Dumbest Question of the Week (not much about audio)

[Mike Rivers]

This one is so dumb I didn't even want to put it in the subject
header.

My workaday computer's disk drive was getting funky (slow, errors now
and then) so I decided that since today it snowed for the first time
this season, it would be a good day to fuss with the computer. I've
never done anything to the insides of a computer that didn't take me
all day to get back to at least where I started, and this day was no
different.

I used Maxtor's "clone my disk" utility to copy my old disk to the new
disk, and as I suspected, a few things didn't come through. There were
some Windows system files missing. I ran SFC, and after that it
stopped complaining. Everything seems to be OK except that some
graphics in Firefox are screwy. But that isn't what I came here to
talk to you about today.

I figured that since I was going to open up the computer, it was high
time I had a DVD writer here, so I picked one up and, after the hard
drive settled down, installed it, replacing the read-only CD drive
that was in there (I'm not that far behind - the other drive is a CD
writer). The DVD writer came with a scaled down Nero 7 disk, but I
balked at installing it. I have Nero 5 now, I like it (of course it
doesn't recognize the new drive at all), and this new version says I
have to uninstall my old version of Nero - I can't have both.

So here's the dumb question. First the part that makes it harder to
answer. This computer is running Windows 2000, not XP, not Linux, not
Leopold or whatever the new Mac OS is called.

and now . . . . . .

How do I write files to a DVD? Is there a simple, non-bloated utility
that will do it? I did the requisite Google search and didn't turn up
any attractive prospects, just the usual suspects.

[D C[_2_]]

Mike Rivers wrote:

> not Leopold or whatever the new Mac OS is called.

Leopard.

[jwvm]

On Dec 5, 9:04 pm, Mike Rivers > wrote:

<snip>

>
> How do I write files to a DVD? Is there a simple, non-bloated utility
> that will do it? I did the requisite Google search and didn't turn up
> any attractive prospects, just the usual suspects.

The latest version of Nero should know how to burn CDs on your old
burner but you might try this software first:

http://www.nonags.com/software.asp?ID=176

The price is right and nonags gave it 6/6 duckies. What more could you
want!! :-)

[jakdedert]

Mike Rivers wrote:
> This one is so dumb I didn't even want to put it in the subject
> header.
>
> My workaday computer's disk drive was getting funky (slow, errors now
> and then) so I decided that since today it snowed for the first time
> this season, it would be a good day to fuss with the computer. I've
> never done anything to the insides of a computer that didn't take me
> all day to get back to at least where I started, and this day was no
> different.
>
> I used Maxtor's "clone my disk" utility to copy my old disk to the new
> disk, and as I suspected, a few things didn't come through. There were
> some Windows system files missing. I ran SFC, and after that it
> stopped complaining. Everything seems to be OK except that some
> graphics in Firefox are screwy. But that isn't what I came here to
> talk to you about today.
>
> I figured that since I was going to open up the computer, it was high
> time I had a DVD writer here, so I picked one up and, after the hard
> drive settled down, installed it, replacing the read-only CD drive
> that was in there (I'm not that far behind - the other drive is a CD
> writer). The DVD writer came with a scaled down Nero 7 disk, but I
> balked at installing it. I have Nero 5 now, I like it (of course it
> doesn't recognize the new drive at all), and this new version says I
> have to uninstall my old version of Nero - I can't have both.
>
> So here's the dumb question. First the part that makes it harder to
> answer. This computer is running Windows 2000, not XP, not Linux, not
> Leopold or whatever the new Mac OS is called.
>
> and now . . . . . .
>
> How do I write files to a DVD? Is there a simple, non-bloated utility
> that will do it? I did the requisite Google search and didn't turn up
> any attractive prospects, just the usual suspects.

I think it's a good thing you didn't install the Nero 7. It probably is
a stripped down version, with limited capability. At least that's what
I got with my burner...very limited capability. Every time I wanted to
do something, I'd get a message saying I could only do it with the full
retail release.

OTOH, what's wrong with Nero 5? Does it not cover DVD?

Anyhow, I downloaded something called 'Cute DVD Burner' which works
okay.....

jak

[Richard Crowley]

"Mike Rivers" wrote ...
> How do I write files to a DVD? Is there a simple, non-bloated utility
> that will do it? I did the requisite Google search and didn't turn up
> any attractive prospects, just the usual suspects.

I've been using www.cheetahburner.com for many years. It does
all the different kinds of tasks I want for burning (and ripping)
CD and DVD discs. You can try it for free (full-featured for 30
days) and the price seems right to me at $25.

But the CDBurnerXP that "jwvm" suggested might be even
better (certainly the price is!)

However, for writing DVDR discs, I use (free) DVDdecrypter
(the same one whose developer was bullied by Macrovision
into halting updates and shutting down his website, etc.)

[Laurence Payne]

On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 18:04:26 -0800 (PST), Mike Rivers
> wrote:

Use the provided Nero 7. It's actually the full version, requiring
only a different registration number to unlock the full features. If
you need them, buy them. But maybe you don't. The lite version
looks like a toy, but it accepts a list of files and effeciently burns
a data CD, audio CD or various formats of DVD. What else do you need?

[Arny Krueger]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message


> How do I write files to a DVD?

Pertty much like you write files to a CD.

Nero has been around a long time. I seem to recally CD-only versions of it.

> Is there a simple, non-bloated utility that will do it?

Nero will do the many different jobs that the simple act of disc burning has
evolved into.

Install Nero 5, 6 or 7. I think you said Nero 7 came with the drive.

The user entry point into Nero is a little menuing program called
"Smartstart". At the top of the Smartstart screen is the CD/DVD drop down
menu. Select the media you wish your project to to use, CD or DVD.

Next pick the category your project fits into - data, audio, video, or
backup. Exactly which categories of projects you have available will depend
on whether you have a basic or advanced version of Nero.

Once you pick a project category and subcategory, Nero brings up a window
that follows the format of one of Microsoft's wizards. You fill out each
window and then press the next button, which will only be unshaded if you've
provided the basic information that each window requires. Usually, the first
window is a file add window.

Click the Add button which brings up a file browser window that you can use
to select files for your project. In the file browser window navigate your
computer so that you can highlight (single click) the files you want to add
to your project. At any time you can press the Add button to add the
selected files to your project. You can navigate to as many folders and
discs as you need to to assemble your project. Just be sure to add all the
files you want from the current folder before you navigate to the next
folder.

When you are done, press the Next button which moves you to the wizard's
next window. Fill out the window(s) that the wizard runs through and you'll
quickly come to a window with a Burn button.

Make sure that your media is in the correct optical drive if you have more
than one drive, and press the Burn button.

Your disc should be burned shortly. ;-)

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 5, 9:55 pm, jakdedert > wrote:

> OTOH, what's wrong with Nero 5? Does it not cover DVD?

Nope. I went through this about a year and a half ago when I was
looking for a new laptop computer. I had purchased one (Sony) that had
a DVD burner, but didn't come with any software for DVD burning - lots
for playing, however. I tried my Nero with it and it didn't even know
about the drive. Got the latest (and last) drive list for it and it
still didn't recognize the drive. So I downloaded the trial version of
Nero (might have been 6 at the time) and it worked, but it was so
messy and complicated I didn't want to use it. I ended up returning
the computer, and ultimately bought one with a DVD player but not
writer, so I've been avoiding the issue since then.

I haven't even got this one to play a DVD yet though. It'll display
files OK, but I have Windows Media Player 9 and Divx on this computer
and neither one seems to recognize that there's a DVD with video in
the drive. In fact, my Media Player doesn't even have DVD under the
Play menu. It's like it doesn't have the right driver. But as far as I
can tell from the Samsung web site, the only driver is the Microsoft
one, and that's what it's using.

> Anyhow, I downloaded something called 'Cute DVD Burner' which works
> okay.....

I'll check it out, and see what Arny has to say when I get further
down in the messages. He usually knows about these things.

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 6, 5:44 am, Laurence Payne <NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com>
wrote:

> The lite version [Nero 7]
> looks like a toy, but it accepts a list of files and effeciently burns
> a data CD, audio CD or various formats of DVD. What else do you need?

Confidence that it won't fill my computer with crap that doesn't go
away if I un-install it. If it has all the features I don't need, it's
bloated. I may break down and load it if nothing else tickles my
fancy. At least I can see if the drive works. I have far more disk
space that I need on this computer, having replaced a half empty 30 GB
drive with a 160 GB one, but I don't want something that I have to
search through in order to turn off "automatic" features that take up
memory and slow other things down.

[Laurence Payne]

On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 04:16:09 -0800 (PST), Mike Rivers
> wrote:

>> looks like a toy, but it accepts a list of files and effeciently burns
>> a data CD, audio CD or various formats of DVD. What else do you need?
>
>Confidence that it won't fill my computer with crap that doesn't go
>away if I un-install it. If it has all the features I don't need, it's
>bloated. I may break down and load it if nothing else tickles my
>fancy. At least I can see if the drive works. I have far more disk
>space that I need on this computer, having replaced a half empty 30 GB
>drive with a 160 GB one, but I don't want something that I have to
>search through in order to turn off "automatic" features that take up
>memory and slow other things down.

The version they give away with a drive won't. Check W2K
compatibility though. That os was rather a long time ago.

[Brent Lievers]

Mike Rivers > wrote:
> How do I write files to a DVD? Is there a simple, non-bloated utility
> that will do it? I did the requisite Google search and didn't turn up
> any attractive prospects, just the usual suspects.

I've had good luck with InfraRecorder (free and works with Win2000):

http://infrarecorder.sourceforge.net/

HTH,

Brent

[Beauchampy[_2_]]

Mike Rivers wrote:
> This one is so dumb I didn't even want to put it in the subject
> header.
>
> My workaday computer's disk drive was getting funky (slow, errors now
> and then) so I decided that since today it snowed for the first time
> this season, it would be a good day to fuss with the computer. I've
> never done anything to the insides of a computer that didn't take me
> all day to get back to at least where I started, and this day was no
> different.
>
> I used Maxtor's "clone my disk" utility to copy my old disk to the new
> disk, and as I suspected, a few things didn't come through. There were
> some Windows system files missing. I ran SFC, and after that it
> stopped complaining. Everything seems to be OK except that some
> graphics in Firefox are screwy. But that isn't what I came here to
> talk to you about today.
>
> I figured that since I was going to open up the computer, it was high
> time I had a DVD writer here, so I picked one up and, after the hard
> drive settled down, installed it, replacing the read-only CD drive
> that was in there (I'm not that far behind - the other drive is a CD
> writer). The DVD writer came with a scaled down Nero 7 disk, but I
> balked at installing it. I have Nero 5 now, I like it (of course it
> doesn't recognize the new drive at all), and this new version says I
> have to uninstall my old version of Nero - I can't have both.
>
> So here's the dumb question. First the part that makes it harder to
> answer. This computer is running Windows 2000, not XP, not Linux, not
> Leopold or whatever the new Mac OS is called.
>
> and now . . . . . .
>
> How do I write files to a DVD? Is there a simple, non-bloated utility
> that will do it? I did the requisite Google search and didn't turn up
> any attractive prospects, just the usual suspects.

Sorry if this has already been mentioned but I remember back in the day
of Nero 5 the versions that shipped with CD writers would only work with
those make of cd writer. I.e. if you have a version of Nero 5 that came
with a Creative Labs CD writer, it wont recognise a Panasonic DVDRW in
the drop down menu at the top for example.

I think they might have done the same with Nero 6, not sure about 7.

Anyway, your best bet if you don't want to mess around with any freeware
is just to install the provided version of Nero 7, if you're just
burning data and audio you won't need anything more.

Also, do yourself a favour and replace that maxtor disk. Sounds like
it's on the way out and maxtor make notoriously terrible drives anyway.
Also install XP god-damn it, or linux, or just anything else! :)

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 6, 10:29 am, Beauchampy > wrote:

> Sorry if this has already been mentioned but I remember back in the day
> of Nero 5 the versions that shipped with CD writers would only work with
> those make of cd writer.

Normally it didn't matter because you got it with that model CD
writer. The copy I have is actually a retail copy (a Micro Center
special for $15) and it worked with the drive that I had at the time.
The reason I switched to Nero from the Easy CD Creator program that
came with the drive is that I wanted to put track IDs in a long,
continuous program and Nero had a straightforward way to do that. I
use that capability all the time. I now have CD Architect and WaveLab
which also do it, but I REMEMBER how to do it in Nero and have to keep
looking it up with the other programs.

I'd be happy to try Nero 7 if it would let me keep my Nero 5
installed, but it won't. I don't want to load it up and find that it
doesn't have the track split capability. I know, I could un-install it
(I hope) and re-install the old version, but that's a pain. But I know
it's easier for you to say "use something else" than answer what I
asked.

> Also, do yourself a favour and replace that maxtor disk.

The disk I replaced was a Maxtor (about 5 years old, computer on all
the time). The replacement is a Western Digital. But you know that no
matter what brand of hardware someone mentions around here, from
Behringer to Mercedes-Benz, someone will tell you that he heard that
that brand was a problem.

> Also install XP god-damn it, or linux, or just anything else! :)

Windows 2000 doesn't phone home. And I don't want to turn my world
upside down and go with Linux and all of its "always in development"
applications.

No thanks for the help this time. Maybe next time I'll have a question
you can really answer.

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 5, 9:23 pm, jwvm > wrote:

> The latest version of Nero should know how to burn CDs on your old
> burner

I'm sure it will, but it may not have the track splitting capability
of my old version, and I use that extensively. I could do the same
thing in WaveLab or CD Architect (neither of which I had when I got
Nero 5) but I never remember how to do it in those "advanced"
programs. Simple is better for me when I don't need fancy.

> you might try this software first:
> http://www.nonags.com/software.asp?ID=176

I did, and it works just fine. I think it's a keeper. It works very
much like the Nero I have for basic CD/DVD drag-and-drop burning.
Thanks for the tip.

I haven't been able to PLAY a DVD on the computer yet. I'm beginning
to wonder if the hardware is just too old. Did they have DVDs in 2000?
I have Media Player 9 installed, which is the last version that ran
under Win2000. While the Help file makes reference to playing DVDs,
DVD doesn't appear under the Play menu, only CD Audio. Real Player 10
gets a little closer, letting me select the DVD to play, but then
telling me that I can't play it and makes some hardware-like
suggestions like shut down background programs, reduce screen
resolution, reduce the number of colors.

I know that there was a period where having video codecs in hardware
on the card was a hot feature. Maybe they all do now, and that's what
the programs are expecting (and mine doesn't have it). I did update to
the last driver (it's an Intel 810 chipset) but that didn't appear to
make any difference in anything I've tried. Playing a DVD is no big
deal. I have a DVD player and a TV set for that, and it will read data
off a DVD so I can install stuff that comes on DVD.

I guess I should stop messing with it. It only cost $28.

[Arny Krueger]

"Beauchampy" > wrote in message


> Sorry if this has already been mentioned but I remember
> back in the day of Nero 5 the versions that shipped with
> CD writers would only work with those make of cd writer.

Not quite true. OEM copies of software generally work on every brand of CD
writer that has licensed the right to distribute the software.

For example, NEC, Sony and Plextor might license Nero. Then, a wide range
of models from those manufacturers will work with any OEM copy of Nero. An
OEM copy of Nero that you get from a store will generally work on all
licensing brands of CD writer, not just the brand it was sold with.

> I.e. if you have a version of Nero 5 that came with a
> Creative Labs CD writer, it wont recognise a Panasonic
> DVDRW in the drop down menu at the top for example.

Right, but if Sony licensed Nero, then usually the copies of Nero packaged
with either brand of CD writer will work with either brand of CD writer. My
distributor sometimes sells several brands of CD burner in OEM packaging,
but may have only one stack of CD burning software.

I've often tested some OEM software that I got with say some Liteon drives,
against some unfamiliar brands of CD burner and had it work just fine, or
not.

Things can get strange. Companies like Dell may not want to pay for Nero
licenses, but instead distribute say Sonic's burning software. However they
may really like the performance of a certain NEC model burner. All of a
sudden, you start seeing Dell computers with CD writers with some strange
brand, but under the covers, and even above the covers they look an awful
lot like NECs. ;-) Note that most CD drives are either unbranded, or are
branded with silk screened printing or more modern equivalent.

[Laurence Payne]

On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 10:06:59 -0800 (PST), Mike Rivers
> wrote:

>I know that there was a period where having video codecs in hardware
>on the card was a hot feature. Maybe they all do now, and that's what
>the programs are expecting (and mine doesn't have it). I did update to
>the last driver (it's an Intel 810 chipset) but that didn't appear to
>make any difference in anything I've tried. Playing a DVD is no big
>deal. I have a DVD player and a TV set for that, and it will read data
>off a DVD so I can install stuff that comes on DVD.

What sort of DVD are you trying to play? A video DVD? Maybe you just
don't have the codec. They're always in software these days. (OK,
"always" is a dangerous word. But they're software :-)

[Laurence Payne]

On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 10:06:59 -0800 (PST), Mike Rivers
> wrote:

>I'm sure it will, but it may not have the track splitting capability
>of my old version, and I use that extensively. I could do the same
>thing in WaveLab or CD Architect (neither of which I had when I got
>Nero 5) but I never remember how to do it in those "advanced"
>programs. Simple is better for me when I don't need fancy.

In Wavelab, you drop a marker (Track Splice type) on the waveform
display. I can't imagine it's any easier in Nero. Now you're a
software expert, it surely isn't a problem? :-)

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 6, 1:17 pm, Laurence Payne <NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com>
wrote:

> What sort of DVD are you trying to play? A video DVD? Maybe you just
> don't have the codec. They're always in software these days.

That's what I figured. I was trying to play a few product demo DVDs,
and Ethan Winer's TeleVision DVD. I don't have any commercial movie
DVDs. I have all sorts of codecs loaded here, but still every once in
a while someone sends me to a link of a video that won't play. But
with this new setup (playing real disks) I can see folders on the
disk, and files in them. The two top level folders are:
\AUDIO_TS
\VIDEO_TS

The VIDEO_TS folder has
VIDEO_TS.BUP
VIDEO_TS.IFO
VIDEO_TS.VOB
VTS_01_0.BUP
VTS_01_0.IFO
VTS_01_0.VOB
... etc

[Richard Crowley]

"Mike Rivers" wrote ...
> I haven't even got this one to play a DVD yet though. It'll display
> files OK, but I have Windows Media Player 9 and Divx on this computer
> and neither one seems to recognize that there's a DVD with video in
> the drive. In fact, my Media Player doesn't even have DVD under the
> Play menu. It's like it doesn't have the right driver. But as far as I
> can tell from the Samsung web site, the only driver is the Microsoft
> one, and that's what it's using.

For a long time (and still to this day?) the drivers/codecs required to
play DVD were a separate item (extra $$) because of licensing $$.
Nobody, not even Microsoft, can distribute them for free.

I've just side-stepped the whole DVD issue with both my office and
personal notebook PCs (both of which have broken DVD write
functionality.) I just use an external USB2 drive enclosure ($25)
with a nice Lite-On DVD-RW drive in it ($30). Works like a champ
and faster than the internal drives(!)

[Richard Crowley]

"Mike Rivers" wrote ...
> Laurence Payne wrote:
>> What sort of DVD are you trying to play? A video DVD? Maybe you just
>> don't have the codec. They're always in software these days.
>
> That's what I figured. I was trying to play a few product demo DVDs,
> and Ethan Winer's TeleVision DVD. I don't have any commercial movie
> DVDs. I have all sorts of codecs loaded here, but still every once in
> a while someone sends me to a link of a video that won't play. But
> with this new setup (playing real disks) I can see folders on the
> disk, and files in them. The two top level folders are:
> \AUDIO_TS
> \VIDEO_TS
>
> The VIDEO_TS folder has
> VIDEO_TS.BUP
> VIDEO_TS.IFO
> VIDEO_TS.VOB
> VTS_01_0.BUP
> VTS_01_0.IFO
> VTS_01_0.VOB
> ... etc

Yeah, that looks like a conventional DVD video disc.
DVD playback requires extra 3rd party codecs....
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/player/plugins.aspx

[jwvm]

You might want to try VLC (videolan) for playing DVDs (yet another
freebee)

http://www.download.com/VLC-Media-Player/3000-13632_4-10717934.html?tag=lst-1

It will also play many other types of media. The only tricky part is
that you need to click on file and then select open disk and click on
DVD disk.

[Steve King]

"Laurence Payne" <NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 10:06:59 -0800 (PST), Mike Rivers
> > wrote:
>
>>I'm sure it will, but it may not have the track splitting capability
>>of my old version, and I use that extensively. I could do the same
>>thing in WaveLab or CD Architect (neither of which I had when I got
>>Nero 5) but I never remember how to do it in those "advanced"
>>programs. Simple is better for me when I don't need fancy.
>
> In Wavelab, you drop a marker (Track Splice type) on the waveform
> display. I can't imagine it's any easier in Nero. Now you're a
> software expert, it surely isn't a problem? :-)

It works the same in Nero. Mike, I have Nero 6 and it still has the ability
to drop in indexes and/or track marks. Same procedure as on version 5.
Right Click on audio file in project; click on properties, select indexes;
view wave-form & play selection; pop in the track marks, and you're done. I
haven't upgraded to 7 or 8 or whatever's current, because this version so
far does what I need.

Steve King

[Laurence Payne]

On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 13:03:40 -0800 (PST), Mike Rivers
> wrote:

>> What sort of DVD are you trying to play? A video DVD? Maybe you just
>> don't have the codec. They're always in software these days.
>
>That's what I figured. I was trying to play a few product demo DVDs,
>and Ethan Winer's TeleVision DVD. I don't have any commercial movie
>DVDs. I have all sorts of codecs loaded here, but still every once in
>a while someone sends me to a link of a video that won't play. But
>with this new setup (playing real disks) I can see folders on the
>disk, and files in them. The two top level folders are:
>\AUDIO_TS
>\VIDEO_TS
>
>The VIDEO_TS folder has
>VIDEO_TS.BUP
>VIDEO_TS.IFO
>VIDEO_TS.VOB
>VTS_01_0.BUP
>VTS_01_0.IFO
>VTS_01_0.VOB
> ... etc


Yup. That's what a video DVD looks like. The codec used to be
commercial. May be still is. They didn't also give you a DVD player
application with the burner? That would install the codec.

[Laurence Payne]

On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 16:26:44 -0600, "Steve King"
> wrote:

>It works the same in Nero. Mike, I have Nero 6 and it still has the ability
>to drop in indexes and/or track marks. Same procedure as on version 5.
>Right Click on audio file in project; click on properties, select indexes;
>view wave-form & play selection; pop in the track marks, and you're done. I
>haven't upgraded to 7 or 8 or whatever's current, because this version so
>far does what I need.

It rather depends on how MUCH of Nero Mike's been given with his
burner. He may only have a licence for the most basic level. But
no problem. He's got Wavelab. A slight attitude re-jig and he's good
to go.

[Arny Krueger]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message

> On Dec 6, 1:17 pm, Laurence Payne
> <NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
>
>> What sort of DVD are you trying to play? A video DVD?
>> Maybe you just don't have the codec. They're always in
>> software these days.
>
> That's what I figured. I was trying to play a few product
> demo DVDs, and Ethan Winer's TeleVision DVD. I don't have
> any commercial movie DVDs. I have all sorts of codecs
> loaded here, but still every once in a while someone
> sends me to a link of a video that won't play. But with
> this new setup (playing real disks) I can see folders on
> the disk, and files in them. The two top level folders
> are: \AUDIO_TS \VIDEO_TS
>
> The VIDEO_TS folder has
> VIDEO_TS.BUP
> VIDEO_TS.IFO
> VIDEO_TS.VOB
> VTS_01_0.BUP
> VTS_01_0.IFO
> VTS_01_0.VOB

That looks like a normal DVD. Unlike audio CDs, video DVDs contain regular
data files and file structures.

Here's a free DVD decoder package that I just tested this afternoon:

http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=5326

It makes Windows Media Player work a lot like a DVD player.

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 6, 4:42 pm, jwvm > wrote:
> You might want to try VLC (videolan) for playing DVDs (yet another
> freebee)

VLC gets a little more action than the other players. It seems to
respond to menu selections and the time indicator moves across the
screen but the video screen is blank. No audio either.

It probably needs codecs that I don't have.

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 6, 7:07 pm, Laurence Payne <NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com>
wrote:
> They didn't also give you a DVD player
> application with the burner? That would install the codec.

It's an OEM drive. Maybe there's something on the Nero disk but I've
already decided that I don't want to fool with that one.

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 6, 5:26 pm, "Steve King"
> wrote:

I have Nero 6 and it still has the ability
> to drop in indexes and/or track marks. Same procedure as on version 5.
> Right Click on audio file in project; click on properties, select indexes;
> view wave-form & play selection; pop in the track marks, and you're done.

You never can tell what they left out in the "Essentials" version
until you try it, or ask someone else who needs the same function and
discovered that it's not there.
I
> haven't upgraded to 7 or 8 or whatever's current, because this version so
> far does what I need.

So far, Version 5 has all I need. Until I got the DVD drive, that is.
However, I think I'm set now for writing a data DVD, and that's all
I'm after, so far. Playing DVDs is not essential, it's just something
that I thought it should do, so I tried it, and it didn't.

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 6, 7:51 pm, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> Here's a free DVD decoder package that I just tested this afternoon:
> http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=5326
> It makes Windows Media Player work a lot like a DVD player.

Looks like a good possibility. There's more to this than meets the
eye, though. I see it says to uninstall any codecs you may have
installed before installing this package. I know I've installed some
codecs in the past (to get downloaded video files to play) so I guess
my first job is to try to find those and uninstall them. I think they
were installed with a "wizard" so there should be an uninstall for
them but I don't feel like looking for it tonight.

The author puts it right on the line: "Codecs have always been a big
problem for the computer users. That's because there has never been a
100% viable working solution available for the average computer
user." Nothing is ever simple if you have some idea of what your'e
doing. I suspect that the reason why I can play DVDs in my laptop is
because that came with a DVD drive installed, and there's a DVD player
(in addition to Windows Media Player).

Anyway, thanks for the lead. I'll put some time into it tomorrow.

[D C[_2_]]

Mike Rivers wrote:

> Anyway, thanks for the lead. I'll put some time into it tomorrow.

When I grow up, I want to have Windows computers.

[Laurence Payne]

On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 18:25:30 -0800 (PST), Mike Rivers
> wrote:

>> They didn't also give you a DVD player
>> application with the burner? That would install the codec.
>
>It's an OEM drive. Maybe there's something on the Nero disk but I've
>already decided that I don't want to fool with that one.

You may be shutting your mind to the simplest solution. But please
yourself :-)

[Richard Crowley]

"Laurence Payne" wrote ...
> Mike Rivers wrote:
>>> They didn't also give you a DVD player
>>> application with the burner? That would install the codec.
>>
>>It's an OEM drive. Maybe there's something on the Nero disk but I've
>>already decided that I don't want to fool with that one.
>
> You may be shutting your mind to the simplest solution. But please
> yourself :-)

I'd have to side with Mike that installing Nero just to get
the DVD codec seems like gross overkill and an open
invitation to additional minor horrors. The Microsoft
page I referenced lists some rather straightforward 3rd
party solutions.

[Arny Krueger]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message


> On Dec 6, 7:07 pm, Laurence Payne
> <NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com> wrote:

>> They didn't also give you a DVD player
>> application with the burner? That would install the
>> codec.

> It's an OEM drive. Maybe there's something on the Nero
> disk but I've already decided that I don't want to fool
> with that one.

I think the Nero player comes with a codec that works with DVDs.

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 7, 8:31 am, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> I think the Nero player comes with a codec that works with DVDs.

I think it's time to give up this project. I installed that codec
package that you pointed to last night and it didn't make any of the
players I already had work. At least it didn't seem to do any damage.

I found a DVD player (Intervideo) CD that came with my old Dell laptop
and installed that, and it wouldn't work either. It told me to lower
my screen resolution (it's now 1280x1024) or reduce the number of
colors (presently 16-bit) and try again. I didn't want to change the
resolution because that throws my desktop icons all out of kilter, but
I tried lowering it to 8-bit color and it still wouldn't work.

Maybe it just needs more horsepower. After all, it's a measly Pentium
3 800MHz with 256 MB RAM. No point in beating this weak horse any
further.

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 6, 11:23 pm, D C > wrote:

> When I grow up, I want to have Windows computers.

When I grow up, I hope I'll outgrow my desire to have a computer at
all. ;)

[Romeo Rondeau[_4_]]

Mike Rivers wrote:
> On Dec 7, 8:31 am, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> I think the Nero player comes with a codec that works with DVDs.
>
> I think it's time to give up this project. I installed that codec
> package that you pointed to last night and it didn't make any of the
> players I already had work. At least it didn't seem to do any damage.
>
> I found a DVD player (Intervideo) CD that came with my old Dell laptop
> and installed that, and it wouldn't work either. It told me to lower
> my screen resolution (it's now 1280x1024) or reduce the number of
> colors (presently 16-bit) and try again. I didn't want to change the
> resolution because that throws my desktop icons all out of kilter, but
> I tried lowering it to 8-bit color and it still wouldn't work.
>
> Maybe it just needs more horsepower. After all, it's a measly Pentium
> 3 800MHz with 256 MB RAM. No point in beating this weak horse any
> further.
>

You've definitely got some kind of software problem. My prognosis: it's
broken! :-)

[Laurence Payne]

On Fri, 07 Dec 2007 08:19:22 -0600, Romeo Rondeau >
wrote:

>You've definitely got some kind of software problem. My prognosis: it's
>broken! :-)

You mean he's about to throw it across the room?

(Or did you mean "diagnosis"? :-)

[Romeo Rondeau[_4_]]

Laurence Payne wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Dec 2007 08:19:22 -0600, Romeo Rondeau >
> wrote:
>
>> You've definitely got some kind of software problem. My prognosis: it's
>> broken! :-)
>
> You mean he's about to throw it across the room?
>
> (Or did you mean "diagnosis"? :-)

I'm really suspecting that he's got an old OS that's been patched to
hell and back and just can't make heads or tails of anything any more,
but that's just me. So, I think he should throw his OS across the room,
bite the bullet and update it. He's got a P3 800, that will run XP just
fine. My guess is that he won't do, unless his life is threatened :-)

[philicorda[_4_]]

On Fri, 07 Dec 2007 14:51:40 +0000, Romeo Rondeau wrote:

> Laurence Payne wrote:
>> On Fri, 07 Dec 2007 08:19:22 -0600, Romeo Rondeau >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> You've definitely got some kind of software problem. My prognosis:
>>> it's broken! :-)
>>
>> You mean he's about to throw it across the room?
>>
>> (Or did you mean "diagnosis"? :-)
>
> I'm really suspecting that he's got an old OS that's been patched to
> hell and back and just can't make heads or tails of anything any more,
> but that's just me. So, I think he should throw his OS across the room,
> bite the bullet and update it. He's got a P3 800, that will run XP just
> fine. My guess is that he won't do, unless his life is threatened :-)

XP *is* Windows 2000 patched to hell and back. :)

I'd say if Mike has Wavelab, there is no reason not to use it.
It's the best audio CD burning app I've ever used, and will do data CDs+
DVDs too. I find Nero far more complicated and obtuse.

[D C[_2_]]

Mike Rivers wrote:

>> When I grow up, I want to have Windows computers.
>
> When I grow up, I hope I'll outgrow my desire to have a computer at
> all. ;)


That works. : )

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 7, 9:51 am, Romeo Rondeau > wrote:

> I'm really suspecting that he's got an old OS that's been patched to
> hell and back and just can't make heads or tails of anything any more,

It's Windows 2000, the best Windows ever made. <g>

> He's got a P3 800, that will run XP just
> fine. My guess is that he won't do, unless his life is threatened :-)

I actually have a new XP upgrade copy sitting here, but it won't
upgrade from Win2000, only 9x and ME. I've been saving it for the day
when I build my new computer (I'll install Win95 on it, and then
upgrade to XP before loading anything else on it).

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 7, 10:56 am, philicorda
> wrote:

> I'd say if Mike has Wavelab, there is no reason not to use it.
> It's the best audio CD burning app I've ever used, and will do data CDs+
> DVDs too. I find Nero far more complicated and obtuse.

I don't have WaveLab and a DVD burner installed on the same computer,
so it won't help with the DVD burning problem, and certainly won't
help with the DVD video playing problem. And I never tried using
WaveLab to burn a data DC (like file backups). It just never occurred
to me. I don't even know if it knows what to do with a non-audio file.

When I already have a WAV file, I find it much easier to use Nero to
burn an audio CD than to open the file in WaveLab and then tell it to
burn the CD. Just personal preference I guess.

[Laurence Payne]

On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 08:02:29 -0800 (PST), Mike Rivers
> wrote:

>> He's got a P3 800, that will run XP just
>> fine. My guess is that he won't do, unless his life is threatened :-)
>
>I actually have a new XP upgrade copy sitting here, but it won't
>upgrade from Win2000, only 9x and ME. I've been saving it for the day
>when I build my new computer (I'll install Win95 on it, and then
>upgrade to XP before loading anything else on it).


You don't have to install the earlier version. Just show the
installation a W98 installation CD when it asks. You wouldn't want
to perform an upgrade installation anyway. Always start clean.

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 7, 12:24 pm, Laurence Payne <NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com>
wrote:

> You don't have to install the earlier version. Just show the
> installation a W98 installation CD when it asks.

I intended to try that but I wasn't counting on it working.

[Getting Older and Grumpier Gear Minion]

On Dec 7, 12:45 pm, Mike Rivers > wrote:
> On Dec 7, 12:24 pm, Laurence Payne <NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com>
> wrote:
>
> > You don't have to install the earlier version. Just show the
> > installation a W98 installation CD when it asks.
>
> I intended to try that but I wasn't counting on it working.

Before you beat yourself up more, you mentioned the DVD player
was a Samsung?
I have a Samsung combo drive in my laptop, reads CDs fine,
looks at a DVD and says huh? Installed the OEM software,
aftermarket codec packages and still no DVD recognition.
I ordered a new drive to see if that would fix it.
Another guy I know had similar failures with those drives.
I'll keep you posted once it gets here.

[Laurence Payne]

On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 10:33:46 -0800 (PST), Getting Older and Grumpier
Gear Minion > wrote:

>> > You don't have to install the earlier version. Just show the
>> > installation a W98 installation CD when it asks.
>>
>> I intended to try that but I wasn't counting on it working.
>
>Before you beat yourself up more, you mentioned the DVD player
>was a Samsung?
>I have a Samsung combo drive in my laptop, reads CDs fine,
>looks at a DVD and says huh? Installed the OEM software,
>aftermarket codec packages and still no DVD recognition.
>I ordered a new drive to see if that would fix it.
>Another guy I know had similar failures with those drives.
>I'll keep you posted once it gets here.

I think we' ve been told it reads a DVD ok - sees the file structure
of a video DVD. We're just missing the codec that plays them.

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 7, 1:33 pm, Getting Older and Grumpier Gear Minion <westpase-
> wrote:

> Before you beat yourself up more, you mentioned the DVD player
> was a Samsung?

Yes. SH-S202N

> I have a Samsung combo drive in my laptop, reads CDs fine,
> looks at a DVD and says huh?

It seems to recognize DVDs OK, it's just that no media player I can
find, together with reported good codecs, will play videos off it. Let
me know if you have any better luck with your replacement drive.

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 7, 2:58 pm, Laurence Payne <NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com>
wrote:

> I think we' ve been told it reads a DVD ok - sees the file structure
> of a video DVD. We're just missing the codec that plays them.

Or the horsepower to do it. Some don't complain, they make all the
motions like they're playing but just don't display any video. Others
complain about lowering screen resolution or number of colors, like
maybe there isn't sufficient video memory. The "card" is an Intel 810
chip set, and I have the latest drivers for it from the Intel web
site. DVDs were just barely invented when this computer was made.

[philicorda[_4_]]

On Fri, 07 Dec 2007 08:06:32 -0800, Mike Rivers wrote:

> On Dec 7, 10:56 am, philicorda
> > wrote:
>
>> I'd say if Mike has Wavelab, there is no reason not to use it. It's the
>> best audio CD burning app I've ever used, and will do data CDs+ DVDs
>> too. I find Nero far more complicated and obtuse.
>
> I don't have WaveLab and a DVD burner installed on the same computer, so
> it won't help with the DVD burning problem, and certainly won't help
> with the DVD video playing problem. And I never tried using WaveLab to
> burn a data DC (like file backups). It just never occurred to me. I
> don't even know if it knows what to do with a non-audio file.

Open Wavelab and go
File->New->Data cd/dvd
It should open a window that looks and acts just like Nero.
I have Wavelab 5. I can't remember if earlier versions do this.

Get yer DVD burner in the Wavelab box. It'll burn DVD audio too...

>
> When I already have a WAV file, I find it much easier to use Nero to
> burn an audio CD than to open the file in WaveLab and then tell it to
> burn the CD. Just personal preference I guess.

I think you can burn files without opening them if you use 'simple audio
CD' rather than the montage.

I generally use Wavelab as it means I can keep all my mixdowns at 32bit
float, and dither on the fly when burning the CD. This means I don't need
to create 16bit intermediate files all the time.

I've found Wavelab to be a bit more correct than most software for making
CDs, which is more important to me as I need to do mixed mode mastering
on occasion. K3B on Linux is good too, especially if you need hybrid HFS/
ISO partitions and other obscure stuff.

I'm a real Wavelab fan, in case that was not obvious. :)

[Romeo Rondeau[_4_]]

Mike Rivers wrote:
> On Dec 7, 9:51 am, Romeo Rondeau > wrote:
>
>> I'm really suspecting that he's got an old OS that's been patched to
>> hell and back and just can't make heads or tails of anything any more,
>
> It's Windows 2000, the best Windows ever made. <g>

You're certainly right there Mike, and your methods have been working so
good so far :-)


>
>> He's got a P3 800, that will run XP just
>> fine. My guess is that he won't do, unless his life is threatened :-)
>
> I actually have a new XP upgrade copy sitting here, but it won't
> upgrade from Win2000, only 9x and ME. I've been saving it for the day
> when I build my new computer (I'll install Win95 on it, and then
> upgrade to XP before loading anything else on it).

Don't do that, just install Win XP fresh on it.

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 7, 6:25 pm, Romeo Rondeau > wrote:

> Don't do that, just install Win XP fresh on it.

Installing the OS is easy. Just put in the CD and go to lunch. But
when you say "fresh" rather than an upgrade, I assume you mean
starting with a new or freshly formatted disk drive.

What's difficult is loading all the applications back on the new
system. When you've been using the same computer for eight years it
accumulates load of useful stuff that you didn't buy and don't have
installation disks for on the shelf. I actually do save most
applications that I've downloaded, but it's difficult to recognize
many of them by their file names, useful as they may be.

I've migrated to new laptops twice and in each case it was a couple of
months before I stopped going back to the old computer to find an
application and put it on the new one. It's not like in the old days
when you could just copy files from backup disks and your programs
would run. Now everything has to be in the Registry, and there are
common shared files that need to be in the right places. So everything
really has to be "installed." There just doesn't seem to be an easy
way to do that.

[Romeo Rondeau[_4_]]

Mike Rivers wrote:
> On Dec 7, 6:25 pm, Romeo Rondeau > wrote:
>
>> Don't do that, just install Win XP fresh on it.
>
> Installing the OS is easy. Just put in the CD and go to lunch. But
> when you say "fresh" rather than an upgrade, I assume you mean
> starting with a new or freshly formatted disk drive.

Exactly.

>
> What's difficult is loading all the applications back on the new
> system. When you've been using the same computer for eight years it
> accumulates load of useful stuff that you didn't buy and don't have
> installation disks for on the shelf. I actually do save most
> applications that I've downloaded, but it's difficult to recognize
> many of them by their file names, useful as they may be.

>
> I've migrated to new laptops twice and in each case it was a couple of
> months before I stopped going back to the old computer to find an
> application and put it on the new one. It's not like in the old days
> when you could just copy files from backup disks and your programs
> would run. Now everything has to be in the Registry, and there are
> common shared files that need to be in the right places. So everything
> really has to be "installed." There just doesn't seem to be an easy
> way to do that.

It's been that way for a long time, this is nothing new. What's wrong
with going through your computer and making a list of the things that
need to be re-installed before you even get started? A little bit of
prep work ahead of time will make the whole process run smoothly. At the
same time, you will notice things that are installed that don't need to
be on the new system and you can choose at that time to not install
them. Good computer habits, my friend :-) You're one of the smartest
guys I know, Mike... put that brain to use! :_)

[Arny Krueger]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message

> On Dec 7, 8:31 am, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
>> I think the Nero player comes with a codec that works
>> with DVDs.

> I think it's time to give up this project. I installed
> that codec package that you pointed to last night and it
> didn't make any of the players I already had work. At
> least it didn't seem to do any damage.

Interesting. I tested the package under XP using the standard Windows Media
Player.

> I found a DVD player (Intervideo) CD that came with my
> old Dell laptop and installed that, and it wouldn't work
> either. It told me to lower my screen resolution (it's
> now 1280x1024) or reduce the number of colors (presently
> 16-bit) and try again. I didn't want to change the
> resolution because that throws my desktop icons all out
> of kilter, but I tried lowering it to 8-bit color and it
> still wouldn't work.

Too old. The old software doesn't seem to support running on high
resolution, high color desktops.

> Maybe it just needs more horsepower. After all, it's a
> measly Pentium 3 800MHz with 256 MB RAM. No point in
> beating this weak horse any further.

One other difference is that the computers I test with are fully-up-to-date
with all MS software updates, which includes the latest Windows Media Player
that runs on XP. I think it is R 11.

[Laurence Payne]

On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 15:42:19 -0800 (PST), Mike Rivers
> wrote:

>What's difficult is loading all the applications back on the new
>system. When you've been using the same computer for eight years it
>accumulates load of useful stuff that you didn't buy and don't have
>installation disks for on the shelf. I actually do save most
>applications that I've downloaded, but it's difficult to recognize
>many of them by their file names, useful as they may be.

Isn't it about time you stopped being frightened by computers? :-)

[Arny Krueger]

"philicorda" >
wrote in message


> XP *is* Windows 2000 patched to hell and back. :)

I recently updated a desktop in the 2400 MHz/512 mb range from Win2K to XP.
There was no comparison in terms of response and smoothess - XP transformed
the once-balky machine into something that was very smooth, and much nicer
to work with.

[Arny Krueger]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message

> On Dec 7, 9:51 am, Romeo Rondeau > wrote:
>
>> I'm really suspecting that he's got an old OS that's
>> been patched to hell and back and just can't make heads
>> or tails of anything any more,
>
> It's Windows 2000, the best Windows ever made. <g>
>
>> He's got a P3 800, that will run XP just
>> fine. My guess is that he won't do, unless his life is
>> threatened :-)
>
> I actually have a new XP upgrade copy sitting here, but
> it won't upgrade from Win2000, only 9x and ME.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/292607

seems to tell a different story.

[Arny Krueger]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message

> On Dec 7, 12:24 pm, Laurence Payne
> <NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
>
>> You don't have to install the earlier version. Just
>> show the installation a W98 installation CD when it asks.
>
> I intended to try that but I wasn't counting on it
> working.

It always works.

[Arny Krueger]

"Romeo Rondeau" > wrote in message
. net
> Laurence Payne wrote:
>> On Fri, 07 Dec 2007 08:19:22 -0600, Romeo Rondeau
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> You've definitely got some kind of software problem. My
>>> prognosis: it's broken! :-)
>>
>> You mean he's about to throw it across the room?
>>
>> (Or did you mean "diagnosis"? :-)
>
> I'm really suspecting that he's got an old OS that's been
> patched to hell and back and just can't make heads or
> tails of anything any more, but that's just me. So, I
> think he should throw his OS across the room, bite the
> bullet and update it. He's got a P3 800, that will run XP
> just fine. My guess is that he won't do, unless his life
> is threatened :-)

I've been running software DVD decoders for many a moon. The usual
requirement is a ca. 400 MHz CPU. Win98 is just fine.

http://www.cyberlink.com/english/products/powerdvd/system_requirements.jsp

Operating Systems: Microsoft Windows 98SE, Windows ME, Windows 2000, Windows
XP
Processor: Intel Pentium II 350MHz* or above, or any Athlon processor

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 7, 8:37 pm, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/292607
> seems to tell a different story.

Hello? Different story than what? On the box it says what versions
the upgrade applies to, and Win2000 isn't one of them. Not to say that
it CAN'T be upgraded to XP, just that I can't do it for the $29 that I
paid for this particular upgrade package. Maybe it really will work. I
don't know, and I don't care to find out.

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 7, 8:36 pm, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> I recently updated a desktop in the 2400 MHz/512 mb range from Win2K to XP.
> There was no comparison in terms of response and smoothess - XP transformed
> the once-balky machine into something that was very smooth, and much nicer
> to work with.

There's nothing balky about my Win2000 machine. I don't fix things
that aren't broken. A balky disk drive isn't the fault of the
operating system. It just wore out. I never turn off this computer.

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote...

> I never turn off this computer.

That's not a particularly good idea, IMHO.

[jakdedert]

Mike Rivers wrote:
> On Dec 7, 2:58 pm, Laurence Payne <NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I think we' ve been told it reads a DVD ok - sees the file structure
>> of a video DVD. We're just missing the codec that plays them.
>
> Or the horsepower to do it. Some don't complain, they make all the
> motions like they're playing but just don't display any video. Others
> complain about lowering screen resolution or number of colors, like
> maybe there isn't sufficient video memory. The "card" is an Intel 810
> chip set, and I have the latest drivers for it from the Intel web
> site. DVDs were just barely invented when this computer was made.

I made the mistake of installing XP on a PII 266 laptop (toshiba). The
machine was slow with the Win2k install that it came with, so I put on
Win98SE. That was a better fit, technology-wise, and satisfactory until
my daughter so filled it with spyware and trojans that nothing would do
but to wipe it...thus the XP install, just because I had it.

It's so slow! But just to prove the point, I maxed it out with 256mb of
memory (the max for the mb), which seemed to help a bit. I got a deal
on a CDRW-DVD read only drive that fit, so I thought 'what the heck?'

The machine burns CDs just fine, but if I pop in a DVD, it looks at it,
sighs and attempts (after a long time) to load it. Eventually it does,
but although the audio seems fine, the video is totally borked. It will
load about one frame every minute or so...makes it pretty hard to watch
a movie.

I can't even imagine trying burn one in this machine, but admittedly
it's considerably slower than even his. My Athlon T.Bird 2gig seems to
be a little challenged doing so, and it's roughly twice the machine he has.

jak

[Max Arwood]

Sounds like this might be an easy solution - I just bought one yesterday.
Very cheap, but will almost guarrentee it will be antique before it wears
out!
Dual core for $299!
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3322776&CatId=2663

You might still need this:
Great codex's website:
http://www.afterdawn.com/

K-lite
http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_software/video_tools/k-lite_video_conversion_pack.cfm

Mega codex: (get 3.5.7 it's the most stable)
http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_software/codecs_and_filters/k-lite_mega_codec_pack.cfm

This is a very good codex Video and audio. It will allow Windows Media
Player to play 24bit files among other things -
http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_software/codecs_and_filters/xp_codec_pack.cfm

Another nice codex utility
http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_software/video_tools/gspot.cfm

Max Arwood


"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
...
> On Dec 6, 10:29 am, Beauchampy > wrote:
>
>> Sorry if this has already been mentioned but I remember back in the day
>> of Nero 5 the versions that shipped with CD writers would only work with
>> those make of cd writer.
>
> Normally it didn't matter because you got it with that model CD
> writer. The copy I have is actually a retail copy (a Micro Center
> special for $15) and it worked with the drive that I had at the time.
> The reason I switched to Nero from the Easy CD Creator program that
> came with the drive is that I wanted to put track IDs in a long,
> continuous program and Nero had a straightforward way to do that. I
> use that capability all the time. I now have CD Architect and WaveLab
> which also do it, but I REMEMBER how to do it in Nero and have to keep
> looking it up with the other programs.
>
> I'd be happy to try Nero 7 if it would let me keep my Nero 5
> installed, but it won't. I don't want to load it up and find that it
> doesn't have the track split capability. I know, I could un-install it
> (I hope) and re-install the old version, but that's a pain. But I know
> it's easier for you to say "use something else" than answer what I
> asked.
>
>> Also, do yourself a favour and replace that maxtor disk.
>
> The disk I replaced was a Maxtor (about 5 years old, computer on all
> the time). The replacement is a Western Digital. But you know that no
> matter what brand of hardware someone mentions around here, from
> Behringer to Mercedes-Benz, someone will tell you that he heard that
> that brand was a problem.
>
>> Also install XP god-damn it, or linux, or just anything else! :)
>
> Windows 2000 doesn't phone home. And I don't want to turn my world
> upside down and go with Linux and all of its "always in development"
> applications.
>
> No thanks for the help this time. Maybe next time I'll have a question
> you can really answer.

[Max Arwood]

I guarantee I can't spell either! <g>
Max Arwood

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

"jakdedert" > wrote


> I made the mistake of installing XP on a PII 266 laptop (toshiba).

Yes.




;-)

[Laurence Payne]

On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 19:18:26 -0800 (PST), Mike Rivers
> wrote:

>Hello? Different story than what? On the box it says what versions
>the upgrade applies to, and Win2000 isn't one of them. Not to say that
>it CAN'T be upgraded to XP, just that I can't do it for the $29 that I
>paid for this particular upgrade package. Maybe it really will work. I
>don't know, and I don't care to find out.

As you're too well-informed to attempt anything as silly as an
in-place upgrade, what does it matter? You'll be starting with a
clean disk. Do whatever has to be done.

Remember, no-one's forcing you to use the drive with W2K on it. You
can keep that, even set up a dual-boot.

But really, unless you want the learning experience (which you should,
but apparently dont :-) why not just spend a couple of hundred on a
Windows XP box? You're not, I think, doing anything particularly
demanding on that W2K machine. And, if you review software, you'll be
using what the majority of your readers will be using. You can run an
optimised high-end machine as well.

[Arny Krueger]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message

> On Dec 7, 8:36 pm, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
>> I recently updated a desktop in the 2400 MHz/512 mb
>> range from Win2K to XP. There was no comparison in terms
>> of response and smoothess - XP transformed the
>> once-balky machine into something that was very smooth,
>> and much nicer to work with.

> There's nothing balky about my Win2000 machine.

Good. Or maybe its a matter of perspective.

> I don't fix things that aren't broken.

I have a low tolerance for broken.

> A balky disk drive isn't the fault of the operating system.

The old hard drive in that Win2K system wasn't the problem, because I reused
it. BTW, it was a RAID array. It was just fine as pieces of hardware go. My
evaluation was that it was as good as the day it was first loaded with
Win2K. Software can make a difference.

> It just wore out.

Not that pair of drives.

> I never turn off this computer.

Won't stop things from failing if it is their day to fail. You know of
course that hard drives can fail in computers that are turned off, right?

[Laurence Payne]

On Fri, 07 Dec 2007 23:53:03 -0600, jakdedert
> wrote:

>I made the mistake of installing XP on a PII 266 laptop (toshiba). The
>machine was slow with the Win2k install that it came with, so I put on
>Win98SE. That was a better fit, technology-wise, and satisfactory until
>my daughter so filled it with spyware and trojans that nothing would do
>but to wipe it...thus the XP install, just because I had it.
>
>It's so slow! But just to prove the point, I maxed it out with 256mb of
>memory (the max for the mb), which seemed to help a bit. I got a deal
>on a CDRW-DVD read only drive that fit, so I thought 'what the heck?'

I had a client recently with laptop problems. Windows XP running
through mud. A sticker on the box gaily proclaimed "Made for Windows
XP". But it had 128MB installed! I added the maximum supported,
which still only took it up to 384KB.

She paid a lot of money for that computer.

[Arny Krueger]

"jakdedert" > wrote in message


> I made the mistake of installing XP on a PII 266 laptop
> (toshiba). The machine was slow with the Win2k install
> that it came with, so I put on Win98SE.

Makes sense to me.

> That was a
> better fit, technology-wise, and satisfactory until my
> daughter so filled it with spyware and trojans that
> nothing would do but to wipe it.

...and reload Win98?

BTW, I still build new Win98SE machines to this day. 512 megs and an Athlon
64 running off a 250 GB hard drive partitioned down to 120 GB because of
Win98 limitations. Its a serious screamer as long as you don't try to put
the multitasking too far, or try some of that fancy new I/O gear that
doesn't even have Win98 drivers any more.

> ..thus the XP install, just because I had it.

266 is pushing it. Hard.

> It's so slow! But just to prove the point, I maxed it
> out with 256mb of memory (the max for the mb), which
> seemed to help a bit.

500 Mhz and 512 meg of RAM is about as low as I would want to go.

> I got a deal on a CDRW-DVD read only drive that fit, so I thought
> 'what the heck?'

> The machine burns CDs just fine, but if I pop in a DVD,
> it looks at it, sighs and attempts (after a long time) to
> load it. Eventually it does, but although the audio
> seems fine, the video is totally borked. It will load
> about one frame every minute or so...makes it pretty hard
> to watch a movie.

350 MHz was the low water mark for softare DVD decoders.

> I can't even imagine trying burn one in this machine, but
> admittedly it's considerably slower than even his.

Burning works fine on a good 266. Burning need not be CPU intensive. Its
mostly an I/O play.

> My Athlon T.Bird 2gig seems to be a little challenged doing so, and it's
> roughly twice
> the machine he has.

XP on a 1 GHz 512 meg machine is not all that bad if the hard drive is fast.

[Arny Krueger]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message

> On Dec 7, 8:37 pm, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/292607
>> seems to tell a different story.
>
> Hello? Different story than what? On the box it says
> what versions the upgrade applies to, and Win2000 isn't
> one of them.

Did you read the web page? It says that Win2K will be accepted for upgrade.

Boxes are the short story, which may be incomplete.

> Not to say that it CAN'T be upgraded to XP,
> just that I can't do it for the $29 that I paid for this
> particular upgrade package. Maybe it really will work. I
> don't know, and I don't care to find out.

You don't have to follow through to test the theory. Just start the upgrade
and it will immediately tell you if it can't proceed, long before anything
is done to the target system. Sort of like installus interruptus, if you
catch my drift. ;-)

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 8, 7:15 am, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> The old hard drive in that Win2K system wasn't the problem, because I reused
> it. BTW, it was a RAID array. It was just fine as pieces of hardware go. My
> evaluation was that it was as good as the day it was first loaded with
> Win2K. Software can make a difference.

In this case, the drive was wearing out. Every way I could test it, it
had bad sectors. I started with FDISK, then formatted it, and it was
usable but with a lot of bad sectors marked. I figure that once a disk
gets to that point, more bad sectors will be coming and it's better
off being a paperweight.

> > I never turn off this computer.
>
> Won't stop things from failing if it is their day to fail. You know of
> course that hard drives can fail in computers that are turned off, right?

Of course. Probably the worst thing about leaving the computer on all
the time is that it sits on the floor, and my house is incredibly
dusty. If I forget to open it up and vacuum it out a couple of times a
year it gets full of dust, which is probably not very good for
anything, including the disk drives. I'm not leaving it on because I
think that saves the electronics (in-rush current and all), I'm
leaving it on because it takes too damn long to boot up and I use it
several times during the day. If I turned it off before I went to bed
and started it up when I wake up, it might save 25% operating time. I
don't think that's a big deal.

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 8, 7:12 am, Laurence Payne <NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com>
wrote:

> But really, unless you want the learning experience (which you should,
> but apparently dont :-) why not just spend a couple of hundred on a
> Windows XP box? You're not, I think, doing anything particularly
> demanding on that W2K machine. And, if you review software, you'll be
> using what the majority of your readers will be using.

I have two other computers that run XP, and I try to avoid reviewing
software. But sometimes I have to RUN (and often load new) software in
order to review a piece of hardware. The Mackie stuff only runs on XP
so that goes on the other computers. The Win2000 one is the one I'm
using now. I use it on the Internet, use it with Office 2000 - Word
for writing, Excel for Excelling, and that's about it. If I play any
audio on it, it's going through the built-in sound card. No real need
to update.

[Don Pearce]

On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 06:23:33 -0800 (PST), Mike Rivers
> wrote:

>In this case, the drive was wearing out. Every way I could test it, it
>had bad sectors. I started with FDISK, then formatted it, and it was
>usable but with a lot of bad sectors marked. I figure that once a disk
>gets to that point, more bad sectors will be coming and it's better
>off being a paperweight.

Get yourself some software that will read the S.M.A.R.T data from the
drive. That will tell you how things really stand.

http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/Hard-Disk-Utils/Active-SMART.shtml

will do for a start.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 8, 9:52 am, (Don Pearce) wrote:

> Get yourself some software that will read the S.M.A.R.T data from the
> drive. That will tell you how things really stand.

Thanks for the reminder. I got a SMART reader program when the drive
on my older laptop started failing. Basically it confirmed what I had
already concluding - that the drive was failing and that I'd better
replace it soon (which I did).

The problem drive in question is only 30 GB so even if it's
salvageable, it's probably still more useful as a paperweight than as
a disk drive. I could use it for Mackie HDR projects, but I wouldn't
want to trust it, even for backups.

[Peter Larsen[_2_]]

Mike Rivers wrote:

> On Dec 8, 9:52 am, (Don Pearce) wrote:

>> Get yourself some software that will read the S.M.A.R.T data from the
>> drive. That will tell you how things really stand.

> Thanks for the reminder. I got a SMART reader program when the drive
> on my older laptop started failing. Basically it confirmed what I had
> already concluding - that the drive was failing and that I'd better
> replace it soon (which I did).

> The problem drive in question is only 30 GB so even if it's
> salvageable, it's probably still more useful as a paperweight than as
> a disk drive. I could use it for Mackie HDR projects, but I wouldn't
> want to trust it, even for backups.

I didn't follow this from the start, but the manufacturer probably has some
test software that allows low level formatting the drive.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Laurence Payne]

On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 19:26:09 +0100, "Peter Larsen"
> wrote:

>I didn't follow this from the start, but the manufacturer probably has some
>test software that allows low level formatting the drive.

Yeah. But it's not worth fussing over a 30GB drive that might be
going bad. Chuck it and replace it for the price of a few coffees in
Starbucks. (Which are, admittedly, vastly overpriced:-)

[Max Arwood]

If I remember the main differences between Nero5 and Nero7 is the addition
of DVD, then Dual Layer DVD then Blue Ray. Also support for more drives
DVD/BlueRay/newerCDs. Mostly the functions are the same.
Max Arwood

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
...
> On Dec 6, 10:29 am, Beauchampy > wrote:
>
>> Sorry if this has already been mentioned but I remember back in the day
>> of Nero 5 the versions that shipped with CD writers would only work with
>> those make of cd writer.
>
> Normally it didn't matter because you got it with that model CD
> writer. The copy I have is actually a retail copy (a Micro Center
> special for $15) and it worked with the drive that I had at the time.
> The reason I switched to Nero from the Easy CD Creator program that
> came with the drive is that I wanted to put track IDs in a long,
> continuous program and Nero had a straightforward way to do that. I
> use that capability all the time. I now have CD Architect and WaveLab
> which also do it, but I REMEMBER how to do it in Nero and have to keep
> looking it up with the other programs.
>
> I'd be happy to try Nero 7 if it would let me keep my Nero 5
> installed, but it won't. I don't want to load it up and find that it
> doesn't have the track split capability. I know, I could un-install it
> (I hope) and re-install the old version, but that's a pain. But I know
> it's easier for you to say "use something else" than answer what I
> asked.
>
>> Also, do yourself a favour and replace that maxtor disk.
>
> The disk I replaced was a Maxtor (about 5 years old, computer on all
> the time). The replacement is a Western Digital. But you know that no
> matter what brand of hardware someone mentions around here, from
> Behringer to Mercedes-Benz, someone will tell you that he heard that
> that brand was a problem.
>
>> Also install XP god-damn it, or linux, or just anything else! :)
>
> Windows 2000 doesn't phone home. And I don't want to turn my world
> upside down and go with Linux and all of its "always in development"
> applications.
>
> No thanks for the help this time. Maybe next time I'll have a question
> you can really answer.

[Arny Krueger]

"Laurence Payne" <NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com> wrote in
message
> On Fri, 07 Dec 2007 23:53:03 -0600, jakdedert
> > wrote:
>
>> I made the mistake of installing XP on a PII 266 laptop
>> (toshiba). The machine was slow with the Win2k install
>> that it came with, so I put on Win98SE. That was a
>> better fit, technology-wise, and satisfactory until my
>> daughter so filled it with spyware and trojans that
>> nothing would do but to wipe it...thus the XP install,
>> just because I had it.
>>
>> It's so slow! But just to prove the point, I maxed it
>> out with 256mb of memory (the max for the mb), which
>> seemed to help a bit. I got a deal on a CDRW-DVD read
>> only drive that fit, so I thought 'what the heck?'
>
> I had a client recently with laptop problems. Windows XP
> running through mud. A sticker on the box gaily
> proclaimed "Made for Windows XP". But it had 128MB
> installed!

When XP first came out, it could run pretty well in smaller machines. I
don't know about 128 megs, but 256 used to be adequate. Today, XP wants 512
pretty badly, and will benefit from over a gig.

> I added the maximum supported, which still
> only took it up to 384KB.

> She paid a lot of money for that computer.

As we both know, times change, epecially in the realm of RAM megs per buck,
and megs per watt.

[Peter Larsen[_2_]]

Arny Krueger wrote:

> When XP first came out, it could run pretty well in smaller machines.
> I don't know about 128 megs, but 256 used to be adequate.

It's still enough for XP, but add a few services and things go bust.
Automatic updates is an amazing resource hog.

> Today, XP wants 512 pretty badly, and will benefit from over a gig.

Yer

>> I added the maximum supported, which still
>> only took it up to 384KB.

>> She paid a lot of money for that computer.

She takes too god care of her things, laptop usable life estimate is three
years, stationary 6 years.

> As we both know, times change, epecially in the realm of RAM megs per
> buck, and megs per watt.

True, but it is also true that if it was adequate and if you don't change
the software on it it remains adequate. The instant first aid to a machine
that has a slow startup is hibernation. All windows versions are in fact
very good at making do with meagre resources as long as you use only one
application at a time and/or can live with the paging time when changing to
another application.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 9, 4:38 am, "Peter Larsen" > wrote:

> She takes too god care of her things, laptop usable life estimate is three
> years, stationary 6 years.

I take good care of my things, too. I've had four laptop computers
over about the last 15 years. I think the first one, a 286 that never
had Windows on it at all has finally retired, but the one after that
(Win95) is still being used by a friend to get e-mail when she
travels, and the one after that is in my living room next to the couch
so I can surf the web when the TV show gets boring or look up; stuff
on the web that I read in the newspaper.

> True, but it is also true that if it was adequate and if you don't change
> the software on it it remains adequate.

Yup, and that's why I've upgraded my laptop computers over the years.
I've moved from being able to not record audio at all to recording two
tracks, to recording eight tracks. That's enough for a while.

> The instant first aid to a machine
> that has a slow startup is hibernation. All windows versions are in fact
> very good at making do with meagre resources as long as you use only one
> application at a time and/or can live with the paging time when changing to
> another application.

Huh? What does hibernation have to do with startup? Or are you saying
don't shut it down, let it hibernate? I have my laptop set up to
hibernate on battery power but not on AC. I find that when it wakes up
from hibernation, there's always something that isn't right and often
as not I have to reboot anyway. Usually it has to do with network
connections.

Hibernation is a good think to reduce the risk of losing work when the
battery runs out, but not for general walking away from the computer
for a while.

[Arny Krueger]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message


> Huh? What does hibernation have to do with startup?

Hibernation is a tricky way to power a machine off and power it on and not
have to reboot it when you power it on.

Before power off, hibernation writes the contents of RAM and the status of
all hardware registers including the IO cards onto the hard drive. At power
on, instead of booting the machine, hibernation loads RAM and all the
machine registers from the hard drive. It is like nothing happened.

It's a horse race whether hibernation or booting is faster, but often its
hibernation.

One of the tricks that XP plays is that it does some limited
hibernation-type things during a normal shutdown, that acellerate the next
boot. That's one potential reason why XP boot can be surprisingly long from
time to time. During really slow boots, something happened during the last
session that eliminated the possibility of accellerating the next boot.
Updating a driver or parts of the XP kernal can do this. A really bad system
crash can do this.

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 9, 7:58 am, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> One of the tricks that XP plays is that it does some limited
> hibernation-type things during a normal shutdown, that acellerate the next
> boot.

Is that what it's doing in the 90 seconds or so when it says "Windows
is saving your settings"?

> That's one potential reason why XP boot can be surprisingly long from
> time to time.

If sometimes it boots faster than other, I really don't notice. I've
given up waiting and watching, and just do something else while it's
booting. In the case of my current laptop, the boot and shutdown time
doesn't seem to have grown over its life, it's always been that way. I
have as many programs and services turned off at startup as I dare,
but when I cut back on these, it didn't seem to make anything go any
faster. I think it's just the nature of the beast.

[Don Pearce]

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 05:39:27 -0800 (PST), Mike Rivers
> wrote:

>On Dec 9, 7:58 am, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> One of the tricks that XP plays is that it does some limited
>> hibernation-type things during a normal shutdown, that acellerate the next
>> boot.
>
>Is that what it's doing in the 90 seconds or so when it says "Windows
>is saving your settings"?
>
>> That's one potential reason why XP boot can be surprisingly long from
>> time to time.
>
>If sometimes it boots faster than other, I really don't notice. I've
>given up waiting and watching, and just do something else while it's
>booting. In the case of my current laptop, the boot and shutdown time
>doesn't seem to have grown over its life, it's always been that way. I
>have as many programs and services turned off at startup as I dare,
>but when I cut back on these, it didn't seem to make anything go any
>faster. I think it's just the nature of the beast.

A good measure is how many times the little progress thermometer
travels across during boot. Some friends of mine who are essentially
computer-illiterate have a three year old XP machine that needs just
one passage of the thermometer before windows starts, because they
haven't messed with anything. My machines take typically between ten
and twenty. Cleaning the registry can help a lot.

d
--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Peter Larsen[_2_]]

Mike Rivers wrote:

>> The instant first aid to a machine
>> that has a slow startup is hibernation. All windows versions are in
>> fact very good at making do with meagre resources as long as you use
>> only one application at a time and/or can live with the paging time
>> when changing to another application.

> Huh? What does hibernation have to do with startup? Or are you saying
> don't shut it down, let it hibernate?

Yerp.

> I have my laptop set up to
> hibernate on battery power but not on AC. I find that when it wakes up
> from hibernation, there's always something that isn't right and often
> as not I have to reboot anyway. Usually it has to do with network
> connections.

Shortening the lease time on the dhcp server may address this. The issue is
that the client, ie. the computer, does not release the address when it goes
to sleep, it should not be a problem but with some integrated dhcp servers,
like the one in my wireless router it is. I got it for free because of that
error. Or give it a fixed address. I haven't bothered doing anything about
it, if I can't wait I reboot or reboot the wireless router that is the
culprit.

> Hibernation is a good think to reduce the risk of losing work when the
> battery runs out, but not for general walking away from the computer
> for a while.

There is one other issue, sound card and driver syncronisation may fail. I
gave up on auto-hibernating my daw if it got bored beause of this. Mileage
no doubt varies wildly in this context, but for a laptop the shortest turn
off time is to go into hibernation, so that is what I have set mine up to do
when I hit the power button on it.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Don Pearce]

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 18:12:24 +0100, "Peter Larsen"
> wrote:

>Mike Rivers wrote:
>
>>> The instant first aid to a machine
>>> that has a slow startup is hibernation. All windows versions are in
>>> fact very good at making do with meagre resources as long as you use
>>> only one application at a time and/or can live with the paging time
>>> when changing to another application.
>
>> Huh? What does hibernation have to do with startup? Or are you saying
>> don't shut it down, let it hibernate?
>
>Yerp.
>
>> I have my laptop set up to
>> hibernate on battery power but not on AC. I find that when it wakes up
>> from hibernation, there's always something that isn't right and often
>> as not I have to reboot anyway. Usually it has to do with network
>> connections.
>
>Shortening the lease time on the dhcp server may address this. The issue is
>that the client, ie. the computer, does not release the address when it goes
>to sleep, it should not be a problem but with some integrated dhcp servers,
>like the one in my wireless router it is. I got it for free because of that
>error. Or give it a fixed address. I haven't bothered doing anything about
>it, if I can't wait I reboot or reboot the wireless router that is the
>culprit.
>
>> Hibernation is a good think to reduce the risk of losing work when the
>> battery runs out, but not for general walking away from the computer
>> for a while.
>
>There is one other issue, sound card and driver syncronisation may fail. I
>gave up on auto-hibernating my daw if it got bored beause of this. Mileage
>no doubt varies wildly in this context, but for a laptop the shortest turn
>off time is to go into hibernation, so that is what I have set mine up to do
>when I hit the power button on it.
>
>
> Kind regards
>
> Peter Larsen
>
>
>
The problem with hibernation rather than full turn off is that XP,
like any other windows systems gets clogged up with unneeded processes
and pieces of loaded, but unneeded RAM. A full reboot is the only way
to clean all that stuff out. I use hibernate (Fn F4) if I am taking
the laptop to a meeting with applications already running, but full
turn off any other time

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Getting Older and Grumpier Gear Minion]

On Dec 7, 3:46 pm, Mike Rivers > wrote:
> On Dec 7, 1:33 pm, Getting Older and Grumpier Gear Minion <westpase-
>
> > wrote:
> > Before you beat yourself up more, you mentioned the DVD player
> > was a Samsung?
>
> Yes. SH-S202N
>
> > I have a Samsung combo drive in my laptop, reads CDs fine,
> > looks at a DVD and says huh?
>
> It seems to recognize DVDs OK, it's just that no media player I can
> find, together with reported good codecs, will play videos off it. Let
> me know if you have any better luck with your replacement drive.

Hi, I am quite happy to say that the replacement DVD module
played the DVD as soon as I put it in and reset the region
for the player. Software appears to be running fine.
Yippie. Sometimes just swapping hardware can make a difference.
Unfortunately DVD drives aren't like movie projectors that you
can actually see when the lamp burns out (-:

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 11, 1:52 pm, Getting Older and Grumpier Gear Minion <westpase-
> wrote:

> Hi, I am quite happy to say that the replacement DVD module
> played the DVD as soon as I put it in and reset the region
> for the player.

Well, I wouldn't have expected that. Maybe I'll have to pull this
drive and exchange it for another one. I figured that if it saw the
DVD file structure it would play it. Did your original drive get that
far?

> Unfortunately DVD drives aren't like movie projectors that you
> can actually see when the lamp burns out (-:

Yeah, I feel the same way about transistors and ICs. Used to be that
when you couldn't see the tube filaments light up, you went out to the
drug store (where they had a tube tester), bought a new tube, and that
fixed the radio.

I wish computers had tubes so they'd be easier to troubleshoot. We had
a tube computer in the engineering department when I went to college.
It was decomissioned from Cape Canaveral (before it beame Cape Kennedy
for a while) when they started doing space shots and it wasn't fast
enough. Every semester a couple of graduate students spent most of the
term getting it working, ran a couple of programs, then turned it off,
assuring that the next crop of students would have plenty of
troubleshooting to do. a couple of thousand 12AU7s, as I recall, but
it was 47 years ago.

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message ...
> On Dec 8, 7:15 am, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
> > The old hard drive in that Win2K system wasn't the problem, because I reused
> > it. BTW, it was a RAID array. It was just fine as pieces of hardware go. My
> > evaluation was that it was as good as the day it was first loaded with
> > Win2K. Software can make a difference.
>
> In this case, the drive was wearing out. Every way I could test it, it
> had bad sectors. I started with FDISK, then formatted it, and it was
> usable but with a lot of bad sectors marked. I figure that once a disk
> gets to that point, more bad sectors will be coming and it's better
> off being a paperweight.

If it's making any noise at all... replece it. If it fails to defrag correctly, replace it.

> I'm leaving it on because it takes too damn long to boot up and I use it
> several times during the day.

It shouldn't take more than 60 seconds to boot. If it does, you've let it
become corrupted by the remnants of all of the hardware and software
you've been testing for review... coupled with anti-virus and other net-
oriented hogwash that you could do without.

> If I turned it off before I went to bed
> and started it up when I wake up, it might save 25% operating time. I
> don't think that's a big deal.

If you got a 25% discount on a new car, would that be a big deal ??

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

"Laurence Payne" <NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com> wrote in message ...
> On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 19:26:09 +0100, "Peter Larsen"
> > wrote:
>
> >I didn't follow this from the start, but the manufacturer probably has some
> >test software that allows low level formatting the drive.
>
> Yeah. But it's not worth fussing over a 30GB drive that might be
> going bad. Chuck it and replace it for the price of a few coffees in
> Starbucks. (Which are, admittedly, vastly overpriced:-)


160 Gig Maxtor IDE drives are currently $69 at Frys. 3-year warranty.

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

"Peter Larsen" > wrote in message...

> She takes too god care of her things, laptop usable life estimate is three
> years, stationary 6 years.

Rivers and I are definitely setting new records, then.

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message...

> Huh? What does hibernation have to do with startup?

Very often, troubles... especially if it was connected to the net at the time
or had scheduled tasks to run.

> Or are you saying
> don't shut it down, let it hibernate?

NOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooo..........

Disable "Sleep," "Hibernate," or any other bull**** besides the normal shut down.

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 11, 8:21 pm, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)" /Odm>
wrote:

> It shouldn't take more than 60 seconds to boot.

60 seconds is too long. Nobody should have to wait that long before
using a computer. These things are supposed to save time. <g>

> If it does, you've let it
> become corrupted by the remnants of all of the hardware and software
> you've been testing for review... coupled with anti-virus and other net-
> oriented hogwash that you could do without.

The only thing I've ever known that you can do about "remnants" is re-
install everything. I don't have time for that, though I'm sure there
are some remains around on the disk (that got transferred to the new
disk). I'm suspicious of registry cleaners since all of them say "be
sure to back up everything before you use it" so I haven't used one. I
don't want to take a chance using a program that doesn't have
confidence in not screwing up my system. I don't have a virus checker
constantly running, so that isn't getting in the way.

> If you got a 25% discount on a new car, would that be a big deal ??

Yes, but that's not a reasonable parallel. If my car could go 400,000
miles instead of 300,000 before it fell apart, that wouldn't be a big
deal because I'd probably want another one by the time it got to
150,000 miles. At least that's been the case for the last five or six
cars I've owned.

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 11, 8:27 pm, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)" /Odm>
wrote:

> Disable "Sleep," "Hibernate," or any other bull**** besides the normal shut down.

The only time my computer can hibernate is when the laptop is running
on batteries. It most likely isn't connected to a network and when it
wakes up it doesn't seem to be unhappy at all. I do allow the monitor
go to standby after half an hour or so of inactivity, but now that I
have LCD monitors all around except on the studio computer, I guess
that doesn't really help anything.

[Scott Dorsey]

David Morgan \(MAMS\) /Odm> wrote:
>"Peter Larsen" > wrote in message...
>
>> She takes too god care of her things, laptop usable life estimate is three
>> years, stationary 6 years.
>
>Rivers and I are definitely setting new records, then.

Hey, I still have a first generation Sonic system running on a NuBus mac.
I sure wouldn't want to depend on it for all my work, though, but I use
it still.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message ...
> David Morgan \(MAMS\) /Odm> wrote:
> >"Peter Larsen" > wrote in message...
> >
> >> She takes too god care of her things, laptop usable life estimate is three
> >> years, stationary 6 years.
> >
> >Rivers and I are definitely setting new records, then.
>
> Hey, I still have a first generation Sonic system running on a NuBus mac.
> I sure wouldn't want to depend on it for all my work, though, but I use
> it still.


I finally broke down and gave away the Mac IIc-i (20meg ram) that was running
Opcode StudioVision, Sound Designer II, DAT-a, Master List, and more - which
could fly in audio samples, trigger complicated MIDI sequences and record the
resulting analogue mixdown without a hiccup. Romeo worked on the same
system before it's owner listened to his requests for upgrades and eventually
sold the little Mac to me.

In my house, there are still a couple of P-I, 233s with 128 meg of ram running
Sound Forge, CD Architect, ACID and more with ease. There's plenty of P-III
400s still in service around here for all sorts of fairly complicated applications.

I sorta' wish I still had my TRS-80 and cassette tape drive. ;-) I guess that I
hadn't grown up enough to respect 'cool old ****' when I tossed that one.

DM

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message ...
> On Dec 11, 8:27 pm, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)" /Odm>
> wrote:
>
> > Disable "Sleep," "Hibernate," or any other bull**** besides the normal shut down.
>
> The only time my computer can hibernate is when the laptop is running
> on batteries. It most likely isn't connected to a network and when it
> wakes up it doesn't seem to be unhappy at all. I do allow the monitor
> go to standby after half an hour or so of inactivity, but now that I
> have LCD monitors all around except on the studio computer, I guess
> that doesn't really help anything.

I've seen hibernation cause problems. It is ram and cache based....
Too little ram or too many background processes or scheduled tasks
running when it goes to sleep or into hibernate, and there can be a
few issues. I doubt that it's a life-changing issue for your uses.

SO.... 60 seconds to fully booted is too long for you, eh? ;-)

[Peter Larsen[_2_]]

David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:

> "Peter Larsen" > wrote in message...

>> She takes too god care of her things, laptop usable life estimate is
>> three years, stationary 6 years.

> Rivers and I are definitely setting new records, then.

Luddites, ya'll luddites, bet you too would rather have them vith thermionic
valves instead (x) .... if you messed with them some more they would break
sooner ... seriously, once those critters get old and get used to be put
together in some specific way then do take apart and reassemble.

(x) imagine a quad core with one valve pr. transistor .... and the magnetic
ring storage unit ram to go with it. The volume unit would probably be cubic
miles ...


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Peter Larsen[_2_]]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

> David Morgan \(MAMS\) /Odm> wrote:

>> "Peter Larsen" > wrote in message...

>>> She takes too god care of her things, laptop usable life estimate
>>> is three years, stationary 6 years.

>> Rivers and I are definitely setting new records, then.

> Hey, I still have a first generation Sonic system running on a NuBus
> mac. I sure wouldn't want to depend on it for all my work, though,
> but I use it still.

Luddites of the World Unite! ... all power to the Luddites! ... on a similar
note, Luddism that is, it might be an idea to make a 45 rpm frequency
response calibration disk for those that transfer vinyl .... takes the
guesswork out of calibration, and it would be surviveable to mail
distribute. Just an idea, dunno if the market is there, but if the vinyl
"things" sites would like to you perhaps a business idea worth looking in
to?

> --scott


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Mike Rivers]

On Dec 12, 3:42 am, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)" /Odm>
wrote:

> I sorta' wish I still had my TRS-80 and cassette tape drive. ;-) I guess that I
> hadn't grown up enough to respect 'cool old ****' when I tossed that one.

I have a Commodore VIC-20 with cassette drive that I can send you. I
used to think that it might get valuable to some idiot eBay-fueled
collector, but slide rules seem to go for more money these days.

[Arny Krueger]

"David Morgan (MAMS)" /Odm> wrote in
message news:9KG7j.5190$bW.4362@trnddc07
> "Laurence Payne" <NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com> wrote in
> message
> ...
>> On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 19:26:09 +0100, "Peter Larsen"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> I didn't follow this from the start, but the
>>> manufacturer probably has some test software that
>>> allows low level formatting the drive.
>>
>> Yeah. But it's not worth fussing over a 30GB drive that
>> might be going bad. Chuck it and replace it for the
>> price of a few coffees in Starbucks. (Which are,
>> admittedly, vastly overpriced:-)
>
>
> 160 Gig Maxtor IDE drives are currently $69 at Frys.
> 3-year warranty.

Small drive, high price and poor warranty.;-)

Seriously, I get 250 GB Seagates with 5 year warranties locally for about
the same price.

[Arny Krueger]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message

> On Dec 8, 7:15 am, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
>> The old hard drive in that Win2K system wasn't the
>> problem, because I reused it. BTW, it was a RAID array.
>> It was just fine as pieces of hardware go. My evaluation
>> was that it was as good as the day it was first loaded
>> with Win2K. Software can make a difference.

> In this case, the drive was wearing out.

Shift to present tense would be highly recommented. It is shot.

> Every way I could test it, it had bad sectors. I started with FDISK,
> then formatted it, and it was usable but with a lot of
> bad sectors marked. I figure that once a disk gets to
> that point, more bad sectors will be coming and it's
> better off being a paperweight.

Agreed.

There is also a form of degradation I see more and more, where there are no
bad sectors, but the hard drive is simply egregiously slow.

[Scott Dorsey]

Peter Larsen > wrote:
>
>Luddites of the World Unite! ... all power to the Luddites! ... on a similar
>note, Luddism that is, it might be an idea to make a 45 rpm frequency
>response calibration disk for those that transfer vinyl .... takes the
>guesswork out of calibration, and it would be surviveable to mail
>distribute. Just an idea, dunno if the market is there, but if the vinyl
>"things" sites would like to you perhaps a business idea worth looking in
>to?

It's actually very hard to make a good calibration disc.

You can use the current Shure S16 test record at 33 rpm. The only calibration
that is speed sensitive is the actual speed itself, and that's something
you can measure directly with a strobe disc. So align at 33 rpm, then
change the motor speed and calibrate the speed with the disc.

The AES Committee on Transfer Technologies just recently managed to reissue
the 78 rpm wide-groove test record from EMI this past fall. They are selling
them for $80 a pop, which considering the collapse of the dollar and the
general inflation comes to about what they were selling for in the fifties
when they were new.

You can ask them about 45 rpm disks, but I think since there are still a
couple good 33 rpm test records available than the demand will not be there.

The current Shure test disc was originally cut by Don Grossinger on the
DMM lathe at Europadisc. He had to do a few of the tracks at half-speed
too... the square waves on that disc are beautiful and a lot better than
I could get out of my lathe even at half speed.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message . ..
> "Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
>
> > On Dec 8, 7:15 am, "Arny Krueger" >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> The old hard drive in that Win2K system wasn't the
> >> problem, because I reused it. BTW, it was a RAID array.
> >> It was just fine as pieces of hardware go. My evaluation
> >> was that it was as good as the day it was first loaded
> >> with Win2K. Software can make a difference.
>
> > In this case, the drive was wearing out.
>
> Shift to present tense would be highly recommented. It is shot.
>
> > Every way I could test it, it had bad sectors. I started with FDISK,
> > then formatted it, and it was usable but with a lot of
> > bad sectors marked. I figure that once a disk gets to
> > that point, more bad sectors will be coming and it's
> > better off being a paperweight.
>
> Agreed.
>
> There is also a form of degradation I see more and more, where there are no
> bad sectors, but the hard drive is simply egregiously slow.


That's called a screwed registry. ;-)

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message ...
> On Dec 12, 3:42 am, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)" /Odm>
> wrote:
>
> > I sorta' wish I still had my TRS-80 and cassette tape drive. ;-) I guess that I
> > hadn't grown up enough to respect 'cool old ****' when I tossed that one.
>
> I have a Commodore VIC-20 with cassette drive that I can send you. I
> used to think that it might get valuable to some idiot eBay-fueled
> collector, but slide rules seem to go for more money these days.

Hang onto it for the idiot ebayer..... I dan't like waiting 5 minutes for my
"Pong" game to load from the cassette drive. ;-)

[Arny Krueger]

"David Morgan (MAMS)" /Odm> wrote in
message news:ZuZ7j.17239$k22.2974@trnddc02
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> "Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
>>
>>> On Dec 8, 7:15 am, "Arny Krueger" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The old hard drive in that Win2K system wasn't the
>>>> problem, because I reused it. BTW, it was a RAID array.
>>>> It was just fine as pieces of hardware go. My
>>>> evaluation was that it was as good as the day it was
>>>> first loaded with Win2K. Software can make a
>>>> difference.
>>
>>> In this case, the drive was wearing out.
>>
>> Shift to present tense would be highly recommented. It
>> is shot.
>>
>>> Every way I could test it, it had bad sectors. I
>>> started with FDISK, then formatted it, and it was
>>> usable but with a lot of
>>> bad sectors marked. I figure that once a disk gets to
>>> that point, more bad sectors will be coming and it's
>>> better off being a paperweight.
>>
>> Agreed.
>>
>> There is also a form of degradation I see more and more,
>> where there are no bad sectors, but the hard drive is
>> simply egregiously slow.

> That's called a screwed registry. ;-)

OK, a joke.

But in the case I'm talking about, even a freshly-loaded XP system is
excruciatingly slow. Even loading it is excruciatingly slow.

[Peter Larsen[_2_]]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

> Peter Larsen > wrote:

>> Luddites of the World Unite! ... all power to the Luddites! ... on a
>> similar note, Luddism that is, it might be an idea to make a 45 rpm
>> frequency response calibration disk for those that transfer vinyl
>> .... takes the guesswork out of calibration, and it would be
>> surviveable to mail distribute. Just an idea, dunno if the market is
>> there, but if the vinyl "things" sites would like to you perhaps a
>> business idea worth looking in to?

> It's actually very hard to make a good calibration disc.

> You can use the current Shure S16 test record at 33 rpm. The only
> calibration that is speed sensitive is the actual speed itself, and
> that's something
> you can measure directly with a strobe disc. So align at 33 rpm, then
> change the motor speed and calibrate the speed with the disc.

OK, then make a 33 rpm disk in single size for frequency response
calibration, one that is "good enough" to get a cartridge from a 5 dB
tolerance zone to a 2 dB tolerance zone.

> The AES Committee on Transfer Technologies just recently managed to
> reissue the 78 rpm wide-groove test record from EMI this past fall.
> They are selling them for $80 a pop, which considering the collapse
> of the dollar and the general inflation comes to about what they were
> selling for in the fifties when they were new.

Hmmmm .....

> You can ask them about 45 rpm disks, but I think since there are
> still a couple good 33 rpm test records available than the demand
> will not be there.

Scott, I wasn't thinking about lab quality records that are made for exact
measurements, I was thinking of something that could be the radio shack
meter of the test records, "good enough" and of a convenient size to ship
cheaply and retail via mailorder only.

> The current Shure test disc was originally cut by Don Grossinger on
> the
> DMM lathe at Europadisc. He had to do a few of the tracks at
> half-speed too... the square waves on that disc are beautiful and a
> lot better than
> I could get out of my lathe even at half speed.

OK, OK, OK ... I get the drift, specmanship could make me go for it. There
is some merit to using a 12 inch disk. But what will do well for most home
transfers is a single sized disk with a 20-20 stereo sweep on each side,
from a geometry viewpoint the placement of it will be reasonable. You know a
lot more than I do, it may be a wild herring, or it may be a viable business
idea for you in collaboration with the vinyl transfer websites .... use idea
free of charge or disregard as you see fit. It might even be an idea to get
one included with each grammophone sold by some vendor or manufacturer ....
there are many riaa-amps out there, but also many variations between them,
so the only real solution is to verify and possibly compensate after
digitizing.

> --scott


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Max Arwood]

I might interested if you have Cosmic Cruncher for it?
<g>
Max Arwood

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
...
> On Dec 12, 3:42 am, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)" /Odm>
> wrote:
>
>> I sorta' wish I still had my TRS-80 and cassette tape drive. ;-) I
>> guess that I
>> hadn't grown up enough to respect 'cool old ****' when I tossed that one.
>
> I have a Commodore VIC-20 with cassette drive that I can send you. I
> used to think that it might get valuable to some idiot eBay-fueled
> collector, but slide rules seem to go for more money these days.
>