World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ? [Archive]

Mal Thomas

December 11th 08, 02:10 PM

On 11/12/08 10:58 PM, in article 49431c59.85744578@localhost, "Don Pearce "
<> wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:56:03 GMT, Mal Thomas >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 11/12/08 10:46 PM, in article 494219bf.85078015@localhost, "Don Pearce "
>> <> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:43:52 GMT, Mal Thomas >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I came across this today...
>>>> http://www.highendcable.co.uk/Nordost%20ODIN%20interconnect.htm
>>>>
>>>> Are these the most expensive available ?? Over GBP10,000 for a 1.0m
>>>> interconnect, down here in the colonies one can buy a reasonable car for
>>>> this amount.
>>>>
>>>> I quite appreciate, from personal experience, that a decent set of cables
>>>> can make a difference, even on my aging system, but is there really any
>>>> tangible value of something like this ?
>>>>
>>>> Is the technology in these cables, for instance, really worth the money
>>>> they
>>>> are asking ? Nordost obviously think so.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Mal
>>>> Oz
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> TROLL ALERT!
>>>
>>> d
>> Sorry, no troll - not selling anything, don't own a shop or business, got
>> absolutely nothing to do with Nordost or the shop in the UK...was simply
>> curious to find out if any cable, regardless of it's brand was worth this
>> kind of money.
>>
> No, that would be a shill. A troll is someone who drops a known
> argument-starter into the pot.
>
> d
Please accept my apologies, honestly. Didn't think it would start an
argument and was definitely not my intent. There are people I am sure who
can afford and can probably justify them. And I am not suggesting that they
are not value for money at all, but was just curious to hear opinions from
others who may be able to afford such kit.
I am in no position at all to place any counter arguments to anyone; I
simply don't have the experience nor expertise. As I said my only motivation
was shear curiosity.

I'm having problems justifying a few hundred dollars at the moment for a
set of cables which I am reasonably certain will make a big difference on my
system compared to the el cheapos I have had for years. I was just amazed
to see these.

Cheers
Mal
Oz

jamesgangnc

December 11th 08, 02:41 PM

You are wasting your time spending hundreds of dollars on cable. Any decent
cables are going to be indistinguishable from hundred dollar cables in a
blind ab test. The wire simply does not make a difference when you are
dealling with the audio frequency range.

"Mal Thomas" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> On 11/12/08 10:58 PM, in article 49431c59.85744578@localhost, "Don Pearce
> "
> <> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:56:03 GMT, Mal Thomas >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/12/08 10:46 PM, in article 494219bf.85078015@localhost, "Don
>>> Pearce "
>>> <> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:43:52 GMT, Mal Thomas >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I came across this today...
>>>>> http://www.highendcable.co.uk/Nordost%20ODIN%20interconnect.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> Are these the most expensive available ?? Over GBP10,000 for a 1.0m
>>>>> interconnect, down here in the colonies one can buy a reasonable car
>>>>> for
>>>>> this amount.
>>>>>
>>>>> I quite appreciate, from personal experience, that a decent set of
>>>>> cables
>>>>> can make a difference, even on my aging system, but is there really
>>>>> any
>>>>> tangible value of something like this ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Is the technology in these cables, for instance, really worth the
>>>>> money
>>>>> they
>>>>> are asking ? Nordost obviously think so.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>> Mal
>>>>> Oz
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> TROLL ALERT!
>>>>
>>>> d
>>> Sorry, no troll - not selling anything, don't own a shop or business,
>>> got
>>> absolutely nothing to do with Nordost or the shop in the UK...was simply
>>> curious to find out if any cable, regardless of it's brand was worth
>>> this
>>> kind of money.
>>>
>> No, that would be a shill. A troll is someone who drops a known
>> argument-starter into the pot.
>>
>> d
> Please accept my apologies, honestly. Didn't think it would start an
> argument and was definitely not my intent. There are people I am sure who
> can afford and can probably justify them. And I am not suggesting that
> they
> are not value for money at all, but was just curious to hear opinions from
> others who may be able to afford such kit.
> I am in no position at all to place any counter arguments to anyone; I
> simply don't have the experience nor expertise. As I said my only
> motivation
> was shear curiosity.
>
> I'm having problems justifying a few hundred dollars at the moment for a
> set of cables which I am reasonably certain will make a big difference on
> my
> system compared to the el cheapos I have had for years. I was just amazed
> to see these.
>
> Cheers
> Mal
> Oz
>

Richard Crowley

December 11th 08, 05:09 PM

"Mal Thomas" wrote ...
> Please accept my apologies, honestly. Didn't think it would start an
> argument and was definitely not my intent. There are people I am sure who
> can afford and can probably justify them.

And those would be people with a great deal more money than
common sense. And/or those with fantasy-land notions of what
they can hear.

> And I am not suggesting that they
> are not value for money at all, but was just curious to hear opinions from
> others who may be able to afford such kit.

I feel no reservation in declaring that they are, in fact, NOT value
for the money. At 10K per meter, you could use solid bars of gold.

> I am in no position at all to place any counter arguments to anyone; I
> simply don't have the experience nor expertise. As I said my only
> motivation
> was shear curiosity.

Consider the common-sense fact that such botique, snake-oil cables
are never used in the *production* side of making those recordings.
Does it make sense that after going through dozens of steps in tracking,
mixing, mastering, pressing, etc. using very ordinary cables, any actual
improvement can be made with a metre or two of magic cable at the
playback end of the chain?

Do you think that the people who care very much about sound and
do it for a living wouldn't use these magic cables if they really made
any significant difference?

But then 12% of people in my country also believe that Elvis Presley
is still alive and flipping burgers in the midwest somewhere.

> I'm having problems justifying a few hundred dollars at the moment for a
> set of cables which I am reasonably certain will make a big difference on
> my
> system compared to the el cheapos I have had for years. I was just amazed
> to see these.

I don't even believe that "a few hundred dollars" is a reasonable price for
completely flawless reproduction of music in a home playback system.
The only "magic" in cables is the enormous profit margin of those willing
to take advantage of the gullible.

gareth magennis

December 11th 08, 08:05 PM

"Mal Thomas" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> On 11/12/08 10:58 PM, in article 49431c59.85744578@localhost, "Don Pearce
> "
> <> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:56:03 GMT, Mal Thomas >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/12/08 10:46 PM, in article 494219bf.85078015@localhost, "Don
>>> Pearce "
>>> <> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:43:52 GMT, Mal Thomas >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I came across this today...
>>>>> http://www.highendcable.co.uk/Nordost%20ODIN%20interconnect.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> Are these the most expensive available ?? Over GBP10,000 for a 1.0m
>>>>> interconnect, down here in the colonies one can buy a reasonable car
>>>>> for
>>>>> this amount.
>>>>>
>>>>> I quite appreciate, from personal experience, that a decent set of
>>>>> cables
>>>>> can make a difference, even on my aging system, but is there really
>>>>> any
>>>>> tangible value of something like this ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Is the technology in these cables, for instance, really worth the
>>>>> money
>>>>> they
>>>>> are asking ? Nordost obviously think so.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>> Mal
>>>>> Oz
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> TROLL ALERT!
>>>>
>>>> d
>>> Sorry, no troll - not selling anything, don't own a shop or business,
>>> got
>>> absolutely nothing to do with Nordost or the shop in the UK...was simply
>>> curious to find out if any cable, regardless of it's brand was worth
>>> this
>>> kind of money.
>>>
>> No, that would be a shill. A troll is someone who drops a known
>> argument-starter into the pot.
>>
>> d
> Please accept my apologies, honestly. Didn't think it would start an
> argument and was definitely not my intent. There are people I am sure who
> can afford and can probably justify them. And I am not suggesting that
> they
> are not value for money at all, but was just curious to hear opinions from
> others who may be able to afford such kit.
> I am in no position at all to place any counter arguments to anyone; I
> simply don't have the experience nor expertise. As I said my only
> motivation
> was shear curiosity.
>
> I'm having problems justifying a few hundred dollars at the moment for a
> set of cables which I am reasonably certain will make a big difference on
> my
> system compared to the el cheapos I have had for years. I was just amazed
> to see these.
>
> Cheers
> Mal
> Oz
>

If you are reasonably certain it will make a big difference then it probably
will. The "Placebo Effect" in medicine is very well known and very well
studied, and, it works. That's what humans are capable of.

Before you commit to spending hundreds of dollars on interconnects, how
about having a bit of fun first, and getting people you know together with a
hi-fi and doing a proper double blind AB test with the cheapest possible 50
cent interconnects and the best interconnects you can muster between you,
and see who can tell the difference. Put some money in, the winner gets the
pot. Then decide what you want to spend your money on.

Gareth.

Geoff

December 11th 08, 10:13 PM

Mal Thomas wrote:
>
> I'm having problems justifying a few hundred dollars at the moment
> for a set of cables which I am reasonably certain will make a big
> difference on my system compared to the el cheapos I have had for
> years. I was just amazed to see these.

Don't apologise. Don is just having a moment, probably down to f*&%ing
Xmas.

You can save yourself a further hundred or more by simply going to Dick
Smith and spending ~$30 on their regular upper-end cables.

You will not hear any difference whatsoever between these, $200, or
UKP10,000 cables.

geoff

Don Pearce

December 11th 08, 10:16 PM

On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:13:10 +1300, "geoff" >
wrote:

>Mal Thomas wrote:
>>
>> I'm having problems justifying a few hundred dollars at the moment
>> for a set of cables which I am reasonably certain will make a big
>> difference on my system compared to the el cheapos I have had for
>> years. I was just amazed to see these.
>
>
>Don't apologise. Don is just having a moment, probably down to f*&%ing
>Xmas.
>
>You can save yourself a further hundred or more by simply going to Dick
>Smith and spending ~$30 on their regular upper-end cables.
>
>You will not hear any difference whatsoever between these, $200, or
>UKP10,000 cables.
>

Or the ones that come free with every bit of kit you buy.

And yes, I've already had a bellyful of f*&%ing Xmas.

d
--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Geoff

December 11th 08, 10:18 PM

Don Pearce wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:13:10 +1300, "geoff" >
>>
>
> Or the ones that come free with every bit of kit you buy.

Naa - wwith some the sheaths get brittle and fracture.

> And yes, I've already had a bellyful of f*&%ing Xmas.

It's all humbug ( or worse).

geoff

Don Pearce

December 11th 08, 10:20 PM

On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:18:05 +1300, "geoff" >
wrote:

>Don Pearce wrote:
>> On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:13:10 +1300, "geoff" >
>>>
>>
>> Or the ones that come free with every bit of kit you buy.
>
>Naa - wwith some the sheaths get brittle and fracture.
>

Don't sound any different though.

>> And yes, I've already had a bellyful of f*&%ing Xmas.
>
> It's all humbug ( or worse).
>

Problem is it starts just after easter in the shops. And easter will
start just after christmas.

d
--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Mal Thomas

December 11th 08, 11:10 PM

On 12/12/08 5:05 AM, in article , "Gareth
Magennis" > wrote:

>
> "Mal Thomas" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>
>> On 11/12/08 10:58 PM, in article 49431c59.85744578@localhost, "Don Pearce
>> "
>> <> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:56:03 GMT, Mal Thomas >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 11/12/08 10:46 PM, in article 494219bf.85078015@localhost, "Don
>>>> Pearce "
>>>> <> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:43:52 GMT, Mal Thomas >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I came across this today...
>>>>>> http://www.highendcable.co.uk/Nordost%20ODIN%20interconnect.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are these the most expensive available ?? Over GBP10,000 for a 1.0m
>>>>>> interconnect, down here in the colonies one can buy a reasonable car
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> this amount.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I quite appreciate, from personal experience, that a decent set of
>>>>>> cables
>>>>>> can make a difference, even on my aging system, but is there really
>>>>>> any
>>>>>> tangible value of something like this ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is the technology in these cables, for instance, really worth the
>>>>>> money
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> are asking ? Nordost obviously think so.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>> Mal
>>>>>> Oz
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> TROLL ALERT!
>>>>>
>>>>> d
>>>> Sorry, no troll - not selling anything, don't own a shop or business,
>>>> got
>>>> absolutely nothing to do with Nordost or the shop in the UK...was simply
>>>> curious to find out if any cable, regardless of it's brand was worth
>>>> this
>>>> kind of money.
>>>>
>>> No, that would be a shill. A troll is someone who drops a known
>>> argument-starter into the pot.
>>>
>>> d
>> Please accept my apologies, honestly. Didn't think it would start an
>> argument and was definitely not my intent. There are people I am sure who
>> can afford and can probably justify them. And I am not suggesting that
>> they
>> are not value for money at all, but was just curious to hear opinions from
>> others who may be able to afford such kit.
>> I am in no position at all to place any counter arguments to anyone; I
>> simply don't have the experience nor expertise. As I said my only
>> motivation
>> was shear curiosity.
>>
>> I'm having problems justifying a few hundred dollars at the moment for a
>> set of cables which I am reasonably certain will make a big difference on
>> my
>> system compared to the el cheapos I have had for years. I was just amazed
>> to see these.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Mal
>> Oz
>>
>
>
>
> If you are reasonably certain it will make a big difference then it probably
> will. The "Placebo Effect" in medicine is very well known and very well
> studied, and, it works. That's what humans are capable of.
>
..
>
Gareth, my assumption here was based on my experience when upgrading my
speaker cables some months back. I had been using a set of el cheapo,
twisted copper with clear insulation and I thought at the time they sounded
ok. That is I had not detected any problems with what I was hearing.

Anyway, I was in my local hi-fi retailer buying a new CD player and I saw
all these 'special' speaker cables on rolls; prices started at around A$15 a
metre to over A$100. I asked him, as I hadn't got a clue, whether these
really made a difference. Well he made a strange offer. He said to me "look
mate, buy some of the $15 a metre stuff and if you don't hear a difference
then come back and I'll refund your money". So apart from risking a return
trip to the hi-fi shop (always a risk!) I couldn't lose.

So I did just that, bought 6 metres of the stuff and hooked them up. Well
the difference on my kit was astounding. Bass was tighter, with more kick
and the top end, wow! I remember my wife was in the bathroom doing something
and she even came running into the lounge and asked what the f*** have you
done. Needless to say the cables are still on my speakers.

So, I am reasonably convinced that replacing my bargain basement
interconnects (they are basically what comes free with most kit these days)
with something with better construction, better conductors and connections,
should make some improvements. BTW the 'few hundred dollars' is to replace
all my interconnects not the individual price of the cables. >

> Before you commit to spending hundreds of dollars on interconnects, how
> about having a bit of fun first, and getting people you know together with a
> hi-fi and doing a proper double blind AB test with the cheapest possible 50
> cent interconnects and the best interconnects you can muster between you,
> and see who can tell the difference. Put some money in, the winner gets the
> pot. Then decide what you want to spend your money on

Ha ! My mates are also in the same boat - they are looking to me for
'leadership' here. So don't really have the opportunity to have a play
around. But having said that I think I just found a dealer willing to order
in what I want from Japan and let me have a A/B test with my existing cables
in his showroom.

Cheers
Mal
Oz

Mal Thomas

December 11th 08, 11:14 PM

On 12/12/08 7:20 AM, in article , "Don
Pearce" > wrote:

> On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:18:05 +1300, "geoff" >
> wrote:
>
>> Don Pearce wrote:
>>> On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:13:10 +1300, "geoff" >
>>>>
>>>
>>> Or the ones that come free with every bit of kit you buy.
>>
>> Naa - wwith some the sheaths get brittle and fracture.
>>
>
> Don't sound any different though.
>
>>> And yes, I've already had a bellyful of f*&%ing Xmas.
>>
>> It's all humbug ( or worse).
>>
>
> Problem is it starts just after easter in the shops. And easter will
> start just after christmas.
>
> d
I was in local mini-supermarket yesterday and I would swear that I saw a
broken up chocolate Easter Bunny in a plastic bag on the counter. Now it
might have been a Santa, but I'm pretty darn sure I saw very long ears.

Anyway on that note, time to go to work !

Have a good day folks.

Cheers
Mal
Oz

gareth magennis

December 11th 08, 11:30 PM

"Mal Thomas" > wrote in message
...
>
>
>
> On 12/12/08 5:05 AM, in article ,
> "Gareth
> Magennis" > wrote:
>
>>
>> "Mal Thomas" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/12/08 10:58 PM, in article 49431c59.85744578@localhost, "Don
>>> Pearce
>>> "
>>> <> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:56:03 GMT, Mal Thomas >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/12/08 10:46 PM, in article 494219bf.85078015@localhost, "Don
>>>>> Pearce "
>>>>> <> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:43:52 GMT, Mal Thomas >
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I came across this today...
>>>>>>> http://www.highendcable.co.uk/Nordost%20ODIN%20interconnect.htm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Are these the most expensive available ?? Over GBP10,000 for a
>>>>>>> 1.0m
>>>>>>> interconnect, down here in the colonies one can buy a reasonable car
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> this amount.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I quite appreciate, from personal experience, that a decent set of
>>>>>>> cables
>>>>>>> can make a difference, even on my aging system, but is there really
>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>> tangible value of something like this ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is the technology in these cables, for instance, really worth the
>>>>>>> money
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> are asking ? Nordost obviously think so.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>> Mal
>>>>>>> Oz
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> TROLL ALERT!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> d
>>>>> Sorry, no troll - not selling anything, don't own a shop or business,
>>>>> got
>>>>> absolutely nothing to do with Nordost or the shop in the UK...was
>>>>> simply
>>>>> curious to find out if any cable, regardless of it's brand was worth
>>>>> this
>>>>> kind of money.
>>>>>
>>>> No, that would be a shill. A troll is someone who drops a known
>>>> argument-starter into the pot.
>>>>
>>>> d
>>> Please accept my apologies, honestly. Didn't think it would start an
>>> argument and was definitely not my intent. There are people I am sure
>>> who
>>> can afford and can probably justify them. And I am not suggesting that
>>> they
>>> are not value for money at all, but was just curious to hear opinions
>>> from
>>> others who may be able to afford such kit.
>>> I am in no position at all to place any counter arguments to anyone; I
>>> simply don't have the experience nor expertise. As I said my only
>>> motivation
>>> was shear curiosity.
>>>
>>> I'm having problems justifying a few hundred dollars at the moment for a
>>> set of cables which I am reasonably certain will make a big difference
>>> on
>>> my
>>> system compared to the el cheapos I have had for years. I was just
>>> amazed
>>> to see these.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Mal
>>> Oz
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> If you are reasonably certain it will make a big difference then it
>> probably
>> will. The "Placebo Effect" in medicine is very well known and very well
>> studied, and, it works. That's what humans are capable of.
>>
> .
>>
> Gareth, my assumption here was based on my experience when upgrading my
> speaker cables some months back. I had been using a set of el cheapo,
> twisted copper with clear insulation and I thought at the time they
> sounded
> ok. That is I had not detected any problems with what I was hearing.
>
> Anyway, I was in my local hi-fi retailer buying a new CD player and I saw
> all these 'special' speaker cables on rolls; prices started at around A$15
> a
> metre to over A$100. I asked him, as I hadn't got a clue, whether these
> really made a difference. Well he made a strange offer. He said to me
> "look
> mate, buy some of the $15 a metre stuff and if you don't hear a difference
> then come back and I'll refund your money". So apart from risking a
> return
> trip to the hi-fi shop (always a risk!) I couldn't lose.
>
> So I did just that, bought 6 metres of the stuff and hooked them up. Well
> the difference on my kit was astounding. Bass was tighter, with more kick
> and the top end, wow! I remember my wife was in the bathroom doing
> something
> and she even came running into the lounge and asked what the f*** have you
> done. Needless to say the cables are still on my speakers.
>
> So, I am reasonably convinced that replacing my bargain basement
> interconnects (they are basically what comes free with most kit these
> days)
> with something with better construction, better conductors and
> connections,
> should make some improvements. BTW the 'few hundred dollars' is to
> replace
> all my interconnects not the individual price of the cables. >
>
>> Before you commit to spending hundreds of dollars on interconnects, how
>> about having a bit of fun first, and getting people you know together
>> with a
>> hi-fi and doing a proper double blind AB test with the cheapest possible
>> 50
>> cent interconnects and the best interconnects you can muster between
>> you,
>> and see who can tell the difference. Put some money in, the winner gets
>> the
>> pot. Then decide what you want to spend your money on
>
> Ha ! My mates are also in the same boat - they are looking to me for
> 'leadership' here. So don't really have the opportunity to have a play
> around. But having said that I think I just found a dealer willing to
> order
> in what I want from Japan and let me have a A/B test with my existing
> cables
> in his showroom.
>

No you do not want an AB test in his showroom. You want a Double Blind AB
test. That means that you test between A and B and nobody knows which cable
A and B are until after the test. Particularly the dealer. Google Double
Blind Test and do your tests properly.

Actually I think I'm wasting my time here, you have already decided that
spending more money on cables is going to sound better. You have even
managed to prove it to yourself.

Bye.

Gareth.

>

Richard Crowley

December 11th 08, 11:42 PM

"Mal Thomas" wrote ...
> my assumption here was based on my experience when upgrading my
> speaker cables some months back. I had been using a set of el cheapo,
> twisted copper with clear insulation and I thought at the time they
> sounded
> ok. That is I had not detected any problems with what I was hearing.

You didn't mention the size (wire guage) of this "el-cheapo" cable.
It was almost certainly the wire guage and not the price of the cable
that made any difference. Cable is not magic.

Frequently, just the mechanical process of replacing cables will
break through oxidation (etc) and make the cable "sound better"
regardless of what the replacement cable is. You can experiment
for yourself by just swaping some cables around (or have a friend
do it to give yourself a bit of a "blind test") Cable is not magic.

> Anyway, I was in my local hi-fi retailer buying a new CD player and I saw
> all these 'special' speaker cables on rolls; prices started at around A$15
> a
> metre to over A$100. I asked him, as I hadn't got a clue, whether these
> really made a difference. Well he made a strange offer. He said to me
> "look
> mate, buy some of the $15 a metre stuff and if you don't hear a difference
> then come back and I'll refund your money". So apart from risking a
> return
> trip to the hi-fi shop (always a risk!) I couldn't lose.

You would have heard the same difference from cheap "lamp cord"
*of the same wire guage*. Cable is not magic.

> So I did just that, bought 6 metres of the stuff and hooked them up. Well
> the difference on my kit was astounding. Bass was tighter, with more kick
> and the top end, wow!

Tighter bass is an expected result of using the proper gauge
wire between amplifier and speaker (rated conservatively for
the power rating, impedance, and length) Cable is not magic.

You must have had extraordinarily lousy cable to hear such an
improvement in the top end. All the talk of "skin effect" and
other such claims are rubbish at audio frequecies in any reasonable
size ordinary cable.

> I remember my wife was in the bathroom doing something
> and she even came running into the lounge and asked what the f*** have you
> done. Needless to say the cables are still on my speakers.

Never reveal to her that you could have got the same effect from
decent-size lamp-cord.

> So, I am reasonably convinced that replacing my bargain basement
> interconnects (they are basically what comes free with most kit these
> days)
> with something with better construction,

"better construction" is pure bunkum. Cable is not magic.

> better conductors

"better conductors" means adequate wire guage (for speaker cable)
or it may mean proper shielding and low capacitance (for line-level)
These are not expensive. Cable is not magic.

> and connections,

"better connections" may mean something nominally decent
vs. some ultra-cheap junk from a bargain-basement 4th-rate,
factory in the 3rd world. Decent connectors are not expensive.
Cable (and connectors) are not magic.

> should make some improvements. BTW the 'few hundred dollars' is to
> replace
> all my interconnects not the individual price of the cables.

It wouldn't take a "few hundred dollars" to replace the cables
in Bill Gate's mansion with perfectly good regular cable. Try to
resist getting sucked into the "magic cable" delusion.

> Ha ! My mates are also in the same boat - they are looking to me for
> 'leadership' here.

Friends don't let friends waste their money on magic cable.

gareth magennis

December 11th 08, 11:45 PM

"Richard Crowley" > wrote in message
...
> "Mal Thomas" wrote ...
>> my assumption here was based on my experience when upgrading my
>> speaker cables some months back. I had been using a set of el cheapo,
>> twisted copper with clear insulation and I thought at the time they
>> sounded
>> ok. That is I had not detected any problems with what I was hearing.
>
> You didn't mention the size (wire guage) of this "el-cheapo" cable.
> It was almost certainly the wire guage and not the price of the cable
> that made any difference. Cable is not magic.
>
> Frequently, just the mechanical process of replacing cables will
> break through oxidation (etc) and make the cable "sound better"
> regardless of what the replacement cable is. You can experiment
> for yourself by just swaping some cables around (or have a friend
> do it to give yourself a bit of a "blind test") Cable is not magic.
>
>> Anyway, I was in my local hi-fi retailer buying a new CD player and I saw
>> all these 'special' speaker cables on rolls; prices started at around
>> A$15 a
>> metre to over A$100. I asked him, as I hadn't got a clue, whether these
>> really made a difference. Well he made a strange offer. He said to me
>> "look
>> mate, buy some of the $15 a metre stuff and if you don't hear a
>> difference
>> then come back and I'll refund your money". So apart from risking a
>> return
>> trip to the hi-fi shop (always a risk!) I couldn't lose.
>
> You would have heard the same difference from cheap "lamp cord"
> *of the same wire guage*. Cable is not magic.
>
>> So I did just that, bought 6 metres of the stuff and hooked them up.
>> Well
>> the difference on my kit was astounding. Bass was tighter, with more kick
>> and the top end, wow!
>
> Tighter bass is an expected result of using the proper gauge
> wire between amplifier and speaker (rated conservatively for
> the power rating, impedance, and length) Cable is not magic.
>
> You must have had extraordinarily lousy cable to hear such an
> improvement in the top end. All the talk of "skin effect" and
> other such claims are rubbish at audio frequecies in any reasonable
> size ordinary cable.
>
>> I remember my wife was in the bathroom doing something
>> and she even came running into the lounge and asked what the f*** have
>> you
>> done. Needless to say the cables are still on my speakers.
>
> Never reveal to her that you could have got the same effect from
> decent-size lamp-cord.
>
>> So, I am reasonably convinced that replacing my bargain basement
>> interconnects (they are basically what comes free with most kit these
>> days)
>> with something with better construction,
>
> "better construction" is pure bunkum. Cable is not magic.
>
>> better conductors
>
> "better conductors" means adequate wire guage (for speaker cable)
> or it may mean proper shielding and low capacitance (for line-level)
> These are not expensive. Cable is not magic.
>
>> and connections,
>
> "better connections" may mean something nominally decent
> vs. some ultra-cheap junk from a bargain-basement 4th-rate,
> factory in the 3rd world. Decent connectors are not expensive.
> Cable (and connectors) are not magic.
>
>> should make some improvements. BTW the 'few hundred dollars' is to
>> replace
>> all my interconnects not the individual price of the cables.
>
> It wouldn't take a "few hundred dollars" to replace the cables
> in Bill Gate's mansion with perfectly good regular cable. Try to
> resist getting sucked into the "magic cable" delusion.
>
>> Ha ! My mates are also in the same boat - they are looking to me for
>> 'leadership' here.
>
> Friends don't let friends waste their money on magic cable.
>

I think Don's orignal "'TROLL ALERT'" warning has finally sunk in
...................

Gareth.

Arny Krueger

December 12th 08, 12:15 AM

"Mal Thomas" > wrote in message

> Gareth, my assumption here was based on my experience
> when upgrading my speaker cables some months back. I had
> been using a set of el cheapo, twisted copper with clear
> insulation and I thought at the time they sounded ok.
> That is I had not detected any problems with what I was
> hearing.

The issue of the possible benefits of speaker cables has been around for a
long time.

Conventional engineering wisdom says that for almost all speaker cable
applications, all that matters is the length and gauge of the cables,
considering the actual impedance of the speakers.

For example, a speaker whose minimum impedance is 4 ohms should be connected
with a cable that is 3 wire gauges numerically smaller (e.g. 11 gauge
instead of 14 gauge) as compared to a speaker whose minimum impedance is 8
ohms.

If you double the length of a set of speaker cables, a similar choice of
cables with a numerically smaller wire gauge is indicated.

A detailed method for calculating the wire gauge of speaker cables is
presented at:

http://www.pcavtech.com/techtalk/wire_size/index.htm

The "no-brainer" method for choosing speaker cables is to just get 12 gauge
speaker cables. Unless something is unusual with your setup, they will do
the job.

My baseline for comparing speaker cables is the 12 gauge, 2 conductor finely
stranded wire sold by the local home improvement store, either Lowes or Home
Depot. It sells for less than $0.50 per foot in typical quantities, cut off
of their spool.

If you want some durable cable designed for rough-and-tumble use, try some
SV-SJ or SJO rubber jacketed wire.

> Anyway, I was in my local hi-fi retailer buying a new CD
> player and I saw all these 'special' speaker cables on
> rolls; prices started at around A$15 a metre to over
> A$100.

So, the question is not whether or not this very pricey speaker cable is
better than some randomly-selected "speaker cable" that might be as small as
18 or 24 gauge, but whether or not it is any better than commodity copper
cable selected by the means suggested above.

Kevin McMurtrie[_2_]

December 12th 08, 03:55 AM

In article >,
Mal Thomas > wrote:

> I came across this today...
> http://www.highendcable.co.uk/Nordost%20ODIN%20interconnect.htm
>
> Are these the most expensive available ?? Over GBP10,000 for a 1.0m
> interconnect, down here in the colonies one can buy a reasonable car for
> this amount.
>
> I quite appreciate, from personal experience, that a decent set of cables
> can make a difference, even on my aging system, but is there really any
> tangible value of something like this ?
>
> Is the technology in these cables, for instance, really worth the money they
> are asking ? Nordost obviously think so.
>
> Cheers
> Mal
> Oz

They had to top the $500 Denon digital audio Ethernet cable.

<http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AKDL1-Dedicated-Link-Cable/dp/B000I1X6PM/ref
=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1229053162&sr=1-11>

The reviews are gold.

--
Google is a pro-spamming service. I will not see your reply if you use Google.

Johann Spischak

December 12th 08, 06:26 AM

"Mal Thomas" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag ...
>I came across this today...
> http://www.highendcable.co.uk/Nordost%20ODIN%20interconnect.htm
>
> Are these the most expensive available ?? Over GBP10,000 for a 1.0m
> interconnect, down here in the colonies one can buy a reasonable car for
> this amount.
>
> I quite appreciate, from personal experience, that a decent set of cables
> can make a difference, even on my aging system, but is there really any
> tangible value of something like this ?
>
> Is the technology in these cables, for instance, really worth the money they
> are asking ? Nordost obviously think so.
>
> Cheers
> Mal
> Oz

As it looks not only Nordost think so, but several magazines, who voted this cable as product of the year. I do not think, everybody of them are so stupid to say it is better than the other one if it was not so. It would be enough if only one of them would say: Bull****, and Nordost would never be able to sell a piece of it.

There are several expensive producing technologies which pushing the end price up. An example: I myself am soldering supraconductors with low temperature soldering technic into my mastering computer. The difference is there of course, I would not do it if not. You can look around for another computer with 220 dB dynamic range, just try it and let me know what you've found. Do not ask the price it is horrible but the sound is worth if I can help many producers to make beautiful recordings. The first of them, was so happy, that he has given a university lecture serie in Zürich, Hong Kong and Singapur about my sound.

http://scmapp.nus.edu.sg/events/details.asp?e_id=680

The "skepticals" in cable and other highprice cases have no money to try it out and no application to need to use it.

Regards
Johann Spischak

[email protected]

December 12th 08, 04:16 PM

On Dec 12, 1:26*am, "Johann Spischak" > wrote:
> "Mal Thomas" > schrieb im ...
>
>
>
>
>
> >I came across this today...
> >http://www.highendcable.co.uk/Nordost%20ODIN%20interconnect.htm
>
> > Are these the most expensive available ?? * Over GBP10,000 for a 1.0m
> > interconnect, down here in the colonies one can buy a reasonable car for
> > this amount.
>
> > I quite appreciate, from personal experience, that a decent set of cables
> > can make a difference, even on my aging system, but is there really any
> > tangible value of something like this ?
>
> > Is the technology in these cables, for instance, really worth the money they
> > are asking ? Nordost obviously think so.
>
> > Cheers
> > Mal
> > Oz
>
> As it looks not only Nordost think so, but several magazines, who voted this cable as product of the year. I do not think, everybody of them are so stupid to say it is better than the other one if it was not so. It would be enough if only one of them would say: Bull****, and Nordost would never be able to sell a piece of it.
>
> There are several expensive producing technologies which pushing the end price up. An example: I myself am soldering supraconductors with low temperature soldering technic into my mastering computer. The difference is there of course, I would not do it if not. You can look around for another computer with 220 dB dynamic range, just try it and let me know what you've found. Do not ask the price it is horrible but the sound is worth if I can help many producers to make beautiful recordings. The first of them, was so happy, that he has given a university lecture serie in Zürich, Hong Kong and Singapur about my sound.
>
> http://scmapp.nus.edu.sg/events/details.asp?e_id=680
>
> The "skepticals" in cable and other highprice cases have no money to try it out and no application to need to use it.
>
> Regards
> Johann Spischak- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

You're full of crap.

Richard Crowley

December 12th 08, 04:28 PM

> wrote ...
> You're full of crap.

But at least he has raised the bar for trolling to a new professional
and even an academic level. Our regular trolls could learn a few
things. This will give Brian McCarty a new model to aspire to.
His recent rubbish is so predictable and boring.

Eeyore

December 12th 08, 06:05 PM

Mal Thomas wrote:

> Sorry, no troll - not selling anything, don't own a shop or business, got
> absolutely nothing to do with Nordost or the shop in the UK...was simply
> curious to find out if any cable, regardless of it's brand was worth this
> kind of money.

Absolutely not. Wire is wire.

Graham

Eeyore

December 12th 08, 06:10 PM

Mal Thomas wrote:

> I'm having problems justifying a few hundred dollars at the moment for a
> set of cables which I am reasonably certain will make a big difference on my
> system compared to the el cheapos I have had for years.

They won't. Buy stuff like this on ebay (link below) instead. It's a total myth
that 'interconnects' affect the sound. But the hi-fi mags have to get advertisers
from somewhere so they perpetuate the myth.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1m-PURE-OFC-Twin-2-x-Phono-RCA-Stereo-Cable-Lead-GOLD_W0QQitemZ120343778121QQihZ002QQcategoryZ11685 0QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

1 metre phono/RCA connectors with gold plated contacts and the famed 'oxygen feee
cable'.

Total cost £3.38 !

Graham

Eeyore

December 12th 08, 06:20 PM

Mal Thomas wrote:

> Gareth, my assumption here was based on my experience when upgrading my
> speaker cables some months back. I had been using a set of el cheapo,
> twisted copper with clear insulation and I thought at the time they sounded
> ok. That is I had not detected any problems with what I was hearing.

Speaker cables are COMPLETELY different to 'interconnects'.

That's because their resistance, capacitance and inductance CAN affect the
*frequency response* of the speaker. Why ? Because their values are not
insignificant related to those of the speaker. But nothing else. No magic.

This situation DOES NOT apply to interconnects unless maybe in extreme cases such
as daft high output impedance valve / tube equipment where a long cable's
capacitance MIGHT roll off a bit of treble. Not a problem with solid-state kit or
even decently designed valve kit.

I advise the use of 4mm2 speaker cable from the cheapest supplier.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PREMIUM-HUGE-4mm-OXYGEN-FREE-SPEAKER-CABLE-1-49-p-m_W0QQitemZ400006988766QQihZ027QQcategoryZ116853QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

You can probably get it cheaper too !

Graham

Eeyore

December 12th 08, 06:22 PM

Mal Thomas wrote:

> Anyway, I was in my local hi-fi retailer buying a new CD player and I saw
> all these 'special' speaker cables on rolls; prices started at around A$15 a
> metre to over A$100. I asked him, as I hadn't got a clue, whether these
> really made a difference. Well he made a strange offer. He said to me "look
> mate, buy some of the $15 a metre stuff and if you don't hear a difference
> then come back and I'll refund your money". So apart from risking a return
> trip to the hi-fi shop (always a risk!) I couldn't lose.
>
> So I did just that, bought 6 metres of the stuff and hooked them up. Well
> the difference on my kit was astounding. Bass was tighter, with more kick
> and the top end, wow! I remember my wife was in the bathroom doing something
> and she even came running into the lounge and asked what the f*** have you
> done. Needless to say the cables are still on my speakers.

Why ? Because I'll bet any money these $15 a metre cables used a larger diameter
wire than what you had before and therefore had less electrical resistance.

Not an issue for interconnects.

Graham

Eeyore

December 12th 08, 06:24 PM

Johann Spischak wrote:

> "Mal Thomas" > schrieb
> >
> > Is the technology in these cables, for instance, really worth the money they
> > are asking ? Nordost obviously think so.
>
> As it looks not only Nordost think so, but several magazines, who voted this cable as product of the year.

They should be shot.

Graham

Richard Crowley

December 12th 08, 06:26 PM

"Eeyore" wrote...
> Mal Thomas wrote:
>> I'm having problems justifying a few hundred dollars at the moment for a
>> set of cables which I am reasonably certain will make a big difference on
>> my
>> system compared to the el cheapos I have had for years.
>
> They won't. Buy stuff like this on ebay (link below) instead. It's a total
> myth
> that 'interconnects' affect the sound. But the hi-fi mags have to get
> advertisers
> from somewhere so they perpetuate the myth.
>
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1m-PURE-OFC-Twin-2-x-Phono-RCA-Stereo-Cable-Lead-GOLD_W0QQitemZ120343778121QQihZ002QQcategoryZ11685 0QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>
> 1 metre phono/RCA connectors with gold plated contacts and the famed
> 'oxygen feee
> cable'.
>
> Total cost £3.38 !

WOW! It's even "digital"! :-)

I would wager that there is no magic cable at any inflated price that
can be shown in an actual double-blind test to "sound better" than
this kind of commodity product.

Eeyore

December 12th 08, 06:27 PM

Don Pearce wrote:

> "geoff" > wrote:
> >
> >You can save yourself a further hundred or more by simply going to Dick
> >Smith and spending ~$30 on their regular upper-end cables.
> >
> >You will not hear any difference whatsoever between these, $200, or
> >UKP10,000 cables.
>
> Or the ones that come free with every bit of kit you buy.
>
> And yes, I've already had a bellyful of f*&%ing Xmas.

Just wait for next year !

Good news is that anthropogenic global warming will be conclusively disproven
in 2-3 yrs. Maybe even sooner ! So taxes can reduce.

Graham

[email protected]

December 12th 08, 06:32 PM

Eeyore wrote:
>
> Mal Thomas wrote:
>
>> Sorry, no troll - not selling anything, don't own a shop or business, got
>> absolutely nothing to do with Nordost or the shop in the UK...was simply
>> curious to find out if any cable, regardless of it's brand was worth this
>> kind of money.
>
> Absolutely not. Wire is wire.

Barbed wire from the Soviet gulag is best. That's what I use.

Richard Crowley

December 12th 08, 06:35 PM

"Eeyore" wrote ...
> Don Pearce wrote:
>> "geoff" wrote:
>> >You can save yourself a further hundred or more by simply going to Dick
>> >Smith and spending ~$30 on their regular upper-end cables.
>> >
>> >You will not hear any difference whatsoever between these, $200, or
>> >UKP10,000 cables.
>>
>> Or the ones that come free with every bit of kit you buy.
>>
>> And yes, I've already had a bellyful of f*&%ing Xmas.
>
> Just wait for next year !
>
> Good news is that anthropogenic global warming will be conclusively
> disproven in 2-3 yrs. Maybe even sooner ! So taxes can reduce.

If the Chicken Little crowd (Algore, et.al.) manage to run whats left
of the global economy into the dust before then, it will be too late.

They have started a new TV advert campaign here in the US about
"creating jobs" making old buildings more "energy efficient" or some-
such nonesense. They are apparently hoping nobody will ask who
is paying for these newly created jobs.

Richard Crowley

December 12th 08, 06:37 PM

> wrote ...
> Eeyore wrote:
>> Mal Thomas wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry, no troll - not selling anything, don't own a shop or business,
>>> got
>>> absolutely nothing to do with Nordost or the shop in the UK...was simply
>>> curious to find out if any cable, regardless of it's brand was worth
>>> this
>>> kind of money.
>>
>> Absolutely not. Wire is wire.
>
> Barbed wire from the Soviet gulag is best. That's what I use.

You can probably get a premium for it if you have the proper
provenance documentation to prove that it is from Siberia.
(Or maybe just DNA results on the blood stains.)

Mal Thomas

December 13th 08, 01:29 AM

On 12/12/08 8:42 AM, in article , "Richard
Crowley" > wrote:

> "Mal Thomas" wrote ...
>> my assumption here was based on my experience when upgrading my
>> speaker cables some months back. I had been using a set of el cheapo,
>> twisted copper with clear insulation and I thought at the time they
>> sounded
>> ok. That is I had not detected any problems with what I was hearing.
>
> You didn't mention the size (wire guage) of this "el-cheapo" cable.
> It was almost certainly the wire guage and not the price of the cable
> that made any difference. Cable is not magic.
>
> Frequently, just the mechanical process of replacing cables will
> break through oxidation (etc) and make the cable "sound better"
> regardless of what the replacement cable is. You can experiment
> for yourself by just swaping some cables around (or have a friend
> do it to give yourself a bit of a "blind test") Cable is not magic.
>
>> Anyway, I was in my local hi-fi retailer buying a new CD player and I saw
>> all these 'special' speaker cables on rolls; prices started at around A$15
>> a
>> metre to over A$100. I asked him, as I hadn't got a clue, whether these
>> really made a difference. Well he made a strange offer. He said to me
>> "look
>> mate, buy some of the $15 a metre stuff and if you don't hear a difference
>> then come back and I'll refund your money". So apart from risking a
>> return
>> trip to the hi-fi shop (always a risk!) I couldn't lose.
>
> You would have heard the same difference from cheap "lamp cord"
> *of the same wire guage*. Cable is not magic.
>
>> So I did just that, bought 6 metres of the stuff and hooked them up. Well
>> the difference on my kit was astounding. Bass was tighter, with more kick
>> and the top end, wow!
>
> Tighter bass is an expected result of using the proper gauge
> wire between amplifier and speaker (rated conservatively for
> the power rating, impedance, and length) Cable is not magic.
>
> You must have had extraordinarily lousy cable to hear such an
> improvement in the top end. All the talk of "skin effect" and
> other such claims are rubbish at audio frequecies in any reasonable
> size ordinary cable.
>
>> I remember my wife was in the bathroom doing something
>> and she even came running into the lounge and asked what the f*** have you
>> done. Needless to say the cables are still on my speakers.
>
> Never reveal to her that you could have got the same effect from
> decent-size lamp-cord.
>
>> So, I am reasonably convinced that replacing my bargain basement
>> interconnects (they are basically what comes free with most kit these
>> days)
>> with something with better construction,
>
> "better construction" is pure bunkum. Cable is not magic.
>
>> better conductors
>
> "better conductors" means adequate wire guage (for speaker cable)
> or it may mean proper shielding and low capacitance (for line-level)
> These are not expensive. Cable is not magic.
>
>> and connections,
>
> "better connections" may mean something nominally decent
> vs. some ultra-cheap junk from a bargain-basement 4th-rate,
> factory in the 3rd world. Decent connectors are not expensive.
> Cable (and connectors) are not magic.
>
>> should make some improvements. BTW the 'few hundred dollars' is to
>> replace
>> all my interconnects not the individual price of the cables.
>
> It wouldn't take a "few hundred dollars" to replace the cables
> in Bill Gate's mansion with perfectly good regular cable. Try to
> resist getting sucked into the "magic cable" delusion.
>
>> Ha ! My mates are also in the same boat - they are looking to me for
>> 'leadership' here.
>
> Friends don't let friends waste their money on magic cable.
>
>
I appreciate the insights here Richard. You are correct, the cable I was
using was only about 1/8" in diameter (2 conductors of course). Don't know
what gauge that is and was made up of a number of twisted copper wires. The
new stuff that I got has a thick solid conductor about a millimetre in
diameter and is very stiff.

Yes the old conductors did look oxidised - black

Thanks
Mal
Oz

Eeyore

December 13th 08, 01:32 AM

Mal Thomas wrote:

> Yes the old conductors did look oxidised - black

And copper oxide is a rectifier, i.e. it will 'damage' the signal.

That's why proper connectors should be used, not bare wire into terminals.

Graham

Eeyore

December 13th 08, 01:35 AM

Mal Thomas wrote:

> The new stuff that I got has a thick solid conductor about a millimetre in
> diameter and is very stiff.

That's puny. You've been HAD ! DO NOT do the same again with interconnects.

4mm2 cable as used by pros is over 2mm in diameter and the stuff I use is very
flexible.

Graham

Mal Thomas

December 13th 08, 01:37 AM

On 12/12/08 8:30 AM, in article , "Gareth
Magennis" > wrote:

>
> "Mal Thomas" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/12/08 5:05 AM, in article ,
>> "Gareth
>> Magennis" > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Mal Thomas" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 11/12/08 10:58 PM, in article 49431c59.85744578@localhost, "Don
>>>> Pearce
>>>> "
>>>> <> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:56:03 GMT, Mal Thomas >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/12/08 10:46 PM, in article 494219bf.85078015@localhost, "Don
>>>>>> Pearce "
>>>>>> <> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:43:52 GMT, Mal Thomas >
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I came across this today...
>>>>>>>> http://www.highendcable.co.uk/Nordost%20ODIN%20interconnect.htm
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Are these the most expensive available ?? Over GBP10,000 for a
>>>>>>>> 1.0m
>>>>>>>> interconnect, down here in the colonies one can buy a reasonable car
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> this amount.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I quite appreciate, from personal experience, that a decent set of
>>>>>>>> cables
>>>>>>>> can make a difference, even on my aging system, but is there really
>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>> tangible value of something like this ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is the technology in these cables, for instance, really worth the
>>>>>>>> money
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>> are asking ? Nordost obviously think so.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>> Mal
>>>>>>>> Oz
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> TROLL ALERT!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> d
>>>>>> Sorry, no troll - not selling anything, don't own a shop or business,
>>>>>> got
>>>>>> absolutely nothing to do with Nordost or the shop in the UK...was
>>>>>> simply
>>>>>> curious to find out if any cable, regardless of it's brand was worth
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> kind of money.
>>>>>>
>>>>> No, that would be a shill. A troll is someone who drops a known
>>>>> argument-starter into the pot.
>>>>>
>>>>> d
>>>> Please accept my apologies, honestly. Didn't think it would start an
>>>> argument and was definitely not my intent. There are people I am sure
>>>> who
>>>> can afford and can probably justify them. And I am not suggesting that
>>>> they
>>>> are not value for money at all, but was just curious to hear opinions
>>>> from
>>>> others who may be able to afford such kit.
>>>> I am in no position at all to place any counter arguments to anyone; I
>>>> simply don't have the experience nor expertise. As I said my only
>>>> motivation
>>>> was shear curiosity.
>>>>
>>>> I'm having problems justifying a few hundred dollars at the moment for a
>>>> set of cables which I am reasonably certain will make a big difference
>>>> on
>>>> my
>>>> system compared to the el cheapos I have had for years. I was just
>>>> amazed
>>>> to see these.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Mal
>>>> Oz
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you are reasonably certain it will make a big difference then it
>>> probably
>>> will. The "Placebo Effect" in medicine is very well known and very well
>>> studied, and, it works. That's what humans are capable of.
>>>
>> .
>>>
>> Gareth, my assumption here was based on my experience when upgrading my
>> speaker cables some months back. I had been using a set of el cheapo,
>> twisted copper with clear insulation and I thought at the time they
>> sounded
>> ok. That is I had not detected any problems with what I was hearing.
>>
>> Anyway, I was in my local hi-fi retailer buying a new CD player and I saw
>> all these 'special' speaker cables on rolls; prices started at around A$15
>> a
>> metre to over A$100. I asked him, as I hadn't got a clue, whether these
>> really made a difference. Well he made a strange offer. He said to me
>> "look
>> mate, buy some of the $15 a metre stuff and if you don't hear a difference
>> then come back and I'll refund your money". So apart from risking a
>> return
>> trip to the hi-fi shop (always a risk!) I couldn't lose.
>>
>> So I did just that, bought 6 metres of the stuff and hooked them up. Well
>> the difference on my kit was astounding. Bass was tighter, with more kick
>> and the top end, wow! I remember my wife was in the bathroom doing
>> something
>> and she even came running into the lounge and asked what the f*** have you
>> done. Needless to say the cables are still on my speakers.
>>
>> So, I am reasonably convinced that replacing my bargain basement
>> interconnects (they are basically what comes free with most kit these
>> days)
>> with something with better construction, better conductors and
>> connections,
>> should make some improvements. BTW the 'few hundred dollars' is to
>> replace
>> all my interconnects not the individual price of the cables. >
>>
>>> Before you commit to spending hundreds of dollars on interconnects, how
>>> about having a bit of fun first, and getting people you know together
>>> with a
>>> hi-fi and doing a proper double blind AB test with the cheapest possible
>>> 50
>>> cent interconnects and the best interconnects you can muster between
>>> you,
>>> and see who can tell the difference. Put some money in, the winner gets
>>> the
>>> pot. Then decide what you want to spend your money on
>>
>> Ha ! My mates are also in the same boat - they are looking to me for
>> 'leadership' here. So don't really have the opportunity to have a play
>> around. But having said that I think I just found a dealer willing to
>> order
>> in what I want from Japan and let me have a A/B test with my existing
>> cables
>> in his showroom.
>>
>
>
>
> No you do not want an AB test in his showroom. You want a Double Blind AB
> test. That means that you test between A and B and nobody knows which cable
> A and B are until after the test. Particularly the dealer. Google Double
> Blind Test and do your tests properly.
>
>
> Actually I think I'm wasting my time here, you have already decided that
> spending more money on cables is going to sound better. You have even
> managed to prove it to yourself.
>
> Bye.
>
> Gareth.
>
Gareth,
Look if you feel you are wasting your time then simply shut up or put me in
your kill-file.

BTW I haven't decided to buy anything. Yes, I was considering upgrading my
cables to something that I felt was a reasonable price. I even had narrowed
it down to a couple of brands that I was looking at.

But since reading all this, (rather than salesmen's hype and various
reviews, manufacturers websites etc), I will probably end up saving a bit of
money.

I might be naïve, misinformed (on this subject) but I'm not stupid.

Cheers
Mal
Oz

>
>
>
>>
>
>

Chris Hornbeck

December 13th 08, 01:58 AM

On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 18:24:40 +0000, Eeyore
> wrote:

>Johann Spischak wrote:
>
>> "Mal Thomas" > schrieb
>> >
>> > Is the technology in these cables, for instance, really worth the money they
>> > are asking ? Nordost obviously think so.
>>
>> As it looks not only Nordost think so, but several magazines, who voted this cable as product of the year.
>
>They should be shot.

His English is better than mine or yours. Starve a troll.

Much thanks, as always,
Chris Hornbeck

Eeyore

December 13th 08, 02:01 AM

Mal Thomas wrote:

> "Gareth Magennis" > wrote:
> >
> > Actually I think I'm wasting my time here, you have already decided that
> > spending more money on cables is going to sound better. You have even
> > managed to prove it to yourself.
>
> Gareth,
> Look if you feel you are wasting your time then simply shut up or put me in
> your kill-file.
>
> BTW I haven't decided to buy anything. Yes, I was considering upgrading my
> cables to something that I felt was a reasonable price. I even had narrowed
> it down to a couple of brands that I was looking at.
>
> But since reading all this, (rather than salesmen's hype and various
> reviews, manufacturers websites etc), I will probably end up saving a bit of
> money.
>
> I might be naïve, misinformed (on this subject) but I'm not stupid.

Do not forget that SPEAKER cables can and do have 'an effect'. No-one can say
whether one is 'better' or worse' than another other than the general advice is to
get the beefiest cable you can (largest cross-sectional area or gauge) from the
cheapest supplier you can find, to keep the resistance low. This will best allow
your speakers to sound as they were intended.

'Interconnects' are a completely different kettle of fish for technical reasons
that you'd have to study to understand. Aside from looking posh, a $1000 cable
will be no better than a $5 cable. Even a well made 50c cable is most likely
indistinguishable as long as they didn't skimp on the screen / shield. Here endeth
the lesson from someone with 37 years in pro-audio who regularly ran a 60 metre
(200 feet) audio multicore. And no we didn't pay a million dollars for it.

Graham

Johann Spischak

December 13th 08, 09:31 AM

"Mal Thomas" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag ...
> Gareth,
> Look if you feel you are wasting your time then simply shut up or put me in
> your kill-file.
>
> BTW I haven't decided to buy anything. Yes, I was considering upgrading my
> cables to something that I felt was a reasonable price. I even had narrowed
> it down to a couple of brands that I was looking at.
>
> But since reading all this, (rather than salesmen's hype and various
> reviews, manufacturers websites etc), I will probably end up saving a bit of
> money.
>
> I might be naïve, misinformed (on this subject) but I'm not stupid.
>
> Cheers
> Mal
> Oz

I think I can help you with a very simple tip to make your decision. You don't need to bring home a sample of alternative cable. Just take your own cable into the demo room of that HiFi store. Listen any kind of acoustic record. Listen to the echos and the ringing out timesof any instrument. Which longer rings is your future cable, take that one, ready. Go home and enjoy the music!

Happy weekend!
Johann Spischak

[email protected]

December 13th 08, 09:48 AM

Johann Spischak wrote:

> I think I can help you with a very simple tip to make your decision. You don't need to bring home a sample of alternative cable. Just take your own cable into the demo room of that HiFi store. Listen any kind of acoustic record. Listen to the echos and the ringing out timesof any instrument. Which longer rings is your future cable, take that one, ready. Go home and enjoy the music!

Hint: Use recordings of undamped instruments for ultimate frustration.

Eeyore

December 13th 08, 12:03 PM

Johann Spischak wrote:

Get out of this group.

You've already made apest of yourself enough in rec.audio.pro.

Johann Spischak

December 13th 08, 12:45 PM

> schrieb im Newsbeitrag ...
> Johann Spischak wrote:
>
>> I think I can help you with a very simple tip to make your decision. You don't need to bring home a sample of alternative cable. Just take your own cable into the demo room of that HiFi store. Listen any kind of acoustic record. Listen to the echos and the ringing out timesof any instrument. Which longer rings is your future cable, take that one, ready. Go home and enjoy the music!
>
> Hint: Use recordings of undamped instruments for ultimate frustration.

What's the problem? The sound will because can not ring longer than the record contents. If it by one cable shorter is than by the other one, then that cable is guilty, thow it away. Every other things like "tight and deep bass" or "brilliance" comes automatically.

Cheers,
Johann Spischak

Johann Spischak

December 13th 08, 12:53 PM

"Eeyore" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag ...
>
>
> Johann Spischak wrote:
>
> Get out of this group.
>
> You've already made apest of yourself enough in rec.audio.pro.
>

You must have had a difficult childhood.

Arny Krueger

December 13th 08, 02:35 PM

"Johann Spischak" > wrote in message

> I think I can help you with a very simple tip to make
> your decision.

That would be good.

> You don't need to bring home a sample of
> alternative cable.

True, because unlike speaker cables, there is no way that a 1 meter
interconnect in good operating condition can have one iota of effect on the
sound of your system.

About the only way a 1 meter interconnect in good operating condition can
have one iota of effect on the sound of your system is if the distance
between the components is ? 1 meter.

> Just take your own cable into the demo
> room of that HiFi store.

This looks like the sort of advice that will unnecessarily cost you money.

> Listen any kind of acoustic record.

If you do this, the sales man will know that he's got a real sucker on his
hands. He's looking for clueless individuals, people with far more money
than brains, and doing this will clearly identify you to him, as well as
the rest of us, as being such a person.

> Listen to the echoes and the ringing out times of
> any instrument.

How broke does a cable have to be to affect reverb tails? The answer is
terribly broken. If you actually have a cable that does this, my diagnosis
would be corrosion on some contacts. If you were to have this problem, it is
an indication that the last cables you bought were real trash. Good quality
cables have essentially an unlimited life span.

BTW if corrosion on the contacts is your problem, simply removing and
reattaching them might just effect a temporary fix.

> Which longer rings is your future cable,
> take that one, ready. Go home and enjoy the music!

What's the chance that this Johann Spischak is either an audio sales guy, or
someone who is trying to pull the proverbial wool over your eyes?

Johann Spischak

December 13th 08, 03:40 PM

"Arny Krueger" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag ...
> "Johann Spischak" > wrote in message
>
>
>> I think I can help you with a very simple tip to make
>> your decision.
>
> That would be good.
>
>> You don't need to bring home a sample of
>> alternative cable.
>
> True, because unlike speaker cables, there is no way that a 1 meter
> interconnect in good operating condition can have one iota of effect on the
> sound of your system.
>
> About the only way a 1 meter interconnect in good operating condition can
> have one iota of effect on the sound of your system is if the distance
> between the components is ? 1 meter.

You know exactly, that it is not about the distance, be honest and tell him why do you try to mislead him?

>
>> Just take your own cable into the demo
>> room of that HiFi store.
>
> This looks like the sort of advice that will unnecessarily cost you money.
>
>> Listen any kind of acoustic record.
>
> If you do this, the sales man will know that he's got a real sucker on his
> hands. He's looking for clueless individuals, people with far more money
> than brains, and doing this will clearly identify you to him, as well as
> the rest of us, as being such a person.

No Arny, only if you do it so. Because a normal individual has ears, not necessarily "trained" or "expert" ears.
He can hear _differences_ and that counts. _That_ cable will bring _him_ some advantages, let _him_ decide what to do. The sales man can say what he want, he should not know at all, that this customer has a _key_ to find out what the better is.

>
>> Listen to the echoes and the ringing out times of
>> any instrument.
>
> How broke does a cable have to be to affect reverb tails? The answer is
> terribly broken. If you actually have a cable that does this, my diagnosis
> would be corrosion on some contacts. If you were to have this problem, it is
> an indication that the last cables you bought were real trash. Good quality
> cables have essentially an unlimited life span.
> BTW if corrosion on the contacts is your problem, simply removing and
> reattaching them might just effect a temporary fix.

You know Arny, if it is still a question for you, then it's too late. If you don't know, that we are living in a world, where the interconnects have gold plated plugs. Sometimes you have to leave your PC alone and come back to visit the real world. With my key tip he can judge the new cables also _without_ his own old by. The tip works in any other doubtful situation, you don't need to shame yourself to try it out, before throwing stones! :-)))

>> Which longer rings is your future cable,
>> take that one, ready. Go home and enjoy the music!
>
> What's the chance that this Johann Spischak is either an audio sales guy, or
> someone who is trying to pull the proverbial wool over your eyes?
>

Non of them Arnold Krüger and you know it exactly. Only one of us lives his life in front of his PC, it is enough to take a look on your several hundred thousend postings only in the past more then ten years. Hundreds of it daily. You are getting older and in dispite of it, you make the same play year for year trying to make fool the younger generation. You are frustrated for life, because your ABX Comparator not became a hit. I can tell you why: Because already at the beginning (how many years ago? Once upon a time... children, just sleep well) it was so perfect, that Tiefenbrunn the proud Linn founder was not able to say which was conserve and which live music! If you are right, the development should be stopped dekades ago. Fortunately it is not so. :-)

Cheers
Johann Spischak

Arny Krueger

December 13th 08, 05:23 PM

"Johann Spischak" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> ...
>> "Johann Spischak" > wrote in
>> message
>>
>>> I think I can help you with a very simple tip to make
>>> your decision.
>>
>> That would be good.
>>
>>> You don't need to bring home a sample of
>>> alternative cable.
>>
>> True, because unlike speaker cables, there is no way
>> that a 1 meter interconnect in good operating condition
>> can have one iota of effect on the sound of your system.
>>
>> About the only way a 1 meter interconnect in good
>> operating condition can have one iota of effect on the
>> sound of your system is if the distance between the
>> components is ? 1 meter.
>
> You know exactly, that it is not about the distance, be
> honest and tell him why do you try to mislead him?

Looks like the intended less-than sign got lost along the way. Joke!

>>> Just take your own cable into the demo
>>> room of that HiFi store.
>>
>> This looks like the sort of advice that will
>> unnecessarily cost you money.
>>
>>> Listen any kind of acoustic record.
>>
>> If you do this, the sales man will know that he's got a
>> real sucker on his hands. He's looking for clueless
>> individuals, people with far more money than brains,
>> and doing this will clearly identify you to him, as well
>> as the rest of us, as being such a person.

> No Arny, only if you do it so. Because a normal
> individual has ears, not necessarily "trained" or
> "expert" ears.

Your goal seems clear Johann, you're trying to make this about me. I'm not
falling for your games-playing.

The problem isn't my ears, or trained ears or expert ears. It's about the
fact that no ears that have ever graced the sides of a human head can hear
any difference of this kind.

Now Johann, you may be totally clueless and untrained, but not everybody is
that way.

> He can hear _differences_ and that counts.

Obviously Johann you're very naive, or you're trying to be misleading.
Obviously, you are obfuscating the difference between perceiving and
hearing. Whether that's due to ignorance or malice on your part, I can't
tell. Yet.

Yeah, the poor guy might perceive differences, but perceiving includes
things like expectations. Obviously Johann, you're trying to precondition
the poor guy to suspend reasonable disbelief and expect to hear a
difference. That's what's true believers and good salesmen do. Which are
you?

> _That_ cable will bring _him_ some advantages,

Such as?

> let _him_ decide what to do.

Paranoid much, Johann? How am I, sitting at a keyboard perhaps thousands of
miles away keep him from deciding what to do? There's no way, and any
reasonable person knows it. It's a given that he's going to decide what to
do, no matter what I say, and no matter what you say.

What you're trying to do Johann is suppress my ability to express my
opinions. You must not be from a country where there's anything like a
first-amendment to your constitution. BTW I traced the domain that you claim
to be posting from (sdg-master.com) and it is currently unregistered. That
makes your post fraudulent.

> The sales man can say what he want, he should not
> know at all, that this customer has a _key_ to find out
> what the better is.

Why is it OK for the salesman to say what he wants, and its not OK for me to
say what I want, Johann - posting from a fraudulent domain name?

>>> Listen to the echoes and the ringing out times of
>>> any instrument.

>> How broke does a cable have to be to affect reverb
>> tails? The answer is terribly broken. If you actually
>> have a cable that does this, my diagnosis would be
>> corrosion on some contacts. If you were to have this
>> problem, it is an indication that the last cables you
>> bought were real trash. Good quality cables have
>> essentially an unlimited life span.
>> BTW if corrosion on the contacts is your problem, simply
>> removing and reattaching them might just effect a
>> temporary fix.

> You know Arny, if it is still a question for you, then
> it's too late.

Yes, it is too late in the sense that my suspension of disbelief in many
audio myths is pretty well shot.

>If you don't know, that we are living in a
> world, where the interconnects have gold plated plugs.

Sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't. For the record, it is
well-known among pros that gold-plating on RCA connectors is actually a
pretty bad idea, as frequently implemented.

> Sometimes you have to leave your PC alone and come back
> to visit the real world.

Johann, what real world might that be, your crazy fraudulent domain world
where all interconnects have consumer-eyewash gold plating?

Johann, you obviously don't know who are talking down your nose at.

> With my key tip he can judge the new cables also _without_ his own old by.
> The tip works
> in any other doubtful situation, you don't need to shame
> yourself to try it out, before throwing stones! :-)))

Johann, you sit there throwing stones at me, and somehow you want people to
believe that you sincerely think that throwing stones is a bad thing? What
sort of hypocrite are you, anyhow?

>>> Which longer rings is your future cable,
>>> take that one, ready. Go home and enjoy the music!

>> What's the chance that this Johann Spischak is either an
>> audio sales guy, or someone who is trying to pull the
>> proverbial wool over your eyes?
>
> Non of them Arnold Krüger and you know it exactly.

Sorry Johann, but my omniscience module is broken. So, I don't know whether
you are an audio sales guy, a poor mislead and misleading but
poorly-informed lost soul, or whether you are just trying to pull the wool
over people's eyes to get your rocks off.

> Only one of us lives his life in front of his PC,

Johann, I surely don't live my life in front of my PC. For example one of
my away-from-the PC activities is being a professional recordist of band and
choral festivals. I record literally 100s of musical groups every year.

> it is enough
> to take a look on your several hundred thousand postings
> only in the past more then ten years.

Jealous? Trust me Johann, if you were literate enough, you do could
duplicate my posting history.

>Hundreds of it daily.

Now that's a lie. In fact I average a few dozen posts a day.

> You are getting older and in despite of it, you
> make the same play year for year trying to make fool the
> younger generation.

How am I making people look like fools when I reveal so many well-known
truths about audio. I guess you haven't noticed that I'm not the only person
on this thread who is debunking your misapprehensions about cables.

>You are frustrated for life, because
> your ABX Comparator not became a hit.

That's a laugh. ABX remains the single most popular topic on the audio
groups of Usenet. There are HTML newsgroups that have adopted it as their
standard for comparison. Tens of thousands of ABX comparators have been
downloaded and used.

> I can tell you why:
> Because already at the beginning (how many years ago?
> Once upon a time... children, just sleep well) it was so
> perfect, that Tiefenbrunn the proud Linn founder was not
> able to say which was conserve and which live music! If
> you are right, the development should be stopped dekades
> ago. Fortunately it is not so. :-)

Could you have a native speaker of English decode that last paragraph?

Richard Crowley

December 13th 08, 06:24 PM

"Johann Spischak" wrote ...
> Listen to the echos and the ringing out timesof any instrument.
> Which longer rings is your future cable, take that one, ready.
> Go home and enjoy the music!

I think we have identifed the real troll here.

Eeyore

December 13th 08, 07:59 PM

Johann Spischak wrote:

> "Eeyore" > schrieb
> > Johann Spischak wrote:
> >
> > Get out of this group.
> >
> > You've already made apest of yourself enough in rec.audio.pro.
>
> You must have had a difficult childhood.

Go to hell. You are unwelcome here.

Eeyore

December 13th 08, 08:00 PM

Johann Spischak wrote:

> > schrieb
> > Johann Spischak wrote:
> >
> >> I think I can help you with a very simple tip to make your decision. You don't need to bring home a sample of alternative cable. Just take your own cable into the demo room of that HiFi store. Listen any kind of acoustic record. Listen to the echos and the ringing out timesof any instrument. Which longer rings is your future cable, take that one, ready. Go home and enjoy the music!
> >
> > Hint: Use recordings of undamped instruments for ultimate frustration.
>
> What's the problem? The sound will because can not ring longer than the record contents. If it by one cable shorter is than by the other one, then that cable is guilty, thow it away. Every other things like "tight and deep bass" or "brilliance" comes automatically.

IDIOT !

Eeyore

December 13th 08, 08:03 PM

Arny Krueger wrote:

> The "no-brainer" method for choosing speaker cables is to just get 12 gauge
> speaker cables.

Fancy that. It's 4mm2 !
http://www.clearly-av.co.uk/awg.html

Graham

jakdedert

December 13th 08, 10:44 PM

Johann Spischak wrote:
> "Mal Thomas" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag ...
>> Gareth,
>> Look if you feel you are wasting your time then simply shut up or put me in
>> your kill-file.
>>
>> BTW I haven't decided to buy anything. Yes, I was considering upgrading my
>> cables to something that I felt was a reasonable price. I even had narrowed
>> it down to a couple of brands that I was looking at.
>>
>> But since reading all this, (rather than salesmen's hype and various
>> reviews, manufacturers websites etc), I will probably end up saving a bit of
>> money.
>>
>> I might be naïve, misinformed (on this subject) but I'm not stupid.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Mal
>> Oz
>
>
>
> I think I can help you with a very simple tip to make your decision. You don't need to bring home a sample of alternative cable. Just take your own cable into the demo room of that HiFi store. Listen any kind of acoustic record. Listen to the echos and the ringing out timesof any instrument. Which longer rings is your future cable, take that one, ready. Go home and enjoy the music!
>
> Happy weekend!
> Johann Spischak
>
>
Your 'very simple tip' does not translate well into English. Further,
your news agent does not truncate lines properly. Either learn to write
more clearly or stick to your native language (advice I've gotten many
times from native German speakers). I understand--with difficulty--what
you are trying to say, but likely the OP will not. That said, I agree
(somebody shoot me for saying this) with Arny.

It would take some pretty shoddy cable to have any detrimental effect
such as you describe. A ordinary piece of 14 gauge (2 sq mm--<USD
0.5/ft, or roughly a buck and a half) lamp cord, one meter long, should
be indistinguishable from the most expensive snake-oil speaker cable.

If there *was* an audible difference, I'd be much more suspicious of the
expensive cable than of the hunk of lamp cord.

jak