Speaker position.

[Mal]

Folks,
New to this group as you might gather, but I was certainly happy enough with
the groups' responses to my earlier query re Optical vs Digital, that I am
inclined to post yet another.

Long story short, I now have the 'domestic' opportunity to really sort out
the positioning of my speakers...some of you probably know what I mean ;-)

The speakers are far too wide apart.

Now I am not unfamiliar with what needs to be done, but have not till now
had the opportunity to properly sort out the staging. While sounding
OK-sort-of for a number of years I knew that if I positioned the speakers
properly I'd be more happier.

My speakers are large (bulky and heavy and sit on heavy stands) so I don't
want to keep shifting them around too much (if I damage the floor I am a
dead man). So I need a starting point.

I read yesterday that, as a rule of thumb; to give one a place to start,
that the distance from the speakers to the listening position should be
approx 1.5 x the distance between the speakers. Given that my listening
position is largely fixed (3.2m) and the distance from the back of the
speaker to the wall provides me with the LF behaviour I like, this should be
a relatively easy task (perhaps not who knows!?).

So does anyone concur with this R-o-T or is there a better 'place' (ratio)
to start from?. I understand that finding the sweet spot will take some
time, but a starting point would be handy I think.

Cheers
Mal
Oz
P.S. if it helps speakers are 3-way, 12" LF, 5" MF and 1" horn loaded HF.
Rear ported bass reflex (yeah not technically correct term I know, but the
port is in the back - outside edge). Mirror image baffles.

[Jens Rodrigo]

Mal > wrote:
> New to this group as you might gather, but I was certainly happy enough
> with the groups' responses to my earlier query re Optical vs Digital, that
> I am inclined to post yet another.
> Long story short, I now have the 'domestic' opportunity to really sort out
> the positioning of my speakers...some of you probably know what I mean ;-)
> The speakers are far too wide apart.
> Now I am not unfamiliar with what needs to be done, but have not till now
> had the opportunity to properly sort out the staging. While sounding
> OK-sort-of for a number of years I knew that if I positioned the speakers
> properly I'd be more happier.
> My speakers are large (bulky and heavy and sit on heavy stands) so I don't
> want to keep shifting them around too much (if I damage the floor I am a
> dead man). So I need a starting point.


Here are some starting points:

http://www.googlecom/search?q=Stereo+speaker+positioning

Cheers Jens

[Jens Rodrigo]

Sorry, again the URL - something was missing.

Here are some starting points:

http://www.google.com/search?q=Stereo+speaker+positioning

Cheers Jens

[Mal Thomas]

On 16/12/08 3:36 AM, in article , "Jens
Rodrigo" > wrote:

> Sorry, again the URL - something was missing.
>
> Here are some starting points:
>
> http://www.google.com/search?q=Stereo+speaker+positioning
>
> Cheers Jens
>
>
Thanks Jens, I have already spent considerable time on Google before posting
here. Have read quite a few theories, ideas etc all of which I have noted,
taken on board, printed etc.

My question was specific to what is a good starting point for the reasons
outlined in my post. Despite reading plenty of internet literature I
couldn't seem to find any consensus on that point.

So I thought I'd ask here.

Cheers
Mal
Oz

[Eeyore]

Mal wrote:

> Folks,
> New to this group as you might gather, but I was certainly happy enough with
> the groups' responses to my earlier query re Optical vs Digital, that I am
> inclined to post yet another.
>
> Long story short, I now have the 'domestic' opportunity to really sort out
> the positioning of my speakers...some of you probably know what I mean ;-)

First thing is to learn about open-space, half-space, quarter-space and
eighth-space (corner) placement.

Sory you'll have to Google yourself. I tried and it threw up loads of
half-helpful links but you'll need to trawl.

Here's a quicky.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-space

It has a collosal impact on bass response.

Graham

[Eeyore]

Mal wrote:

> Folks,
> New to this group as you might gather, but I was certainly happy enough with
> the groups' responses to my earlier query re Optical vs Digital, that I am
> inclined to post yet another.
>
> Long story short, I now have the 'domestic' opportunity to really sort out
> the positioning of my speakers...some of you probably know what I mean ;-)
>
> The speakers are far too wide apart.

What's the sixe of the room and in which locations are the speakers ?

Graham

[Mal Thomas]

On 16/12/08 7:53 AM, in article , "Eeyore"
> wrote:

>
>
> Mal wrote:
>
>> Folks,
>> New to this group as you might gather, but I was certainly happy enough with
>> the groups' responses to my earlier query re Optical vs Digital, that I am
>> inclined to post yet another.
>>
>> Long story short, I now have the 'domestic' opportunity to really sort out
>> the positioning of my speakers...some of you probably know what I mean ;-)
>
> First thing is to learn about open-space, half-space, quarter-space and
> eighth-space (corner) placement.
>
> Sory you'll have to Google yourself. I tried and it threw up loads of
> half-helpful links but you'll need to trawl.
>
> Here's a quicky.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-space
>
> It has a collosal impact on bass response.
>
> Graham
>

I'll try to answer your two posts here Graham..

Yes thanks, I did come across a couple of these articles, very informative.
But due to practical limitations I can only manage to get the boxes about 2
feet from the wall at their closest point. While this is far from ideal, the
LF has been cleaned up considerably. They are also away from the corners.

The problem I have is the 'hole' in the middle of the stage. This
necessitates moving moving the speakers closer together and getting an
appropriate amount of toe-in (by trial and error).

The room is hard to describe....the listening area (my lounge) is 4.7m wide
x 4.1m. But this area is approximately 1/3rd of the overall size of the
physical room. The lounge, dining area and kitchen are effectively one huge
rectangular room separated by furniture and function. Ceiling height is 2.4.

The speakers are situated along the long wall of my lounge (double brick
wall behind) and I sit on the opposite side, with the back of my sofa facing
the remaining 2/3rds of the room. The listening position is approx 3.2m.

But as I said in my OP the speakers and stands are very heavy and I just
wanted to find out an approximate starting point as I don't want to shift
them too much.
BTW the floor is hard wood with a hard vinyl laminate.

Appreciate your time,

Cheers
Mal
Oz

[Eberhard Sengpiel]

"Mal Thomas" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
> Thanks Jens, I have already spent considerable time on Google before
> posting
> here. Have read quite a few theories, ideas etc all of which I have noted,
> taken on board, printed etc.
> My question was specific to what is a good starting point for the reasons
> outlined in my post. Despite reading plenty of internet literature I
> couldn't seem to find any consensus on that point.
> So I thought I'd ask here.

The stereo loudspeakers and the listener's head should build such a
equilateral or equiangular triangle:
http://www.mathepedia.de/html/7_geometrie/f_elemgeo/a_planimetrie/Gleichseitiges_spitzwinkliges_Dreieck.aspx?w=100&h=100

So the distance between the loudspeakers has to be 0.866 times
the distance from the center of the loudspeaker line to the listener.
This setup is usually used during the recording.
What you are really doing at home is another thing:
One speaker under the sofa one on the wardrobe,
or one in the kitchen and one in the bathroom.

Best regards

Ebs

[Mal Thomas]

On 16/12/08 7:55 AM, in article , "Eeyore"
> wrote:

>
>
> Mal wrote:
>
>> Folks,
>> New to this group as you might gather, but I was certainly happy enough with
>> the groups' responses to my earlier query re Optical vs Digital, that I am
>> inclined to post yet another.
>>
>> Long story short, I now have the 'domestic' opportunity to really sort out
>> the positioning of my speakers...some of you probably know what I mean ;-)
>>
>> The speakers are far too wide apart.
>
> What's the sixe of the room and in which locations are the speakers ?
>
> Graham
>

Wow ! I was expecting (hoping) for some difference, but never envisaged at
all what I am hearing now.

Depth from the rear wall didn't change much, but brought the speakers
together by nearly a metre. Still need to listen more and probably make
some more adjustments, but Wow !

Was listening to Wynton Marsalis Live at the House of Tribes. I swear to
god that with your eyes closed you would not be ridiculed for expecting the
waiter to pop over and offer you a drink !

Best thing I have ever done.

Thanks - very much appreciated.

Cheers
Mal
Oz