Drums question

[John Cafarella]

Hey drum gurus,

I've got a need to purchase a set of drums that are relatively quiet, but
still have good tone.
I've been told that modern kits are constructed for maximum volume and
projection. Opinions seem to vary as to whether this compromises tone or
not.

It's been suggested to me that I should look for a set of 70's series
Premier's or perhaps Rogers from this era. Is this good advice? Do you
have any other suggestions?

A different guy suggested that I may also want to try calfskin heads. Is
this a good idea? Batter head only, or both?

The drums will be used in a church worship setting.

Thanks for yer time!

[Raymond]

>John Cafarella" > wrote in message
...
>> Hey drum gurus,
>>
>> I've got a need to purchase a set of drums that are relatively quiet, but
>> still have good tone.
>> I've been told that modern kits are constructed for maximum volume and
>> projection. Opinions seem to vary as to whether this compromises tone or
>> not.

I think that this will be more of a "who's playing the drums" than what kind of
drums your using here, a good drummer knows how to play and what's appropriate
for the song being played.

[John Cafarella]

"Raymond" > wrote in message
...
> >John Cafarella" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> Hey drum gurus,
> >>
> >> I've got a need to purchase a set of drums that are relatively quiet,
but
> >> still have good tone.
> >> I've been told that modern kits are constructed for maximum volume and
> >> projection. Opinions seem to vary as to whether this compromises tone
or
> >> not.
>
> I think that this will be more of a "who's playing the drums" than what
kind of
> drums your using here, a good drummer knows how to play and what's
appropriate
> for the song being played.

Yup, no contest on the "who's playing" bit. But that's not a variable in
this particular equation though. He IS an interesting player though.
Totally untrained, and has developed his own very unique style over about 30
years. If you asked me if he's a good drummer, I'd have to say no, but what
he plays DOES fit, it a weird kind of way

The existing drums are the biggest POS you've ever seen, and they've been
damped down so much they barely sound like drums any more.
They're being replaced, and my brief is to find a kit that'll best suit the
purpose within a given budget.
--
John Cafarella
End Of the Road Studio
Melbourne, Australia

[John Cafarella]

"John L Rice" > wrote in message
...

> Modern drums should be fine and possibly better for you than '70 era sets.

More info please. Why better?

> ( stay away from Ludwig drums from that period as they often had bad
bearing
> edges ). Just get a set that has thin ply shells, try Remo Ambassador
weight
> heads ( coated or Fiberskin ), don't tune them too low and use lighter
> weight sticks.

I'm looking for a full, round tone without heaps of attack. Are calfskin
heads worth trying? Ok on the lighter weight sticks too, he mostly uses hot
rods.

>DW or Spaun would be nice but if you don't have the budget
> even one of the near entry level Tama sets should work fine.

My son has a Tama Rockstar which has way too much punch and volume. Didn't
like it AT ALL in there.

My daughter has the next set down in the range, a Swingstar, IIRC. This is
certainly closer to what I'm after as it doesn't have anything like the same
punch. It doesn't have the "roundness" of tone that I'd like though.

>Also stay with smaller diameter and thinner cymbals.
Yup.
>
> Best of luck!
>
> John L Rice
>

Thanks
--
John Cafarella
End Of the Road Studio
Melbourne, Australia

[John L Rice]

"John Cafarella" > wrote in message
...
> "John L Rice" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > Modern drums should be fine and possibly better for you than '70 era
sets.
>
> More info please. Why better?

Mainly what I mentioned below about the Ludwigs. They seemed to have a long
stretch of really bad shells in and around the seventies. ( uneven beariing
edges etc ) I remember Slingarland seemed to get really cheap in their
construction around then. Rogers drums seemed good from the '70's but that's
about when they went out of business. Pearl started getting decent near the
end of the '70's but some of their early hardware was way to flimsy and
cheap.

> > ( stay away from Ludwig drums from that period as they often had bad
> bearing
> > edges ). Just get a set that has thin ply shells, try Remo Ambassador
> weight
> > heads ( coated or Fiberskin ), don't tune them too low and use lighter
> > weight sticks.
>
> I'm looking for a full, round tone without heaps of attack. Are calfskin
> heads worth trying? Ok on the lighter weight sticks too, he mostly uses
hot
> rods.

Well, if you can find a good set of Ludwigs from the 60's or maybe early
'70's you might like them because they tended to make thier bearing edges
wider and rounder than modern drums.

Calfskin is 'almost' impossible to find these days ( I know there are still
calfskin timpami heads and I think 14" snare drum heads aimed at pro
symphonic uses but finding a drum set's worth might be tough ) Stay with
heavy weight heads, like REMO emperor and try coated or especially Fiberskin
or Renaissance ( two different REMO models ). Lyle just mentioned in
another post he saw some goat skin heads at NAMM so if they make think
enough ones you might like them.


> >DW or Spaun would be nice but if you don't have the budget
> > even one of the near entry level Tama sets should work fine.
>
> My son has a Tama Rockstar which has way too much punch and volume.
Didn't
> like it AT ALL in there.
>
> My daughter has the next set down in the range, a Swingstar, IIRC. This
is
> certainly closer to what I'm after as it doesn't have anything like the
same
> punch. It doesn't have the "roundness" of tone that I'd like though.

Just curious, was the same person playing each set and did they have the
same type and age of heads and were they tuned the same and the same sticks
used? All of those factors would affect the sound of the drums more than
the shell differences between those two sets. ( IMHO of course! ;-)

Another brand you might want to look at is Mapex. Nice looking and decent
sounding drums for a decent price.

What is your budget by the way and do you need to include cymbals?

John L Rice



> >Also stay with smaller diameter and thinner cymbals.
> Yup.
> >
> > Best of luck!
> >
> > John L Rice
> >
>
> Thanks
> --
> John Cafarella
> End Of the Road Studio
> Melbourne, Australia
>
>

[Justin Ulysses Morse]

I have an old Pearl kit from perhaps the late 60s that's made of
mahogany and has a very warm tone and is not especially loud. I think
the softer woods (with "fuzzy" surface on the inside of the shell) will
give you more tone and less volume. Like with acoustic guitars, and
electric guitar pickups, I think tone and volume sit at opposite ends
of a continuum. In the case of acoustic guitars and drums, I think the
hardness of the wood is a primary factor. Of course the size and shape
of the cavity and the thickness of the wood are too.

ulysses


In article >, John
Cafarella > wrote:

> Hey drum gurus,
>
> I've got a need to purchase a set of drums that are relatively quiet, but
> still have good tone.
> I've been told that modern kits are constructed for maximum volume and
> projection. Opinions seem to vary as to whether this compromises tone or
> not.
>
> It's been suggested to me that I should look for a set of 70's series
> Premier's or perhaps Rogers from this era. Is this good advice? Do you
> have any other suggestions?
>
> A different guy suggested that I may also want to try calfskin heads. Is
> this a good idea? Batter head only, or both?
>
> The drums will be used in a church worship setting.
>
> Thanks for yer time!
>
>
>
>

[Raymond]

>Justin Ulysses Morse wrote
>I think the
>hardness of the wood is a primary factor. Of course the size and shape
>of the cavity and the thickness of the wood are too.

The cheaper the kit/guitar the lower the grade of wood is used (just like
comparing a Gibson to an Epiphone), I had a cheap set when I was 15 years old
(1978) it was very thin shelled and looked like everyday pine wood pressboard.
They where quite shallow and not very loud, the next set I got (in 1979) was a
late 60's Ludwig 5 piece. These to where shallow but made of oak and much much
thicker but no deaper. To me they sounded tighter and faster (no ring) but
still not very loud. Then (mid 80's) I sat down behind a set of Tama Rock Star
Pro DX's, they had deap (power tom's) thick burch wood shells, even the snare
(I think it was rose wood or something strange like that) was 7" deap!!!
This set was both loud and tight, I got so used to beatting the **** out of the
other two sets I had that I just keep the thrashing going and this time
everyone else had to turn there amps up.

[John Cafarella]

"Justin Ulysses Morse" > wrote in message
...
> I have an old Pearl kit from perhaps the late 60s that's made of
> mahogany and has a very warm tone and is not especially loud. I think
> the softer woods (with "fuzzy" surface on the inside of the shell) will
> give you more tone and less volume. Like with acoustic guitars, and
> electric guitar pickups, I think tone and volume sit at opposite ends
> of a continuum. In the case of acoustic guitars and drums, I think the
> hardness of the wood is a primary factor. Of course the size and shape
> of the cavity and the thickness of the wood are too.
>
> ulysses

Thanks for this ulysses,

Any details on what model this kit is?

--
John Cafarella
End Of the Road Studio
Melbourne, Australia

[Justin Ulysses Morse]

John Cafarella > wrote:

> "Justin Ulysses Morse" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I have an old Pearl kit from perhaps the late 60s that's made of
> > mahogany and has a very warm tone and is not especially loud. I think
> > the softer woods (with "fuzzy" surface on the inside of the shell) will
> > give you more tone and less volume. Like with acoustic guitars, and
> > electric guitar pickups, I think tone and volume sit at opposite ends
> > of a continuum. In the case of acoustic guitars and drums, I think the
> > hardness of the wood is a primary factor. Of course the size and shape
> > of the cavity and the thickness of the wood are too.
> >
> > ulysses
>
> Thanks for this ulysses,
>
> Any details on what model this kit is?


I have no idea. Idunno if it even has a name. It's old and blue and
it's made out of mahogany. The Pearl logo is plastic with chrome or
maybe gold plating on it. It's got a 20" kick, 14" snare, and I think
the toms are 14 and 17. Oh, and I'm thinking about selling it.

You can see part of the kick drum at
http://www.rollmusic.com/equipment/index.shtml

ulysses

[John Cafarella]

"Justin Ulysses Morse" > wrote in message
news:300720031726512416%>
>
> I have no idea. Idunno if it even has a name. It's old and blue and
> it's made out of mahogany. The Pearl logo is plastic with chrome or
> maybe gold plating on it. It's got a 20" kick, 14" snare, and I think
> the toms are 14 and 17. Oh, and I'm thinking about selling it.
>
> You can see part of the kick drum at
> http://www.rollmusic.com/equipment/index.shtml
>
> ulysses

Can you fold it up, put it in a shoebox and mail it to me? :-)
--
John Cafarella
End Of the Road Studio
Melbourne, Australia