A new height of irony [Archive]

Iain Churches[_2_]

March 17th 09, 06:26 AM

"TT" > wrote in message
. au...
>
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in
>>> message
>>> ...
>>> On Mar 16, 7:55 pm, "TT" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Quote AK " people like me must appear to be about 8 feet
>>>> tall."
>>>
>>>>Part of GOIA's insanity is inflated self worth. Since it judges its
>>> value as a 'human' in "troll points" things like that can happen.
>>>
>>> Hmm. Eight feet tall. Shouldn't that be " eight dozen inches " n
>>> Kroolglish?
>>>
>>
>> Apologies for typo.Correction:
>>
>> Shouldn't that have been......
> Don't be concerned Iain, a pile of excrement is still just that,
> regardless of the measuring technique ;-)
>

Morning TT.

My eyes were not fully open. It was just past 0700hrs
local time, when I wrote that post. I was still waiting
for the coffee percolator! I had a very late night
last night, talking music until the early hours with an
old colleague I have not seen for a very long time .

Iain

March 17th 09, 07:14 AM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
...
>
> "TT" > wrote in message
> . au...
>>
>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
>>>> > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>> On Mar 16, 7:55 pm, "TT" >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Quote AK " people like me must appear to be about 8
>>>>> feet
>>>>> tall."
>>>>
>>>>>Part of GOIA's insanity is inflated self worth. Since
>>>>>it judges its
>>>> value as a 'human' in "troll points" things like that
>>>> can happen.
>>>>
>>>> Hmm. Eight feet tall. Shouldn't that be " eight dozen
>>>> inches " n Kroolglish?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Apologies for typo.Correction:
>>>
>>> Shouldn't that have been......
>> Don't be concerned Iain, a pile of excrement is still
>> just that, regardless of the measuring technique ;-)
>>
>
> Morning TT.
>
> My eyes were not fully open. It was just past 0700hrs
> local time, when I wrote that post. I was still waiting
> for the coffee percolator! I had a very late night
> last night, talking music until the early hours with an
> old colleague I have not seen for a very long time .
>
> Iain
Ah yes, an excellent way to spend an evening, especially if
some fine reds and few ports are consumed. Then the
reminiscing becomes embellishing ;-)

Cheers TT

Mark Harriss

March 17th 09, 08:02 AM

TT wrote:
> especially if
> some fine reds and few ports are consumed. Then the
> reminiscing becomes embellishing ;-)
>
> Cheers TT
>
>

Heh, why else is it called "A Rosy Glow"?

Brian Gaff

March 17th 09, 09:00 AM

Never mind folks as Msoft will not be shipping a news reader with Windows 7,
nobody will know Usenet exists anyway after that.
Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
>
> The Krooborg just demanded that it be made Ethics Commissioner for
> Usenet's
> audio groups. (I'm not going to reproduce the post here. You'll have to
> dig
> through the past 24 hours of Kroo-droppings on RAO.)
>
>
>
> --
>
> Words don't have just one meaning.
> Combinations of words don't have just one meaning.
> A. Krooger, 9 December 2008
>
> Since everything I write defines what Krooglish is, there are no first
> tries.
> A. Krooger, 22 July 2003
>
>
>

March 17th 09, 10:05 AM

"Mark Harriss" > wrote in message
. au...
> TT wrote:
>> especially if some fine reds and few ports are consumed. Then the
>> reminiscing becomes embellishing ;-)
>>
>> Cheers TT
>>
>>
>
> Heh, why else is it called "A Rosy Glow"?

Rose' glow? ;-)

Cheers TT

March 17th 09, 10:08 AM

"Brian Gaff" > wrote in message
. ..
> Never mind folks as Msoft will not be shipping a news reader with Windows
> 7, nobody will know Usenet exists anyway after that.
> Brian
>
> --
Do believe after the fiasco of Vista that anyone will actually go to the
next M$ operating system?

Cheers TT

Iain Churches[_2_]

March 17th 09, 10:22 AM

"TT" > wrote in message
. au...
>
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> ...
>>

>>I had a very late night
>> last night, talking music until the early hours with an
>> old colleague I have not seen for a very long time .
>>

> Ah yes, an excellent way to spend an evening, especially if some fine reds
> and few ports are consumed. Then the reminiscing becomes embellishing ;-)
>

I have a bottle or two of Merlot 84, which I keep for such
occasions. The chap is a musicologist and teacher (guitar)
We discussed amongst other things the importance of key
signatures not only to the players (no one wants their part
to be in seven sharps, C# major:-) but aso in the way the
tune "sounds" Flat keys, Eb, Bb are often preferred for
jazz.

Iain

atec 77[_2_]

March 17th 09, 12:38 PM

TT wrote:
> "Brian Gaff" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> Never mind folks as Msoft will not be shipping a news reader with Windows
>> 7, nobody will know Usenet exists anyway after that.
>> Brian
>>
>> --
> Do believe after the fiasco of Vista that anyone will actually go to the
> next M$ operating system?
>
> Cheers TT
>
>
Well it is free if you know where to look

Arny Krueger

March 17th 09, 12:42 PM

"hophead" > wrote in message
t

> Speaking of which, what's the current toxicity level on
> RAO? Things were pretty clean for a while, but I've been
> noticing a persistant (sic) but rising stench.

Stop posting grasshopper, and the toxicity level will fall. Your posts are
nearly 100% toxic.

Get rid of the Middiot, and the rest of the Middiot posse will scatter like
the abject cowards that they are.

March 17th 09, 01:19 PM

"atec 77" <"atec 7 7 > wrote in message
...
> TT wrote:
>> "Brian Gaff" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>> Never mind folks as Msoft will not be shipping a news reader with
>>> Windows 7, nobody will know Usenet exists anyway after that.
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> --
>> Do believe after the fiasco of Vista that anyone will actually go to the
>> next M$ operating system?
>>
>> Cheers TT
> Well it is free if you know where to look

What service pack number is it up to already? And how many dodgy drivers
are included :-))

It will take a lot to get me away from XP Pro ;-)

Cheers TT

Arny Krueger

March 17th 09, 01:21 PM

"George M. Middiot" > wrote in
message

> My Master and Commander just demanded that it be made Ethics
> Commissioner for Usenet's audio groups.

As usual Middiot, you are very confused. My recent discussion with some of
the lesser members of the Middiot Posse related to cowardice, not ethics. Of
course as Senior Coward of the Middiot Posse, you would like to obfuscate
that fact.

Middiot, I wonder why you are still soldiering on after all these years? At
this point, you've rendered RAO totally useless for any reasonable purpose
at all. It appears that Bill Gates is going to render all of Usenet useless
with the next release of Windows. You've put forth all these years of
effort, and what you are left with is *nothing*.

March 17th 09, 01:31 PM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
...
>
> "TT" > wrote in message
> . au...
>>
>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>
>
>>>I had a very late night
>>> last night, talking music until the early hours with an
>>> old colleague I have not seen for a very long time .
>>>
>
>> Ah yes, an excellent way to spend an evening, especially if some fine
>> reds and few ports are consumed. Then the reminiscing becomes
>> embellishing ;-)
>>
>
> I have a bottle or two of Merlot 84, which I keep for such
> occasions.

Great. Open one to let it breathe a little and I'll be straight over. If
only it was that easy? I am very partial to Merlot. Except once when I
passed through LAX and I asked for a Merlo(t) and the bar staff corrected me
in a broad 'Ameriken' accent and said "No, it is a Mer-Lot." And then
proceeded to get it out of the refrigerator!!!!!!! It was a sweet French
wine more like raspberry cordial. So the wife drank it.

> The chap is a musicologist and teacher (guitar)
> We discussed amongst other things the importance of key
> signatures not only to the players (no one wants their part
> to be in seven sharps, C# major:-) but aso in the way the
> tune "sounds" Flat keys, Eb, Bb are often preferred for
> jazz.
>
Mmmmmmm............... perhaps I would be better off discussing "micing"
with your cat :-))

Cheers TT

Dave Plowman (News)

March 17th 09, 01:33 PM

In article >,
Arny Krueger > wrote:
> Middiot, I wonder why you are still soldiering on after all these years?
> At this point, you've rendered RAO totally useless for any reasonable
> purpose at all.

That's fine as I don't read it but why crosspost your squabbles to uk rec
audio? It's not as if it's even funny.

--
*Marathon runners with bad footwear suffer the agony of defeat*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

atec 77[_2_]

March 17th 09, 01:41 PM

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "hophead" > wrote in message
> t
>
>> Speaking of which, what's the current toxicity level on
>> RAO? Things were pretty clean for a while, but I've been
>> noticing a persistant (sic) but rising stench.
>
> Stop posting grasshopper, and the toxicity level will fall. Your posts are
> nearly 100% toxic.
>
> Get rid of the Middiot, and the rest of the Middiot posse will scatter like
> the abject cowards that they are.
>
>
As opposed to yours ?
those of a bumpkin.

atec 77[_2_]

March 17th 09, 01:43 PM

TT wrote:
> "atec 77" <"atec 7 7 > wrote in message
> ...
>> TT wrote:
>>> "Brian Gaff" > wrote in message
>>> . ..
>>>> Never mind folks as Msoft will not be shipping a news reader with
>>>> Windows 7, nobody will know Usenet exists anyway after that.
>>>> Brian
>>>>
>>>> --
>>> Do believe after the fiasco of Vista that anyone will actually go to the
>>> next M$ operating system?
>>>
>>> Cheers TT
>> Well it is free if you know where to look
>
> What service pack number is it up to already? And how many dodgy drivers
> are included :-))
so far proving not to need them

installed ferpectly on a quad xeon (3 gig) with 11 gig ram and 6x174
gig scsi...
>
> It will take a lot to get me away from XP Pro ;-)
it's ok for a home o/s I guess
maybe you should try a real o/s from one of the unix areas ?
>
> Cheers TT
>
>

[email protected]

March 17th 09, 05:19 PM

On 17 Mar, 08:42, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> "hophead" > wrote in message
>
> t
>
> > Speaking of which, what's the current toxicity level on
> > RAO? Things were pretty clean for a while, but I've been
> > noticing a persistant (sic) but rising stench.
>
> Stop posting grasshopper, and the toxicity level will fall. *Your posts are
> nearly 100% toxic.
>
> Get rid of the Middiot, and the rest of the Middiot posse will scatter like
> the abject cowards that they are.

i will always be here to microwave the cockroach.
Even if it doesn't work, but it sure is fun

[email protected]

March 17th 09, 05:21 PM

On 17 Mar, 09:21, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:

It appears that Bill Gates is going to render all of Usenet useless
> with the next release of Windows. *

There goes your wonnderful Usenet career, flushed like
one of your turds.

PhattyMo[_2_]

March 17th 09, 07:37 PM

George M. Middius wrote:
>
>
> The Krooborg just demanded that it be made Ethics Commissioner for Usenet's
> audio groups. (I'm not going to reproduce the post here. You'll have to dig
> through the past 24 hours of Kroo-droppings on RAO.)
>
>
>
> --
>
> Words don't have just one meaning.
> Combinations of words don't have just one meaning.
> A. Krooger, 9 December 2008
>
> Since everything I write defines what Krooglish is, there are no first tries.
> A. Krooger, 22 July 2003
>
>
>

For ****s Sake..
Does *ANYONE* give a **** about the bull**** that spews from _either_ of
your faces? NO. Get over yourselves already.

/Plonk-ola.

George M. Middius[_4_]

March 17th 09, 07:52 PM

PhattyMo squawked:

> > --
> > Words don't have just one meaning.
> > Combinations of words don't have just one meaning.
> > A. Krooger, 9 December 2008
> > Since everything I write defines what Krooglish is, there are no first tries.
> > A. Krooger, 22 July 2003

You included my sig block in your "reply", Mo. Are you not smart enough to
configure your newsreader to skip over a sig block?

> For ****s Sake..

<sigh>

Another semiliterate yahoo bitches and moans about something he should be
ignoring.... If Usenet dies, will the Phattys of the world die with it?

--

"Music is irrelavant to audio." -- A. Krooger, RAO, 2005

Iain Churches[_2_]

March 17th 09, 08:32 PM

"TT" > wrote in message
. au...
>
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "TT" > wrote in message
>> . au...
>>>
>>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>
>>
>>>>I had a very late night
>>>> last night, talking music until the early hours with an
>>>> old colleague I have not seen for a very long time .
>>>>
>>
>>> Ah yes, an excellent way to spend an evening, especially if some fine
>>> reds and few ports are consumed. Then the reminiscing becomes
>>> embellishing ;-)
>>>
>>
>> I have a bottle or two of Merlot 84, which I keep for such
>> occasions.
>
> Great. Open one to let it breathe a little and I'll be straight over.

Welcome, TT, any time:-)

If
> only it was that easy? I am very partial to Merlot. Except once when I
> passed through LAX and I asked for a Merlo(t) and the bar staff corrected
> me in a broad 'Ameriken' accent and said "No, it is a Mer-Lot."

Ah that's Mer-Lot as in Job-Lot :-)
with ice and lemon, and one of those plastic imitation ice-cubes
that lights up when in liquid?

I once had a girlfriend who was partial to a single malt now
and again. She sometimes politely refused it when the barman
put ice in the glass without asking her first. She got blacklisted
from a very posh club in Chelsea, when the waiter asked,
"shall I add some water?" She took a sip and replied,
"I think you might have done that already!"

>> The chap is a musicologist and teacher (guitar)
>> We discussed amongst other things the importance of key
>> signatures not only to the players (no one wants their part
>> to be in seven sharps, C# major:-) but aso in the way the
>> tune "sounds" Flat keys, Eb, Bb are often preferred for
>> jazz.

These are exactly the fine philsophical points of music which
blossom after a glass or two of Merlot.
>>
> Mmmmmmm............... perhaps I would be better off discussing "micing"
> with your cat :-))

LOL. I have recently taken up the tenor saxophone. My wife,
who knows I am a great Ellington fan, bought me a small carved
figurine of a cat playing a sax. She gave it to me, and said "It's
Cat Anderson" So be it! It was such a lovely gesture that
I did not have the heart to tell her that Cat Anderson was a
trumpet player:-)

Iain

Iain Churches[_2_]

March 17th 09, 08:32 PM

roughplanet[_2_]

March 17th 09, 10:22 PM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
...

"Mark Harriss" > wrote in message
. au...

TT wrote:

>>> especially if some fine reds and few ports are consumed. Then the
>>> reminiscing becomes embellishing ;-)

>> Heh, why else is it called "A Rosy Glow"?

> Or a "Blue glow" from a tube amp playing Duke Ellington:-)

Now you're talking. I spent a marvellous evening last night playing a few
albums of Charlie Parker (I am a VERY big fan - more than 50 LP's & the same
number of CD's).

It was truly awsome to hear the recordings from his heyday back in the late
40's & early 50's, especially one rather noisy recorded album called
'Charkie Parker Live at St. Nicks'. But it didn't alter the quality of his
playing, which was simply amazing - effortless blowing & improvisation of
the highest order. I was in Seventh Heaven. He truly was 'The Master' and
even guys like John Coltrane, Stan Getz, Sony Rollins & Sonny Stitt were
just wannabe's when compared to Bird.

As the song says...."Oh what a night', but alas, no port or red wine . Those
days are over for me, but I did manage a smmall tipple of JW's Blue Label on
ice. Ahhhhhhhh....smooth as a baby's bottom :-).

ruff

roughplanet[_2_]

March 17th 09, 10:38 PM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
...

"TT" > wrote in message
. au...

>>>I had a very late night last night, talking music until the early hours
>>>with an
>>> old colleague I have not seen for a very long time .

>> Ah yes, an excellent way to spend an evening, especially if some fine
>> reds and few ports are consumed. Then the reminiscing becomes
>> embellishing ;-)

> I have a bottle or two of Merlot 84, which I keep for such
> occasions. The chap is a musicologist and teacher (guitar)
> We discussed amongst other things the importance of key
> signatures not only to the players (no one wants their part
> to be in seven sharps, C# major:-) but aso in the way the
> tune "sounds" Flat keys, Eb, Bb are often preferred for
> jazz.

Iain, I have just purchased a new jazz guitar as my arthritis makes playing
classical guitar, with its wide neck & fingering too difficult these days.

I also managed to get a nice Laney tube amp to accompany it, and, would you
believe, it has the same tubes as my TT SET amp, vis 12AX7's for drivers &
EL84's for finals. What a coup!

The guitar was a sample from a well respected Chinese manufacturer (Electa)
who, because it was their first offering, really put a great deal of effort
into it. I am amazed at how well the Chinese can build ANYTHING if they
REALLY want to.The neck & fingerboard are as good
as those on my old Gibson 355. I really don't know how they do it, either
for the price or even at all!

This axe sounds wonderful; exactly like the guitars Jim Hall plays & I
bought a few books on scales; Eb, Bb, etc. together with some scores, and as
you suggested, hope that there's not too many of those bloody sharps in any
of the tunes:-).

Regards,

ruff

roughplanet[_2_]

March 17th 09, 10:42 PM

"TT" > wrote in message
...

"Brian Gaff" > wrote in message
. ..

>> Never mind folks as Msoft will not be shipping a news reader with Windows
>> 7, nobody will know Usenet exists anyway after that.
>> Brian

> Do believe after the fiasco of Vista that anyone will actually go to the
> next M$ operating system?

Did you TT? I don't know anybody who bought it who is still using it. I have
had 3 computers running XP since 2002 and none of them have even come close
to falling over.

Why would you change?

ruff

roughplanet[_2_]

March 17th 09, 10:48 PM

"atec 77" <"atec 7 7 > wrote in message
...

TT wrote:

"Brian Gaff" > wrote in message
>> . ..

>>> Never mind folks as Msoft will not be shipping a news reader with
>>> Windows 7, nobody will know Usenet exists anyway after that.

>> Do believe after the fiasco of Vista that anyone will actually go to the
>> next M$ operating system?

> Well it is free if you know where to look

That is, until one late night when you've misplaced your glasses you allow
Micro$oft's Genuine Advantage so-called 'update' download onto your machine
& then up comes a message that says that the software isn't genuine & the
screen changes to black!

Great stuff. But a $225.00 purchase of a genuine Micro$soft WinXP will
alleviate the problem, and after all, everyone should own at least one
genuine copy.

ruff

roughplanet[_2_]

March 17th 09, 11:06 PM

"atec 77" <"atec 7 7 > wrote in message news:gpo9
...

TT wrote:

Brian Gaff" > wrote in message
. ..

>>>>> Never mind folks as Msoft will not be shipping a news reader with
>>>>> Windows 7, nobody will know Usenet exists anyway after that.

>>>> Do believe after the fiasco of Vista that anyone will actually go to
>>>> the next M$ operating system?

>>> Well it is free if you know where to look

>> What service pack number is it up to already? And how many dodgy drivers
>> are included :-))

> so far proving not to need them
> installed ferpectly on a quad xeon (3 gig) with 11 gig ram and 6x174 gig
> scsi...

>> It will take a lot to get me away from XP Pro ;-)

> it's ok for a home o/s I guess
> maybe you should try a real o/s from one of the unix areas ?

Why? If XP does everything that you need, who needs the steep learning
curve of (say) Linux?

I have been running Linux since before v1.0 came out, have written numerous
drivers
and several applications and even with Wine or VMWare am still unable to run
many of my Comms programs and so still require Win3.11, Win98SE and WinXP to
accommodate all of it.

Apart from that, because it's not in daily use, I sometimes need to look up
the command line instructions if I want to change anything requiring root
privileges.
And that's from someone who began using the source code & compiling kernels
in 1991!

Linux is for people with a mainframe (Unix) background or a university
degree in IT. It is not for Mr & Mrs Joe Average no matter what you say,
even if the GUI's are becoming more user friendly every day. Try getting a
novice to install (say) Apache, or even find & install Midnight Commander on
their Linux box & you'll see what I mean.

ruff

hophead

March 17th 09, 11:14 PM

In article >,
says...

> It was truly awsome to hear the recordings from his heyday back in the late
> 40's & early 50's, especially one rather noisy recorded album called
> 'Charkie Parker Live at St. Nicks'. But it didn't alter the quality of his
> playing, which was simply amazing - effortless blowing & improvisation of
> the highest order. I was in Seventh Heaven. He truly was 'The Master' and
> even guys like John Coltrane, Stan Getz, Sony Rollins & Sonny Stitt were
> just wannabe's when compared to Bird.

No argument from me. Parker was truely amazing. I've come to jazz kind
of late and only recently discovered Bird. Some of the recording quality
isn't great, but the playing sure makes up for it.

>
> As the song says...."Oh what a night', but alas, no port or red wine . Those
> days are over for me, but I did manage a smmall tipple of JW's Blue Label on
> ice. Ahhhhhhhh....smooth as a baby's bottom :-).

Oh dear, I almost feel obliged to scold you for that ice, but I'll
refrain ;-)

KeithR

March 17th 09, 11:32 PM

roughplanet wrote:
> "atec 77" <"atec 7 7 > wrote in message
> ...
>
> TT wrote:
>
> "Brian Gaff" > wrote in message
>>> . ..
>
>>>> Never mind folks as Msoft will not be shipping a news reader with
>>>> Windows 7, nobody will know Usenet exists anyway after that.
>
>>> Do believe after the fiasco of Vista that anyone will actually go to the
>>> next M$ operating system?
>
>> Well it is free if you know where to look
>
> That is, until one late night when you've misplaced your glasses you allow
> Micro$oft's Genuine Advantage so-called 'update' download onto your machine
> & then up comes a message that says that the software isn't genuine & the
> screen changes to black!
>
> Great stuff. But a $225.00 purchase of a genuine Micro$soft WinXP will
> alleviate the problem, and after all, everyone should own at least one
> genuine copy.
>
> ruff
>
>
He's talking about a free beta which self-destructs in August. I've been
trying it, it's not too bad, a lot better than Vista, but I'll stick
with my XP pro for now. Linux is OK but Photoshop doesn't run too well
under it and The Gimp is a pretty poor substitute. Its also kind of
difficult to develop C# apps under Linux.

Keith

KeithR

March 17th 09, 11:35 PM

Brian Gaff wrote:
> Never mind folks as Msoft will not be shipping a news reader with Windows 7,
> nobody will know Usenet exists anyway after that.
> Brian
>
Anybody too lazy to download Thunderbird (for free) deserves everything
that they get.

Keith

roughplanet[_2_]

March 17th 09, 11:45 PM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...

"George M. Middiot" > wrote in
message

>> My Master and Commander just demanded that it be made Ethics
>> Commissioner for Usenet's audio groups.

> As usual Middiot, you are very confused. My recent discussion with some of
> the lesser members of the Middiot Posse related to cowardice, not ethics.
> Of course as Senior Coward of the Middiot Posse, you would like to
> obfuscate that fact.
>
> Middiot, I wonder why you are still soldiering on after all these years?
> At this point, you've rendered RAO totally useless for any reasonable
> purpose at all. It appears that Bill Gates is going to render all of
> Usenet useless with the next release of Windows. You've put forth all
> these years of effort, and what you are left with is *nothing*.

What a self opiniated, argumentative, ignorant, religious zealot you are
Krooborg.
If prizes were given out for the most unpopular person on Usenet, you'd win
in a landslide.

You have the personality of Ghengis Khan, the IQ of a fencepost & the
bravado of Tom Cruise all rolled into one unholy mess (pun intended).

You have been shown to be a total fool on numerous occassions, confusing me
with TT, and sundry others as well, and your many blunders in arguments
about matters audio are nothing short of legendary.

I'm surprised you still have the hide to even show your face on this and
other newsgroups. I guess that just indicates your level of stupidity.

Why don't you do the right thing & just end your miserable life, thus
pleasing hundreds if not thousands of people. It's the only way you'll ever
achieve any level of. popularity.

Goodbye & thanks for the fish. NOT!

ruff

March 17th 09, 11:56 PM

"roughplanet" > wrote in message
u...
> "TT" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> "Brian Gaff" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>>> Never mind folks as Msoft will not be shipping a news
>>> reader with Windows 7, nobody will know Usenet exists
>>> anyway after that.
>>> Brian
>
>> Do believe after the fiasco of Vista that anyone will
>> actually go to the next M$ operating system?
>
> Did you TT?

No, not me. But I do have two daughters with Vista on their
laptops that I am the IT "eggspurt" for ;-) They use it as
a word processor and email/MSN device only. And because it
keeps asking them for admin rights they don't get to change
anything. Oh and they think it looks pretty ;-)

> I don't know anybody who bought it who is still using it.
> I have had 3 computers running XP since 2002 and none of
> them have even come close to falling over.

Same here, 3 desktops and 2 laptops. I have even bought a
new Dell (El Cheapo for work) and *paid* to roll Vista back!

>
> Why would you change?

Exactly. But I do have a mate that has just gone Apple.
Well that was an interesting exercise to say the least. He
keeps asking me if I know how to get things working. M$
maybe a PITA but at least I know how to stop making it itch
;-)

Cheers TT

KeithR

March 18th 09, 12:36 AM

TT wrote:
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "TT" > wrote in message
>> . au...
>>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>
>>>> I had a very late night
>>>> last night, talking music until the early hours with an
>>>> old colleague I have not seen for a very long time .
>>>>
>>> Ah yes, an excellent way to spend an evening, especially if some fine
>>> reds and few ports are consumed. Then the reminiscing becomes
>>> embellishing ;-)
>>>
>> I have a bottle or two of Merlot 84, which I keep for such
>> occasions.
>
> Great. Open one to let it breathe a little and I'll be straight over. If
> only it was that easy? I am very partial to Merlot. Except once when I
> passed through LAX and I asked for a Merlo(t) and the bar staff corrected me
> in a broad 'Ameriken' accent and said "No, it is a Mer-Lot." And then
> proceeded to get it out of the refrigerator!!!!!!! It was a sweet French
> wine more like raspberry cordial. So the wife drank it.
>
That explains a lot, the only time that I tried Mer-Lot was while I was
living in the US. I immediately put it on my list of experiences not to
repeat.

Keith

March 18th 09, 12:56 AM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
...
>
> "TT" > wrote in message
> . au...
>>
>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "TT" > wrote in message
>>> . au...
>>>>
>>>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>I had a very late night
>>>>> last night, talking music until the early hours with
>>>>> an
>>>>> old colleague I have not seen for a very long time .
>>>>>
>>>
>>>> Ah yes, an excellent way to spend an evening,
>>>> especially if some fine
>>>> reds and few ports are consumed. Then the reminiscing
>>>> becomes
>>>> embellishing ;-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> I have a bottle or two of Merlot 84, which I keep for
>>> such
>>> occasions.
>>
>> Great. Open one to let it breathe a little and I'll be
>> straight over.
>
> Welcome, TT, any time:-)

I *DO* really want to hear your toob gear but alas, Europe
is on the back burner for another year or two :-(

>
> If
>> only it was that easy? I am very partial to Merlot.
>> Except once when I
>> passed through LAX and I asked for a Merlo(t) and the bar
>> staff corrected
>> me in a broad 'Ameriken' accent and said "No, it is a
>> Mer-Lot."
>
> Ah that's Mer-Lot as in Job-Lot :-)

Yep.

> with ice and lemon, and one of those plastic imitation
> ice-cubes
> that lights up when in liquid?
>
You forgot the plastic straw with the fancy twist in it and
one of those little umbrellas ;-)

> I once had a girlfriend who was partial to a single malt
> now
> and again. She sometimes politely refused it when the
> barman
> put ice in the glass without asking her first. She got
> blacklisted
> from a very posh club in Chelsea, when the waiter asked,
> "shall I add some water?" She took a sip and replied,
> "I think you might have done that already!"
>
Lucky you. I'm not allowed to remember my girlfriends ;-)

>>> The chap is a musicologist and teacher (guitar)
>>> We discussed amongst other things the importance of key
>>> signatures not only to the players (no one wants their
>>> part
>>> to be in seven sharps, C# major:-) but aso in the way
>>> the
>>> tune "sounds" Flat keys, Eb, Bb are often preferred for
>>> jazz.
>
> These are exactly the fine philsophical points of music
> which
> blossom after a glass or two of Merlot.
>>>
>> Mmmmmmm............... perhaps I would be better off
>> discussing "micing"
>> with your cat :-))
>
>
> LOL. I have recently taken up the tenor saxophone. My
> wife,
> who knows I am a great Ellington fan, bought me a small
> carved
> figurine of a cat playing a sax. She gave it to me, and
> said "It's
> Cat Anderson" So be it! It was such a lovely gesture
> that
> I did not have the heart to tell her that Cat Anderson was
> a
> trumpet player:-)
>
I don't have a musical bone in my body :-( My closest claim
to being able to play anything was the four chords in "Smoke
on the Water" with an electric guitar ;-)

Cheers TT

MiNe 109

March 18th 09, 01:01 AM

In article >,
keithr > wrote:

> TT wrote:
> > "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> "TT" > wrote in message
> >> . au...
> >>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> >>> ...
> >>
> >>>> I had a very late night
> >>>> last night, talking music until the early hours with an
> >>>> old colleague I have not seen for a very long time .
> >>>>
> >>> Ah yes, an excellent way to spend an evening, especially if some fine
> >>> reds and few ports are consumed. Then the reminiscing becomes
> >>> embellishing ;-)
> >>>
> >> I have a bottle or two of Merlot 84, which I keep for such
> >> occasions.
> >
> > Great. Open one to let it breathe a little and I'll be straight over. If
> > only it was that easy? I am very partial to Merlot. Except once when I
> > passed through LAX and I asked for a Merlo(t) and the bar staff corrected
> > me
> > in a broad 'Ameriken' accent and said "No, it is a Mer-Lot." And then
> > proceeded to get it out of the refrigerator!!!!!!! It was a sweet French
> > wine more like raspberry cordial. So the wife drank it.
> >
> That explains a lot, the only time that I tried Mer-Lot was while I was
> living in the US. I immediately put it on my list of experiences not to
> repeat.

Someone else meets a bone-head airport bartender and you write off a
varietal?

Stephen

March 18th 09, 01:01 AM

"keithr" > wrote in message
...
> TT wrote:
>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "TT" > wrote in message
>>> . au...
>>>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>
>>>>> I had a very late night
>>>>> last night, talking music until the early hours with
>>>>> an
>>>>> old colleague I have not seen for a very long time .
>>>>>
>>>> Ah yes, an excellent way to spend an evening,
>>>> especially if some fine reds and few ports are
>>>> consumed. Then the reminiscing becomes embellishing
>>>> ;-)
>>>>
>>> I have a bottle or two of Merlot 84, which I keep for
>>> such
>>> occasions.
>>
>> Great. Open one to let it breathe a little and I'll be
>> straight over. If only it was that easy? I am very
>> partial to Merlot. Except once when I passed through LAX
>> and I asked for a Merlo(t) and the bar staff corrected me
>> in a broad 'Ameriken' accent and said "No, it is a
>> Mer-Lot." And then proceeded to get it out of the
>> refrigerator!!!!!!! It was a sweet French wine more like
>> raspberry cordial. So the wife drank it.
>>
> That explains a lot, the only time that I tried Mer-Lot
> was while I was living in the US. I immediately put it on
> my list of experiences not to repeat.
>
> Keith

There are a lot of fine Oz Merlots, as with many other
types, and I do suggest you try again. This time at room
temperature and after it has breathed a bit.

Cheers TT

KeithR

March 18th 09, 02:39 AM

MiNe 109 wrote:
> In article >,
> keithr > wrote:
>
>> TT wrote:
>>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> "TT" > wrote in message
>>>> . au...
>>>>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> I had a very late night
>>>>>> last night, talking music until the early hours with an
>>>>>> old colleague I have not seen for a very long time .
>>>>>>
>>>>> Ah yes, an excellent way to spend an evening, especially if some fine
>>>>> reds and few ports are consumed. Then the reminiscing becomes
>>>>> embellishing ;-)
>>>>>
>>>> I have a bottle or two of Merlot 84, which I keep for such
>>>> occasions.
>>> Great. Open one to let it breathe a little and I'll be straight over. If
>>> only it was that easy? I am very partial to Merlot. Except once when I
>>> passed through LAX and I asked for a Merlo(t) and the bar staff corrected
>>> me
>>> in a broad 'Ameriken' accent and said "No, it is a Mer-Lot." And then
>>> proceeded to get it out of the refrigerator!!!!!!! It was a sweet French
>>> wine more like raspberry cordial. So the wife drank it.
>>>
>> That explains a lot, the only time that I tried Mer-Lot was while I was
>> living in the US. I immediately put it on my list of experiences not to
>> repeat.
>
> Someone else meets a bone-head airport bartender and you write off a
> varietal?
>
> Stephen

Nope, in an otherwise very nice restaurant sharing a bottle with some
American friends who seemed to think it quite acceptable. Having not
tried it elsewhere, I assumed that that was just the way it was meant to
be. Whilst living in the States, I also tried White Zinfandel once, that
was enough, I have a sweet tooth, but that was just too much.

Keith

[email protected]

March 18th 09, 05:19 AM

On 17 Mar, 22:39, keithr > wrote:
> MiNe 109 wrote:
> > In article >,
> > *keithr > wrote:
>
> >> TT wrote:
> >>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>> "TT" > wrote in message
> . au...
> >>>>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>>>> I had a very late night
> >>>>>> last night, talking music until the early hours with an
> >>>>>> old colleague I have not seen for a very long time .
>
> >>>>> Ah yes, an excellent way to spend an evening, especially if some fine
> >>>>> reds and few ports are consumed. *Then the reminiscing becomes
> >>>>> embellishing ;-)
>
> >>>> I have a bottle or two of Merlot 84, which I keep for such
> >>>> occasions.
> >>> Great. *Open one to let it breathe a little and I'll be straight over. *If
> >>> only it was that easy? *I am very partial to Merlot. *Except once when I
> >>> passed through LAX and I asked for a Merlo(t) and the bar staff corrected
> >>> me
> >>> in a broad 'Ameriken' accent and said "No, it is a Mer-Lot." *And then
> >>> proceeded to get it out of the refrigerator!!!!!!! *It was a sweet French
> >>> wine more like raspberry cordial. *So the wife drank it.
>
> >> That explains a lot, the only time that I tried Mer-Lot was while I was
> >> living in the US. I immediately put it on my list of experiences not to
> >> repeat.
>
> > Someone else meets a bone-head airport bartender and you write off a
> > varietal?
>
> > Stephen
>
> Nope, in an otherwise very nice restaurant sharing a bottle with some
> American friends who seemed to think it quite acceptable. Having not
> tried it elsewhere, I assumed that that was just the way it was meant to
> be. Whilst living in the States, I also tried White Zinfandel once, that
> was enough, I have a sweet tooth, but that was just too much.
>
> Keith-

it seems you haven't tried a quality california merlot.
you seem to be fixated on $7.99 specials and girly wine

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!

March 18th 09, 05:30 AM

On Mar 17, 3:32*pm, "Iain Churches" > wrote:
> "Mark Harriss" > wrote in message

> > TT wrote:
> >> especially if some fine reds and few ports are consumed. *Then the
> >> reminiscing becomes embellishing ;-)

> > *Heh, why else is it called "A Rosy Glow"?
>
> Or a "Blue glow" from a tube amp playing
> Duke Ellington:-)

Tube amps playing Ellington have an "indigo glow".

roughplanet[_2_]

March 18th 09, 05:42 AM

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in message
...

On Mar 17, 3:32 pm, "Iain Churches" > wrote:

"Mark Harriss" > wrote in message

TT wrote:

> >> especially if some fine reds and few ports are consumed. Then the
> >> reminiscing becomes embellishing ;-)

> > Heh, why else is it called "A Rosy Glow"?
> Or a "Blue glow" from a tube amp playing
> Duke Ellington:-)

Tube amps playing Ellington have an "indigo glow".

Or create an 'indigo mood' :-).

roughplanet[_2_]

March 18th 09, 05:47 AM

"keithr" > wrote in message
...

MiNe 109 wrote:

In article >,

TT wrote:

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
...

>>>>>>> I had a very late night last night, talking music until the early
>>>>>>> hours with an
>>>>>>> old colleague I have not seen for a very long time .

>>>>>> Ah yes, an excellent way to spend an evening, especially if some fine
>>>>>> reds and few ports are consumed. Then the reminiscing becomes
>>>>>> embellishing ;-)

>>>>> I have a bottle or two of Merlot 84, which I keep for such
>>>>> occasions.

>>>> Great. Open one to let it breathe a little and I'll be straight over.
>>>> If only it was that easy? I am very partial to Merlot. Except once
>>>> when I passed through LAX and I asked for a Merlo(t) and the bar staff
>>>> corrected me in a broad 'Ameriken' accent and said "No, it is a
>>>> Mer-Lot." And then proceeded to get it out of the refrigerator!!!!!!!
>>>> It was a sweet French wine more like raspberry cordial. So the wife
>>>> drank it.

>>> That explains a lot, the only time that I tried Mer-Lot was while I was
>>> living in the US. I immediately put it on my list of experiences not to
>>> repeat.

>> Someone else meets a bone-head airport bartender and you write off a
>> varietal?

> Nope, in an otherwise very nice restaurant sharing a bottle with some
> American friends who seemed to think it quite acceptable. Having not tried
> it elsewhere, I assumed that that was just the way it was meant to be.
> Whilst living in the States, I also tried White Zinfandel once, that was
> enough, I have a sweet tooth, but that was just too much.

NZ wineries do a very nice DRY Zinfandel. Interesting :-).

ruff

roughplanet[_2_]

March 18th 09, 05:55 AM

"keithr" > wrote in message
...

roughplanet wrote:

"atec 77" <"atec 7 7 > wrote in message
...

TT wrote:

"Brian Gaff" > wrote in message
. ..

>>>>> Never mind folks as Msoft will not be shipping a news reader with
>>>>> Windows 7, nobody will know Usenet exists anyway after that.

>>>> Do believe after the fiasco of Vista that anyone will actually go to
>>>> the next M$ operating system?

>>> Well it is free if you know where to look

>> That is, until one late night when you've misplaced your glasses you
>> allow Micro$oft's Genuine Advantage so-called 'update' download onto your
>> machine & then up comes a message that says that the software isn't
>> genuine & the screen changes to black!
>>
>> Great stuff. But a $225.00 purchase of a genuine Micro$soft WinXP will
>> alleviate the problem, and after all, everyone should own at least one
>> genuine copy.

> He's talking about a free beta which self-destructs in August. I've been
> trying it, it's not too bad, a lot better than Vista, but I'll stick with
> my XP pro for now. Linux is OK but Photoshop doesn't run too well under it
> and The Gimp is a pretty poor substitute. Its also kind of difficult to
> develop C# apps under Linux.

Then use Python instead. It's a bloody sight easier to use & the outcomes,
in my experience, are pretty much the same, if a tad slower. Besides, you
can hang it on C++ code with a linker & voila! You have your app ready made
:-).

ruff

roughplanet[_2_]

March 18th 09, 05:57 AM

"keithr" > wrote in message
...

Brian Gaff wrote:

>> Never mind folks as Msoft will not be shipping a news reader with Windows
>> 7, nobody will know Usenet exists anyway after that.

> Anybody too lazy to download Thunderbird (for free) deserves everything
> that they get.

Hear hear, as well as Firefox. M$ deserve everything that happens to them.

ruff

George M. Middius[_4_]

March 18th 09, 06:03 AM

Time for some wine snobbery.

> you seem to be fixated on $7.99 specials and girly wine

Indeed. In Transylvania, real men drink slivovitz.

Jenn[_2_]

March 18th 09, 06:04 AM

In article
>,
"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote:

> On Mar 17, 3:32*pm, "Iain Churches" > wrote:
> > "Mark Harriss" > wrote in message
>
> > > TT wrote:
> > >> especially if some fine reds and few ports are consumed. *Then the
> > >> reminiscing becomes embellishing ;-)
>
> > > *Heh, why else is it called "A Rosy Glow"?
> >
> > Or a "Blue glow" from a tube amp playing
> > Duke Ellington:-)
>
> Tube amps playing Ellington have an "indigo glow".

lol

George M. Middius[_4_]

March 18th 09, 06:06 AM

roughplanet said:

> NZ wineries do a very nice DRY Zinfandel. Interesting :-).

In the States, where almost all Zin comes from California, they run the
gamut from cheap plonk to Serious Banquet Wine. I bought my first bottle in
the '70s at university. I think it cost $8, and it was worth it. Can't
remember how I got the tip. Might have been Inglenook label.

George M. Middius[_4_]

March 18th 09, 06:09 AM

keithr said:

> Anybody too lazy to download Thunderbird (for free) deserves everything
> that they get.

I agree that using a proper news client is a no-brainer, but some brainless
twits have downloaded TB. You can tell they're thick in the head because
they don't know how to make it work properly.

Jenn[_2_]

March 18th 09, 06:13 AM

In article >,
George M. Middius > wrote:

> roughplanet said:
>
> > NZ wineries do a very nice DRY Zinfandel. Interesting :-).
>
> In the States, where almost all Zin comes from California, they run the
> gamut from cheap plonk to Serious Banquet Wine. I bought my first bottle in
> the '70s at university. I think it cost $8, and it was worth it. Can't
> remember how I got the tip. Might have been Inglenook label.

I live in CA in the area where the "wine movie" Sideways was filmed.
I've never really liked wine, but I tried some Zin because of the buzz
around here about the movie, and because I sometimes play at wineries.
I've grown to rather like it.

March 18th 09, 06:19 AM

"roughplanet" > wrote in message
u...
> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" >
> wrote in message
> ...
>
> On Mar 17, 3:32 pm, "Iain Churches" >
> wrote:
>
> "Mark Harriss" > wrote in message
>
> TT wrote:
>
>> >> especially if some fine reds and few ports are
>> >> consumed. Then the
>> >> reminiscing becomes embellishing ;-)
>
>> > Heh, why else is it called "A Rosy Glow"?
>> Or a "Blue glow" from a tube amp playing
>> Duke Ellington:-)
>
> Tube amps playing Ellington have an "indigo glow".
>
> Or create an 'indigo mood' :-).
What about the smoky haze and the loud popping noises when
they get driven a bit hard? :-))

Cheers TT

Iain Churches[_2_]

March 18th 09, 09:07 AM

> wrote in message
...
The chap is a musicologist and teacher (guitar)
> We discussed amongst other things the importance of key
> signatures not only to the players (no one wants their part
> to be in seven sharps, C# major:-) but aso in the way the
> tune "sounds" Flat keys, Eb, Bb are often preferred for
> jazz.

The way you work with that is to have transposing instruments so
music is read in one key and played in another. Transposing pianos
were actually somewhat common in the very late nineteenth and early
twentieth century, though it is popularly supposed Irving Berlin had
the only one.

It's also of note that Chuck Berry dimed himself out by revealing
that his classic signature tunes were his lyrics, but the music of
pianist Johnnie Johnson...as Keith Richards even (as ever) in a THC
haze correctly surmmised, Eb. Bb, were piano keys,"..Johnnie's keys".
After the two had a falling out the only new song Berry had of note
was the novelty song, "My Ding-A-Ling". That was forty years ago.

Iain Churches[_2_]

March 18th 09, 09:48 AM

"roughplanet" > wrote in message

> Iain, I have just purchased a new jazz guitar as my arthritis makes
> playing classical guitar, with its wide neck & fingering too difficult
> these days.

That's what makes music such a great hobby. It is also very very
therapeutic. What kind of music do you play, Ruff? I can manage
only one chord on the guitar E minor. Ya can't get too far with that:-)
>
> I also managed to get a nice Laney tube amp to accompany it, and, would
> you believe, it has the same tubes as my TT SET amp, vis 12AX7's for
> drivers & EL84's for finals. What a coup!

Brilliant. What make is the guitar:-)

From the recording point of view, Guild and Martin sound very good,
but my favourite acoustic has to be the Olson, as played by James
Taylor.

> The guitar was a sample from a well respected Chinese manufacturer
> (Electa) who, because it was their first offering, really put a great deal
> of effort into it. I am amazed at how well the Chinese can build ANYTHING
> if they REALLY want to.

Yes of course they can! Their marketing strategy is to get cheap
goods on sale, at an irresistable price, to get them noticed, and then
by pushing up the quality, secure sales in the higher brackets.

>The neck & fingerboard are as good
> as those on my old Gibson 355. I really don't know how they do it, either
> for the price or even at all!

Careful scrutiny:-) Chinese tube amps used to be copies of 1950s
and 1960s American and British designs. Due to the poor (money saving)
transformers and components generally, the level of performace and
reliability in particular was not too good. Oddly enough, their chassis
(which cost a lot to fabricate elsewhere, are good, that is, of course
if you like the Chinese cosmeticstyle.

Bringing budget priced tube amps onto the market was something
of a double-edged sword. The cheap amp gave people who might
not have otherwise bought a CJ or similar, the opportunity to get
the "glowing musical experience" The down-side is that these cheapo
amps were prone to failure often within weeks. This gave people
the idea that tube amps are inherently unreliable:-(

> This axe sounds wonderful; exactly like the guitars Jim Hall plays & I
> bought a few books on scales; Eb, Bb, etc. together with some scores, and
> as you suggested, hope that there's not too many of those bloody sharps in
> any of the tunes:-).

Chords, keys and scales a fascinating and essential part of music.
The chap with whom I shared the Merlot the other evening has a PhD
and teaches music theory. I approach it from the other end - the
practical side:-)

E maj and A maj seem to be the favourite keys for guitarists. I used to
play in a quartet with a guitarist who could play in any key - he used
a capo:-)

Cheers
Iain

Iain Churches[_2_]

March 18th 09, 09:49 AM

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in message
...
On Mar 17, 3:32 pm, "Iain Churches" > wrote:
> "Mark Harriss" > wrote in message

>> > TT wrote:
>> >> especially if some fine reds and few ports are consumed. Then the
>> >> reminiscing becomes embellishing ;-)

>> > Heh, why else is it called "A Rosy Glow"?
>
>> Or a "Blue glow" from a tube amp playing
>> Duke Ellington:-)

>Tube amps playing Ellington have an "indigo glow".

Or a "Diminuendo and Crescendo in Blue"

It's one of the greatest Ellington compositions
of all time.

The performance at the Newport Jazz Festival in
1956, with the 27 chorus "interlude" by tenor
saxophonist Paul Gonzalves, put the Ellington
band back on the map when times were hard.

Iain

Iain Churches[_2_]

March 18th 09, 10:02 AM

> wrote in message
...

>>The chap is a musicologist and teacher (guitar)
>> We discussed amongst other things the importance of key
>> signatures not only to the players (no one wants their part
>> to be in seven sharps, C# major:-) but aso in the way the
>> tune "sounds" Flat keys, Eb, Bb are often preferred for
>> jazz.

> The way you work with that is to have transposing instruments so
>music is read in one key and played in another.

Yes. I am familiar with transposition. I have a diploma in music:-)
But the crux of the conversation was that certain types of
music sound better in certain keys. For example bright
piano etudes (Chopin etc) sound good in sharp keys, E maj
and B major.

The composer/arranger not only has to pick a key which
suits the composition but will be a "fluent" key for the instruments
that he intends to use. Listen to Jean Sibelius, in particular
the way he writes for French horns!

But as mentioned earlier most guitarists prefer E + A major.
That puts the tenor saxophone in F# major a key with six
sharps!

My colleague mentioned also that computer music software
often does strage things. In trying to retain the "integrity" of the
concert pitch key, it transposes while intelligently taking note of
the accidentals used in the part. So that if a part written in D
major concert has many flattened accidentals it may be transribed
into a flat key Cb for alto saxophone (wth seven flats) In practical
terms no such key exists!

>Transposing pianos
>were actually somewhat common in the very late nineteenth and early
>twentieth century, though it is popularly supposed Irving Berlin had
>the only one.

Certainly not the ony one. British composer Lionel Bart who wrote
pop songs such as "Livin' Doll" for Cliff Richard, and the theme music
for James Bond "From Russia with Love" plus the musicals "Oliver"
and "Blitz") had such a piano. It was said that he could play in only
one key, and used the shifting action of the piano to modulate to
a new key. I saw this piano a few times when it was brought to
Decca for Lionel Bart to put down demos.

>It's also of note that Chuck Berry dimed himself out by revealing
>that his classic signature tunes were his lyrics, but the music of
>pianist Johnnie Johnson...as Keith Richards even (as ever) in a THC
>haze correctly surmmised, Eb. Bb, were piano keys,"..Johnnie's keys".

Interesting. I once read a retrospective article by bass-player Eddie
Calhoun, who played with pianist Erroll Garner for a many years.
Garner could not read. All keys were the same to him, and he could
play equally well in any of them. Calhoun told that there were about
25 songs in the concert repertoire, which they played every night.
However, Erroll Garner never played them in the same order, or
even in the same key! Calhoun said that he used to have to listen
very intently and join in a split secodnd after the first note, having
established the key. Sometimes, Garner would play an intro, and
the modulate into a new key at the start of the verse where the
rhythm section were supposed to come in.

Ain't music fun:-))

Iain

Iain Churches[_2_]

March 18th 09, 10:07 AM

"TT" > wrote in message
...
>
> "roughplanet" > wrote in message
> u...
>> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in
>> message
>> ...
>>
>> On Mar 17, 3:32 pm, "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>>
>> "Mark Harriss" > wrote in message
>>
>> TT wrote:
>>
>>> >> especially if some fine reds and few ports are consumed. Then the
>>> >> reminiscing becomes embellishing ;-)

Morning TT.

This group has been pretty quiet for a while.
The mention of a good Merlot seems to have
made us all spring into life:-))

>>
>>> > Heh, why else is it called "A Rosy Glow"?
>>> Or a "Blue glow" from a tube amp playing
>>> Duke Ellington:-)
>>
>> Tube amps playing Ellington have an "indigo glow".
>>
>> Or create an 'indigo mood' :-).
> What about the smoky haze and the loud popping noises when they get driven
> a bit hard? :-))
>

Then you get out your Queen lyrics, and sing from
their brilliant song Bohemian Rhapsody -
"Thuderbolts and Lightning. Very very frightening"!

But that is not as common as one might think. In
forty years of tinkering with and abusing thermionic
bottles,. I have only witnessed pyrotechnics once,
and that was a Chinese KT88

An old friend of mine, Peter Lewis, a tube amp
guru in the UK used to joke that tube amps only
hum because the don't know the words.

With each each amp he built, he used to include
the lyric from Jethro Tull, "Slow Marching Band"

---- So, take a hand and take a bow.
You played for me; that's all for now, and never
mind the words just hum along and keep on going. ----

Iain

Iain Churches[_2_]

March 18th 09, 10:12 AM

"roughplanet" > wrote in message
...
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> "Mark Harriss" > wrote in message
> . au...
>
> TT wrote:
>
>>>> especially if some fine reds and few ports are consumed. Then the
>>>> reminiscing becomes embellishing ;-)
>
>>> Heh, why else is it called "A Rosy Glow"?
>
>> Or a "Blue glow" from a tube amp playing Duke Ellington:-)
>
> Now you're talking. I spent a marvellous evening last night playing a few
> albums of Charlie Parker (I am a VERY big fan - more than 50 LP's & the
> same number of CD's).

Hi Ruff.

Nice to see you posting here agan. Where have you been?

Yes, even after 54 years, Bird is still the main man. An incredibly
agile and fluid player with a fantastic technique and sense of melody.

There are some wonderful quotes attributed to him:

"You've got to learn your instrument. Then, you practice, practice,
practice. And then, when you finally get up there on the bandstand,
forget all that and just wail."

My favourite Bird title is "Koko"
(which funnily eough means "whole" or "complete" in Finnish.)

If you don't have it already there is a fascinating album called
"Supersax plays Bird" which dates from, 1972. I have it on
both vinyl and CD. The latter is impeccably mastered.
Supersax was a band formed by Med Flory who transcribed
note for note some of Bird's solo, and arranged them for a whole
saxophone section - five players in a big band.
It's a brilliant CD - highly recommended.

Johnny Hodges was another fine alto player, as was the lesser-
known Marshal Royal from the Count Basie Orchestra. His book
"Jazz Survivor" makes interesting reading.

One of my favourite alto players was Earl Bostic the pioneer R+B
saxophonist.. He had a very distinctive "growl" tone . His version
of Flamingo was a huge hit in the early fifties. He seems to have
influenced many players including John Coltrane.

I don't know whether you have it in Oz, but in this part of the
world Bostik is a name of a glue. A pal of mine in the UK who
does transcriptions and remastering, was compiling an Earl Bostic
album, and gave it the working title "Stuck on Bostic" I don't
know if it was released under that name.

> It was truly awsome to hear the recordings from his heyday back in the
> late 40's & early 50's, especially one rather noisy recorded album called
> 'Charkie Parker Live at St. Nicks'. But it didn't alter the quality of his
> playing, which was simply amazing - effortless blowing & improvisation of
> the highest order. I was in Seventh Heaven. He truly was 'The Master' and
> even guys like John Coltrane, Stan Getz, Sony Rollins & Sonny Stitt were
> just wannabe's when compared to Bird.

No you've got me started. I have a good selection of Parker material. I
shall dig some out later today, and have a listen:-)
>
> As the song says...."Oh what a night', but alas, no port or red wine .
> Those days are over for me, but I did manage a smmall tipple of JW's Blue
> Label on ice. Ahhhhhhhh....smooth as a baby's bottom :-).
>

Excellent, even without the ice:-) Are you partial to Irish whiskeys?
Jamesons and Bushmills seem to both be highly regarded.

Iain

KeithR

March 18th 09, 12:10 PM

roughplanet wrote:
> "keithr" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> roughplanet wrote:
>
> "atec 77" <"atec 7 7 > wrote in message
> ...
>
> TT wrote:
>
> "Brian Gaff" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>>>>>> Never mind folks as Msoft will not be shipping a news reader with
>>>>>> Windows 7, nobody will know Usenet exists anyway after that.
>
>>>>> Do believe after the fiasco of Vista that anyone will actually go to
>>>>> the next M$ operating system?
>
>>>> Well it is free if you know where to look
>
>>> That is, until one late night when you've misplaced your glasses you
>>> allow Micro$oft's Genuine Advantage so-called 'update' download onto your
>>> machine & then up comes a message that says that the software isn't
>>> genuine & the screen changes to black!
>>>
>>> Great stuff. But a $225.00 purchase of a genuine Micro$soft WinXP will
>>> alleviate the problem, and after all, everyone should own at least one
>>> genuine copy.
>
>> He's talking about a free beta which self-destructs in August. I've been
>> trying it, it's not too bad, a lot better than Vista, but I'll stick with
>> my XP pro for now. Linux is OK but Photoshop doesn't run too well under it
>> and The Gimp is a pretty poor substitute. Its also kind of difficult to
>> develop C# apps under Linux.
>
> Then use Python instead. It's a bloody sight easier to use & the outcomes,
> in my experience, are pretty much the same, if a tad slower. Besides, you
> can hang it on C++ code with a linker & voila! You have your app ready made
> :-).

Never tried Python, I make my living with C#, Delphi, a little Perl, and
a weird scripting language that probably not more than 20 people in the
world use (or want to use). They all require Windows.

I especially dislike C++ and Java, but I suspect that I will have to use
the latter at some point. I've been writing in Delphi on and off for the
last 14 years, but it is dying and C# is similar enough to seem familiar
(they were both architected by the same man)

I have used Linux on and off over the years, especially SUSE but never
for serious work.

Keith

Mark Harriss

March 18th 09, 12:30 PM

keithr wrote:
>
> Never tried Python, I make my living with C#, Delphi, a little Perl, and
> a weird scripting language that probably not more than 20 people in the
> world use (or want to use). They all require Windows.

Python is a really good interpreted programming language:
With careful design I've written image processing software with a GUI
that was developed and tested on a Linux box, used on a Mac running OSX
and could run on a windows PC. It ran on all three without modification.

The commercial version of python is a lot faster than the free version
which is no slouch either. Printing is still a bit of a pain though.

> I especially dislike C++ and Java, but I suspect that I will have to use
> the latter at some point. I've been writing in Delphi on and off for the
> last 14 years, but it is dying and C# is similar enough to seem familiar
> (they were both architected by the same man)

Python being a loosely typed language, you could consider it the
exact opposite of Java which I despise as being the most uptight anal
language I've ever been forced to use. It was written by control freaks
for control freaks. I find C and C++ far easier to use than Java.

March 18th 09, 12:39 PM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
...
>
> "TT" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "roughplanet" > wrote in message
>> u...
>>> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in
>>> message
>>> ...
>>>
>>> On Mar 17, 3:32 pm, "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>>>
>>> "Mark Harriss" > wrote in message
>>>
>>> TT wrote:
>>>
>>>> >> especially if some fine reds and few ports are consumed. Then the
>>>> >> reminiscing becomes embellishing ;-)
>
>
>
> Morning TT.
>
> This group has been pretty quiet for a while.
> The mention of a good Merlot seems to have
> made us all spring into life:-))
>

The perfect evening is some fine music, some fine wine and some excellent
company. Then, as the evening unfolds, the wine gets gulped, the music gets
louder and rockier and the stories inevitably start to sound more like epic
sagas :-)

>>>
>>>> > Heh, why else is it called "A Rosy Glow"?
>>>> Or a "Blue glow" from a tube amp playing
>>>> Duke Ellington:-)
>>>
>>> Tube amps playing Ellington have an "indigo glow".
>>>
>>> Or create an 'indigo mood' :-).
>> What about the smoky haze and the loud popping noises when they get
>> driven
>> a bit hard? :-))
>>
>
> Then you get out your Queen lyrics, and sing from
> their brilliant song Bohemian Rhapsody -
> "Thuderbolts and Lightning. Very very frightening"!

A more appropriate Queen song "Flash! Aaahhaa! Flash!
Arrrggghhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Perhaps ACDC - High Voltage ;-)

>
> But that is not as common as one might think. In
> forty years of tinkering with and abusing thermionic
> bottles,. I have only witnessed pyrotechnics once,
> and that was a Chinese KT88
>
That inspires confidence.

> An old friend of mine, Peter Lewis, a tube amp
> guru in the UK used to joke that tube amps only
> hum because the don't know the words.
>
:-))

> With each each amp he built, he used to include
> the lyric from Jethro Tull, "Slow Marching Band"
>
> ---- So, take a hand and take a bow.
> You played for me; that's all for now, and never
> mind the words just hum along and keep on going. ----

>
Cheers TT

MiNe 109

March 18th 09, 01:01 PM

In article >,
keithr > wrote:

> MiNe 109 wrote:
> > In article >,
> > keithr > wrote:
> >
> >> TT wrote:
> >>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> >>> ...
> >>>> "TT" > wrote in message
> >>>> . au...
> >>>>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> >>>>> ...
> >>>>>> I had a very late night
> >>>>>> last night, talking music until the early hours with an
> >>>>>> old colleague I have not seen for a very long time .
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> Ah yes, an excellent way to spend an evening, especially if some fine
> >>>>> reds and few ports are consumed. Then the reminiscing becomes
> >>>>> embellishing ;-)
> >>>>>
> >>>> I have a bottle or two of Merlot 84, which I keep for such
> >>>> occasions.
> >>> Great. Open one to let it breathe a little and I'll be straight over.
> >>> If
> >>> only it was that easy? I am very partial to Merlot. Except once when I
> >>> passed through LAX and I asked for a Merlo(t) and the bar staff corrected
> >>> me
> >>> in a broad 'Ameriken' accent and said "No, it is a Mer-Lot." And then
> >>> proceeded to get it out of the refrigerator!!!!!!! It was a sweet French
> >>> wine more like raspberry cordial. So the wife drank it.
> >>>
> >> That explains a lot, the only time that I tried Mer-Lot was while I was
> >> living in the US. I immediately put it on my list of experiences not to
> >> repeat.
> >
> > Someone else meets a bone-head airport bartender and you write off a
> > varietal?
> >
> > Stephen
>
> Nope, in an otherwise very nice restaurant sharing a bottle with some
> American friends who seemed to think it quite acceptable. Having not
> tried it elsewhere, I assumed that that was just the way it was meant to
> be.

Admittedly, most examples won't be that good, but that's true of many
things in life.

Merlot is a major component of Bordeaux reds.

> Whilst living in the States, I also tried White Zinfandel once, that
> was enough, I have a sweet tooth, but that was just too much.

This, on the other hand, I can whole-heartedly support.

Stephen

MiNe 109

March 18th 09, 01:06 PM

In article >,
"roughplanet" > wrote:

> "keithr" > wrote in message
> ...

> > Nope, in an otherwise very nice restaurant sharing a bottle with some
> > American friends who seemed to think it quite acceptable. Having not tried
> > it elsewhere, I assumed that that was just the way it was meant to be.
> > Whilst living in the States, I also tried White Zinfandel once, that was
> > enough, I have a sweet tooth, but that was just too much.
>
> NZ wineries do a very nice DRY Zinfandel. Interesting :-).

White Zin was a Californian response to the massive demand for white
wine in the eighties. It's more of a rose.

I didn't know anyone grew zinfandel overseas.

Stephen

MiNe 109

March 18th 09, 01:25 PM

In article
>,
Jenn > wrote:

> In article >,
> George M. Middius > wrote:
>
> > roughplanet said:
> >
> > > NZ wineries do a very nice DRY Zinfandel. Interesting :-).
> >
> > In the States, where almost all Zin comes from California, they run the
> > gamut from cheap plonk to Serious Banquet Wine. I bought my first bottle in
> > the '70s at university. I think it cost $8, and it was worth it. Can't
> > remember how I got the tip. Might have been Inglenook label.
>
> I live in CA in the area where the "wine movie" Sideways was filmed.
> I've never really liked wine, but I tried some Zin because of the buzz
> around here about the movie, and because I sometimes play at wineries.
> I've grown to rather like it.

That movie impacted Merlot sales negatively due to the lead character's
disdain for it. Ideally, "(i)t's Cabernet without the punishment,"
doesn't require aging and is relatively inexpensive for the quality
compared to pinots and cabs.

The Inglenook winery building is now home to Francis Coppola. The
Inglenook name is still out there with no connection to its former
owners or vineyards.

Stephen

MiNe 109

March 18th 09, 01:27 PM

In article >,
"Iain Churches" > wrote:

> > wrote in message
> ...
> The chap is a musicologist and teacher (guitar)
> > We discussed amongst other things the importance of key
> > signatures not only to the players (no one wants their part
> > to be in seven sharps, C# major:-) but aso in the way the
> > tune "sounds" Flat keys, Eb, Bb are often preferred for
> > jazz.
>
> The way you work with that is to have transposing instruments so
> music is read in one key and played in another. Transposing pianos
> were actually somewhat common in the very late nineteenth and early
> twentieth century, though it is popularly supposed Irving Berlin had
> the only one.
>
> It's also of note that Chuck Berry dimed himself out by revealing
> that his classic signature tunes were his lyrics, but the music of
> pianist Johnnie Johnson...as Keith Richards even (as ever) in a THC
> haze correctly surmmised, Eb. Bb, were piano keys,"..Johnnie's keys".
> After the two had a falling out the only new song Berry had of note
> was the novelty song, "My Ding-A-Ling". That was forty years ago.

Just heard that song as a warm-up for an improv comedy performance. A
sad end to his musical career, but Berry had farther to fall in his
personal life.

Stephen

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!

March 18th 09, 01:44 PM

On Mar 18, 8:25*am, MiNe 109 > wrote:

> The Inglenook winery building is now home to Francis Coppola. The
> Inglenook name is still out there with no connection to its former
> owners or vineyards.

Grapes from Rutherford?

Inglenook must have been good indeed.

MiNe 109

March 18th 09, 02:14 PM

In article
>,
"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote:

> On Mar 18, 8:25*am, MiNe 109 > wrote:
>
> > The Inglenook winery building is now home to Francis Coppola. The
> > Inglenook name is still out there with no connection to its former
> > owners or vineyards.
>
> Grapes from Rutherford?
>
> Inglenook must have been good indeed.

Back in the day, yes.

Stephen

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!

March 18th 09, 03:57 PM

On Mar 18, 5:12*am, "Iain Churches" > wrote:

> If you don't have it already there is a fascinating album called
> "Supersax plays Bird" which dates from, 1972. I have it on
> both vinyl and CD. *The latter is impeccably mastered.
> Supersax was a band formed by Med Flory who transcribed
> note for note some of Bird's solo, and arranged them for a whole
> saxophone section - five players in a big band.
> It's a brilliant CD - highly recommended

I have that on Mobile Fidelity LP. It is a good one.

roughplanet[_2_]

March 19th 09, 03:01 AM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
...

"roughplanet" > wrote in message
...

"Mark Harriss" > wrote in message
. au...

TT wrote:

>>>>> especially if some fine reds and few ports are consumed. Then the
>>>>> reminiscing becomes embellishing ;-)

>>>> Heh, why else is it called "A Rosy Glow"?

>>> Or a "Blue glow" from a tube amp playing Duke Ellington:-)

>> Now you're talking. I spent a marvellous evening last night playing a few
>> albums of Charlie Parker (I am a VERY big fan - more than 50 LP's & the
>> same number of CD's).

> Hi Ruff.
>
> Nice to see you posting here agan. Where have you been?

I gave this group a rest when the RAO circus was in town .

> Yes, even after 54 years, Bird is still the main man. An incredibly
> agile and fluid player with a fantastic technique and sense of melody.
> There are some wonderful quotes attributed to him:
>
> "You've got to learn your instrument. Then, you practice, practice,
> practice. And then, when you finally get up there on the bandstand,
> forget all that and just wail."
>
> My favourite Bird title is "Koko" (which funnily eough means "whole" or
> "complete" in Finnish.)
>
> If you don't have it already there is a fascinating album called
> "Supersax plays Bird" which dates from, 1972. I have it on
> both vinyl and CD. The latter is impeccably mastered.
> Supersax was a band formed by Med Flory who transcribed
> note for note some of Bird's solo, and arranged them for a whole
> saxophone section - five players in a big band.
> It's a brilliant CD - highly recommended.

I have the LP but regretfully, don't like large groups or orchestras,
which is probably why I never warmed to Basie. Just don't dig the
often rigid arrangements which prevent many soloists from letting loose.

> Johnny Hodges was another fine alto player, as was the lesser-
> known Marshal Royal from the Count Basie Orchestra. His book
> "Jazz Survivor" makes interesting reading.

Yes, Johhny Hodges was a fine musician, but again, spent a good deal
of his time playing in orchestras. I only have a couple of his LP's where
he was playing in a quartet.

> One of my favourite alto players was Earl Bostic the pioneer R+B
> saxophonist.. He had a very distinctive "growl" tone . His version
> of Flamingo was a huge hit in the early fifties. He seems to have
> influenced many players including John Coltrane.

I confess my (partial) ignorance of Earl Bostic, again because most of his
music was in octets or nonets. I do have two of his early LP's; 'All his
Hits' & 'Earl Bostic & his Orchestra' neither of which I like much as IMO,
he seems to be an R&B/Jazz crossover with a strident & at times, overdone
beat.

> I don't know whether you have it in Oz, but in this part of the
> world Bostik is a name of a glue. A pal of mine in the UK who
> does transcriptions and remastering, was compiling an Earl Bostic
> album, and gave it the working title "Stuck on Bostic" I don't
> know if it was released under that name.

>> It was truly awsome to hear the recordings from his heyday back in the
>> late 40's & early 50's, especially one rather noisy recorded album called
>> 'Charkie Parker Live at St. Nicks'. But it didn't alter the quality of
>> his
>> playing, which was simply amazing - effortless blowing & improvisation of
>> the highest order. I was in Seventh Heaven. He truly was 'The Master' and
>> even guys like John Coltrane, Stan Getz, Sony Rollins & Sonny Stitt were
>> just wannabe's when compared to Bird.

> Now you've got me started. I have a good selection of Parker material. I
> shall dig some out later today, and have a listen:-)

>> As the song says...."Oh what a night', but alas, no port or red wine .
>> Those days are over for me, but I did manage a small tipple of JW's Blue
>> Label on ice. Ahhhhhhhh....smooth as a baby's bottom :-).

> Excellent, even without the ice:-) Are you partial to Irish whiskeys?
> Jamesons and Bushmills seem to both be highly regarded.

Yes Iain, I LOVE Irish whiskey. I have several bottles of Jamieson's 12 Year
Old, a bottle of Jamieson's Triple Distilled, a bottle of Black Bush & a
bottle of Bushmills 10 year old (now 20) Single Malt in my cocktail cabinet.
And only one of them (the 12 year old Jamiesons) has ever been opened :-(.

ruff

roughplanet[_2_]

March 19th 09, 03:12 AM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
...

> wrote in message
...

>> The chap is a musicologist and teacher (guitar)
>> We discussed amongst other things the importance of key
>> signatures not only to the players (no one wants their part
>> to be in seven sharps, C# major:-) but aso in the way the
>> tune "sounds" Flat keys, Eb, Bb are often preferred for
>> jazz.

> The way you work with that is to have transposing instruments so
> music is read in one key and played in another. Transposing pianos
> were actually somewhat common in the very late nineteenth and early
> twentieth century, though it is popularly supposed Irving Berlin had
> the only one.
>
> It's also of note that Chuck Berry dimed himself out by revealing
> that his classic signature tunes were his lyrics, but the music of
> pianist Johnnie Johnson...as Keith Richards even (as ever) in a THC
> haze correctly surmmised, Eb. Bb, were piano keys,"..Johnnie's keys".
> After the two had a falling out the only new song Berry had of note
> was the novelty song, "My Ding-A-Ling". That was forty years ago.

My proudest moment as a musician was one night at the Melbourne Town Hall
when I was called up as a replacemet for one of the booked artists who had
arrived drunk.

I had been working on a number of transpositions of classical or
semi-classical pieces from piano/orchestra to, believe it or not, 5-string
banjo. I had just about mastered several, but didn't feel confident enough
to perform them in public.

But when I got on stage, they were all that came into my head, so I
performed 'Jesu, Joy of Mans' Desiring' on the 5-string followed by 'Foggy
Mountain Breakdown'. Sure brought the house down :-).

ruff

roughplanet[_2_]

March 19th 09, 03:38 AM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
...

"roughplanet" > wrote in message

>> Iain, I have just purchased a new jazz guitar as my arthritis makes
>> playing classical guitar, with its wide neck & fingering too difficult
>> these days.

> That's what makes music such a great hobby. It is also very very
> therapeutic. What kind of music do you play, Ruff? I can manage
> only one chord on the guitar E minor. Ya can't get too far with that:-)

I used to play trad jazz (4 string banjo), modern jazz (7 string
semi-acoustic) clasical (Concert Classical nylon 6 string) blues (6 & 12
string steel stringed guitars) bluegrass (5-string banjo & lap steel) & folk
(5-string banjo & 6 & 12 string guitars). But not all at the same time :-).

>> I also managed to get a nice Laney tube amp to accompany it, and, would
>> you believe, it has the same tubes as my TT SET amp, vis 12AX7's for
>> drivers & EL84's for finals. What a coup!

> Brilliant. What make is the guitar:-)

An Electa. They have been around for many years but have really lifted their
game of late.

From the recording point of view, Guild and Martin sound very good,
but my favourite acoustic has to be the Olson, as played by James
Taylor.

I used to have both a Martin DB6 & DB12. I was doing a gig in the ACT one
evening when a young guy came up to me and offered them both to me for £500.
It turned out his father was the US Ambassador & the family was returning to
the US the following week.
Did I buy them? Does the Pope **** in the woods?

Yes of course they can! Their marketing strategy is to get cheap
goods on sale, at an irresistable price, to get them noticed, and then
by pushing up the quality, secure sales in the higher brackets.

>> The neck & fingerboard are as good as those on my old Gibson 355. I
>> really don't know how they do it, either for the price or even at all!

> Careful scrutiny:-) Chinese tube amps used to be copies of 1950s
> and 1960s American and British designs. Due to the poor (money saving)
> transformers and components generally, the level of performace and
> reliability in particular was not too good. Oddly enough, their chassis
> (which cost a lot to fabricate elsewhere, are good, that is, of course
> if you like the Chinese cosmeticstyle.
>
> Bringing budget priced tube amps onto the market was something
> of a double-edged sword. The cheap amp gave people who might
> not have otherwise bought a CJ or similar, the opportunity to get
> the "glowing musical experience" The down-side is that these cheapo
> amps were prone to failure often within weeks. This gave people
> the idea that tube amps are inherently unreliable:-(

>> This axe sounds wonderful; exactly like the guitars Jim Hall plays & I
>> bought a few books on scales; Eb, Bb, etc. together with some scores, and
>> as you suggested, hope that there's not too many of those bloody sharps
>> in
>> any of the tunes:-).

> Chords, keys and scales a fascinating and essential part of music.
> The chap with whom I shared the Merlot the other evening has a PhD
> and teaches music theory. I approach it from the other end - the
> practical side:-)
>
> E maj and A maj seem to be the favourite keys for guitarists. I used to
> play in a quartet with a guitarist who could play in any key - he used
> a capo:-)

So did I for the first few years. It sure beats the hell out of finger
strain.

ruff

roughplanet[_2_]

March 19th 09, 03:45 AM

"Mark Harriss" > wrote in message
. au...

keithr wrote:

>> Never tried Python, I make my living with C#, Delphi, a little Perl, and
>> a weird scripting language that probably not more than 20 people in the
>> world use (or want to use). They all require Windows.

> Python is a really good interpreted programming language:
> With careful design I've written image processing software with a GUI
> that was developed and tested on a Linux box, used on a Mac running OSX
> and could run on a windows PC. It ran on all three without modification.
>
> The commercial version of python is a lot faster than the free version
> which is no slouch either. Printing is still a bit of a pain though.

Yes it is Mark, but as you say, the printing commands still need work even
after 12 years of development.

>> I especially dislike C++ and Java, but I suspect that I will have to use
>> the latter at some point. I've been writing in Delphi on and off for the
>> last 14 years, but it is dying and C# is similar enough to seem familiar
>> (they were both architected by the same man)

> Python being a loosely typed language, you could consider it the
> exact opposite of Java which I despise as being the most uptight anal
> language I've ever been forced to use. It was written by control freaks
> for control freaks. I find C and C++ far easier to use than Java.

Hear bloody hear. Python is a dream language with little or no constructs to
observe.
Java was written by an anally retentive control freak for anally retentive
control freaks, and although I prefer the freedom of scripting languages,
like Python or Perl, I would rather code in C++ than Java anyday!

ruff

Jenn[_2_]

March 19th 09, 06:21 AM

In article >,
"roughplanet" > wrote:

> From the recording point of view, Guild and Martin sound very good,
> but my favourite acoustic has to be the Olson, as played by James
> Taylor.

James Olson makes fantastic instruments; among the very best that I've
heard. Of course, you pay dearly for that tone, starting at $12,500.

We truly are experiencing a "second golden age" of the guitar builder's
art. See Mike Baranik (which I play, along with the fantastic Martin
OMC-28m Laurence Juber), the late Lance McCollum, Kevin Ryan, James
Goodall, et al.

Iain Churches[_2_]

March 19th 09, 08:06 AM

"roughplanet" > wrote in message
u...
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message

Ruff wrote:
> I used to play trad jazz (4 string banjo), modern jazz (7 string
> semi-acoustic) clasical (Concert Classical nylon 6 string) blues (6 & 12
> string steel stringed guitars) bluegrass (5-string banjo & lap steel) &
> folk (5-string banjo & 6 & 12 string guitars). But not all at the same
> time :-)

Pretty versatile. One of my favourite instruments is the flat back
mandoline. One saw them quite often on pop sessions at one time.

>
>>> I also managed to get a nice Laney tube amp to accompany it, and, would
>>> you believe, it has the same tubes as my TT SET amp, vis 12AX7's for
>>> drivers & EL84's for finals. What a coup!
>
>> Brilliant. What make is the guitar:-)
>
> An Electa. They have been around for many years but have really lifted
> their game of late.

That seems to be the game plan for many makers of musical
instruments. They get in at entry level, and then start to push
up the quality to provide interemediate and professional grade
instruments. The Devil is in the detail:-)

> I used to have both a Martin DB6 & DB12. I was doing a gig in the ACT one
> evening when a young guy came up to me and offered them both to me for
> £500. It turned out his father was the US Ambassador & the family was
> returning to the US the following week.
> Did I buy them? Does the Pope **** in the woods?

Sans doubt!

There have been some pretty informative posts about guitars and tuning
on RAO (not everything there is cross posted flame!)

>> E maj and A maj seem to be the favourite keys for guitarists. I used to
>> play in a quartet with a guitarist who could play in any key - he used
>> a capo:-)
>
> So did I for the first few years. It sure beats the hell out of finger
> strain.

But then we get back to the basic argument that certain pieces only
work in certain keys.

Cheers
Iain

Iain Churches[_2_]

March 19th 09, 08:19 AM

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "roughplanet" > wrote:
>
>> From the recording point of view, Guild and Martin sound very good,
>> but my favourite acoustic has to be the Olson, as played by James
>> Taylor.
>
> James Olson makes fantastic instruments; among the very best that I've
> heard. Of course, you pay dearly for that tone, starting at $12,500.

Yes of course. It's the same with recording equipment. There
are many microphones that are Neumann look-alikes, but that is
where the similarity ends!

> We truly are experiencing a "second golden age" of the guitar builder's
> art. See Mike Baranik (which I play, along with the fantastic Martin
> OMC-28m Laurence Juber), the late Lance McCollum, Kevin Ryan, James
> Goodall, et al.

Good news. Despite the attractions of DVD and plug-
and-play entertainment it is encouraging to see so many
youngsters carrying musical instrument cases.

Iain

Iain Churches[_2_]

March 19th 09, 08:20 AM

"roughplanet" > wrote in message
u...
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message

> I gave this group a rest when the RAO circus was in town .

OK. I wondered if you had been ill.
>
> I have the LP but regretfully, don't like large groups or orchestras,
> which is probably why I never warmed to Basie. Just don't dig the
> often rigid arrangements which prevent many soloists from letting loose.

IMO both Basie and Ellington left plenty of space for the soloists.
I am fascinated by tone colour, the way the sections of the orchestra
are integrated to produce a certain sound or mood, and in big band
music, saxophone harmony, particularly five part has always interested
me enormously.

I can appreciate that, as a guitarist you might be put off by "too
many notes" A chord across a saxophone section can easily
fill three octaves. In fact they sound better that way, because the
saxophone has so many strong harmonics that chords in close
harmony can sound muddled.

> Yes, Johhny Hodges was a fine musician, but again, spent a good deal
> of his time playing in orchestras. I only have a couple of his LP's where
> he was playing in a quartet.

Yes, he spent a long time with Ellington, who wrote some fine
compositions to showcase Hodges' unique sound and style.
You probably know of Harry Carney, an alto and bartitone
player who was with Ellington from 1929 until he died. He
said "Once you have played in this band, there is nowhere
else to go"-)

>
> I confess my (partial) ignorance of Earl Bostic, again because most of his
> music was in octets or nonets. I do have two of his early LP's; 'All his
> Hits' & 'Earl Bostic & his Orchestra' neither of which I like much.

Yes.I have both those. He makes a fascinating sound. On most
of the recordings a tape delay sent to reverb is used on the saxophone.
I noticed on a couple of tracks that it was forgotten until half way
through the tune.

>as IMO,
> he seems to be an R&B/Jazz crossover with a strident & at times, overdone
> beat.

Yes he ceetainly was a crossover, and quite a pioneer at that time.
You can hear the roots of rock'n'roll saxophone in there.
>
>>Are you partial to Irish whiskeys?
>> Jamesons and Bushmills seem to both be highly regarded.
>
> Yes Iain, I LOVE Irish whiskey. I have several bottles of Jamieson's 12
> Year Old, a bottle of Jamieson's Triple Distilled, a bottle of Black Bush
> & a bottle of Bushmills 10 year old (now 20) Single Malt in my cocktail
> cabinet. And only one of them (the 12 year old Jamiesons) has ever been
> opened :-(.
>
Splendid.
Enjoy

Iain

March 19th 09, 11:02 AM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
...
>>
> Pretty versatile. One of my favourite instruments is the flat back
> mandoline. One saw them quite often on pop sessions at one time.
>

Do I detect a reference to Mike Oldfield and Tubular Bells here? ;-)

Cheers TT

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!

March 19th 09, 01:27 PM

On Mar 19, 1:21*am, Jenn > wrote:
> In article >,
>
> *"roughplanet" > wrote:
> > From the recording point of view, Guild and Martin sound very good,
> > but my favourite acoustic has to be the Olson, as played by James
> > Taylor.
>
> James Olson makes fantastic instruments; among the very best that I've
> heard. *Of course, you pay dearly for that tone, starting at $12,500.

They are made about 15 miles from me. Circles Pines is a north metro
suburb of the Twin Cities.

The first time I played one it didn't cost nearly that much. :-)

Iain Churches[_2_]

March 19th 09, 02:27 PM

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in message
...
On Mar 19, 1:21 am, Jenn > wrote:
> In article >,
>
> "roughplanet" > wrote:
> > From the recording point of view, Guild and Martin sound very good,
> > but my favourite acoustic has to be the Olson, as played by James
> > Taylor.
>
> James Olson makes fantastic instruments; among the very best that I've
> heard. Of course, you pay dearly for that tone, starting at $12,500.

>They are made about 15 miles from me. Circles Pines is a north metro
>suburb of the Twin Cities.

Have you ever had the chance to visit their workshops?
If you ever get the chance, it would be interesting to hear
about it.

>The first time I played one it didn't cost nearly that much. :-)

Shame you didn't buy half a dozen:-) Or did you? :-)

This thread is quite unique in that most good threads
are quickly highjacked, and turn from interesting topics
into a chimp fight.

This thread, started as a chimp fight, been
high-jacked and turned into an interesting topic:-)

Iain

Jenn[_2_]

March 19th 09, 02:40 PM

In article >,
"Iain Churches" > wrote:

> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in message
> ...
> On Mar 19, 1:21 am, Jenn > wrote:
> > In article >,
> >
> > "roughplanet" > wrote:
> > > From the recording point of view, Guild and Martin sound very good,
> > > but my favourite acoustic has to be the Olson, as played by James
> > > Taylor.
> >
> > James Olson makes fantastic instruments; among the very best that I've
> > heard. Of course, you pay dearly for that tone, starting at $12,500.
>
> >They are made about 15 miles from me. Circles Pines is a north metro
> >suburb of the Twin Cities.
>
> Have you ever had the chance to visit their workshops?
> If you ever get the chance, it would be interesting to hear
> about it.

For sure. They really are fantastic instruments. For a solo player who
plays Olson, see the great Al Petteway.

The only Olson that I've played was of one of my favorite combinations:
cedar and rosewood. My two favorite top woods are cedar and adirondack
spruce.

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!

March 19th 09, 03:05 PM

On Mar 19, 9:27*am, "Iain Churches" > wrote:
> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in ...
> On Mar 19, 1:21 am, Jenn > wrote:
>
> > In article >,
>
> > "roughplanet" > wrote:
> > > From the recording point of view, Guild and Martin sound very good,
> > > but my favourite acoustic has to be the Olson, as played by James
> > > Taylor.
>
> > James Olson makes fantastic instruments; among the very best that I've
> > heard. Of course, you pay dearly for that tone, starting at $12,500.
> >They are made about 15 miles from me. Circles Pines is a north metro
> >suburb of the Twin Cities.
>
> Have you ever had the chance to visit their workshops?

No, unfortunately. Maybe I can make a run up there one of these days.

> If you ever get the chance, it would be interesting to hear
> about it.

If I do I'll let you know.

> >The first time I played one it didn't cost nearly that much. :-)
>
> Shame you didn't buy half a dozen:-) *Or did you? :-)

People who live in Rome probably don't visit the Forum very often
either. :-(

I used to see them in local shops for reasonable money, but they were
still in the Taylor/Martin range.

> This thread is quite unique in that most good threads
> are quickly highjacked, and turn from interesting topics
> into a chimp fight.
>
> This thread, started as a chimp fight, been
> high-jacked and turned into an interesting topic:-)

The law of averages says that has to happen once in a while. :-)

Iain Churches[_2_]

March 19th 09, 03:22 PM

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>
>> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in
>> message
>> ...
>> On Mar 19, 1:21 am, Jenn > wrote:
>> > In article >,
>> >
>> > "roughplanet" > wrote:
>> > > From the recording point of view, Guild and Martin sound very good,
>> > > but my favourite acoustic has to be the Olson, as played by James
>> > > Taylor.
>> >
>> > James Olson makes fantastic instruments; among the very best that I've
>> > heard. Of course, you pay dearly for that tone, starting at $12,500.
>>
>> >They are made about 15 miles from me. Circles Pines is a north metro
>> >suburb of the Twin Cities.
>>
>> Have you ever had the chance to visit their workshops?
>> If you ever get the chance, it would be interesting to hear
>> about it.
>
> For sure. They really are fantastic instruments. For a solo player who
> plays Olson, see the great Al Petteway.
>
> The only Olson that I've played was of one of my favorite combinations:
> cedar and rosewood. My two favorite top woods are cedar and adirondack
> spruce.

Jenn. The subject of tuning, which we have touched on briefly is
a fascinating one, as it affects so much the way the instrument
sounds,. and I feel this is probably something about which
those of us who do not play guitar are not very aware.

Could youi possibly give us some pointers on this topic,
preferably in a new thread, cross-posted as this one
is between RAO ad the Oz group.

TIA

Iain

calvin coolidge

March 19th 09, 03:31 PM

On Mar 18, 11:21ï¿½pm, Jenn > wrote:
> In article >,
>
> ï¿½"roughplanet" > wrote:
> > From the recording point of view, Guild and Martin sound very good,
> > but my favourite acoustic has to be the Olson, as played by James
> > Taylor.
>
> James Olson makes fantastic instruments; among the very best that I've
> heard. ï¿½Of course, you pay dearly for that tone, starting at $12,500.
>
> We truly are experiencing a "second golden age" of the guitar builder's
> art. See Mike Baranik (which I play, along with the fantastic Martin
> OMC-28m Laurence Juber), the late Lance McCollum, Kevin Ryan, James
> Goodall, et al.

My brother has a Goodall. It's a fantastic instrument, a work of art.

Jenn[_2_]

March 19th 09, 03:33 PM

In article >,
"Iain Churches" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Iain Churches" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in
> >> message
> >> ...
> >> On Mar 19, 1:21 am, Jenn > wrote:
> >> > In article >,
> >> >
> >> > "roughplanet" > wrote:
> >> > > From the recording point of view, Guild and Martin sound very good,
> >> > > but my favourite acoustic has to be the Olson, as played by James
> >> > > Taylor.
> >> >
> >> > James Olson makes fantastic instruments; among the very best that I've
> >> > heard. Of course, you pay dearly for that tone, starting at $12,500.
> >>
> >> >They are made about 15 miles from me. Circles Pines is a north metro
> >> >suburb of the Twin Cities.
> >>
> >> Have you ever had the chance to visit their workshops?
> >> If you ever get the chance, it would be interesting to hear
> >> about it.
> >
> > For sure. They really are fantastic instruments. For a solo player who
> > plays Olson, see the great Al Petteway.
> >
> > The only Olson that I've played was of one of my favorite combinations:
> > cedar and rosewood. My two favorite top woods are cedar and adirondack
> > spruce.
>
>
>
>
> Jenn. The subject of tuning, which we have touched on briefly is
> a fascinating one, as it affects so much the way the instrument
> sounds,. and I feel this is probably something about which
> those of us who do not play guitar are not very aware.
>
> Could youi possibly give us some pointers on this topic,
> preferably in a new thread, cross-posted as this one
> is between RAO ad the Oz group.
>
> TIA
>
> Iain

Sure... You mean "alternate tunings" like DADGAD, etc, right?

calvin coolidge

March 19th 09, 03:36 PM

On Mar 19, 8:22ï¿½am, "Iain Churches" > wrote:
> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> ....
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article >,
> > "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>
> >> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in
> >> message
> ....
> >> On Mar 19, 1:21 am, Jenn > wrote:
> >> > In article >,
>
> >> > "roughplanet" > wrote:
> >> > > From the recording point of view, Guild and Martin sound very good,
> >> > > but my favourite acoustic has to be the Olson, as played by James
> >> > > Taylor.
>
> >> > James Olson makes fantastic instruments; among the very best that I've
> >> > heard. Of course, you pay dearly for that tone, starting at $12,500.
>
> >> >They are made about 15 miles from me. Circles Pines is a north metro
> >> >suburb of the Twin Cities.
>
> >> Have you ever had the chance to visit their workshops?
> >> If you ever get the chance, it would be interesting to hear
> >> about it.
>
> > For sure. ï¿½They really are fantastic instruments. ï¿½For a solo player who
> > plays Olson, see the great Al Petteway.
>
> > The only Olson that I've played was of one of my favorite combinations:
> > cedar and rosewood. ï¿½My two favorite top woods are cedar and adirondack
> > spruce.
>
> Jenn. The subject of tuning, which we have touched on briefly is
> a fascinating one, as it affects so much the way the instrument
> sounds,. and I feel this is probably something about which
> those of us who do not play guitar are not very aware.
>
> Could youi possibly give us some pointers on this topic,
> preferably in a new thread, cross-posted as this one
> is between RAO ad the Oz group.

I'm seeing more and more guitarists using special tunings these days.
I recently saw the Fleet Foxes and Robin Pecknold had to retune
between nearly every song. I think it really opens up the
possibilities when it comes to creating new and unique sounds.

Jenn[_2_]

March 19th 09, 03:36 PM

In article
>,
calvin coolidge > wrote:

> On Mar 18, 11:21?pm, Jenn > wrote:
> > In article >,
> >
> > ?"roughplanet" > wrote:
> > > From the recording point of view, Guild and Martin sound very good,
> > > but my favourite acoustic has to be the Olson, as played by James
> > > Taylor.
> >
> > James Olson makes fantastic instruments; among the very best that I've
> > heard. ?Of course, you pay dearly for that tone, starting at $12,500.
> >
> > We truly are experiencing a "second golden age" of the guitar builder's
> > art. See Mike Baranik (which I play, along with the fantastic Martin
> > OMC-28m Laurence Juber), the late Lance McCollum, Kevin Ryan, James
> > Goodall, et al.
>
> My brother has a Goodall. It's a fantastic instrument, a work of art.

Yep, fine instruments.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdYIkPlYjhY&feature=PlayList&p=E41C7DB1089
26BDF&index=0&playnext=1

Iain Churches[_2_]

March 19th 09, 03:48 PM

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...

> Sure... You mean "alternate tunings" like DADGAD, etc, right?

Yes, and explain the terminology too, "open G" etc, and why
and when they are preferred so that the keyboard and
horn-playing Philistines among us can understand:-)

Iain

Iain Churches[_2_]

March 19th 09, 03:50 PM

"calvin coolidge" > wrote in message
...

>I'm seeing more and more guitarists using special tunings these days.
>I recently saw the Fleet Foxes and Robin Pecknold had to retune
>between nearly every song. I think it really opens up the
>possibilities when it comes to creating new and unique sounds.

As a recording engineer, this interest me.
Jenn has promised a thread. Your input
appreciated.

Iain

calvin coolidge

March 19th 09, 04:39 PM

On Mar 19, 8:50ï¿½am, "Iain Churches" > wrote:
> "calvin coolidge" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> >I'm seeing more and more guitarists using special tunings these days.
> >I recently saw the Fleet Foxes and Robin Pecknold had to retune
> >between nearly every song. I think it really opens up the
> >possibilities when it comes to creating new and unique sounds.
>
> As a recording engineer, this interest me.
> Jenn has promised a thread. Your input
> appreciated.
>
> Iain

I am an intermediate player at best, and I am starting to investigate
these tunings in order to expand my "repertoire." I think we can both
sit at Jenn's feet and learn.

George M. Middius[_4_]

March 19th 09, 05:31 PM

Iain Churches said:

> highjacked
> high-jacked

It's "hijacked". No hyphen, no "-gh". The word is not descended from any
relative of "high".

Iain Churches[_2_]

March 19th 09, 06:49 PM

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Iain Churches said:
>
>> highjacked
>> high-jacked
>
> It's "hijacked". No hyphen, no "-gh". The word is not descended from any
> relative of "high".
>
Thank you George. English is no longer my first language.
Your tolerance is appreciated.

Iain

MiNe 109

March 19th 09, 07:36 PM

In article
>,
calvin coolidge > wrote:

> On Mar 19, 8:22?am, "Iain Churches" > wrote:
> > "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >
> > ...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > In article >,
> > > "Iain Churches" > wrote:
> >
> > >> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in
> > >> message
> > ...
> > >> On Mar 19, 1:21 am, Jenn > wrote:
> > >> > In article >,
> >
> > >> > "roughplanet" > wrote:
> > >> > > From the recording point of view, Guild and Martin sound very good,
> > >> > > but my favourite acoustic has to be the Olson, as played by James
> > >> > > Taylor.
> >
> > >> > James Olson makes fantastic instruments; among the very best that I've
> > >> > heard. Of course, you pay dearly for that tone, starting at $12,500.
> >
> > >> >They are made about 15 miles from me. Circles Pines is a north metro
> > >> >suburb of the Twin Cities.
> >
> > >> Have you ever had the chance to visit their workshops?
> > >> If you ever get the chance, it would be interesting to hear
> > >> about it.
> >
> > > For sure. ?They really are fantastic instruments. ?For a solo player who
> > > plays Olson, see the great Al Petteway.
> >
> > > The only Olson that I've played was of one of my favorite combinations:
> > > cedar and rosewood. ?My two favorite top woods are cedar and adirondack
> > > spruce.
> >
> > Jenn. The subject of tuning, which we have touched on briefly is
> > a fascinating one, as it affects so much the way the instrument
> > sounds,. and I feel this is probably something about which
> > those of us who do not play guitar are not very aware.
> >
> > Could youi possibly give us some pointers on this topic,
> > preferably in a new thread, cross-posted as this one
> > is between RAO ad the Oz group.
>
> I'm seeing more and more guitarists using special tunings these days.
> I recently saw the Fleet Foxes and Robin Pecknold had to retune
> between nearly every song. I think it really opens up the
> possibilities when it comes to creating new and unique sounds.

And there are older artists who led the way, such as Joni Mitchell. I
just found this:

http://jmdl.com/howard/music/joni_notation.html

Stephen

MiNe 109

March 19th 09, 07:39 PM

In article >,
George M. Middius > wrote:

> Iain Churches said:
>
> > highjacked
> > high-jacked
>
> It's "hijacked". No hyphen, no "-gh". The word is not descended from any
> relative of "high".

Except for "highway".

Stephen

George M. Middius[_4_]

March 19th 09, 08:01 PM

MiNe 109 said:

> > > highjacked
> > > high-jacked
> >
> > It's "hijacked". No hyphen, no "-gh". The word is not descended from any
> > relative of "high".
>
> Except for "highway".

I didn't realize that, but it's a logical assumption.

hijack
noun
1. seizure of a vehicle in transit either to rob it or divert it to an
alternate destination
verb
1. take arbitrarily or by force
"The Cubans commandeered the plane and flew it to Miami"
2. seize control of
"they hijacked the judicial process"

Highjack is also recognized as a variant. Oh well.

[email protected]

March 19th 09, 09:25 PM

On 19 Mar, 10:27, "Iain Churches" > wrote:

>
> This thread is quite unique in that most good threads
> are quickly highjacked, and turn from interesting topics
> into a chimp fight.
>
> This thread, started as a chimp fight, been
> high-jacked and turned into an interesting topic:-)
>
> Iain

"at least" until Arny reads a two minute primer on guitars,
and casts himelf as an expert, saying that no one needs anything more
than a $250 Ibanez

roughplanet[_2_]

March 19th 09, 11:39 PM

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...

In article >,
"Iain Churches" > wrote:

>> >> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in
>> >> message
>> >> ...
>> >> On Mar 19, 1:21 am, Jenn > wrote:

>> >> > In article >,
>> >> >
>> >> > "roughplanet" > wrote:
>> >> > > From the recording point of view, Guild and Martin sound very
>> >> > > good,
>> >> > > but my favourite acoustic has to be the Olson, as played by James
>> >> > > Taylor.

>> >> > James Olson makes fantastic instruments; among the very best that
>> >> > I've
>> >> > heard. Of course, you pay dearly for that tone, starting at $12,500.

>> >> >They are made about 15 miles from me. Circles Pines is a north metro
>> >> >suburb of the Twin Cities.

>> >> Have you ever had the chance to visit their workshops?
>> >> If you ever get the chance, it would be interesting to hear
>> >> about it.

>> > For sure. They really are fantastic instruments. For a solo player
>> > who
>> > plays Olson, see the great Al Petteway.

>> > The only Olson that I've played was of one of my favorite combinations:
>> > cedar and rosewood. My two favorite top woods are cedar and adirondack
>> > spruce.

>> Jenn. The subject of tuning, which we have touched on briefly is
>> a fascinating one, as it affects so much the way the instrument
>> sounds,. and I feel this is probably something about which
>> those of us who do not play guitar are not very aware.
>>
>> Could youi possibly give us some pointers on this topic,
>> preferably in a new thread, cross-posted as this one
>> is between RAO ad the Oz group.

> Sure... You mean "alternate tunings" like DADGAD, etc, right?

Open tunings are pretty interesting, especially if your a picker, although
when I played a 7 string 'George Golla' Maton you could tune it to almost
any key, sharp, flat, major or minor.
Geez I wish I hadn't sold it. I'm not sure Maton still make them anymore.
George played with Don Burrows for over 40 years & was my inspiration when I
was learning. I used to go to his Master Classes & came away inspired every
time.

I am going to see Bill Frisell on May 1 this year at the Melbourne Jazz
Festival & I'm enrolled in his Master Class later in the program. As I have
over 20 of his albums, and just love his eclectic mix of jazz improvisation,
folk & Americana, this is the highlight of my year & probably the decade. A
Bill Frisell Master Class.....WOW!!!

ruff

roughplanet[_2_]

March 20th 09, 12:08 AM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Sure... You mean "alternate tunings" like DADGAD, etc, right?
>
> Yes, and explain the terminology too, "open G" etc, and why
> and when they are preferred so that the keyboard and
> horn-playing Philistines among us can understand:-)

Here are some of the tunings I use, but by no means all of them.....

CGDGCD (A good tuning for bluegrass & 'mountain; (Ozark) music)
DGDGBD (Open G)
DGDGA#D (Open G minor)
DGCFAD (Ben Harper's Tuning - I like this one a lot)
BADDAD (John Renbourne's tuning)
BAGDAD (No, not an Iraqi tuning, just another of John Renbourne's)
CADFAD (Open D minor tuning - great for English/Irish/Scottish Ballads a la
Pentangle)
DADGBE (There are many 'dropped D' tunings for everything from Celtic music
to Jazz)

There are dozens more but you can't learn them all :-).

ruff

roughplanet[_2_]

March 20th 09, 12:20 AM

"MiNe 109" > wrote in message
...

In article
>,
calvin coolidge > wrote:

On Mar 19, 8:22?am, "Iain Churches" > wrote:

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in
message
...

"roughplanet" > wrote:
>> > >> > > From the recording point of view, Guild and Martin sound very
>> > >> > > good,
>> > >> > > but my favourite acoustic has to be the Olson, as played by
>> > >> > > James
>> > >> > > Taylor.

>> > >> > James Olson makes fantastic instruments; among the very best that
>> > >> > I've
>> > >> > heard. Of course, you pay dearly for that tone, starting at
>> > >> > $12,500.
>> > >> >They are made about 15 miles from me. Circles Pines is a north
>> > >> >metro
>> > >> >suburb of the Twin Cities.

>> > >> Have you ever had the chance to visit their workshops?
>> > >> If you ever get the chance, it would be interesting to hear
>> > >> about it.

>> > > For sure. ?They really are fantastic instruments. ?For a solo player
>> > > who
>> > > plays Olson, see the great Al Petteway.

>> > > The only Olson that I've played was of one of my favorite
>> > > combinations:
>> > > cedar and rosewood. ?My two favorite top woods are cedar and
>> > > adirondack
>> > > spruce.

>> > Jenn. The subject of tuning, which we have touched on briefly is
>> > a fascinating one, as it affects so much the way the instrument
>> > sounds,. and I feel this is probably something about which
>> > those of us who do not play guitar are not very aware.
>> >
>> > Could youi possibly give us some pointers on this topic,
>> > preferably in a new thread, cross-posted as this one
>> > is between RAO ad the Oz group.

>> I'm seeing more and more guitarists using special tunings these days.
>> I recently saw the Fleet Foxes and Robin Pecknold had to retune
>> between nearly every song. I think it really opens up the
>> possibilities when it comes to creating new and unique sounds.

> And there are older artists who led the way, such as Joni Mitchell. I
> just found this:
>
> http://jmdl.com/howard/music/joni_notation.html
>
> Stephen

Back in the eary 60's I had a folk lounge in a loft in Melbourne and artists
from the US would sometimes call in after their show. They included Sonny
Terry & Brownie McGhee, Josh White, and my then hero, Pete Seeger. That
night we both jammed for nearly 3 hours (much to the delight of the patrons)
but I could never get my banjo to 'sound right'

That was my introduction to open tunings, from the master himself. After
that I used them gratuitously on both the banjo & guitar. What a revelation.
Double thumbing whilst your frailing in open D. WOW!!!

ruff

March 20th 09, 12:43 AM

> wrote in message
...
> On 19 Mar, 10:27, "Iain Churches" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> This thread is quite unique in that most good threads
>> are quickly highjacked, and turn from interesting topics
>> into a chimp fight.
>>
>> This thread, started as a chimp fight, been
>> high-jacked and turned into an interesting topic:-)
>>
>> Iain
>
> "at least" until Arny reads a two minute primer on
> guitars,
> and casts himelf as an expert, saying that no one needs
> anything more
> than a $250 Ibanez

Don't you mean he will say all you need is your Guitar Hero
game and your PS3. It's all digital so it has to be better
;-)

Cheers TT

MiNe 109

March 20th 09, 12:56 AM

In article >,
"roughplanet" > wrote:

> Back in the eary 60's I had a folk lounge in a loft in Melbourne and artists
> from the US would sometimes call in after their show. They included Sonny
> Terry & Brownie McGhee, Josh White, and my then hero, Pete Seeger. That
> night we both jammed for nearly 3 hours (much to the delight of the patrons)
> but I could never get my banjo to 'sound right'
>
> That was my introduction to open tunings, from the master himself. After
> that I used them gratuitously on both the banjo & guitar. What a revelation.
> Double thumbing whilst your frailing in open D. WOW!!!

Indeed! There seems to be a bigger Australian and Irish presence this
year at SXSW, but I'll miss most all of it except what I can hear on the
radio.

Stephen

Jenn[_2_]

March 20th 09, 01:17 AM

In article >,
"roughplanet" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> In article >,
> "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>
> >> >> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in
> >> >> message
> >> >> ..
> >> >> .
> >> >> On Mar 19, 1:21 am, Jenn > wrote:
>
> >> >> > In article >,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "roughplanet" > wrote:
> >> >> > > From the recording point of view, Guild and Martin sound very
> >> >> > > good,
> >> >> > > but my favourite acoustic has to be the Olson, as played by James
> >> >> > > Taylor.
>
> >> >> > James Olson makes fantastic instruments; among the very best that
> >> >> > I've
> >> >> > heard. Of course, you pay dearly for that tone, starting at $12,500.
>
> >> >> >They are made about 15 miles from me. Circles Pines is a north metro
> >> >> >suburb of the Twin Cities.
>
> >> >> Have you ever had the chance to visit their workshops?
> >> >> If you ever get the chance, it would be interesting to hear
> >> >> about it.
>
> >> > For sure. They really are fantastic instruments. For a solo player
> >> > who
> >> > plays Olson, see the great Al Petteway.
>
> >> > The only Olson that I've played was of one of my favorite combinations:
> >> > cedar and rosewood. My two favorite top woods are cedar and adirondack
> >> > spruce.
>
> >> Jenn. The subject of tuning, which we have touched on briefly is
> >> a fascinating one, as it affects so much the way the instrument
> >> sounds,. and I feel this is probably something about which
> >> those of us who do not play guitar are not very aware.
> >>
> >> Could youi possibly give us some pointers on this topic,
> >> preferably in a new thread, cross-posted as this one
> >> is between RAO ad the Oz group.
>
> > Sure... You mean "alternate tunings" like DADGAD, etc, right?
>
> Open tunings are pretty interesting, especially if your a picker, although
> when I played a 7 string 'George Golla' Maton you could tune it to almost
> any key, sharp, flat, major or minor.
> Geez I wish I hadn't sold it. I'm not sure Maton still make them anymore.
> George played with Don Burrows for over 40 years & was my inspiration when I
> was learning. I used to go to his Master Classes & came away inspired every
> time.
>
> I am going to see Bill Frisell on May 1 this year at the Melbourne Jazz
> Festival & I'm enrolled in his Master Class later in the program. As I have
> over 20 of his albums, and just love his eclectic mix of jazz improvisation,
> folk & Americana, this is the highlight of my year & probably the decade. A
> Bill Frisell Master Class.....WOW!!!
>
> ruff

Very cool! Enjoy. He was at our college 2 years ago as the featured
artist at our jazz festival. What a player!

roughplanet[_2_]

March 20th 09, 03:49 AM

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...

In article >,
"roughplanet" > wrote:

In article >,
"Iain Churches" > wrote:

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in message
..

>> >> >> > > From the recording point of view, Guild and Martin sound very
>> >> >> > > good, but my favourite acoustic has to be the Olson, as played
>> >> >> > > by
>> >> >> > > James Taylor.

>> >> >> > James Olson makes fantastic instruments; among the very best that
>> >> >> > I've heard. Of course, you pay dearly for that tone, starting at
>> >> >> > $12,500.

>> >> >> >They are made about 15 miles from me. Circles Pines is a north
>> >> >> >metro
>> >> >> >suburb of the Twin Cities.

>> >> >> Have you ever had the chance to visit their workshops?
>> >> >> If you ever get the chance, it would be interesting to hear
>> >> >> about it.

>> >> > For sure. They really are fantastic instruments. For a solo player
>> >> > who plays Olson, see the great Al Petteway.

>> >> > The only Olson that I've played was of one of my favorite
>> >> > combinations:
>> >> > cedar and rosewood. My two favorite top woods are cedar and
>> >> > adirondack
>> >> > spruce.

>> >> Jenn. The subject of tuning, which we have touched on briefly is
>> >> a fascinating one, as it affects so much the way the instrument
>> >> sounds,. and I feel this is probably something about which
>> >> those of us who do not play guitar are not very aware.
>> >>
>> >> Could youi possibly give us some pointers on this topic,
>> >> preferably in a new thread, cross-posted as this one
>> >> is between RAO ad the Oz group.

>> > Sure... You mean "alternate tunings" like DADGAD, etc, right?

>> Open tunings are pretty interesting, especially if your a picker,
>> although
>> when I played a 7 string 'George Golla' Maton you could tune it to almost
>> any key, sharp, flat, major or minor.
>> Geez I wish I hadn't sold it. I'm not sure Maton still make them anymore.
>> George played with Don Burrows for over 40 years & was my inspiration
>> when I
>> was learning. I used to go to his Master Classes & came away inspired
>> every
>> time.
>>
>> I am going to see Bill Frisell on May 1 this year at the Melbourne Jazz
>> Festival & I'm enrolled in his Master Class later in the program. As I
>> have
>> over 20 of his albums, and just love his eclectic mix of jazz
>> improvisation,
>> folk & Americana, this is the highlight of my year & probably the decade.
>> A
>> Bill Frisell Master Class.....WOW!!!

> Very cool! Enjoy. He was at our college 2 years ago as the featured
> artist at our jazz festival. What a player!

Hi Jenn. Yes, he's the bees knees along with Jim Hall. Have you heard the
album the duo put out recently? It's called 'Hemispheres' and is a double
album, the first CD with just Bill & Jim, and the second, a quartet with
Scott Colley & Joey Barron.
I really can't recommend it too highly, especially as Jim is now 78 and
looks older, and probably won't be around for too much much longer.He lives
in New York these days, and still manages at least one gig a week His album
'All Across the City' is one of my all-time favourites.

ruff

roughplanet[_2_]

March 20th 09, 03:52 AM

> wrote in message
...

On 19 Mar, 10:27, "Iain Churches" > wrote:

>> This thread is quite unique in that most good threads
>> are quickly highjacked, and turn from interesting topics
>> into a chimp fight.
>>
>> This thread, started as a chimp fight, been
>> high-jacked and turned into an interesting topic:-)
>>
>> Iain

> "at least" until Arny reads a two minute primer on guitars,
> and casts himelf as an expert, saying that no one needs anything more
> than a $250 Ibanez.

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!! Struth Clyde, you really know Arnie well, don't you :-)?

ruff

Iain Churches[_2_]

March 20th 09, 06:42 AM

> > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 19 Mar, 10:27, "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>>
>>> This thread is quite unique in that most good threads
>>> are quickly highjacked, and turn from interesting topics
>>> into a chimp fight.
>>>
>>> This thread, started as a chimp fight, been
>>> high-jacked and turned into an interesting topic:-)
>>>

>> "at least" until Arny reads a two minute primer on guitars,
>> and casts himelf as an expert, saying that no one needs anything more
>> than a $250 Ibanez
>

Does it have to be *so* expensive? After all, it's only
music:-))) LOL.

Incidentally, I am told that tha Arny has his own tuning for
guitar. It is: ABXABX, where the fourth and fifth strings
are tuned as an octave of the first and second, and the
third and sixth string (X) can be tuned arbitrarily (by an
impartial person in another room) Subsequent tests have
proved than no-one can hear the difference between
Arny's playing and that of Laurence Juber.

Music is fun. Innit :-)

Iain

Iain Churches[_2_]

March 20th 09, 06:49 AM

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> MiNe 109 said:
>
>> > > highjacked
>> > > high-jacked
>> >
>> > It's "hijacked". No hyphen, no "-gh". The word is not descended from
>> > any
>> > relative of "high".
>>
>> Except for "highway".
>
> I didn't realize that, but it's a logical assumption.
>
> hijack
> noun
> 1. seizure of a vehicle in transit either to rob it or divert it to an
> alternate destination
> verb
> 1. take arbitrarily or by force
> "The Cubans commandeered the plane and flew it to Miami"
> 2. seize control of
> "they hijacked the judicial process"
>
>
> Highjack is also recognized as a variant. Oh well.
>

Not intended as an excuse, but, my computer
runs XP Scandi with a Finnish/Swedish/Norwegian
keyboard.

For some obscure reason, known only to Mr Gates
and Co, despite having reset the default a million
times, OE insists on running the spelling check in
Danish, so I don't use it.

Despite this, I can still manage to spell "ophicleide"
and "sarusaphone" probably because I use them
much more often than "hijack":-)

Just for fun, I wrote hijack, highjack and high-jack
on my wife's (Scandi) Mac. All were accepted by
the spelling checker.

Your attention to detail is commendable.
It would be interesting also to hear your views on the
contents of the thread.

Iain

Iain Churches[_2_]

March 20th 09, 06:51 AM

"calvin coolidge" > wrote in message
...
On Mar 19, 8:50?am, "Iain Churches" > wrote:
> "calvin coolidge" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>> >I'm seeing more and more guitarists using special tunings these days.
>> >I recently saw the Fleet Foxes and Robin Pecknold had to retune
>>> >between nearly every song. I think it really opens up the
>> >possibilities when it comes to creating new and unique sounds.
>>
>> As a recording engineer, this interest me.
>> Jenn has promised a thread. Your input
>> appreciated.
>>

>I am an intermediate player at best, and I am starting to investigate
>these tunings in order to expand my "repertoire." I think we can both
>sit at Jenn's feet and learn.

Jenn has posted the opening to the thread.
I became attracted to these alternative tunings when
listening to the music of James Taylor. It was not
obvcious to me what was different, until it was pointed
out by a guitar player.

Iain

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!

March 20th 09, 06:53 AM

On Mar 20, 1:42*am, "Iain Churches" > wrote:
> > > wrote in message

> >> "at least" until Arny reads a two minute primer on guitars,
> >> and casts himelf as an expert, saying that no one needs anything more
> >> than a $250 Ibanez
>
> Does it have to be *so* expensive? *After all, it's only
> music:-))) *LOL.
>
> Incidentally, I am told that tha Arny has his own tuning for
> guitar. *It is: ABXABX, where the fourth and fifth strings
> are tuned as an octave of the first and second, and the
> third and sixth string (X) can be tuned arbitrarily (by an
> impartial person in another room) *Subsequent tests have
> proved than no-one can hear the difference between
> Arny's playing and that of Laurence Juber.

And GOIA *never* plays too many notes. It's always *just right*.

> Music is fun. Innit *:-)

It is until GOIA shows up. Then the life somehow gets sucked out of
it, dunnit. :-)

Iain Churches[_2_]

March 20th 09, 07:20 AM

"roughplanet" > wrote in message
u...
>
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> Sure... You mean "alternate tunings" like DADGAD, etc, right?
>>
>> Yes, and explain the terminology too, "open G" etc, and why
>> and when they are preferred so that the keyboard and
>> horn-playing Philistines among us can understand:-)
>
> Here are some of the tunings I use, but by no means all of them.....
>
> CGDGCD (A good tuning for bluegrass & 'mountain; (Ozark) music)
> DGDGBD (Open G)
> DGDGA#D (Open G minor)
> DGCFAD (Ben Harper's Tuning - I like this one a lot)
> BADDAD (John Renbourne's tuning)
> BAGDAD (No, not an Iraqi tuning, just another of John Renbourne's)
> CADFAD (Open D minor tuning - great for English/Irish/Scottish Ballads a
> la Pentangle)
> DADGBE (There are many 'dropped D' tunings for everything from Celtic
> music to Jazz)
>
> There are dozens more but you can't learn them all :-).
>

Ruff, as this thread is a long one, and Jenn has started a new
thread on the subject of tuning, I have taken the liberty of
copying your post above to that thread. Hope you don't
mind:-)

Iain

Arny Krueger

March 20th 09, 09:47 AM

> wrote in message

> On 19 Mar, 10:27, "Iain Churches" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> This thread is quite unique in that most good threads
>> are quickly highjacked, and turn from interesting topics
>> into a chimp fight.
>>
>> This thread, started as a chimp fight, been
>> high-jacked and turned into an interesting topic:-)
>>
>> Iain
>
> "at least" until Arny reads a two minute primer on
> guitars,
> and casts himelf as an expert, saying that no one needs
> anything more than a $250 Ibanez

I win again!

George M. Middius[_4_]

March 20th 09, 01:09 PM

Iain Churches said:

> Just for fun, I wrote hijack, highjack and high-jack
> on my wife's (Scandi) Mac. All were accepted by
> the spelling checker.
>
> Your attention to detail is commendable.
> It would be interesting also to hear your views on the
> contents of the thread.

If you check back, I was the OP in this thread.

Jenn[_2_]

March 20th 09, 02:53 PM

In article >,
"roughplanet" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> In article >,
> "roughplanet" > wrote:
>
> In article >,
> "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>
> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in message
> ..
>
> >> >> >> > > From the recording point of view, Guild and Martin sound very
> >> >> >> > > good, but my favourite acoustic has to be the Olson, as played
> >> >> >> > > by
> >> >> >> > > James Taylor.
>
> >> >> >> > James Olson makes fantastic instruments; among the very best that
> >> >> >> > I've heard. Of course, you pay dearly for that tone, starting at
> >> >> >> > $12,500.
>
> >> >> >> >They are made about 15 miles from me. Circles Pines is a north
> >> >> >> >metro
> >> >> >> >suburb of the Twin Cities.
>
> >> >> >> Have you ever had the chance to visit their workshops?
> >> >> >> If you ever get the chance, it would be interesting to hear
> >> >> >> about it.
>
> >> >> > For sure. They really are fantastic instruments. For a solo player
> >> >> > who plays Olson, see the great Al Petteway.
>
> >> >> > The only Olson that I've played was of one of my favorite
> >> >> > combinations:
> >> >> > cedar and rosewood. My two favorite top woods are cedar and
> >> >> > adirondack
> >> >> > spruce.
>
> >> >> Jenn. The subject of tuning, which we have touched on briefly is
> >> >> a fascinating one, as it affects so much the way the instrument
> >> >> sounds,. and I feel this is probably something about which
> >> >> those of us who do not play guitar are not very aware.
> >> >>
> >> >> Could youi possibly give us some pointers on this topic,
> >> >> preferably in a new thread, cross-posted as this one
> >> >> is between RAO ad the Oz group.
>
> >> > Sure... You mean "alternate tunings" like DADGAD, etc, right?
>
> >> Open tunings are pretty interesting, especially if your a picker,
> >> although
> >> when I played a 7 string 'George Golla' Maton you could tune it to almost
> >> any key, sharp, flat, major or minor.
> >> Geez I wish I hadn't sold it. I'm not sure Maton still make them anymore.
> >> George played with Don Burrows for over 40 years & was my inspiration
> >> when I
> >> was learning. I used to go to his Master Classes & came away inspired
> >> every
> >> time.
> >>
> >> I am going to see Bill Frisell on May 1 this year at the Melbourne Jazz
> >> Festival & I'm enrolled in his Master Class later in the program. As I
> >> have
> >> over 20 of his albums, and just love his eclectic mix of jazz
> >> improvisation,
> >> folk & Americana, this is the highlight of my year & probably the decade.
> >> A
> >> Bill Frisell Master Class.....WOW!!!
>
> > Very cool! Enjoy. He was at our college 2 years ago as the featured
> > artist at our jazz festival. What a player!
>
> Hi Jenn. Yes, he's the bees knees along with Jim Hall. Have you heard the
> album the duo put out recently? It's called 'Hemispheres' and is a double
> album, the first CD with just Bill & Jim, and the second, a quartet with
> Scott Colley & Joey Barron.
> I really can't recommend it too highly, especially as Jim is now 78 and
> looks older, and probably won't be around for too much much longer.He lives
> in New York these days, and still manages at least one gig a week His album
> 'All Across the City' is one of my all-time favourites.
>
> ruff

I haven't heard that album yet, but I saw the interview with the two of
them in a recent Fretboard Journal magazine. I don't listen to or play
a lot of jazz, but I sure appreciate the talents of those two guys.

March 21st 09, 01:21 AM

"roughplanet" > wrote in message
...
> > wrote in message
> ...
>
> On 19 Mar, 10:27, "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>
>>> This thread is quite unique in that most good threads
>>> are quickly highjacked, and turn from interesting topics
>>> into a chimp fight.
>>>
>>> This thread, started as a chimp fight, been
>>> high-jacked and turned into an interesting topic:-)
>>>
>>> Iain
>
>> "at least" until Arny reads a two minute primer on guitars,
>> and casts himelf as an expert, saying that no one needs anything more
>> than a $250 Ibanez.
>
> BWAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!! Struth Clyde, you really know Arnie well, don't you
> :-)?
>
> ruff
I would prefer not to ;-)

Cheers TT

roughplanet[_2_]

March 21st 09, 02:05 AM

"TT" > wrote in message
. au...

"roughplanet" > wrote in message
...

> wrote in message
...

On 19 Mar, 10:27, "Iain Churches" > wrote:

>>>> This thread is quite unique in that most good threads
>>>> are quickly highjacked, and turn from interesting topics
>>>> into a chimp fight.
>>>>
>>>> This thread, started as a chimp fight, been
>>>> high-jacked and turned into an interesting topic:-)

>>> "at least" until Arny reads a two minute primer on guitars,
>>> and casts himelf as an expert, saying that no one needs anything more
>>> than a $250 Ibanez.

>> BWAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!! Struth Clyde, you really know Arnie well, don't you
>> :-)?

> I would prefer not to ;-)

I CERTAINLY didn't mean that in the biblical sense or any other for that
matter.
The Krooborg has been conspicuous by his absence of late, but that's always
the
way once he's been caught with his foot in his mouth.

Who does it remind you of TT?

ruff

March 21st 09, 04:57 AM

"roughplanet" > wrote in message
...
> "TT" > wrote in message
> . au...
>
> "roughplanet" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
>
> On 19 Mar, 10:27, "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>
>>>>> This thread is quite unique in that most good threads
>>>>> are quickly highjacked, and turn from interesting topics
>>>>> into a chimp fight.
>>>>>
>>>>> This thread, started as a chimp fight, been
>>>>> high-jacked and turned into an interesting topic:-)
>
>>>> "at least" until Arny reads a two minute primer on guitars,
>>>> and casts himelf as an expert, saying that no one needs anything more
>>>> than a $250 Ibanez.
>
>>> BWAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!! Struth Clyde, you really know Arnie well, don't you
>>> :-)?
>
>> I would prefer not to ;-)
>
> I CERTAINLY didn't mean that in the biblical sense or any other for that
> matter.

I never interpreted it that way at all. There are some people that you just
wish you had never come in contact with and AK is one of them.

> The Krooborg has been conspicuous by his absence of late, but that's
> always the
> way once he's been caught with his foot in his mouth.

There is a pattern there for sure.

>
> Who does it remind you of TT?

Well I have had my suspicions that Arny and Philthy share genes. Perhaps
the same sperm donor (as no one would admit to fathering either) was
involved? Both are Idiot Savants with the savant piece missing. Both share
the same homophobic tendencies, both dwell on paedophilia, both claim
technical status without qualifications, one is a "born again" and the other
a Catholic so they both have religious backgrounds and both still own and
use a Sony CDP101! The similarities are truly scary!

Cheers TT

roughplanet[_2_]

March 21st 09, 05:58 AM

"TT" > wrote in message
...

"roughplanet" > wrote in message
...

> wrote in message
...

On 19 Mar, 10:27, "Iain Churches" > wrote:

>>>>>> This thread is quite unique in that most good threads
>>>>>> are quickly highjacked, and turn from interesting topics
>>>>>> into a chimp fight.
>>>>>> This thread, started as a chimp fight, been
>>>>>> high-jacked and turned into an interesting topic:-)

>>>>> "at least" until Arny reads a two minute primer on guitars,
>>>>> and casts himelf as an expert, saying that no one needs anything more
>>>>> than a $250 Ibanez.

>>>> BWAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!! Struth Clyde, you really know Arnie well, don't you
>>>> :-)?

>>> I would prefer not to ;-)

>> I CERTAINLY didn't mean that in the biblical sense or any other for that
>> matter.

> I never interpreted it that way at all. There are some people that you
> just wish you had never come in contact with and AK is one of them.

>> The Krooborg has been conspicuous by his absence of late, but that's
>> always the
>> way once he's been caught with his foot in his mouth.

> There is a pattern there for sure.

>> Who does it remind you of TT?

> Well I have had my suspicions that Arny and Philthy share genes. Perhaps
> the same sperm donor (as no one would admit to fathering either) was
> involved? Both are Idiot Savants with the savant piece missing. Both share
> the same homophobic tendencies, both dwell on paedophilia, both claim
> technical status without qualifications, one is a "born again" and the
> other a Catholic so they both have religious backgrounds and both still
> own and use a Sony CDP101! The similarities are truly scary!

Perhaps they do in fact share the same father; a merchant seaman who
believed in sharing his semen with as many lassies as would accommodate
him..
As they say "There's a sailor in every port & some port in every sailor".
Arnie & Philthy - please take a bow, preferably when facing each other with
only 3' between you.

ruff

D.M. Procida

March 21st 09, 09:21 AM

Mark Harriss > wrote:

> Python is a really good interpreted programming language:
> With careful design I've written image processing software with a GUI
> that was developed and tested on a Linux box, used on a Mac running OSX
> and could run on a windows PC. It ran on all three without modification.
>
> The commercial version of python is a lot faster than the free version
> which is no slouch either. Printing is still a bit of a pain though.

What is "the comercial version of Python"?

Daniele
--
Wanted: TEAC A-2300SX, Akai GX-4000D

matt

March 21st 09, 10:35 AM

On Mar 21, 2:11*am, Soundhaspriority > wrote:
> > "roughplanet" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> "TT" > wrote in message
> . au...
>
> >> "roughplanet" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> >> > wrote in message
> ....
>
> >> On 19 Mar, 10:27, "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>
> >>>>>> This thread is quite unique in that most good threads
> >>>>>> are quickly highjacked, and turn from interesting topics
> >>>>>> into a chimp fight.
>
> >>>>>> This thread, started as a chimp fight, been
> >>>>>> high-jacked and turned into an interesting topic:-)
>
> >>>>> "at least" until Arny reads a two minute primer on guitars,
> >>>>> and casts himelf as an expert, saying that no one needs anything more
> >>>>> than a $250 Ibanez.
>
> >>>> BWAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!! Struth Clyde, you really know Arnie well, don't you
> >>>> :-)?
>
> >>> I would prefer not to ;-)
>
> >> I CERTAINLY didn't mean that in the biblical sense or any other for that
> >> matter.
>
> > I never interpreted it that way at all. *There are some people that you just
> > wish you had never come in contact with and AK is one of them.
>
> >> The Krooborg has been conspicuous by his absence of late, but that's
> >> always the
> >> way once he's been caught with his foot in his mouth.
>
> > There is a pattern there for sure.
>
> >> Who does it remind you of TT?
>
> > Well I have had my suspicions that Arny and Philthy share genes. *Perhaps
> > the same sperm donor (as no one would admit to fathering either) was
> > involved? *Both are Idiot Savants with the savant piece missing. *Both share
> > the same homophobic tendencies, both dwell on paedophilia, both claim
> > technical status without qualifications, one is a "born again" and the other
> > a Catholic so they both have religious backgrounds and both still own and
> > use a Sony CDP101! *The similarities are truly scary!
>
> I got one of them, too! *And the homo part, and the pedant part, the
> technical status - and I'm a jew!
>
> Hey, don't forget me!
>

What the heck are you talking about? Actually dont even reply to what
this is about because this forum has enough spam already. I think that
this forum can do without this jargon but thats just my opinion

Have a nice weekend,
Matthew Mcgowin

Arny Krueger

March 21st 09, 11:02 AM

"TT" > wrote in message

> There are some
> people that you just wish you had never come in contact
> with and AK is one of them.

This would because of the many times I proved you completely and utterly
wrong.

roughplanet[_2_]

March 21st 09, 12:29 PM

"D.M. Procida" > wrote in
message
...

Mark Harriss > wrote:

>> Python is a really good interpreted programming language:
>> With careful design I've written image processing software with a GUI
>> that was developed and tested on a Linux box, used on a Mac running OSX
>> and could run on a windows PC. It ran on all three without modification.
>>
>> The commercial version of python is a lot faster than the free version
>> which is no slouch either. Printing is still a bit of a pain though.

> What is "the comercial version of Python"?
>
> Daniele
> --
> Wanted: TEAC A-2300SX, Akai GX-4000D

Commercial releases of Python, of which I know of at least 12, are tailored
to connect Python to most major databases, including the following:

- MS Access
- MS SQL Server and
- Oracle
- MYSQL
- IBM DG2
- Informix
- etc.

on all major platforms, using a Python DB-API 2.0 standard compatible
interface.

The best of them IMHO is mxODBC (Open Database Connectivity) but don't be
misled by the title; the source code is NOT available

In addition, most of the commercial releases, whilst having drivers for M$
products, usually lag behind with other OS's like Linux, BSD, MacOS, Palm,
Nokia etc.

So unless you're writing code for a living, especially databases, you're
probably just as well served with the Linux version of Python, of which
version 3.01 (3.1 alpha 1) has just been released.

Happy coding.

ruff

atec 77[_2_]

March 21st 09, 12:32 PM

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "TT" > wrote in message
>
>
>> There are some
>> people that you just wish you had never come in contact
>> with and AK is one of them.
>
> This would because of the many times I proved you completely and utterly
> wrong.
>
>
bull****e.

D.M. Procida

March 21st 09, 01:09 PM

roughplanet > wrote:

> >> The commercial version of python is a lot faster than the free version
> >> which is no slouch either. Printing is still a bit of a pain though.
>
> > What is "the comercial version of Python"?

> The best of them IMHO is mxODBC (Open Database Connectivity) but don't be
> misled by the title; the source code is NOT available

That's not a version of Python, it's an extension to Python.

> So unless you're writing code for a living, especially databases, you're
> probably just as well served with the Linux version of Python, of which
> version 3.01 (3.1 alpha 1) has just been released.

I'm sorry, this is making less and less sense. There is no such thing as
"the Linux version of Python".

Daniele
--
Wanted: TEAC A-2300SX, Akai GX-4000D

Mark Harriss

March 21st 09, 01:48 PM

D.M. Procida wrote:
> I'm sorry, this is making less and less sense. There is no such thing as
> "the Linux version of Python".
>
> Daniele

Ruff made perfect sense to me, I suppose you could apply a Java-like
interpretation of his phrasing and therefore not understand him.

http://www.python.org/download/linux/

March 21st 09, 02:15 PM

"atec 77" <"atec 7 7 > wrote in message
...
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>> "TT" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>>> There are some
>>> people that you just wish you had never come in contact
>>> with and AK is one of them.
>>
>> This would because of the many times I proved you completely and utterly
>> wrong.
> bull****e.

Poor old sad Arny is struggling to find people to talk to him now or even
abuse him. Just like Philthy, once you expose them for what they are they
just shrivel up and stop posting.

Cheers TT

Arny Krueger

March 21st 09, 02:40 PM

"atec 77" <"atec 7 7 > wrote in message

> Arny Krueger wrote:
>> "TT" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>>> There are some
>>> people that you just wish you had never come in contact
>>> with and AK is one of them.
>>
>> This would because of the many times I proved you
>> completely and utterly wrong.

> bull****e.

Since you are an anonymous alias, you don't get to have a relevant opinon.
Come back when you grow a real brain and a real name.

Arny Krueger

March 21st 09, 02:41 PM

"TT" > wrote in message
. au

> Poor old sad Arny is struggling to find people to talk to
> him now or even abuse him.

Terry, that would be a lie if you were sentient enough to be held
accountable. As things stand, holding you responsible for your actions is
like kicking a dog for not being able to spell.

[email protected]

March 21st 09, 06:06 PM

On 21 Mar, 10:41, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> "TT" > wrote in message
>
> . au
>
> > Poor old sad Arny is struggling to find people to talk to
> > him now or even abuse him.
>
> Terry, that would be a lie if you were sentient enough to be held
> accountable. As things stand, holding you responsible for your actions is
> like kicking a dog for not being able to spell.

that's just flat out 'rediculous'

D.M. Procida

March 21st 09, 07:30 PM

Mark Harriss > wrote:

> > I'm sorry, this is making less and less sense. There is no such thing as
> > "the Linux version of Python".

> Ruff made perfect sense to me, I suppose you could apply a Java-like
> interpretation of his phrasing and therefore not understand him.
>
> http://www.python.org/download/linux/

If you actually read that page, you'll see that it isn't offering a
Linux version of Python, never mind *the* Linux version (and that's
because, as I pointed out, there isn't such a thing).

Python is available as source code. Binary releases are also available
for Mac OS X and Windows. Most Linux distributions include Python or
offer a binary package.

I'm still interested in this mysterious "commercial version" of Python.

Daniele
--
Wanted: TEAC A-2300SX, Akai GX-4000D

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!

March 21st 09, 10:06 PM

On Mar 21, 9:15*am, "TT" > wrote:

> Poor old sad Arny is struggling to find people to talk to him now or even
> abuse him. *Just like Philthy, once you expose them for what they are they
> just shrivel up and stop posting.

It is sad to see GOIA swirl ever deeper into his insane cesspool.

All the poor old nut has left is Clyde.

Mark Harriss

March 22nd 09, 12:00 AM

All I was implying earlier, was that I can extract the general gist
of Ruff's writings perfectly. I accept that a person such as a Java
programmer with a bad case of Asperger's syndrome might take exception
to such writing and erupt in a paroxysmal frenzy of nitpicking.

George M. Middius[_4_]

March 22nd 09, 12:05 AM

Mark Harriss said:

> paroxysmal frenzy

redundant tautology

Mark Harriss

March 22nd 09, 12:06 AM

George M. Middius wrote:
>
> Mark Harriss said:
>
>> paroxysmal frenzy
>
> redundant tautology
>
>

The word paroxysm means sudden fit or outburst.

March 22nd 09, 12:27 AM

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in message
...
On Mar 21, 9:15 am, "TT" > wrote:

> Poor old sad Arny is struggling to find people to talk to him now or even
> abuse him. Just like Philthy, once you expose them for what they are they
> just shrivel up and stop posting.

It is sad to see GOIA swirl ever deeper into his insane cesspool.

All the poor old nut has left is Clyde.

I must confess that the temptation to poke it with a stick and watch it
squirm is very appealing from time to time. Although I do tire of the same
repetitive responses and predictable behaviour. Sighhhh..................
It's a bit like punching one of those laughing clowns that just stand
straight back up again and ask for more. The first few times is funny but
the novelty soon wears off.

Pavlov had his dogs and we have Arny ;-) I should mention at least the poor
dumb creatures made a contribution to science.

Cheers TT

George M. Middius[_4_]

March 22nd 09, 02:24 AM

Mark Harriss said:

> >> paroxysmal frenzy
> >
> > redundant tautology

> The word paroxysm means sudden fit or outburst.

And what do you think "frenzy" means?

roughplanet[_2_]

March 22nd 09, 05:29 AM

> wrote in message
...

On 21 Mar, 10:41, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:

"TT" > wrote in message
. au

>> > Poor old sad Arny is struggling to find people to talk to
>> > him now or even abuse him.

>> Terry, that would be a lie if you were sentient enough to be held
>> accountable. As things stand, holding you responsible for your actions is
>> like kicking a dog for not being able to spell.

> that's just flat out 'rediculous'

Don't you mean 'readikulus' Clyde?

ruff

March 22nd 09, 06:10 AM

"roughplanet" > wrote in message
...
> > wrote in message
> ...
>
> On 21 Mar, 10:41, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
> "TT" > wrote in message
> . au
>
>>> > Poor old sad Arny is struggling to find people to talk to
>>> > him now or even abuse him.
>
>>> Terry, that would be a lie if you were sentient enough to be held
>>> accountable. As things stand, holding you responsible for your actions
>>> is
>>> like kicking a dog for not being able to spell.
>
>> that's just flat out 'rediculous'
>
> Don't you mean 'readikulus' Clyde?
>
> ruff
Careful Ruff, Arny will wade in here again with both guns blazing insulting
you and thinking it is me again ;-)

Cheers TT

roughplanet[_2_]

March 22nd 09, 06:20 AM

"D.M. Procida" > wrote in
message
...

roughplanet > wrote:

>> >> The commercial version of python is a lot faster than the free version
>> >> which is no slouch either. Printing is still a bit of a pain though.

>> > What is "the comercial version of Python"?

>> The best of them IMHO is mxODBC (Open Database Connectivity) but don't be
>> misled by the title; the source code is NOT available

> That's not a version of Python, it's an extension to Python.

In the same way a GUI is an extension to an OS perhaps? Systems like Unix
and Linux generally implement programming languages as an application
program that runs outside the operating system. Whether the proprieatary GUI
should be included as part of the programming language is a point of
contention. It's also what makes a commercial version of Python as well.

>> So unless you're writing code for a living, especially databases, you're
>> probably just as well served with the Linux version of Python, of which
>> version 3.01 (3.1 alpha 1) has just been released.
>
> I'm sorry, this is making less and less sense. There is no such thing as
> "the Linux version of Python".

Are you serious? There are 'versions' of Python specifically tailored for
Linux in the same way as there are 'versions' specifically tailored for
Unix, WinXP or Vista.
The Open Source versions are not, but IDE's, GUI frameworks, applications
based on Python, Python embedded as a scripting language in proprietary
software, and versions of Python taking advantage of specific OS
instructions all do.

ruff

roughplanet[_2_]

March 22nd 09, 06:40 AM

"TT" > wrote in message
...

"roughplanet" > wrote in message
...

> wrote in message
...

On 21 Mar, 10:41, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:

"TT" > wrote in message
. au

>>>> > Poor old sad Arny is struggling to find people to talk to
>>>> > him now or even abuse him.

>>>> Terry, that would be a lie if you were sentient enough to be held
>>>> accountable. As things stand, holding you responsible for your actions
>>>> is like kicking a dog for not being able to spell.

>>> that's just flat out 'rediculous'

>> Don't you mean 'readikulus' Clyde?

> Careful Ruff, Arny will wade in here again with both guns blazing
> insulting you and thinking it is me again ;-)

Well, you are me, weren't you? (that'll give him something to consider if
he's
capable of it :-).

ruff

roughplanet[_2_]

March 22nd 09, 06:52 AM

"Mark Harriss" > wrote in message
...

> All I was implying earlier, was that I can extract the general gist
> of Ruff's writings perfectly. I accept that a person such as a Java
> programmer with a bad case of Asperger's syndrome might take exception
> to such writing and erupt in a paroxysmal frenzy of nitpicking.

Or alternatively, one of the same erudite group might like to embed the
argument in resin & shave slivers of it off with a microtome, thus enabling
the most careful examination of said argument possible.

ruff

atec 77[_2_]

March 22nd 09, 08:42 AM

TT wrote:
> "roughplanet" > wrote in message
> ...
>> > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> On 21 Mar, 10:41, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>
>> "TT" > wrote in message
>> . au
>>
>>>>> Poor old sad Arny is struggling to find people to talk to
>>>>> him now or even abuse him.
>>>> Terry, that would be a lie if you were sentient enough to be held
>>>> accountable. As things stand, holding you responsible for your actions
>>>> is
>>>> like kicking a dog for not being able to spell.
>>> that's just flat out 'rediculous'
>> Don't you mean 'readikulus' Clyde?
>>
>> ruff
> Careful Ruff, Arny will wade in here again with both guns blazing insulting
> you and thinking it is me again ;-)
>
> Cheers TT
>
>
The only thing arnie could find with his "gun" is his own arse , and
even then he would miss the target.

D.M. Procida

March 22nd 09, 09:10 AM

roughplanet > wrote:

> > I'm sorry, this is making less and less sense. There is no such thing as
> > "the Linux version of Python".
>
> Are you serious? There are 'versions' of Python specifically tailored for
> Linux in the same way as there are 'versions' specifically tailored for
> Unix, WinXP or Vista.

No, there are not.

There is Python. Any different 'versions' of it are successive releases,
not parallel releases for different systems.

Python's source code is available for users of computer systems with
appropriate compilers.

Binary packages *of the same thing* are also made available.

Most Linux distributions include or provide a packaged Python - again, a
package *of the same thing*. Obviously, they are packaged differently
for each distribution.

There is nothing in any of these that makes them in themselves faster or
slower than any other. They are all installations of the same thing.

This isn't a forum for discussing Python, so I'll drop it now. But your
claim "The commercial version of python is a lot faster than the free
version" is not merely not true, it doesn't even refer to things that
exist.

Daniele
--
Wanted: TEAC A-2300SX, Akai GX-4000D

roughplanet[_2_]

March 22nd 09, 11:51 AM

"D.M. Procida" > wrote in
message
...

roughplanet > wrote:

>> > I'm sorry, this is making less and less sense. There is no such thing
>> > as
>> > "the Linux version of Python".

>> Are you serious? There are 'versions' of Python specifically tailored for
>> Linux in the same way as there are 'versions' specifically tailored for
>> Unix, WinXP or Vista.

> No, there are not.

> There is Python. Any different 'versions' of it are successive releases,
> not parallel releases for different systems.
>
> Python's source code is available for users of computer systems with
> appropriate compilers.
>
> Binary packages *of the same thing* are also made available.
>
> Most Linux distributions include or provide a packaged Python - again, a
> package *of the same thing*. Obviously, they are packaged differently
> for each distribution.
>
> There is nothing in any of these that makes them in themselves faster or
> slower than any other. They are all installations of the same thing.
>
> This isn't a forum for discussing Python, so I'll drop it now. But your
> claim "The commercial version of python is a lot faster than the free
> version" is not merely not true, it doesn't even refer to things that
> exist.

Not 'my' claim - tell that to the OP. Coming into a discussion without
having read the
entire thread just makes you look silly.

ruff

Mark Harriss

March 22nd 09, 12:30 PM

D.M. Procida wrote:
>
> Most Linux distributions include or provide a packaged Python - again, a
> package *of the same thing*. Obviously, they are packaged differently
> for each distribution.

So for you, "Version" is defined to mean a particular release number
but not a particular operating system distribution free or commercial?.

>
> There is nothing in any of these that makes them in themselves faster or
> slower than any other. They are all installations of the same thing.
>

What about the Psyco project? if it's just an "installation of the same
thing" it wouldn't be able to speed unmodified Python code 2x to 100x
simply by using a dynamically loaded C extension module. Psyco uses a
just in time compiler rather than interpreting the code whose syntax
isn't completely identical to Python. I'd consider it a different
"Version" of Python.

> This isn't a forum for discussing Python, so I'll drop it now. But your
> claim "The commercial version of python is a lot faster than the free
> version" is not merely not true, it doesn't even refer to things that
> exist.

How does "Some paid-for flavours of Python run faster" sound?.

D.M. Procida

March 22nd 09, 12:31 PM

roughplanet > wrote:

> > This isn't a forum for discussing Python, so I'll drop it now. But your
> > claim "The commercial version of python is a lot faster than the free
> > version" is not merely not true, it doesn't even refer to things that
> > exist.
>
> Not 'my' claim - tell that to the OP. Coming into a discussion without
> having read the
> entire thread just makes you look silly.

I beg your pardon. I hadn't noticed that there were two different people
saying daft things about Python...

Daniele
--
Wanted: TEAC A-2300SX, Akai GX-4000D

roughplanet[_2_]

March 22nd 09, 12:41 PM

"D.M. Procida" > wrote in
message
...

roughplanet > wrote:

>> > This isn't a forum for discussing Python, so I'll drop it now. But your
>> > claim "The commercial version of python is a lot faster than the free
>> > version" is not merely not true, it doesn't even refer to things that
>> > exist.

>> Not 'my' claim - tell that to the OP. Coming into a discussion without
>> having read the entire thread just makes you look silly.

> I beg your pardon. I hadn't noticed that there were two different people
> saying daft things about Python...

Hmmmm......I suspect that's not all you 'hadn't noticed' despite your
nitpicking. It would seem that by your definition and mine, there are three.

ruff

roughplanet[_2_]

March 22nd 09, 12:46 PM

"Mark Harriss" > wrote in message
...

D.M. Procida wrote:

>> Most Linux distributions include or provide a packaged Python - again, a
>> package *of the same thing*. Obviously, they are packaged differently
>> for each distribution.

> So for you, "Version" is defined to mean a particular release number
> but not a particular operating system distribution free or commercial?.

>> There is nothing in any of these that makes them in themselves faster or
>> slower than any other. They are all installations of the same thing.

Nonsense. Read on Danielle.........

> What about the Psyco project? if it's just an "installation of the same
> thing" it wouldn't be able to speed unmodified Python code 2x to 100x
> simply by using a dynamically loaded C extension module. Psyco uses a
> just in time compiler rather than interpreting the code whose syntax isn't
> completely identical to Python. I'd consider it a different "Version" of
> Python.

>> This isn't a forum for discussing Python, so I'll drop it now. But your
>> claim "The commercial version of python is a lot faster than the free
>> version" is not merely not true, it doesn't even refer to things that
>> exist.

> How does "Some paid-for flavours of Python run faster" sound?.

I suspect to Danielle, substituting 'paid-for flavours' just won't cut the
mustard Mark :-).
What's that old saying...."A man convinced against his will is of the same
opinion still"?
I should run a book on this one. 3 to 1 on or 5 to 2 the field :-).

ruff

D.M. Procida

March 22nd 09, 12:55 PM

Mark Harriss > wrote:

> D.M. Procida wrote:
> >
> > Most Linux distributions include or provide a packaged Python - again, a
> > package *of the same thing*. Obviously, they are packaged differently
> > for each distribution.
>
> So for you, "Version" is defined to mean a particular release number
> but not a particular operating system distribution free or commercial?.

It could be either, but in the case of Python, there aren't any versions
in that second sense.

> > There is nothing in any of these that makes them in themselves faster or
> > slower than any other. They are all installations of the same thing.
> >
>
> What about the Psyco project? [...] I'd consider it a different
> "Version" of Python.

It's an extension module for Python. It requires Python. It will select
bits of your Python code while the Python interpreter is running, and
evaluate them to see if it can usefully compile them on a just-in-time
basis.

Also, it's a free product.

> > This isn't a forum for discussing Python, so I'll drop it now. But your
> > claim "The commercial version of python is a lot faster than the free
> > version" is not merely not true, it doesn't even refer to things that
> > exist.
>
> How does "Some paid-for flavours of Python run faster" sound?.

It would be OK if set to a nice tune, but all the same, I have yet to
encounter any of these paid-for flavours of Python (and if there are
any, I doubt they'd be a lot faster).

Sorry, I didn't keep my promise to shut up.

Daniele
--
Wanted: TEAC A-2300SX, Akai GX-4000D

Mark Harriss

March 22nd 09, 01:12 PM

D.M. Procida wrote:
> Mark Harriss > wrote:
>
>> D.M. Procida wrote:
>>> Most Linux distributions include or provide a packaged Python - again, a
>>> package *of the same thing*. Obviously, they are packaged differently
>>> for each distribution.
>> So for you, "Version" is defined to mean a particular release number
>> but not a particular operating system distribution free or commercial?.
>
> It could be either, but in the case of Python, there aren't any versions
> in that second sense.
>
>>> There is nothing in any of these that makes them in themselves faster or
>>> slower than any other. They are all installations of the same thing.
>>>
>> What about the Psyco project? [...] I'd consider it a different
>> "Version" of Python.
>
> It's an extension module for Python. It requires Python. It will select
> bits of your Python code while the Python interpreter is running, and
> evaluate them to see if it can usefully compile them on a just-in-time
> basis.

It is not "A package of the same thing" this is my point, it's
written in C# programming language. Standard plain vanilla Python is
written in C. PyPy is Python written in RPython, Jython is Python
written in Java. Psyco and PyPy use a dialect of Python called RPython
for a start.

So we have Pythons implemented in four different languages and using
at least two different sytaxes. Do you mean to tell me these are all
"Again a package of the same thing"?.

> Also, it's a free product.

I didn't say it was a commercial product.

>
>>> This isn't a forum for discussing Python, so I'll drop it now. But your
>>> claim "The commercial version of python is a lot faster than the free
>>> version" is not merely not true, it doesn't even refer to things that
>>> exist.
>> How does "Some paid-for flavours of Python run faster" sound?.
>
> It would be OK if set to a nice tune, but all the same, I have yet to
> encounter any of these paid-for flavours of Python (and if there are
> any, I doubt they'd be a lot faster).

In 2004 I personally used a paid for commercially supported Python
package that ran 4x faster than the newest freely available version at
that time. Although I'm sure you can come up with some nitpicking
redefinition to disagree with me though.

>
> Sorry, I didn't keep my promise to shut up.

I too, am sorry you didn't shut up.
>
> Daniele

Mark Harriss

March 22nd 09, 01:19 PM

roughplanet wrote:
> I suspect to Danielle, substituting 'paid-for flavours' just won't cut the
> mustard Mark :-).
>
> What's that old saying...."A man convinced against his will is of the same
> opinion still"?
>
>

I agree completely, I'm getting sick of the whole Java-esque
discussion. I've seen with my own eyes that a commercially bought
version of Python ran much faster in 2004 and all I get is some clown
calling me a liar and making statements about all versions of Python
being the same version as though he's the final authority on the topic.

March 22nd 09, 01:52 PM

"atec 77" <"atec 7 7 > wrote in message
...
> TT wrote:
>> "roughplanet" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>> On 21 Mar, 10:41, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>>
>>> "TT" > wrote in message
>>> . au
>>>
>>>>>> Poor old sad Arny is struggling to find people to talk to
>>>>>> him now or even abuse him.
>>>>> Terry, that would be a lie if you were sentient enough to be held
>>>>> accountable. As things stand, holding you responsible for your actions
>>>>> is
>>>>> like kicking a dog for not being able to spell.
>>>> that's just flat out 'rediculous'
>>> Don't you mean 'readikulus' Clyde?
>>>
>>> ruff
>> Careful Ruff, Arny will wade in here again with both guns blazing
>> insulting you and thinking it is me again ;-)
>>
>> Cheers TT
> The only thing arnie could find with his "gun" is his own arse , and even
> then he would miss the target.

Not if he aimed at his head ;-)

Cheers TT

March 22nd 09, 01:55 PM

"roughplanet" > wrote in message
u...
> "TT" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> "roughplanet" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
>
> On 21 Mar, 10:41, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
> "TT" > wrote in message
> . au
>
>>>>> > Poor old sad Arny is struggling to find people to talk to
>>>>> > him now or even abuse him.
>
>>>>> Terry, that would be a lie if you were sentient enough to be held
>>>>> accountable. As things stand, holding you responsible for your actions
>>>>> is like kicking a dog for not being able to spell.
>
>>>> that's just flat out 'rediculous'
>
>>> Don't you mean 'readikulus' Clyde?
>
>> Careful Ruff, Arny will wade in here again with both guns blazing
>> insulting you and thinking it is me again ;-)
>
> Well, you are me, weren't you? (that'll give him something to consider if
> he's
> capable of it :-).
>
> ruff
Nah! He's too busy rattling Tambourines today and shouting the odd
halejuleah ;-)

Cheers TT

atec 77[_2_]

March 22nd 09, 02:05 PM

TT wrote:
> "atec 77" <"atec 7 7 > wrote in message
> ...
>> TT wrote:
>>> "roughplanet" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> On 21 Mar, 10:41, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "TT" > wrote in message
>>>> . au
>>>>
>>>>>>> Poor old sad Arny is struggling to find people to talk to
>>>>>>> him now or even abuse him.
>>>>>> Terry, that would be a lie if you were sentient enough to be held
>>>>>> accountable. As things stand, holding you responsible for your actions
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> like kicking a dog for not being able to spell.
>>>>> that's just flat out 'rediculous'
>>>> Don't you mean 'readikulus' Clyde?
>>>>
>>>> ruff
>>> Careful Ruff, Arny will wade in here again with both guns blazing
>>> insulting you and thinking it is me again ;-)
>>>
>>> Cheers TT
>> The only thing arnie could find with his "gun" is his own arse , and even
>> then he would miss the target.
>
> Not if he aimed at his head ;-)
>
> Cheers TT
>
>
I dunno , it's a very tiny target No?

[email protected]

March 22nd 09, 02:47 PM

On 22 Mar, 09:55, "TT" > wrote:
> "roughplanet" > wrote in message
>
> u...
>
>
>
> > "TT" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > "roughplanet" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > > wrote in message
> ....
>
> > On 21 Mar, 10:41, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
> > "TT" > wrote in message
> . au
>
> >>>>> > Poor old sad Arny is struggling to find people to talk to
> >>>>> > him now or even abuse him.
>
> >>>>> Terry, that would be a lie if you were sentient enough to be held
> >>>>> accountable. As things stand, holding you responsible for your actions
> >>>>> is like kicking a dog for not being able to spell.
>
> >>>> that's just flat out 'rediculous'
>
> >>> Don't you mean 'readikulus' Clyde?
>
> >> Careful Ruff, Arny will wade in here again with both guns blazing
> >> insulting you and thinking it is me again ;-)
>
> > Well, you are me, weren't you? (that'll give him something to consider if
> > he's
> > capable of it :-).
>
> > ruff
>
> Nah! *He's too busy rattling Tambourines today and shouting the odd
> halejuleah ;-)
>
> Cheers TT-

At home, Susan makes him hop around the bedroom in his undershorts,
banging his tambourine
and shouting out Praise the Lord. It's Saturday night at the Krueger's

D.M. Procida

March 22nd 09, 03:22 PM

Mark Harriss > wrote:

> >> What about the Psyco project? [...] I'd consider it a different
> >> "Version" of Python.
> >
> > It's an extension module for Python. It requires Python. It will select
> > bits of your Python code while the Python interpreter is running, and
> > evaluate them to see if it can usefully compile them on a just-in-time
> > basis.
>
> It is not "A package of the same thing" this is my point, it's
> written in C# programming language. Standard plain vanilla Python is
> written in C. PyPy is Python written in RPython, Jython is Python
> written in Java. Psyco and PyPy use a dialect of Python called RPython
> for a start.
>
> So we have Pythons implemented in four different languages and using
> at least two different sytaxes. Do you mean to tell me these are all
> "Again a package of the same thing"?.

JPython counts as a version of Python. (I don't see why you say that
Psyco uses RPython - I've not used it, but as far as I'm aware Pysco
plugs into a standard Python installation and works with standard Python
code.)

We're not really getting any closer to an example of "a commercial
version of Python that's faster than the Linux version".

> > It would be OK if set to a nice tune, but all the same, I have yet to
> > encounter any of these paid-for flavours of Python (and if there are
> > any, I doubt they'd be a lot faster).
>
> In 2004 I personally used a paid for commercially supported Python
> package that ran 4x faster than the newest freely available version at
> that time. Although I'm sure you can come up with some nitpicking
> redefinition to disagree with me though.

What was it called?

Daniele
--
Wanted: TEAC A-2300SX, Akai GX-4000D

D.M. Procida

March 22nd 09, 03:22 PM

Mark Harriss > wrote:

> roughplanet wrote:
> > I suspect to Danielle, substituting 'paid-for flavours' just won't cut the
> > mustard Mark :-).
> >
> > What's that old saying...."A man convinced against his will is of the same
> > opinion still"?
>
> I agree completely, I'm getting sick of the whole Java-esque
> discussion. I've seen with my own eyes that a commercially bought
> version of Python ran much faster in 2004 and all I get is some clown
> calling me a liar and making statements about all versions of Python
> being the same version as though he's the final authority on the topic.

You can wind your neck in. No-one's calling you a liar.

I'm simply asking you to identify this mysterious commercial version of
Python that's faster than the Linux version (your words, not mine).

Daniele
--
Wanted: TEAC A-2300SX, Akai GX-4000D

calvin coolidge

March 22nd 09, 04:33 PM

On Mar 22, 8:22ï¿½am, (D..M.
Procida) wrote:
> Wanted: TEAC A-2300SX, Akai GX-4000D

I have a spare TEAC A-2300SR...

D.M. Procida

March 22nd 09, 05:02 PM

calvin coolidge > wrote:

> On Mar 22, 8:22?am, (D.M.
> Procida) wrote:
> > Wanted: TEAC A-2300SX, Akai GX-4000D
>
> I have a spare TEAC A-2300SR...

I've wondered about those... how well does the tape path and tension
mechanism of the 2300-series adapt to reverse operation? And does it
move the heads for reverse, or does it have four-channel heads?

Daniele
--
Wanted: TEAC A-2300SX, Akai GX-4000D

calvin coolidge

March 22nd 09, 05:21 PM

On Mar 22, 10:02ï¿½am,
(D.M. Procida) wrote:
> calvin coolidge > wrote:
> > On Mar 22, 8:22?am, (D.M.
> > Procida) wrote:
> > > Wanted: TEAC A-2300SX, Akai GX-4000D
>
> > I have a spare TEAC A-2300SR...
>
> I've wondered about those... how well does the tape path and tension
> mechanism of the 2300-series adapt to reverse operation? And does it
> move the heads for reverse, or does it have four-channel heads?

Unfortunately, I don't know. I received it as part of a big trade with
someone and I keep telling myself that I'm going to grab some tape and
start playing around with it. It's been sitting in my closet for a
year. I do know that it's in wonderful condition, and that a
technician serviced it and brought it up to spec after I bought it
(he's a friend and owed me a favor). He said it was a wonderful
machine and in fantastic shape.

D.M. Procida

March 22nd 09, 05:33 PM

calvin coolidge > wrote:

> On Mar 22, 10:02?am,
> (D.M. Procida) wrote:
> > calvin coolidge > wrote:
> > > On Mar 22, 8:22?am, (D.M.
> > > Procida) wrote:
> > > > Wanted: TEAC A-2300SX, Akai GX-4000D
> >
> > > I have a spare TEAC A-2300SR...
> >
> > I've wondered about those... how well does the tape path and tension
> > mechanism of the 2300-series adapt to reverse operation? And does it
> > move the heads for reverse, or does it have four-channel heads?
>
> Unfortunately, I don't know. I received it as part of a big trade with
> someone and I keep telling myself that I'm going to grab some tape and
> start playing around with it. It's been sitting in my closet for a
> year. I do know that it's in wonderful condition, and that a
> technician serviced it and brought it up to spec after I bought it
> (he's a friend and owed me a favor). He said it was a wonderful
> machine and in fantastic shape.

They are great machines. I'm more familiar with the larger TEAC
four-tracks, but they are similar.

I suspect that I'm about to find that it's in the wrong part of the
world, expensively far away from Cardiff, UK - but where is it?

Daniele
--
Wanted: TEAC A-2300SX, Akai GX-4000D

George M. Middius[_4_]

March 22nd 09, 06:03 PM

roughplanet said:

> > But your claim "The commercial version of python is a lot faster
> > than the free version" is not merely not true, it doesn't even refer
> > to things that exist.

> Not 'my' claim - tell that to the OP.

That was me, and this was originally a bash-the-Krooborg thread. Thanks
for hijacking it for your geekfest.

calvin coolidge

March 22nd 09, 06:16 PM

On Mar 22, 10:33ï¿½am,
(D.M. Procida) wrote:
> calvin coolidge > wrote:
> > On Mar 22, 10:02?am,
> > (D.M. Procida) wrote:
> > > calvin coolidge > wrote:
> > > > On Mar 22, 8:22?am, (D..M.
> > > > Procida) wrote:
> > > > > Wanted: TEAC A-2300SX, Akai GX-4000D
>
> > > > I have a spare TEAC A-2300SR...
>
> > > I've wondered about those... how well does the tape path and tension
> > > mechanism of the 2300-series adapt to reverse operation? And does it
> > > move the heads for reverse, or does it have four-channel heads?
>
> > Unfortunately, I don't know. I received it as part of a big trade with
> > someone and I keep telling myself that I'm going to grab some tape and
> > start playing around with it. It's been sitting in my closet for a
> > year. I do know that it's in wonderful condition, and that a
> > technician serviced it and brought it up to spec after I bought it
> > (he's a friend and owed me a favor). He said it was a wonderful
> > machine and in fantastic shape.
>
> They are great machines. I'm more familiar with the larger TEAC
> four-tracks, but they are similar.
>
> I suspect that I'm about to find that it's in the wrong part of the
> world, expensively far away from Cardiff, UK - but where is it?
>
> Daniele

Sorry, but you're right. It's in the US near Seattle.

D.M. Procida

March 22nd 09, 09:01 PM

calvin coolidge > wrote:

> > > > > I have a spare TEAC A-2300SR...
> >
> > > > I've wondered about those... how well does the tape path and tension
> > > > mechanism of the 2300-series adapt to reverse operation? And does it
> > > > move the heads for reverse, or does it have four-channel heads?
> >
> > > Unfortunately, I don't know. I received it as part of a big trade with
> > > someone and I keep telling myself that I'm going to grab some tape and
> > > start playing around with it. It's been sitting in my closet for a
> > > year. I do know that it's in wonderful condition, and that a
> > > technician serviced it and brought it up to spec after I bought it
> > > (he's a friend and owed me a favor). He said it was a wonderful
> > > machine and in fantastic shape.
> >
> > They are great machines. I'm more familiar with the larger TEAC
> > four-tracks, but they are similar.
> >
> > I suspect that I'm about to find that it's in the wrong part of the
> > world, expensively far away from Cardiff, UK - but where is it?
>
> Sorry, but you're right. It's in the US near Seattle.

How much were you expecting for it? It could conceivably be a viable
transaction.

I've tried to find out a little more about those models, but information
seems to be scarce.

Daniele
--
Wanted: TEAC A-2300SX, Akai GX-4000D

David Looser

March 22nd 09, 09:12 PM

"D.M. Procida" > wrote in
message
...
>
> I've tried to find out a little more about those models, but information
> seems to be scarce.
>
A quick Google search turned up a company that will sell you a pdf of the
user manual for $10. Would seem worth buying if you interested in buying
one.

David.

calvin coolidge

March 22nd 09, 10:05 PM

On Mar 22, 2:01ï¿½pm, (D..M.
Procida) wrote:
> calvin coolidge > wrote:
> > > > > > I have a spare TEAC A-2300SR...
>
> > > > > I've wondered about those... how well does the tape path and tension
> > > > > mechanism of the 2300-series adapt to reverse operation? And does it
> > > > > move the heads for reverse, or does it have four-channel heads?
>
> > > > Unfortunately, I don't know. I received it as part of a big trade with
> > > > someone and I keep telling myself that I'm going to grab some tape and
> > > > start playing around with it. It's been sitting in my closet for a
> > > > year. I do know that it's in wonderful condition, and that a
> > > > technician serviced it and brought it up to spec after I bought it
> > > > (he's a friend and owed me a favor). He said it was a wonderful
> > > > machine and in fantastic shape.
>
> > > They are great machines. I'm more familiar with the larger TEAC
> > > four-tracks, but they are similar.
>
> > > I suspect that I'm about to find that it's in the wrong part of the
> > > world, expensively far away from Cardiff, UK - but where is it?
>
> > Sorry, but you're right. It's in the US near Seattle.
>
> How much were you expecting for it? It could conceivably be a viable
> transaction.
>
> I've tried to find out a little more about those models, but information
> seems to be scarce.
>
> Daniele

I had an offer of $150 a few months ago but didn't act upon it.
Something in that ballpark.

KeithR

March 23rd 09, 12:43 AM

TT wrote:
> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in message
> ...
> On Mar 21, 9:15 am, "TT" > wrote:
>
>> Poor old sad Arny is struggling to find people to talk to him now or even
>> abuse him. Just like Philthy, once you expose them for what they are they
>> just shrivel up and stop posting.
>
> It is sad to see GOIA swirl ever deeper into his insane cesspool.
>
> All the poor old nut has left is Clyde.
>
> I must confess that the temptation to poke it with a stick and watch it
> squirm is very appealing from time to time. Although I do tire of the same
> repetitive responses and predictable behaviour. Sighhhh..................
> It's a bit like punching one of those laughing clowns that just stand
> straight back up again and ask for more. The first few times is funny but
> the novelty soon wears off.
>
> Pavlov had his dogs and we have Arny ;-) I should mention at least the poor
> dumb creatures made a contribution to science.
>
> Cheers TT
>

When are you guys going to realise that Arnie likes being trashed? At
night, he takes off his hair shirt and self flagellates himself to
sleep. He is the complete masochist.

He considers any come-back as a victory, kind of like the Black Knight
in "The search for the Holy Grail", arms and legs cut off but still
claiming victory.

You can't win unless you just ignore it.

Keith

Arny Krueger

March 23rd 09, 12:54 AM

"keithr" > wrote in message

> You can't win unless you just ignore it.

Since you obviously can't ignore me, what qualifies you to give this advice?

Mark Harriss

March 23rd 09, 01:26 AM

Right now I'd like to know what you consider "a package of the same
thing". We've established you have a narrow definition of what
constitutes the term "version" that differs from others. I've provided
examples of different Python "versions" that by any casual glance would
meet your definition of "version" and be considered different, but you
simply ignore the inconvenience of them and deny Psycho uses RPython.

Your definition of "version" and mine must be totally different, but
mine at least doesn't change from post to post, is Jython a different
"version" of Python having been written in Java and not C?.

For the sake of this discussion lets say a version of Python must use
totally different source code and have some differences in the syntax.
I've provided four different language implementations and two with
different syntax, now for the second time are Psycho and PyPy different
"versions" of Python or aren't they?.

March 23rd 09, 01:54 AM

"keithr" > wrote in message
...
> TT wrote:
>> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" >
>> wrote in message
>> ...
>> On Mar 21, 9:15 am, "TT" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Poor old sad Arny is struggling to find people to talk
>>> to him now or even
>>> abuse him. Just like Philthy, once you expose them for
>>> what they are they
>>> just shrivel up and stop posting.
>>
>> It is sad to see GOIA swirl ever deeper into his insane
>> cesspool.
>>
>> All the poor old nut has left is Clyde.
>>
>> I must confess that the temptation to poke it with a
>> stick and watch it squirm is very appealing from time to
>> time. Although I do tire of the same repetitive
>> responses and predictable behaviour.
>> Sighhhh.................. It's a bit like punching one of
>> those laughing clowns that just stand straight back up
>> again and ask for more. The first few times is funny but
>> the novelty soon wears off.
>>
>> Pavlov had his dogs and we have Arny ;-) I should
>> mention at least the poor dumb creatures made a
>> contribution to science.
>>
>> Cheers TT
>
> When are you guys going to realise that Arnie likes being
> trashed? At night, he takes off his hair shirt and self
> flagellates himself to sleep. He is the complete
> masochist.
>
> He considers any come-back as a victory, kind of like the
> Black Knight in "The search for the Holy Grail", arms and
> legs cut off but still claiming victory.
>
> You can't win unless you just ignore it.
>
> Keith

Very good advice Keith but we aren't actually talking to
him, just about him.

Cheers TT

George M. Middius[_4_]

March 23rd 09, 02:07 AM

TT said:

> > You can't win unless you just ignore [the Krooborg].

> Very good advice Keith but we aren't actually talking to
> him, just about him.

Arnii's so stupid, he planted turds in his backyard and hoped a turd
tree would grow.

Arny Krueger

March 23rd 09, 02:17 AM

"TT" > wrote in message
. au
>
> Very good advice Keith but we aren't actually talking to
> him, just about him.

Yes, just like a bunch of jr. high school girls who are trying to be mean.

The point is that the lot of you are obsessed with me.

KeithR

March 23rd 09, 02:37 AM

TT wrote:
> "keithr" > wrote in message
> ...
>> TT wrote:
>>> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" >
>>> wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> On Mar 21, 9:15 am, "TT" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Poor old sad Arny is struggling to find people to talk
>>>> to him now or even
>>>> abuse him. Just like Philthy, once you expose them for
>>>> what they are they
>>>> just shrivel up and stop posting.
>>> It is sad to see GOIA swirl ever deeper into his insane
>>> cesspool.
>>>
>>> All the poor old nut has left is Clyde.
>>>
>>> I must confess that the temptation to poke it with a
>>> stick and watch it squirm is very appealing from time to
>>> time. Although I do tire of the same repetitive
>>> responses and predictable behaviour.
>>> Sighhhh.................. It's a bit like punching one of
>>> those laughing clowns that just stand straight back up
>>> again and ask for more. The first few times is funny but
>>> the novelty soon wears off.
>>>
>>> Pavlov had his dogs and we have Arny ;-) I should
>>> mention at least the poor dumb creatures made a
>>> contribution to science.
>>>
>>> Cheers TT
>> When are you guys going to realise that Arnie likes being
>> trashed? At night, he takes off his hair shirt and self
>> flagellates himself to sleep. He is the complete
>> masochist.
>>
>> He considers any come-back as a victory, kind of like the
>> Black Knight in "The search for the Holy Grail", arms and
>> legs cut off but still claiming victory.
>>
>> You can't win unless you just ignore it.
>>
>> Keith
>
> Very good advice Keith but we aren't actually talking to
> him, just about him.
>
> Cheers TT
>
>
A good point there Terry, he replied to my message even though I was
talking to you, I shall, of course, ignore him.

Keith

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!

March 23rd 09, 02:51 AM

On Mar 22, 9:37*pm, keithr > wrote:
> TT wrote:

> > Very good advice Keith but we aren't actually talking to
> > him, just about him.

> A good point there Terry, he replied to my message even though I was
> talking to you, I shall, of course, ignore him.

Ignoring him clearly drives GOIA even more insane than he already is.

calvin coolidge

March 23rd 09, 04:37 AM

On Mar 22, 6:54ï¿½pm, "TT" > wrote:
> "keithr" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > TT wrote:
> >> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" >
> >> wrote in message
> ....
> >> On Mar 21, 9:15 am, "TT" >
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> Poor old sad Arny is struggling to find people to talk
> >>> to him now or even
> >>> abuse him. Just like Philthy, once you expose them for
> >>> what they are they
> >>> just shrivel up and stop posting.
>
> >> It is sad to see GOIA swirl ever deeper into his insane
> >> cesspool.
>
> >> All the poor old nut has left is Clyde.
>
> >> I must confess that the temptation to poke it with a
> >> stick and watch it squirm is very appealing from time to
> >> time. ï¿½Although I do tire of the same repetitive
> >> responses and predictable behaviour.
> >> Sighhhh.................. It's a bit like punching one of
> >> those laughing clowns that just stand straight back up
> >> again and ask for more. ï¿½The first few times is funny but
> >> the novelty soon wears off.
>
> >> Pavlov had his dogs and we have Arny ;-) ï¿½I should
> >> mention at least the poor dumb creatures made a
> >> contribution to science.
>
> >> Cheers TT
>
> > When are you guys going to realise that Arnie likes being
> > trashed? At night, he takes off his hair shirt and self
> > flagellates himself to sleep. He is the complete
> > masochist.
>
> > He considers any come-back as a victory, kind of like the
> > Black Knight in "The search for the Holy Grail", arms and
> > legs cut off but still claiming victory.
>
> > You can't win unless you just ignore it.
>
> > Keith
>
> Very good advice Keith but we aren't actually talking to
> him, just about him.

Even talking about him isn't interesting anymore. He's just not doing
anything of interest.

Iain Churches[_2_]

March 23rd 09, 05:28 AM

"TT" > wrote in message
. au...
>
> "keithr" > wrote in message
> ...

>> When are you guys going to realise that Arnie likes being trashed? At
>> night, he takes off his hair shirt and self flagellates himself to sleep.
>> He is the complete masochist.
>>
>> He considers any come-back as a victory, kind of like the Black Knight in
>> "The search for the Holy Grail", arms and legs cut off but still claiming
>> victory.
>>
>> You can't win unless you just ignore it.
>>
>> Keith
>
> Very good advice Keith but we aren't actually talking to him, just about
> him.
>

I used to take my replies to Arny very seriously, especially
those regarding music, and recording - subjects close to
my heart. I then realised that he was a complete bonzo,
and that attempts at rational discussion with him were
pointless. By not replying to him, I saved quite a con-
siderable amount of time in a day. I now use this time
in a much more worthwhile way - I have taken up the
tenor saxophone:-)

Iain

Iain Churches[_2_]

March 23rd 09, 05:40 AM

"calvin coolidge" > wrote in message
...
On Mar 22, 10:33?am,
(D.M. Procida) wrote:
> calvin coolidge > wrote:
> > On Mar 22, 10:02?am,
> > (D.M. Procida) wrote:
> > > calvin coolidge > wrote:
> > > > On Mar 22, 8:22?am,
> > > > (D.M.
> > > > Procida) wrote:
> > > > > Wanted: TEAC A-2300SX, Akai GX-4000D
>
> > > > I have a spare TEAC A-2300SR...
>
> > > I've wondered about those... how well does the tape path and tension
> > > mechanism of the 2300-series adapt to reverse operation? And does it
> > > move the heads for reverse, or does it have four-channel heads?
>
> > Unfortunately, I don't know. I received it as part of a big trade with
> > someone and I keep telling myself that I'm going to grab some tape and
> > start playing around with it. It's been sitting in my closet for a
> > year. I do know that it's in wonderful condition, and that a
> > technician serviced it and brought it up to spec after I bought it
> > (he's a friend and owed me a favor). He said it was a wonderful
> > machine and in fantastic shape.
>
> They are great machines. I'm more familiar with the larger TEAC
> four-tracks, but they are similar.
>
> I suspect that I'm about to find that it's in the wrong part of the
> world, expensively far away from Cardiff, UK - but where is it?
>
> Daniele

> Sorry, but you're right. It's in the US near Seattle.

Daniele. Get a quote from a shipping company (not DHL or ay
of those "fast couriers") but a proper freight company. It might not
cost as much as you think. A colleague and I recently had a Studer
console shipped from Canada to Finland. It was crated and weighed
about 100kg. The cost was a lot less than we expected. Your tape
recorder will be much less expensive, but you will have to pay import
tax (about 5% plus VAT) on the total cost including shipping

Iain

March 23rd 09, 07:49 AM

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" >
wrote in message
...
On Mar 22, 9:37 pm, keithr > wrote:
> TT wrote:

> > Very good advice Keith but we aren't actually talking to
> > him, just about him.

> A good point there Terry, he replied to my message even
> though I was
> talking to you, I shall, of course, ignore him.

Ignoring him clearly drives GOIA even more insane than he
already is.

Is that possible? If he were any nuttier we would have a
epidemic of obese Squirrels ;-)

Cheers TT

March 23rd 09, 07:51 AM

"keithr" > wrote in message
...
> TT wrote:
>> "keithr" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> TT wrote:
>>>> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
>>>> > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>> On Mar 21, 9:15 am, "TT" >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Poor old sad Arny is struggling to find people to talk
>>>>> to him now or even
>>>>> abuse him. Just like Philthy, once you expose them for
>>>>> what they are they
>>>>> just shrivel up and stop posting.
>>>> It is sad to see GOIA swirl ever deeper into his insane
>>>> cesspool.
>>>>
>>>> All the poor old nut has left is Clyde.
>>>>
>>>> I must confess that the temptation to poke it with a
>>>> stick and watch it squirm is very appealing from time
>>>> to time. Although I do tire of the same repetitive
>>>> responses and predictable behaviour.
>>>> Sighhhh.................. It's a bit like punching one
>>>> of those laughing clowns that just stand straight back
>>>> up again and ask for more. The first few times is
>>>> funny but the novelty soon wears off.
>>>>
>>>> Pavlov had his dogs and we have Arny ;-) I should
>>>> mention at least the poor dumb creatures made a
>>>> contribution to science.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers TT
>>> When are you guys going to realise that Arnie likes
>>> being trashed? At night, he takes off his hair shirt and
>>> self flagellates himself to sleep. He is the complete
>>> masochist.
>>>
>>> He considers any come-back as a victory, kind of like
>>> the Black Knight in "The search for the Holy Grail",
>>> arms and legs cut off but still claiming victory.
>>>
>>> You can't win unless you just ignore it.
>>>
>>> Keith
>>
>> Very good advice Keith but we aren't actually talking to
>> him, just about him.
>>
>> Cheers TT
> A good point there Terry, he replied to my message even
> though I was talking to you, I shall, of course, ignore
> him.
>
> Keith

The only group where I will even reply to him is RAO and
then it is only the odd poke with a stick ;-)

Cheers TT

March 23rd 09, 07:55 AM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
...
>
> "TT" > wrote in message
> . au...
>>
>> "keithr" > wrote in message
>> ...
>
>>> When are you guys going to realise that Arnie likes
>>> being trashed? At
>>> night, he takes off his hair shirt and self flagellates
>>> himself to sleep.
>>> He is the complete masochist.
>>>
>>> He considers any come-back as a victory, kind of like
>>> the Black Knight in
>>> "The search for the Holy Grail", arms and legs cut off
>>> but still claiming
>>> victory.
>>>
>>> You can't win unless you just ignore it.
>>>
>>> Keith
>>
>> Very good advice Keith but we aren't actually talking to
>> him, just about
>> him.
>>
>
> I used to take my replies to Arny very seriously,
> especially
> those regarding music, and recording - subjects close to
> my heart. I then realised that he was a complete bonzo,
> and that attempts at rational discussion with him were
> pointless. By not replying to him, I saved quite a con-
> siderable amount of time in a day. I now use this time
> in a much more worthwhile way - I have taken up the
> tenor saxophone:-)
>
> Iain
>
Staring at a blank wall is more productive than a discussion
with Arny and sticking needles in your own eyeballs is also
more enjoyable ;-)

Cheers TT

March 23rd 09, 07:58 AM

"calvin coolidge" > wrote in
message
...
On Mar 22, 6:54?pm, "TT" >
wrote:
> "keithr" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > TT wrote:
> >> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
> >> >
> >> wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Mar 21, 9:15 am, "TT" >
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> Poor old sad Arny is struggling to find people to talk
> >>> to him now or even
> >>> abuse him. Just like Philthy, once you expose them for
> >>> what they are they
> >>> just shrivel up and stop posting.
>
> >> It is sad to see GOIA swirl ever deeper into his insane
> >> cesspool.
>
> >> All the poor old nut has left is Clyde.
>
> >> I must confess that the temptation to poke it with a
> >> stick and watch it squirm is very appealing from time
> >> to
> >> time. ?Although I do tire of the same repetitive
> >> responses and predictable behaviour.
> >> Sighhhh.................. It's a bit like punching one
> >> of
> >> those laughing clowns that just stand straight back up
> >> again and ask for more. ?The first few times is funny
> >> but
> >> the novelty soon wears off.
>
> >> Pavlov had his dogs and we have Arny ;-) ?I should
> >> mention at least the poor dumb creatures made a
> >> contribution to science.
>
> >> Cheers TT
>
> > When are you guys going to realise that Arnie likes
> > being
> > trashed? At night, he takes off his hair shirt and self
> > flagellates himself to sleep. He is the complete
> > masochist.
>
> > He considers any come-back as a victory, kind of like
> > the
> > Black Knight in "The search for the Holy Grail", arms
> > and
> > legs cut off but still claiming victory.
>
> > You can't win unless you just ignore it.
>
> > Keith
>
> Very good advice Keith but we aren't actually talking to
> him, just about him.

Even talking about him isn't interesting anymore. He's just
not doing
anything of interest.

This is now the worry. He is likely to start his attention
seeking antics - again :-( Which will involve some poor
innocent being accused of some heinous crime :-(

Cheers TT

Iain Churches[_2_]

March 23rd 09, 08:52 AM

"TT" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "TT" > wrote in message
>> . au...
>>>
>>> "keithr" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>
>>>> When are you guys going to realise that Arnie likes being trashed? At
>>>> night, he takes off his hair shirt and self flagellates himself to
>>>> sleep.
>>>> He is the complete masochist.
>>>>
>>>> He considers any come-back as a victory, kind of like the Black Knight
>>>> in
>>>> "The search for the Holy Grail", arms and legs cut off but still
>>>> claiming
>>>> victory.
>>>>
>>>> You can't win unless you just ignore it.
>>>>
>>>> Keith
>>>
>>> Very good advice Keith but we aren't actually talking to him, just about
>>> him.
>>>
>>
>> I used to take my replies to Arny very seriously, especially
>> those regarding music, and recording - subjects close to
>> my heart. I then realised that he was a complete bonzo,
>> and that attempts at rational discussion with him were
>> pointless. By not replying to him, I saved quite a con-
>> siderable amount of time in a day. I now use this time
>> in a much more worthwhile way - I have taken up the
>> tenor saxophone:-)
>>
>> Iain
>>
> Staring at a blank wall is more productive than a discussion with Arny and
> sticking needles in your own eyeballs is also more enjoyable ;-)

Hitting low Bb on the tenor saxophone for the
very first time beats 'em all:-)
Iain

Iain Churches[_2_]

March 23rd 09, 08:54 AM

"TT" > wrote in message
...
>
> "calvin coolidge" > wrote in message
> ...
> On Mar 22, 6:54?pm, "TT" > wrote:
>> "keithr" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > TT wrote:
>> >> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" >
>> >> wrote in message
>> ...
>> >> On Mar 21, 9:15 am, "TT" >
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >>> Poor old sad Arny is struggling to find people to talk
>> >>> to him now or even
>> >>> abuse him. Just like Philthy, once you expose them for
>> >>> what they are they
>> >>> just shrivel up and stop posting.
>>
>> >> It is sad to see GOIA swirl ever deeper into his insane
>> >> cesspool.
>>
>> >> All the poor old nut has left is Clyde.
>>
>> >> I must confess that the temptation to poke it with a
>> >> stick and watch it squirm is very appealing from time to
>> >> time. ?Although I do tire of the same repetitive
>> >> responses and predictable behaviour.
>> >> Sighhhh.................. It's a bit like punching one of
>> >> those laughing clowns that just stand straight back up
>> >> again and ask for more. ?The first few times is funny but
>> >> the novelty soon wears off.
>>
>> >> Pavlov had his dogs and we have Arny ;-) ?I should
>> >> mention at least the poor dumb creatures made a
>> >> contribution to science.
>>
>> >> Cheers TT
>>
>> > When are you guys going to realise that Arnie likes being
>> > trashed? At night, he takes off his hair shirt and self
>> > flagellates himself to sleep. He is the complete
>> > masochist.
>>
>> > He considers any come-back as a victory, kind of like the
>> > Black Knight in "The search for the Holy Grail", arms and
>> > legs cut off but still claiming victory.
>>
>> > You can't win unless you just ignore it.
>>
>> > Keith
>>
>> Very good advice Keith but we aren't actually talking to
>> him, just about him.
>
> Even talking about him isn't interesting anymore. He's just not doing
> anything of interest.
>
> This is now the worry. He is likely to start his attention seeking
> antics - again :-( Which will involve some poor innocent being accused of
> some heinous crime :-(
>

If he *really* wanted to get our undivided attention he
could do so easily - by posting a snippet from one
of his >1 000 professional recordings:-) LOL.

Iain

[email protected]

March 23rd 09, 09:54 AM

On 22 Mar, 20:43, keithr > wrote:
> TT wrote:
> > "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in message
> ....
> > On Mar 21, 9:15 am, "TT" > wrote:
>
> >> Poor old sad Arny is struggling to find people to talk to him now or even
> >> abuse him. Just like Philthy, once you expose them for what they are they
> >> just shrivel up and stop posting.
>
> > It is sad to see GOIA swirl ever deeper into his insane cesspool.
>
> > All the poor old nut has left is Clyde.
>
> > I must confess that the temptation to poke it with a stick and watch it
> > squirm is very appealing from time to time. *Although I do tire of the same
> > repetitive responses and predictable behaviour. *Sighhhh...................
> > It's a bit like punching one of those laughing clowns that just stand
> > straight back up again and ask for more. *The first few times is funny but
> > the novelty soon wears off.
>
> > Pavlov had his dogs and we have Arny ;-) *I should mention at least the poor
> > dumb creatures made a contribution to science.
>
> > Cheers TT
>
> When are you guys going to realise that Arnie likes being trashed? At
> night, he takes off his hair shirt and self flagellates himself to
> sleep. He is the complete masochist.
>
> He considers any come-back as a victory, kind of like the Black Knight
> in "The search for the Holy Grail", arms and legs cut off but still
> claiming victory.
>
> You can't win unless you just ignore it.
>
> Keith-

I enjoy chopping of his limbs
and seeing him "win".

[email protected]

March 23rd 09, 10:01 AM

On 22 Mar, 22:07, George M. Middius > wrote:
> TT said:
>
> > > You can't win unless you just ignore [the Krooborg].
> > Very good advice Keith but we aren't actually talking to
> > him, just about him.
>
> Arnii's so stupid, he planted turds in his backyard and hoped a turd
> tree would grow.

All he got was a Japanese hottie
http://www.pileup.com/babyart/blog-images/turd04.jpg

[email protected]

March 23rd 09, 10:04 AM

On 23 Mar, 00:37, calvin coolidge > wrote:
> On Mar 22, 6:54 pm, "TT" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "keithr" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > > TT wrote:
> > >> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" >
> > >> wrote in message
> > ...
> > >> On Mar 21, 9:15 am, "TT" >
> > >> wrote:
>
> > >>> Poor old sad Arny is struggling to find people to talk
> > >>> to him now or even
> > >>> abuse him. Just like Philthy, once you expose them for
> > >>> what they are they
> > >>> just shrivel up and stop posting.
>
> > >> It is sad to see GOIA swirl ever deeper into his insane
> > >> cesspool.
>
> > >> All the poor old nut has left is Clyde.
>
> > >> I must confess that the temptation to poke it with a
> > >> stick and watch it squirm is very appealing from time to
> > >> time. Although I do tire of the same repetitive
> > >> responses and predictable behaviour.
> > >> Sighhhh.................. It's a bit like punching one of
> > >> those laughing clowns that just stand straight back up
> > >> again and ask for more. The first few times is funny but
> > >> the novelty soon wears off.
>
> > >> Pavlov had his dogs and we have Arny ;-) I should
> > >> mention at least the poor dumb creatures made a
> > >> contribution to science.
>
> > >> Cheers TT
>
> > > When are you guys going to realise that Arnie likes being
> > > trashed? At night, he takes off his hair shirt and self
> > > flagellates himself to sleep. He is the complete
> > > masochist.
>
> > > He considers any come-back as a victory, kind of like the
> > > Black Knight in "The search for the Holy Grail", arms and
> > > legs cut off but still claiming victory.
>
> > > You can't win unless you just ignore it.
>
> > > Keith
>
> > Very good advice Keith but we aren't actually talking to
> > him, just about him.
>
> Even talking about him isn't interesting anymore. He's just not doing
> anything of interest.-

But hang on, its about time for another Kroodown

Arny Krueger

March 23rd 09, 11:23 AM

"keithr" > wrote in message

>
>>
> A good point there Terry, he replied to my message even
> though I was talking to you, I shall, of course, ignore
> him.

You're truely delusional if you think that talking about me incessantly is
ignoring me.

Arny Krueger

March 23rd 09, 11:25 AM

"calvin coolidge" > wrote in
message

> Even talking about him isn't interesting anymore. He's
> just not doing anything of interest.

Just ROTFLMAO at a bunch of little kids chatting each other up like little
girls.

Furhtermore, you're a bunch of audio know-nothings who are afraid to expose
your ignorance by actually talking about audio on an audio group.

March 23rd 09, 11:44 AM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
...
>> Even talking about him isn't interesting anymore. He's just not doing
>> anything of interest.
>>
>> This is now the worry. He is likely to start his attention seeking
>> antics - again :-( Which will involve some poor innocent being accused
>> of
>> some heinous crime :-(
>>
>
>
> If he *really* wanted to get our undivided attention he
> could do so easily - by posting a snippet from one
> of his >1 000 professional recordings:-) LOL.
>
> Iain
>
Arny doing that or even telling the truth has more in common with flying
pigs ;-)

Cheers TT

March 23rd 09, 11:47 AM

> wrote in message
...
> On 22 Mar, 22:07, George M. Middius > wrote:
>> TT said:
>>
>> > > You can't win unless you just ignore [the Krooborg].
>> > Very good advice Keith but we aren't actually talking to
>> > him, just about him.
>>
>> Arnii's so stupid, he planted turds in his backyard and hoped a turd
>> tree would grow.
>
> All he got was a Japanese hottie
> http://www.pileup.com/babyart/blog-images/turd04.jpg

Too old and the wrong sex ;-)

Cheers TT

calvin coolidge

March 23rd 09, 02:46 PM

On Mar 23, 3:04ï¿½am, wrote:
> On 23 Mar, 00:37, calvin coolidge > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 22, 6:54 pm, "TT" > wrote:
>
> > > "keithr" > wrote in message
>
> > ...
>
> > > > TT wrote:
> > > >> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" >
> > > >> wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >> On Mar 21, 9:15 am, "TT" >
> > > >> wrote:
>
> > > >>> Poor old sad Arny is struggling to find people to talk
> > > >>> to him now or even
> > > >>> abuse him. Just like Philthy, once you expose them for
> > > >>> what they are they
> > > >>> just shrivel up and stop posting.
>
> > > >> It is sad to see GOIA swirl ever deeper into his insane
> > > >> cesspool.
>
> > > >> All the poor old nut has left is Clyde.
>
> > > >> I must confess that the temptation to poke it with a
> > > >> stick and watch it squirm is very appealing from time to
> > > >> time. Although I do tire of the same repetitive
> > > >> responses and predictable behaviour.
> > > >> Sighhhh.................. It's a bit like punching one of
> > > >> those laughing clowns that just stand straight back up
> > > >> again and ask for more. The first few times is funny but
> > > >> the novelty soon wears off.
>
> > > >> Pavlov had his dogs and we have Arny ;-) I should
> > > >> mention at least the poor dumb creatures made a
> > > >> contribution to science.
>
> > > >> Cheers TT
>
> > > > When are you guys going to realise that Arnie likes being
> > > > trashed? At night, he takes off his hair shirt and self
> > > > flagellates himself to sleep. He is the complete
> > > > masochist.
>
> > > > He considers any come-back as a victory, kind of like the
> > > > Black Knight in "The search for the Holy Grail", arms and
> > > > legs cut off but still claiming victory.
>
> > > > You can't win unless you just ignore it.
>
> > > > Keith
>
> > > Very good advice Keith but we aren't actually talking to
> > > him, just about him.
>
> > Even talking about him isn't interesting anymore. He's just not doing
> > anything of interest.-
>
> But hang on, its about time for another Kroodown.

ZZZ.

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!

March 23rd 09, 10:10 PM

On Mar 23, 10:17*am, George M. Middius >
wrote:
> Sacky said:
>
> > > Even talking about him isn't interesting anymore. He's just not doing
> > > anything of interest.-
>
> > But hang on, its about time for another Kroodown
>
> My bet is on another round of ridiculous accusations against all and
> sundry. Most likely is a new konspiracy theory, because by now even
> Turdborg is getting tired of his "posse" fantasy.

Poor GOIA. His trolls aren't effective and he's being shunned by the
group that gives his life its meaning.

I hope he doesn't do anything rash.

George M. Middius[_4_]

March 23rd 09, 10:59 PM

Shhhh! said:

> > My bet is on another round of ridiculous accusations against all and
> > sundry. Most likely is a new konspiracy theory, because by now even
> > Turdborg is getting tired of his "posse" fantasy.
>
> Poor GOIA. His trolls aren't effective and he's being shunned by the
> group that gives his life its meaning.
> I hope he doesn't do anything rash.

Why? Are Audio 'Borgs resistant to cortisone? ;-)

roughplanet[_2_]

March 23rd 09, 11:41 PM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
...

"TT" > wrote in message
. au...

"keithr" > wrote in message
...

>>> When are you guys going to realise that Arnie likes being trashed? At
>>> night, he takes off his hair shirt and self flagellates himself to
>>> sleep.
>>> He is the complete masochist.
>>>
>>> He considers any come-back as a victory, kind of like the Black Knight
>>> in
>>> "The search for the Holy Grail", arms and legs cut off but still
>>> claiming
>>> victory.
>>>
>>> You can't win unless you just ignore it.

>> Very good advice Keith but we aren't actually talking to him, just about
>> him.

> I used to take my replies to Arny very seriously, especially
> those regarding music, and recording - subjects close to
> my heart. I then realised that he was a complete bonzo,
> and that attempts at rational discussion with him were
> pointless. By not replying to him, I saved quite a con-
> siderable amount of time in a day. I now use this time
> in a much more worthwhile way - I have taken up the
> tenor saxophone:-)

Hi Iain.

Here's a joke for you....

Q. What's the difference between a saxophone & a macaw?

A. One's noisy, loud & raucous & the other's a bird.

BWAAAAAAAAAAAh!!!!

I'm glad I'm not listening to you practice. I hope for your wife's sake
you are doing it in the bunker :-).

Regards,

Laurie

roughplanet[_2_]

March 23rd 09, 11:44 PM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
...

"TT" > wrote in message
...

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
...

"keithr" > wrote in message
...

>>>>> When are you guys going to realise that Arnie likes being trashed? At
>>>>> night, he takes off his hair shirt and self flagellates himself to
>>>>> sleep. He is the complete masochist.
>>>>>
>>>>> He considers any come-back as a victory, kind of like the Black Knight
>>>>> in "The search for the Holy Grail", arms and legs cut off but still
>>>>> claiming
>>>>> victory.
>>>>>
>>>>> You can't win unless you just ignore it.

>>>> Very good advice Keith but we aren't actually talking to him, just
>>>> about
>>>> him.

>>> I used to take my replies to Arny very seriously, especially
>>> those regarding music, and recording - subjects close to
>>> my heart. I then realised that he was a complete bonzo,
>>> and that attempts at rational discussion with him were
>>> pointless. By not replying to him, I saved quite a con-
>>> siderable amount of time in a day. I now use this time
>>> in a much more worthwhile way - I have taken up the
>>> tenor saxophone:-)

>> Staring at a blank wall is more productive than a discussion with Arny
>> and
>> sticking needles in your own eyeballs is also more enjoyable ;-)

> Hitting low Bb on the tenor saxophone for the very first time beats 'em
> all:-)

Hitting Bb on the soprano sax is REALLY something :-).

ruff

Iain Churches[_2_]

March 24th 09, 10:42 AM

"roughplanet" > wrote in message
> Hi Iain.
>
> Here's a joke for you....
>
> Q. What's the difference between a saxophone & a macaw?
>
> A. One's noisy, loud & raucous & the other's a bird.
>

LOL. Good joke Lauri:-) I thought it was only bass
players who were subject to musical jokes. Like the
one about a band playing a a very prestigious gig. The
guitar player takes a sneak preview at the audience, and
thinks to himself, "Full house. Our share of the ticket money
will be the best ever". The drummer looks out, and says
to himself, "There's a lot of good looking chicks out there
tonight. I'm sure to pull." The bass player peeps through
the curtain and says to himself, "E A E A G G A

>I'm glad I'm not listening to you practice. I hope for your wife's sake
> you are doing it in the bunker :-).

I have a separate music room downstairs in the basement,
where I can play music and practice as loud as I like without
disturbing anyone.

My objective is a "soft breathy tone" (like Ben Webster)
One has to be disciplined, and work hard on
embouchure, playing long notes and correcting intonation
as you go. I am already past the squeaky stage, and am
concetrating on chromatic scales in the first two
octaves. Sub tones, middle G down to low Bb are
sometimes difficult. It's down to practice and more
practice. One player told me: "Your sax is going to
sound like an industrial accident for the first few weeks
as your lip muscles get up to speed.It takes a while for the
muscles to toughen, and because you are biting your
lower lip between the reed and your teeth,
practice each day cannot be in long stints

I do short sessions of five minutes approx.
Yesterday I managed a scale in the second octave,
the although I cannot play beyond it - yet.

Cheers
Iain

roughplanet[_2_]

March 24th 09, 02:04 PM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
...

"roughplanet" > wrote in message

>> Hi Iain.
>>
>> Here's a joke for you....
>>
>> Q. What's the difference between a saxophone & a macaw?
>>
>> A. One's noisy, loud & raucous & the other's a bird.

> LOL. Good joke Lauri:-) I thought it was only bass
> players who were subject to musical jokes. Like the
> one about a band playing a a very prestigious gig. The
> guitar player takes a sneak preview at the audience, and
> thinks to himself, "Full house. Our share of the ticket money
> will be the best ever". The drummer looks out, and says
> to himself, "There's a lot of good looking chicks out there
> tonight. I'm sure to pull." The bass player peeps through
> the curtain and says to himself, "E A E A G G A

>>I'm glad I'm not listening to you practice. I hope for your wife's sake
>> you are doing it in the bunker :-).

> I have a separate music room downstairs in the basement,
> where I can play music and practice as loud as I like without
> disturbing anyone.
>
> My objective is a "soft breathy tone" (like Ben Webster)
> One has to be disciplined, and work hard on
> embouchure, playing long notes and correcting intonation
> as you go. I am already past the squeaky stage, and am
> concetrating on chromatic scales in the first two
> octaves. Sub tones, middle G down to low Bb are
> sometimes difficult. It's down to practice and more
> practice. One player told me: "Your sax is going to
> sound like an industrial accident for the first few weeks
> as your lip muscles get up to speed.It takes a while for the
> muscles to toughen, and because you are biting your
> lower lip between the reed and your teeth,
> practice each day cannot be in long stints
>
> I do short sessions of five minutes approx.
> Yesterday I managed a scale in the second octave,
> the although I cannot play beyond it - yet.

I really like Ben Webster's tonality. It distinguishes him from all other
sax players. Have you heard the album Soulmates (Riverside (Stereo) OJC-109
(RLP-9476) he made with Joe Zawinul, keyboard player extraordinaire in
Cannonball Adderley's earlier bands & originator of Weather Report?

Although there is a generation between them, at one stage they shared an
apartment for a few months and obviously have a great deal of respect for
each other's ability. It was here they discovered their fondness for older
ballads, and so, adding a few 'trusted' sidemen like Sam Jones, Philly Joe
Jones & Richard Davis, decided to record an album together.

'Soulmates' was the result & is one of my favourites; so much so that I have
burned it onto a CD as well as a MD too. I don't know whether the LP has
been re-released but I wouldn't be surprised if it has. Check it out.

ruff

Iain Churches[_2_]

March 24th 09, 02:30 PM

"roughplanet" > wrote in message
...

> I really like Ben Webster's tonality.

I too. He was brilliant. It's a small consolation to
ne that he too, was once at the stage I am at now:-)

My favourite tenor player was actually Paul Gonsalves
(Duke Ellington Orchestra) I like him for for his extraordinary
sense of adventure more than for his tone.

> It distinguishes him from all other
> sax players. Have you heard the album Soulmates (Riverside (Stereo)
> OJC-109 (RLP-9476) he made with Joe Zawinul, keyboard player
> extraordinaire in Cannonball Adderley's earlier bands & originator of
> Weather Report?

No.I don't know that album. I am going into town tomorrow
so will see if I can find it. Thanks for the recommendation
>
> Although there is a generation between them, at one stage they shared an
> apartment for a few months and obviously have a great deal of respect for
> each other's ability. It was here they discovered their fondness for older
> ballads, and so, adding a few 'trusted' sidemen like Sam Jones, Philly Joe
> Jones & Richard Davis, decided to record an album together.

Those 30's a 40's titles are what I am interested in playing.

> 'Soulmates' was the result & is one of my favourites; so much so that I
> have burned it onto a CD as well as a MD too. I don't know whether the LP
> has been re-released but I wouldn't be surprised if it has. Check it out.
>
Yes. It seems to be available on CD.

Cheers
Iain

KeithR

March 24th 09, 09:24 PM

TT wrote:
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> ...
>>> Even talking about him isn't interesting anymore. He's just not doing
>>> anything of interest.
>>>
>>> This is now the worry. He is likely to start his attention seeking
>>> antics - again :-( Which will involve some poor innocent being accused
>>> of
>>> some heinous crime :-(
>>>
>>
>> If he *really* wanted to get our undivided attention he
>> could do so easily - by posting a snippet from one
>> of his >1 000 professional recordings:-) LOL.
>>
>> Iain
>>
> Arny doing that or even telling the truth has more in common with flying
> pigs ;-)
>
> Cheers TT
>

Has he been recording Pink Floyd then?

March 24th 09, 09:45 PM

"roughplanet" > wrote in message
...
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> "roughplanet" > wrote in message
>
>>> Hi Iain.
>>>
>>> Here's a joke for you....
>>>
>>> Q. What's the difference between a saxophone & a macaw?
>>>
>>> A. One's noisy, loud & raucous & the other's a bird.
>
>> LOL. Good joke Lauri:-) I thought it was only bass
>> players who were subject to musical jokes. Like the
>> one about a band playing a a very prestigious gig. The
>> guitar player takes a sneak preview at the audience, and
>> thinks to himself, "Full house. Our share of the ticket money
>> will be the best ever". The drummer looks out, and says
>> to himself, "There's a lot of good looking chicks out there
>> tonight. I'm sure to pull." The bass player peeps through
>> the curtain and says to himself, "E A E A G G A
>
>>>I'm glad I'm not listening to you practice. I hope for your wife's sake
>>> you are doing it in the bunker :-).
>
>> I have a separate music room downstairs in the basement,
>> where I can play music and practice as loud as I like without
>> disturbing anyone.
>>
>> My objective is a "soft breathy tone" (like Ben Webster)
>> One has to be disciplined, and work hard on
>> embouchure, playing long notes and correcting intonation
>> as you go. I am already past the squeaky stage, and am
>> concetrating on chromatic scales in the first two
>> octaves. Sub tones, middle G down to low Bb are
>> sometimes difficult. It's down to practice and more
>> practice. One player told me: "Your sax is going to
>> sound like an industrial accident for the first few weeks
>> as your lip muscles get up to speed.It takes a while for the
>> muscles to toughen, and because you are biting your
>> lower lip between the reed and your teeth,
>> practice each day cannot be in long stints
>>
>> I do short sessions of five minutes approx.
>> Yesterday I managed a scale in the second octave,
>> the although I cannot play beyond it - yet.
>
> I really like Ben Webster's tonality. It distinguishes him from all other
> sax players. Have you heard the album Soulmates (Riverside (Stereo)
> OJC-109 (RLP-9476) he made with Joe Zawinul, keyboard player
> extraordinaire in Cannonball Adderley's earlier bands & originator of
> Weather Report?
>
> Although there is a generation between them, at one stage they shared an
> apartment for a few months and obviously have a great deal of respect for
> each other's ability. It was here they discovered their fondness for older
> ballads, and so, adding a few 'trusted' sidemen like Sam Jones, Philly Joe
> Jones & Richard Davis, decided to record an album together.
>
> 'Soulmates' was the result & is one of my favourites; so much so that I
> have burned it onto a CD as well as a MD too. I don't know whether the LP
> has been re-released but I wouldn't be surprised if it has. Check it out.
>
> ruff
Hi Ruff, here is the CD
http://www.cdwow.com/search?query=webster+soulmates&category=music now there
are two versions of it. I don't suppose you (or anyone else) can tell me
which is the better or are they identical?

I have some Weather Report and I rather like them so I am looking for more
so this tip of yours sounds rather good.

Cheers TT

March 24th 09, 10:02 PM

"keithr" > wrote in message
...
> TT wrote:
>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>> Even talking about him isn't interesting anymore. He's just not doing
>>>> anything of interest.
>>>>
>>>> This is now the worry. He is likely to start his attention seeking
>>>> antics - again :-( Which will involve some poor innocent being accused
>>>> of
>>>> some heinous crime :-(
>>>>
>>>
>>> If he *really* wanted to get our undivided attention he
>>> could do so easily - by posting a snippet from one
>>> of his >1 000 professional recordings:-) LOL.
>>>
>>> Iain
>>>
>> Arny doing that or even telling the truth has more in common with flying
>> pigs ;-)
>>
>> Cheers TT
>
> Has he been recording Pink Floyd then?

That was very good Keith :-)) BTW 2 years ago when Roger Waters played here
in Perth he had his big blow-up Pig balloon at the concert and it somehow
got let loose. We all thought it was part of the show but it made the
papers next day as it wandered close to the airport flight path. They
weren't sure if it just wanted to return to the wild or wether it was just
some stoned roadies not hanging on to the ropes ;-)

Cheers TT

MiNe 109

March 24th 09, 10:12 PM

In article >,
"TT" > wrote:

> "keithr" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>>> Even talking about him isn't interesting anymore. He's just not doing
> >>>> anything of interest.
> >>>>
> >>>> This is now the worry. He is likely to start his attention seeking
> >>>> antics - again :-( Which will involve some poor innocent being accused
> >>>> of
> >>>> some heinous crime :-(
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> If he *really* wanted to get our undivided attention he
> >>> could do so easily - by posting a snippet from one
> >>> of his >1 000 professional recordings:-) LOL.
> >>>
> >>> Iain
> >>> > > TT wrote:

> >> Arny doing that or even telling the truth has more in common with flying
> >> pigs ;-)
> >>
> >> Cheers TT
> >
> > Has he been recording Pink Floyd then?
>
> That was very good Keith :-)) BTW 2 years ago when Roger Waters played here
> in Perth he had his big blow-up Pig balloon at the concert and it somehow
> got let loose. We all thought it was part of the show but it made the
> papers next day as it wandered close to the airport flight path. They
> weren't sure if it just wanted to return to the wild or wether it was just
> some stoned roadies not hanging on to the ropes ;-)

A similar thing happened at Coachella festival last year.

Stephen

KeithR

March 25th 09, 02:27 AM

MiNe 109 wrote:
> In article >,
> "TT" > wrote:
>
>> "keithr" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>> Even talking about him isn't interesting anymore. He's just not doing
>>>>>> anything of interest.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is now the worry. He is likely to start his attention seeking
>>>>>> antics - again :-( Which will involve some poor innocent being accused
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> some heinous crime :-(
>>>>>>
>>>>> If he *really* wanted to get our undivided attention he
>>>>> could do so easily - by posting a snippet from one
>>>>> of his >1 000 professional recordings:-) LOL.
>>>>>
>>>>> Iain
>>>>>>> TT wrote:
>
>>>> Arny doing that or even telling the truth has more in common with flying
>>>> pigs ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Cheers TT
>>> Has he been recording Pink Floyd then?
>> That was very good Keith :-)) BTW 2 years ago when Roger Waters played here
>> in Perth he had his big blow-up Pig balloon at the concert and it somehow
>> got let loose. We all thought it was part of the show but it made the
>> papers next day as it wandered close to the airport flight path. They
>> weren't sure if it just wanted to return to the wild or wether it was just
>> some stoned roadies not hanging on to the ropes ;-)
>
> A similar thing happened at Coachella festival last year.
>
> Stephen

It seems to make a habit of it, it even happened on the original photo
shoot for the album cover.

Keith

March 25th 09, 02:50 AM

"keithr" > wrote in message
...
> MiNe 109 wrote:
>> In article
>> >,
>> "TT" > wrote:
>>
>>> "keithr" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> Even talking about him isn't interesting anymore.
>>>>>>> He's just not doing
>>>>>>> anything of interest.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is now the worry. He is likely to start his
>>>>>>> attention seeking
>>>>>>> antics - again :-( Which will involve some poor
>>>>>>> innocent being accused of
>>>>>>> some heinous crime :-(
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> If he *really* wanted to get our undivided attention
>>>>>> he
>>>>>> could do so easily - by posting a snippet from one
>>>>>> of his >1 000 professional recordings:-) LOL.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Iain
>>>>>>>> TT wrote:
>>
>>>>> Arny doing that or even telling the truth has more in
>>>>> common with flying pigs ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers TT
>>>> Has he been recording Pink Floyd then?
>>> That was very good Keith :-)) BTW 2 years ago when
>>> Roger Waters played here in Perth he had his big blow-up
>>> Pig balloon at the concert and it somehow got let loose.
>>> We all thought it was part of the show but it made the
>>> papers next day as it wandered close to the airport
>>> flight path. They weren't sure if it just wanted to
>>> return to the wild or wether it was just some stoned
>>> roadies not hanging on to the ropes ;-)
>>
>> A similar thing happened at Coachella festival last year.
>>
>> Stephen
>
> It seems to make a habit of it, it even happened on the
> original photo shoot for the album cover.
>
> Keith

That's why everyone thought it was part of the show. Not an
"Oooops.... here we go again."

Cheers TT

roughplanet[_2_]

March 25th 09, 02:52 AM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
...

"roughplanet" > wrote in message
...

>> I really like Ben Webster's tonality.

> I too. He was brilliant. It's a small consolation to
> ne that he too, was once at the stage I am at now:-)

> My favourite tenor player was actually Paul Gonsalves
> (Duke Ellington Orchestra) I like him for for his extraordinary
> sense of adventure more than for his tone.

I have so many 'favourite' tenor players it's silly. You really can't go
past Bird, but there is John Coltrane, Lester Young, Paul Desmond, Sonny
Rollins, Sonny Stitt, Stan Getz, Zoot Sims, Charles Lloyd (now there's a
player) Tomasz Stanko, Jan Garbarek, Hell the list is endless & I've left
most of them out.

Believe it or not Iain I can identify almost every one of them as they all
sound so different. Gosh, I just love the sax. You must have that Swedish
recording entitled 'Antiphone Blues' by Arne Domnerus (another fine sax
player) & Gustaf Sjokvist playing the organ of Spanga Church in Sweden in
1974. If you haven't, it's an ABSOLUTE MUST and was recently released on
SACD.

I have the original LP & to me, it's priceless, and is another I have
transferred to MD for safekeeping.

Good listening (and now, playing).

>> It distinguishes him from all other sax players. Have you heard the album
>> Soulmates (Riverside (Stereo) OJC-109 (RLP-9476) he made with Joe
>> Zawinul, keyboard player extraordinaire in Cannonball Adderley's earlier
>> bands & originator of Weather Report?

> No.I don't know that album. I am going into town tomorrow
> so will see if I can find it. Thanks for the recommendation

>> Although there is a generation between them, at one stage they shared an
>> apartment for a few months and obviously have a great deal of respect for
>> each other's ability. It was here they discovered their fondness for
>> older
>> ballads, and so, adding a few 'trusted' sidemen like Sam Jones, Philly
>> Joe
>> Jones & Richard Davis, decided to record an album together.

> Those 30's a 40's titles are what I am interested in playing.

>> 'Soulmates' was the result & is one of my favourites; so much so that I
>> have burned it onto a CD as well as a MD too. I don't know whether the LP
>> has been re-released but I wouldn't be surprised if it has. Check it out.

> Yes. It seems to be available on CD.

Good listening (and now, playing).

ruff

roughplanet[_2_]

March 25th 09, 03:08 AM

"TT" > wrote in message
. au...

"roughplanet" > wrote in message
...

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
...

>>>> Hi Iain.
>>>>
>>>> Here's a joke for you....
>>>>
>>>> Q. What's the difference between a saxophone & a macaw?
>>>>
>>>> A. One's noisy, loud & raucous & the other's a bird.

>>> LOL. Good joke Lauri:-) I thought it was only bass
>>> players who were subject to musical jokes. Like the
>>> one about a band playing a a very prestigious gig. The
>>> guitar player takes a sneak preview at the audience, and
>>> thinks to himself, "Full house. Our share of the ticket money
>>> will be the best ever". The drummer looks out, and says
>>> to himself, "There's a lot of good looking chicks out there
>>> tonight. I'm sure to pull." The bass player peeps through
>>> the curtain and says to himself, "E A E A G G A

>>>>I'm glad I'm not listening to you practice. I hope for your wife's sake
>>>> you are doing it in the bunker :-).

>>> I have a separate music room downstairs in the basement,
>>> where I can play music and practice as loud as I like without
>>> disturbing anyone.
>>> My objective is a "soft breathy tone" (like Ben Webster)
>>> One has to be disciplined, and work hard on
>>> embouchure, playing long notes and correcting intonation
>>> as you go. I am already past the squeaky stage, and am
>>> concetrating on chromatic scales in the first two
>>> octaves. Sub tones, middle G down to low Bb are
>>> sometimes difficult. It's down to practice and more
>>> practice. One player told me: "Your sax is going to
>>> sound like an industrial accident for the first few weeks
>>> as your lip muscles get up to speed.It takes a while for the
>>> muscles to toughen, and because you are biting your
>>> lower lip between the reed and your teeth,
>>> practice each day cannot be in long stints
>>>
>>> I do short sessions of five minutes approx.
>>> Yesterday I managed a scale in the second octave,
>>> the although I cannot play beyond it - yet.

>> I really like Ben Webster's tonality. It distinguishes him from all other
>> sax players. Have you heard the album Soulmates (Riverside (Stereo)
>> OJC-109 (RLP-9476) he made with Joe Zawinul, keyboard player
>> extraordinaire in Cannonball Adderley's earlier bands & originator of
>> Weather Report?
>>
>> Although there is a generation between them, at one stage they shared an
>> apartment for a few months and obviously have a great deal of respect for
>> each other's ability. It was here they discovered their fondness for
>> older ballads, and so, adding a few 'trusted' sidemen like Sam Jones,
>> Philly Joe Jones & Richard Davis, decided to record an album together.
>>
>> 'Soulmates' was the result & is one of my favourites; so much so that I
>> have burned it onto a CD as well as a MD too. I don't know whether the LP
>> has been re-released but I wouldn't be surprised if it has. Check it out.

> Hi Ruff, here is the CD
> http://www.cdwow.com/search?query=webster+soulmates&category=music now
> there are two versions of it. I don't suppose you (or anyone else) can
> tell me which is the better or are they identical?

Dunno TT as I only have the LP and it's BLOODY GREAT!!!!!

> I have some Weather Report and I rather like them so I am looking for more
> so this tip of yours sounds rather good.

There are at least a dozen Weather report CD's available, but try & stay
with the ones on which Jaco Pastorius is playing. You know I 'celebrate' his
death (September 21 1987) every year, play a few of his recordings (I have
22 of them) & cry a lot.

I loved the guy - he was the most talented bass player I have ever heard &
like me, suffered from bipolar disorder too. Some arsehole bouncer (the
owner of the night club?) in Ft. Lauderdale beat him to death after he
abused him for not admitting him whilst in a drunken stupor.
He was 35 years old & was inducted into Downbeat's Hall of fame postumously
in 1988. There has only ever been 3 other bass players; Ray Brown (the best
of all IMO) Charlie Mingus & Milt Hinton.

Geez I miss that guy.

ruff :-(

Iain Churches[_2_]

March 25th 09, 08:19 AM

"roughplanet" > wrote in message
...
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> "roughplanet" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>> I really like Ben Webster's tonality.
>
>> I too. He was brilliant. It's a small consolation to
>> ne that he too, was once at the stage I am at now:-)
>
>> My favourite tenor player was actually Paul Gonsalves
>> (Duke Ellington Orchestra) I like him for for his extraordinary
>> sense of adventure more than for his tone.
>
> I have so many 'favourite' tenor players it's silly. You really can't go
> past Bird, but there is John Coltrane, Lester Young, Paul Desmond, Sonny
> Rollins, Sonny Stitt, Stan Getz, Zoot Sims, Charles Lloyd (now there's a
> player) Tomasz Stanko, Jan Garbarek, Hell the list is endless & I've left
> most of them out.
>
> Believe it or not Iain I can identify almost every one of them as they all
> sound so different.

That's one of the most fascinating aspects. All the good
players seem to be able to impose their sonic signature
upon their sound, which makes them instantly recognisable.
Just as with guitars, where instruments by different makers
have a sound of their own, and strings and tuning have a marked
influence, the choice of saxophone, reed, mouthpiece, embouchure
all contribute to a personal level.

Interestingly when players work in a section, they play down
their own particlar identifiers, to blend with the style of the
section leader, the first alto. I was once privileged to sit in
on a rehearsal of the Duke Ellington orchestra. Ellington was
constantly making changes to composition and arrangements,
and so there were daily rehearsals, both section by section
and the whole band. The saxophones sat in a circle, with
good eye contact and listened with great care to Johnny Hodges.
Usually, when the also had the lead, the other players
used little or no vibrato except on longer notes, so that there could
be no vibrato clash with the top alto.

>Gosh, I just love the sax. You must have that Swedish
> recording entitled 'Antiphone Blues' by Arne Domnerus (another fine sax
> player) & Gustaf Sjokvist playing the organ of Spanga Church in Sweden in
> 1974. If you haven't, it's an ABSOLUTE MUST and was recently released on
> SACD.

Yes I am familiar with the work of Domnerus. The Swedes called him
"Dompan" . I heard him play some years ago at Stampen (The Pawn
Shop) in Stockholm. He was a legend having played with Bird in the
50s. He died just recently.

I will get the CD. Thanks for the recommendation,
By the way, the Ben Webster recording you mentioned
"Soulmates" with Joe Zawinul does not seem to be
available in its entirety on CD. But three of the titles
"Like Somehe in Love", "Soulmates" and "Trav'lin' Light"
(which I am listening to now) are included in a very
good compilation which I bought yesterday.

The CD is called Centennial Celebration: Ben Webster,
and includes amongst other titles "Have You Met Miss Jones"
with Art Tatum and two intimate live recordings of "Caravan"
and "Georgia on My Mind" What a sound!

But, you are right, there are so many brilliant players.
I recently came across Wardell Gray. He was a great
player, whose career was cut short by his being murdered
at the age of 34. His body was found in the desert near
Las Vegas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wardell_Gray

Take a listen to him at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dphobCBKXVk

> Good listening (and now, playing).

Thanks. I played Soulmates to my good lady.
She said "Brilliant". Now you have a *real"*
challenge!

Cheers
Iain

[email protected]

March 25th 09, 12:33 PM

On 24 Mar, 23:08, "roughplanet" > wrote:

>
> > I have some Weather Report and I rather like them so I am looking for more
> > so this tip of yours sounds rather good.
>
> There are at least a dozen Weather report CD's available, but try & stay
> with the ones on which Jaco Pastorius is playing. You know I 'celebrate' his
> death (September 21 1987) every year, play a few of his recordings (I have
> 22 of them) & cry a lot.
>
> I loved the guy - he was the most talented bass player I have ever heard &
> like me, suffered from bipolar disorder too. Some arsehole bouncer (the
> owner of the night club?) in Ft. Lauderdale beat him to death after he
> abused him for not admitting him whilst in a drunken stupor.
> He was 35 years old & was inducted into Downbeat's Hall of fame postumously
> in 1988. There has only ever been 3 other bass players; Ray Brown (the best
> of all *IMO) Charlie Mingus & Milt Hinton.
>
> Geez I miss that guy.
>

i have a Weather report DVD form '75 Montreaux, I think,
and his playing was fantastic, wonderful tone and feel.
However, I don't want to knock Viroslav Mitous,
the other WR basist, who I also enjoy.

My top three Bassists are Dunn, Bruce and Pastorius

roughplanet[_2_]

March 25th 09, 09:38 PM

> wrote in message
...

On 24 Mar, 23:08, "roughplanet" > wrote:

> > I have some Weather Report and I rather like them so I am looking for
> > more
> > so this tip of yours sounds rather good.

> There are at least a dozen Weather report CD's available, but try & stay
> with the ones on which Jaco Pastorius is playing. You know I 'celebrate'
> his
> death (September 21 1987) every year, play a few of his recordings (I have
> 22 of them) & cry a lot.
>
> I loved the guy - he was the most talented bass player I have ever heard &
> like me, suffered from bipolar disorder too. Some arsehole bouncer (the
> owner of the night club?) in Ft. Lauderdale beat him to death after he
> abused him for not admitting him whilst in a drunken stupor.
> He was 35 years old & was inducted into Downbeat's Hall of fame
> postumously
> in 1988. There has only ever been 3 other bass players; Ray Brown (the
> best
> of all IMO) Charlie Mingus & Milt Hinton.
>
> Geez I miss that guy.

Ihave a Weather report DVD form '75 Montreaux, I think,
and his playing was fantastic, wonderful tone and feel.
However, I don't want to knock Viroslav Mitous,
the other WR basist, who I also enjoy.

I think you mean Miroslav Vitous, no? He & George Mraz were a pair of Czech
bass players who studied under teachers from the Czech Philharmonic. They
emigrated to the US just before the Bolshies invaded Czechoslovakia. Both
are very acomplished bass players. Vitous is more adventurous & has
developed his own technique (walking bass lines, rhythms etc.) with those
bloody huge hands of his & the biggest double bass I have ever seen (it's
about 7' high).

Mraz is more mainstream and spends a good deal of his time touring Japan &
playing with musicians there. Have a listen to the Three Blind Mice XRCD
'Alone Together' that he made with Masaru Imada. They darted into a
recording studio close to the airport & between a concert & George's plane
leaving in 2 hours, put down this wonderful album.

Enjoy.

ruff