Why does one Neumann M49 has less high end than the other? Can I fix it?

[Jack Random]

Hi!

I've got two nearly identical Neumann M49c for testing. One is a rental one
I really like and the other one is the mic I'm considering to buy.
The one I'd like to buy sounds quiet nice but the rental M49 has much nicer
high end and about 8db more output level.
Does anybody have an explanation for that? Valve, caps, diaphragm? The
dealer just replaced the diaphragm before I picked it up...

Is the lack of high end and output level something that can be fixed? Or is
it just one of many different characters that vintage mic have?

Thanks for your input!

Steve
London, UK

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> I've got two nearly identical Neumann M49c for testing. One is a rental one
> I really like and the other one is the mic I'm considering to buy.
> The one I'd like to buy sounds quiet nice but the rental M49 has much nicer
> high end and about 8db more output level.
> Does anybody have an explanation for that?

Yeah. They aren't identical. Don't buy the one you don't like. If the
dealer said he just replaced the "diaphragm", that sounds like
trouble. Either he doesn't know that it's called a "capsule" (or you
don't, unless that's what they call it over there) and that it's
something that should be replaced by a specialist. If he has a receipt
from Neumann or one of the trusted mic repair shops that he can show
you, give the shop a call and ask what they did to it.

Maybe the dealer replaced it with a Chinese "diaphragm".

By the way, it's really smart to compare the mic with another one that
you know you like. If you had just bought it outright without hearing
another one (as some people do) you might have been satisfied and not
know what you're missing.




--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

[Steve Rhodes]

> Yeah. They aren't identical. Don't buy the one you don't like. If the
> dealer said he just replaced the "diaphragm", that sounds like
> trouble. Either he doesn't know that it's called a "capsule" (or you
> don't, unless that's what they call it over there) and that it's
> something that should be replaced by a specialist.

Well, I think he said capsule, it was my mistake, and he is very experienced
in these things. He is one of the largest second hand dealers around (Funky
Junk London).

> Maybe the dealer replaced it with a Chinese "diaphragm".
>

It's hard for me to say with what capsule he replaced it. How do I know it's
a original one anyway?

Still, the mic sounds very nice and very close to the one I like. It's just
the high end and level that's lacking. I can compensate that with my desk
and come very close. But I thought someone could point out what is causing
it in the first place.

Could it be that it needs caps replacement, tube, etc.?

thanks!

Steve

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> Still, the mic sounds very nice and very close to the one I like. It's just
> the high end and level that's lacking.

Quantify, please. How much level is lacking, and how much high end
(and at what frequency)? If you like the mic, buy it. If you're
suspicious, investigate further. You aren't looking at a matched pair
here, you're looking at two mics, almost certainly different
production runs, perhaps with different components inside, and clearly
a capsule of different age. They're different, so you can expect them
to sound different. If you're talking about 10 dB difference in output
level, something's wrong. If you're talking about 1 dB difference,
don't worry about it.

> Could it be that it needs caps replacement, tube, etc.?

Anything. That's why I suggested that you find out exactly what the
seller knows about its repair history.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

[transducr]

(Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:<znr1059222250k@trad>...
> In article > writes:
>
> > Still, the mic sounds very nice and very close to the one I like. It's just
> > the high end and level that's lacking.
>
> Quantify, please. How much level is lacking, and how much high end
> (and at what frequency)? If you like the mic, buy it. If you're
> suspicious, investigate further. You aren't looking at a matched pair
> here, you're looking at two mics, almost certainly different
> production runs, perhaps with different components inside, and clearly
> a capsule of different age. They're different, so you can expect them
> to sound different. If you're talking about 10 dB difference in output
> level, something's wrong. If you're talking about 1 dB difference,
> don't worry about it.
>
> > Could it be that it needs caps replacement, tube, etc.?
>
> Anything. That's why I suggested that you find out exactly what the
> seller knows about its repair history.

i think he said in the original post that it was around 8dB of
difference in the outputs of the two mics...

[Steve Rhodes]

We are talking about 8db in level less than the other.
And I found that if I boost 15kHz (bell) by 3-4db on an G SSL EQ (HMF x3) I
get a similar sound.

Steve
"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
news:znr1059222250k@trad...
>
> In article > writes:
>
> > Still, the mic sounds very nice and very close to the one I like. It's
just
> > the high end and level that's lacking.
>
> Quantify, please. How much level is lacking, and how much high end
> (and at what frequency)? If you like the mic, buy it. If you're
> suspicious, investigate further. You aren't looking at a matched pair
> here, you're looking at two mics, almost certainly different
> production runs, perhaps with different components inside, and clearly
> a capsule of different age. They're different, so you can expect them
> to sound different. If you're talking about 10 dB difference in output
> level, something's wrong. If you're talking about 1 dB difference,
> don't worry about it.
>
> > Could it be that it needs caps replacement, tube, etc.?
>
> Anything. That's why I suggested that you find out exactly what the
> seller knows about its repair history.
>
>
> --
> I'm really Mike Rivers - )

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> We are talking about 8db in level less than the other.

That's a significant level difference. I don't know if there are any
jumpers to select the output level/impedance (I'd expect them to be in
the power supply) in the M49, but if there are, that could explain a
difference on that order. Have you tried comparing the mics when
connected to the same power supply (not at the same time, of course)?
That might tell you whether the difference is in the microphone
assembly or the power supply.

> And I found that if I boost 15kHz (bell) by 3-4db on an G SSL EQ (HMF x3) I
> get a similar sound.

That's a substantial boost, but out where the mic's response starts to
drop off. Still, I'd be concerned.

Have you mentioned this to your dealer? What does he have to say?



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

[Steve]

(Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:<znr1059249325k@trad>...
> In article > writes:
>
> > We are talking about 8db in level less than the other.
>
> That's a significant level difference. I don't know if there are any
> jumpers to select the output level/impedance (I'd expect them to be in
> the power supply) in the M49, but if there are, that could explain a
> difference on that order. Have you tried comparing the mics when
> connected to the same power supply (not at the same time, of course)?
> That might tell you whether the difference is in the microphone
> assembly or the power supply.
>
> > And I found that if I boost 15kHz (bell) by 3-4db on an G SSL EQ (HMF x3) I
> > get a similar sound.
>
> That's a substantial boost, but out where the mic's response starts to
> drop off. Still, I'd be concerned.
>
> Have you mentioned this to your dealer? What does he have to say?

The output impeadance links are on the op transformer in the mic.
The option is 50 or 200 ohms. The 200 ohm option will give a higher
output into most modern preamps. The 50 ohm link is intended for use
with long mic cables. The responce difference could be due to the
capsule ageing . I believe the early capsules were made with pvc
diaphagms that will dry out with age causing the HF resonance to rise.
This is partly what gives vintage mics their sound. It is rare to find
two vintage mics that sound the same. It is not uncommon for rental
users to specify a particular vintage mic.
Steve Lane

[Scott Dorsey]

Jack Random > wrote:
>
>I've got two nearly identical Neumann M49c for testing. One is a rental one
>I really like and the other one is the mic I'm considering to buy.
>The one I'd like to buy sounds quiet nice but the rental M49 has much nicer
>high end and about 8db more output level.
>Does anybody have an explanation for that? Valve, caps, diaphragm? The
>dealer just replaced the diaphragm before I picked it up...

Could be it's strapped differently, but the fact that the capsule has been
rebuilt is maybe not a good sign. Who did the rebuild?

>Is the lack of high end and output level something that can be fixed? Or is
>it just one of many different characters that vintage mic have?

Maybe, but if it just got a capsule rebuild done....
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."