Martin Logan opinions

[WindsorFox-{SS}-]

I'm looking for opinions, thoughts, comments on the ReQuest vs the
Prodigy.


--
"Yah know I hate it when forces gather in ma' fringe..." - Sheogorath

"Daytime television sucked 20 years ago,
and it still sucks today!" - Marc Bissonette

[[email protected]]

On Jan 18, 3:34�pm, Bret Ludwig > wrote:
> On Jan 18, 5:22 pm, WindsorFox-{SS}- > wrote:
>
> > � � I'm looking for opinions, thoughts, comments on the ReQuest vs the
> > Prodigy.
>
> �I don't think ML makes a particularly great electrostat anymore. If
> you really want stats, consider some of the better kit projects.

The current ML Summit is an outstanding loudspeaker in every
conceivable way.

Boon

[George M. Middius]

MiNe 109 said:

> > The current ML Summit is an outstanding loudspeaker in every
> > conceivable way.
>
> Lord, yes.

Is the "Martin" part of that company by any chance Jewish?

[WindsorFox-{SS}-]

Bret Ludwig wrote:
> On Jan 18, 5:22 pm, WindsorFox-{SS}- > wrote:
>> I'm looking for opinions, thoughts, comments on the ReQuest vs the
>> Prodigy.
>>
>
> I don't think ML makes a particularly great electrostat anymore. If
> you really want stats, consider some of the better kit projects.

Which is why I have been advised I'd be far better spending $5K on a
set of Prodigys rather than an new pair of Vantage. So far I am in the
listening and thinking stange.

--
"Yah know I hate it when forces gather in ma' fringe..." - Sheogorath

"Daytime television sucked 20 years ago,
and it still sucks today!" - Marc Bissonette

[WindsorFox-{SS}-]

wrote:
> On Jan 18, 3:34�pm, Bret Ludwig > wrote:
>> On Jan 18, 5:22 pm, WindsorFox-{SS}- > wrote:
>>
>>> � � I'm looking for opinions, thoughts, comments on the ReQuest vs the
>>> Prodigy.
>> �I don't think ML makes a particularly great electrostat anymore. If
>> you really want stats, consider some of the better kit projects.
>
> The current ML Summit is an outstanding loudspeaker in every
> conceivable way.
>
> Boon

But seems to lack a good bit compared to older models.

--
"Yah know I hate it when forces gather in ma' fringe..." - Sheogorath

"Daytime television sucked 20 years ago,
and it still sucks today!" - Marc Bissonette

[[email protected]]

On Jan 19, 10:31Â*am, WindsorFox-{SS}- >
wrote:
> wrote:
> > On Jan 18, 3:34�pm, Bret Ludwig > wrote:
> >> On Jan 18, 5:22 pm, WindsorFox-{SS}- > wrote:
>
> >>> � � I'm looking for opinions, thoughts, comments on the ReQuest vs the
> >>> Prodigy.
> >> �I don't think ML makes a particularly great electrostat anymore. If
> >> you really want stats, consider some of the better kit projects.
>
> > The current ML Summit is an outstanding loudspeaker in every
> > conceivable way.
>
> > Boon
>
> Â* Â*But seems to lack a good bit compared to older models.

How? I've heard a variety of MLs over the years. The Vantage and the
Summit are by far the best I've heard, and I've even heard the
Statements. In fact, the $10,000 Summits replaced the $85,000
Statements as the flagship of the ML line.

I have access to the Summits and get to hear them 2-3 times per week
since we own a pair at the magazine. So I can probably bring a bit
more to the table than "lack a good bit."

Boon

[[email protected]]

On Jan 19, 10:30�am, WindsorFox-{SS}- >
wrote:
> Bret Ludwig wrote:
> > On Jan 18, 5:22 pm, WindsorFox-{SS}- > wrote:
> >> � � I'm looking for opinions, thoughts, comments on the ReQuest vs the
> >> Prodigy.
>
> > �I don't think ML makes a particularly great electrostat anymore.. If
> > you really want stats, consider some of the better kit projects.
>
> � �Which is why I have been advised I'd be far better spending $5K on a
> set of Prodigys rather than an new pair of Vantage. So far I am in the
> listening and thinking stange.

A used $5000 set of Prodigys is a better deal than a new $5000 set of
Vantages, no doubt. But not by as much as you think.

Boon

[WindsorFox-{SS}-]

MiNe 109 wrote:
> In article >,
> WindsorFox-{SS}- > wrote:
>
>> wrote:
>>> On Jan 18, 3:34?pm, Bret Ludwig > wrote:
>>>> On Jan 18, 5:22 pm, WindsorFox-{SS}- > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ? ? I'm looking for opinions, thoughts, comments on the ReQuest vs the
>>>>> Prodigy.
>>>> ?I don't think ML makes a particularly great electrostat anymore. If
>>>> you really want stats, consider some of the better kit projects.
>>> The current ML Summit is an outstanding loudspeaker in every
>>> conceivable way.
>
>> But seems to lack a good bit compared to older models.
>
> What do you think is missing?
>
> Stephen

It just does not have the same sound or sound stage. The newest ones
have more frequency response, but they don't have the soul.

--
"Yah know I hate it when forces gather in ma' fringe..." - Sheogorath

"Daytime television sucked 20 years ago,
and it still sucks today!" - Marc Bissonette

[WindsorFox-{SS}-]

wrote:
> On Jan 19, 10:30�am, WindsorFox-{SS}- >
> wrote:
>> Bret Ludwig wrote:
>>> On Jan 18, 5:22 pm, WindsorFox-{SS}- > wrote:
>>>> � � I'm looking for opinions, thoughts, comments on the ReQuest vs the
>>>> Prodigy.
>>> �I don't think ML makes a particularly great electrostat anymore. If
>>> you really want stats, consider some of the better kit projects.
>> � �Which is why I have been advised I'd be far better spending $5K on a
>> set of Prodigys rather than an new pair of Vantage. So far I am in the
>> listening and thinking stange.
>
> A used $5000 set of Prodigys is a better deal than a new $5000 set of
> Vantages, no doubt. But not by as much as you think.
>
> Boon

Explain? That's why I asked....

--
"Yah know I hate it when forces gather in ma' fringe..." - Sheogorath

"Daytime television sucked 20 years ago,
and it still sucks today!" - Marc Bissonette

[WindsorFox-{SS}-]

MiNe 109 wrote:
> In article >,
> WindsorFox-{SS}- > wrote:
>
>> MiNe 109 wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> WindsorFox-{SS}- > wrote:
>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Jan 18, 3:34?pm, Bret Ludwig > wrote:
>>>>>> On Jan 18, 5:22 pm, WindsorFox-{SS}- > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ? ? I'm looking for opinions, thoughts, comments on the ReQuest vs the
>>>>>>> Prodigy.
>>>>>> ?I don't think ML makes a particularly great electrostat anymore. If
>>>>>> you really want stats, consider some of the better kit projects.
>>>>> The current ML Summit is an outstanding loudspeaker in every
>>>>> conceivable way.
>>>> But seems to lack a good bit compared to older models.
>>> What do you think is missing?
>
>> It just does not have the same sound or sound stage. The newest ones
>> have more frequency response, but they don't have the soul.
>
> IMO, as good as the older models are, the newest models are the first
> time ML has truly succeeded in integrating dynamic bass drivers with
> electrostatics.
>
> I've only heard the Vantages in a home-theater system, but they sound
> very good. It's been too long since I heard the two you're interested
> in, but the reviews of the Prodigy seem more attractive to me.
>
> Stephen

Yes me too, it's just that I've found the Prodigy at a best price of
$4200 and the ReQuest and $1800. And without being able to go listen to
each let alone compare them in the same room with the same equipment I'm
soliciting thoughts from those who have done so in the past. I guess no
one has or those who did aren't reading this thread.

--
"Yah know I hate it when forces gather in ma' fringe..." - Sheogorath

"Daytime television sucked 20 years ago,
and it still sucks today!" - Marc Bissonette

[Jenn]

In article
>,
wrote:

> On Jan 19, 10:31Â*am, WindsorFox-{SS}- >
> wrote:
> > wrote:
> > > On Jan 18, 3:34?pm, Bret Ludwig > wrote:
> > >> On Jan 18, 5:22 pm, WindsorFox-{SS}- > wrote:
> >
> > >>> ? ? I'm looking for opinions, thoughts, comments on the ReQuest vs the
> > >>> Prodigy.
> > >> ?I don't think ML makes a particularly great electrostat anymore. If
> > >> you really want stats, consider some of the better kit projects.
> >
> > > The current ML Summit is an outstanding loudspeaker in every
> > > conceivable way.
> >
> > > Boon
> >
> > Â* Â*But seems to lack a good bit compared to older models.
>
> How? I've heard a variety of MLs over the years. The Vantage and the
> Summit are by far the best I've heard, and I've even heard the
> Statements. In fact, the $10,000 Summits replaced the $85,000
> Statements as the flagship of the ML line.
>
> I have access to the Summits and get to hear them 2-3 times per week
> since we own a pair at the magazine. So I can probably bring a bit
> more to the table than "lack a good bit."
>
> Boon

I had the Sequel IIs in the early 90s. Loved them.

[George M. Middius]

Jenn said:

> I had the Sequel IIs in the early 90s. Loved them.

Are you caliming that Arnii Krooger didn't know that? As usually, Jennn
you're full of yourself and, Jnen not a shred of proof to prove what you
tried to make Arnii lie, about Jen.

[Jenn]

In article >,
George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote:

> Jenn said:
>
> > I had the Sequel IIs in the early 90s. Loved them.
>
> Are you caliming that Arnii Krooger didn't know that? As usually, Jennn
> you're full of yourself and, Jnen not a shred of proof to prove what you
> tried to make Arnii lie, about Jen.

Sorry, I can't read this. I have vision loss to go along with my
hearing loss.

[WindsorFox-{SS}-]

MiNe 109 wrote:
> In article >,
> WindsorFox-{SS}- > wrote:
>
> Stephen:
>>> I've only heard the Vantages in a home-theater system, but they sound
>>> very good. It's been too long since I heard the two you're interested
>>> in, but the reviews of the Prodigy seem more attractive to me.
>
>> Yes me too, it's just that I've found the Prodigy at a best price of
>> $4200 and the ReQuest and $1800. And without being able to go listen to
>> each let alone compare them in the same room with the same equipment I'm
>> soliciting thoughts from those who have done so in the past. I guess no
>> one has or those who did aren't reading this thread.
>
> Too bad about that. If I were looking for an instant good-but-cheap
> system, I'd try out these powered MLs:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/MartinLogan-Purity-Fully-Powered-Electrostatic-Loud
> speaker/dp/B000XSDHIQ
>
> Free shipping! And amazon customers seem to like them as substitute
> fronts in Polk home theater systems. :-)
>
> Stephen

At $3000 that is almost the same price as the used Prodigy's and
those would have a harder time filling up my room.

--
"Yah know I hate it when forces gather in ma' fringe..." - Sheogorath

"Daytime television sucked 20 years ago,
and it still sucks today!" - Marc Bissonette

[[email protected]]

On Jan 19, 6:49Â*pm, WindsorFox-{SS}- > wrote:
> wrote:
> > On Jan 19, 10:30�am, WindsorFox-{SS}- >
> > wrote:
> >> Bret Ludwig wrote:
> >>> On Jan 18, 5:22 pm, WindsorFox-{SS}- > wrote:
> >>>> � � I'm looking for opinions, thoughts, comments on the ReQuest vs the
> >>>> Prodigy.
> >>> �I don't think ML makes a particularly great electrostat anymore. If
> >>> you really want stats, consider some of the better kit projects.
> >> � �Which is why I have been advised I'd be far better spending $5K on a
> >> set of Prodigys rather than an new pair of Vantage. So far I am in the
> >> listening and thinking stange.
>
> > A used $5000 set of Prodigys is a better deal than a new $5000 set of
> > Vantages, no doubt. But not by as much as you think.
>
> > Boon
>
> Â* Â*Explain? That's why I asked....
>
> --
> "Yah know I hate it when forces gather in ma' fringe..." - Sheogorath
>
> "Daytime television sucked 20 years ago,
> Â* Â* and it still sucks today!" Â*- Â* Marc Bissonette- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Well, this has drifted away from your original question. My objection
is to Bret Ludwig's assertion that Martin-Logans aren't as good as
they used to be. My comments are derived from the fact that I've
listened to many MLs over the years, and I was never a huge fan until
I heard the latest 2 models, the Vantage and the Summit. I'd have to
agree with Stephen that ML has been dealing with the integration
problem between the panels and the woofers for some years (which is
why the original CLS is perhaps my favorite ML of all time, and I'm
looking forward to the new one). They've finally eliminated the issue
completely.

I do have a friend with the ReQuests (anyone remember Sandman?), and
they are fine speakers. But they didn't have the limitless dynamics
and soundstage that the Summits have, nor the deep bass performance.
The Summits, in my opinion, are among the finest $10K speakers out
there. With the Descent subwoofer, they're even better. My only
reservation is that they still don't disappear completely, like most
panel speakers.

Boon

[[email protected]]

Will Ulmer---The only thing filling up your room, as well as your
mouth, are a bunch of hard legs looking to cornhole a Coon Ass
inbred. You yanks know what your dealing with here? This bloke is a
supreme Internet Troll and a ugly **** at that!

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.****nozzles/msg/6148891c4c328d1f



WindsorFox-{SS}- wrote:
> MiNe 109 wrote:
> > In article >,
> > WindsorFox-{SS}- > wrote:
> >
> > Stephen:
> >>> I've only heard the Vantages in a home-theater system, but they sound
> >>> very good. It's been too long since I heard the two you're interested
> >>> in, but the reviews of the Prodigy seem more attractive to me.
> >
> >> Yes me too, it's just that I've found the Prodigy at a best price of
> >> $4200 and the ReQuest and $1800. And without being able to go listen to
> >> each let alone compare them in the same room with the same equipment I'm
> >> soliciting thoughts from those who have done so in the past. I guess no
> >> one has or those who did aren't reading this thread.
> >
> > Too bad about that. If I were looking for an instant good-but-cheap
> > system, I'd try out these powered MLs:
> >
> > http://www.amazon.com/MartinLogan-Purity-Fully-Powered-Electrostatic-Loud
> > speaker/dp/B000XSDHIQ
> >
> > Free shipping! And amazon customers seem to like them as substitute
> > fronts in Polk home theater systems. :-)
> >
> > Stephen
>
> At $3000 that is almost the same price as the used Prodigy's and
> those would have a harder time filling up my room.
>
> --
> "Yah know I hate it when forces gather in ma' fringe..." - Sheogorath
>
> "Daytime television sucked 20 years ago,
> and it still sucks today!" - Marc Bissonette

[WindsorFox[_3_]]

wrote:
> Will Ulmer---The only thing filling up your room, as well as your
> mouth, are a bunch of hard legs looking to cornhole a Coon Ass
> inbred. You yanks know what your dealing with here? This bloke is a
> supreme Internet Troll and a ugly **** at that!
>


Your mom Mikey. FOAD

--
"Yah know I hate it when forces gather in ma' fringe..." - Sheogorath

"Daytime television sucked 20 years ago,
and it still sucks today!" - Marc Bissonette

[WindsorFox-{SS}-]

MiNe 109 wrote:
> In article >,
> WindsorFox-{SS}- > wrote:
>
>> MiNe 109 wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> WindsorFox-{SS}- > wrote:
>>>
>>> Stephen:
>>>>> I've only heard the Vantages in a home-theater system, but they sound
>>>>> very good. It's been too long since I heard the two you're interested
>>>>> in, but the reviews of the Prodigy seem more attractive to me.
>>>> Yes me too, it's just that I've found the Prodigy at a best price of
>>>> $4200 and the ReQuest and $1800. And without being able to go listen to
>>>> each let alone compare them in the same room with the same equipment I'm
>>>> soliciting thoughts from those who have done so in the past. I guess no
>>>> one has or those who did aren't reading this thread.
>>> Too bad about that. If I were looking for an instant good-but-cheap
>>> system, I'd try out these powered MLs:
>>>
>>> http://www.amazon.com/MartinLogan-Purity-Fully-Powered-Electrostatic-Loud
>>> speaker/dp/B000XSDHIQ
>>>
>>> Free shipping! And amazon customers seem to like them as substitute
>>> fronts in Polk home theater systems. :-)
>
>> At $3000 that is almost the same price as the used Prodigy's and
>> those would have a harder time filling up my room.
>
> Sorry! Missed the quantity indication that doubles the price.
>
> Stephen

Yeah I took a double take as well. At first glance I though Holy
crap. I also remembered the "Warning" on ML web site so I called to ask
about the online sales and got a long winded explanation. The short
version is that Amazon as of a holiday promo is authorized to sell that
speaker which I believe is the bottom of their line. He also mentioned
"University Audio" that has authorization to sell discontinued products
online, I assume through Amazon since their direct web site is a bit
lacking.

--
"Yah know I hate it when forces gather in ma' fringe..." - Sheogorath

"Daytime television sucked 20 years ago,
and it still sucks today!" - Marc Bissonette

[WindsorFox-{SS}-]

wrote:
> On Jan 19, 6:49 pm, WindsorFox-{SS}- > wrote:
>> wrote:
>>> On Jan 19, 10:30�am, WindsorFox-{SS}- >
>>> wrote:
>>>> Bret Ludwig wrote:
>>>>> On Jan 18, 5:22 pm, WindsorFox-{SS}- > wrote:
>>>>>> � � I'm looking for opinions, thoughts, comments on the ReQuest vs the
>>>>>> Prodigy.
>>>>> �I don't think ML makes a particularly great electrostat anymore. If
>>>>> you really want stats, consider some of the better kit projects.
>>>> � �Which is why I have been advised I'd be far better spending $5K on a
>>>> set of Prodigys rather than an new pair of Vantage. So far I am in the
>>>> listening and thinking stange.
>>> A used $5000 set of Prodigys is a better deal than a new $5000 set of
>>> Vantages, no doubt. But not by as much as you think.
>>> Boon
>> Explain? That's why I asked....
>>
>> --
>> "Yah know I hate it when forces gather in ma' fringe..." - Sheogorath
>>
>> "Daytime television sucked 20 years ago,
>> and it still sucks today!" - Marc Bissonette- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Well, this has drifted away from your original question. My objection
> is to Bret Ludwig's assertion that Martin-Logans aren't as good as
> they used to be.

No this is really part one of where I was going. There are quite a
few people who believe exactly what he said hence why the local guy I
know said I would be far better off with a set of used Prodigy's or
ReQust's instead of a new pair of Vantage and Summit in his opinion
regardless of the price considerations. This guy has a set of CLS panels
which you could never pry from him.

> My comments are derived from the fact that I've
> listened to many MLs over the years, and I was never a huge fan until
> I heard the latest 2 models, the Vantage and the Summit. I'd have to
> agree with Stephen that ML has been dealing with the integration
> problem between the panels and the woofers for some years (which is
> why the original CLS is perhaps my favorite ML of all time, and I'm
> looking forward to the new one). They've finally eliminated the issue
> completely.

I listened to the Vantage and Summit and then to these CLS panels
with a set of Crown subs, and I liked the latter much better. He says
that having listened to all of the offerings over the years that If I
like his better then I would prefer the Prodigy over the Vantage or
Summit. Truth be told I *might* not be able to tell the difference if
blind folded.

>
> I do have a friend with the ReQuests (anyone remember Sandman?), and
> they are fine speakers. But they didn't have the limitless dynamics
> and soundstage that the Summits have, nor the deep bass performance.
> The Summits, in my opinion, are among the finest $10K speakers out
> there. With the Descent subwoofer, they're even better. My only
> reservation is that they still don't disappear completely, like most
> panel speakers.
>
> Boon

And this paragraph tells me that it's most likely that the bass
response of the ReQuest may be lacking in comparison to the Prodigy. I
just have to wonder if I gopher the ReQuest will I wish I had spent more
and gotten the Prodigy.


--
"Yah know I hate it when forces gather in ma' fringe..." - Sheogorath

"Daytime television sucked 20 years ago,
and it still sucks today!" - Marc Bissonette