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View Full Version : The question 2pid is too dumb to answer


Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!
March 15th 09, 05:37 PM
The military budget in the US is over one trillion dollars per year.

For the 2009 fiscal year, the base budget rose to US$515.4 billion.
Adding emergency discretionary spending and supplemental spending
brings the sum to US$651.2 billion.[1] This does not include many
military-related items that are outside of the Defense Department
budget, such as nuclear weapons research, maintenance and production
(about $9.3 billion, which is in the Department of Energy budget),
Veterans Affairs (about $33.2 billion), interest on debt incurred in
past wars, or the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (which are largely
funded through extra-budgetary supplements, about $170 billion in
2007). As of 2009, the United States government is spending about $1
trillion annually on defense-related purposes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States

This does not include homeland defense spending and the aforementioned
DOE spending on nukes. Let's see what one republican uses as a
justification for continued spending (all quotes from the above site):

Republican historian Robert Kagan has argued that 2009 is not the time
to cut defense spending, relating such spending to jobs and support
for allies: "A reduction in defense spending this year would unnerve
American allies and undercut efforts to gain greater cooperation.
There is already a sense around the world...that the United States is
in terminal decline. Many fear that the economic crisis will cause the
United States to pull back from overseas commitments. The announcement
of a defense cutback would be taken by the world as evidence that the
American retreat has begun."

Now let's look at 2pid's favorite Dem and see what he has to say:

In February 2009, Congressman Barney Frank, D-Mass., called for a
reduction in the defense budget: "The math is compelling: if we do not
make reductions approximating 25 percent of the military budget
starting fairly soon, it will be impossible to continue to fund an
adequate level of domestic activity even with a repeal of Bush's tax
cuts for the very wealthy. I am working with a variety of thoughtful
analysts to show how we can make very substantial cuts in the military
budget without in any way diminishing the security we need...
[American] well-being is far more endangered by a proposal for
substantial reductions in Medicare, Social Security or other important
domestic areas than it would be by canceling weapons systems that have
no justification from any threat we are likely to face."

And finally let's see what Robert Gates, SECDEF, has to say:

U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates wrote in January 2009 that the
U.S. should adjust its priorities and spending to address the changing
nature of threats in the world: "What all these potential adversaries
-- from terrorist cells to rogue nations to rising powers -- have in
common is that they have learned that it is unwise to confront the
United States directly on conventional military terms. The United
States cannot take its current dominance for granted and needs to
invest in the programs, platforms, and personnel that will ensure that
dominance's persistence. But it is also important to keep some
perspective. As much as the U.S. Navy has shrunk since the end of the
Cold War, for example, in terms of tonnage, its battle fleet is still
larger than the next 13 navies combined -- and 11 of those 13 navies
are U.S. allies or partners."

With all of this overwhelming evidence and the thoughtful statements
of senior leaders at the federal level, is it any wonder that 2pid has
a 'differing POV' (and fails, once again, to see or understand the
obvious)?

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!
March 16th 09, 05:06 AM
On Mar 15, 3:54*pm, wrote:
> *****ter, your analysis ignores the following:
>
> *1) Barney Frank is a pervert, sodomite and loser and nothing he says
> should be taken seriously except as an indicator of how debased our
> society has become in allowing someone who runs a call boy business
> out of his apartment to serve in the national legislature.

Well you sure showed him! Now why don't you address what he said.

Your ad hominems remind me of 2pid. LoL.

> *2) The United States is generally perceived as a failing empire in
> terminal decline because it IS a failing empire in terminal decline.
> Empires always fail, the only variable is how long they stay in power,
> and once the decline begins the fall is inevitable.

We actually agree here. Anybody who's read Gibbons would know this.

> *3) Our options are to simply accept the inevitable or to do what no
> republic-turned-empire has ever done and transition back to an
> independent republic. That may or may not even be possible, but it
> seems our only alternative to a massive implosion which almost
> certainly would split the American nation itself into several parts
> and result in the end of any world importance to any major part of
> it.

Did you see this, 2pid? Bratzu says we have an empire just like the
Brits and French did. Do you agree with Bratzi, 2pid, or do you
'think' there are people in the world who just "hate our freedom"?
LoL.

> *4) National defense is an essential and Constitution-ordered part of
> the function of the federal government whereas Social Security,
> Medicare, AFDC and the rest are not. The Founding Fathers never
> intended such things. The nation functioned quite well without them
> for a hundred years.

And once again, you entirely avoid discussing the point, Bratzi: where
would you cut the defense budget?

Nobody is arguing there should not be a defense budget. Or aren't you
bright enough to figure that one out? ;-)

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!
March 16th 09, 09:28 AM
On Mar 16, 1:54*am, wrote:

> > Nobody is arguing there should not be a defense budget. Or aren't you
> > bright enough to figure that one out? ;-)
>
> *There certainly needs to be a defense budget and even you would not
> eliminate it entirely.

"Even me"? LOL!

I'd far prefer a defense budget based on reality and on projected
adversaries.

> *I would not spend the kind of money the F-22 and F-35 programs
> require, but I would see that a cost effective replacement aircraft
> was designed and built. Several structural changes to US procurement
> policies need to be made to do that. Neither the GOP nor the Dems have
> any significant will to do that.

That's because it's all based on earmarks and pork. That's the point
I've tried to make 2pid see, but he is (of course) too stupid.

The F-16 and F-15 are entirely adequate to current and projected
needs. They are solid upgradeable airframes.

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!
March 17th 09, 03:46 AM
On Mar 16, 12:23*pm, wrote:
> > > *I would not spend the kind of money the F-22 and F-35 programs
> > > require, but I would see that a cost effective replacement aircraft
> > > was designed and built. Several structural changes to US procurement
> > > policies need to be made to do that. Neither the GOP nor the Dems have
> > > any significant will to do that.
>
> > That's because it's all based on earmarks and pork. That's the point
> > I've tried to make 2pid see, but he is (of course) too stupid.
>
> > The F-16 and F-15 are entirely adequate to current and projected
> > needs. They are solid upgradeable airframes.
>
> *If you mean building new build aircraft as a follow-on, with the US
> Government aggressively controlling price, yes. If you mean upgrading
> the old ones, probably not. The current fleet are approaching the
> point where fatigue means constant monitoring, and the man hours are
> higher than building new aircraft.

No, I did mean upgrading the design with new aircraft. IIRC an F-16
airframe is good for about 4,000 hours.

I posted a YouTube a few days ago that showed an F-16 with thrust
vectoring that can do the "gee-whiz!" manuevers an F-22 can.

> *The problem with the current system is that it's lose-lose for the
> taxpayer in every way. The government pays 100% of all tooling, R&D,
> certification and supply costs, then pays an entrepreneurial profit to
> the prime contractor for all items received. Since all foreign sales
> are totally politicized, and most always subsidized, in reality the
> prime contractor is a design bureau with an in-house job shop on which
> he charges a huge override.

There's also the problem of the Saxby Chambliss' of the world. They're
more worried about a defense contractor in their state or district
than they are about national security and guarding the nation's
wealth.

But 2pid would rather whine about Pelosi like the simpering imbecile
he is.

> *A good example is the JPATS trainer, stupidly designated T-6, which
> is a Pilatus PC-9 at nearly three times the price. A propeller driven
> two seat trainer shoulsn't cost $500K let alone five million each.

You've found yet another area to cut the budget. I believe we could
cut 30% of the defense budget and not lose any military capability.
Being leaner and meaner might actually *increase* capability. A
razorback is more dangerous than a bloated pig.

2pid whines and moans about trivial amounts of waste and pork and
earmarks yet he cannot find one area to cut the defense budget.

Isn't that odd?