Acoustic Treatment - The cheap and dirty way?

[Filthy Democrat's Mangina]

Hi all;

I have a recording setup in my basement with all the goodies except
acoustic treatments. I have someone coming in to do some demo work.
We will be recrding everything (vocals, drums, guitars, bass). My
basement is concrete walls with plastic wrapped insulation halfway
down and concrete floor (no carpet), wood joist and plywood floorboard
on top (8ft high) complete with furnace ductwork. The section of the
basement where I will be doing the work is open to the rest of the
basement which is unfinished. I will probably be using an RE-20 for
the vocal work or possibly a Studio Projects C1 or an AKG C4000B
depending on what works. My drums are already set up with all the
mics in place using Rode NT5s as overheads, D112 kick, SM57
snare...etc. etc.

My questions are:

1. What is the cheapest way to acoustically treat the room? Thick
Blankets? Cubicle dividers?
2. Where should I be treating it? Ceiling? Carpet on the floor?
Walls?
3. What can I make a vocal booth out of? Just blankets? How big
should it be? Should I just consider doing the vocals in another room
that's carpeted and furnished?
4. Should I be dividing the recording section from the rest of the
basement?

I don't have any experience with "listening" to a room for problems.
Is there any articles I can read about this? Hopefully I have
provided enough info for you guys to guve me some advice. Ask more
questions if you need to. I am looking to do this as cheaply as
possible. I may have access to some free cubicle walls from my office
(although I would like to avoid making my fun music space look like my
workplace, I am willing to comprimise for sound purposes).

Thanks;
Steve

[GregS[_3_]]

In article >, "Filthy Democrat's Mangina" > wrote:
>Hi all;
>
>I have a recording setup in my basement with all the goodies except
>acoustic treatments. I have someone coming in to do some demo work.
>We will be recrding everything (vocals, drums, guitars, bass). My
>basement is concrete walls with plastic wrapped insulation halfway
>down and concrete floor (no carpet), wood joist and plywood floorboard
>on top (8ft high) complete with furnace ductwork. The section of the
>basement where I will be doing the work is open to the rest of the
>basement which is unfinished. I will probably be using an RE-20 for
>the vocal work or possibly a Studio Projects C1 or an AKG C4000B
>depending on what works. My drums are already set up with all the
>mics in place using Rode NT5s as overheads, D112 kick, SM57
>snare...etc. etc.
>
>My questions are:
>
>1. What is the cheapest way to acoustically treat the room? Thick
>Blankets? Cubicle dividers?
>2. Where should I be treating it? Ceiling? Carpet on the floor?
>Walls?
>3. What can I make a vocal booth out of? Just blankets? How big
>should it be? Should I just consider doing the vocals in another room
>that's carpeted and furnished?
>4. Should I be dividing the recording section from the rest of the
>basement?
>
>I don't have any experience with "listening" to a room for problems.
>Is there any articles I can read about this? Hopefully I have
>provided enough info for you guys to guve me some advice. Ask more
>questions if you need to. I am looking to do this as cheaply as
>possible. I may have access to some free cubicle walls from my office
>(although I would like to avoid making my fun music space look like my
>workplace, I am willing to comprimise for sound purposes).
>
>Thanks;
>Steve

Just a couple comments. If the plastic wrap is soft polyethelene, it
may be fine as-is. You will have to work on the bass. I would add some traps
in the corners. There has benn much discussion lately about treatments. i suggest reading
up on current Usenet posts.

greg

[Filthy Democrat's Mangina]

Sorry for the nickname. A friend changed my nickname to post
something somewhere else and I forgot to change it back before I
posted that message.

The post is not a troll.

Steve

On Dec 12, 9:54 am, "Filthy Democrat's Mangina" >
wrote:
> Hi all;
>
> I have a recording setup in my basement with all the goodies except
> acoustic treatments. I have someone coming in to do some demo work.
> We will be recrding everything (vocals, drums, guitars, bass). My
> basement is concrete walls with plastic wrapped insulation halfway
> down and concrete floor (no carpet), wood joist and plywood floorboard
> on top (8ft high) complete with furnace ductwork. The section of the
> basement where I will be doing the work is open to the rest of the
> basement which is unfinished. I will probably be using an RE-20 for
> the vocal work or possibly a Studio Projects C1 or an AKG C4000B
> depending on what works. My drums are already set up with all the
> mics in place using Rode NT5s as overheads, D112 kick, SM57
> snare...etc. etc.
>
> My questions are:
>
> 1. What is the cheapest way to acoustically treat the room? Thick
> Blankets? Cubicle dividers?
> 2. Where should I be treating it? Ceiling? Carpet on the floor?
> Walls?
> 3. What can I make a vocal booth out of? Just blankets? How big
> should it be? Should I just consider doing the vocals in another room
> that's carpeted and furnished?
> 4. Should I be dividing the recording section from the rest of the
> basement?
>
> I don't have any experience with "listening" to a room for problems.
> Is there any articles I can read about this? Hopefully I have
> provided enough info for you guys to guve me some advice. Ask more
> questions if you need to. I am looking to do this as cheaply as
> possible. I may have access to some free cubicle walls from my office
> (although I would like to avoid making my fun music space look like my
> workplace, I am willing to comprimise for sound purposes).
>
> Thanks;
> Steve

[Arny Krueger]

"Filthy Democrat's Mangina" > wrote in
message

> Hi all;
>
> I have a recording setup in my basement with all the
> goodies except acoustic treatments. I have someone
> coming in to do some demo work. We will be recrding
> everything (vocals, drums, guitars, bass). My basement
> is concrete walls with plastic wrapped insulation halfway
> down and concrete floor (no carpet), wood joist and
> plywood floorboard on top (8ft high) complete with
> furnace ductwork.

IME plastic wrapped insulation can be fairly effective as a sound absorbant.
Not optimal, but that's probably more due to the low density of the
insulation than the plastic.

> The section of the basement where I
> will be doing the work is open to the rest of the
> basement which is unfinished. I will probably be using
> an RE-20 for the vocal work or possibly a Studio Projects
> C1 or an AKG C4000B depending on what works. My drums
> are already set up with all the mics in place using Rode
> NT5s as overheads, D112 kick, SM57 snare...etc. etc.
>
> My questions are:
>
> 1. What is the cheapest way to acoustically treat the
> room? Thick Blankets? Cubicle dividers?

Good acoustical treatment is composted of absorbtion, diffusion and
reflection. Therefore there's no one answer. Reflection is the generally
the cheapest, followed by absorbtion. Diffusion is generally the most
expensive. But ideally you need all 3.

Reflection comes almost free - you have to have walls, floor and ceiling,
right? ;-)

The cheapest absorbtion is probably drop-in acoustical ceiling tile,
followed by carpeting. Putting some acoustic density insulation spaced above
the ceiling, is a cheap enhancement. Then comes cheap carpeting.

> 2. Where should I be treating it? Ceiling? Carpet on
> the floor? Walls?

Yes, but acoustic treatments work best when they aren't wall-to-wall, or
floor-to-ceiling. Mixing types of treatments so that there aren't unbroken
areas of any particular type is best.

A rough goal is to cover something like half the surface area of the room.

> 3. What can I make a vocal booth out of? Just blankets?
> How big should it be? Should I just consider doing the
> vocals in another room that's carpeted and furnished?

If you want a dead room for vocals, you need more than carpeting and
furnishing.

> 4. Should I be dividing the recording section from the
> rest of the basement?

Depends how noisy your recording operation is.

[Ethan Winer]

Steve,

> 1. What is the cheapest way to acoustically treat the room? ... Is there
> any articles I can read about this?

Room treatment is a deep subject, and a complete answer requires far more
than will fit into a single reply here. So here's the short version. All
rooms need:

* Broadband (not tuned) bass traps straddling as many corners as you can
manage, including the wall-ceiling corners. More bass traps on the rear wall
behind helps even further. You simply cannot have too much bass trapping.
Real bass trapping, that is - thin foam and thin fiberglass don't work to a
low enough frequency.

* Mid/high frequency absorption at the first reflection points on the side
walls and ceiling.

* Some additional amount of mid/high absorption and/or diffusion on any
large areas of bare parallel surfaces, such as opposing walls or the ceiling
if the floor is reflective. Diffusion on the rear wall behind you is also
useful in larger rooms.

For the complete story see my Acoustics FAQ:

www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

There's a lot of additional non-sales technical information on my company's
site - articles, videos, test tones and other downloads - here:

www.realtraps.com

--Ethan

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 12, 9:54 am, "Filthy Democrat's Mangina" >
wrote:

> 1. What is the cheapest way to acoustically treat the room?

Knock down the walls.

Really, there's a whole lot to acoustic treatment. While there are
inexpensive materials that you can use that will save you money over
commercial pre-fab treatments, you really need to study out the
problems and work out what needs to be done. Then figure out how to do
it within your budget, if that's even possible.

You asked about a vocal booth and a separate recording and control
areas. These require good isolation in order to be effective,
otherwise you might as well not bother. But you don't want to just put
the vocalist in a closet or it'll sound like someone singing in a
closet. Likewise with a bathroom.

[William Sommerwerck]

>> 1. What is the cheapest way to acoustically treat the room?

> Knock down the walls.

Actually, you can approximate that by opening the windows. The reduction in
room coloration is immediately noticeable. (The increase in complaints from
neighbors is also likely to be quickly noticed.)

[Mark]

On Dec 12, 5:06 pm, "William Sommerwerck" >
wrote:
> >> 1. What is the cheapest way to acoustically treat the room?
> > Knock down the walls.
>
> Actually, you can approximate that by opening the windows. The reduction in
> room coloration is immediately noticeable. (The increase in complaints from
> neighbors is also likely to be quickly noticed.)

to the op.

besides the sound ...think about fire saftey as well..

bad things have happened before

Mark