Increase "treble effect" in audio track?

[Madra Rua]

I have an audio track from an old movie that sounds like a hi-fi whose
treble is turned down. It was copied to the HD at 44.1 kHz, 16 bit.

How would the audio need to be processed to "turn up" the treble? The
playback rate must be exactly the same as before processing to keep it in
sync with the video

TIA

Rua

[Madra Rua]

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...
> Madra Rua > wrote:
> >I have an audio track from an old movie that sounds like a hi-fi whose
> >treble is turned down. It was copied to the HD at 44.1 kHz, 16 bit.
>
> How did it get that way? Can you go back a generation or two to where
> it sounds better?
>
> >How would the audio need to be processed to "turn up" the treble? The
> >playback rate must be exactly the same as before processing to keep it in
> >sync with the video
>
> You could equalize it, but then of course most of what you'd be increasing
> would be noise. Try it.
> --scott
>
>
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Thanks Scott.

I have been playing with a beta Audacity (1.1) and find that the sound
improves if I use a db curve that rises slowly to a peak about 5 kHz and
then drops off again with frequency. Any suggestion for a more precise
curve? With Audacity I can't see any way of storing a curve I construct. It
has a set of predefined curves for players e.g. EMI 78, Columbia LP, etc.,
which don't improve my output significantly.

TIA

Rua

[Geoff Wood]

"Madra Rua" > wrote in message
rthlink.net...
> I have an audio track from an old movie that sounds like a hi-fi whose
> treble is turned down. It was copied to the HD at 44.1 kHz, 16 bit.
>
> How would the audio need to be processed to "turn up" the treble? The
> playback rate must be exactly the same as before processing to keep it in
> sync with the video


You could just 'turn up the treble', but there may not be any there to start
with. In which case an aural exciter might be used to some effect.


geoff

[Scott Dorsey]

Madra Rua > wrote:
>
>I have been playing with a beta Audacity (1.1) and find that the sound
>improves if I use a db curve that rises slowly to a peak about 5 kHz and
>then drops off again with frequency. Any suggestion for a more precise
>curve?

No. Adjust the slope, turnover frequency, and level so that they sound
good.

Since you have no idea what happened to the original to get it to sound
that way, there's nothing you can do other than set it by ear.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Madra Rua]

"Geoff Wood" -nospam> wrote in message
...
>
> "Madra Rua" > wrote in message
> rthlink.net...
> > I have an audio track from an old movie that sounds like a hi-fi whose
> > treble is turned down. It was copied to the HD at 44.1 kHz, 16 bit.
> >
> > How would the audio need to be processed to "turn up" the treble? The
> > playback rate must be exactly the same as before processing to keep it
in
> > sync with the video
>
>
> You could just 'turn up the treble', but there may not be any there to
start
> with. In which case an aural exciter might be used to some effect.
>
>
> geoff


Thanks Geoff.

I spent the whole morning looking for a treble knob on my computer ;-)

There appears to be treble but my adjustments introduce a gurgling noise.
Still playing with it.

Rua

[Scott Dorsey]

Madra Rua > wrote:
>
>There appears to be treble but my adjustments introduce a gurgling noise.
>Still playing with it.

That noise is head switching noise from the VCR. When you increase the
high end, you increase the noise as well as the signal. Life is like
that.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Madra Rua]

Thanks Scott and Harrie.

Scott, I have not seen your post shown below and it still doesn't show up in
my newsgroup reader.

I used a sample from a silent patch in the audio track and used the fft from
that profile to denoise the complete track. I understood that the VCR noises
are removed by this process. Did I get it wrong? Then I depopped it.

I played with a parametric equalizer that has 5 bands and I now get very
acceptable clarity, except for that gurgling. Do you know the frequency
band/s corresponding to the VCR switching?

I took two frequency spectra, one with the complete track, and a second one
with a segment of about 15 mins long after the equalizer had run.

The complete track shows a few blips from -80 db to - 35 db (the peak) at
very low frequencies then oscillations continue around a steeply dropping
line to about -120 db near 3 kHz. From 3kHz out to 20 kHz all oscillations
are regular randomish and confined between about - 115 db and -150 db

After the equalizer had run, there was a change below about 5.5 kHz.. The
freqency spectrum starts about -60 db at very low freqs and drops steadily
to about 120 db near 3 kHz. Between 3 and 5 kHz, there are a few blips and
one large one up to -84 db near 5 kHz. After 6 kHz, the spectrum is similar
to the one for the complete track.

Any way to find the frequencies of the gurgles?

TIA

Rua





"Studio Froombosch" > wrote in message
...
> A trick to improve the amount of treble is to use an aural exiter or
another
> device that makes high frequnecy stuf. I smetimes use it to kill noise
from
> a recording. High cut in combination with an exiter. Sounds silly, but
> sometimes it works.
>
>
> Harrie
> www.studiofroombosch.com
>
> "Scott Dorsey" > schreef in bericht
> ...
> > Madra Rua > wrote:
> > >
> > >There appears to be treble but my adjustments introduce a gurgling
noise.
> > >Still playing with it.
> >
> > That noise is head switching noise from the VCR. When you increase the
> > high end, you increase the noise as well as the signal. Life is like
> > that.
> > --scott
> >
> > --
> > "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
>
>
>

[Jonas Eckerman]

> I played with a parametric equalizer that has 5 bands and I now get
> very acceptable clarity, except for that gurgling.

Have you compared this with what you get if yoy apply the exact same EQ to
the track before you remove the noise?

The type of noise reduction I think you used can cause sound artifacts that
could be described as gurgling. It could be those NR artifacts you bring up
when you equalize the track.

Regards
/Jonas

[Madra Rua]

"Jonas Eckerman" > wrote in message
. 1...
> > I played with a parametric equalizer that has 5 bands and I now get
> > very acceptable clarity, except for that gurgling.
>
> Have you compared this with what you get if yoy apply the exact same EQ to
> the track before you remove the noise?
>
> The type of noise reduction I think you used can cause sound artifacts
that
> could be described as gurgling. It could be those NR artifacts you bring
up
> when you equalize the track.
>
> Regards
> /Jonas

Interesting observation Jonas :-)

I applied the same Eq to the raw audio file and there was no gurgling but
much noise and pops. I then depopped, using a profile for Hiss and Crackle.
I then had noise and the gurgle.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Rua

[Scott Dorsey]

Madra Rua > wrote:
>
>I used a sample from a silent patch in the audio track and used the fft from
>that profile to denoise the complete track. I understood that the VCR noises
>are removed by this process. Did I get it wrong? Then I depopped it.

There is no magic noise removal thing. You cannot remove noise and leave
signal behind. The "denoise" gadgets can make some good guesses, but when
there is so much noise and so little signal they can only do so much.

>I played with a parametric equalizer that has 5 bands and I now get very
>acceptable clarity, except for that gurgling. Do you know the frequency
>band/s corresponding to the VCR switching?

No, it's broadband noise. You can try some noise removal stuff with a
program intended for repetitive noise, but you'll probably have to live
with it if you can't get a better copy to start with.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."