Questions about studio monitors

[Zerex71]

Greetings,

I was wondering if someone might be able to give me some introductory
information on what I should be looking for in a pair of studio
monitors. Eventually I'm going to be able to have a home studio, but
right now I am just pricing out various components and one thing which
I have very little experience in is being able to figure out what
monitors would be right for the job. The only limiting factor is that
I don't want something super-expensive or anything really cheap - I am
willing to pay for quality. What should I be looking for in
monitors? Anyone have any brand-model recommendations?

Thanks,
Mike

[Scott Dorsey]

Zerex71 > wrote:
>
>I was wondering if someone might be able to give me some introductory
>information on what I should be looking for in a pair of studio
>monitors. Eventually I'm going to be able to have a home studio, but
>right now I am just pricing out various components and one thing which
>I have very little experience in is being able to figure out what
>monitors would be right for the job. The only limiting factor is that
>I don't want something super-expensive or anything really cheap - I am
>willing to pay for quality. What should I be looking for in
>monitors? Anyone have any brand-model recommendations?

What is super-expensive? Is it $500 or $50,000?

There is a lot out there, and the problem is that all speakers are very
inaccurate, so it becomes in great part a matter of taste to find something
whose colorations you can live with at the price point you can afford.

What kind of music are you working with? What kind of speakers have you
liked in the past? What kind haven't you liked?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 17, 11:09 am, Zerex71 > wrote:

> I was wondering if someone might be able to give me some introductory
> information on what I should be looking for in a pair of studio
> monitors.

They should sound good and you should be able to listen to them for a
long time without getting tired.

> Eventually I'm going to be able to have a home studio, but
> right now I am just pricing out various components

What does "eventually" mean? In a couple of months, or maybe in the
next five years? Things change pretty fast in this business. What
specifics you learn now may not apply next year.

> The only limiting factor is that
> I don't want something super-expensive or anything really cheap - I am
> willing to pay for quality.

Pick a number (dollars). That will establish the most important
starting point. No far asking what you can get for $200, $500, $1000,
or more. You need to decide how much you can spend. Some people
consider that about half your equipment budget should go toward
monitors. Though the wide variety of usable $200 mics has skewed this
somewhat, I think that 50% is probably still a reasonable starting
point.

[Zerex71]

On Dec 17, 11:35 am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> Zerex71 > wrote:
>
> >I was wondering if someone might be able to give me some introductory
> >information on what I should be looking for in a pair of studio
> >monitors. Eventually I'm going to be able to have a home studio, but
> >right now I am just pricing out various components and one thing which
> >I have very little experience in is being able to figure out what
> >monitors would be right for the job. The only limiting factor is that
> >I don't want something super-expensive or anything really cheap - I am
> >willing to pay for quality. What should I be looking for in
> >monitors? Anyone have any brand-model recommendations?
>
> What is super-expensive? Is it $500 or $50,000?
>
> There is a lot out there, and the problem is that all speakers are very
> inaccurate, so it becomes in great part a matter of taste to find something
> whose colorations you can live with at the price point you can afford.
>
> What kind of music are you working with? What kind of speakers have you
> liked in the past? What kind haven't you liked?
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Hi Scott,

As far as price is concerned, I'm thinking price/pair, and $500 might
be passable but I get the sense based on previous experience that I'd
be more wowed by something in the $1,000 range, give or take a couple
of hundred.

I'd be working primarily with jazz, blues, and rock, and they would be
strictly used for home studio monitoring through a PC. I have not
worked with any speakers in the past, which is kind of why it's hard
to go just by catalogs. For example, I have seen Rokits, M-Audio,
etc. but haven't any good idea of what to look for in the monitors,
and I rarely if ever find salespeople that sharp to be able to tell me
the finer points of what I'd be looking for as a discriminating
listener. It helps that I'm an engineer by trade and it makes me a
lot more analytical.

Mike

[Zerex71]

On Dec 17, 11:37 am, Mike Rivers > wrote:
> On Dec 17, 11:09 am, Zerex71 > wrote:
>
> > I was wondering if someone might be able to give me some introductory
> > information on what I should be looking for in a pair of studio
> > monitors.
>
> They should sound good and you should be able to listen to them for a
> long time without getting tired.
>
> > Eventually I'm going to be able to have a home studio, but
> > right now I am just pricing out various components
>
> What does "eventually" mean? In a couple of months, or maybe in the
> next five years? Things change pretty fast in this business. What
> specifics you learn now may not apply next year.
>
> > The only limiting factor is that
> > I don't want something super-expensive or anything really cheap - I am
> > willing to pay for quality.
>
> Pick a number (dollars). That will establish the most important
> starting point. No far asking what you can get for $200, $500, $1000,
> or more. You need to decide how much you can spend. Some people
> consider that about half your equipment budget should go toward
> monitors. Though the wide variety of usable $200 mics has skewed this
> somewhat, I think that 50% is probably still a reasonable starting
> point.

So it sounds to me like price point should be a first consideration,
which obviously it will be.

Would some kind of listening test at a local dealer be in order? Or
would that be a moot point since they would definitely sound different
in my home environment?

Any brands to stay away from?

I guess when someone mentioned the "they should sound good" comment,
it sounds like ultimately, unless you are a true audiophile (which I'm
not, even though I am a discriminating listener), your ears will be
your guide as to what you should get, i.e. get the monitors you like,
not necessarily what everyone else is buying, and there are no "right"
or "wrong" answers.

Mike

[William Sommerwerck]

The main decision, it seems to be, is this...

Do you want speakers that are of extremely high accuracy, that reproduce
exactly (more or less) what's on the recording?

Or do you want speakers that are similar in sound character to those most of
your intended audience owns?

The "correct" mix for one will not be correct for the other.

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 17, 11:47 am, Zerex71 > wrote:

> Would some kind of listening test at a local dealer be in order? Or
> would that be a moot point since they would definitely sound different
> in my home environment?

Of course you should go to a dealer and listen to some monitors. They
will almost certainly sound different in your home environment, but
you can (and should) fix your environment. Unless you go to a serious
dealer who has a good sounding control room setup (and few do) you'll
just be listening to speakers on the shelf and your own room might
even be better - it will certainly be different. But with some
listening, you will probably find some that you know you don't like.
That will make your choices easier.

> Any brands to stay away from?

Not necessarily.

> it sounds like ultimately, unless you are a true audiophile (which I'm
> not, even though I am a discriminating listener), your ears will be
> your guide as to what you should get

This is particularly true for an audiophile. They always choose what
they like to hear. Audiophools buy from the spec sheet and convince
themselves that it sounds terrific.

> there are no "right"
> or "wrong" answers.

The only wrong answer is to buy what someone else says they like that
isn't the same as what you like.

[Mike Rivers]

I should add that you should be prepared to do some acoustic treatment
of your room in order to hear what your monitors are producing.
There's no point in spending $1000 on monitors if their carefully
tuned performance gets shot because of poor disbursion or odd
reflections in your room.

Contrary to popular opinion, "near field" monitors don't completely
make the room go away.

[Scott Dorsey]

Zerex71 > wrote:
>
>As far as price is concerned, I'm thinking price/pair, and $500 might
>be passable but I get the sense based on previous experience that I'd
>be more wowed by something in the $1,000 range, give or take a couple
>of hundred.

Go and listen to the Tannoy Reveals, and the bottom of the line Genelec
8000-series speakers. You might look at the NHT stuff also.

>I'd be working primarily with jazz, blues, and rock, and they would be
>strictly used for home studio monitoring through a PC. I have not
>worked with any speakers in the past, which is kind of why it's hard
>to go just by catalogs. For example, I have seen Rokits, M-Audio,
>etc. but haven't any good idea of what to look for in the monitors,
>and I rarely if ever find salespeople that sharp to be able to tell me
>the finer points of what I'd be looking for as a discriminating
>listener.

Jazz, Blues, and Rock is a big range.

If you're in the bargain basement range, you're either going to have
to sacrifice midrange quality or low end. I suggest you might do better
sacrificing low end, but that may not be the case for you depending on
how you work. That's why I recommend the Reveals, for instance.

> It helps that I'm an engineer by trade and it makes me a
>lot more analytical.

You may want to consider trying Dave Moulton's ear training course, then.
It's a lot of work, but afterward you'll know what drives you up the wall
about your existing playback gear.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[[email protected]]

On 2007-12-17 said:
>I should add that you should be prepared to do some acoustic
>treatment of your room in order to hear what your monitors are
>producing. There's no point in spending $1000 on monitors if their
>carefully tuned performance gets shot because of poor disbursion or
>odd reflections in your room.
PReach it brother preach it!

>Contrary to popular opinion, "near field" monitors don't completely
>make the room go away.
THat's why in our 19 ft. truck box there's a big bass trap
on the driver's side to help with that. Another table or
work surface would fit under it provided the op working that
side doesn't have to lean over to deal with anything on it,
he there's not a bunch of headroom over the potential work
area. Hence the best use for it is to stash the splitter
rack and other gear when traveling <g>.



Richard webb,
Replace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real
email address.

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 17, 3:54 pm, wrote:

>Contrary to popular opinion, "near field" monitors don't completely
> >make the room go away.

> THat's why in our 19 ft. truck box there's a big bass trap
> on the driver's side to help with that.

Richard! You shouldn't talk about your wife that way. <g>

[Dewittian]

On Dec 17, 4:09 pm, Mike Rivers > wrote:
> On Dec 17, 3:54 pm, wrote:
>
> >Contrary to popular opinion, "near field" monitors don't completely
>
> > >make the room go away.
> > THat's why in our 19 ft. truck box there's a big bass trap
> > on the driver's side to help with that.
>
> Richard! You shouldn't talk about your wife that way. <g>

Most important is to get your primary set of monitors and a CD to use
as a reference. I use the album 90210 by the band YES. If it sounds
good right away then I can compare what I'm mixing to that sound
quality. I say right away because after a very short time our brains
are wired to get used to the way something sounds. The brain adapts
and compensates a little for the sonic quality (or lack of). Then
when you have your primary you'll need the special ones that cover the
bottom end and are loud. Then when I think I've got it pretty close I
play it everywhere I can and make notes. Friends computers, boom box,
cheap car speakers, headphones (which sometimes I start my mix from),
ear buds, anything and everything that everyone also in the world
might have to endure while playing your music. The tough part is
weather to adjust anything after you see the differences. Keep your
main audience in mind. If it's a demo most people in the industry
have great stereos but sometimes only have time to listen in the car.
If your audience is not audiophiles just regular aim for a good sound
at the computer speaker level. Well enough said. Good luck and
remember to not make your file suffer too much compression in .MP3
translation.

[Arny Krueger]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in
message
> The main decision, it seems to be, is this...
>
> Do you want speakers that are of extremely high accuracy,
> that reproduce exactly (more or less) what's on the
> recording?
>
> Or do you want speakers that are similar in sound
> character to those most of your intended audience owns?
>
> The "correct" mix for one will not be correct for the
> other.

If we presume that customer speakers have random deviations from true
accuracy, then on the average, the customers would be best served the
professional who serves them using speakers with the greatest accuracy.

[[email protected]]

On 2007-12-17 said:
>> THat's why in our 19 ft. truck box there's a big bass trap
>> on the driver's side to help with that.
>Richard! You shouldn't talk about your wife that way. <g>
<ROTFLMAO!> THe thing is, that's both her side in the cab
and when working on site. HOwever, she's a little too
massive to do that well as a bass trap <g>.
SHe's a big lady, that's all the further I"m going to go
with that one.
IF you ever meet both of us you'll understand, she's big and
loud.

Regards,



Richard webb,
Replace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real
email address.

[Chris Hornbeck]

On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 08:09:59 -0800 (PST), Zerex71 >
wrote:

>I was wondering if someone might be able to give me some introductory
>information on what I should be looking for in a pair of studio
>monitors. Eventually I'm going to be able to have a home studio, but
>right now I am just pricing out various components and one thing which
>I have very little experience in is being able to figure out what
>monitors would be right for the job. The only limiting factor is that
>I don't want something super-expensive or anything really cheap - I am
>willing to pay for quality. What should I be looking for in
>monitors? Anyone have any brand-model recommendations?

Too many great suggestions already, but maybe I could offer
a suggestion for the audition process. For testing and
confirming the setup of customers' (home) systems I like
to play a commercial CD that is both deeply familiar and
not recently overplayed. For example, that's currently
_American Beauty_. Familiar for decades, but not in heavy
rotation.

I listen for both the essence (for lack of a better word)
of the music and for any new perspective on the music. Do I
hear any new parts? Do I understand a lyric better? Does
the rhythm seem clearer, or not? Like that.

These are wishy-washy ways of interpreting the ways that
speakers and installations work, or don't work, but seem to
be useful for me. Both should appear in a good installation,
and I believe that both should be heard in a good audition of
the speakers in a random room.

Attempting to listen for a pleasant sound or a discriminating
sound or some other characteristic is just too difficult in a
pressured retail situation, so maybe this "remove" might be
helpful.

IOW, don't try to listen to the speakers; instead try to listen
to what they're *supposed to be* doing. Just a thought.

All good fortune,

Chris Hornbeck

[Carey Carlan]

Zerex71 > wrote in news:31bce9b1-9604-4ed6-92a8-
:

> Greetings,
>
> I was wondering if someone might be able to give me some introductory
> information on what I should be looking for in a pair of studio
> monitors. Eventually I'm going to be able to have a home studio, but
> right now I am just pricing out various components and one thing which
> I have very little experience in is being able to figure out what
> monitors would be right for the job. The only limiting factor is that
> I don't want something super-expensive or anything really cheap - I am
> willing to pay for quality. What should I be looking for in
> monitors? Anyone have any brand-model recommendations?

You've heard the reminders to audition and use your ears to decide.

As a candidate, I suggest the ones I use: Event ASP8.

About $1300/pair or cheaper. Active (built-in amps). Near fields.

They have a good wide frequency range and are fairly smooth. At about 4
feet from the listening position they sound quite good. I use them in a
large room away from reflective surfaces (except the gear that surrounds
me) and the only problem I've found is that sometimes they are too kind
to the music, making it sound a bit better than on other speakers.

Get many suggestions. Listen to many speakers.
Only then can you know you bought the pair best for you.

[hank alrich]

Carey Carlan > wrote:

> Zerex71 > wrote in news:31bce9b1-9604-4ed6-92a8-
> :
>
> > Greetings,
> >
> > I was wondering if someone might be able to give me some introductory
> > information on what I should be looking for in a pair of studio
> > monitors. Eventually I'm going to be able to have a home studio, but
> > right now I am just pricing out various components and one thing which
> > I have very little experience in is being able to figure out what
> > monitors would be right for the job. The only limiting factor is that
> > I don't want something super-expensive or anything really cheap - I am
> > willing to pay for quality. What should I be looking for in
> > monitors? Anyone have any brand-model recommendations?
>
> You've heard the reminders to audition and use your ears to decide.
>
> As a candidate, I suggest the ones I use: Event ASP8.
>
> About $1300/pair or cheaper. Active (built-in amps). Near fields.
>
> They have a good wide frequency range and are fairly smooth. At about 4
> feet from the listening position they sound quite good. I use them in a
> large room away from reflective surfaces (except the gear that surrounds
> me) and the only problem I've found is that sometimes they are too kind
> to the music, making it sound a bit better than on other speakers.
>
> Get many suggestions. Listen to many speakers.
> Only then can you know you bought the pair best for you.

I've been working lately with a pair of Genelec 8040A's, and they seem
unflatteringly honest. If it sounds good, it sounds good and if it
doesn't it certainly doesn't. Under all that, their low end is kind of
startling for such a small box. I have been hearing all kinds of things
in released commercial product that had previously gone unheard. Some of
what I'm hearing suggests that in spite of the very big names associated
with the products, nobody really heard the bottom.

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam