc]

On Mar 29, 2:02*pm, rhino > wrote:
> Hey guys
>
> Fresh fish here, first post. I know nowt about audio stuff, but do
> appreciate nice equipment. I unpacked my seperates yesterday and put
> them in the stand; got such a sense of satisfaction and it feels great
> to have my music again. Sad I am sure but tuning in my tuner felt
> great, such a lovely smooth and perfectly weighted action.
>
> Enough dribble...I've got a Pioneer A-717 amp and was told yesterday by
> a mate who came over to look at my setup that I should leave the amp
> turned on all the time. Is this right; he reckons he knows his stuff
> but as I certainly do not I cannot be sure.
>
> What do you lot reckon?
>
> Thanks in advance for any help
>
> Karl
>
> --
> rhino

This is one of those bizarre audiophile myths. Turn off your
amp when you're not using it. It will save power, and you
won't look stupid.

-jc

[Nina]

On Mar 29, 1:02*pm, rhino > wrote:
> Hey guys
>
> Fresh fish here, first post. I know nowt about audio stuff, but do
> appreciate nice equipment. I unpacked my seperates yesterday and put
> them in the stand; got such a sense of satisfaction and it feels great
> to have my music again. Sad I am sure but tuning in my tuner felt
> great, such a lovely smooth and perfectly weighted action.
>
> Enough dribble...I've got a Pioneer A-717 amp and was told yesterday by
> a mate who came over to look at my setup that I should leave the amp
> turned on all the time. Is this right; he reckons he knows his stuff
> but as I certainly do not I cannot be sure.
>
> What do you lot reckon?
>
> Thanks in advance for any help
>
> Karl
>
> --
> rhino

Hi Karl! Ya Know, this issue is a perrinial audiophile question that
has answers on both sides--and I have been on both sides. Now-as far
as tube equipment, absolutely do not leave on 24-7 unless you have an
innexaustble suply of replacement tubes and very good cooling
apperatum, e.g. fans. Now, the question of transistor amps: As
someone pointed out above, leaving on can contribute to the drying out
of certain silicones--but--leaving off for LONG PERIODS--can certainly
contribute to drying out also--and to 'cooling' of solders. In short--
transistor components can 'die' if left unused. Finally there is the
issue of the turning on transit--which due to servo-muting devices one
usually does not hear as a "pop" on modern day equipment, but
nevertheless places a huge burden on the chassis. The turning on of a
transistor component is the most potentially damaging phaze of
operation (excluding thermal runnaway). So...what do I do? I act in
between the extremes in a reasonable compromise. I turn my equipment
off every night---but I only turn it on once a day (unless I step
out). My electronics stay on then all day to allow maximum stable
operation with a good overnight rest for good behaviour:). My Fishers
from the early sixties are getting pretty old but they perform
seamlesly with having had the usual maintenance and re-aligniments
over the years. They love demanding digital signal and they remain
perfectly functional! I do also recomend that cooling fans be
used...and good safe ones that will not themselves overheat. It goes
without saying that if your equipment is encased in cabinet space with
doors that the doors MUST BE LEFT OPEN when the equipment is on, and I
should say for a good while after turning off. I hope these ramblings
prove edifying to a fellow travellor and enjoy enjoy enjoy your
marvelous equipment!
Robin!!!YikesandawayHeard!!!!!

[Mike O'Sullivan]

Nina wrote:
>
> Hi Karl! Ya Know, this issue is a perrinial audiophile question that
> has answers on both sides--and I have been on both sides. Now-as far
> as tube equipment, absolutely do not leave on 24-7 unless you have an
> innexaustble suply of replacement tubes and very good cooling
> apperatum, e.g. fans.

I thought tubes (valves) lasted indefinitely if you don't switch off?
The frequent powering up and down is what causes them to fail.

[jc]

On Mar 31, 11:35*am, Nina > wrote:
> On Mar 29, 1:02*pm, rhino > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hey guys
>
> > Fresh fish here, first post. I know nowt about audio stuff, but do
> > appreciate nice equipment. I unpacked my seperates yesterday and put
> > them in the stand; got such a sense of satisfaction and it feels great
> > to have my music again. Sad I am sure but tuning in my tuner felt
> > great, such a lovely smooth and perfectly weighted action.
>
> > Enough dribble...I've got a Pioneer A-717 amp and was told yesterday by
> > a mate who came over to look at my setup that I should leave the amp
> > turned on all the time. Is this right; he reckons he knows his stuff
> > but as I certainly do not I cannot be sure.
>
> > What do you lot reckon?
>
> > Thanks in advance for any help
>
> > Karl
>
> > --
> > rhino
>
> Hi Karl! *Ya Know, this issue is a perrinial audiophile question that
> has answers on both sides--and I have been on both sides. *Now-as far
> as tube equipment, absolutely do not leave on 24-7 unless you have an
> innexaustble suply of replacement tubes and very good cooling
> apperatum, e.g. fans. *Now, the question of transistor amps: *As
> someone pointed out above, leaving on can contribute to the drying out
> of certain silicones--but--leaving off for LONG PERIODS--can certainly
> contribute to drying out also--and to 'cooling' of solders. *In short--
> transistor components can 'die' if left unused. *

This is pure nonsense. Solders do not "cool". A "cold solder
joint" is a solder joint that was never soldered properly in the
first place. A proper solder joint will significantly outlast
the owner of the equipment - whether it is turned on
or not.

Also, transistors do not "die" if left off. This is a myth
that likely started because things left off for long periods
are typically neglected in other ways. Turning off
solid state equipment will not shorten its life, but
kicking it into a corner might.

-jc


> Finally there is the
> issue of the turning on transit--which due to servo-muting devices one
> usually does not hear as a "pop" on modern day equipment, but
> nevertheless places a huge burden on the chassis. *The turning on of a
> transistor component is the most potentially damaging phaze of
> operation (excluding thermal runnaway). *So...what do I do? * I act in
> between the extremes in a reasonable compromise. *I turn my equipment
> off every night---but I only turn it on once a day (unless I step
> out). *My electronics stay on then all day to allow maximum stable
> operation with a good overnight rest for good behaviour:). *My Fishers
> from the early sixties are getting pretty old but they perform
> seamlesly with having had the usual maintenance and re-aligniments
> over the years. *They love demanding digital signal and they remain
> perfectly functional! *I do also recomend that cooling fans be
> used...and good safe ones that will not themselves overheat. *It goes
> without saying that if your equipment is encased in cabinet space with
> doors that the doors MUST BE LEFT OPEN when the equipment is on, and I
> should say for a good while after turning off. *I hope these ramblings
> prove edifying to a fellow travellor and enjoy enjoy enjoy your
> marvelous equipment!
> Robin!!!YikesandawayHeard!!!!!

[Mark Zacharias]

"jc" > wrote in message
...
On Mar 31, 11:35 am, Nina > wrote:
> On Mar 29, 1:02 pm, rhino > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hey guys
>
> > Fresh fish here, first post. I know nowt about audio stuff, but do
> > appreciate nice equipment. I unpacked my seperates yesterday and put
> > them in the stand; got such a sense of satisfaction and it feels great
> > to have my music again. Sad I am sure but tuning in my tuner felt
> > great, such a lovely smooth and perfectly weighted action.
>
> > Enough dribble...I've got a Pioneer A-717 amp and was told yesterday by
> > a mate who came over to look at my setup that I should leave the amp
> > turned on all the time. Is this right; he reckons he knows his stuff
> > but as I certainly do not I cannot be sure.
>
> > What do you lot reckon?
>
> > Thanks in advance for any help
>
> > Karl
>
> > --
> > rhino
>
> Hi Karl! Ya Know, this issue is a perrinial audiophile question that
> has answers on both sides--and I have been on both sides. Now-as far
> as tube equipment, absolutely do not leave on 24-7 unless you have an
> innexaustble suply of replacement tubes and very good cooling
> apperatum, e.g. fans. Now, the question of transistor amps: As
> someone pointed out above, leaving on can contribute to the drying out
> of certain silicones--but--leaving off for LONG PERIODS--can certainly
> contribute to drying out also--and to 'cooling' of solders. In short--
> transistor components can 'die' if left unused.

This is pure nonsense. Solders do not "cool". A "cold solder
joint" is a solder joint that was never soldered properly in the
first place. A proper solder joint will significantly outlast
the owner of the equipment - whether it is turned on
or not.

Also, transistors do not "die" if left off. This is a myth
that likely started because things left off for long periods
are typically neglected in other ways. Turning off
solid state equipment will not shorten its life, but
kicking it into a corner might.

-jc


> Finally there is the
> issue of the turning on transit--which due to servo-muting devices one
> usually does not hear as a "pop" on modern day equipment, but
> nevertheless places a huge burden on the chassis. The turning on of a
> transistor component is the most potentially damaging phaze of
> operation (excluding thermal runnaway). So...what do I do? I act in
> between the extremes in a reasonable compromise. I turn my equipment
> off every night---but I only turn it on once a day (unless I step
> out). My electronics stay on then all day to allow maximum stable
> operation with a good overnight rest for good behaviour:). My Fishers
> from the early sixties are getting pretty old but they perform
> seamlesly with having had the usual maintenance and re-aligniments
> over the years. They love demanding digital signal and they remain
> perfectly functional! I do also recomend that cooling fans be
> used...and good safe ones that will not themselves overheat. It goes
> without saying that if your equipment is encased in cabinet space with
> doors that the doors MUST BE LEFT OPEN when the equipment is on, and I
> should say for a good while after turning off. I hope these ramblings
> prove edifying to a fellow travellor and enjoy enjoy enjoy your
> marvelous equipment!
> Robin!!!YikesandawayHeard!!!!!



Solder connections definitely do suffer from thermal expansion / contraction
issues related to heating and cooling in normal operation. I deal with this
every day as a repair tech. It can and does happen at the solder joints of
any component which generates sufficient heat, such as transistors, voltage
regulators, power resistors, etc.

I still vote for turning off the equipment when not in use, unless one is
planning on using it again in a short while. For example, I don't recommend
turning off your TV, running to the store for 20 minutes, then coming back
home and turning it on again. In this scenario, just leave it on for a
while.

Mark Z.

[jc]

On Apr 1, 5:22*am, "Mark Zacharias" >
wrote:
> "jc" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Mar 31, 11:35 am, Nina > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mar 29, 1:02 pm, rhino > wrote:
>
> > > Hey guys
>
> > > Fresh fish here, first post. I know nowt about audio stuff, but do
> > > appreciate nice equipment. I unpacked my seperates yesterday and put
> > > them in the stand; got such a sense of satisfaction and it feels great
> > > to have my music again. Sad I am sure but tuning in my tuner felt
> > > great, such a lovely smooth and perfectly weighted action.
>
> > > Enough dribble...I've got a Pioneer A-717 amp and was told yesterday by
> > > a mate who came over to look at my setup that I should leave the amp
> > > turned on all the time. Is this right; he reckons he knows his stuff
> > > but as I certainly do not I cannot be sure.
>
> > > What do you lot reckon?
>
> > > Thanks in advance for any help
>
> > > Karl
>
> > > --
> > > rhino
>
> > Hi Karl! Ya Know, this issue is a perrinial audiophile question that
> > has answers on both sides--and I have been on both sides. Now-as far
> > as tube equipment, absolutely do not leave on 24-7 unless you have an
> > innexaustble suply of replacement tubes and very good cooling
> > apperatum, e.g. fans. Now, the question of transistor amps: As
> > someone pointed out above, leaving on can contribute to the drying out
> > of certain silicones--but--leaving off for LONG PERIODS--can certainly
> > contribute to drying out also--and to 'cooling' of solders. In short--
> > transistor components can 'die' if left unused.
>
> This is pure nonsense. *Solders do not "cool". *A "cold solder
> joint" is a solder joint that was never soldered properly in the
> first place. *A proper solder joint will significantly outlast
> the owner of the equipment - whether it is turned on
> or not.
>
> Also, transistors do not "die" if left off. *This is a myth
> that likely started because things left off for long periods
> are typically neglected in other ways. *Turning off
> solid state equipment will not shorten its life, but
> kicking it into a corner might.
>
> -jc
>
>
>
> > Finally there is the
> > issue of the turning on transit--which due to servo-muting devices one
> > usually does not hear as a "pop" on modern day equipment, but
> > nevertheless places a huge burden on the chassis. The turning on of a
> > transistor component is the most potentially damaging phaze of
> > operation (excluding thermal runnaway). So...what do I do? I act in
> > between the extremes in a reasonable compromise. I turn my equipment
> > off every night---but I only turn it on once a day (unless I step
> > out). My electronics stay on then all day to allow maximum stable
> > operation with a good overnight rest for good behaviour:). My Fishers
> > from the early sixties are getting pretty old but they perform
> > seamlesly with having had the usual maintenance and re-aligniments
> > over the years. They love demanding digital signal and they remain
> > perfectly functional! I do also recomend that cooling fans be
> > used...and good safe ones that will not themselves overheat. It goes
> > without saying that if your equipment is encased in cabinet space with
> > doors that the doors MUST BE LEFT OPEN when the equipment is on, and I
> > should say for a good while after turning off. I hope these ramblings
> > prove edifying to a fellow travellor and enjoy enjoy enjoy your
> > marvelous equipment!
> > Robin!!!YikesandawayHeard!!!!!
>
> Solder connections definitely do suffer from thermal expansion / contraction
> issues related to heating and cooling in normal operation. I deal with this
> every day as a repair tech. It can and does happen at the solder joints of
> any component which generates sufficient heat, such as transistors, voltage
> regulators, power resistors, etc.
>

Yes, but that's thermal cycling. It has nothing to do with the amount
of time it's left off. The statement was that solder and components
"die" from being left off for long periods of time. Also, it only
happens to joints that had some hidden flaw to begin with, and
it's much less common now that there's more quality control in
manufacturing.

I have an old guitar amp from the 60's. A few years ago, it developed
a bad solder joint which was a real bitch to find, but when I did
find it, you could see it had never been properly soldered 40+ years
ago. I'm sure the modern knock off of the same amp (made in
China) can be power cycled 1000 times with no problem.



> I still vote for turning off the equipment when not in use, unless one is
> planning on using it again in a short while. For example, I don't recommend
> turning off your TV, running to the store for 20 minutes, then coming back
> home and turning it on again. In this scenario, just leave it on for a
> while.
>

Agreed.

-jc


> Mark Z.

[rhino]

On Apr 1, 5:22*am, "Mark Zacharias" >
wrote:
> "jc" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Mar 31, 11:35 am, Nina > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mar 29, 1:02 pm, rhino > wrote:
>
> > > Hey guys
>
> > > Fresh fish here, first post. I know nowt about audio stuff, but do
> > > appreciate nice equipment. I unpacked my seperates yesterday and put
> > > them in the stand; got such a sense of satisfaction and it feels great
> > > to have my music again. Sad I am sure but tuning in my tuner felt
> > > great, such a lovely smooth and perfectly weighted action.
>
> > > Enough dribble...I've got a Pioneer A-717 amp and was told yesterday by
> > > a mate who came over to look at my setup that I should leave the amp
> > > turned on all the time. Is this right; he reckons he knows his stuff
> > > but as I certainly do not I cannot be sure.
>
> > > What do you lot reckon?
>
> > > Thanks in advance for any help
>
> > > Karl
>
> > > --
> > > rhino
>
> > Hi Karl! Ya Know, this issue is a perrinial audiophile question that
> > has answers on both sides--and I have been on both sides. Now-as far
> > as tube equipment, absolutely do not leave on 24-7 unless you have an
> > innexaustble suply of replacement tubes and very good cooling
> > apperatum, e.g. fans. Now, the question of transistor amps: As
> > someone pointed out above, leaving on can contribute to the drying out
> > of certain silicones--but--leaving off for LONG PERIODS--can certainly
> > contribute to drying out also--and to 'cooling' of solders. In short--
> > transistor components can 'die' if left unused.
>
> This is pure nonsense. *Solders do not "cool". *A "cold solder
> joint" is a solder joint that was never soldered properly in the
> first place. *A proper solder joint will significantly outlast
> the owner of the equipment - whether it is turned on
> or not.
>
> Also, transistors do not "die" if left off. *This is a myth
> that likely started because things left off for long periods
> are typically neglected in other ways. *Turning off
> solid state equipment will not shorten its life, but
> kicking it into a corner might.
>
> -jc
>
>
>
> > Finally there is the
> > issue of the turning on transit--which due to servo-muting devices one
> > usually does not hear as a "pop" on modern day equipment, but
> > nevertheless places a huge burden on the chassis. The turning on of a
> > transistor component is the most potentially damaging phaze of
> > operation (excluding thermal runnaway). So...what do I do? I act in
> > between the extremes in a reasonable compromise. I turn my equipment
> > off every night---but I only turn it on once a day (unless I step
> > out). My electronics stay on then all day to allow maximum stable
> > operation with a good overnight rest for good behaviour:). My Fishers
> > from the early sixties are getting pretty old but they perform
> > seamlesly with having had the usual maintenance and re-aligniments
> > over the years. They love demanding digital signal and they remain
> > perfectly functional! I do also recomend that cooling fans be
> > used...and good safe ones that will not themselves overheat. It goes
> > without saying that if your equipment is encased in cabinet space with
> > doors that the doors MUST BE LEFT OPEN when the equipment is on, and I
> > should say for a good while after turning off. I hope these ramblings
> > prove edifying to a fellow travellor and enjoy enjoy enjoy your
> > marvelous equipment!
> > Robin!!!YikesandawayHeard!!!!!
>
> Solder connections definitely do suffer from thermal expansion / contraction
> issues related to heating and cooling in normal operation. I deal with this
> every day as a repair tech. It can and does happen at the solder joints of
> any component which generates sufficient heat, such as transistors, voltage
> regulators, power resistors, etc.
>

Yes, but that's thermal cycling. It has nothing to do with the amount
of time it's left off. The statement was that solder and components
"die" from being left off for long periods of time. Also, it only
happens to joints that had some hidden flaw to begin with, and
it's much less common now that there's more quality control in
manufacturing.

I have an old guitar amp from the 60's. A few years ago, it developed
a bad solder joint which was a real bitch to find, but when I did
find it, you could see it had never been properly soldered 40+ years
ago. I'm sure the modern knock off of the same amp (made in
China) can be power cycled 1000 times with no problem.



> I still vote for turning off the equipment when not in use, unless one is
> planning on using it again in a short while. For example, I don't recommend
> turning off your TV, running to the store for 20 minutes, then coming back
> home and turning it on again. In this scenario, just leave it on for a
> while.
>

Agreed.

-jc


> Mark Z.

Thanks for the confirmation peoples...I can see that this is a can of worms. Thanks for taking the time to reply; I'm an absolute novice amongst you techy lot.

I tend to fall asleep with the stereo on, and then not be about during the day so my amp is normally on all night and off all day. Reckon I'll just stick with that for now.

My amp is on the top level of what I consider a 'proper' stereo stand; there are no sides or doors so hopefully cooling is adequate.

If I were to take the cover off the amp and post pictures on the site (if that is possible) is there any chance of you guys telling me what each component is...all this talk of transistors and electrolytic capacitors has left me wondering what they look like and if my amp has them. I now know what they are (having searched the net) but couldn't tell you what they look like!

Is there a better part of the forum for such a query, or a different forum, or is right here just perfect?

Thanks again folks

Karl