Acoustic guitar mic w/ Grace 101

[Adam]

I'm going to be recording some classical guitar, played on a nylon-stringed
instrument. The first time around, I used the best mic I had (Audio
Technica 4047), plugged into the best preamp I had (dbx 386 tube).
Actually, these pieces are still the best I have. :-) Anyway, the result
was nice and smooth, but dull. The 4047 doesn't have a sparkly high-end,
nor is it supposed to. After reading the reviews, etc., I've decided that I
will probably buy a Grace 101 preamp, because of its reported transparency
and accuracy. Soo... What microphone do I get? I've narrowed down my
choices to the following, none of which I've actually ever used or listened
to. In fact, I dont' have access to most of these, as my local dealers
don't stock them. Hence why I'm asking. =)

- Neumann TLM-103 (My dealer does have this one!)
- Josephson C42
- Schoeps MK4 capsule with standard phantom mic amp ($1,030 kit)
- Blue Baby Bottle
- Earthworks TC-30k matched pair
- Sanken small-diaphragm. I forget the model number.

I'm really looking for high-end, but the Schoeps is about as expensive as I
will consider. The Josephsons look really attractive, esp. for the price (a
matched set for less money than a single Schoeps)... But I know nothing
about them, other than nobody knows about them and they're supposedly pretty
good. There's always the allure of owning a Neumann, but I've come to
understand that most people consider them over-rated. The Earthworks have a
beautifully flat response, but the TC-30k is a little noisy.

Of course, I won't commit myself to a microphone based on input from others
(unless a particular mic wins by a landslide). I'll find a store with a
liberal return policy, etc.

Any favorite mics out there for nylon-stringed classical guitar? The
instrument sounds quite good, by the way.

[Stephen Boyke]

Consider first your decision to record mono (the Grace 101 is a single
channel pre). Recording in stereo can greatly enhance the recording. An
RNP would work well with classical guitar, as would a pair of Grace 101s.
Consider Millenia Media or Great River (the M2H) two channel pres also.

Regarding mics, a pair of small condensers will fit the bill. The
Josephsons are getting great reviews, although I haven't had the opportunity
to use them. I use KM184s for steel string acoustic guitar (which is close,
but still different to nylon string classical guitar). I think they're
great, particularly through a good pre (I'm using a Pendulum MDP-1A). I
also use the TLM 103 for a center channel. Contrary to many, I like the TLM
103 quite a bit for fingerstyle acoustic guitar.

Good luck

--
Stephen T. Boyke


in article , Adam at root@localhost wrote
on 7/24/03 12:12 AM:

> I'm going to be recording some classical guitar, played on a nylon-stringed
> instrument. The first time around, I used the best mic I had (Audio
> Technica 4047), plugged into the best preamp I had (dbx 386 tube).
> Actually, these pieces are still the best I have. :-) Anyway, the result
> was nice and smooth, but dull. The 4047 doesn't have a sparkly high-end,
> nor is it supposed to. After reading the reviews, etc., I've decided that I
> will probably buy a Grace 101 preamp, because of its reported transparency
> and accuracy. Soo... What microphone do I get? I've narrowed down my
> choices to the following, none of which I've actually ever used or listened
> to. In fact, I dont' have access to most of these, as my local dealers
> don't stock them. Hence why I'm asking. =)
>
> - Neumann TLM-103 (My dealer does have this one!)
> - Josephson C42
> - Schoeps MK4 capsule with standard phantom mic amp ($1,030 kit)
> - Blue Baby Bottle
> - Earthworks TC-30k matched pair
> - Sanken small-diaphragm. I forget the model number.
>
> I'm really looking for high-end, but the Schoeps is about as expensive as I
> will consider. The Josephsons look really attractive, esp. for the price (a
> matched set for less money than a single Schoeps)... But I know nothing
> about them, other than nobody knows about them and they're supposedly pretty
> good. There's always the allure of owning a Neumann, but I've come to
> understand that most people consider them over-rated. The Earthworks have a
> beautifully flat response, but the TC-30k is a little noisy.
>
> Of course, I won't commit myself to a microphone based on input from others
> (unless a particular mic wins by a landslide). I'll find a store with a
> liberal return policy, etc.
>
> Any favorite mics out there for nylon-stringed classical guitar? The
> instrument sounds quite good, by the way.
>
>

[James Boyk]

I don't know any of the mikes you're considering, but why not also
consider a ribbon, e.g. Coles 4038? True, it does require the best
possible preamp to reveal all of the mike's virtues.

James Boyk

[Kurt Albershardt]

Garthrr wrote:

> Of the mics your considering I would go with the Schoeps. Its probably going to
> give you the most detail and realism. If the guitar is a good one then that
> detail is good. If the guitar is not so hot then the stark honesty of a mic
> like a Schoeps can be less than pleasurable.

If his room is small or not particularly well proportioned, I'd
seriously consider the MK41 hypercardioid rather than the MK4 cardioid.
For about the same price you could get a Josephson Series Six, a
viable alternative to the Schoeps.

And I'll put in my usual plug for a pair of used AKG C460B's (~$500 or a
bit less) with new electronics from Jim Williams ($175 each.)

[Ty Ford]

In Article >,
(LeBaron & Alrich) wrote:
>> - Schoeps MK4 capsule with standard phantom mic amp ($1,030 kit)
>
>Rave reviews from experienced ears, but you'll need two of them. If that
>fits your budget...

A good reverb (or plugin) used tastefully with one mic can be a beautiful thing.

Regards,

Ty Ford

For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford

[Ty Ford]

In Article >, "Adam" <root@localhost> wrote:
>Wow, the response seems overwhelmingly Schoeps. A lot of recs for Great
>River pres, too. Unfortunately, I can't afford a Great River at this time,
>nor a pair of Schoeps. So, the Schoeps would be a very nice mono recording
>with a little verb for presence. I could also try my two SM-94's on my dbx
>tube preamp. ;-)

Yes, the Schoeps CMC641. I have a short .wav of one schoeps cmc641, my D28 S
Martin through an Aphex 1100 in the audio archive on my website. Have a listen.

No to the two SM-94.

Regards,

Ty Ford

For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford

[Kurt Albershardt]

Ty Ford wrote:
>
> A good reverb (or plugin) used tastefully with one mic can be a beautiful thing.

See: Thousands of classic recordings many of us love and respect.
1950's jazz, early rock, etc.

[LeBaron & Alrich]

"Adam" <root@localhost> wrote:

> Wow, the response seems overwhelmingly Schoeps. A lot of recs for Great
> River pres, too. Unfortunately, I can't afford a Great River at this time,
> nor a pair of Schoeps. So, the Schoeps would be a very nice mono recording
> with a little verb for presence. I could also try my two SM-94's on my dbx
> tube preamp. ;-)

RNP + pair of Jospehson Series 4. Stereo, very good chain. Go to work.
<g>

--
hank alrich * secret mountain
audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement
"If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose"

[Kurt Albershardt]

LeBaron & Alrich wrote:

> "Adam" <root@localhost> wrote:
>
>> Wow, the response seems overwhelmingly Schoeps. A lot of recs for Great
>> River pres, too. Unfortunately, I can't afford a Great River at this time,
>> nor a pair of Schoeps. So, the Schoeps would be a very nice mono recording
>> with a little verb for presence. I could also try my two SM-94's on my dbx
>> tube preamp. ;-)
>
>
> RNP + pair of Jospehson Series 4. Stereo, very good chain. Go to work.


Translation: If you can't make it work with this combo, you need to
take a good hard look in the mirror.

[Roger W. Norman]

Now when I said that about a 57 on a snare I got grief! <g>

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

301-585-4681




"Kurt Albershardt" > wrote in message
...
> LeBaron & Alrich wrote:
>
> > "Adam" <root@localhost> wrote:
> >
> >> Wow, the response seems overwhelmingly Schoeps. A lot of recs for
Great
> >> River pres, too. Unfortunately, I can't afford a Great River at this
time,
> >> nor a pair of Schoeps. So, the Schoeps would be a very nice mono
recording
> >> with a little verb for presence. I could also try my two SM-94's on my
dbx
> >> tube preamp. ;-)
> >
> >
> > RNP + pair of Jospehson Series 4. Stereo, very good chain. Go to work.
>
>
> Translation: If you can't make it work with this combo, you need to
> take a good hard look in the mirror.
>
>
>
>

[Adam]

I got a fantastic sound on snare drum live by using a Beta-56 (same capsule
as Beta-57), run thru a Mackie board with XDR Preamp, compressed w/ DBX
166XL. Ran the gain up until the channel was just barely peaking,
compressed, and re-gained until the channel just barely peaked again.
Sounded damn nice.

"Roger W. Norman" > wrote in message
...
> Now when I said that about a 57 on a snare I got grief! <g>
>
> --
>
>
> Roger W. Norman
> SirMusic Studio
>
> 301-585-4681
>
>
>
>
> "Kurt Albershardt" > wrote in message
> ...
> > LeBaron & Alrich wrote:
> >
> > > "Adam" <root@localhost> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Wow, the response seems overwhelmingly Schoeps. A lot of recs for
> Great
> > >> River pres, too. Unfortunately, I can't afford a Great River at this
> time,
> > >> nor a pair of Schoeps. So, the Schoeps would be a very nice mono
> recording
> > >> with a little verb for presence. I could also try my two SM-94's on
my
> dbx
> > >> tube preamp. ;-)
> > >
> > >
> > > RNP + pair of Jospehson Series 4. Stereo, very good chain. Go to work.
> >
> >
> > Translation: If you can't make it work with this combo, you need to
> > take a good hard look in the mirror.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Garthrr]

In article >, "D. Butler"
> writes:

>If you insist on Schoeps (which are WONDERFUL but overkill). we can supply
>them at a
>steep discount.

What do you mean by "overkill"? Will they make the guitar sound too good? <g>

Garth~


"I think the fact that music can come up a wire is a miracle."
Ed Cherney

[Jeff Deff]

Adam,
I've been using a pair of Josephson C42's that a friend bought. They
are outstanding. I've used them on acoustic guitar through a sytek
preamp. If you ask me that's the best bang for your buck setup.
Also, the Josephsons sound stunning on drums. You could very easily
record great drum tracks with two overheads and a kick mic and that's
it. I'm a drummer and I recorded my kit with one Josephson over my
right shoulder and was shocked at how realistic it sounded. So far
I've also tried them as a distant mic on guitar amps with great
results. They're very flexible and built to last forever. Plus, as a
bonus, the Josephson company is American and building mics in the USA
if that's something you'd like to support.

"Adam" <root@localhost> wrote in message >...
> I'm going to be recording some classical guitar, played on a nylon-stringed
> instrument. The first time around, I used the best mic I had (Audio
> Technica 4047), plugged into the best preamp I had (dbx 386 tube).
> Actually, these pieces are still the best I have. :-) Anyway, the result
> was nice and smooth, but dull. The 4047 doesn't have a sparkly high-end,
> nor is it supposed to. After reading the reviews, etc., I've decided that I
> will probably buy a Grace 101 preamp, because of its reported transparency
> and accuracy. Soo... What microphone do I get? I've narrowed down my
> choices to the following, none of which I've actually ever used or listened
> to. In fact, I dont' have access to most of these, as my local dealers
> don't stock them. Hence why I'm asking. =)
>
> - Neumann TLM-103 (My dealer does have this one!)
> - Josephson C42
> - Schoeps MK4 capsule with standard phantom mic amp ($1,030 kit)
> - Blue Baby Bottle
> - Earthworks TC-30k matched pair
> - Sanken small-diaphragm. I forget the model number.
>
> I'm really looking for high-end, but the Schoeps is about as expensive as I
> will consider. The Josephsons look really attractive, esp. for the price (a
> matched set for less money than a single Schoeps)... But I know nothing
> about them, other than nobody knows about them and they're supposedly pretty
> good. There's always the allure of owning a Neumann, but I've come to
> understand that most people consider them over-rated. The Earthworks have a
> beautifully flat response, but the TC-30k is a little noisy.
>
> Of course, I won't commit myself to a microphone based on input from others
> (unless a particular mic wins by a landslide). I'll find a store with a
> liberal return policy, etc.
>
> Any favorite mics out there for nylon-stringed classical guitar? The
> instrument sounds quite good, by the way.

[D. Butler]

I mean that for someone with a mono budget for schoeps, they wil go much further
getting into stereo...

The Schoeps are so flat, it is almost "too nice" for pop people!

;-)

and yeah, ya got me!

db

In article >,
(Garthrr) wrote:

> In article >, "D.
> Butler"
> > writes:
>
> >If you insist on Schoeps (which are WONDERFUL but overkill). we can supply
> >them at a
> >steep discount.
>
> What do you mean by "overkill"? Will they make the guitar sound too good? <g>
>
> Garth~
>
>
> "I think the fact that music can come up a wire is a miracle."
> Ed Cherney

--
David 'db' Butler, Consultant
Acoustics by db
"...all the rest are just brokers"
now on the web at http://www.db-engineering.com
Boston, Mass
Phone 617 969-0585 Fax 617 964-1590

[LeBaron & Alrich]

Garthrr > wrote:

> "D. Butler"
> > writes:

> >If you insist on Schoeps (which are WONDERFUL but overkill). we can
> >supply them at a steep discount.

> What do you mean by "overkill"? Will they make the guitar sound too good? <g>

No, he means grey market mics are cheaper...

--
ha

[Ty Ford]

In Article >,
(LeBaron & Alrich) wrote:
>Garthrr > wrote:
>
>> "D. Butler"
>> > writes:
>
>> >If you insist on Schoeps (which are WONDERFUL but overkill). we can
>> >supply them at a steep discount.
>
>> What do you mean by "overkill"? Will they make the guitar sound too good? <g>
>
>No, he means grey market mics are cheaper...


Once again El Kabong strikes with the truth....KABONG!

Regards,

Ty Ford

For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford

[D. Butler]

NYET, Kamrade!

I sell BOTH Schoeps and Neumann, as well as DPA. I can supply either US goods OR
Gray market.

What I meant was that I felt that going MONO with Schoeps vs going with lesser mics
and a stereo setup was foolish overkill.

I NEVER recommend mono miking of acoustic guitar, too much info lost, unless it is
just a filler track to be buried amongst layers of other bits.

So, KABONG back atcha!

The only think missing in THAT response was



TRUTH



;-)

db

In article >, (Ty Ford) wrote:

> In Article >,
> (LeBaron & Alrich) wrote:
> >Garthrr > wrote:
> >
> >> "D. Butler"
> >> > writes:
> >
> >> >If you insist on Schoeps (which are WONDERFUL but overkill). we can
> >> >supply them at a steep discount.
> >
> >> What do you mean by "overkill"? Will they make the guitar sound too good?
> >> <g>
> >
> >No, he means grey market mics are cheaper...
>
>
> Once again El Kabong strikes with the truth....KABONG!
>
> Regards,
>
> Ty Ford
>
> For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
> click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford
>

--
David 'db' Butler, Consultant
Acoustics by db
"...all the rest are just brokers"
now on the web at http://www.db-engineering.com
Boston, Mass
Phone 617 969-0585 Fax 617 964-1590