DAD: Tina's Mazda needs help..........

[MOSFET]

Dad,

I could use your expertise. We were having trouble with Tina's Mazda MX6
with the engine just dying out of the blue and then sometimes just starting
right back up again. Anyway, in the process of trying to charge the battery
(we thought the battery might be low because of bad connections which we
though could explain the symptoms) we ran the car out of gas here in the
driveway.

So I bought four gallons of gas (two 2 gallon cans of gas) to be sure it
wasn't at a funny angle where it wasn't getting gas. I replaced ALL spark
plugs, checked all fluids and inspected the air filter which seems fine. I
don't exactly know where the fuel filter is (to inspect or change) which
might solve ALL problems.

But the biggest problem NOW is that the car won't start. We will charge
it's battery for hours and the starter sounds fine/strong and the battery
seems strong too, but no ignitition (we have tried at least six different
times). We would take it to a place (like American Car Care in Stanwood) if
we could just start the damn engine, which ALWAYS started (sometimes with
the help of a jump) before.

So I would REALLY appreciate it if you could come over when you have a
little spare time and just take a look at it. I would like to change the
fuel filter just so I could eleiminate that as a possible cause of the
trouble. I can buy one today and perhaps you could help me put it in OR
perhaps you will see an entirely different problem I missed. Again, you
have much more expertise at this than I do and I feel like I have done
everything I know how to do. We would REALLY like to get that car running
as the cost of gas is killing us with trips to work (about $15 for every
round trip to Best Buy, I KID YOU NOT, it's that damn all-wheel-drive).

Anyway, let me know if you could take a look. I feel like this could be a
good running car (when it was running, it ran very well) if we could just
solve this problem.

Thank you,

Nick

[Christopher \Torroid\ Ott]

"MOSFET" > wrote in message
...
> Dad,
>
> I could use your expertise. We were having trouble with Tina's Mazda MX6
> with the engine just dying out of the blue and then sometimes just
> starting right back up again. Anyway, in the process of trying to charge
> the battery (we thought the battery might be low because of bad
> connections which we though could explain the symptoms) we ran the car out
> of gas here in the driveway.
>
> So I bought four gallons of gas (two 2 gallon cans of gas) to be sure it
> wasn't at a funny angle where it wasn't getting gas. I replaced ALL spark
> plugs, checked all fluids and inspected the air filter which seems fine.
> I don't exactly know where the fuel filter is (to inspect or change) which
> might solve ALL problems.
>
> But the biggest problem NOW is that the car won't start. We will charge
> it's battery for hours and the starter sounds fine/strong and the battery
> seems strong too, but no ignitition (we have tried at least six different
> times). We would take it to a place (like American Car Care in Stanwood)
> if we could just start the damn engine, which ALWAYS started (sometimes
> with the help of a jump) before.
>
> So I would REALLY appreciate it if you could come over when you have a
> little spare time and just take a look at it. I would like to change the
> fuel filter just so I could eleiminate that as a possible cause of the
> trouble. I can buy one today and perhaps you could help me put it in OR
> perhaps you will see an entirely different problem I missed. Again, you
> have much more expertise at this than I do and I feel like I have done
> everything I know how to do. We would REALLY like to get that car running
> as the cost of gas is killing us with trips to work (about $15 for every
> round trip to Best Buy, I KID YOU NOT, it's that damn all-wheel-drive).
>
> Anyway, let me know if you could take a look. I feel like this could be a
> good running car (when it was running, it ran very well) if we could just
> solve this problem.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Nick

The most telling thing here is that you ran the car out of gas. That
instantly points to fuel (or lack of) as the problem. Are you sure the fuel
pump is still running? It may have seized up after being run dry. It (or the
fuel filter) may be clogged with rust which normally stays in the bottom of
the tank. How about the fuse or fusible link for the fuel pump? Running the
pump dry may have blown the fuse. Fuel filter is definitely a possibility.

Chris

[Matt Ion]

Christopher "Torroid" Ott wrote:
> "MOSFET" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Dad,
>>
>> I could use your expertise. We were having trouble with Tina's Mazda MX6
>> with the engine just dying out of the blue and then sometimes just
>> starting right back up again. Anyway, in the process of trying to charge
>> the battery (we thought the battery might be low because of bad
>> connections which we though could explain the symptoms) we ran the car out
>> of gas here in the driveway.
>>
>> So I bought four gallons of gas (two 2 gallon cans of gas) to be sure it
>> wasn't at a funny angle where it wasn't getting gas. I replaced ALL spark
>> plugs, checked all fluids and inspected the air filter which seems fine.
>> I don't exactly know where the fuel filter is (to inspect or change) which
>> might solve ALL problems.
>>
>> But the biggest problem NOW is that the car won't start. We will charge
>> it's battery for hours and the starter sounds fine/strong and the battery
>> seems strong too, but no ignitition (we have tried at least six different
>> times). We would take it to a place (like American Car Care in Stanwood)
>> if we could just start the damn engine, which ALWAYS started (sometimes
>> with the help of a jump) before.
>>
>> So I would REALLY appreciate it if you could come over when you have a
>> little spare time and just take a look at it. I would like to change the
>> fuel filter just so I could eleiminate that as a possible cause of the
>> trouble. I can buy one today and perhaps you could help me put it in OR
>> perhaps you will see an entirely different problem I missed. Again, you
>> have much more expertise at this than I do and I feel like I have done
>> everything I know how to do. We would REALLY like to get that car running
>> as the cost of gas is killing us with trips to work (about $15 for every
>> round trip to Best Buy, I KID YOU NOT, it's that damn all-wheel-drive).
>>
>> Anyway, let me know if you could take a look. I feel like this could be a
>> good running car (when it was running, it ran very well) if we could just
>> solve this problem.
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Nick
>
> The most telling thing here is that you ran the car out of gas. That
> instantly points to fuel (or lack of) as the problem. Are you sure the fuel
> pump is still running? It may have seized up after being run dry. It (or the
> fuel filter) may be clogged with rust which normally stays in the bottom of
> the tank. How about the fuse or fusible link for the fuel pump? Running the
> pump dry may have blown the fuse. Fuel filter is definitely a possibility.

I'm not Dad, but I'd bet on the fuel filter as well - having it clog up
after running the tank dry is common to almost every make and model of
car ever made.

Usually you'll have two filters - a coarse one in the tank where the
fuel pickup is, and a fine one under the hood just before the pressure
regulator. Either one could be clogged with tank crud.

In most cars you should be able to hear the fuel pump spin up - it will
usually fire briefly when you first turn the key to the Ignition
position, then shut off until the car is actually running. If it
doesn't spin up, check the fuse... but my money is on a clogged filter.

[MOSFET]

Obviously this post was inteaded for my dad, not the group. I'm sorry and
embarrased, as usual (this is AT LEAST the fourth time I've done this over
the years). Where's Howdy when you need him to mock me further for my
innept computer skills? ;)

In fact, it's amusing to me that the screw-up generates posts from the
old-timers like Matt and Christopher, but my first post ASKING YOU GUYS TO
GIVE ME A SHOUT BACK goes unanswered. Oh, well.

Good to know you guys are still around!!! Take care and HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!

Nick

[dreamer man]

new filter ftw


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[Matt Ion]

MOSFET wrote:
> Obviously this post was inteaded for my dad, not the group. I'm sorry and
> embarrased, as usual (this is AT LEAST the fourth time I've done this over
> the years).

I just figured you'd pasted a copy of the email here to solicit other
advice... wasn't really sure WHY it would be here rather than
rec.autos.makers.mazda or something more appropriate, but what the hey...

> Where's Howdy when you need him to mock me further for my
> innept computer skills? ;)

Now that you've spoken his name, I'm sure he'll appear.

> In fact, it's amusing to me that the screw-up generates posts from the
> old-timers like Matt and Christopher, but my first post ASKING YOU GUYS TO
> GIVE ME A SHOUT BACK goes unanswered. Oh, well.

I don't remember seeing that post. Probably got lost in the sporge.

> Good to know you guys are still around!!! Take care and HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!

Backatcha. Any luck with the car?

[MOSFET]

> Backatcha. Any luck with the car?

This was the first message about changes to my car audio system:

Anyway, as far as what's new with my system, there's quite a bit (I HAVE NOT
LOST THE BUG!!!!). As promised, I finally upgraded to a Class D amp to
drive my pair of 12" MTX MXS's (same as 7500 series, just silver instead of
black). I bought a new Alpine MRP-M850. Connected in parallel, each sub
gets 400 watts which seems to be just PERFECT (more than the previous amp
that was driving them, a Soundstream Ref. 700 that I sold). Everything they
say about Classs D is true. The increase in bass output is VERY noticeable
yet the amp stays cool and my voltage doesn't drop like a stone when I
really punch it.

Also, I replaced my head unit. The white touch strip on my Alpine 9853
started acting really screwy, like it had a mind of it's own. I took the
unit apart and cleaned the inside thoroughly (as I have often done in the
past with my Alpine's) but the problem persisted. It was like someone was
ALWAYS touching the strip and made operating the thing almost impossible,
and certainly annoying as hell. I suppose there's a lesson there. Never be
the first person to try a new technology. I noticed none of Alpine's
current line-up include the touch-strip. So although I COULD have ordered a
new faceplate, I decided I didn't want to just have the problem again in six
months so I bought a new '07 model Alpine, the Alpine 9885 which I have been
VERY happy with. Although I do not have Bass Engine Pro, I DO have bass and
treble controls again (yeh!) and it does have high and low pass x-overs (all
my amps have x-overs as well). Also, I use a 7 band Clarion EQ so I really
don't miss the features Bass Engine Pro possessed.

I have a Sansa 8 gig MP3 player and my next purchase will be the Alpine
KCA-620M which is a USB adaptor. It will tie my Sansa into my Alpine so
that the Sansa controls can be operated from the Alpine, it will also power
the Sansa because it is a USB2 input (and that's how the rechargeable
battery gets it's power), and the song titles will display on the Alpine's
bio-lite display. I'm looking forward to this because I ALREADY have my
Sansa tied into my Alpine the traditional way (with an 1/8" stereo plug from
the headphone jack to RCA right and left that goes into my Alpine via an
adaptor), and I find I use that (the Sansa MP3 player) more than ANY other
source (like burning discs or the radio). Alpine promises that this will
interface with ANY non-iPod MP3 player (for an iPod, there are other
adaptors you must buy).

Anyway, I love the new Alpine, and glad to be rid of that damn touch strip.
BTW, on this unit you can change the famous Alpine "crystals" to red, a
color I have never seen before (green isn't even an option on this unit, so
much for remembering the past).

Anyway, besides those changes, everything else is the same (all the speakers
for instance) and working perfectly. For a non-updated (it still shows my
Soundstream driving my subs for instance) look at my system at:

MOSFET

[Matt Ion]

MOSFET wrote:
>> Backatcha. Any luck with the car?
>
> This was the first message about changes to my car audio system:

Yeah, I found that and replied to it.

I was talking about "Tina's Mazda". :D

[MOSFET]

No, no luck with the wife's car. My dad tried sprying starter fluid in the
air intake but no go. The funny thing is that we ran it out of gas to
charge the battery and it ideled smoothly for TWO HOURS!!!! Yet we can not
start it no matter what we try. Like they always say, you don't want to run
a fuel injected car out of gas, but clearly something was damaged when it
ran out of gas as it should start eventually.

So it's towing time next as I have replaced all filters, spark plugs, and
fluid levels. The starter sounds strong yet when I turn the key initially,
I don't hear the fuel pump (before I turn it over) like I usually do in
other cars. I am begginging to wonder if the fuel pump is shot. I hope not
as it's located IN THE FUEL TANK.

But the problem is definately beyond my and my father's rudamentary skills.

Nick

"Matt Ion" > wrote in message
news:0P0fj.62928$DP1.28827@pd7urf2no...
> MOSFET wrote:
>>> Backatcha. Any luck with the car?
>>
>> This was the first message about changes to my car audio system:
>
> Yeah, I found that and replied to it.
>
> I was talking about "Tina's Mazda". :D

[Matt Ion]

MOSFET wrote:
> No, no luck with the wife's car. My dad tried sprying starter fluid in the
> air intake but no go. The funny thing is that we ran it out of gas to
> charge the battery and it ideled smoothly for TWO HOURS!!!! Yet we can not
> start it no matter what we try. Like they always say, you don't want to run
> a fuel injected car out of gas, but clearly something was damaged when it
> ran out of gas as it should start eventually.
>
> So it's towing time next as I have replaced all filters, spark plugs, and
> fluid levels. The starter sounds strong yet when I turn the key initially,
> I don't hear the fuel pump (before I turn it over) like I usually do in
> other cars. I am begginging to wonder if the fuel pump is shot. I hope not
> as it's located IN THE FUEL TANK.
>
> But the problem is definately beyond my and my father's rudamentary skills.

Hrrm, if you're not hearing the fuel pump, it could well be that it's
toasted. Of course, it could also be a fuse or relay - Hondas, for
example, are (in)famous for their "main relay" failing, especially with
temperature extremes. This is the relay that triggers fuel pump
operation, and the failure is more often that not simply a solder joint
that has been loosened through temperature changes and vibration.

I don't know if Mazda has something similar, but it may be worth looking
into.

As for accessing the fuel pump, it may be varying degrees of difficulty.
In the third-gen Accords, at least, there's a little access plate in
the trunk/hatch that you can pop out to unbolt and remove the
pump/filter/pickup assembly. In Civics of the same age, however, while
the pump/filter/pickup is installed in the tank in a similar way, you
have to actually lower the tank to access it.