Azimuth adjustment on a tape deck

[ansermetniac]

Assuming:

The tape moves along the X pos axis

The guides pull the tape to contact the heads in the Z pos axis

The Y pos axis is the mounting screw connecting the head to the block


_____

Which plane is azimuth?

It is quite clear that errors in the XY Plane(Yaw) or YZ plane will
cause a 1/4 track tape to play tracks it shouldn't .Especially the XY
plane where height errors do not come into play

What are the results of errors in the XZ(pitch) plane? I.E. the head
is higher or lower on the left as on the right but there is no yaw (XY
error)

Any CNC programmers out there :-)

G17
G18
G19

Abbedd

[Serge Auckland[_2_]]

"ansermetniac" > wrote in message
...
> Assuming:
>
> The tape moves along the X pos axis
>
> The guides pull the tape to contact the heads in the Z pos axis
>
> The Y pos axis is the mounting screw connecting the head to the block
>
>
> _____
>
> Which plane is azimuth?
>
> It is quite clear that errors in the XY Plane(Yaw) or YZ plane will
> cause a 1/4 track tape to play tracks it shouldn't .Especially the XY
> plane where height errors do not come into play
>
> What are the results of errors in the XZ(pitch) plane? I.E. the head
> is higher or lower on the left as on the right but there is no yaw (XY
> error)
>
> Any CNC programmers out there :-)
>
> G17
> G18
> G19
>
> Abbedd

Tape azimuth is the rotation of the head gap relative to the direction of
motion of the tape, in the same plane as the tape motion. The gap needs to
be vertical, i.e. at 90 degrees to the direction of tape motion. Normally
there are two screws either side of a head. One (if adjustable) sets the
height and the other, often fitted with a spring tensioner, sets the
azimuth. The third screw, behind the head, sets the vertical angle of the
gap in the direction at right angles to the plane of the tape. This
adjustment is less critical, but should nevertheless be set as accurately as
possible both to even the wear on the head surface, and to maintain the same
tension across the width of the tape.

To set azimuth you need a test-tape, or a music tape recorded on a known
machine with azimuth correctly set. Adjust head azimuth using the test-tape
azimuth band for a peak in output, or using music for maximum high
frequencies. These days of free real-time spectrum analyser software, you
can use a music tape and adjust for greatest high frequencies. It's probably
easier than trying to find test tapes.

S.
--
http://audiopages.googlepages.com

[ansermetniac]

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 10:49:41 -0000, "Serge Auckland"
> wrote:

>
>Tape azimuth is the rotation of the head gap relative to the direction of
>motion of the tape, in the same plane as the tape motion.


If the head is out of adjustment it is off in one of the three
planes.Which plane is azimuth?

Abbedd

[Serge Auckland[_2_]]

"ansermetniac" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 10:49:41 -0000, "Serge Auckland"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>Tape azimuth is the rotation of the head gap relative to the direction of
>>motion of the tape, in the same plane as the tape motion.
>
>
> If the head is out of adjustment it is off in one of the three
> planes.Which plane is azimuth?
>
> Abbedd

The same plane that the tape is in.

S.
--
http://audiopages.googlepages.com

[ansermetniac]

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 14:23:48 -0000, "Serge Auckland"
> wrote:

>
>"ansermetniac" > wrote in message
...
>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 10:49:41 -0000, "Serge Auckland"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Tape azimuth is the rotation of the head gap relative to the direction of
>>>motion of the tape, in the same plane as the tape motion.
>>
>>
>> If the head is out of adjustment it is off in one of the three
>> planes.Which plane is azimuth?
>>
>> Abbedd
>
>The same plane that the tape is in.
>
>S.


Impossible

Abbedd

[Serge Auckland[_2_]]

"ansermetniac" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 14:23:48 -0000, "Serge Auckland"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"ansermetniac" > wrote in message
...
>>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 10:49:41 -0000, "Serge Auckland"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Tape azimuth is the rotation of the head gap relative to the direction
>>>>of
>>>>motion of the tape, in the same plane as the tape motion.
>>>
>>>
>>> If the head is out of adjustment it is off in one of the three
>>> planes.Which plane is azimuth?
>>>
>>> Abbedd
>>
>>The same plane that the tape is in.
>>
>>S.
>
>
> Impossible
>
> Abbedd

If you don't like the answer, then don't ask the f'ing question
S.
--
http://audiopages.googlepages.com

[ansermetniac]

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 15:30:54 -0000, "Serge Auckland"
> wrote:

>
>"ansermetniac" > wrote in message
...
>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 14:23:48 -0000, "Serge Auckland"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"ansermetniac" > wrote in message
...
>>>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 10:49:41 -0000, "Serge Auckland"
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Tape azimuth is the rotation of the head gap relative to the direction
>>>>>of
>>>>>motion of the tape, in the same plane as the tape motion.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If the head is out of adjustment it is off in one of the three
>>>> planes.Which plane is azimuth?
>>>>
>>>> Abbedd
>>>
>>>The same plane that the tape is in.
>>>
>>>S.
>>
>>
>> Impossible
>>
>> Abbedd
>
>If you don't like the answer, then don't ask the f'ing question
>S.

Your answer shows a lack of understanding of the question.In order for
a head to be out of alingment it must violate the space of one or more
of the three planes


Don't undertstand the question. Don't give a f'ing answer



Abbedd

[Richard Crowley]

"ansermetniac" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 15:30:54 -0000, "Serge Auckland"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"ansermetniac" > wrote in message
...
>>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 14:23:48 -0000, "Serge Auckland"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"ansermetniac" > wrote in message
...
>>>>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 10:49:41 -0000, "Serge Auckland"
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Tape azimuth is the rotation of the head gap relative to the direction
>>>>>>of
>>>>>>motion of the tape, in the same plane as the tape motion.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If the head is out of adjustment it is off in one of the three
>>>>> planes.Which plane is azimuth?
>>>>>
>>>>> Abbedd
>>>>
>>>>The same plane that the tape is in.
>>>>
>>>>S.
>>>
>>>
>>> Impossible
>>>
>>> Abbedd
>>
>>If you don't like the answer, then don't ask the f'ing question
>>S.
>
> Your answer shows a lack of understanding of the question.In order for
> a head to be out of alingment it must violate the space of one or more
> of the three planes
>
>
> Don't undertstand the question. Don't give a f'ing answer

Since everyone here likely thinks that Mr. Auckland is giving
the correct answer. Perhaps you are having a problem
properly stating your question. The answer is immediately
apparent to anyone who actually examines a tape deck, so
perhaps we are confused why you are even asking it?

[ansermetniac]

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 07:55:27 -0800, "Richard Crowley"
> wrote:

>
>"ansermetniac" > wrote in message
...
>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 15:30:54 -0000, "Serge Auckland"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"ansermetniac" > wrote in message
...
>>>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 14:23:48 -0000, "Serge Auckland"
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"ansermetniac" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 10:49:41 -0000, "Serge Auckland"
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Tape azimuth is the rotation of the head gap relative to the direction
>>>>>>>of
>>>>>>>motion of the tape, in the same plane as the tape motion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the head is out of adjustment it is off in one of the three
>>>>>> planes.Which plane is azimuth?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Abbedd
>>>>>
>>>>>The same plane that the tape is in.
>>>>>
>>>>>S.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Impossible
>>>>
>>>> Abbedd
>>>
>>>If you don't like the answer, then don't ask the f'ing question
>>>S.
>>
>> Your answer shows a lack of understanding of the question.In order for
>> a head to be out of alingment it must violate the space of one or more
>> of the three planes
>>
>>
>> Don't undertstand the question. Don't give a f'ing answer
>
>Since everyone here likely thinks that Mr. Auckland is giving
>the correct answer. Perhaps you are having a problem
>properly stating your question. The answer is immediately
>apparent to anyone who actually examines a tape deck, so
>perhaps we are confused why you are even asking it?
>


My question was self explanatory and explained well.It should be
understood by all who know geometry.

Which plane is violated when azimuth is incorrect?

Simple question. No answer has been given yet

Abbedd

[Richard Crowley]

"ansermetniac" wrote ...
> My question was self explanatory and explained well.
> It should be understood by all who know geometry.
>
> Which plane is violated when azimuth is incorrect?
>
> Simple question. No answer has been given yet

The answer is that NO "plane" is violated by incorrect
azimuth. Azimuth is Z-axis roll. If you extended an
imaginary line perpendicular to the head gap, it should
be parallel to the X-axis (the tape travel path as you
have defined it). The imaginary perpendicular azimuth
line would "violate" the X-axis if it were real.

[ansermetniac]

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 08:24:11 -0800, "Richard Crowley"
> wrote:

>"ansermetniac" wrote ...
>> My question was self explanatory and explained well.
>> It should be understood by all who know geometry.
>>
>> Which plane is violated when azimuth is incorrect?
>>
>> Simple question. No answer has been given yet
>
>The answer is that NO "plane" is violated by incorrect
>azimuth. Azimuth is Z-axis roll. If you extended an
>imaginary line perpendicular to the head gap, it should
>be parallel to the X-axis (the tape travel path as you
>have defined it). The imaginary perpendicular azimuth
>line would "violate" the X-axis if it were real.
>


You a re saying that Azimuth violates one axis and not a plane(two
axiis). I find that hard to believe

How can the z axis roll around itself?
If the x axis alone were violated, it would be the same as moving the
head to the left or right.

Abbedd

[Richard Crowley]

"ansermetniac" wrote...
> You a re saying that Azimuth violates one axis and
> not a plane (two axiis). I find that hard to believe

Then you don't understand how roll, pitch, and yaw
are defined. Perhaps you would find this instructive...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_dynamics

Or else you have an unusual concept of what a
"plane" is. Here is a good summary of the concept...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plane_(mathematics)

> How can the z axis roll around itself?

Why can it not? Seems like a trivial concept.
Look at the animated illustrations on the Wiki
page on Flight Dynamics.

> If the x axis alone were violated, it would be the
> same as moving the head to the left or right.

I don't see how moving the head left-right would
"violate" any axis, either (except perhaps the Y-axis).
Maybe you need to define what "violate an axis"
means to you.

The X-axis is only "violated" by the imaginary line
perpendicular to the head gap as it rotates
perpendicular to the Z-axis. Head *rotation*
would cause that same imaginary line to "violate"
the Y-axis.

Perhaps someone else can take up this discourse.
The length of this discussion has exceeded my
interest in it. I have better things to do today. Bye.

[ansermetniac]

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 09:12:51 -0800, "Richard Crowley"
> wrote:

>"ansermetniac" wrote...
>> You a re saying that Azimuth violates one axis and
>> not a plane (two axiis). I find that hard to believe
>
>Then you don't understand how roll, pitch, and yaw
>are defined. Perhaps you would find this instructive...
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_dynamics
>
>Or else you have an unusual concept of what a
>"plane" is. Here is a good summary of the concept...
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plane_(mathematics)
>
>> How can the z axis roll around itself?
>
>Why can it not? Seems like a trivial concept.
>Look at the animated illustrations on the Wiki
>page on Flight Dynamics.
>
>> If the x axis alone were violated, it would be the
>> same as moving the head to the left or right.
>
>I don't see how moving the head left-right would
>"violate" any axis, either (except perhaps the Y-axis).
>Maybe you need to define what "violate an axis"
>means to you.
>
>The X-axis is only "violated" by the imaginary line
>perpendicular to the head gap as it rotates
>perpendicular to the Z-axis. Head *rotation*
>would cause that same imaginary line to "violate"
>the Y-axis.
>
>Perhaps someone else can take up this discourse.
>The length of this discussion has exceeded my
>interest in it. I have better things to do today. Bye.
>


Knowing a fact and understanding a fact are two differnt things. This
subject is way over your head

A tape head cannot be misadjusted in ONE axis

>Perhaps someone else can take up this discourse.
>The length of this discussion has exceeded my
>interest in it. I have better things to do today. Bye.
>

Running away with your tail between your legs won't increase your
understanding of the subject

Pompousity gets you nowhere.Learnig gets you everywhere

Yaw- violation of the y axis by the x xais

pitch- violation of the z axis by the x axis

Abbedd

[Richard Crowley]

"ansermetniac" wrote...
> Running away with your tail between your legs won't increase your
> understanding of the subject
>
> Pompousity gets you nowhere.Learnig gets you everywhere

LOL! :-))

[Dave Platt]

>My question was self explanatory and explained well.It should be
>understood by all who know geometry.
>
>Which plane is violated when azimuth is incorrect?
>
>Simple question. No answer has been given yet

Azimuth error is a matter of *rotational* mis-alignment.

The center of the head may be positioned correctly on all three axes.
However, if the head is rotated slightly (in the same plane as the
tape motion), then the head gap will not be vertical (and will thus be
non-perpendicular to the direction of tape motion).

If axis X is the direction of tape motion, axis Y is across the width
of the tape, and axis Z is "through the tape", then an azimuth error
is the result of a rotation in the XY plane.

This will result in the head gap "cutting across" the patterns of
magnetic flux recorded in the domains in the tape, and will result in
partial cancellation of the higher-frequency components of the signal.
Net result: the sound is "dull".

--
Dave Platt > AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

[ansermetniac]

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 11:07:08 -0800, (Dave Platt)
wrote:

>>My question was self explanatory and explained well.It should be
>>understood by all who know geometry.
>>
>>Which plane is violated when azimuth is incorrect?
>>
>>Simple question. No answer has been given yet
>
>Azimuth error is a matter of *rotational* mis-alignment.
>
>The center of the head may be positioned correctly on all three axes.
>However, if the head is rotated slightly (in the same plane as the
>tape motion), then the head gap will not be vertical (and will thus be
>non-perpendicular to the direction of tape motion).
>
>If axis X is the direction of tape motion, axis Y is across the width
>of the tape, and axis Z is "through the tape", then an azimuth error
>is the result of a rotation in the XY plane.
>
>This will result in the head gap "cutting across" the patterns of
>magnetic flux recorded in the domains in the tape, and will result in
>partial cancellation of the higher-frequency components of the signal.
>Net result: the sound is "dull".

That is what I thought

SO azimuth error would increase crosstalk in 1/4 track tapes nd that
would be a sign that the head is out of azimuth alignment



Abbedd

[Ron Capik]

ansermetniac wrote:

> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 11:07:08 -0800, (Dave Platt)
> wrote:
>
> < ......snip.. >
> >Net result: the sound is "dull".
>
> That is what I thought
>
> SO azimuth error would increase crosstalk in 1/4 track tapes nd that
> would be a sign that the head is out of azimuth alignment
>
> Abbedd

I don't see how you reach that conclusion from
the "Net Result: " posted above.

Maybe you should take some time and draw the
various misalignment situations and think about
the effects of each. You may want to think about
how many degrees of freedom there are in the
tape record/play-back scenario.

[Sorry. I kind of hate when my students try to have
me do their thinking for them, and try to guide them
to ways to think about whatever it may be. ]


Later...

Ron Capik
--

[ansermetniac]

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 21:02:09 GMT, Ron Capik >
wrote:

>I don't see how you reach that conclusion from
>the "Net Result: " posted above.


And that is my problem?

Man.the pomposity factor hee is thick today

Am I the only one who undertands planes?

And I am not your student.

Abbedd

[Ron Capik]

ansermetniac wrote:

> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 21:02:09 GMT, Ron Capik >
> wrote:
>
> >I don't see how you reach that conclusion from
> >the "Net Result: " posted above.
>
> And that is my problem?

Well, it sure as heck isn't my problem.

> Man.the pomposity factor hee is thick today

Guess you haven't spent much time here...

> Am I the only one who undertands planes?

[No response.]

> And I am not your student.

Fine, then pay no attention to me.

> Abbedd

[Probably not] Later...

Ron Capik
--

[ansermetniac]

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 23:32:12 GMT, Ron Capik >
wrote:

>ansermetniac wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 21:02:09 GMT, Ron Capik >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >I don't see how you reach that conclusion from
>> >the "Net Result: " posted above.
>>
>> And that is my problem?
>
>Well, it sure as heck isn't my problem.
>
>> Man.the pomposity factor hee is thick today
>
>Guess you haven't spent much time here...
>
>> Am I the only one who undertands planes?
>
>[No response.]
>
>> And I am not your student.
>
>Fine, then pay no attention to me.
>
>> Abbedd
>
>[Probably not] Later...
>
>Ron Capik

Mr.Capik.

Just curious--what have you contributed to the World that makes you
think you can be so pompous?

Abbedd

[Dave Platt]

>SO azimuth error would increase crosstalk in 1/4 track tapes nd that
>would be a sign that the head is out of azimuth alignment

In theory, I suppose it might... but I wouldn't think so, in practice.
You'd need really extreme azimuth misalignment to rotate the outermost
track's head gap far enough into the tape path to bring its inner end
past the inter-track guard area on the tape and into the next track.

At a rough guess I'd expect you'd have to have the head rotated by 15
or 20 degrees in order for this to happen. I'm not at all sure that a
head *can* be misaligned that far, even deliberately.

Loss of high-frequency response during playback is the usual sign of
azimuth error. Another is a relative phase error between the left and
right channels... this might be audible.

--
Dave Platt > AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

[Kevin McMurtrie[_2_]]

In article >,
"Richard Crowley" > wrote:

> "ansermetniac" wrote...
> > Running away with your tail between your legs won't increase your
> > understanding of the subject
> >
> > Pompousity gets you nowhere.Learnig gets you everywhere
>
> LOL! :-))

This thread is awesome!

Abbedd's postings embody every dumb asshole service technician I've ever
met. I can see the azimuth adjustment spring launching across the room
followed by a confident explanation that customer damage, thus voiding
all warranty, has just been proven. Sears will totally hire him.

--
Google is a pro-spamming service. I will not see your reply if you use Google.

[bg]

ansermetniac wrote in message ...
>On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 23:32:12 GMT, Ron Capik >
>wrote:
>
>>ansermetniac wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 21:02:09 GMT, Ron Capik >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >I don't see how you reach that conclusion from
>>> >the "Net Result: " posted above.
>>>
>>> And that is my problem?
>>
>>Well, it sure as heck isn't my problem.
>>
>>> Man.the pomposity factor hee is thick today
>>
>>Guess you haven't spent much time here...
>>
>>> Am I the only one who undertands planes?
>>
>>[No response.]
>>
>>> And I am not your student.
>>
>>Fine, then pay no attention to me.
>>
>>> Abbedd
>>
>>[Probably not] Later...
>>
>>Ron Capik
>
>Mr.Capik.
>
>Just curious--what have you contributed to the World that makes you
>think you can be so pompous?
>
>Abbedd
Let me give this a shot -
The Y axis adjusts head height. All tracks and all frequencies are affected
equally. When the plbk head is not lined up with the tracks on the tape, the
output drops in direct proportion.
The X axis does not have an effect on alignment, but it can affect tape
wrap, which is just another way of saying that you can end up with poor tape
to head contact. Some heads can be rotated in the X axis where as others
shape the face of the head so that the tape will naturally wrap around the
gap.
The Z axis does not affect alignment but again, it's a matter of tape to
head contact. If the head is backed off too far from the tape, or the tape
wrap around the gap is incorrect, high frequencies fall off more than low.
When you have a wad of dirt on the head, the tape does not make good contact
with the gap which acts exactly like having the head backed away from the
tape in the z axis.
Azimuth is a different thing together. I guess you could visualize the point
where x, y and z come together. X is parallel to the tape. If the X and Y
axis rotate together about the intersection so that x is not parallel to the
tape, and y is not perpendicular, then you have an azimuth misalignment.
Azimuth affects high frequencies. If the azimuth is way out, obviuosly
tracks can overlap. How far depends on the tape format. But for typical tape
formats I'd think it would be very visible that the head is tilted off axis.

[Richard Crowley]

"Kevin McMurtrie" wrote
> "Richard Crowley" wrote:
>> "ansermetniac" wrote...
>> > Running away with your tail between your legs won't increase your
>> > understanding of the subject
>> >
>> > Pompousity gets you nowhere.Learnig gets you everywhere
>>
>> LOL! :-))
>
> This thread is awesome!
>
> Abbedd's postings embody every dumb asshole service technician I've ever
> met. I can see the azimuth adjustment spring launching across the room
> followed by a confident explanation that customer damage, thus voiding
> all warranty, has just been proven. Sears will totally hire him.

He is rather like the famous troll "Radium" (and other aliases).
First, he sets up a faulty strawman argument: that azimuth
adjustment somehow "violates" (whatever that means?) a plane.
Then he complains when nobody can explain it.

I still cant figure out what his point is. And perhaps the problem
is that he doesn't actually HAVE a point. All the head adjustments
seem obvious upon inspection to most anyone who can peek under
the head cover without resorting to theoretical "planes" and "violations".

[John Phillips[_2_]]

On 2008-12-26, Richard Crowley > wrote:
>
> "ansermetniac" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 15:30:54 -0000, "Serge Auckland"
>> > wrote:
>>>"ansermetniac" > wrote in message
...
>>>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 14:23:48 -0000, "Serge Auckland"
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>"ansermetniac" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 10:49:41 -0000, "Serge Auckland"
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>> Tape azimuth is the rotation of the head gap relative to the
>>>>>>> direction of motion of the tape, in the same plane as the
>>>>>>> tape motion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the head is out of adjustment it is off in one of the three
>>>>>> planes.Which plane is azimuth?
>>>>>
>>>>> The same plane that the tape is in.
>>>>
>>>> Impossible
>>>
>>> If you don't like the answer, then don't ask the f'ing question
>>
>> Your answer shows a lack of understanding of the question.In order for
>> a head to be out of alingment it must violate the space of one or more
>> of the three planes
>>
>> Don't undertstand the question. Don't give a f'ing answer
>
> Since everyone here likely thinks that Mr. Auckland is giving
> the correct answer. Perhaps you are having a problem
> properly stating your question. The answer is immediately
> apparent to anyone who actually examines a tape deck, so
> perhaps we are confused why you are even asking it?

As you say, Serge is perfectly correct. It seems the OP just does not
understand enough geometry to convert the practically-oriented answer
into his rather academic (homework-style?) formulation.

For the OP (assuming I remember the problem formulation correctly):

When the tape head is correctly adjusted on a tape machine the head gap
lies along the Y axis. Alternatively speaking correct adjustment is
achieved when the head gap is normal to the XZ plane.

Azimuth alignment error in the tape deck context is nominally the angle
of rotation of the head gap around the Z axis, relative to the Y axis
(i.e. a rotation in the XY plane - the same plane as the tape is in,
as Serge said).

For completeness there are two other alignment errors: rotation of the
head gap round the X axis (i.e. in the YZ plane); and translation of
the head gap in the Y direction.

--
John Phillips

[ansermetniac]

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 22:34:32 -0700, "bg" > wrote:

>
>ansermetniac wrote in message ...
>>On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 23:32:12 GMT, Ron Capik >
>>wrote:
>>
>>>ansermetniac wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 21:02:09 GMT, Ron Capik >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >I don't see how you reach that conclusion from
>>>> >the "Net Result: " posted above.
>>>>
>>>> And that is my problem?
>>>
>>>Well, it sure as heck isn't my problem.
>>>
>>>> Man.the pomposity factor hee is thick today
>>>
>>>Guess you haven't spent much time here...
>>>
>>>> Am I the only one who undertands planes?
>>>
>>>[No response.]
>>>
>>>> And I am not your student.
>>>
>>>Fine, then pay no attention to me.
>>>
>>>> Abbedd
>>>
>>>[Probably not] Later...
>>>
>>>Ron Capik
>>
>>Mr.Capik.
>>
>>Just curious--what have you contributed to the World that makes you
>>think you can be so pompous?
>>
>>Abbedd
>Let me give this a shot -
>The Y axis adjusts head height. All tracks and all frequencies are affected
>equally. When the plbk head is not lined up with the tracks on the tape, the
>output drops in direct proportion.
>The X axis does not have an effect on alignment, but it can affect tape
>wrap, which is just another way of saying that you can end up with poor tape
>to head contact. Some heads can be rotated in the X axis where as others
>shape the face of the head so that the tape will naturally wrap around the
>gap.
>The Z axis does not affect alignment but again, it's a matter of tape to
>head contact. If the head is backed off too far from the tape, or the tape
>wrap around the gap is incorrect, high frequencies fall off more than low.
>When you have a wad of dirt on the head, the tape does not make good contact
>with the gap which acts exactly like having the head backed away from the
>tape in the z axis.
>Azimuth is a different thing together. I guess you could visualize the point
>where x, y and z come together. X is parallel to the tape. If the X and Y
>axis rotate together about the intersection so that x is not parallel to the
>tape, and y is not perpendicular, then you have an azimuth misalignment.
>Azimuth affects high frequencies. If the azimuth is way out, obviuosly
>tracks can overlap. How far depends on the tape format. But for typical tape
>formats I'd think it would be very visible that the head is tilted off axis.
>

Finally an intelligent comment

Abbedd

[ansermetniac]

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 23:39:25 -0800, "Richard Crowley"
> wrote:

>First, he sets up a faulty strawman argument: that azimuth
>adjustment somehow "violates" (whatever that means?) a plane.
>Then he complains when nobody can explain it.


Read a book, for God S]sakes

Abbedd

[ansermetniac]

On 27 Dec 2008 10:05:32 GMT, John Phillips
> wrote:

>It seems the OP just does not
>understand enough geometry to convert the practically-oriented answer
>into his rather academic (homework-style?) formulation.

Gee, I design CNC machines because I don't understand Geometry

What a bunch of pompous fools in this ng

I guess the US patent office gsve me some patents because I am an
academic and can't make it in the real World

Abbedd

[ansermetniac]

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 21:28:39 -0800, Kevin McMurtrie
> wrote:

>In article >,
> "Richard Crowley" > wrote:
>
>> "ansermetniac" wrote...
>> > Running away with your tail between your legs won't increase your
>> > understanding of the subject
>> >
>> > Pompousity gets you nowhere.Learnig gets you everywhere
>>
>> LOL! :-))
>
>This thread is awesome!
>
>Abbedd's postings embody every dumb asshole service technician I've ever
>met. I can see the azimuth adjustment spring launching across the room
>followed by a confident explanation that customer damage, thus voiding
>all warranty, has just been proven. Sears will totally hire him.


Sorry, 30 years as Chief Engineer at the most inovative company in the
Music business made it impsooible for my to take Sears' offer

Abbedd

[Serge Auckland[_2_]]

"ansermetniac" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 11:07:08 -0800, (Dave Platt)
> wrote:
>
>>>My question was self explanatory and explained well.It should be
>>>understood by all who know geometry.
>>>
>>>Which plane is violated when azimuth is incorrect?
>>>
>>>Simple question. No answer has been given yet
>>
>>Azimuth error is a matter of *rotational* mis-alignment.
>>
>>The center of the head may be positioned correctly on all three axes.
>>However, if the head is rotated slightly (in the same plane as the
>>tape motion), then the head gap will not be vertical (and will thus be
>>non-perpendicular to the direction of tape motion).
>>
>>If axis X is the direction of tape motion, axis Y is across the width
>>of the tape, and axis Z is "through the tape", then an azimuth error
>>is the result of a rotation in the XY plane.
>>
>>This will result in the head gap "cutting across" the patterns of
>>magnetic flux recorded in the domains in the tape, and will result in
>>partial cancellation of the higher-frequency components of the signal.
>>Net result: the sound is "dull".
>
> That is what I thought
>
> SO azimuth error would increase crosstalk in 1/4 track tapes nd that
> would be a sign that the head is out of azimuth alignment
>
>
>
> Abbedd
>
>
>
No, not necessarily. Azimuth errors are TINY, and as there's a guard-band
between tracks, the azimuth error would have to be HUGE before crosstalk
started being noticed. If you're getting crosstalk, that's a sign that the
head is out of vertical alignment, not rotational alignment.
S.

--
http://audiopages.googlepages.com

[ansermetniac]

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 16:47:35 -0000, "Serge Auckland"
> wrote:

>
>"ansermetniac" > wrote in message
...
>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 11:07:08 -0800, (Dave Platt)
>> wrote:
>>
>>>>My question was self explanatory and explained well.It should be
>>>>understood by all who know geometry.
>>>>
>>>>Which plane is violated when azimuth is incorrect?
>>>>
>>>>Simple question. No answer has been given yet
>>>
>>>Azimuth error is a matter of *rotational* mis-alignment.
>>>
>>>The center of the head may be positioned correctly on all three axes.
>>>However, if the head is rotated slightly (in the same plane as the
>>>tape motion), then the head gap will not be vertical (and will thus be
>>>non-perpendicular to the direction of tape motion).
>>>
>>>If axis X is the direction of tape motion, axis Y is across the width
>>>of the tape, and axis Z is "through the tape", then an azimuth error
>>>is the result of a rotation in the XY plane.
>>>
>>>This will result in the head gap "cutting across" the patterns of
>>>magnetic flux recorded in the domains in the tape, and will result in
>>>partial cancellation of the higher-frequency components of the signal.
>>>Net result: the sound is "dull".
>>
>> That is what I thought
>>
>> SO azimuth error would increase crosstalk in 1/4 track tapes nd that
>> would be a sign that the head is out of azimuth alignment
>>
>>
>>
>> Abbedd
>>
>>
>>
>No, not necessarily. Azimuth errors are TINY, and as there's a guard-band
>between tracks, the azimuth error would have to be HUGE before crosstalk
>started being noticed. If you're getting crosstalk, that's a sign that the
>head is out of vertical alignment, not rotational alignment.
>S.

Why vertical? That just makes the tape farther from the heads

Abbedd

[Kevin McMurtrie[_2_]]

In article >,
ansermetniac > wrote:

> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 21:28:39 -0800, Kevin McMurtrie
> > wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > "Richard Crowley" > wrote:
> >
> >> "ansermetniac" wrote...
> >> > Running away with your tail between your legs won't increase your
> >> > understanding of the subject
> >> >
> >> > Pompousity gets you nowhere.Learnig gets you everywhere
> >>
> >> LOL! :-))
> >
> >This thread is awesome!
> >
> >Abbedd's postings embody every dumb asshole service technician I've ever
> >met. I can see the azimuth adjustment spring launching across the room
> >followed by a confident explanation that customer damage, thus voiding
> >all warranty, has just been proven. Sears will totally hire him.
>
>
> Sorry, 30 years as Chief Engineer at the most inovative company in the
> Music business made it impsooible for my to take Sears' offer
>
> Abbedd

That's sad. If I worked as a "Chief Engineer" in the music business,
even machining Dave Guardala Mouthpieces, I would have learned the
sciences behind audio recording and reproduction long before 30 years of
my career had come and gone. More people will hear saxophones recorded
than live. It all ties together.

--
Google is a pro-spamming service. I will not see your reply if you use Google.

[ansermetniac]

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 09:57:09 -0800, Kevin McMurtrie
> wrote:

>In article >,
> ansermetniac > wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 21:28:39 -0800, Kevin McMurtrie
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >In article >,
>> > "Richard Crowley" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> "ansermetniac" wrote...
>> >> > Running away with your tail between your legs won't increase your
>> >> > understanding of the subject
>> >> >
>> >> > Pompousity gets you nowhere.Learnig gets you everywhere
>> >>
>> >> LOL! :-))
>> >
>> >This thread is awesome!
>> >
>> >Abbedd's postings embody every dumb asshole service technician I've ever
>> >met. I can see the azimuth adjustment spring launching across the room
>> >followed by a confident explanation that customer damage, thus voiding
>> >all warranty, has just been proven. Sears will totally hire him.
>>
>>
>> Sorry, 30 years as Chief Engineer at the most inovative company in the
>> Music business made it impsooible for my to take Sears' offer
>>
>> Abbedd
>
>That's sad. If I worked as a "Chief Engineer" in the music business,
>even machining Dave Guardala Mouthpieces, I would have learned the
>sciences behind audio recording and reproduction long before 30 years of
>my career had come and gone. More people will hear saxophones recorded
>than live. It all ties together.

It appears you are clueless as to what goes into designing a Musical
instrument

Abbedd

[[email protected]]

On Dec 27, 7:33 am, ansermetniac
> I guess the US patent office gave me some
> patents because I am an academic and can't
> make it in the real World

The fact that you got a patent is about the least
impressive achievement I can think of.

The USPTO has recently issued a patent for
a layering of garnish, meat products and other
food products all between layers of bread.
In other words, they granted a patent for the
sandwich (it has been recinded, thankfully).

They have issued patents for anti-gravity
devices that violate basic physics, for clear
and obvious devices that are known to those
skilled in the art, for non-existent items,
and more.

MANY academics are granted patents. The difference
being is that they likely know something.

[Serge Auckland[_2_]]

"ansermetniac" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 16:47:35 -0000, "Serge Auckland"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"ansermetniac" > wrote in message
...
>>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 11:07:08 -0800, (Dave Platt)
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>My question was self explanatory and explained well.It should be
>>>>>understood by all who know geometry.
>>>>>
>>>>>Which plane is violated when azimuth is incorrect?
>>>>>
>>>>>Simple question. No answer has been given yet
>>>>
>>>>Azimuth error is a matter of *rotational* mis-alignment.
>>>>
>>>>The center of the head may be positioned correctly on all three axes.
>>>>However, if the head is rotated slightly (in the same plane as the
>>>>tape motion), then the head gap will not be vertical (and will thus be
>>>>non-perpendicular to the direction of tape motion).
>>>>
>>>>If axis X is the direction of tape motion, axis Y is across the width
>>>>of the tape, and axis Z is "through the tape", then an azimuth error
>>>>is the result of a rotation in the XY plane.
>>>>
>>>>This will result in the head gap "cutting across" the patterns of
>>>>magnetic flux recorded in the domains in the tape, and will result in
>>>>partial cancellation of the higher-frequency components of the signal.
>>>>Net result: the sound is "dull".
>>>
>>> That is what I thought
>>>
>>> SO azimuth error would increase crosstalk in 1/4 track tapes nd that
>>> would be a sign that the head is out of azimuth alignment
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Abbedd
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>No, not necessarily. Azimuth errors are TINY, and as there's a guard-band
>>between tracks, the azimuth error would have to be HUGE before crosstalk
>>started being noticed. If you're getting crosstalk, that's a sign that the
>>head is out of vertical alignment, not rotational alignment.
>>S.
>
> Why vertical? That just makes the tape farther from the heads
>
> Abbedd

I've lost the will to live........

S.

--
http://audiopages.googlepages.com

[ansermetniac]

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 18:39:24 -0000, "Serge Auckland"
> wrote:

>
>"ansermetniac" > wrote in message
...
>> On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 16:47:35 -0000, "Serge Auckland"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"ansermetniac" > wrote in message
...
>>>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 11:07:08 -0800, (Dave Platt)
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>My question was self explanatory and explained well.It should be
>>>>>>understood by all who know geometry.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Which plane is violated when azimuth is incorrect?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Simple question. No answer has been given yet
>>>>>
>>>>>Azimuth error is a matter of *rotational* mis-alignment.
>>>>>
>>>>>The center of the head may be positioned correctly on all three axes.
>>>>>However, if the head is rotated slightly (in the same plane as the
>>>>>tape motion), then the head gap will not be vertical (and will thus be
>>>>>non-perpendicular to the direction of tape motion).
>>>>>
>>>>>If axis X is the direction of tape motion, axis Y is across the width
>>>>>of the tape, and axis Z is "through the tape", then an azimuth error
>>>>>is the result of a rotation in the XY plane.
>>>>>
>>>>>This will result in the head gap "cutting across" the patterns of
>>>>>magnetic flux recorded in the domains in the tape, and will result in
>>>>>partial cancellation of the higher-frequency components of the signal.
>>>>>Net result: the sound is "dull".
>>>>
>>>> That is what I thought
>>>>
>>>> SO azimuth error would increase crosstalk in 1/4 track tapes nd that
>>>> would be a sign that the head is out of azimuth alignment
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Abbedd
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>No, not necessarily. Azimuth errors are TINY, and as there's a guard-band
>>>between tracks, the azimuth error would have to be HUGE before crosstalk
>>>started being noticed. If you're getting crosstalk, that's a sign that the
>>>head is out of vertical alignment, not rotational alignment.
>>>S.
>>
>> Why vertical? That just makes the tape farther from the heads
>>
>> Abbedd
>
>I've lost the will to live........
>
>S.


You said vertical. Not me

Abbedd

[ansermetniac]

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 10:38:41 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

>On Dec 27, 7:33 am, ansermetniac
>> I guess the US patent office gave me some
>> patents because I am an academic and can't
>> make it in the real World
>
>The fact that you got a patent is about the least
>impressive achievement I can think of.
>
>The USPTO has recently issued a patent for
>a layering of garnish, meat products and other
>food products all between layers of bread.
>In other words, they granted a patent for the
>sandwich (it has been recinded, thankfully).
>
>They have issued patents for anti-gravity
>devices that violate basic physics, for clear
>and obvious devices that are known to those
>skilled in the art, for non-existent items,
>and more.
>
>MANY academics are granted patents. The difference
>being is that they likely know something.


I suggest you see Back To School and Annie Hall for a real view of
academia compared to the real world

In academia a saxophone and mouthpiece do not vibrate

Academia is where one gets prepared to start learning in the real
world, if one needs that preperation

Abbedd

[Richard Crowley]

"Serge Auckland" wrote ...
> "ansermetniac" wrote ...
>> Why vertical? That just makes the tape farther from the heads
>>
>> Abbedd
>
> I've lost the will to live........

If we trace the headers it may reveal that this guy is posting from
an alternative universe where orthogonal dimensions are unknown.
Or at least labeled different than ours'. :-))

PS: I not only have a patent but I use my real name and you can
look it up.

[ansermetniac]

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 13:16:36 -0800, "Richard Crowley"
> wrote:

>"Serge Auckland" wrote ...
>> "ansermetniac" wrote ...
>>> Why vertical? That just makes the tape farther from the heads
>>>
>>> Abbedd
>>
>> I've lost the will to live........
>
>If we trace the headers it may reveal that this guy is posting from
>an alternative universe where orthogonal dimensions are unknown.
>Or at least labeled different than ours'. :-))
>
>PS: I not only have a patent but I use my real name and you can
>look it up.
>


And you are a pompous ass who builds his sorry life up by trying to
bring others down to your level of incompetence. Try someone else.

Planes are planes in any field or world. There are only three axiis.It
shouldn't take you too much time to memorize them. But you are too
stupid to ever understand them

Abbedd