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View Full Version : Re: America: Better 50, even 100 years ago?


January 19th 09, 04:29 PM
On Jan 18, 11:23*am, wrote:
> *Was America a better place then? I think so.
>
> *To be sure, a hundred years ago, any major city stank of ****, human
> and horse, there was no air conditioning, and people must have had
> body odor most of the time. Indoor plumbing was not a common practice
> much before 1900 and not universal until the Roaring Twenties, and
> having central hot water heating was in fact only nearly universal at
> roughly the dawn of WWII. The upper classes had them a generation
> earlier of course, and so we forget that many working class families
> could remember *chamber pots within living memory.
>
> *The next fifty years, from 1909 to 1959, brought the most
> foundational changes technologically in every aspect of life, from
> birth to childhood to working life, retirement, and death, of any
> similar period in human history. An Egyptian or Chinese for four
> thousand years, perhaps, could live to sixty (although most did not)
> and reflect back on his, or her, experience from the age of ten with
> little change in day to day life. A Briton from earliest to later
> Victorian *life would have seen more change, but the basics were
> relatively similar. But an American, male or female, working or middle
> or patrician in class, would find such a massive upheaval that in
> fact, most people still alive in 1969 who had been born in 1909-ten
> years onward from even then and after the tumultuus six or seven years
> that constituted the tumultuous 1960s-were not particularly stunned or
> shocked by the television images they watched as American Neil
> Armstrong stepped off the lunar lander ladder onto the moon. In fact,
> it was not considered remarkable that most Americans born in 1909 did
> watch the lunar landing. That fifty percent of the population would
> see their sixtieth birthday was a historical milestone few took for
> anything but routine.
>
> *Most modern people would consider it more pleasant to live in 1959
> than in 1909. But would either be preferable to 2009? It's of course a
> moot question, since time travel is either absolutely impossible or is
> sufficiently far in the future that those visiting us today in their
> own past are universally discreet so as we can not detect them, or
> even tangentially infer their presence.
>
> *My own opinion is that intellectually 1909 was far better than today,
> and that a learned person might well prefer it, but that 1959 overall
> was probably the zenith of American life and the best time in history
> simply to have experienced the country, although the foundations were
> even then being attacked by termites of various species.
>
> *The concern allegedly of interest here is, or was, the business of
> sound reproduction. In that, 1959 was truly the golden era. The
> technology was sufficiently advanced to permit results that today can
> be improved only asymptotically, yet, cost cutting and cheapening were
> not the order of the day. Profit margins were good, and talented
> people still designed and good workers still assembled and tested each
> item here in the United States. With the exception of some very
> specific items in Britain and Germany, all the best items were made in
> the United States. People making them could afford to own a house and
> feed a family. And a considerable number of audiophiles built a good
> percentage of their own systems from component parts, giving them
> knowledge and experience later 'appliance operators' would never
> attain.

I have both an unusual type of autism,and mitochondrial
disease.Neither of which could have been diagnosed fifty years ago.As
an autistic,I can't be anything but blunt.The internet,and the
advances in medicine,genetics,etc. are the only things that make life
in the early 21st century at all wortwhile.Other than that,the whole
of western civilization has gone dramatically downhill in the last
thirty years.As a leftist,and a socialist,I say the downfall began
with the election of Ronald Reagan,and the ensuing rise of the
religious right in America.

The twentieth century was marked by musical innovation and
revoulutions,from "Le Sacre du Printemps" to The Sex Pistols.Punk,now
over thirty years in the past was the last of this.The lack of any
classical composers to emerge in the past sixty years,as well known as
Bartok,or a Shostakovich speaks for itself.Both high culture,and pop
culture has gone dramatically downhill since the early 1980s.Teenage
kids still love Buddy Holly,Miles Davis,The Doors,and The Velvet
Underground,generations after they are gone,in part because they have
no equal today.In part because technology and corporations have each
done their part to ruin music,beginning with the rise of the CD in the
early 80s.Today's classical artists sound boring,and pedestrian,when
compared to a Furtwangler,a Menhuin,or a Stokowski. A Kenneth
Wilkinson,or a team like a C.Robert,and Wilma Cozart-Fine has no place
in the classical recording biz anymore,even if their equals ARE out
there.

Most of the major components in my system,like my Marantz 8,and my
Thorens,are all around fifty years old.The only exciting development
since the CD,has been the triode revolution,and what are we talking
about here,but modifications in seventy five/eighty year old
technology.Can you say Loftin-White?

Fifty or a hundred years ago,Coca-Cola had real sugar,and tasted like
Coca-Cola.Same with all soda.Fifty years ago,most packaged supermarket
food was better quality than it was now.You did not have to worry
about dying from substandard ingredients imported from China,to cut
corners on cost and quality.There was still a vibrant manufacturing
base,in this country.Unions were alive and well.

I wish I could move to a prosperous,well run country like Venezuela.

Hugo Chavez is the greatest president ever,


Roger

Iain Churches[_2_]
January 19th 09, 05:25 PM
> wrote in message
...
On Jan 18, 11:23 am, wrote:
> Was America a better place then? I think so.
>

> The twentieth century was marked by musical innovation and
> revoulutions,from "Le Sacre du Printemps" to The Sex Pistols.Punk,now
> over thirty years in the past was the last of this.The lack of any
> classical composers to emerge in the past sixty years,as well known as
> Bartok,or a Shostakovich speaks for itself.Both high culture,and pop
> culture has gone dramatically downhill since the early 1980s.Teenage
> kids still love Buddy Holly,Miles Davis,The Doors,and The Velvet
> Underground,generations after they are gone,in part because they have
> no equal today.In part because technology and corporations have each
> done their part to ruin music,beginning with the rise of the CD in the
> early 80s.Today's classical artists sound boring,and pedestrian,when
> compared to a Furtwangler,a Menhuin,or a Stokowski. A Kenneth
> Wilkinson,or a team like a C.Robert,and Wilma Cozart-Fine has no place
> in the classical recording biz anymore,even if their equals ARE out
> there.

Hi Roger. Excellent post. Most of which I agree with

Iain

Clyde Slick
January 19th 09, 07:08 PM
On 19 Ian, 12:25, "Iain Churches" > wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Jan 18, 11:23 am, wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Was America a better place then? I think so.
>
> > The twentieth century was marked by musical innovation and
> > revoulutions,from "Le Sacre du Printemps" to The Sex Pistols.Punk,now
> > over thirty years in the past was the last of this.The lack of any
> > classical composers to emerge in the past sixty years,as well known as
> > Bartok,or a Shostakovich speaks for itself.Both high culture,and pop
> > culture has gone dramatically downhill since the early 1980s.Teenage
> > kids still love Buddy Holly,Miles Davis,The Doors,and The Velvet
> > Underground,generations after they are gone,in part because they have
> > no equal today.In part because technology and corporations have each
> > done their part to ruin music,beginning with the rise of the CD in the
> > early 80s.Today's classical artists sound boring,and pedestrian,when
> > compared to a Furtwangler,a Menhuin,or a Stokowski. A Kenneth
> > Wilkinson,or a team like a C.Robert,and Wilma Cozart-Fine has no place
> > in the classical recording biz anymore,even if their equals ARE out
> > there.
>
> Hi Roger. Excellent post. Most of which I agree with
>
> Iain- Ascunde citatul -
>
> - Afișare text în citat -

we are waiting for the two of you to marry and run off to live
happilyever after in Venezuela, unless that's the part of the
you don't agree with.

Peter Wieck
January 19th 09, 07:15 PM
On Jan 19, 2:08*pm, Clyde Slick > wrote:
> On 19 Ian, 12:25, "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > > wrote in message
>
> ....
> > On Jan 18, 11:23 am, wrote:
>
> > > Was America a better place then? I think so.
>
> > > The twentieth century was marked by musical innovation and
> > > revoulutions,from "Le Sacre du Printemps" to The Sex Pistols.Punk,now
> > > over thirty years in the past was the last of this.The lack of any
> > > classical composers to emerge in the past sixty years,as well known as
> > > Bartok,or a Shostakovich speaks for itself.Both high culture,and pop
> > > culture has gone dramatically downhill since the early 1980s.Teenage
> > > kids still love Buddy Holly,Miles Davis,The Doors,and The Velvet
> > > Underground,generations after they are gone,in part because they have
> > > no equal today.In part because technology and corporations have each
> > > done their part to ruin music,beginning with the rise of the CD in the
> > > early 80s.Today's classical artists sound boring,and pedestrian,when
> > > compared to a Furtwangler,a Menhuin,or a Stokowski. A Kenneth
> > > Wilkinson,or a team like a C.Robert,and Wilma Cozart-Fine has no place
> > > in the classical recording biz anymore,even if their equals ARE out
> > > there.
>
> > Hi Roger. Excellent post. Most of which I agree with
>
> > Iain- Ascunde citatul -
>
> > - Afișare text în citat -
>
> we are waiting for the two of you to marry and run off to live
> happilyever after in Venezuela, unless that's the part of the
> you don't agree with.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Clyde:

You need to understand that there is little or no connection between
Politics as-practiced and Reality as-observed. Whatever feather of
whichever wing you inhabit.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Clyde Slick
January 19th 09, 09:11 PM
On 19 Ian, 14:15, Peter Wieck > wrote:
> On Jan 19, 2:08*pm, Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 19 Ian, 12:25, "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>
> > > > wrote in message
>
> > ....
> > > On Jan 18, 11:23 am, wrote:
>
> > > > Was America a better place then? I think so.
>
> > > > The twentieth century was marked by musical innovation and
> > > > revoulutions,from "Le Sacre du Printemps" to The Sex Pistols.Punk,now
> > > > over thirty years in the past was the last of this.The lack of any
> > > > classical composers to emerge in the past sixty years,as well known as
> > > > Bartok,or a Shostakovich speaks for itself.Both high culture,and pop
> > > > culture has gone dramatically downhill since the early 1980s.Teenage
> > > > kids still love Buddy Holly,Miles Davis,The Doors,and The Velvet
> > > > Underground,generations after they are gone,in part because they have
> > > > no equal today.In part because technology and corporations have each
> > > > done their part to ruin music,beginning with the rise of the CD in the
> > > > early 80s.Today's classical artists sound boring,and pedestrian,when
> > > > compared to a Furtwangler,a Menhuin,or a Stokowski. A Kenneth
> > > > Wilkinson,or a team like a C.Robert,and Wilma Cozart-Fine has no place
> > > > in the classical recording biz anymore,even if their equals ARE out
> > > > there.
>
> > > Hi Roger. Excellent post. Most of which I agree with
>
> > > Iain- Ascunde citatul -
>
> > > - Afișare text în citat -
>
> > we are waiting for the two of you to marry and run off to live
> > happilyever after in Venezuela, unless that's the part of the
> > you don't agree with.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Clyde:
>
> You need to understand that there is little or no connection between
> Politics as-practiced and Reality as-observed. Whatever feather of
> whichever wing you inhabit.
>
> Peter Wieck
> Melrose Park, PA- Ascunde citatul -
>
> -

non sequitor

January 21st 09, 02:06 AM
On Jan 19, 10:29*am, " >
wrote:
> On Jan 18, 11:23*am, wrote:
>
>
>
> > *Was America a better place then? I think so.
>
> > *To be sure, a hundred years ago, any major city stank of ****, human
> > and horse, there was no air conditioning, and people must have had
> > body odor most of the time. Indoor plumbing was not a common practice
> > much before 1900 and not universal until the Roaring Twenties, and
> > having central hot water heating was in fact only nearly universal at
> > roughly the dawn of WWII. The upper classes had them a generation
> > earlier of course, and so we forget that many working class families
> > could remember *chamber pots within living memory.
>
> > *The next fifty years, from 1909 to 1959, brought the most
> > foundational changes technologically in every aspect of life, from
> > birth to childhood to working life, retirement, and death, of any
> > similar period in human history. An Egyptian or Chinese for four
> > thousand years, perhaps, could live to sixty (although most did not)
> > and reflect back on his, or her, experience from the age of ten with
> > little change in day to day life. A Briton from earliest to later
> > Victorian *life would have seen more change, but the basics were
> > relatively similar. But an American, male or female, working or middle
> > or patrician in class, would find such a massive upheaval that in
> > fact, most people still alive in 1969 who had been born in 1909-ten
> > years onward from even then and after the tumultuus six or seven years
> > that constituted the tumultuous 1960s-were not particularly stunned or
> > shocked by the television images they watched as American Neil
> > Armstrong stepped off the lunar lander ladder onto the moon. In fact,
> > it was not considered remarkable that most Americans born in 1909 did
> > watch the lunar landing. That fifty percent of the population would
> > see their sixtieth birthday was a historical milestone few took for
> > anything but routine.
>
> > *Most modern people would consider it more pleasant to live in 1959
> > than in 1909. But would either be preferable to 2009? It's of course a
> > moot question, since time travel is either absolutely impossible or is
> > sufficiently far in the future that those visiting us today in their
> > own past are universally discreet so as we can not detect them, or
> > even tangentially infer their presence.
>
> > *My own opinion is that intellectually 1909 was far better than today,
> > and that a learned person might well prefer it, but that 1959 overall
> > was probably the zenith of American life and the best time in history
> > simply to have experienced the country, although the foundations were
> > even then being attacked by termites of various species.
>
> > *The concern allegedly of interest here is, or was, the business of
> > sound reproduction. In that, 1959 was truly the golden era. The
> > technology was sufficiently advanced to permit results that today can
> > be improved only asymptotically, yet, cost cutting and cheapening were
> > not the order of the day. Profit margins were good, and talented
> > people still designed and good workers still assembled and tested each
> > item here in the United States. With the exception of some very
> > specific items in Britain and Germany, all the best items were made in
> > the United States. People making them could afford to own a house and
> > feed a family. And a considerable number of audiophiles built a good
> > percentage of their own systems from component parts, giving them
> > knowledge and experience later 'appliance operators' would never
> > attain.
>
> I have both an unusual type of autism,and mitochondrial
> disease.Neither of which could have been diagnosed fifty years ago.As
> an autistic,I can't be anything but blunt.The internet,and the
> advances in medicine,genetics,etc. are the only things that make life
> in the early 21st century at all wortwhile.Other than that,the whole
> of western civilization has gone dramatically downhill in the last
> thirty years.As a leftist,and a socialist,I say the downfall began
> with the election of Ronald Reagan,and the ensuing rise of the
> religious right in America.
>
> The twentieth century was marked by musical innovation and
> revoulutions,from "Le Sacre du Printemps" to The Sex Pistols.Punk,now
> over thirty years in the past was the last of this.The lack of any
> classical composers to emerge in the past sixty years,as well known as
> Bartok,or a Shostakovich speaks for itself.Both high culture,and pop
> culture has gone dramatically downhill since the early 1980s.Teenage
> kids still love Buddy Holly,Miles Davis,The Doors,and The Velvet
> Underground,generations after they are gone,in part because they have
> no equal today.In part because technology and corporations have each
> done their part to ruin music,beginning with the rise of the CD in the
> early 80s.Today's classical artists sound boring,and pedestrian,when
> compared to a Furtwangler,a Menhuin,or a Stokowski. A Kenneth
> Wilkinson,or a team like a C.Robert,and Wilma Cozart-Fine has no place
> in the classical recording biz anymore,even if their equals ARE out
> there.
>
> Most of the major components in my system,like my Marantz 8,and my
> Thorens,are all around fifty years old.The only exciting development
> since the CD,has been the triode revolution,and what are we talking
> about here,but modifications in seventy five/eighty year old
> technology.Can you say Loftin-White?

Yes, it was a terrible design because the operating points went all
over the place as it all ran off a huge multitapped resistor. Later
variants floated the front end supply sort of like a Circlotron, but
the die was cast. Terrible design in terms of efficiency too.

Actually, the Circlotron wasn't bad. There was also a Finnish design
based around a special autoformer that did some thing similar that
worked well too. But the RC coupled graded power supply system won
because it was better.