Financial Opportunity For So-Called Sibjectivists

[Arny Krueger]

http://www.tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/index.htm

"Richard Clark is an audio professional. Like many audiophiles, he
originally believed the magazines and marketing materials that different
amplifier topologies and components colored the sound in unique, clearly
audible ways. He later did experiments to quantify and qualify these
effects, and was surprised to find them inaudible when volume and other
factors were matched.
"His challenge is an offer of $10,000 of his own money to anyone who could
identify which of two amplifiers was which, by listening only, under a set
of rules that he conceived to make sure they both measure "good enough" and
are set up the same. Reports are that thousands of people have taken the
test, and none has passed the test. Nobody has been able to show an audible
difference between two amps under the test rules.

[TT]

"Soundhaspriority" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> http://www.tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/index.htm
>>
>> "Richard Clark is an audio professional. Like many audiophiles, he
>> originally believed the magazines and marketing materials that different
>> amplifier topologies and components colored the sound in unique, clearly
>> audible ways. He later did experiments to quantify and qualify these
>> effects, and was surprised to find them inaudible when volume and other
>> factors were matched.
>> "His challenge is an offer of $10,000 of his own money to anyone who
>> could identify which of two amplifiers was which, by listening only,
>> under a set of rules that he conceived to make sure they both measure
>> "good enough" and are set up the same. Reports are that thousands of
>> people have taken the test, and none has passed the test. Nobody has been
>> able to show an audible difference between two amps under the test rules.
>>
> Redacted, as usual.
>
> You left out the fact that he's charging $200 to the test taker, and has
> set the bar sufficiently high that he won't lose his money. He's as cagey
> as Ben Stein.
>
> Bob Morein
> (310) 237-6511
>
Bob I see a pattern here with Arny's self serving, selectively edited posts.

Cheers TT

[George M. Middius[_3_]]

Soundhaspriority said:

>> Bob I see a pattern here with Arny's self serving, selectively edited
>> posts.

>Redaction is a growth industry ;)

Obviously™ you're both envious of the Krooborg's "mind share". Shame
on you.

[TT]

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Soundhaspriority said:
>
>>> Bob I see a pattern here with Arny's self serving, selectively edited
>>> posts.
>
>>Redaction is a growth industry ;)
>
> ObviouslyT you're both envious of the Krooborg's "mind share". Shame
> on you.
>
I can assure you George that there is absolutely nothing in this sad
person's life I am envious of.

Cheers TT

[George M. Middius[_3_]]

TT said:

>> Obviously you're both envious of the Krooborg's "mind share". Shame
>> on you.

>I can assure you George that there is absolutely nothing in this sad
>person's life I am envious of.

I'll bet you've been skipping Mr. ****'s "training sessions", too.
With such poor study habits, how do you expect to graduate from Turd
College?

[Clyde Slick]

On 5 Apr, 21:29, "Soundhaspriority" > wrote:
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>
> . ..>http://www.tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/index.htm
>
> > "Richard Clark

>
> You left out the fact that he's charging $200 to the test taker, and has set
> the bar sufficiently high that he won't lose his money. He's as cagey as Ben
> Stein.
>


"At least" his Usenet 'career" brings in a little cash flow.
And this proves Arny's allegations that there is a sucker born any
minute,
referring, of course, to anyone willing to pay'$200
to have his eyes gouged.

[Arny Krueger]

"TT" > wrote in message
. au

> Bob I see a pattern here with Arny's self serving,
> selectively edited posts.

Right Terry, you fault me for not providing a URL for the origional article,
I then provide a URL, and now you are still whining. The pattern is
compulsive hypercritical fault-finding on your part.

[Arny Krueger]

"Soundhaspriority" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> . ..

>> http://www.tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/index.htm

> You left out the fact that he's charging $200 to the test
> taker,

It's in the text the URL points to.

"over a couple thousand people have taken the test,"

so presumably they are willing to put their money where there mouths are.

> and has set the bar sufficiently high that he
> won't lose his money.

Oh, what he asks for is mission impossible, no doubt.

People who are sincere are willing to pay.

[TT]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "TT" > wrote in message
> . au
>
>> Bob I see a pattern here with Arny's self serving,
>> selectively edited posts.
>
> Right Terry, you fault me for not providing a URL for the origional
> article, I then provide a URL, and now you are still whining. The pattern
> is compulsive hypercritical fault-finding on your part.
>
Bwaaaahahahahahahaha............ Pot - Kettle - Black Mr. Krueger!
Where's Jenn? I'm sure she will have a giggle at this too :-))

BTW I am not "fault finding" you I am pointing out that you selectively
posted an article that you believe reinforces your stated position. At best
you are just lazy and a bad scientist and at worse you are deliberately
misleading people.

I am merely putting balance back into your skewed view!

Regards TT

[TT]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
> http://www.tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/index.htm
>
> "Richard Clark is an audio professional. Like many audiophiles, he
> originally believed the magazines and marketing materials that different
> amplifier topologies and components colored the sound in unique, clearly
> audible ways. He later did experiments to quantify and qualify these
> effects, and was surprised to find them inaudible when volume and other
> factors were matched.
> "His challenge is an offer of $10,000 of his own money to anyone who could
> identify which of two amplifiers was which, by listening only, under a set
> of rules that he conceived to make sure they both measure "good enough"
> and are set up the same. Reports are that thousands of people have taken
> the test, and none has passed the test. Nobody has been able to show an
> audible difference between two amps under the test rules.
>
You "dunnit agin" Arny!!!!!

But at least you included the link this time. So I invite you to read this
little bit about the rules for the test?

"All signal processing circuitry (e.g. bass boost, filters) must be turned
off, and if the amplifier still exhibits nonlinear frequency response, an
equalizer will be set by Richard Clark and inserted inline with one of the
amps so that they both exhibit identical frequency response. The listener
can choose which amplifier gets the equalizer"

So the rules state "If any two amps have a different frequency response then
one will be made to match the other" Duh!!!! So now the test is knobbled
before it starts! So of course all the amps will sound the same *BECAUSE
THEY HAVE BEEN EQed TO BE THE SAME!" What a great little scam this is.
What a great scientist you really are Arny? Lets do tests that predetermine
the outcome eh?

So tell us all Arny why do you keep quoting articles that "enhance" your POV
and hope nobody actually takes the time to properly read them?

So please correct me if I am wrong here? So far you have said "CDs are as
good as remastered Hi-Rez discs" and I proved you wrong and then "all amps
sound the same" and again I prove wrong and all this with *your* quoted
sources!

You're on a losing streak today Arny! I bet Schopenhauer's 38th rule gets a
work out soon.

http://www.searchlores.org/schopeng.htm

Regards TT

[Arny Krueger]

"TT" > wrote in message
. au
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> http://www.tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/index.htm
>>
>> "Richard Clark is an audio professional. Like many
>> audiophiles, he originally believed the magazines and
>> marketing materials that different amplifier topologies
>> and components colored the sound in unique, clearly
>> audible ways. He later did experiments to quantify and
>> qualify these effects, and was surprised to find them
>> inaudible when volume and other factors were matched.
>> "His challenge is an offer of $10,000 of his own money
>> to anyone who could identify which of two amplifiers was
>> which, by listening only, under a set of rules that he
>> conceived to make sure they both measure "good enough"
>> and are set up the same. Reports are that thousands of
>> people have taken the test, and none has passed the
>> test. Nobody has been able to show an audible difference
>> between two amps under the test rules.

> You "dunnit agin" Arny!!!!!

Yes, I enraged the usual list of suspects.

> But at least you included the link this time. So I invite
> you to read this little bit about the rules for the test?

Why not?

> "All signal processing circuitry (e.g. bass boost,
> filters) must be turned off, and if the amplifier still
> exhibits nonlinear frequency response, an equalizer will
> be set by Richard Clark and inserted inline with one of
> the amps so that they both exhibit identical frequency
> response. The listener can choose which amplifier gets
> the equalizer"

What's wrong with that?

> So the rules state "If any two amps have a different
> frequency response then one will be made to match the
> other"

Well Terry, I guess you don't know that frequency response variations are
the leading reason why amps sound different, and that frequency response
variations are trivial to adjust out.

> Duh!!!! So now the test is knobbled before it starts!

Nope, it simply eliminates the possibility of someone skewing the test by
putting in a clearly measurable difference.

Perhaps Terry you don't know the subjectivist litany - that measurements
don't matter and that two amps that measure essentially the same can still
sound different.

> So of course all the amps will sound the same
> *BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN EQed TO BE THE SAME!"

Terry, does that mean that you think that measurements do matter and that
any two amplifiers that sound different of necessity must measure different?

[TT]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
> "TT" > wrote in message
> . au
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>> http://www.tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/index.htm
>>>
>>> "Richard Clark is an audio professional. Like many
>>> audiophiles, he originally believed the magazines and
>>> marketing materials that different amplifier topologies
>>> and components colored the sound in unique, clearly
>>> audible ways. He later did experiments to quantify and
>>> qualify these effects, and was surprised to find them
>>> inaudible when volume and other factors were matched.
>>> "His challenge is an offer of $10,000 of his own money
>>> to anyone who could identify which of two amplifiers was
>>> which, by listening only, under a set of rules that he
>>> conceived to make sure they both measure "good enough"
>>> and are set up the same. Reports are that thousands of
>>> people have taken the test, and none has passed the
>>> test. Nobody has been able to show an audible difference
>>> between two amps under the test rules.
>
>> You "dunnit agin" Arny!!!!!
>
> Yes, I enraged the usual list of suspects.
>
>> But at least you included the link this time. So I invite
>> you to read this little bit about the rules for the test?
>
> Why not?
>
>> "All signal processing circuitry (e.g. bass boost,
>> filters) must be turned off, and if the amplifier still
>> exhibits nonlinear frequency response, an equalizer will
>> be set by Richard Clark and inserted inline with one of
>> the amps so that they both exhibit identical frequency
>> response. The listener can choose which amplifier gets
>> the equalizer"
>
> What's wrong with that?
>
>> So the rules state "If any two amps have a different
>> frequency response then one will be made to match the
>> other"
>
> Well Terry, I guess you don't know that frequency response variations are
> the leading reason why amps sound different, and that frequency response
> variations are trivial to adjust out.
>
>> Duh!!!! So now the test is knobbled before it starts!
>
> Nope, it simply eliminates the possibility of someone skewing the test by
> putting in a clearly measurable difference.
>
> Perhaps Terry you don't know the subjectivist litany - that measurements
> don't matter and that two amps that measure essentially the same can still
> sound different.
>
>> So of course all the amps will sound the same
>> *BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN EQed TO BE THE SAME!"
>
> Terry, does that mean that you think that measurements do matter and that
> any two amplifiers that sound different of necessity must measure
> different?
>

I am not going to debate the side issues here with you, as you (as per
usual) are trying to deflect the scrutiny of your selective posting away
from the crux of the matter.

You have made two posts, selectively edited, to support your zealotry and
you have been exposed both times as being wrong.

Just admit you have been caught out (again) and then you can return to
squabbling with other posters here.

TT

[George M. Middius[_3_]]

TT said:

>Just admit you have been caught out (again) and then you can return to
>squabbling with other posters here.

Please note that the human word "admit" corresponds to the Krooglish
word "lie". You are thus asking the Krooborg to "lie" about its
earlier dumps.



--

"I am a liar and a hypocrite."
-- A. Krooger (1997, 1998, 2000, 2002, 2003)

[TT]

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> TT said:
>
>>Just admit you have been caught out (again) and then you can return to
>>squabbling with other posters here.
>
> Please note that the human word "admit" corresponds to the Krooglish
> word "lie". You are thus asking the Krooborg to "lie" about its
> earlier dumps.
>
Mmmmm............. I see my error here :-(

BTW George you nevva picked him on his speeling of the hedder
"Sibjectivists" :-))

Cheers TT

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Apr 5, 9:37*pm, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> People who are sincere are willing to pay.

If you are sincere in proving that you're not insane, please pay for a
MMPI and post the results.

Otherwise we'll know you're trying to cover your insanity up.

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Apr 6, 7:22*am, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> Terry, does that mean that you think that measurements do matter and that
> any two amplifiers that sound different of necessity must measure different?

The answer (again): GOIA, is you don't feel something adds value,
don't buy it. It's that simple. End of subject.

[TT]

"Soundhaspriority" > wrote in message
...
: TT,
: Isn't it nice to have "enemies" a world away? It
truely shows we are
: one culture :)
:
: Bob Morein
: (310) 237-6511
:
Probably why you Americans spent so much money developing
ICBMs :-))

Cheers TT