Wiring turntables in the 21st century

[[email protected]]

One thing that has been determined is that since phono cartridges are
inherently balanced four wire devices the use of differential phono
stages is inherently good prectice. Yet most turntables come with the
stupid RCA male plugs permanently attached or a pair of female RCAs.

Obviously a better system has to exist.

Morgan Jones proposes the use of four pin Lemo connectors, but the
audiophools have no idea what a Lemo connector is. Some have went with
the DIN plug, but the DIN is not a particularly good standard either.
A pair of XLRs can be found occasionally.

Why a PAIR of three pin XLRs when there is a five pin XLR readily
available?

Oh yeah. Just like the **** eating tube rollers who do not have and
will not obtain a tube manual, the audiophool refuses to look in a
catalog to see what is available off the shelf.

Audiophools are like the ****head car designers who refuse to simply
copy the nine inch Ford rear end, which is in the public domain
because so many street rod, drag race and circle track companies have
made them with total lack of interest from Ford and design their own
rear ends.

[Boon]

On Jan 11, 11:59�pm, wrote:
> One thing that has been determined is that since phono cartridges are
> inherently balanced four wire devices the use of differential phono
> stages is inherently good prectice. Yet most turntables come with the
> stupid RCA male plugs permanently attached or a pair of female RCAs.
>
> �Obviously a better system has to exist.
>
> �Morgan Jones proposes the use of four pin Lemo connectors, but the
> audiophools have no idea what a Lemo connector is. Some have went with
> the DIN plug, but the DIN is not a particularly good standard either.
> A pair of XLRs can be found occasionally.
>
> �Why a PAIR of three pin XLRs when there is a five pin XLR readily
> available?
>
> Oh yeah. Just like the **** eating tube rollers who do not have and
> will not obtain a tube manual, the audiophool refuses to look in a
> catalog to see what is available off the shelf.
>
> �Audiophools are like the ****head car designers who refuse to simply
> copy the nine inch Ford rear end, which is in the public domain
> because so many street rod, drag race and circle track companies have
> made them with total lack of interest from Ford and design their own
> rear ends.

You sound like a drunk sitting on his porch, grumbling at the fact
that his neighborhood is turning to **** around him.

Boo hoo.

Boon

[[email protected]]

On Jan 12, 2:07 am, Boon > wrote:
> On Jan 11, 11:59 pm, wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > One thing that has been determined is that since phono cartridges are
> > inherently balanced four wire devices the use of differential phono
> > stages is inherently good prectice. Yet most turntables come with the
> > stupid RCA male plugs permanently attached or a pair of female RCAs.
>
> > Obviously a better system has to exist.
>
> > Morgan Jones proposes the use of four pin Lemo connectors, but the
> > audiophools have no idea what a Lemo connector is. Some have went with
> > the DIN plug, but the DIN is not a particularly good standard either.
> > A pair of XLRs can be found occasionally.
>
> > Why a PAIR of three pin XLRs when there is a five pin XLR readily
> > available?
>
> > Oh yeah. Just like the **** eating tube rollers who do not have and
> > will not obtain a tube manual, the audiophool refuses to look in a
> > catalog to see what is available off the shelf.
>
> > Audiophools are like the ****head car designers who refuse to simply
> > copy the nine inch Ford rear end, which is in the public domain
> > because so many street rod, drag race and circle track companies have
> > made them with total lack of interest from Ford and design their own
> > rear ends.
>
> You sound like a drunk sitting on his porch, grumbling at the fact
> that his neighborhood is turning to **** around him.
>

I don't even HAVE a porch! Well, not much of one anyway.

My upstairs deck is pretty nice though.

[Arny Krueger]

> wrote in message


> One thing that has been determined is that since phono
> cartridges are inherently balanced four wire devices the
> use of differential phono stages is inherently good
> prectice.

Agreed.

> Yet most turntables come with the stupid RCA
> male plugs permanently attached or a pair of female RCAs.

RCAs - the bane of the audio industry. Probable cure = USB or HDMI.

> Obviously a better system has to exist.

Yes, digital. Already implemented.

> Morgan Jones proposes the use of four pin Lemo
> connectors, but the audiophools have no idea what a Lemo
> connector is.

Why should they? I think the original Mark Levinson preamp had Lemos. Didn't
take, and that was like 30 years ago.

> Some have went with the DIN plug, but the
> DIN is not a particularly good standard either.

It's a fragile, hard-to-terminate plug.

> A pair of XLRs can be found occasionally.

A light dawns!

> Why three pin XLRs when there is a five pin XLR
> readily available?

Umm, that's for DMX. ;-)

[Arny Krueger]

"Boon" > wrote in message

> On Jan 11, 11:59?pm, wrote:

> You sound like a drunk sitting on his porch, grumbling at
> the fact that his neighborhood is turning to **** around
> him.

All the people on one side of the room say its the crack that makes you like
this Marc, and the people on the other side say Amphetamines. Given your
history of up-and-down weight, I'd bet on the Meth.

Got your own lab, Marc? Use dirty baby diapers as an excuse for the ammonia
smell?

[Boon]

On Jan 12, 6:24�am, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> "Boon" > wrote in message
>
>
>
> > On Jan 11, 11:59?pm, wrote:
> > You sound like a drunk sitting on his porch, grumbling at
> > the fact that his neighborhood is turning to **** around
> > him.
>
> All the people on one side of the room say its the crack that makes you like
> this Marc, and the people on the other side say Amphetamines. Given your
> history of up-and-down weight, I'd bet on the Meth.
>
> Got your own lab, Marc? Use dirty baby diapers as an excuse for the ammonia
> smell?

Bearing false witness against thy neighbor again, I see. Apparently
you had another tough day in church. Maybe you should just be a man
and tell Susan that you're not really a Christian and that you only go
so she'll stop bitching about your dire need for salvation.

LOL!

Boon

[Arny Krueger]

"Boon" > wrote in message

> On Jan 12, 6:24?am, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>> "Boon" > wrote in message
>>
>>

>>> On Jan 11, 11:59?pm, wrote:

>>> You sound like a drunk sitting on his porch, grumbling
>>> at the fact that his neighborhood is turning to ****
>>> around him.

>> All the people on one side of the room say its the crack
>> that makes you like this Marc, and the people on the
>> other side say Amphetamines. Given your history of
>> up-and-down weight, I'd bet on the Meth.
>>
>> Got your own lab, Marc? Use dirty baby diapers as an
>> excuse for the ammonia smell?

> Bearing false witness against thy neighbor again, I see.

No witness was borne. A person would have to be overcome with guilt to see
things otherwise.

Quit with the hypocracy, Marc. You have made it quite clear that you don't
want to be fettered by an old-fashioned religion like Christianity.

That's why you keep obsessing over child pornography on the web. You have
proven yourself incapable of staying away from it.

[UnsteadyKen[_3_]]

Arny Krueger wrote...

> > One thing that has been determined is that since phono
> > cartridges are inherently balanced four wire devices the
> > use of differential phono stages is inherently good
> > prectice.
>
> Agreed.
>
> > Yet most turntables come with the stupid RCA
> > male plugs permanently attached or a pair of female RCAs.
>
> RCAs - the bane of the audio industry. Probable cure = USB or HDMI.
> > Obviously a better system has to exist.

RCAs work fine for balanced connections, all you need is a separate
ground wire, which most turntables already have.
http://www.phono-stage-riaa-step-up.com/origin-ultra.htm

Most tonearms are already wired this way.
http://www.aqvox.de/tonarm_en-balanced.htm

> Yes, digital. Already implemented.

In ADC cartridges?

> > Morgan Jones proposes the use of four pin Lemo
> > connectors, but the audiophools have no idea what a Lemo
> > connector is.
>
> Why should they? I think the original Mark Levinson preamp had Lemos. Didn't
> take, and that was like 30 years ago.
>
> > Some have went with the DIN plug, but the
> > DIN is not a particularly good standard either.
>
> It's a fragile, hard-to-terminate plug.

They worked very well in an all DIN system and high quality
plugs with decent solder troughs and metal bodies were available.

My first pair of Sennheiser 414s were the low sensitivity model
designed for connection to speaker outputs and had DIN speaker plugs
fitted. They sounded a lot better than the normal phone jack equipped
pair that replaced them after our dog ate the originals.


--
Ken
http://www.members.lycos.co.uk/buddyduck/

[Boon]

On Jan 12, 9:38�am, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> "Boon" > wrote in message
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 12, 6:24?am, "Arny Krueger" >
> > wrote:
> >> "Boon" > wrote in message
>
>
> >>> On Jan 11, 11:59?pm, wrote:
> >>> You sound like a drunk sitting on his porch, grumbling
> >>> at the fact that his neighborhood is turning to ****
> >>> around him.
> >> All the people on one side of the room say its the crack
> >> that makes you like this Marc, and the people on the
> >> other side say Amphetamines. Given your history of
> >> up-and-down weight, I'd bet on the Meth.
>
> >> Got your own lab, Marc? Use dirty baby diapers as an
> >> excuse for the ammonia smell?
> > Bearing false witness against thy neighbor again, I see.
>
> No witness was borne. A person would have to be overcome with guilt to see
> things otherwise.

No they wouldn't. That's absolute nonsense. Did Pastor Matt tell you
to say that?

>
> Quit with the hypocracy [sic], Marc. You have made it quite clear that you don't
> want to be fettered by an old-fashioned religion like Christianity.

Again you miss the point. You're the one who professes to be a
Christian, and you're the one who cannot abide by your own beliefs. My
personal beliefs have nothing to do with it.

>
> That's why you keep obsessing over child pornography on the web. You have
> proven yourself incapable of staying away from it.

It's weird how you keep trying to suck others into your sick
fetishes. Are you trying to establish a distribution network?

Boon

[Clyde Slick]

On 12 Ian, 09:24, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:


Use dirty baby diapers as an excuse for the ammonia
> smell?

Stop pouting. the Grandkids will be visiting soon to
replenish your supply.

[Clyde Slick]

On 12 Ian, 13:20, Boon > wrote:
> On Jan 12, 9:38 am, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Boon" > wrote in message
>
>
>
> > > On Jan 12, 6:24?am, "Arny Krueger" >
> > > wrote:
> > >> "Boon" > wrote in message
>
> >
> > >>> On Jan 11, 11:59?pm, wrote:
> > >>> You sound like a drunk sitting on his porch, grumbling
> > >>> at the fact that his neighborhood is turning to ****
> > >>> around him.
> > >> All the people on one side of the room say its the crack
> > >> that makes you like this Marc, and the people on the
> > >> other side say Amphetamines. Given your history of
> > >> up-and-down weight, I'd bet on the Meth.
>
> > >> Got your own lab, Marc? Use dirty baby diapers as an
> > >> excuse for the ammonia smell?
> > > Bearing false witness against thy neighbor again, I see.
>
> > No witness was borne. A person would have to be overcome with guilt to see
> > things otherwise.
>
> No they wouldn't. *That's absolute nonsense. *Did Pastor Matt tell you
> to say that?
>
>
>
> > Quit with the hypocracy [sic], Marc. You have made it quite clear that you don't
> > want to be fettered by an old-fashioned religion like Christianity.
>
> Again you miss the point. *You're the one who professes to be a
> Christian, and you're the one who cannot abide by your own beliefs. My
> personal beliefs have nothing to do with it.
>
>
>
> > That's why you keep obsessing over child pornography on the web. You have
> > proven yourself incapable of staying away from it.
>
> It's weird how you keep trying to suck others into your sick
> fetishes. *Are you trying to establish a distribution network?
>
> Boon-

LOL!!!
Arny's the one who first made it an 'issue".

[Arny Krueger]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message

> On 12 Ian, 09:24, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>
> Use dirty baby diapers as an excuse for the ammonia
>> smell?
>
> Stop pouting. the Grandkids will be visiting soon to
> replenish your supply.

If you were keeping track, all of my grandkids have been out of diapers for
years.

Maybe that odor you're smelling is your Depends, Art?

[Boon]

On Jan 12, 1:49�pm, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>
>
>
> > On 12 Ian, 09:24, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
> > Use dirty baby diapers as an excuse for the ammonia
> >> smell?
>
> > Stop pouting. the Grandkids will be visiting soon to
> > replenish your supply.
>
> If you were keeping track, all of my grandkids have been out of diapers for
> years.

Are you sure? After all, you're the guy who can't tell the difference
between an infant and an 18 year old.

Boon

[Clyde Slick]

On 12 Ian, 16:49, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:


> > Stop pouting. the Grandkids will be visiting soon to
> > replenish your supply.
>
> If you were keeping track, all of my grandkids have been out of diapers for
> years.
>


Too bad that eBay's policies
prevents you from buying baby turds on line.

Maybe one of your rival collectors will
let you have this one, if you don't mind the bronze.

http://www.hecklerspray.com/why-not-buy-suri-cruises-bronzed-turd/20064663.php

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Jan 12, 3:49*pm, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>
>
>
> > On 12 Ian, 09:24, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
> > Use dirty baby diapers as an excuse for the ammonia
> >> smell?
>
> > Stop pouting. the Grandkids will be visiting soon to
> > replenish your supply.
>
> If you were keeping track, all of my grandkids have been out of diapers for
> years.
>
> Maybe that odor you're smelling is your Depends, Art?

You've really been talking a lot about the smell of crap, GOIA. Are
you constipated or something?

[George M. Middius[_4_]]

Shhhh! said:

> You've really been talking a lot about the smell of crap, GOIA. Are
> you constipated or something?

A reasonable guess, but much more likely, IMO, is that he's hungry.

[[email protected]]

On Jan 12, 8:21 am, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
>
>
> > One thing that has been determined is that since phono
> > cartridges are inherently balanced four wire devices the
> > use of differential phono stages is inherently good
> > prectice.
>
> Agreed.
>
> > Yet most turntables come with the stupid RCA
> > male plugs permanently attached or a pair of female RCAs.
>
> RCAs - the bane of the audio industry. Probable cure = USB or HDMI.
>
> > Obviously a better system has to exist.
>
> Yes, digital. Already implemented.

You mean you can buy a turntable with an ADC on board? Well yeah, but
those suck **** through a straw.

[Arny Krueger]

> wrote in message

> On Jan 12, 8:21 am, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>> > wrote in message
>>
>>
>>
>>> One thing that has been determined is that since phono
>>> cartridges are inherently balanced four wire devices the
>>> use of differential phono stages is inherently good
>>> prectice.
>>
>> Agreed.
>>
>>> Yet most turntables come with the stupid RCA
>>> male plugs permanently attached or a pair of female
>>> RCAs.
>>
>> RCAs - the bane of the audio industry. Probable cure =
>> USB or HDMI.

>>> Obviously a better system has to exist.

>> Yes, digital. Already implemented.

> You mean you can buy a turntable with an ADC on board?

Yes, here's a news flash for you Bret, that's called a USB turntable.
Before that there were turntables with digital outputs.

> Well yeah, but those suck **** through a straw.

The cheap ones surely are pretty crappy.

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> > wrote in message
>
>> On Jan 12, 8:21 am, "Arny Krueger" >
>> wrote:
>>> > wrote in message
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> One thing that has been determined is that since phono
>>>> cartridges are inherently balanced four wire devices the
>>>> use of differential phono stages is inherently good
>>>> prectice.
>>>
>>> Agreed.
>>>
>>>> Yet most turntables come with the stupid RCA
>>>> male plugs permanently attached or a pair of female
>>>> RCAs.
>>>
>>> RCAs - the bane of the audio industry. Probable cure =
>>> USB or HDMI.
>
>>>> Obviously a better system has to exist.
>
>>> Yes, digital. Already implemented.
>
>> You mean you can buy a turntable with an ADC on board?
>
> Yes, here's a news flash for you Bret, that's called a USB turntable.
> Before that there were turntables with digital outputs.
>
>> Well yeah, but those suck **** through a straw.
>
> The cheap ones surely are pretty crappy.

It looks as though turntables with ADC built in
are all cheap and nasty.

Can you name on that is of broadcast quality?
Swedish Radio have been unable to find such a turntable.

Iain

[Arny Krueger]

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
i.fi
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> > wrote in message
>>
>>> On Jan 12, 8:21 am, "Arny Krueger" >
>>> wrote:
>>>> > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> One thing that has been determined is that since phono
>>>>> cartridges are inherently balanced four wire devices
>>>>> the use of differential phono stages is inherently
>>>>> good practice.
>>>>
>>>> Agreed.
>>>>
>>>>> Yet most turntables come with the stupid RCA
>>>>> male plugs permanently attached or a pair of female
>>>>> RCAs.
>>>>
>>>> RCAs - the bane of the audio industry. Probable cure =
>>>> USB or HDMI.
>>
>>>>> Obviously a better system has to exist.
>>
>>>> Yes, digital. Already implemented.
>>
>>> You mean you can buy a turntable with an ADC on board?
>>
>> Yes, here's a news flash for you Bret, that's called a
>> USB turntable. Before that there were turntables with digital outputs.
>>> Well yeah, but those suck **** through a straw.
>>
>> The cheap ones surely are pretty crappy.
>
> It looks as though turntables with ADC built in
> are all cheap and nasty.

> Can you name on that is of broadcast quality?

Since there is no formal defintion of "broadcast quality", I'll decline.

> Swedish Radio have been unable to find such a turntable.


Have they reviewed this document?

http://www.knowzy.com/Computers/Audio/Digitize_Your_LPs/USB_Record_Player_Turntable_Comparison.htm

I suspect that the turntable that these guys like the best wouldn't make
many broadcasters happy because it is probably quite slow off the line.

One of the better DJ turntables would get them through at least a few days,
but might not have the build quality that they think they need.

[[email protected]]

On Jan 13, 6:23 am, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 12, 8:21 am, "Arny Krueger" >
> > wrote:
> >> > wrote in message
>
>
>
> >>> One thing that has been determined is that since phono
> >>> cartridges are inherently balanced four wire devices the
> >>> use of differential phono stages is inherently good
> >>> prectice.
>
> >> Agreed.
>
> >>> Yet most turntables come with the stupid RCA
> >>> male plugs permanently attached or a pair of female
> >>> RCAs.
>
> >> RCAs - the bane of the audio industry. Probable cure =
> >> USB or HDMI.
> >>> Obviously a better system has to exist.
> >> Yes, digital. Already implemented.
> > You mean you can buy a turntable with an ADC on board?
>
> Yes, here's a news flash for you Bret, that's called a USB turntable.
> Before that there were turntables with digital outputs.
>
> > Well yeah, but those suck **** through a straw.
>
> The cheap ones surely are pretty crappy.

I seriously doubt whether a turntable offering digital output through
a USB connector has ever or will ever be offered that isn't dog****.

For audiophile grade playback there is no substitute for a belt drive
table with a heavy platter, and, usually, some kind of suspension.
That costs money. Broadcast facilities at one time used rim drive
affairs with transmisssions out of industrial washing machines, and
when broadcast standards of ruggedness declined they went to the
Technics DJ type table then preferred by rappers and Jamaican street
deejays. The latter did at least have less rumble.

[Arny Krueger]

> wrote in message


> I seriously doubt whether a turntable offering digital
> output through a USB connector has ever or will ever be
> offered that isn't dog****.

There might be something worth owning here:

http://www.knowzy.com/Computers/Audio/Digitize_Your_LPs/USB_Record_Player_Turntable_Comparison.htm

> For audiophile grade playback there is no substitute for
> a belt drive table with a heavy platter, and, usually,
> some kind of suspension. That costs money.

Right now there are USB turntables up in the ca. $500 range. That should
provide enough budget for someone to do it right.

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Jan 13, 4:19*pm, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
>
>
> > I seriously doubt whether a turntable offering digital
> > output through a USB connector has ever or will ever be
> > offered that isn't dog****.
>
> There might be something worth owning here:
>
> http://www.knowzy.com/Computers/Audio/Digitize_Your_LPs/USB_Record_Pl...

The Pro-Ject would probably work since you're screwing it up by
putting LPs an CDs anyway.

> > For audiophile grade playback there is no substitute for
> > a belt drive table with a heavy platter, and, usually,
> > some kind of suspension. That costs money.
>
> Right now there are USB turntables up in the ca. $500 range. *That should
> provide enough budget for someone to do it right.

I would just use my turntable with a converter. That opens it up to
all turntables, so Bratzi can quit whining.