What's the best amplification setup for my speakers?

[Bassplayer12]

Greetings folks

I'd like to have some opinions.
I have a pair of JBL XPL-200's: 6ohms, 91db. Recommended power, minimum
200W, peaks of 800W.
Presently, I have a Denon DRA-685 receiver driving the highs and mids and a
Denon POA-2200 200W power amp for the bottom.
Crossover: JBL pro.
The present setup made a difference from before when the POA-2200 was doing
the entire job by itself.
I just recently purchased a used Bryston 4B (approx 20 year old but
excellent condition).
Is the 4B enough to drive both speakers by itself or should I substitute it
for the Denon power amp and keep the rest of the setup as it is?
Or should I use the 4B for the bottom and the Denon power amp for the highs
and mids?
Or get another 4B and use them in mono mode?
Wait a minute. My budget is not illimited.

Thanks in advance for your input.
JP

[MINe109]

On Dec 4, 6:47 pm, "Bassplayer12" > wrote:
> Greetings folks
>
> I'd like to have some opinions.
> I have a pair of JBL XPL-200's: 6ohms, 91db. Recommended power, minimum
> 200W, peaks of 800W.
> Presently, I have a Denon DRA-685 receiver driving the highs and mids and a
> Denon POA-2200 200W power amp for the bottom.
> Crossover: JBL pro.
> The present setup made a difference from before when the POA-2200 was doing
> the entire job by itself.
> I just recently purchased a used Bryston 4B (approx 20 year old but
> excellent condition).
> Is the 4B enough to drive both speakers by itself or should I substitute it
> for the Denon power amp and keep the rest of the setup as it is?
> Or should I use the 4B for the bottom and the Denon power amp for the highs
> and mids?
> Or get another 4B and use them in mono mode?
> Wait a minute. My budget is not illimited.

The brochure shows 90 dB sensitivity for the JBLs. I'd try the Bryston
(250 watts?) by itself.

It could be that lightening the load on the receiver may be the big
part of the improvement you hear, so a slightly higher-powered bass
amp wouldn't make a big difference.

Try 'em both!

Stephen

[Arny Krueger]

"Bassplayer12" > wrote in message

> Greetings folks
>
> I'd like to have some opinions.

> I have a pair of JBL XPL-200's: 6ohms, 91db. Recommended
> power, minimum 200W, peaks of 800W.

Large, nearly full-range fairly efficient home speakers.

It is my opinion that you either have a large dead room or like things loud.
;-)

http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Owner%27s%20Manual/XPL200om.pdf

Common feature - separate input terminals for low and high ranges.

Notable feature - there is a switch that effectively rewires the speaker
internally so that it can be used in a bi-wired configuration or a
bi-amplified configuraion. The former leaves the crossover fully in play,
but with its inputs and outputs split between low and high frequenceis. The
latter causes the input terminals to bypass some of the crossover's
components so that externally, the speaker is a 2-way speaker suitable for
bi-amplfication.


> Presently, I have a Denon DRA-685 receiver driving the

100 wpc

> highs and mids and a Denon POA-2200 200W power amp for
> the bottom.


> Crossover: JBL pro.

Which one?

The JBL DX-1 mentioned in the owner's manual?

This seems to be a mystery product. The search facility at both the
consumer and pro sites can't seem to find it.

> The present setup made a difference from before when the
> POA-2200 was doing the entire job by itself.

And the difference was?

Being a cynic, I would presume that switching a speaker from using its
internal crossovers to the use of an external crossover with a lot of user
adjustments and randomly-chosen amplifiers would produce audible incidental
frequency response changes. There would be some increase in dynamic range,
but this might be far less noticable than the incidental frequency response
changes.

On balance, if you tuned the crossover so that the system sounded better to
you, it is possible that you would have used the extra adjustments to better
tailor the speakers to the room, other components in the system, your
favorite music sources and your general sonic tastes.

> I just recently purchased a used Bryston 4B (approx 20
> year old but excellent condition).

Nominally, 250 wpc.

> Is the 4B enough to drive both speakers by itself or
> should I substitute it for the Denon power amp and keep
> the rest of the setup as it is?

Replacing the POA-2200 with the 4B and Bypassing the amplfiiers in the
receiver with the POA-2200 seems to be the more logical choice.

This will produce a gain in available dynamic range on the order of 3 dB,
which is not huge.

Page 6 of the manual suggests that the receiver was more than adequate, and
that your current configuration is a more optimal use of resources.

Looking at the overall situation, the more optimal choice would be leave the
receiver and POA-2200 connected to the speaker as they are, and use the 4B
to drive your new subwoofer. The XPL-200 is speced to be 6 dB down at 35
Hz, so a substantial subwoofer could yield major improvements in sound
quality.

driver of choice fi car audio q18 - www.ficaraudio.com

That's what I would do, given the equipment on hand.

[Bassplayer12]

"MINe109" > wrote in message
...
> On Dec 4, 6:47 pm, "Bassplayer12" > wrote:
>> Greetings folks
>>
>> I'd like to have some opinions.
>> I have a pair of JBL XPL-200's: 6ohms, 91db. Recommended power, minimum
>> 200W, peaks of 800W.
>> Presently, I have a Denon DRA-685 receiver driving the highs and mids and
>> a
>> Denon POA-2200 200W power amp for the bottom.
>> Crossover: JBL pro.
>> The present setup made a difference from before when the POA-2200 was
>> doing
>> the entire job by itself.
>> I just recently purchased a used Bryston 4B (approx 20 year old but
>> excellent condition).
>> Is the 4B enough to drive both speakers by itself or should I substitute
>> it
>> for the Denon power amp and keep the rest of the setup as it is?
>> Or should I use the 4B for the bottom and the Denon power amp for the
>> highs
>> and mids?
>> Or get another 4B and use them in mono mode?
>> Wait a minute. My budget is not illimited.
>
> The brochure shows 90 dB sensitivity for the JBLs. I'd try the Bryston
> (250 watts?) by itself.

Indeed 90. Typo.

> It could be that lightening the load on the receiver may be the big
> part of the improvement you hear, so a slightly higher-powered bass
> amp wouldn't make a big difference.

Actually, since the POA-2200 drives only the low end now, that is where the
biggest improvement
took place.

> Try 'em both!
>
> Stephen

[Bassplayer12]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
> "Bassplayer12" > wrote in message
>
>> Greetings folks
>>
>> I'd like to have some opinions.
>
>> I have a pair of JBL XPL-200's: 6ohms, 91db. Recommended
>> power, minimum 200W, peaks of 800W.
>
> Large, nearly full-range fairly efficient home speakers.

Actually they are 90db. Sorry.
Reviews can be found here: http://tinyurl.com/2n64nr

> It is my opinion that you either have a large dead room or like things
> loud. ;-)

Actually, there are improvements I could do to the room. I do have standing
waves and there is
a heating system register behind one of the speakers. And there isn't a
thing I can do about it.
I think, anyway.

> http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Owner%27s%20Manual/XPL200om.pdf

I already have 2 of the printed version.

> Common feature - separate input terminals for low and high ranges.
>
> Notable feature - there is a switch that effectively rewires the speaker
> internally so that it can be used in a bi-wired configuration or a

I tried that a few years ago.

> bi-amplified configuraion. The former leaves the crossover fully in play,
> but with its inputs and outputs split between low and high frequenceis.
> The latter causes the input terminals to bypass some of the crossover's
> components so that externally, the speaker is a 2-way speaker suitable for
> bi-amplfication.
>
>
>> Presently, I have a Denon DRA-685 receiver driving the
>
> 100 wpc
>
>> highs and mids and a Denon POA-2200 200W power amp for
>> the bottom.
>
>
>> Crossover: JBL pro.
>
> Which one?
>
> The JBL DX-1 mentioned in the owner's manual?

Of course not. It is so rare and $$$. I have a professionnal Model 5234.
It seems to be doing the job.

> This seems to be a mystery product. The search facility at both the
> consumer and pro sites can't seem to find it.
>
>> The present setup made a difference from before when the
>> POA-2200 was doing the entire job by itself.
>
> And the difference was?

The low end, man. The low end! Quite a bit more with the bi-amp
configuration
than with only the POA-2200.

> Being a cynic, I would presume that switching a speaker from using its
> internal crossovers to the use of an external crossover with a lot of user
> adjustments and randomly-chosen amplifiers would produce audible
> incidental frequency response changes. There would be some increase in
> dynamic range, but this might be far less noticable than the incidental
> frequency response changes.
>
> On balance, if you tuned the crossover so that the system sounded better
> to you, it is possible that you would have used the extra adjustments to
> better tailor the speakers to the room, other components in the system,
> your favorite music sources and your general sonic tastes.

Actually, there aren't much in terms of adjustments on the crossover.
This being said, I am using a Yamaya EQ, model Q2031.

>> I just recently purchased a used Bryston 4B (approx 20
>> year old but excellent condition).
>
> Nominally, 250 wpc.

With 6 ohms speakers, how much power would that be? Any idea?

>> Is the 4B enough to drive both speakers by itself or
>> should I substitute it for the Denon power amp and keep
>> the rest of the setup as it is?
>
> Replacing the POA-2200 with the 4B and Bypassing the amplfiiers in the
> receiver with the POA-2200 seems to be the more logical choice.

If the power of the receiver is enough for the mids and highs, I could sell
the POA-2200
and the pre-amp that came with it and that would help pay for the 4B. That's
what I'm looking
at. I would venture to say that the POA-2200 is a little bit of an overkill
to drive the highs and lows.
Your opinion on this?

> This will produce a gain in available dynamic range on the order of 3 dB,
> which is not huge.
>
> Page 6 of the manual suggests that the receiver was more than adequate,
> and that your current configuration is a more optimal use of resources.
>
> Looking at the overall situation, the more optimal choice would be leave
> the receiver and POA-2200 connected to the speaker as they are, and use
> the 4B to drive your new subwoofer. The XPL-200 is speced to be 6 dB down
> at 35 Hz, so a substantial subwoofer could yield major improvements in
> sound quality.

The JBL's don't produce enough good bass response?

> driver of choice fi car audio q18 - www.ficaraudio.com
>
> That's what I would do, given the equipment on hand.

Thanks for your input.

[Bassplayer12]

"MiNe 109" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Bassplayer12" > wrote:
>
>> "MINe109" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > On Dec 4, 6:47 pm, "Bassplayer12" > wrote:
>> >> Greetings folks
>> >>
>> >> I'd like to have some opinions.
>> >> I have a pair of JBL XPL-200's: 6ohms, 91db. Recommended power,
>> >> minimum
>> >> 200W, peaks of 800W.
>> >> Presently, I have a Denon DRA-685 receiver driving the highs and mids
>> >> and
>> >> a
>> >> Denon POA-2200 200W power amp for the bottom.
>> >> Crossover: JBL pro.
>> >> The present setup made a difference from before when the POA-2200 was
>> >> doing
>> >> the entire job by itself.
>> >> I just recently purchased a used Bryston 4B (approx 20 year old but
>> >> excellent condition).
>> >> Is the 4B enough to drive both speakers by itself or should I
>> >> substitute
>> >> it
>> >> for the Denon power amp and keep the rest of the setup as it is?
>> >> Or should I use the 4B for the bottom and the Denon power amp for the
>> >> highs
>> >> and mids?
>> >> Or get another 4B and use them in mono mode?
>> >> Wait a minute. My budget is not illimited.
>> >
>> > The brochure shows 90 dB sensitivity for the JBLs. I'd try the Bryston
>> > (250 watts?) by itself.
>>
>> Indeed 90. Typo.
>>
>> > It could be that lightening the load on the receiver may be the big
>> > part of the improvement you hear, so a slightly higher-powered bass
>> > amp wouldn't make a big difference.
>>
>> Actually, since the POA-2200 drives only the low end now, that is where
>> the
>> biggest improvement
>> took place.
>
> Sorry, I wasn't clear! I meant adding the second amp for bass lessened
> the demand on the receiver. A slightly better bass amp replacement might
> not be as much of an additional improvement.
>
> Your crossover is probably adjustable enough to try both power amps
> using the receiver as a preamp. My bedroom system has a similar
> configuration.

Oh my gosh. I would hesitate to ask you what you have in your living or
listening room. LOL

> The subwoofer suggestion makes sense in the future, but you might be
> okay with acceptable but not ultra deep bass. I am!
>
> Stephen

[Arny Krueger]

"Bassplayer12" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> "Bassplayer12" > wrote in message
>>
>>> Greetings folks
>>>
>>> I'd like to have some opinions.
>>
>>> I have a pair of JBL XPL-200's: 6ohms, 91db. Recommended
>>> power, minimum 200W, peaks of 800W.
>>
>> Large, nearly full-range fairly efficient home speakers.
>
> Actually they are 90db. Sorry.

90 dB is fairly efficient. 82 dB is low efficiency. 98 dB is high efficiency

> Reviews can be found here: http://tinyurl.com/2n64nr


>> http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Owner%27s%20Manual/XPL200om.pdf

> I already have 2 of the printed version.

I posted it like it was a footnote.

>>> Presently, I have a Denon DRA-685 receiver driving the
>>
>> 100 wpc
>>
>>> highs and mids and a Denon POA-2200 200W power amp for
>>> the bottom.
>>
>>
>>> Crossover: JBL pro.
>>
>> Which one?

> I have a
> professionnal Model 5234. It seems to be doing the job.

Pretty inflexible, given you have to use a different plug-in module to
change the crossover frequency, and the relatively low slopes.

>>> The present setup made a difference from before when the
>>> POA-2200 was doing the entire job by itself.
>>
>> And the difference was?

> The low end, man. The low end! Quite a bit more with the
> bi-amp configuration
> than with only the POA-2200.

That could be due to the differences in the crossovers.

>> Being a cynic, I would presume that switching a speaker
>> from using its internal crossovers to the use of an
>> external crossover with a lot of user adjustments and
>> randomly-chosen amplifiers would produce audible
>> incidental frequency response changes. There would be
>> some increase in dynamic range, but this might be far
>> less noticable than the incidental frequency response
>> changes. On balance, if you tuned the crossover so that the
>> system sounded better to you, it is possible that you
>> would have used the extra adjustments to better tailor
>> the speakers to the room, other components in the
>> system, your favorite music sources and your general
>> sonic tastes.

> Actually, there aren't much in terms of adjustments on
> the crossover.

Agreed.

> This being said, I am using a Yamaya EQ, model Q2031.

Seems nice.

>>> I just recently purchased a used Bryston 4B (approx 20
>>> year old but excellent condition).

>> Nominally, 250 wpc.

> With 6 ohms speakers, how much power would that be? Any idea?

That isn't speced and can only be estimated. I'd estimate that the power
output of the two amps under real world conditions would track each other.

>>> Is the 4B enough to drive both speakers by itself or
>>> should I substitute it for the Denon power amp and keep
>>> the rest of the setup as it is?

>> Replacing the POA-2200 with the 4B and Bypassing the
>> amplfiiers in the receiver with the POA-2200 seems to be
>> the more logical choice.

> If the power of the receiver is enough for the mids and
> highs, I could sell the POA-2200
> and the pre-amp that came with it and that would help pay
> for the 4B. That's what I'm looking
> at.

Not a bad idea. Yes, the receiver has more than enough rated power to do
its share, which is smaller than that of the others by quite a bit.

> I would venture to say that the POA-2200 is a little
> bit of an overkill to drive the highs and lows.
> Your opinion on this?


The POA 2200 is overkill for the highs and pretty light for the lows, given
the sort of amp you have driving the highs. The high frequency amp only
needs to have 1/4 the power of the low frequency amp according to JBL .

>> This will produce a gain in available dynamic range on
>> the order of 3 dB, which is not huge.
>>
>> Page 6 of the manual suggests that the receiver was more
>> than adequate, and that your current configuration is a
>> more optimal use of resources.

>> Looking at the overall situation, the more optimal
>> choice would be leave the receiver and POA-2200
>> connected to the speaker as they are, and use the 4B to
>> drive your new subwoofer. The XPL-200 is speced to be 6
>> dB down at 35 Hz, so a substantial subwoofer could yield
>> major improvements in sound quality.

> The JBL's don't produce enough good bass response?

They don't compare to what you'd get with a good subwoofer added on.

>> driver of choice fi car audio q18 - www.ficaraudio.com

>> That's what I would do, given the equipment on hand.

> Thanks for your input.