Neutrik ignored by high end industry

[BretLudwig]

Neutrik has two products, the PowerCon and Speakon connector series, that
are way superior to the competition. Both have been utterly ignored by the
high end although Speakon is sort of successful in pro touring sound.

Why is this?

My theory: Audio Scientology at work.


--
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[Vinylanach]

On Jun 19, 6:48�pm, "BretLudwig" > wrote:
> �Neutrik has two products, the PowerCon and Speakon connector series, that
> are way superior to the competition. Both have been utterly ignored by the
> high end although Speakon is sort of successful in pro touring sound.
>
> �Why is this?
>
> �My theory: Audio Scientology at work.

My old Rega P25 had Neutrik connectors. While they appeared to be
solidly constructed, they were a bit too thick in circumference to
work with some RCA jacks that were grouped too closely. This might be
one reason...compatibility with a wide range of jacks.

Boon

[Arny Krueger]

"BretLudwig" > wrote in message
lkaboutaudio.com
> Neutrik has two products, the PowerCon and Speakon
> connector series, that are way superior to the
> competition. Both have been utterly ignored by the high
> end although Speakon is sort of successful in pro touring
> sound.

You didn't mention their most sucessful products, the XLRs.

> Why is this?

> My theory: Audio Scientology at work.

No, its about a market dominated by clueless audiophile-consumers, as
opposed to audio production people, who simply have to get good-sounding
work done.

[BretLudwig]

>>"My theory: Audio Scientology at work.

My old Rega P25 had Neutrik connectors. While they appeared to be
solidly constructed, they were a bit too thick in circumference to
work with some RCA jacks that were grouped too closely. This might be
one reason...compatibility with a wide range of jacks."<<

While Neutrik makes 1/4" TRS, RCA, and XLR connectors they primarily are
known for proprietary products, of which the SpeakOn and PowerCon are two.
They are plastic locking connectors designed for amplifier-to-speaker and
power cord-to-unit use. (The only difference is intended use: they are
deliberately noninterchangeable, but either would work for either use in
terms of design standards.)

They also made a Lemo-like line of circular connectors, but which were
not compatible with Lemo. Dumb.

Incidentally, the RCA connector sucks and the continuing acceptance of it
in alleged "high end audio" is in and of itself a serious concern.... XLR
would be radically better.

--
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[BretLudwig]

Arny:

>>"You didn't mention their most sucessful products, the XLRs.

Why is this?"<<

Because the XLR, like RCA and 1/4" are not proprietary to Neutrik.

Neutrik does however make a combo XLR/1/4" and a combo 1/4"/Speakon. I
personally think using 1/4" for both instrument and speaker cables is a
Stupid Idea right up there with the RCA though.....and, even worse.

There's also the little problem of there being two different incompatible
1/4" connectors, the true phone plug (called "longframe") that is used in
WE and compatible telco equipment, and the 1/4" popularly called a "phone
plug" that is nothing of the sort used on electric guitars and guitar amps
as well as associated equipment and stereo headphones. Some call the latter
a "pseudophone".

--
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[BretLudwig]

>>"François Yves Le Gal
View profile
On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 20:48:25 -0500, "BretLudwig" >
wrote: > Why is this? Unobtainium plated speaker binding posts and mains
connectors manufactured by zen monks in Nova Scotia sound much better,
everybody knows it.
More options Jun 20, 8:04 am
Newsgroups: rec.audio.opinion
From: François Yves Le Gal >
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 15:04:39 +0200
Local: Fri, Jun 20 2008 8:04 am
Subject: Re: Neutrik ignored by high end industry
Reply | Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show
original | Report this message | Find messages by this author

Note: The author of this message requested that it not be archived. This
message will be removed from Groups in 6 days (Jun 27, 8:04 am).


On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 20:48:25 -0500, "BretLudwig" >
wrote:
> Why is this?

Unobtainium plated speaker binding posts and mains connectors
manufactured
by zen monks in Nova Scotia sound much better, everybody knows it."<<



Nope. The real unobtanium is only found south of the Equator.

--
Message posted using http://www.talkaboutaudio.com/group/rec.audio.opinion/
More information at http://www.talkaboutaudio.com/faq.html

[Vinylanach]

On Jun 20, 5:08�am, "BretLudwig" > wrote:
> >>"My theory: Audio Scientology at work.
>
> My old Rega P25 had Neutrik connectors. �While they appeared to be
> solidly constructed, they were a bit too thick in circumference to
> work with some RCA jacks that were grouped too closely. �This might be
> one reason...compatibility with a wide range of jacks."<<
>
> �While Neutrik makes 1/4" TRS, RCA, and XLR connectors they primarily are
> known for proprietary products, of which the SpeakOn and PowerCon are two..
> They are plastic locking connectors designed for amplifier-to-speaker and
> power cord-to-unit use. �(The only difference is intended use: they are
> deliberately noninterchangeable, but either would work for either use in
> terms of design standards.)
>
> �They also made a Lemo-like line of circular connectors, but which were
> not compatible with Lemo. Dumb.
>
> �Incidentally, the RCA connector sucks and the continuing acceptance of it
> in alleged "high end audio" is in and of itself a serious concern.... XLR
> would be radically better.

I use XLR wherever possible. While I believe there is a slight sonic
advantage, depending upon cables, the greatest advantage to using XLR
is being able to use long lengths without any degradation.

Boon

[Eeyore]

BretLudwig wrote:

> Neutrik has two products, the PowerCon and Speakon connector series, that
> are way superior to the competition. Both have been utterly ignored by the
> high end although Speakon is sort of successful in pro touring sound.
>
> Why is this?

Simple.

1. The PowerCon is not certified for domestic use, only Industrial. It may NOT
be used on domestic equipment falling under the scope of IEC 60065.

2. The Speakon, whilst excellent, is designed for rigs that need to be put
together and 'broken apart' every night on long tours and do this years in,
years out without failing. AND handle powers up to (I forget exactly) about
8kW.

It's also BIG, a bit clumsy to use (especially older versions) and mildly
expensive (although cheaper than most audio snake-oil ****e).

Speakons are massive overkill then compared to a decent binding post that will
do nicely for something that rarely gets moved.


> My theory: Audio Scientology at work.

No, electrical standards and pragmatism / economics. I see nothing at all wrong
with IEC 320 mains connectors and '4mm' binding posts for home audio.

Graham

[UnsteadyKen]

BretLudwig said:

> Incidentally, the RCA connector sucks and the continuing acceptance of it
> in alleged "high end audio" is in and of itself a serious concern.... XLR
> would be radically better.

In Europe, there was a time in the 70's; before Japan came to
dominate the market; when it looked as though DIN
would become the standard but they faded and were gone by the mid
80's. Good connecting system, though the tiny pins were a bugger to
solder and the loudspeaker connector was a bit suspect.

--
Ken
Contribute to: www.audiophilewiki.org

[Eeyore]

Vinylanach wrote:

> "BretLudwig" wrote:
> > Neutrik has two products, the PowerCon and Speakon connector series, that
> > are way superior to the competition. Both have been utterly ignored by the
> > high end although Speakon is sort of successful in pro touring sound.
> >
> > Why is this?
> >
> > My theory: Audio Scientology at work.

OI, stop posting in Unicode or WTF you're using. Garbage trimmed.


> My old Rega P25 had Neutrik connectors. While they appeared to be
> solidly constructed, they were a bit too thick in circumference to
> work with some RCA jacks that were grouped too closely. This might be
> one reason...compatibility with a wide range of jacks.

RCA jacks are the work of the Devil.

Graham

[Eeyore]

BretLudwig wrote:

> >>"My theory: Audio Scientology at work.
>
> My old Rega P25 had Neutrik connectors. While they appeared to be
> solidly constructed, they were a bit too thick in circumference to
> work with some RCA jacks that were grouped too closely. This might be
> one reason...compatibility with a wide range of jacks."<<

Can't your 'newsreader' even show threading correctly.

There are *standards* for this !

Just how brain dead are you ?

Graham

[Eeyore]

Vinylanach wrote:

> I use XLR wherever possible. While I believe there is a slight sonic
> advantage,

Simply using an XLR per se (all other things being equal) as opposed to a
genuinely well-engineered RCA connector offers ZERO audible benefit. Oh maybe
aside from the fact that silver contacts as often found on XLRs, when they
oxidise, still conduct very well, but we're only talking about marginal stuff
here.


> depending upon cables, the greatest advantage to using XLR
> is being able to use long lengths without any degradation.

No, it's BALANCING that makes that difference over long lengths. PLUS the ability
of the driving output stage to have an adequately low output impedance and current
drive capacity, neither of which are challenges to most audio optimised op-amps
designed in the last 30+ years.

The science has been well known for 40-50 years. An XLR (before XLRs including the
little known XLs, the EP connector, also from Cannon originally) has 3 contacts,
allowing a screen and 2 individual signal conductors. The RCA DOESN'T. If you have
the technical/scientific capability to understand why this is important you'll see
the light.


Graham

[Eeyore]

Arny Krueger wrote:

> "BretLudwig" > wrote in message
>
> > Neutrik has two products, the PowerCon and Speakon
> > connector series, that are way superior to the
> > competition. Both have been utterly ignored by the high
> > end although Speakon is sort of successful in pro touring
> > sound.
>
> You didn't mention their most sucessful products, the XLRs.

Well, it was Cannon's product (ITT Cannon Connectors) originally, but almost
no-one I know today uses anything other than Neutrik brand XLRs except for
cheap Asian imports and even those are pretty good nowadays.

Before Neutrik was around my preference was Switchcraft's version actually.
It didn't tend to lose the cable clamp screws the way XLRs did ( I had to
carry a poly bag of spares for on-site fixes).

Graham

[Eeyore]

BretLudwig wrote:

> There's also the little problem of there being two different incompatible
> 1/4" connectors, the true phone plug (called "longframe") that is used in
> WE and compatible telco equipment,

You'd have to be certifiably BLIND not to see the difference at a GLANCE.

Graham

[Vinylanach]

On Jun 20, 9:31�am, Eeyore >
wrote:
> BretLudwig wrote:
> > �There's also the little problem of there being two different incompatible
> > 1/4" connectors, the true phone plug (called "longframe") that is used in
> > WE and compatible telco equipment,
>
> You'd have to be certifiably BLIND not to see the difference at a GLANCE.
>
> Graham

You know, I applaud your ability to present this information in a
lucid, easy-to-understand manner. What I don't applaud is the fact
that you have to stomp your little feet while doing it. Chill out and
spread the knowledge in a more informative, less childish manner.
TIA.

Boon

[Arny Krueger]

"BretLudwig" > wrote in message
lkaboutaudio.com
>>> "My theory: Audio Scientology at work.
>
> My old Rega P25 had Neutrik connectors. While they
> appeared to be solidly constructed, they were a bit too
> thick in circumference to
> work with some RCA jacks that were grouped too closely.
> This might be one reason...compatibility with a wide
> range of jacks."<<
>
> While Neutrik makes 1/4" TRS, RCA, and XLR connectors
> they primarily are known for proprietary products, of
> which the SpeakOn and PowerCon are two. They are plastic
> locking connectors designed for amplifier-to-speaker and
> power cord-to-unit use. (The only difference is intended
> use: they are deliberately noninterchangeable, but either
> would work for either use in terms of design standards.)

> Incidentally, the RCA connector sucks and the continuing
> acceptance of it in alleged "high end audio" is in and of
> itself a serious concern.... XLR would be radically
> better.

Agreed. Based on the connectors I see in use, Neutrik's sales are dominated
by both their cable-mount and chassis mount XLRs. Speakons second, and
PowerCons a distant third.

[George M. Middius[_4_]]

It's springtime and the 'borgs are in spume.

> > Incidentally, Arney Krueuguer is a piece of ****.

> Agreed.

Agreed.

> > XLR would be radically better.

> Based on the connectors I see in use,

We've covered this topic before, Turdbucket. Any cable that's strong enough
to strangle a 'borg is good enough for any sound system.

[Eeyore]

UnsteadyKen wrote:

> BretLudwig said:
>
> > Incidentally, the RCA connector sucks and the continuing acceptance of it
> > in alleged "high end audio" is in and of itself a serious concern.... XLR
> > would be radically better.
>
> In Europe, there was a time in the 70's; before Japan came to
> dominate the market; when it looked as though DIN
> would become the standard but they faded and were gone by the mid
> 80's. Good connecting system, though the tiny pins were a bugger to
> solder and the loudspeaker connector was a bit suspect.

They were mostly crap.

Graham

[Eeyore]

Vinylanach wrote:

> On Jun 20, 9:31�am, Eeyore >
> wrote:
> > BretLudwig wrote:
> > > �There's also the little problem of there being two different incompatible
> > > 1/4" connectors, the true phone plug (called "longframe") that is used in
> > > WE and compatible telco equipment,
> >
> > You'd have to be certifiably BLIND not to see the difference at a GLANCE.
> >
> > Graham
>
> You know, I applaud your ability to present this information in a
> lucid, easy-to-understand manner. What I don't applaud is the fact
> that you have to stomp your little feet while doing it. Chill out and
> spread the knowledge in a more informative, less childish manner.
> TIA.

Oh **** OFF.

If you can't tell a telephone jack from a TRS you deserve to be boiled in oil.

Graham

[Vinylanach]

On Jun 20, 3:53Â*pm, Eeyore >
wrote:
> Vinylanach wrote:
> > On Jun 20, 9:31�am, Eeyore >
> > wrote:
> > > BretLudwig wrote:
> > > > �There's also the little problem of there being two different incompatible
> > > > 1/4" connectors, the true phone plug (called "longframe") that is used in
> > > > WE and compatible telco equipment,
>
> > > You'd have to be certifiably BLIND not to see the difference at a GLANCE.
>
> > > Graham
>
> > You know, I applaud your ability to present this information in a
> > lucid, easy-to-understand manner. Â*What I don't applaud is the fact
> > that you have to stomp your little feet while doing it. Â*Chill out and
> > spread the knowledge in a more informative, less childish manner.
> > TIA.
>
> Oh **** OFF.
>
> If you can't tell a telephone jack from a TRS you deserve to be boiled in oil.

What a ****ing ******.

Boon

[George M. Middius[_4_]]

Poofie brays in indignation.

> If you can't tell a telephone jack from a TRS you deserve to be boiled in oil.

What are you saying? I thought that was to be my punishment. Don't desert
me, Poofster!

[Bill[_16_]]

In article >,
says...
>
>
> Poofie brays in indignation.
>
> > If you can't tell a telephone jack from a TRS you deserve to be boiled in oil.
>
> What are you saying? I thought that was to be my punishment. Don't desert
> me, Poofster!

And all along I thought it was supposed to be a vat of acid rather than
boiling oil. When did this change and why weren't we informed?

[UnsteadyKen]

Eeyore said:

> They were mostly crap.

I thought the system worked well.

So do Naim

--
Ken
Contribute to: www.audiophilewiki.org

[George M. Middius[_4_]]

Bill said:

> > Poofie brays in indignation.
> >
> > > If you can't tell a telephone jack from a TRS you deserve to be boiled in oil.
> >
> > What are you saying? I thought that was to be my punishment. Don't desert
> > me, Poofster!
>
> And all along I thought it was supposed to be a vat of acid rather than
> boiling oil. When did this change and why weren't we informed?

You're right! Poofie still loves/hates me the most. That's such a relief.
(Acid is worse than boiling oil, right?)

[Eeyore]

Bill wrote:

> says...
> > Poofie brays in indignation.
> >
> > > If you can't tell a telephone jack from a TRS you deserve to be boiled in oil.
> >
> > What are you saying? I thought that was to be my punishment. Don't desert
> > me, Poofster!
>
> And all along I thought it was supposed to be a vat of acid rather than
> boiling oil. When did this change and why weren't we informed?

I can offer both if desired.

Grahan

[Eeyore]

UnsteadyKen wrote:

> Eeyore said:
>
> > They were mostly crap.
>
> I thought the system worked well.

No, they were ****.


> So do Naim

Lucky them !

Graham

[Arny Krueger]

"Eeyore" > wrote in
message
> UnsteadyKen wrote:
>
>> Eeyore said:
>>
>>> They were mostly crap.
>>
>> I thought the system worked well.
>
> No, they were ****.

Agreed. The DIN connector morphed into the mini-DIN connector, widely used
for keyboards, mice, and S-Video. S-Video is being supplanted by HDMI. The
DIN keyboard and mouse connectors are being supplanted by USB.

[Arny Krueger]

"Eeyore" > wrote in
message
> Vinylanach wrote:
>
>> On Jun 20, 9:31�am, Eeyore
>> > wrote:
>>> BretLudwig wrote:
>>>> �There's also the little problem of there being two
>>>> different incompatible 1/4" connectors, the true phone
>>>> plug (called "longframe") that is used in WE and
>>>> compatible telco equipment,
>>>
>>> You'd have to be certifiably BLIND not to see the
>>> difference at a GLANCE.
>>>
>>> Graham
>>
>> You know, I applaud your ability to present this
>> information in a lucid, easy-to-understand manner. What
>> I don't applaud is the fact that you have to stomp your
>> little feet while doing it. Chill out and spread the
>> knowledge in a more informative, less childish manner.
>> TIA.
>
> Oh **** OFF.
>
> If you can't tell a telephone jack from a TRS you deserve
> to be boiled in oil.

Nahh, if you are that stupid, you deserve to be part of the Middiot's posse,
which Marc indeed is.

[Arny Krueger]

"Vinylanach" > wrote in message


> What a ****ing ******.

That's how you raise your status in the Middiot's posse - be so
excruciatingly stupid and arrogant that you are proud of not being able to
tell the difference between a regular TRS and a telephone TRS.

[Jenn[_2_]]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Eeyore" > wrote in
> message
> > Vinylanach wrote:
> >
> >> On Jun 20, 9:31�am, Eeyore
> >> > wrote:
> >>> BretLudwig wrote:
> >>>> �There's also the little problem of there being two
> >>>> different incompatible 1/4" connectors, the true phone
> >>>> plug (called "longframe") that is used in WE and
> >>>> compatible telco equipment,
> >>>
> >>> You'd have to be certifiably BLIND not to see the
> >>> difference at a GLANCE.
> >>>
> >>> Graham
> >>
> >> You know, I applaud your ability to present this
> >> information in a lucid, easy-to-understand manner. What
> >> I don't applaud is the fact that you have to stomp your
> >> little feet while doing it. Chill out and spread the
> >> knowledge in a more informative, less childish manner.
> >> TIA.
> >
> > Oh **** OFF.
> >
> > If you can't tell a telephone jack from a TRS you deserve
> > to be boiled in oil.
>
> Nahh, if you are that stupid, you deserve to be part of the Middiot's posse,
> which Marc indeed is.

Is Marc the "animator"?

[Vinylanach]

On Jun 20, 6:54Â*pm, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> "Eeyore" > wrote in
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Vinylanach wrote:
>
> >> On Jun 20, 9:31�am, Eeyore
> >> > wrote:
> >>> BretLudwig wrote:
> >>>> �There's also the little problem of there being two
> >>>> different incompatible 1/4" connectors, the true phone
> >>>> plug (called "longframe") that is used in WE and
> >>>> compatible telco equipment,
>
> >>> You'd have to be certifiably BLIND not to see the
> >>> difference at a GLANCE.
>
> >>> Graham
>
> >> You know, I applaud your ability to present this
> >> information in a lucid, easy-to-understand manner. Â*What
> >> I don't applaud is the fact that you have to stomp your
> >> little feet while doing it. Â*Chill out and spread the
> >> knowledge in a more informative, less childish manner.
> >> TIA.
>
> > Oh **** OFF.
>
> > If you can't tell a telephone jack from a TRS you deserve
> > to be boiled in oil.
>
> Nahh, if you are that stupid, you deserve to be part of the Middiot's posse,
> which Marc indeed is.-

Which is ironic, since I used to meet phone guys at MPOEs and identify
lines for them when they installed TRS systems.

Boon

[George M. Middius[_4_]]

More scurrilous attacks from the Krooborg.

> > Arny Kreuegeur is a ****.

> Agreed.

Agreed.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in message

> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "Eeyore" > wrote
>> in
>> message
>>> Vinylanach wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Jun 20, 9:31�am, Eeyore
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>> BretLudwig wrote:
>>>>>> �There's also the little problem of there being two
>>>>>> different incompatible 1/4" connectors, the true
>>>>>> phone plug (called "longframe") that is used in WE
>>>>>> and compatible telco equipment,
>>>>>
>>>>> You'd have to be certifiably BLIND not to see the
>>>>> difference at a GLANCE.
>>>>>
>>>>> Graham
>>>>
>>>> You know, I applaud your ability to present this
>>>> information in a lucid, easy-to-understand manner.
>>>> What I don't applaud is the fact that you have to
>>>> stomp your little feet while doing it. Chill out and
>>>> spread the knowledge in a more informative, less
>>>> childish manner. TIA.
>>>
>>> Oh **** OFF.
>>>
>>> If you can't tell a telephone jack from a TRS you
>>> deserve to be boiled in oil.
>>
>> Nahh, if you are that stupid, you deserve to be part of
>> the Middiot's posse, which Marc indeed is.

> Is Marc the "animator"?

Mentally speaking, he's hard-pressed to animate his own persona.

[Jenn[_2_]]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Eeyore" > wrote
> >> in
> >> message
> >>> Vinylanach wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Jun 20, 9:31�am, Eeyore
> >>>> > wrote:
> >>>>> BretLudwig wrote:
> >>>>>> �There's also the little problem of there being two
> >>>>>> different incompatible 1/4" connectors, the true
> >>>>>> phone plug (called "longframe") that is used in WE
> >>>>>> and compatible telco equipment,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You'd have to be certifiably BLIND not to see the
> >>>>> difference at a GLANCE.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Graham
> >>>>
> >>>> You know, I applaud your ability to present this
> >>>> information in a lucid, easy-to-understand manner.
> >>>> What I don't applaud is the fact that you have to
> >>>> stomp your little feet while doing it. Chill out and
> >>>> spread the knowledge in a more informative, less
> >>>> childish manner. TIA.
> >>>
> >>> Oh **** OFF.
> >>>
> >>> If you can't tell a telephone jack from a TRS you
> >>> deserve to be boiled in oil.
> >>
> >> Nahh, if you are that stupid, you deserve to be part of
> >> the Middiot's posse, which Marc indeed is.
>
> > Is Marc the "animator"?
>
> Mentally speaking, he's hard-pressed to animate his own persona.

Well, there's one candidate down then.

[Vinylanach]

On Jun 20, 7:16Â*pm, Jenn > wrote:
> In article >,
> Â*"Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> > > In article >,
> > > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
> > >> "Eeyore" > wrote
> > >> in
> > >>
> > >>> Vinylanach wrote:
>
> > >>>> On Jun 20, 9:31�am, Eeyore
> > >>>> > wrote:
> > >>>>> BretLudwig wrote:
> > >>>>>> �There's also the little problem of there being two
> > >>>>>> different incompatible 1/4" connectors, the true
> > >>>>>> phone plug (called "longframe") that is used in WE
> > >>>>>> and compatible telco equipment,
>
> > >>>>> You'd have to be certifiably BLIND not to see the
> > >>>>> difference at a GLANCE.
>
> > >>>>> Graham
>
> > >>>> You know, I applaud your ability to present this
> > >>>> information in a lucid, easy-to-understand manner.
> > >>>> What I don't applaud is the fact that you have to
> > >>>> stomp your little feet while doing it. Â*Chill out and
> > >>>> spread the knowledge in a more informative, less
> > >>>> childish manner. TIA.
>
> > >>> Oh **** OFF.
>
> > >>> If you can't tell a telephone jack from a TRS you
> > >>> deserve to be boiled in oil.
>
> > >> Nahh, if you are that stupid, you deserve to be part of
> > >> the Middiot's posse, which Marc indeed is.
>
> > > Is Marc the "animator"?
>
> > Mentally speaking, he's hard-pressed to animate his own persona.
>
> Well, there's one candidate down then.-

Actually, Arny has accused George and me of being the same person on
several occasions. He just wants to look cool in front of a girl
right now.

Boon

[Arny Krueger]

"Vinylanach" > wrote in message

> On Jun 20, 7:16 pm, Jenn >
> wrote:
>> In article
>> >, "Arny
>> Krueger" > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>> In article
>>>> >, "Arny
>>>> Krueger" > wrote:
>>
>>>>> "Eeyore" >
>>>>> wrote in
>>>>>
>>>>>> Vinylanach wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> On Jun 20, 9:31?am, Eeyore
>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>> BretLudwig wrote:
>>>>>>>>> ?There's also the little problem of there being
>>>>>>>>> two different incompatible 1/4" connectors, the
>>>>>>>>> true phone plug (called "longframe") that is used
>>>>>>>>> in WE and compatible telco equipment,
>>
>>>>>>>> You'd have to be certifiably BLIND not to see the
>>>>>>>> difference at a GLANCE.
>>
>>>>>>>> Graham
>>
>>>>>>> You know, I applaud your ability to present this
>>>>>>> information in a lucid, easy-to-understand manner.
>>>>>>> What I don't applaud is the fact that you have to
>>>>>>> stomp your little feet while doing it. Chill out and
>>>>>>> spread the knowledge in a more informative, less
>>>>>>> childish manner. TIA.
>>
>>>>>> Oh **** OFF.
>>
>>>>>> If you can't tell a telephone jack from a TRS you
>>>>>> deserve to be boiled in oil.
>>
>>>>> Nahh, if you are that stupid, you deserve to be part
>>>>> of the Middiot's posse, which Marc indeed is.
>>
>>>> Is Marc the "animator"?
>>
>>> Mentally speaking, he's hard-pressed to animate his own
>>> persona.
>>
>> Well, there's one candidate down then.-
>
> Actually, Arny has accused George and me of being the
> same person on several occasions.

Many years ago, but it might be true. They share many similarities.

> He just wants to look cool in front of a girl right now.

I don't think there are any women that I would want to impress currently
posting to RAO.

[UnsteadyKen]

Eeyore said:

> No, they were ****.

I stand corrected.

--
Ken
Contribute to: www.audiophilewiki.org

[George M. Middius[_4_]]

Jenn said:

> > > Is Marc the "animator"?
> >
> > Mentally speaking, he's hard-pressed to animate his own persona.
>
> Well, there's one candidate down then.

No, you can't come back in the "posse". You're on your own.

[Jenn[_2_]]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Vinylanach" > wrote in message
>
> > On Jun 20, 7:16 pm, Jenn >
> > wrote:
> >> In article
> >> >, "Arny
> >> Krueger" > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >>>
> >>>> In article
> >>>> >, "Arny
> >>>> Krueger" > wrote:
> >>
> >>>>> "Eeyore" >
> >>>>> wrote in
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Vinylanach wrote:
> >>
> >>>>>>> On Jun 20, 9:31?am, Eeyore
> >>>>>>> > wrote:
> >>>>>>>> BretLudwig wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> ?There's also the little problem of there being
> >>>>>>>>> two different incompatible 1/4" connectors, the
> >>>>>>>>> true phone plug (called "longframe") that is used
> >>>>>>>>> in WE and compatible telco equipment,
> >>
> >>>>>>>> You'd have to be certifiably BLIND not to see the
> >>>>>>>> difference at a GLANCE.
> >>
> >>>>>>>> Graham
> >>
> >>>>>>> You know, I applaud your ability to present this
> >>>>>>> information in a lucid, easy-to-understand manner.
> >>>>>>> What I don't applaud is the fact that you have to
> >>>>>>> stomp your little feet while doing it. Chill out and
> >>>>>>> spread the knowledge in a more informative, less
> >>>>>>> childish manner. TIA.
> >>
> >>>>>> Oh **** OFF.
> >>
> >>>>>> If you can't tell a telephone jack from a TRS you
> >>>>>> deserve to be boiled in oil.
> >>
> >>>>> Nahh, if you are that stupid, you deserve to be part
> >>>>> of the Middiot's posse, which Marc indeed is.
> >>
> >>>> Is Marc the "animator"?
> >>
> >>> Mentally speaking, he's hard-pressed to animate his own
> >>> persona.
> >>
> >> Well, there's one candidate down then.-
> >
> > Actually, Arny has accused George and me of being the
> > same person on several occasions.
>
> Many years ago, but it might be true. They share many similarities.
>
> > He just wants to look cool in front of a girl right now.
>
> I don't think there are any women that I would want to impress currently
> posting to RAO.

You're in no danger.

[Vinylanach]

On Jun 20, 7:36�pm, Jenn > wrote:
> In article >,
> �"Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Vinylanach" > wrote in message
>
> > > On Jun 20, 7:16 pm, Jenn >
> > > wrote:
> > >> In article
> > >> >, "Arny
> > >> Krueger" > wrote:
>
> > >>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >
> > >>>> In article
> > >>>> >, "Arny
> > >>>> Krueger" > wrote:
>
> > >>>>> "Eeyore" >
> > >>>>> wrote in
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Vinylanach wrote:
>
> > >>>>>>> On Jun 20, 9:31?am, Eeyore
> > >>>>>>> > wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> BretLudwig wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>> ?There's also the little problem of there being
> > >>>>>>>>> two different incompatible 1/4" connectors, the
> > >>>>>>>>> true phone plug (called "longframe") that is used
> > >>>>>>>>> in WE and compatible telco equipment,
>
> > >>>>>>>> You'd have to be certifiably BLIND not to see the
> > >>>>>>>> difference at a GLANCE.
>
> > >>>>>>>> Graham
>
> > >>>>>>> You know, I applaud your ability to present this
> > >>>>>>> information in a lucid, easy-to-understand manner.
> > >>>>>>> What I don't applaud is the fact that you have to
> > >>>>>>> stomp your little feet while doing it. Chill out and
> > >>>>>>> spread the knowledge in a more informative, less
> > >>>>>>> childish manner. TIA.
>
> > >>>>>> Oh **** OFF.
>
> > >>>>>> If you can't tell a telephone jack from a TRS you
> > >>>>>> deserve to be boiled in oil.
>
> > >>>>> Nahh, if you are that stupid, you deserve to be part
> > >>>>> of the Middiot's posse, which Marc indeed is.
>
> > >>>> Is Marc the "animator"?
>
> > >>> Mentally speaking, he's hard-pressed to animate his own
> > >>> persona.
>
> > >> Well, there's one candidate down then.-
>
> > > Actually, Arny has accused George and me of being the
> > > same person on several occasions.
>
> > Many years ago, but it might be true. They share many similarities.
>
> > > He just wants to look �cool in front of a girl right now.
>
> > I don't think there are any women that I would want to impress currently
> > posting to RAO.
>
> You're in no danger.

LOL!

There's always Annika. She always liked Arny. Too bad she was a guy.

Boon

[George M. Middius[_4_]]

Arnii "Dumb as dirt" Krooborg whined:

> > Actually, Arny has accused George and me of being the
> > same person on several occasions.
>
> They share many similarities.

Let's get real, Turdbucket. The only Usenet posters who don't share the
"many similarities" you perceive are the Kroopologists. Speaking of which,
got any plans to ramp up your recruiting? You're completely isolated on RAO
now. Your "enemies" are beating the crap out of you (and that's not a small
job, either).

[RapidRonnie]

On Jun 20, 11:12 am, Eeyore >
wrote:
> BretLudwig wrote:
> > Neutrik has two products, the PowerCon and Speakon connector series, that
> > are way superior to the competition. Both have been utterly ignored by the
> > high end although Speakon is sort of successful in pro touring sound.
>
> > Why is this?
>
> Simple.
>
> 1. The PowerCon is not certified for domestic use, only Industrial. It may NOT
> be used on domestic equipment falling under the scope of IEC 60065.
>
> 2. The Speakon, whilst excellent, is designed for rigs that need to be put
> together and 'broken apart' every night on long tours and do this years in,
> years out without failing. AND handle powers up to (I forget exactly) about
> 8kW.
>
> It's also BIG, a bit clumsy to use (especially older versions) and mildly
> expensive (although cheaper than most audio snake-oil ****e).
>
> Speakons are massive overkill then compared to a decent binding post that will
> do nicely for something that rarely gets moved.
>
> > My theory: Audio Scientology at work.
>
> No, electrical standards and pragmatism / economics. I see nothing at all wrong
> with IEC 320 mains connectors and '4mm' binding posts for home audio.


The way to get round the certifying agencies is to certify the box as
"industrial" in the first place.

IEC 320 is not a high end connector at all. The old ones on US office
and kitchen equipments were mostly better in terms of contact area and
so forth. Euro plugs were not because copper was far more at a premium
in Europe than the US throughout most of the 20th Century.

I suspect IEC 320 is not legal for 230VAC balanced power in the US
and that a locking recessed NEMA plug is the only legal alternative,
except a hardwired cordset. US 220/240 appliances are sold without
cordset and the cordset is user attached via swaged terminals and
screws on a terminal block. I know Bret is big on 220V balanced
power. He's right: ham radio operators understood that in the 50s.

[RapidRonnie]

On Jun 20, 11:31 am, Eeyore >
wrote:
> BretLudwig wrote:
> > There's also the little problem of there being two different incompatible
> > 1/4" connectors, the true phone plug (called "longframe") that is used in
> > WE and compatible telco equipment,
>
> You'd have to be certifiably BLIND not to see the difference at a GLANCE.

Then large numbers of people in the telecom contract industry and
most call center personnel are certifiably blind. In fact many
refurbishers of call center telecom equipment routinely replace the
contact blocks in AT&T/Avaya Callmasters because agents persist in
using 1/4" Radio Shack or Guitar Center cables for extensions. It says
"Phone Plug" and works after a fashion, so why not?

Perhaps you are confusing "Longframe" with Bantam, or some connector
that is used in Australia or NZ we don't have here. In the US, the WE
switchboard plug is a thing that as Bret says, looks "just like" the
"phone plug" used for guitars, except for a more bulbous end. Of
course it isn't. Interchanging will give intermittent connections and
damage the female parts.

[Clyde Slick]

On 22 Iun, 08:56, RapidRonnie > wrote:

In the US, the WE
> switchboard plug is a thing that as Bret says, looks "just like" the
> "phone plug" used for guitars, except for a more bulbous end. Of
> course it isn't. Interchanging will give intermittent connections and
> damage the female parts.


Do you always worry about your bulbous end
damaging the female parts?

Its a blessing, and a curse!

[RapidRonnie]

On Jun 22, 10:40 am, Clyde Slick > wrote:
> On 22 Iun, 08:56, RapidRonnie > wrote:
>
> In the US, the WE
>
> > switchboard plug is a thing that as Bret says, looks "just like" the
> > "phone plug" used for guitars, except for a more bulbous end. Of
> > course it isn't. Interchanging will give intermittent connections and
> > damage the female parts.
>
> Do you always worry about your bulbous end
> damaging the female parts?
>
> Its a blessing, and a curse!

Considering the plugs in question are 1/4" in diameter, the female
parts being damaged are of strictly "small signal" application!

So, no.