decisions decisions, pair Neumann kms-105s or SEnnheiser 441's

[[email protected]]

MOre development for the remote truck. Wanting to get a
good m/s pair eventually, probably the Beyers. aCquiring
some EV 635's, about four, but have a choice, a pair of
either mentioned in subject line. can't get both right now
though I'd love to.

For those of you folks who do plenty of on-site recording
work I'm curious if choosing between a pair of either and
just rebuilding your mic collection which you'd go for.

Regards,





Richard webb,
Replace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real
email address.

[Federico]

Tim,
Are you selling the 441s?
F.

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 12, 11:15 pm, "Tim Perry" >
wrote:

> Gee Richard you are asking to pick between a condenser and a dynamic... it
> doesn't seem fair.

Fair? What does fair have to do with it? It's not so much a decision
between a very good handheld stage vocal mic for a vocalist who takes
the time to learn to use it, and a very good "stand" mic that's good
for many voices and also many instruments.

Any singer who uses his or her mic as a prop would be very
uncomfortable with a Sennheiser 441. A fiddler who sings would be very
happy with one. Richard needs to consider which will be most often
used in the work that he anticipates and make the decision on that
basis. Given that he's equipping a remote truck, he'll be recording
live shows more often that doing studio-like recordings on location.
Many vocalists who have taken care to choose the optimum vocal mic
will already own their preferred mic, which may very well be a KSM105.
And a singer who is accustomed to an SM58 may not sound all that much
better singing into a KSM105 for the first time.

[Scott Dorsey]

> wrote:
>MOre development for the remote truck. Wanting to get a
>good m/s pair eventually, probably the Beyers. aCquiring
>some EV 635's, about four, but have a choice, a pair of
>either mentioned in subject line. can't get both right now
>though I'd love to.

So get one of each. And buy them used... both mikes sell for much less
used than they do new.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

Tim Perry > wrote:
>"Federico" > wrote in message
. ..
>> Tim,
>> Are you selling the 441s?
>
>no, i have had this one for many years and the plastic clip is half broken.
>That probably will drive the value down <g>

They all are broken.

Call Sennheiser and order the flexible rubber shockmount for the thing.
The shockmount isn't very expensive, and it doesn't break the way the
clips do.

Problem with the shockmount is that it does not lock the microphone in
place, so it can be pulled out. If this is an issue, gaff tape will solve
it.

While you're at it, there is also a shock mount assembly for the 421 that
also doesn't break like the normal 421 clips.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[[email protected]]

On 2007-12-13 said:
>> Gee Richard you are asking to pick between a condenser and a
>>dynamic... it doesn't seem fair.
>Fair? What does fair have to do with it? It's not so much a decision
>between a very good handheld stage vocal mic for a vocalist who
>takes the time to learn to use it, and a very good "stand" mic
>that's good for many voices and also many instruments.
>Any singer who uses his or her mic as a prop would be very
>uncomfortable with a Sennheiser 441. A fiddler who sings would be
>very happy with one. Richard needs to consider which will be most
>often used in the work that he anticipates and make the decision on
>that basis. Given that he's equipping a remote truck, he'll be
>recording live shows more often that doing studio-like recordings
>on location. Many vocalists who have taken care to choose the
>optimum vocal mic will already own their preferred mic, which may
>very well be a KSM105. And a singer who is accustomed to an SM58
>may not sound all that much better singing into a KSM105 for the
>first time.
WEll put, and exactly the reason I ask this question. I"d
like to eventually get something real nice for stereo main
pair such as Scheops (spelling) or JOsephsons maybe, but
right now I have to think versatility.
Yah yah I know, other than 4 ev 635's I"m looking at an M/S
pair also. can afford one decent pair about the first of the
year in the $600-800 range each and it comes down to those
two I listed.
familiar with the 441 but never put hands on a 105 that I
know of. May have mixed one in a live show setting without
knowing that's what the singer was using <g..
WEre I building a sports team you'd call waht I"m looking
for utility players, hence trying to maximize my investment.
Trying to build mic locker carefully as budget permits with
quality pieces. we can fill out gaps at first from rental
houses when the need arises.

tHanks for rephrasing the question in a more suitable way
for me MIke.




Richard webb,
Replace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real
email address.



YOu can suck out the frequency, but you can't frequency
out the suck.

[[email protected]]

On 2007-12-13 (ScottDorsey) said:
>So get one of each. And buy them used... both mikes sell for much
>less used than they do new.
PRobably easier done if one does sleazebay which I don't.
Have to kee my eyes open.


I know when you and I were talking mic locker efore you
suggested the Beyer m133 and m160 for M/S pair. My local
dealer says he doesn't think the 133 is a current production
model.
WOuld like to get something I can put up when all we want is
the one pair. LIke you I like the minimalist approach when
possible. A good pair for the stereo bar is a must, and
don't want to even deal with the uibquitous cHinese made
mics many are pushing these days.
Anything you'd consider as good pair for the stereo bar in
this price range?

oTherwise might look for one of each on the used mark and
save our shekels <g>.



Richard webb,
Replace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real
email address.

[Scott Dorsey]

> wrote:
>On 2007-12-13 (ScottDorsey) said:
> >So get one of each. And buy them used... both mikes sell for much
> >less used than they do new.
>
>PRobably easier done if one does sleazebay which I don't.
>Have to kee my eyes open.

Ask used gear brokers. They are out there.

>I know when you and I were talking mic locker efore you
>suggested the Beyer m133 and m160 for M/S pair. My local
>dealer says he doesn't think the 133 is a current production
>model.

Typo, probably. I meant M130, which is the figure-8 version of the
M-160. Voiced very similar. It's a great mike to have all by itself.

>WOuld like to get something I can put up when all we want is
>the one pair. LIke you I like the minimalist approach when
>possible. A good pair for the stereo bar is a must, and
>don't want to even deal with the uibquitous cHinese made
>mics many are pushing these days.
>Anything you'd consider as good pair for the stereo bar in
>this price range?

Josephson C4? AT 4053?

>oTherwise might look for one of each on the used mark and
>save our shekels <g>.

I'd tend to buy everything used if at all possible, except for delicate
items like the Beyers.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[[email protected]]

On 2007-12-13 (ScottDorsey) said:
>Typo, probably. I meant M130, which is the figure-8 version of the
>M-160. Voiced very similar. It's a great mike to have all by
>itself.
That's what I thought, and have a price on those.

>>possible. A good pair for the stereo bar is a must, and
>>don't want to even deal with the ubiquitous Chinese made
>>mics many are pushing these days.
>>Anything you'd consider as good pair for the stereo bar in
>>this price range?
>Josephson C4? AT 4053?
A friend had the Josephsons, I was thinking they were a
little spendier than that though. I'll have to see who I
can find deals in them.
I seem to recall liking them quite a bit.

>I'd tend to buy everything used if at all possible, except for
>delicate items like the Beyers.
THinking that way too. My main source of used market items
is this group though at the moment. dON't do the eBay
thing.

Regards,



Richard webb,
Replace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real
email address.

[Mike Clayton]

On Dec 14, 5:02 am, wrote:

> I"d
> like to eventually get something real nice for stereo main
> pair such as Scheops (spelling) or JOsephsons maybe, but
> right now I have to think versatility.

Richard, for your main pair something that's a little less expensive
than the Schoeps or Josephsons and very close in performance is the
AKG C480B with a hypercardioid head. I have a pair and a selection of
the capsules (omni, cardioid and hypercardioid) and they have served
me well.

Mike Clayton

[[email protected]]

On 2007-12-14 said:
>> like to eventually get something real nice for stereo main
>> pair such as Scheops (spelling) or JOsephsons maybe, but
>> right now I have to think versatility.
>Richard, for your main pair something that's a little less expensive
>than the Schoeps or Josephsons and very close in performance is the
>AKG C480B with a hypercardioid head. I have a pair and a selection
>of the capsules (omni, cardioid and hypercardioid) and they have
>served me well.
Was leaning toward just saying the heck with it and going
for a pair of Josephson c4's. I've heard of those you
mention but never encountered them. A friend back in the
midwest had a pair of the jOsephsons and I really liked
them, but will definitely give that some consideration.
Budget is finite after all <g>.
HOw 'bout it MR. Ford? Any thoughts on this topic? I know
I downloaded a bunch of your reviews of different mics back
when I could access your site by ftp but can't get there in
that manner these days.
I know the JOsephsons will be sure to impress those
producers who know a bit thanks to the name recognition, but
AKG isn't considered in the same light as Behringer et al so
it's definitely on the short list. Thanks MIke!



Richard webb,
Replace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real
email address.

[Scott Dorsey]

In article >,
> wrote:
>
>On 2007-12-14 said:
> >> like to eventually get something real nice for stereo main
> >> pair such as Scheops (spelling) or JOsephsons maybe, but
> >> right now I have to think versatility.
> >Richard, for your main pair something that's a little less expensive
> >than the Schoeps or Josephsons and very close in performance is the
> >AKG C480B with a hypercardioid head. I have a pair and a selection
> >of the capsules (omni, cardioid and hypercardioid) and they have
> >served me well.
>Was leaning toward just saying the heck with it and going
>for a pair of Josephson c4's. I've heard of those you
>mention but never encountered them. A friend back in the
>midwest had a pair of the jOsephsons and I really liked
>them, but will definitely give that some consideration.
>Budget is finite after all <g>.

I think the C480 is a better mike than the Josephson C4, but it's also
more expensive.

It's not as good a microphone as the Josephson C606, but you can't get
those any longer because they take too long to build and cost too much
for the market.

>HOw 'bout it MR. Ford? Any thoughts on this topic? I know
>I downloaded a bunch of your reviews of different mics back
>when I could access your site by ftp but can't get there in
>that manner these days.
>I know the JOsephsons will be sure to impress those
>producers who know a bit thanks to the name recognition, but
>AKG isn't considered in the same light as Behringer et al so
>it's definitely on the short list. Thanks MIke!

Neither one is a super-tight microphone. Both are good for ambient
acoustical recording work, but if you're having to deal with PA leakage
or with really bad halls, they may not be a first choice.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[[email protected]]

On 2007-12-14 (ScottDorsey) said:
>> >Richard, for your main pair something that's a little less
>>expensive >than the Schoeps or Josephsons and very close in
>>performance is the >AKG C480B with a hypercardioid head. I have
>>a pair and a selection >of the capsules (omni, cardioid and
>>hypercardioid) and they have >served me well.
<snippage>
>I think the C480 is a better mike than the Josephson C4, but it's
>also more expensive.
>It's not as good a microphone as the Josephson C606, but you can't
>get those any longer because they take too long to build and cost
>too much for the market.
>>I know the JOsephsons will be sure to impress those
>>producers who know a bit thanks to the name recognition, but
>>AKG isn't considered in the same light as Behringer et al so
>>it's definitely on the short list. Thanks MIke!
>Neither one is a super-tight microphone. Both are good for ambient
>acoustical recording work, but if you're having to deal with PA
>leakage or with really bad halls, they may not be a first choice.
Yah there's that too, which I might have to deal with.
Hence was thinking about the Neumanns mentioned in subject
line, but there again I'm not familiar with those for main
stereo pair use. I"m mostly familiar with the ld Neumanns,
87 47 etc. A friend had a tlm103 he used for some voicework
which I liked as well. dIfferent paplication though.

I haven't had the opportunities to use really good kit in
this setting (orchestral, choral etcetera) where I wasn't
also doing some close miking, so picking brains quite a bit
here.

AT present lockeris some Ev 635's and a SEnnheiser, I think
609 for my vocal when gigging. tHis is why I'm trying to
budget first for a good pair for the stereo bar and fill in
other pieces later. Rebuilding whole mic collection after
the big hurricane and really studying my options closely.
Also why I value your opinion Scott.

Thanks,




Richard webb,
Replace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real
email address.



Great audio is never heard by the average person, but bad
audio is heard by everyone.

[Scott Dorsey]

In article >,
> wrote:
>
>Yah there's that too, which I might have to deal with.
>Hence was thinking about the Neumanns mentioned in subject
>line, but there again I'm not familiar with those for main
>stereo pair use. I"m mostly familiar with the ld Neumanns,
>87 47 etc. A friend had a tlm103 he used for some voicework
>which I liked as well. dIfferent paplication though.

The KMS105 is tight, but it's voiced to sound like a U87. Big peaky
top end, and more or less useless for far-field miking. It really
is designed as a stage mike, and you can't use it as an ambient mike.

>I haven't had the opportunities to use really good kit in
>this setting (orchestral, choral etcetera) where I wasn't
>also doing some close miking, so picking brains quite a bit
>here.

If I had to own only pair for the job it would probably be a
hypercardioid, just because that gives you a lot more flexibility.

>AT present lockeris some Ev 635's and a SEnnheiser, I think
>609 for my vocal when gigging. tHis is why I'm trying to
>budget first for a good pair for the stereo bar and fill in
>other pieces later. Rebuilding whole mic collection after
>the big hurricane and really studying my options closely.
>Also why I value your opinion Scott.

It sounds like you want a lot of very different microphones for
very different jobs.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Peter Larsen[_2_]]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

> The KMS105 is tight, but it's voiced to sound like a U87. Big peaky
> top end, and more or less useless for far-field miking. It really
> is designed as a stage mike, and you can't use it as an ambient mike.

My impression is that it is a SM57 alternative rather than a 441
alternative, the 441 alternative in the Neumann range would probably be the
184.

> --scott


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 14, 1:48 pm, wrote:

> Hence was thinking about the Neumanns mentioned in subject
> line, but there again I'm not familiar with those for main
> stereo pair use.

Oh, is THAT what you want this new mic purchase for? The KSM105 is
designed for close work, so it's quite inappropriate as an X-Y stereo
pair. The Sennheiser 441 might work, but that's usually not where it's
best.

Go for KM84s if you can find them. They'll work fine as an X-Y pair
and are also good for almost anything else.

[[email protected]]

On 2007-12-14 (ScottDorsey) said:

>If I had to own only pair for the job it would probably be a
>hypercardioid, just because that gives you a lot more flexibility.
>>AT present locker is some Ev 635's and a SEnnheiser, I think
>>609 for my vocal when gigging. tHis is why I'm trying to
>>budget first for a good pair for the stereo bar and fill in
>>other pieces later. Rebuilding whole mic collection after
>>the big hurricane and really studying my options closely.
>>Also why I value your opinion Scott.
>It sounds like you want a lot of very different microphones for
>very different jobs.
THat's the problem. I"m thinking the rental houses will
have to do for quite a bit here at first, but trying to at
least get a good pair for work that requires more of the
ambient approach. I figure that with the close mic approach
of modern rock country etc. THe sr people can provide most
of what's needed there and I can take a split. HEnce I"m
putting the lion's share of my mic budget right now into the
best and most versatile I can afford for the application.
Outboard processing, mixer, monitoring, snakes, all that's
well taken care of. All that's left is to start rebuilding
mic locker now.

Regards,



Richard webb,
Replace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real
email address.



Great audio is never heard by the average person, but bad
audio is heard by everyone.

[Scott Dorsey]

Mike Rivers > wrote:
>On Dec 14, 1:48 pm, wrote:
>
>> Hence was thinking about the Neumanns mentioned in subject
>> line, but there again I'm not familiar with those for main
>> stereo pair use.
>
>Oh, is THAT what you want this new mic purchase for? The KSM105 is
>designed for close work, so it's quite inappropriate as an X-Y stereo
>pair. The Sennheiser 441 might work, but that's usually not where it's
>best.

Precisely.

>Go for KM84s if you can find them. They'll work fine as an X-Y pair
>and are also good for almost anything else.

Unfortunately the used prices on them have gone berserk. I don't know
why... they are fine enough microphones, and they're better than the
KM184... but still....
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Ty Ford]

On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 11:02:45 -0500, wrote
(in article >):

>
> On 2007-12-14 said:
> >> like to eventually get something real nice for stereo main
> >> pair such as Scheops (spelling) or JOsephsons maybe, but
> >> right now I have to think versatility.
> >Richard, for your main pair something that's a little less expensive
> >than the Schoeps or Josephsons and very close in performance is the
> >AKG C480B with a hypercardioid head. I have a pair and a selection
> >of the capsules (omni, cardioid and hypercardioid) and they have
> >served me well.
> Was leaning toward just saying the heck with it and going
> for a pair of Josephson c4's. I've heard of those you
> mention but never encountered them. A friend back in the
> midwest had a pair of the jOsephsons and I really liked
> them, but will definitely give that some consideration.
> Budget is finite after all <g>.
> HOw 'bout it MR. Ford? Any thoughts on this topic? I know
> I downloaded a bunch of your reviews of different mics back
> when I could access your site by ftp but can't get there in
> that manner these days.
> I know the JOsephsons will be sure to impress those
> producers who know a bit thanks to the name recognition, but
> AKG isn't considered in the same light as Behringer et al so
> it's definitely on the short list. Thanks MIke!

Sorry Richard,

I got lost in all the blue type.

Not by FTP you say? Hmm well just take the link to my OnLine archive.
http://tinyurl.com/d738j

Mr. Josephson makes mics people seem to like. I haven't heard his. I have
heard (and own) the Schoeps. If he wants to send me a pair of hypers for
comparison, I'll give 'em a listen.

Regards,

Ty Ford


--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

[5016]

On Dec 14, 5:55 pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> Mike Rivers > wrote:
>
> >On Dec 14, 1:48 pm, wrote:
>
> >> Hence was thinking about the Neumanns mentioned in subject
> >> line, but there again I'm not familiar with those for main
> >> stereo pair use.
>
> >Oh, is THAT what you want this new mic purchase for? The KSM105 is
> >designed for close work, so it's quite inappropriate as an X-Y stereo
> >pair. The Sennheiser 441 might work, but that's usually not where it's
> >best.
>
> Precisely.
>
> >Go for KM84s if you can find them. They'll work fine as an X-Y pair
> >and are also good for almost anything else.
>
> Unfortunately the used prices on them have gone berserk. I don't know
> why... they are fine enough microphones, and they're better than the
> KM184... but still....

How much better are KM84's than KM184's? The KM84s are going for $1000
(very) used right now, whereas KM184s are $800 new. The 84s are close
to Schoeps cost now.

> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Peter Larsen[_2_]]

wrote:

> All that's left is to start rebuilding mic locker now.

An email is en route to you, hoping that I finally got your email address
right.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Peter Larsen[_2_]]

5016 wrote:

> How much better are KM84's than KM184's? The KM84s are going for $1000
> (very) used right now, whereas KM184s are $800 new. The 84s are close
> to Schoeps cost now.

A KM184 pair ebayed for USD 3500 recently. For that reason I sent an email
to Neumann and suggested a re-issue. See below ...


Kind regards

Peter Larsen


Sehr geehrter Herr Larsen,

Die Unterschiede zwischen dem KM 184 und dem KM 84 sind nach unseren
Erfahrungen eher klein. Es ist daher nicht geplant, die alten KM 84 noch
einmal aufzulegen.
Haben Sie die KM 184 schon einmal getestet?

Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Georg Neumann GmbH, Berlin
Jürgen Breitlow
Mikrophonentwicklung

"Peter Larsen" >
14.11.2007 16:25 >
cc
SubjectEngineering Contact

Hi,

ich bedaure sehr das ich nicht ein par neue km 84 anschaffen kann, die
werden generell empfohlen as besser als km 184 und die antiquarische preise
sind unsinn. Schon davon folgt das es ein market gibt. Bitte die lineare
Diskant wieder wahlbar machen.

Peter Larsen

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 14, 10:15 pm, 5016 > wrote:

> How much better are KM84's than KM184's? The KM84s are going for $1000
> (very) used right now, whereas KM184s are $800 new.

Oh, about $300 better. That makes it a bargain. ;) It's really
impossible to quantize the "betterness" of one good mic over another.

They sound enough different that you should choose the one that works
best for your applications, though I can't think of any place where
I'd use a KM184 and not use a KM84 unless I ran out of KM84s.

> The 84s are close to Schoeps cost now.

And they sound different. If you feel more confident buying a new mic
than a used one (repairs can be expensive, and abuse is more common
now since there are more users today than there were when KM84s were
new) then go with a Schoeps. When buying a mic of this quality, you
really can't go wrong.

[Scott Dorsey]

Ty Ford > wrote:
>Mr. Josephson makes mics people seem to like. I haven't heard his. I have
>heard (and own) the Schoeps. If he wants to send me a pair of hypers for
>comparison, I'll give 'em a listen.

Call Fletcher and ask for a pair of the C4s. They're pretty good, though
not as clean as the Schoeps. Cardioid only.

The Series Six microphones are as clean as the Schoeps, and available with
a hypercardioid capsule, but there was a several-year wait for them the
last time I looked. The only Series Six mike available readily is the 617
with a nickel-diaphragm omni capsule (which is really stunning, but omni).
I like it more than the Schoeps omni, but maybe because I spent so long
using B&K measurement omnis.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

5016 > wrote:
>
>How much better are KM84's than KM184's? The KM84s are going for $1000
>(very) used right now, whereas KM184s are $800 new. The 84s are close
>to Schoeps cost now.

The KM84 is a LOT better than the KM184. Still, not in the same league
as the Schoeps.

The KM140 is a little cleaner than the KM184, but again more money.

I have to say I'd pick the $500 Josephson C4 or AT 4051 over the KM184.

Look for used Schoeps gear...
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[[email protected]]

On 2007-12-15 said:
>> All that's left is to start rebuilding mic locker now.
>An email is en route to you, hoping that I finally got your email
>address right.
Saw that this morning. Don't know if a post I made to the
group actually was echoed outside bellsouth's server or not,
but after thinking over my priorities a good farfield stereo
pair is my first priority.

Understand you have a 441 in the drawer you don't use much.
I don't paypal etc. LET's talk more after the holidays if
you're still interested in moving it however.

Regards,



Richard webb,
Replace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real
email address.

[[email protected]]

On 2007-12-15 (ScottDorsey) said:
>>Mr. Josephson makes mics people seem to like. I haven't heard his.
>>I have heard (and own) the Schoeps. If he wants to send me a pair
>>of hypers for comparison, I'll give 'em a listen.
>Call Fletcher and ask for a pair of the C4s. They're pretty good,
>though not as clean as the Schoeps. Cardioid only.
>The Series Six microphones are as clean as the Schoeps, and
>available with a hypercardioid capsule, but there was a
>several-year wait for them the last time I looked. The only Series
>Six mike available readily is the 617 with a nickel-diaphragm omni
>capsule (which is really stunning, but omni). I like it more than
>the Schoeps omni, but maybe because I spent so long using B&K
>measurement omnis. --scott
The JOsephosons are still strong contenders. AS I said, a
friend had a pair and I really liked the results we got with
them on a couple of occasions.




Richard webb,
Replace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real
email address.

[Peter Larsen[_2_]]

wrote:

> On 2007-12-15 said:

> >> All that's left is to start rebuilding mic locker now.
> >An email is en route to you, hoping that I finally got your email
> >address right.

> Saw that this morning. Don't know if a post I made to the
> group actually was echoed outside bellsouth's server or not,
> but after thinking over my priorities a good farfield stereo
> pair is my first priority.

Understood, presently I think you should get that main pair good. I like my
AKG ck452's a lot, but I like it better when I get to record with Schoeps
sub-cardioids. Email reply to the rest en route.

> Richard webb,


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

> Replace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real
> email address.

[Scott Dorsey]

> wrote:
>Saw that this morning. Don't know if a post I made to the
>group actually was echoed outside bellsouth's server or not,
>but after thinking over my priorities a good farfield stereo
>pair is my first priority.

Save up. Buy the Schoeps, the B&K, the Sennheiser MKH-series.
Get a hypercardioid if you can, a cardioid if you can't.

>Understand you have a 441 in the drawer you don't use much.
>I don't paypal etc. LET's talk more after the holidays if
>you're still interested in moving it however.

The 441 is a marvelous microphone but it isn't what you want
for a far field stereo pair.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Peter Larsen[_2_]]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

> > wrote:

>> Saw that this morning. Don't know if a post I made to the
>> group actually was echoed outside bellsouth's server or not,
>> but after thinking over my priorities a good farfield stereo
>> pair is my first priority.

> Save up. Buy the Schoeps, the B&K, the Sennheiser MKH-series.
> Get a hypercardioid if you can, a cardioid if you can't.

I second that notion.

>> Understand you have a 441 in the drawer you don't use much.
>> I don't paypal etc. LET's talk more after the holidays if
>> you're still interested in moving it however.

> The 441 is a marvelous microphone but it isn't what you want
> for a far field stereo pair.

Not anymore, it was when an amateur could get it for DKK 1400 and had to pay
DKK 6000 for the MKH 406, but it runs out of detail when used as main pair
compared to what you get from a quality condenser. And it is scaringly heavy
on a tall stand, especially as a pair. Today it is a special tool that
requires that you have "its kind" of special jobs: a grand, a drumkit, brass
or singing wimmen that you do not need or want to get too close to.

> --scott


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[5016]

On Dec 15, 7:48 am, Mike Rivers > wrote:
> On Dec 14, 10:15 pm, 5016 > wrote:
>
> > How much better are KM84's than KM184's? The KM84s are going for $1000
> > (very) used right now, whereas KM184s are $800 new.
>
> Oh, about $300 better. That makes it a bargain. ;) It's really
> impossible to quantize the "betterness" of one good mic over another.
>
> They sound enough different that you should choose the one that works
> best for your applications, though I can't think of any place where
> I'd use a KM184 and not use a KM84 unless I ran out of KM84s.
>
> > The 84s are close to Schoeps cost now.
>
> And they sound different. If you feel more confident buying a new mic
> than a used one (repairs can be expensive, and abuse is more common
> now since there are more users today than there were when KM84s were
> new) then go with a Schoeps. When buying a mic of this quality, you
> really can't go wrong.

I have a pair of Schoeps cardioids which I really like. I was looking
for another single to use mainly for hihat because I'm very happy with
the Schoeps in all of the paired situations that I use them in. I paid
$1800 for the pair of Schoeps new only a short time ago and have
difficulty paying $1000 for a used single km84 even though the dollar
has collapsed. I think that I'll pick up one of the Josephson's that
Scott recommended. I normally end up muting the hihat track anyway!