WPL or M3U - Which playlist is appropriate? [Archive]

Richard Crowley

August 6th 08, 02:08 AM

"ChrisCoaster" wrote...
> In Windows Media version 11.0 under the Burn options, I can choose
> one
> of the above options for a playlist(or TOC) to be applied to CDs I'm
> burning mp3s to.

You are burning standard RedBook audio CDs? Not some data CD
with MP3 files on it or something?

If you are burning standard RedBook audio CDs, then it should make
no difference what play list you are using because there is no "play list"
on a RedBook audio CD. The format simply has a series of audio
files which are indexed by a simple directory. All standard audio CDs
are made this way. There is no "play list".

> Problem: An older stereo(12 years old) of ours is having trouble
> recognizing mp3 CDs

What is an "mp3 CD"? If it is a standard RedBook CD which is
supposed to be playable in any audio CD player, then it is NOT
an "MP3 CD". The audio may have had its origins in MP3 files,
but there is nothing "MP3" about the disc. Calling it an "MP3 CD"
just confuses matters and is technically incorrect.

If it is a disc with MP3 files on it, then it is not an audio CD, it is
a computer data disc with computer files which happen to be MP3
files with audio in them. Most standalone CD players (except likely
the most recent models) will likely have no clue what to do with a
computer data disc with MP3 files on it. They are hard-wired to
play only RedBook audio CDs.

> I've burned at home on my Vista system with WMP
> 11.0, and plays them only after 3 - 5 minutes. On the other hand, it
> has NO PROBLEM reading and playing mp3 CDs I burned at WORK on an XP
> system with either WMP 9.0 or 10.0!

Are you using the same brand of discs? Do the two computers use the
same make and model CDR drive? Are you burning at the same speed?
I would suspect any (or several) of those factors before even dreaming
of any kind of "play list" problem.

My very strong suspicion is that the discs you are burning at home
have less optical contrast than the ones you are burning at work.
Your older player is taking a much longer time to recognize the data
and "sync-up" to it because the ones and zeroes are marginal (from
poor contrast).

Lower contrast could be caused by....
1) Using a different brand of blank disc.
2) Burning at a different speed.
3) Using a different brand/model CDR drive to burn them.

The differental diagnosis would be to at least swap blank
disc types, and try burning at lower speeds. You could even
try swaping the CDR drive and/or the software (if possible?)
>
>
> Can you suggest what might be causing this trouble,

See above.

> and will selecting
> one or the other form of playlist in my subject rectify this problem.

I don't see how it could have anything at all to do with your playlists.

> BTW my older boombox(11 years old) has no problem playing any of
> these
> CDs I've burned. WEIRD.

Some drives (particularly newer ones, but some older ones, also)
are just better at pulling data out of low-contrast discs.

You didn't mention whether you are using CDR discs or CDRW
(re-writable) discs. Note that CDRW discs are notoriously lower
contrast than CDR (write-once) discs, and are practically guaranteed
to give more problems, especially on older audio CD players.

ChrisCoaster

August 7th 08, 12:03 AM

On Aug 5, 9:08*pm, "Richard Crowley" > wrote:
> "ChrisCoaster" *wrote...
> > In Windows Media version 11.0 under the Burn options, I can choose
> > one
> > of the above options for a playlist(or TOC) to be applied to CDs I'm
> > burning mp3s to.
>
> You are burning standard RedBook audio CDs? Not some data CD
> with MP3 files on it or something?
>
> If you are burning standard RedBook audio CDs, then it should make
> no difference what play list you are using because there is no "play list"
> on a RedBook audio CD. *The format simply has a series of audio
> files which are indexed by a simple directory. *All standard audio CDs
> are made this way. There is no "play list".
>
> > Problem: *An older stereo(12 years old) of ours is having trouble
> > recognizing mp3 CDs
>
> What is an "mp3 CD"? *If it is a standard RedBook CD which is
> supposed to be playable in any audio CD player, then it is NOT
> an "MP3 CD". *The audio may have had its origins in MP3 files,
> but there is nothing "MP3" about the disc. *Calling it an "MP3 CD"
> just confuses matters and is technically incorrect.
>
> If it is a disc with MP3 files on it, then it is not an audio CD, it is
> a computer data disc with computer files which happen to be MP3
> files with audio in them. *Most standalone CD players (except likely
> the most recent models) will likely have no clue what to do with a
> computer data disc with MP3 files on it. They are hard-wired to
> play only RedBook audio CDs.
>
> > I've burned at home on my Vista system with WMP
> > 11.0, and plays them only after 3 - 5 minutes. *On the other hand, it
> > has NO PROBLEM reading and playing mp3 CDs I burned at WORK on an XP
> > system with either WMP 9.0 or 10.0!
>
> Are you using the same brand of discs? *Do the two computers use the
> same make and model CDR drive? *Are you burning at the same speed?
> I would suspect any (or several) of those factors before even dreaming
> of any kind of "play list" problem.
>
> My very strong suspicion is that the discs you are burning at home
> have less optical contrast than the ones you are burning at work.
> Your older player is taking a much longer time to recognize the data
> and "sync-up" to it because the ones and zeroes are marginal (from
> poor contrast).
>
> Lower contrast could be caused by....
> 1) Using a different brand of blank disc.
> 2) Burning at a different speed.
> 3) Using a different brand/model CDR drive to burn them.
>
> The differental diagnosis would be to at least swap blank
> disc types, and try burning at lower speeds. You could even
> try swaping the CDR drive and/or the software (if possible?)
>
>
>
> > Can you suggest what might be causing this trouble,
>
> See above.
>
> > and will selecting
> > one or the other form of playlist in my subject rectify this problem.
>
> I don't see how it could have anything at all to do with your playlists.
>
> > BTW my older boombox(11 years old) has no problem playing any of
> > these
> > CDs I've burned. *WEIRD.
>
> Some drives (particularly newer ones, but some older ones, also)
> are just better at pulling data out of low-contrast discs.
>
> You didn't mention whether you are using CDR discs or CDRW
> (re-writable) discs. Note that CDRW discs are notoriously lower
> contrast than CDR (write-once) discs, and are practically guaranteed
> to give more problems, especially on older audio CD players.
___________________
Answer to your ?? - CDRW.

I should have mentioned it - but the old stereo is having this trouble
MAINLY with the first 3 - 6 tracks of the CDs I've burned at home.
In addition, the older boombox is *starting* to have trouble reading
some of the ones I recorded at work(I recorded them over a year ago at
a job I'm no longer at, so they are probably starting to deteriorate).

Not to mention, but I'm putting over 75 minutes of music on a format
that holds 79 min & change. I know that CDs are read from the spindle
out to the edge(opposite of records), but I have to wonder, is the
read arm of this player simply not capable of "reaching" the tracks
toward the inside of the CD with that much burned to it?

If the contrast is an issue, I will be sure to purchase CDRs in the
future - and possibly even re-burn some of my CD-RW collections onto
them.
Are CD-Rs still available? Dumb question, but I had to ask!

-CC

ChrisCoaster

August 7th 08, 12:06 AM

On Aug 5, 9:08*pm, "Richard Crowley" > wrote:
> "ChrisCoaster" *wrote...
> > In Windows Media version 11.0 under the Burn options, I can choose
> > one
> > of the above options for a playlist(or TOC) to be applied to CDs I'm
> > burning mp3s to.
>
> You are burning standard RedBook audio CDs? Not some data CD
> with MP3 files on it or something?
>
> If you are burning standard RedBook audio CDs, then it should make
> no difference what play list you are using because there is no "play list"
> on a RedBook audio CD. *The format simply has a series of audio
> files which are indexed by a simple directory. *All standard audio CDs
> are made this way. There is no "play list".
>
> > Problem: *An older stereo(12 years old) of ours is having trouble
> > recognizing mp3 CDs
>
> What is an "mp3 CD"? *If it is a standard RedBook CD which is
> supposed to be playable in any audio CD player, then it is NOT
> an "MP3 CD". *The audio may have had its origins in MP3 files,
> but there is nothing "MP3" about the disc. *Calling it an "MP3 CD"
> just confuses matters and is technically incorrect.
>
> If it is a disc with MP3 files on it, then it is not an audio CD, it is
> a computer data disc with computer files which happen to be MP3
> files with audio in them. *Most standalone CD players (except likely
> the most recent models) will likely have no clue what to do with a
> computer data disc with MP3 files on it. They are hard-wired to
> play only RedBook audio CDs.
>
> > I've burned at home on my Vista system with WMP
> > 11.0, and plays them only after 3 - 5 minutes. *On the other hand, it
> > has NO PROBLEM reading and playing mp3 CDs I burned at WORK on an XP
> > system with either WMP 9.0 or 10.0!
>
> Are you using the same brand of discs? *Do the two computers use the
> same make and model CDR drive? *Are you burning at the same speed?
> I would suspect any (or several) of those factors before even dreaming
> of any kind of "play list" problem.
>
> My very strong suspicion is that the discs you are burning at home
> have less optical contrast than the ones you are burning at work.
> Your older player is taking a much longer time to recognize the data
> and "sync-up" to it because the ones and zeroes are marginal (from
> poor contrast).
>
> Lower contrast could be caused by....
> 1) Using a different brand of blank disc.
> 2) Burning at a different speed.
> 3) Using a different brand/model CDR drive to burn them.
>
> The differental diagnosis would be to at least swap blank
> disc types, and try burning at lower speeds. You could even
> try swaping the CDR drive and/or the software (if possible?)
>
>
>
> > Can you suggest what might be causing this trouble,
>
> See above.
>
> > and will selecting
> > one or the other form of playlist in my subject rectify this problem.
>
> I don't see how it could have anything at all to do with your playlists.
>
> > BTW my older boombox(11 years old) has no problem playing any of
> > these
> > CDs I've burned. *WEIRD.
>
> Some drives (particularly newer ones, but some older ones, also)
> are just better at pulling data out of low-contrast discs.
>
> You didn't mention whether you are using CDR discs or CDRW
> (re-writable) discs. Note that CDRW discs are notoriously lower
> contrast than CDR (write-once) discs, and are practically guaranteed
> to give more problems, especially on older audio CD players.
________________________
Sorry for the fragmented questions, RC, but here's another: If the
pits are of low contrast(ie shallow) will this affect audio fidelity
of a disc the player is reading, vs. a disc with deep burns?

-CC

Richard Crowley

August 7th 08, 02:53 AM

"ChrisCoaster" wrote ...
> Answer to your ?? - CDRW.

I would switch to CDR instantly.

> I should have mentioned it - but the old stereo is having this trouble
> MAINLY with the first 3 - 6 tracks of the CDs I've burned at home.
> In addition, the older boombox is *starting* to have trouble reading
> some of the ones I recorded at work(I recorded them over a year ago at
> a job I'm no longer at, so they are probably starting to deteriorate).

Indeed, I have an old old Sony CD player with gummed-up
lubrication on the "sled" so that it will play only the inner part
of the disc. Requires cleaning and re-lubrication. But you
could probably buy a new player (or two) for what it would
cost to get repaired.

> Not to mention, but I'm putting over 75 minutes of music on a format
> that holds 79 min & change.

I do that with some regularity. It should NOT affect the readability.
Except that some older players don't like the 80-minute blanks.
Because they have a finer pitch which was not anticipated in those
old 1-2 generation of players.

> I know that CDs are read from the spindle
> out to the edge(opposite of records), but I have to wonder, is the
> read arm of this player simply not capable of "reaching" the tracks
> toward the inside of the CD with that much burned to it?

> If the contrast is an issue, I will be sure to purchase CDRs in the
> future - and possibly even re-burn some of my CD-RW collections onto
> them.

And try experimenting with slower burning speeds. Who cares if
you can write the disk at 56x if nobody can read it?

> Are CD-Rs still available? Dumb question, but I had to ask!

Yes, they are available as always.

I use Taiyo-Yuden CDR and DVDR discs *exclusively*. They cost
a few pennies more (literally) but they are MUCH more reliable and
they eliminate the whole disc quality issue when debugging problems.

Richard Crowley

August 7th 08, 02:55 AM

"ChrisCoaster" wrote ...
> Sorry for the fragmented questions, RC, but here's another: If the
> pits are of low contrast(ie shallow) will this affect audio fidelity
> of a disc the player is reading, vs. a disc with deep burns?

No. It is digital. It either works or it doesn't. Same answer for
using expensive botique snake-oil cables.

ChrisCoaster

August 7th 08, 10:23 PM

On Aug 6, 9:55*pm, "Richard Crowley" > wrote:

> No. It is digital. It either works or it doesn't. *Same answer for
> using expensive botique snake-oil cables.
________________________________
LOL!!!!!!!!! :D

Thanks a million Rich - very informative.

I will switch to CD-R and will probably end up having to re-burn ALL
30-40 of them. Come to think of it though, storing music on anything
that SPINS is kind of Edisonian, wouldn't you say? ;)

I'll probably just wait until I make a decision on a decent MP3 player
and dispense with the discs altogether. Now THAT's something with a
future...

-CC

Industrial One

August 8th 08, 09:58 AM

On Aug 7, 3:23 pm, ChrisCoaster > wrote:
> On Aug 6, 9:55 pm, "Richard Crowley" > wrote:
>
> > No. It is digital. It either works or it doesn't. Same answer for
> > using expensive botique snake-oil cables.
>
> ________________________________
> LOL!!!!!!!!! :D
>
> Thanks a million Rich - very informative.
>
> I will switch to CD-R and will probably end up having to re-burn ALL
> 30-40 of them. Come to think of it though, storing music on anything
> that SPINS is kind of Edisonian, wouldn't you say? ;)
>
> I'll probably just wait until I make a decision on a decent MP3 player
> and dispense with the discs altogether. Now THAT's something with a
> future...
>
> -CC

You mean I-Pod?

ChrisCoaster

August 8th 08, 11:32 PM

On Aug 8, 4:58*am, Industrial One > wrote:
> On Aug 7, 3:23 pm, ChrisCoaster > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 6, 9:55 pm, "Richard Crowley" > wrote:
>
> > > No. It is digital. It either works or it doesn't. *Same answer for
> > > using expensive botique snake-oil cables.
>
> > ________________________________
> > LOL!!!!!!!!! :D
>
> > Thanks a million Rich - very informative.
>
> > I will switch to CD-R and will probably end up having to re-burn ALL
> > 30-40 of them. *Come to think of it though, storing music on anything
> > that SPINS is kind of Edisonian, wouldn't you say? *;)
>
> > I'll probably just wait until I make a decision on a decent MP3 player
> > and dispense with the discs altogether. *Now THAT's something with a
> > future...
>
> > -CC
>
> You mean I-Pod?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
__________________
That'll be fine, I-One! :) You know I don't want I-pod because it
can "fill up" at only "some" "gas stations".

-CC

Industrial One

August 8th 08, 11:40 PM

On Aug 8, 4:32 pm, ChrisCoaster > wrote:
> On Aug 8, 4:58 am, Industrial One > wrote:
>
> > On Aug 7, 3:23 pm, ChrisCoaster > wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 6, 9:55 pm, "Richard Crowley" > wrote:
>
> > > > No. It is digital. It either works or it doesn't. Same answer for
> > > > using expensive botique snake-oil cables.
>
> > > ________________________________
> > > LOL!!!!!!!!! :D
>
> > > Thanks a million Rich - very informative.
>
> > > I will switch to CD-R and will probably end up having to re-burn ALL
> > > 30-40 of them. Come to think of it though, storing music on anything
> > > that SPINS is kind of Edisonian, wouldn't you say? ;)
>
> > > I'll probably just wait until I make a decision on a decent MP3 player
> > > and dispense with the discs altogether. Now THAT's something with a
> > > future...
>
> > > -CC
>
> > You mean I-Pod?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> __________________
> That'll be fine, I-One! :) You know I don't want I-pod because it
> can "fill up" at only "some" "gas stations".
>
> -CC

Meaning...?

ChrisCoaster

August 9th 08, 02:38 AM

On Aug 8, 6:40*pm, Industrial One > wrote:
> > That'll be fine, I-One! *:) *You know I don't want I-pod because it
> > can "fill up" at only "some" "gas stations".
>
> > -CC
>
> Meaning...?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
________________
The I-Pod family of players MUST be administered through I-tunes, and
only on the computer they were hooked up to during installation of I-
tunes. That is, if Industrial One tries to download and categorize
and otherwise manage songs through ChrisCoaster's I-tunes on his
computer, or vice versa, it won't work.

Most other MP3 players don't care what computer they are hooked up to
or what service administers the songs to be placed on them.

-CC

Richard Crowley

August 9th 08, 06:52 AM

"ChrisCoaster" wrote...
> The I-Pod family of players MUST be administered through I-tunes, and
> only on the computer they were hooked up to during installation of I-
> tunes.

No, that is simply not true. There are lots of 3rd party apps that let
you manage iPod contents without ever touching iTunes or anything
else that smells of fruit.

I have an iPod and have configured about a dozen other iPods
for friends. Some of them even using iTunes. The "locked-in"
theory is simply not true. It is part of the FUD (fear, uncertainty,
and doubt) propaganda spread by Apple.

ChrisCoaster

August 9th 08, 01:57 PM

On Aug 9, 1:52*am, "Richard Crowley" > wrote:
> "ChrisCoaster" wrote...
> > The I-Pod family of players MUST be administered through I-tunes, and
> > only on the computer they were hooked up to during installation of I-
> > tunes.
>
> No, that is simply not true. There are lots of 3rd party apps that let
> you manage iPod contents without ever touching iTunes or anything
> else that smells of fruit.
>
> I have an iPod and have configured about a dozen other iPods
> for friends. Some of them even using iTunes. *The "locked-in"
> theory is simply not true. *It is part of the FUD (fear, uncertainty,
> and doubt) propaganda spread by Apple.
______________________
Why would I say what I did without trying??

My boss and I had PCs across from each other in the office. He did
the installation for the company I-Pod on his PC, along with I-tunes.

I later downloaded and installed I-tunes to my computer and attempted
to add some songs to the I-Pod through my machine's installation of I-
tunes. It said either the I-pod didn't recognize my I-Tunes or the I-
tunes didn't recognize the I-pod, so I had to e-mail the mp3 song
files to my boss's computer and he put them on the I-pod from there.

I got up this morning and actually saw the sun rise. It HAPPENED -
just as what did with the above I-pod. I have no patience for that
kind of nonsense I described and just want to download and go!

But none of this is here nor there - my point is CDs(with all their
mechanical & optical variables, and pathetic amount of space) are OUT
- and mp3 players, whether Zunes, I-Pods, Sansa Views, or whatever,
are IN.

-CC

Richard Crowley

August 9th 08, 07:40 PM

"ChrisCoaster" wrote ...
> Why would I say what I did without trying??

OK. Lets take it one statement at a time...

You said "The I-Pod family of players MUST be administered
through I-tunes."

That statement is not true. There are MANY 3rd party apps
which will allow you to upload (and even DOWNLOAD)
content (music, video, audiobook, pictures, etc.) on you iPod
or iPhone or iWhatever. I have used several of them myself.

You said "and only on the computer they were hooked up to
during installation of I-tunes."

That is not true either. Even iTunes will manage content on
any number of eifferent iPods, not just those installed from
the computer at hand. You must be very firm with it and NOT
let it do automatically most of the things it is hard-wired to do.

Remember that it was made for Mac users who mostly don't
know anything about computers and rely on Steve Jobs to
hold their hands and do it for them.

> My boss and I had PCs across from each other in the office. He did
> the installation for the company I-Pod on his PC, along with I-tunes.

> I later downloaded and installed I-tunes to my computer and attempted
> to add some songs to the I-Pod through my machine's installation of I-
> tunes. It said either the I-pod didn't recognize my I-Tunes or the I-
> tunes didn't recognize the I-pod, so I had to e-mail the mp3 song
> files to my boss's computer and he put them on the I-pod from there.

If you want to say that iTunes is difficult or even "user vicious"
then I would agree with you. There ARE ways to use iTunes to
do what you were trying to do, but it is not obvious how to do
it from just casual observation. Many of us think this is by design
from the Apple people And it is one of the reasons there are
alternatives to iTunes out there.

DRM is annother reason. I purchase non-DRM downloads
exclusively. I've simply chosen to not play the DRM game at all.

> I got up this morning and actually saw the sun rise. It HAPPENED -
> just as what did with the above I-pod. I have no patience for that
> kind of nonsense I described and just want to download and go!

Yes, I agree that iTunes is obscure, obtuse, and user-vicious. I
have seen iTunes completely wipe out the contents of an iPod
because it wasn't set up properly (where "properly" means
getting some rather obscure setting right.) More good reasons
people avoid iTUnes.

> But none of this is here nor there - my point is CDs(with all their
> mechanical & optical variables, and pathetic amount of space)
> are OUT- and mp3 players, whether Zunes, I-Pods, Sansa Views,
> or whatever, are IN.

Yes, absolutely. And I chose to buy an iPod (rather than one of
the others) despite the fact that it was from Apple, and had the
load of iTunes baggage, etc. etc. I bought it for its features, its
form-factor, and its user interface. None of the alternatives are
in the same league, IMHO.

Industrial One

August 9th 08, 08:14 PM

On Aug 8, 7:38 pm, ChrisCoaster > wrote:
> On Aug 8, 6:40 pm, Industrial One > wrote:> > That'll be fine, I-One! :) You know I don't want I-pod because it
> > > can "fill up" at only "some" "gas stations".
>
> > > -CC
>
> > Meaning...?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> ________________
> The I-Pod family of players MUST be administered through I-tunes, and
> only on the computer they were hooked up to during installation of I-
> tunes. That is, if Industrial One tries to download and categorize
> and otherwise manage songs through ChrisCoaster's I-tunes on his
> computer, or vice versa, it won't work.
>
> Most other MP3 players don't care what computer they are hooked up to
> or what service administers the songs to be placed on them.
>
> -CC

You're the first I hear to bitch about I-Pods being strictly
constrained by I-tunes software. As others have stated in the thread,
you can attain 3rd party apps. If you wanna avoid I-Pods, use a
cellphone instead. They got less capacity, but it shouldn't be a
problem if it can play MP4s (unlike MP3 players) which give you the
same quality at half the bitrate, or even a lower bitrate where
artifacts are noticeable, but not annoying. All you need is a USB port
and you can manage your songs in explorer and can do the same on the
explorer provided on your cell phone's OS.

ChrisCoaster

August 10th 08, 01:22 PM

On Aug 9, 3:14*pm, Industrial One > wrote:
> On Aug 8, 7:38 pm, ChrisCoaster > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 8, 6:40 pm, Industrial One > wrote:> > That'll be fine, I-One! *:) *You know I don't want I-pod because it
> > > > can "fill up" at only "some" "gas stations".
>
> > > > -CC
>
> > > Meaning...?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > ________________
> > The I-Pod family of players MUST be administered through I-tunes, and
> > only on the computer they were hooked up to during installation of I-
> > tunes. *That is, if Industrial One tries to download and categorize
> > and otherwise manage songs through ChrisCoaster's I-tunes on his
> > computer, or vice versa, it won't work.
>
> > Most other MP3 players don't care what computer they are hooked up to
> > or what service administers the songs to be placed on them.
>
> > -CC
>
> You're the first I hear to bitch about I-Pods being strictly
> constrained by I-tunes software. As others have stated in the thread,
> you can attain 3rd party apps. If you wanna avoid I-Pods, use a
> cellphone instead. They got less capacity, but it shouldn't be a
> problem if it can play MP4s (unlike MP3 players) which give you the
> same quality at half the bitrate, or even a lower bitrate where
> artifacts are noticeable, but not annoying. All you need is a USB port
> and you can manage your songs in explorer and can do the same on the
> explorer provided on your cell phone's OS.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
____________________
Let's be clear about each other here - I-One: Until June of 2007 I
was still recording to CASSETTES - okay?

Then I found out how easy it is to combine 20 of your favorite "heart-
songs" on one CD. But when it comes to all this mp-this and mp-that,
I'm as clueless as ole' Howdy-Doody there on 1600 Penn Ave! I just
want a mp3 player that when you USB it to the PC, it opens a folder
where you can see the device's contents. Then, you open another
window and navigate to your music folder, and just DRAG & DROP files
from the music folder to the device folder - SIMPLE, ehh?

I don't need fancy colorful lah-di-dah(wagging my wrist) interfaces
and more programs clogging up my hard-drive to manage my content.
I'm just like a US Postoffice clerk, grab a freakin' handful o' mail
out of one bucket and throw it in another. DONE!

As far as the I-family, I have nothing bad to say about their
interface or durability. I do hope the flash-mp3 manufacturers learn
something from Apple and up their quality even a little. But that's
just me - I'm a FLASH n' GO beat-droppin' sonofaBITCH! =D

-CC

Industrial One

August 10th 08, 05:01 PM

On Aug 10, 6:22 am, ChrisCoaster > wrote:
> On Aug 9, 3:14 pm, Industrial One > wrote:
>
> > On Aug 8, 7:38 pm, ChrisCoaster > wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 8, 6:40 pm, Industrial One > wrote:> > That'll be fine, I-One! :) You know I don't want I-pod because it
> > > > > can "fill up" at only "some" "gas stations".
>
> > > > > -CC
>
> > > > Meaning...?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > ________________
> > > The I-Pod family of players MUST be administered through I-tunes, and
> > > only on the computer they were hooked up to during installation of I-
> > > tunes. That is, if Industrial One tries to download and categorize
> > > and otherwise manage songs through ChrisCoaster's I-tunes on his
> > > computer, or vice versa, it won't work.
>
> > > Most other MP3 players don't care what computer they are hooked up to
> > > or what service administers the songs to be placed on them.
>
> > > -CC
>
> > You're the first I hear to bitch about I-Pods being strictly
> > constrained by I-tunes software. As others have stated in the thread,
> > you can attain 3rd party apps. If you wanna avoid I-Pods, use a
> > cellphone instead. They got less capacity, but it shouldn't be a
> > problem if it can play MP4s (unlike MP3 players) which give you the
> > same quality at half the bitrate, or even a lower bitrate where
> > artifacts are noticeable, but not annoying. All you need is a USB port
> > and you can manage your songs in explorer and can do the same on the
> > explorer provided on your cell phone's OS.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> ____________________
> Let's be clear about each other here - I-One: Until June of 2007 I
> was still recording to CASSETTES - okay?

Wow...

> Then I found out how easy it is to combine 20 of your favorite "heart-
> songs" on one CD. But when it comes to all this mp-this and mp-that,
> I'm as clueless as ole' Howdy-Doody there on 1600 Penn Ave! I just
> want a mp3 player that when you USB it to the PC, it opens a folder
> where you can see the device's contents. Then, you open another
> window and navigate to your music folder, and just DRAG & DROP files
> from the music folder to the device folder - SIMPLE, ehh?

MP3: outdated format (but popular)
MP4: new format

They are a way of compressing audio by removing a large portion that
is inaudible to human ears. MP3 is old (1991) so high-quality can be
achieved at really high bitrates like 192. 224 for MP2 since it's
older and less efficient. MP3 does not employ the SBR technique like
MP4 that takes advantage of how human ears linearly perceive varying
harmonics/chords and compresses the song to half the bitrate while
retaining the same quality. Meaning, you can fit twice as more music
on whatever player you're using.

And yes, most Cell phones connect via USB, opens a window with your
phone's root directory, you browse to 'Music' and that's where you can
drag n drop your .MP3s/.MP4s in.

> I don't need fancy colorful lah-di-dah(wagging my wrist) interfaces
> and more programs clogging up my hard-drive to manage my content.
> I'm just like a US Postoffice clerk, grab a freakin' handful o' mail
> out of one bucket and throw it in another. DONE!

Nor do I. An MP4 encoder is only like 500 KB, an MP4 splitter about
250, a player (I use WinAMP, which is about 15 megs but older versions
with the same interface are like 800.) If you talkin about your cell
phone's HD space, then you need nothing except your music. Everything
is pre-installed.

Now do you unnerstan?

ChrisCoaster

August 10th 08, 06:49 PM

On Aug 10, 12:01*pm, Industrial One >
wrote:

>
> Nor do I. An MP4 encoder is only like 500 KB, an MP4 splitter about
> 250, a player (I use WinAMP, which is about 15 megs but older versions
> with the same interface are like 800.) If you talkin about your cell
> phone's HD space, then you need nothing except your music. Everything
> is pre-installed.
>
> Now do you unnerstan?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
_____________________
I'm also a very pragmatic, routine-dependent individual with well-
established(read: antiquated) habits. I use an iron to press my
shirts, a vacuum cleaner to clean my carpets, a digital camera to take
pictures, a CD or cassette player to play music, a TV to watch the
news/sports, and a phone to talk to other people. I still mail in a
check to pay my bills, fry my bacon in a pan as opposed to microwaving
it, and 70% of the music I listen still comes from the radio.

This mp4 thing sounds very promising, and can't wait until actual
players come out that handle the new codec. But for now, a good flash-
memory mp3 player of about 4-8gig is all I need.

By the way Indy, who won the last 30 world series?? - I'm a little
behind on things. ;)

-CC

ChrisCoaster

August 18th 08, 10:40 PM

On Aug 6, 9:53*pm, "Richard Crowley" > wrote:
> "ChrisCoaster" *wrote ...
>
> > Answer to your ?? - CDRW.
>
> I would switch to CDR instantly.
>
> > I should have mentioned it - but the old stereo is having this trouble
> > MAINLY with the first 3 - 6 tracks of the CDs I've burned at home.
> > In addition, the older boombox is *starting* to have trouble reading
> > some of the ones I recorded at work(I recorded them over a year ago at
> > a job I'm no longer at, so they are probably starting to deteriorate).
>
> Indeed, I have an old old Sony CD player with gummed-up
> lubrication on the "sled" so that it will play only the inner part
> of the disc. *Requires cleaning and re-lubrication. But you
> could probably buy a new player (or two) for what it would
> cost to get repaired.
>
> > Not to mention, but I'm putting over 75 minutes of music on a format
> > that holds 79 min & change.
>
> I do that with some regularity. It should NOT affect the readability.
> Except that some older players don't like the 80-minute blanks.
> Because they have a finer pitch which was not anticipated in those
> old 1-2 generation of players.
>
> > *I know that CDs are read from the spindle
> > out to the edge(opposite of records), but I have to wonder, is the
> > read arm of this player simply not capable of "reaching" the tracks
> > toward the inside of the CD with that much burned to it?
> > If the contrast is an issue, I will be sure to purchase CDRs in the
> > future - and possibly even re-burn some of my CD-RW collections onto
> > them.
>
> And try experimenting with slower burning speeds. Who cares if
> you can write the disk at 56x if nobody can read it?
>
> > Are CD-Rs still available? *Dumb question, but I had to ask!
>
> Yes, they are available as always.
>
> I use Taiyo-Yuden CDR and DVDR discs *exclusively*. They cost
> a few pennies more (literally) but they are MUCH more reliable and
> they eliminate the whole disc quality issue when debugging problems.
___________________________
UPDATE:

Bought some Memorex CD-Rs and the situation is WORSE!! The 12year old
Kenwood bookshelf and the 11year old boombox will not play them at
ALL!
The Kenwood still plays the CD-RWs I made over a year ago at my old
job and the boombox is starting to have issues with some of
those(deterioration). But this new CD-R thing is a DISASTER.

Richard, I appreciate all your help & putting up with me, but I'm
through with burning the CDs and will use an MP3 player wherever I
need music. Nothing can touch a CD bought in a STORE, and that's it.

-CC

Richard Crowley

August 18th 08, 10:50 PM

"ChrisCoaster" wrote ...
> UPDATE:
> Bought some Memorex CD-Rs and the situation is WORSE!!

You've jumped out of the frying pan and directly into the
fire! "Memorex" is another OEM-du-jour label that gets
slapped on any old brand of discs, almost none of which
are known to be 1st class (and only a couple are 2nd class).
With "Memorex" you may have only a 10% chance of getting
a good brand of discs. That is ****-poor odds in my book.
I wouldn't use "Memorex" if they were free. Just not worth
the aggravation.

Use Taiyo-Yuden from a reliable vendor. You can NOT
buy good CDR or DVDR blanks at local shops anymore.

Refer to this page to see which brands are which.....
http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm

ChrisCoaster

August 19th 08, 01:23 AM

On Aug 18, 5:50*pm, "Richard Crowley" > wrote:
> "ChrisCoaster" *wrote ...
>
> > UPDATE:
> > Bought some Memorex CD-Rs and the situation is WORSE!!
>
> You've jumped out of the frying pan and directly into the
> fire! *"Memorex" is another OEM-du-jour label that gets
> slapped on any old brand of discs, almost none of which
> are known to be 1st class (and only a couple are 2nd class).
> With "Memorex" you may have only a 10% chance of getting
> a good brand of discs. That is ****-poor odds in my book.
> I wouldn't use "Memorex" if they were free. *Just not worth
> the aggravation.
>
> Use Taiyo-Yuden from a reliable vendor. You can NOT
> buy good CDR or DVDR blanks at local shops anymore.
>
> Refer to this page to see which brands are which.....http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm
_____________________________
I also did follow the recommendations on here to lower my burning
speed.

The irony is that the discs that DO play on all our hardware were made
last year at work on the Imation brand of CD-RW(another brand "nobody
seems to have heard of" and many trash incessantly.) It is just in
the last month that we started having trouble with them on the older
hardware.

Richard I'd be more willing to blame the CD/DVD burner in my new HP
Pavillion Tower before blaming my wife's Kenwood, my JVC boombox from
1997, or the brands of discs I mentioned. I'll be contacting HP this
week. I'm betting on a misaligned burner lens or some other error-
inducing factor.

-CC

ChrisCoaster

August 19th 08, 01:27 AM

On Aug 18, 5:50*pm, "Richard Crowley" > wrote:
> "ChrisCoaster" *wrote ...
>
> > UPDATE:
> > Bought some Memorex CD-Rs and the situation is WORSE!!
>
> You've jumped out of the frying pan and directly into the
> fire! *"Memorex" is another OEM-du-jour label that gets
> slapped on any old brand of discs, almost none of which
> are known to be 1st class (and only a couple are 2nd class).
> With "Memorex" you may have only a 10% chance of getting
> a good brand of discs. That is ****-poor odds in my book.
> I wouldn't use "Memorex" if they were free. *Just not worth
> the aggravation.
>
> Use Taiyo-Yuden from a reliable vendor. You can NOT
> buy good CDR or DVDR blanks at local shops anymore.
>
> Refer to this page to see which brands are which.....http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm
______________________
Also ironic: In the Branding Guide table toward the bottom of that
page, it turns out that Sony and Taiyo-Yuden are one and the same.
The most recend CD-RWs I used(last month) were SONYS!!

The problem is my hardware/OS, Rich, not the brands of blank media.

-CC

ChrisCoaster

August 19th 08, 02:05 AM

ChrisCoaster

August 19th 08, 02:15 AM

On Aug 18, 9:05*pm, ChrisCoaster > wrote:
> On Aug 18, 5:50*pm, "Richard Crowley" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > "ChrisCoaster" *wrote ...
>
> > > UPDATE:
> > > Bought some Memorex CD-Rs and the situation is WORSE!!
>
> > You've jumped out of the frying pan and directly into the
> > fire! *"Memorex" is another OEM-du-jour label that gets
> > slapped on any old brand of discs, almost none of which
> > are known to be 1st class (and only a couple are 2nd class).
> > With "Memorex" you may have only a 10% chance of getting
> > a good brand of discs. That is ****-poor odds in my book.
> > I wouldn't use "Memorex" if they were free. *Just not worth
> > the aggravation.
>
> > Use Taiyo-Yuden from a reliable vendor. You can NOT
> > buy good CDR or DVDR blanks at local shops anymore.
>
> > Refer to this page to see which brands are which.....http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm
>
> ________________
> More BS: *I lowered burn rate to "Medium" and now even my brand new
> Sony "X-Plod" boombox *http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=148571&om_keycode=93
> won't play the discs. *This is totally IRAQ!
>
> -CC- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
_____________________
Set burn rate back to "Fastest", the X-Plod now reads fine, Kenwood
and JVC struggle with first 4-5 tracks but read others as usual.

hmmm.

Richard Crowley

August 19th 08, 02:50 AM

"ChrisCoaster" wrote ...
> "Richard Crowley" wrote:
>> Refer to this page to see which brands are which.....
>> http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm
>
>Also ironic: In the Branding Guide table toward the bottom of that
> page, it turns out that Sony and Taiyo-Yuden are one and the same.

No. It says that disks labeled "Sony" *might be* Taiyo-Yuden,
or they could be Sony or Ricoh or maybe even Mitsubishi.
That's the thing with most of those brands, you never really know
what you're getting. As Dirty Harry said: "Do you feel lucky?"
I don't.

I buy T-Y because...
1) They make all their own discs. They don't OEM from anyone else.
2) They have the highest quality and reputation.
3) They cost literally a few cents more than the questionable brands,
but those few cents are worth eliminating the aggravation factor.

Remember that because T-Y has such a good reputation, there are
people out there selling counterfeit T-Y discs, so buy only from a
reputable, official source, and study the information about how to
identify counterfeit discs.

ChrisCoaster

August 20th 08, 12:44 AM

On Aug 18, 9:50*pm, "Richard Crowley" > wrote:
> "ChrisCoaster" *wrote ...
>
> > "Richard Crowley" *wrote:
> >> Refer to this page to see which brands are which.....
> >>http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm
>
> >Also ironic: In the Branding Guide table toward the bottom of that
> > page, it turns out that Sony and Taiyo-Yuden are one and the same.
>
> No. It says that disks labeled "Sony" *might be* Taiyo-Yuden,
> or they could be Sony or Ricoh or maybe even Mitsubishi.
> That's the thing with most of those brands, you never really know
> what you're getting. *As Dirty Harry said: "Do you feel lucky?"
> I don't.
>
> I buy T-Y because...
> 1) They make all their own discs. They don't OEM from anyone else.
> 2) They have the highest quality and reputation.
> 3) They cost literally a few cents more than the questionable brands,
> but those few cents are worth eliminating the aggravation factor.
>
> Remember that because T-Y has such a good reputation, there are
> people out there selling counterfeit T-Y discs, so buy only from a
> reputable, official source, and study the information about how to
> identify counterfeit discs.
_______________________
Well, it's a moot point. I've seen 2018, and boomboxes have USB-ports
and cradles for mp3-players. FM & AM are still around, but the signal
chain up to the tx is totally digital. No longer are records, tapes,
OR CDs spun to play music. 1/8" mini line-in jacks still exist on
boomboxes and on car stereos, and car stereos also have USB-ports and
minimum 500gB harddrives. The only cars in 2018 that still have cd or
cassette decks are at doo-wopp car meets! Nobody buys software on a
CD or DVD anymore - it's downloaded at 100x current cable internet
speeds and backups are made on 100gb thumbdrives the size of a pencil
eraser.

I've moved on from CD burning, and am evaluating mp3 players.
It's(been) the way to go!(for the last 6 years!!) I refuse to waste
my money, time, & not to mention, NERVES, on something which for
certain will be obsolete in less than 10 years.

-CC