Hammond M2 organ info sought,..

[spud[_6_]]

Hi gang. This one was a free-bee on it's way to the dump. Late
fifties, early sixties? Tube rig with 2 6v6's, one speaker facing the
players feet. Four man moving job. Smells like cats pee. I got it
going but I could use some insight into what all the gizmos do.
There's a horizontal tank about three feet long in the back. This
houses some kind of spinning shaft and associated sci-fi electronics
which I think you pre-start using a momentary switch. The relay and
gears at the drawbar end were hung up. De-rusting and oiling freed it
up but it still has a hard time getting up to speed. Also, it's a
little noisy still and I'm wondering how much of this is normal. After
oiling all the places the oil wells are supposed to feed from wicked
threads and rolling it all by hand for a while I got it to start. I
guess it takes about 20 secs to get up to speed. That about right? Now
throwing the RUN switch will keep the shaft thing spinning and I get
incredibly good sound out of it with a few caveats.
1) One of the drawbars in the middle of the drawbar array controls a
kind of 6oz sized can which is horizontally situated. This seems to
control the preamp drive/vol and has lots of crackle, hum and
avalanche noise when exercised. You can make the tone loud and mildly
distorted in an incredibly good way with this but it needs replacing
or cleaning up. Any idea what it is or what's inside the can? It's not
very accessible for squirting things in there. I can get contact
cleaner on the drawbar contact but not inside the can or shaft the
drawbar operates.
2) The foot pedals just make real low sounds, like they are an octave
below what they are supposed to be. You can hardly tell the difference
in pitch it's so low. I haven't figured out which buttons belong to
these things. Some are marked pedal but don't seem to do much. It
seems like the foot pedals are quite a bit louder than the two
keyboard tiers. Can you set volume for the three elements
independently?
3) The drawbars seem divided into two banks. One for the bottom keys
and one for the top keys with the drive thing dividing them. Is this
correct? I'm not an organ player.
4) How do you mic these things? Turn it up loud and put a mic behind
the bench the players sitting on so you're aiming between their knees
at the speaker? There's lot's of associated noise. Some amp hum, the
spinning sound. If you used your feet for the pedals that would be
pretty clunky too.
5) Can you change the tremolo speed?

Well, that's it for now. The gas pedal and all the keys work perfectly
and it sounds like a million dollars except for some of the extraneous
noise. You can tweak the drawbars for lot's of different sounds. This
things is really cool!

[John Williamson]

spud wrote:

>
> Well, that's it for now. The gas pedal and all the keys work perfectly
> and it sounds like a million dollars except for some of the extraneous
> noise. You can tweak the drawbars for lot's of different sounds. This
> things is really cool!

These guys claim to have a technical manual in stock:-

http://www.mitatechs.com/organcom.html#f10

They also claim to be able to recondition the motor, which is actually 2
motors in one, if you've got a start switch and a run switch. One starts
the ball rolling & the other keeps it going. If there's no start switch,
then the motor is a capacitor start synchronous motor, which may have a
dud capacitor. That one's a bit harder to get sorted out if it's not the
start capacitor.

Your bass being an octave too low may well be due to the motor locking
into synch at half the correct speed, but you'd maybe notice all the
notes being an octave too low, as they're all derived from the tonewheel
speed.

If it's still working at all, that's not bad considering it's 50 odd
years old..

The "tank" in the back holds the tonewheels which generate the sound by
means of pickup coils mounted inside. To get the right pitch, the motor
has to run at exactly the right speed, either 3600 rpm or 1800 rpm,
depending on your particular organ.

When one in good order's running, you should get just a hint of
mechanical noise from the tonweheel area, & maybe a *very* slight
beehive effect from the speaker if you hold your ear right next to it
with the volume up & no keys pressed.

The drawbars are set up as a bank for each keyboard, yes. It gives a
very versatile setup. The drawbars work by controlling the levels of
overtones generated in the tonewheel unit. All the overtones are always
generated at full level, then turned down by the drawbars, which work by
decreasing the level of their tone as you push them.

The bad news is that last time I heard of someone in the UK (London)
getting a Hammond Organ reconditioned, the bill was a couple of thousand
pounds. It was well worth it, though, they reckoned :-)

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Badmuts]

"spud" > wrote in message
...
> Hi gang. This one was a free-bee on it's way to the dump. Late
> fifties, early sixties?

Get yourself subscribed to the Hamtech mailing list: http://www.hamtech.org/
for more info.
The worlds greatest Hammond experts are there and a couple of fine players,
too.
All the knowledge you want and more. They can even help you establish a
manufacturing date of your organ from things like serial # and other
details.

This organ is well worth keeping and maintaining!

Bm
(Hammond player and enthusiast)

[Jack]

In article >,
spud > wrote:

> Hi gang. This one was a free-bee on it's way to the dump. Late
> fifties, early sixties? Tube rig with 2 6v6's, one speaker facing the
> players feet. Four man moving job. Smells like cats pee. I got it
> going but I could use some insight into what all the gizmos do.
> There's a horizontal tank about three feet long in the back. This
> houses some kind of spinning shaft and associated sci-fi electronics
> which I think you pre-start using a momentary switch. The relay and
> gears at the drawbar end were hung up. De-rusting and oiling freed it
> up but it still has a hard time getting up to speed. Also, it's a
> little noisy still and I'm wondering how much of this is normal. After
> oiling all the places the oil wells are supposed to feed from wicked
> threads and rolling it all by hand for a while I got it to start. I
> guess it takes about 20 secs to get up to speed. That about right? Now
> throwing the RUN switch will keep the shaft thing spinning and I get
> incredibly good sound out of it with a few caveats.
> 1) One of the drawbars in the middle of the drawbar array controls a
> kind of 6oz sized can which is horizontally situated. This seems to
> control the preamp drive/vol and has lots of crackle, hum and
> avalanche noise when exercised. You can make the tone loud and mildly
> distorted in an incredibly good way with this but it needs replacing
> or cleaning up. Any idea what it is or what's inside the can? It's not
> very accessible for squirting things in there. I can get contact
> cleaner on the drawbar contact but not inside the can or shaft the
> drawbar operates.
> 2) The foot pedals just make real low sounds, like they are an octave
> below what they are supposed to be. You can hardly tell the difference
> in pitch it's so low. I haven't figured out which buttons belong to
> these things. Some are marked pedal but don't seem to do much. It
> seems like the foot pedals are quite a bit louder than the two
> keyboard tiers. Can you set volume for the three elements
> independently?
> 3) The drawbars seem divided into two banks. One for the bottom keys
> and one for the top keys with the drive thing dividing them. Is this
> correct? I'm not an organ player.
> 4) How do you mic these things? Turn it up loud and put a mic behind
> the bench the players sitting on so you're aiming between their knees
> at the speaker? There's lot's of associated noise. Some amp hum, the
> spinning sound. If you used your feet for the pedals that would be
> pretty clunky too.
> 5) Can you change the tremolo speed?
>
> Well, that's it for now. The gas pedal and all the keys work perfectly
> and it sounds like a million dollars except for some of the extraneous
> noise. You can tweak the drawbars for lot's of different sounds. This
> things is really cool!


Oiling - it is possible to over-oil a Hammond tonewheel organ. They just
need a touch. 3 in 1 oil works well.

Noise: mechanical or electrical/electronic? An old Hammond can be quite
noisy if it hasn't been run in a while.

As I remember, the tremolo speed is not continuously variable, at least
from the player's point of view.

The foot pedals making low sounds - they're supposed to be low in
frequency. It's possible though that not all the contacts are actually
making contact and you're only getting the sound of the 16 foot drawbar.
It is possible for player with exceptional touch to make a Hammond
drawbar organ not play all the sounds setup by the drawbars by partially
depressing a pedal or key - I've done that to great effect to bring in a
sound gradually.
--
Jack N2MPU
Proud NRA Life Member

[Melodious Thunk[_2_]]

On Dec 17, 2:58 am, spud > wrote:
> Hi gang. This one was a free-bee on it's way to the dump. Late
> fifties, early sixties? Tube rig with 2 6v6's, one speaker facing the
> players feet. Four man moving job. Smells like cats pee.

Why, that's *my* old M2! Didja get the sunflower seeds out? ;-)

[[email protected]]

On Dec 17, 2:58*am, spud > wrote:
> Hi gang. This one was a free-bee on it's way to the dump. Late
> fifties, early sixties? Tube rig with 2 6v6's, one speaker facing the
> players feet. Four man moving job. Smells like cats pee. I got it
> going but I could use some insight into what all the gizmos do.
> There's a horizontal tank about three feet long in the back. This
> houses some kind of spinning shaft and associated sci-fi electronics
> which I think you pre-start using a momentary switch. The relay and
> gears at the drawbar end were hung up. De-rusting and oiling freed it
> up but it still has a hard time getting up to speed. Also, it's a
> little noisy still and I'm wondering how much of this is normal. After
> oiling all the places the oil wells are supposed to feed from wicked
> threads and rolling it all by hand for a while I got it to start. I
> guess it takes about 20 secs to get up to speed. That about right? Now
> throwing the RUN switch will keep the shaft thing spinning and I get
> incredibly good sound out of it with a few caveats.
> 1) One of the drawbars in the middle of the drawbar array controls a
> kind of 6oz sized can which is horizontally situated. This seems to
> control the preamp drive/vol and has lots of crackle, hum and
> avalanche noise when exercised. You can make the tone loud and mildly
> distorted in an incredibly good way with this but it needs replacing
> or cleaning up. Any idea what it is or what's inside the can? It's not
> very accessible for squirting things in there. I can getcontactcleaneron the drawbar contact but not inside the can or shaft the
> drawbar operates.
> 2) The foot pedals just make real low sounds, like they are an octave
> below what they are supposed to be. You can hardly tell the difference
> in pitch it's so low. I haven't figured out which buttons belong to
> these things. Some are marked pedal but don't seem to do much. It
> seems like the foot pedals are quite a bit louder than the two
> keyboard tiers. Can you set volume for the three elements
> independently?
> 3) The drawbars seem divided into two banks. One for the bottom keys
> and one for the top keys with the drive thing dividing them. Is this
> correct? I'm not an organ player.
> 4) How do you mic these things? Turn it up loud and put a mic behind
> the bench the players sitting on so you're aiming between their knees
> at the speaker? There's lot's of associated noise. Some amp hum, the
> spinning sound. If you used your feet for the pedals that would be
> pretty clunky too.
> 5) Can you change the tremolo speed?
>
> Well, that's it for now. The gas pedal and all the keys work perfectly
> and it sounds like a million dollars except for some of the extraneous
> noise. You can tweak the drawbars for lot's of different sounds. This
> things is really cool!

Best stuff to use is DeoxIT Gold, make all connections better than
new. Sound and performance is better - don't know how, but it does.
www.deoxit.com
Mike

[Randy Yates]

spud > writes:
> [...]

Sounds like you happened on a pretty cool - and valuable - piece
of junk. Restored those should bring several thousand US dollars.

For your technical issues, I recommend contacting the guys at
Goff Professional:

http://www.goffprof.com/

They are a really nice, helpful bunch of guys there and are very
enthusiastic about everything Hammond.

--A Former Hammond B3 Owner

--
% Randy Yates % "Though you ride on the wheels of tomorrow,
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC % you still wander the fields of your
%%% 919-577-9882 % sorrow."
%%%% > % '21st Century Man', *Time*, ELO
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

[Randy Yates]

Randy Yates > writes:

> Restored those should bring several thousand US dollars.

Correction: That was probably too high. I assumed the M2 was
one of the predecessors to the B3/A100 but it's not - it's
a 44-note/1 octave pedal machine. Still you might get one or
two grand from the right buyer.
--
% Randy Yates % "And all that I can do
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC % is say I'm sorry,
%%% 919-577-9882 % that's the way it goes..."
%%%% > % Getting To The Point', *Balance of Power*, ELO
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

[jakdedert]

Randy Yates wrote:
> Randy Yates > writes:
>
>> Restored those should bring several thousand US dollars.
>
> Correction: That was probably too high. I assumed the M2 was
> one of the predecessors to the B3/A100 but it's not - it's
> a 44-note/1 octave pedal machine. Still you might get one or
> two grand from the right buyer.

Hard to say. I guess it could be geographically dependent. Check out
this Craiglist listing from a local dealer here in Nashville:

<http://nashville.craigslist.org/msg/513375567.html>

That's an M3...step above the M2, IIRC, but I'm no afficianado. Still,
if I had the rooms and a Leslie--and I could play anything beyond 'lead
soundboard'--I'd certainly consider getting it. I believe he had
several of them advertised 'from $295' last week. I wonder if this is
the last one.

jak

[Kiwanda[_2_]]

On Dec 21, 10:22 am, Randy Yates > wrote:
> Randy Yates > writes:
> > Restored those should bring several thousand US dollars.
>
> Correction: That was probably too high. I assumed the M2 was
> one of the predecessors to the B3/A100 but it's not - it's
> a 44-note/1 octave pedal machine. Still you might get one or
> two grand from the right buyer.

I'm afraid even that's high. I've had many Hammonds over the last 15
years or so, and never paid more than $75 for any of them. The last
M-2 I had I think was $50, though I did sell it for $300 later. More
recently I've been picking up L-100s, which are somewhat easier to
work on and being newer tend to be in better shape. I have two L-111s
right now; one was $70 in pristine condition w/bench, the other was
$10 in playable condition. That said, even the M and L series
Hammonds are great fun to have around. You'll want a Leslie to achieve
something close to the classic B3 growl, but an L series sounds pretty
damn good even without. There are lots of great Hammond resources on
the net; these are my favorites:

Hammond FAQ: http://theatreorgans.com/hammond/faq/hammond-faq_toc.html
Tonewheel General Hospital: http://www.tonewheelgeneral.com/agelist/agelist.php
Hamtech Mailing list: http://www.hamtech.org/list.htm

The folks on the Hamtech list are really great with advice, and often
can provide things like schematics if you're really digging into an
organ.THe guys at Goff Professional (http://www.goffprof.com/) are the
go-to for parts or service if you can't do it yourself. They offer
cool stuff ranging from spin motors to entire manuals stripped from
dead organs.

Good luck with the M-2. It will be worth cleaning up, and can probably
be sold for a few hundred when you're done. But it's much more fun to
keep one around to play with-- or even better, for those jam sessions
when you have a real keyboard player in the house (I'm just a
guitarist) and you can really see their eyes light up when they find
you have something more than a Casio to plug in.

-Kiwanda

[Randy Yates]

Kiwanda > writes:

> On Dec 21, 10:22 am, Randy Yates > wrote:
>> Randy Yates > writes:
>> > Restored those should bring several thousand US dollars.
>>
>> Correction: That was probably too high. I assumed the M2 was
>> one of the predecessors to the B3/A100 but it's not - it's
>> a 44-note/1 octave pedal machine. Still you might get one or
>> two grand from the right buyer.
>
> I'm afraid even that's high. I've had many Hammonds over the last 15
> years or so, and never paid more than $75 for any of them. The last
> M-2 I had I think was $50, though I did sell it for $300 later. More
> recently I've been picking up L-100s, which are somewhat easier to
> work on and being newer tend to be in better shape. I have two L-111s
> right now; one was $70 in pristine condition w/bench, the other was
> $10 in playable condition. That said, even the M and L series
> Hammonds are great fun to have around. You'll want a Leslie to achieve
> something close to the classic B3 growl, but an L series sounds pretty
> damn good even without. There are lots of great Hammond resources on
> the net; these are my favorites:
>
> Hammond FAQ: http://theatreorgans.com/hammond/faq/hammond-faq_toc.html
> Tonewheel General Hospital: http://www.tonewheelgeneral.com/agelist/agelist.php
> Hamtech Mailing list: http://www.hamtech.org/list.htm
>
> The folks on the Hamtech list are really great with advice, and often
> can provide things like schematics if you're really digging into an
> organ.THe guys at Goff Professional (http://www.goffprof.com/) are the
> go-to for parts or service if you can't do it yourself. They offer
> cool stuff ranging from spin motors to entire manuals stripped from
> dead organs.
>
> Good luck with the M-2. It will be worth cleaning up, and can probably
> be sold for a few hundred when you're done. But it's much more fun to
> keep one around to play with-- or even better, for those jam sessions
> when you have a real keyboard player in the house (I'm just a
> guitarist) and you can really see their eyes light up when they find
> you have something more than a Casio to plug in.
>
> -Kiwanda

Great info, Kiwanda. Was it a T or an L model that was used on the
old "House of Rising Sun"? The only reason I'm conjecturing this is
that the sound seems to be what I remember playing back in the early
70's at my old organ stomping grounds, "Tadlock's Piano and Organ"
(Panama City, FL).
--
% Randy Yates % "She has an IQ of 1001, she has a jumpsuit
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC % on, and she's also a telephone."
%%% 919-577-9882 %
%%%% > % 'Yours Truly, 2095', *Time*, ELO
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

[Kiwanda[_2_]]

On Dec 21, 8:52 pm, Randy Yates > wrote:

> Great info, Kiwanda. Was it a T or an L model that was used on the
> old "House of Rising Sun"?

That's always sounded like a transistor combo to me, most likely a Vox
Continental. That's also what shows up in most of the period video
I've seen of the Animals, like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRV9QCXLtHQ&feature=related
I'm no expert though, just a Hammond tinkerer. I've never even played
a Vox, though I do have a Honer Pianet N in the basement that I'm
planning to restore this winter.

-kiwanda

[Randy Yates]

Kiwanda > writes:

> On Dec 21, 8:52 pm, Randy Yates > wrote:
>
>> Great info, Kiwanda. Was it a T or an L model that was used on the
>> old "House of Rising Sun"?
>
> That's always sounded like a transistor combo to me, most likely a Vox
> Continental. That's also what shows up in most of the period video
> I've seen of the Animals, like this one:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRV9QCXLtHQ&feature=related

Oops! Looks like you're right. Well that sound fooled me. A Vox
Continental - same as the Doors, right?
--
% Randy Yates % "She's sweet on Wagner-I think she'd die for Beethoven.
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC % She love the way Puccini lays down a tune, and
%%% 919-577-9882 % Verdi's always creepin' from her room."
%%%% > % "Rockaria", *A New World Record*, ELO
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

[[email protected]]

On Dec 23, 10:20 am, Randy Yates > wrote:
> Kiwanda > writes:
> > On Dec 21, 8:52 pm, Randy Yates > wrote:
>
> >> Great info, Kiwanda. Was it a T or an L model that was used on the
> >> old "House of Rising Sun"?
>
> > That's always sounded like a transistor combo to me, most likely a Vox
> > Continental. That's also what shows up in most of the period video
> > I've seen of the Animals, like this one:
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRV9QCXLtHQ&feature=related
>
> Oops! Looks like you're right. Well that sound fooled me. A Vox
> Continental - same as the Doors, right?
> --
> % Randy Yates % "She's sweet on Wagner-I think she'd die for Beethoven.
> %% Fuquay-Varina, NC % She love the way Puccini lays down a tune, and
> %%% 919-577-9882 % Verdi's always creepin' from her room."
> %%%% > % "Rockaria", *A New World Record*, ELO http://www.digitalsignallabs.com


I think Ray Manzarek played a Farfisa in those days, w/ a Fender Bass
Celeste on top.

Philip Perkins

[Randy Yates]

" > writes:

> On Dec 23, 10:20 am, Randy Yates > wrote:
>> Kiwanda > writes:
>> > On Dec 21, 8:52 pm, Randy Yates > wrote:
>>
>> >> Great info, Kiwanda. Was it a T or an L model that was used on the
>> >> old "House of Rising Sun"?
>>
>> > That's always sounded like a transistor combo to me, most likely a Vox
>> > Continental. That's also what shows up in most of the period video
>> > I've seen of the Animals, like this one:
>> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRV9QCXLtHQ&feature=related
>>
>> Oops! Looks like you're right. Well that sound fooled me. A Vox
>> Continental - same as the Doors, right?
>> --
>> % Randy Yates % "She's sweet on Wagner-I think she'd die for Beethoven.
>> %% Fuquay-Varina, NC % She love the way Puccini lays down a tune, and
>> %%% 919-577-9882 % Verdi's always creepin' from her room."
>> %%%% > % "Rockaria", *A New World Record*, ELO http://www.digitalsignallabs.com
>
>
> I think Ray Manzarek played a Farfisa in those days,

Could be, although Wikipedia states otherwise. (I don't have much faith
in Wikipedia.) See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vox_Continental

Also, there is no mention of the Doors in

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farfisa

> w/ a Fender Bass Celeste on top.

You mean like this:

http://www.fenderrhodes.com/img/models/silvertop/pianobass.jpg

According to Fender there were two instruments, a "Fender Piano
Bass" that is pictured above, and a Fender Rhodes Celeste that
is the middle octaves from a standard Rhodes.

http://www.fenderrhodes.com/models/silvertop.php

Ray's setup, whatever it was, sounded cool.
--
% Randy Yates % "Midnight, on the water...
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC % I saw... the ocean's daughter."
%%% 919-577-9882 % 'Can't Get It Out Of My Head'
%%%% > % *El Dorado*, Electric Light Orchestra
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

[Peter Larsen[_2_]]

Randy Yates wrote:

>> I think Ray Manzarek played a Farfisa in those days,

> Could be, although Wikipedia states otherwise. (I don't have much
> faith in Wikipedia.) See

My recollection is that print media of that day and age mentioned a Farfisa.

I can not remember my memory ever having failed ... O;-)


Kind regards

Peter Larsen